Advice needed on DIM/Indoplex & Chrysin

[Guest guest]

After taking arimidex, femara, and another AI whose name slips me right now, i

have come to the conclusion that i cant take these AI's as they are too strong.

If I take them, my E2 drops below 20 and has got as low as 6, but as I have not

been taking anything in the past months, my E2 is back up in the 46 +/- range.

Some of the board/group members have had good results with DIM/Indoplex, but my

doctor wants me to use Chrysin.

Which natural AI, seems to work best for the rest of the group members and where

can I purchase the good legit quality natural AI products?

Thanks

SB

[Guest guest]

I was in a similar situation. Unmedicated, my E2 was about 48, but I am very

sensitive to Arimidex, so I always went too low. What I ended up doing was

ordering some generic arimidex (anastrozole) in liquid form, and further

diluting it down, so that I'm now spreading 1 mg over about a year. And my E2

is in the low-to-mid 20's. I use a 1 ml oral syringe for dosing.

Of course generic anastrozole really means the illegal unregulated stuff you get

from the outfits that supply body builders, but that stuff does work and appears

to be equivalent to the brand name.

Of course your doctor won't approve of that, but perhaps he could persuade a

compounding pharmacy to make up the equivalent liquid using the real stuff.

In liquid form, it comes at 1mg per ml. I dilute that down 32X with distilled

water and vodka so that it's 1mg per 32 ml. Then I take .09 ml of that per day.

So the daily dose is .09/32 = .0028125 mg per day, or 1/356 mg per day. Try

splitting pills that way. :-)

I never did any good on DIM, and never tried chrysin, but this liquid

anastrozole has worked well for me. Of course you still need to test regularly.

I would strongly suggest you talk to your doc about getting a compounding

pharmacy to make up the liquid for you. That's what they're for.

Actually, you could even try dissolving a 1mg tablet in water or vodka and make

your own liquid.

I get the syringes from a farm store for about $.60 each, but Amazon carries

them too. You can rinse one out and reuse it, so I only use a couple a month.

You would think that since there are now probably more men taking this stuff

than women, the drug companies would start providing something besides 1 mg

tablets. But no. Oh well.

Anyway, hope this helps.

>

> After taking arimidex, femara, and another AI whose name slips me right now, i

have come to the conclusion that i cant take these AI's as they are too strong.

If I take them, my E2 drops below 20 and has got as low as 6, but as I have not

been taking anything in the past months, my E2 is back up in the 46 +/- range.

>

> Some of the board/group members have had good results with DIM/Indoplex, but

my doctor wants me to use Chrysin.

>

> Which natural AI, seems to work best for the rest of the group members and

where can I purchase the good legit quality natural AI products?

>

> Thanks

>

> SB

>

[Guest guest]

You can try Chrysin but for me it did nothing on Arimidex how much did you take

at a time. Most men only need .25 mgs or 1/4 of a pill every 3 days some men

only need it every 5 days. Have you read what I post about not going to low on

this.

===================================================

How To Take Arimdex and not go down on your Estradiol to Low.

What I found is if you go to low taking arimidex, it's the length of time your

to low, if your too low say for 8 weeks it can take your body a longer time to

make more Estradiol. Bottom line is to know how not to go to low. Keep a log on

your dose and how you feel men going to low can't get it up taking Viagra. I

went to low when I first tried Arimidex and did not know about going to low or

how one feels to low, so I was low a good 8 weeks. I did not know I was low

until my next labs.

The best gage I have found to control your Estradiol levels is to gage your

night time and morning wood. At good levels or what I call the sweet spot you

get your night time and morning wood back so strong it will wake you up and you

can hang a coat on it.

Most men do good taking .25 mgs or 1/4 of a 1mg. pill, I use a pill cutter to

cut the small pill in half then I stand it on the cut end and use a single edge

razor to cut this in half. A good way to take arimidex is by how high your

levels are. I tested over 90 pg/ml so we tried doing .5 mgs every other day

after 8 weeks my next set of labs showed it did not move below 90, test said

>90. So we did .5 mgs. every day in about 2 weeks I got some strong night time

and morning wood back after not having them for many yrs.

I kept doing this dose and in 8 weeks my next set of labs said <20 back in the

day labs were like this they did not have to good labs we have today they could

not read lower the 20. My Dr. told me this looks to low to stop taking the

Arimidex. The one thing I noticed was my wood stopped and stopping the Arimidex

my wood came back in about 7 weeks my next test at 8 weeks was 24 pg/ml. So we

went back on the Arimidex but the Dr. told me to take .5 mgs every 3 days I was

on this dose not a week and lost wood. This is when I figured out going to low

you lose wood. And the longer your too low the longer it takes to get levels

back up.

I stopped the arimidex right away and got my wood back in 4 days. I then after

playing with the dose for a time found the best dose is .25mgs every 2 to 3

days.

So lets say your labs are less the 50 pg/ml if your take .5 mgs you can go down

so dam fast your miss the sweet spot of your wood and go to low. It's best with

lower levels 50 and under to do less Arimidex .25mgs every 2 days if later your

lose wood when it comes back go to every 3 days.

I have found estradiol is the hardest hormone to control, it goes up or down

from month to month some times I need .25mgs every 2 days other times I need

..25mgs everyday most of the time I do well on every 3 days.

So between wood and labs I do great and so do most of the men I have told this

to. I keep a log on how much I am taking and how I feel. Doing this and reading

back in my log I was able to tell when I was going to high or to low my Dr. lets

me dose my arimidex by how I feel.

Over the yrs. I have posted this story until I am blue in the face.

---------------------------------------------------

I have this about DIM Indolplex is the best Chrysin gets killed in your stomach.

====================================================

ALL ABOUT DIM.

Sure here is a few links that are all about it. But there are a lot of Co.'s

out there selling DIM that don't work well. Indolplex/DIM is the best it dose

not get killed in your stomach when you take it.

Diindolylmethane (DIM) is a stable indole found in cruciferous vegetables which

promotes a beneficial estrogen metabolism in both women and men.

http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm

in this link it's full of links about it.

http://qualitycounts.com/fpdim.html

http://www.jbc.org/content/278/23/21136.full

If you have DIM in caps it's not Indolplex so to take this and to get it to work

open the cap pore the DIM into a spoon add some Olive oil and take it this helps

to keep it from getting killed in your stomach.

The following is some links to where you can buy Indolplex/DIM.

http://www.vitaglo.com/e5336.html

http://www.vitacost.com/EnzymaticTherapyEstroBalancewithDIM/searchby-PN/searchte\

xt-dim

http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0

http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0

http://www.estrobalance.net/

http://www.easyhealthzone.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=PP0108 & click=71

http://www.nbizz.com/longevityclinic/listings/213.html

http://www.drugnatural.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD & Store_Code=DMOS & Product_\

Code=156497

http://www.smartbomb.com/itindo9.html?utm_source=mercent & utm_medium=shopcompare & \

utm_content=itindo9 & utm_campaign=mbsdb & mr:trackingCode=C6AEFBD1-E681-DE11-B7F3-0\

019B9C043EB & mr:referralID=NA

http://www.ritecare.com/cgi-bin/cart.pl?db=product_db.dat & category=natural+medic\

ine & method=any_words & search=iti-75336

http://www.naturamart.com/phytopharmica-pms-formula-with-indoplex-120-caps.html

How to take Indolplex/DIM take one tablet 120 mgs at dinner time it can take 2

weeks to 2 months to get your Estradiol levels down it’s all about how high

you are in your levels. What you need to do is get this down to about 20 pg/ml.

When you get this low your night time and morning wood will come back so strong

it will wake you up this means most of the time your at your best levels or what

I call the sweet spot. Keep taking the DIM but if your wood stops your going

down to low so just stop taking it. The day your wood comes back go back on

the DIM but cut the tablet in half. If your Testosterone was tested and low but

your not on TRT get it tested again you might find your levels came up some 200

to 300 points.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174

----------------------------------------------------

Or of Arimidex is to strong do this.

====================================================

Most compounding pharmacies will require a prescription from a doctor, before

they do this.

Once your prescription says " 300 caps x 0.1mg " or " 600 caps x 0.05mg "

anastrozole " from 1 to 4 daily " , (anastrozole = generic arimidex) then they will

compound your arimidex, or generic anastrozole, and they will usually supply the

arimidex as compounded into the caps you require.

My compounding pharmacist was prepared to allow me to supply the arimidex too.

If you have several boxes of arimidex in your cupboard, then you may want to ask

your pharmacist to do this for you.

If you don't have any arimidex stores, then just let the compounding pharmacy

supply the whole lot.

###

A pack of 30 tabs of 1.0mg arimidex will give 300 caps at 0.1mg-per-cap, or 600

caps at 0.05mg-per-cap.

So if your pharmacy chooses to supply arimidex as opposed to generic

anastrozole, then your pharmacy will most likely not agree to only charge you

for a half-a-box of arimidex, and most likely they'll charge for a whole box,

even if your prescription says 300 caps at 0.05mg-per-cap (total of 15mg).

----------------------------------------------------

Or try to balance your dose of TRT so you don't make so much Estradio.

===================================================

E2 Sweet Spot by Chilln at Dr. ’s forum.

continued from post #8 in this thread, ie:

http://musclechatroom.com/forum/show...14 & postcount=8

PLAN A:

The healthiest method of optimizing E2 levels is to simply minimize your T

boost, to the point which is " just above " your minimum acceptable level of

damage tolerance.

###

* If you exercise very hard, you're going to need a lot more T than if you

exercise very little.

* Reducing your T boosters will reduce both your maximum T levels, and your

minimum T levels. This works if you metabolize T relatively slowly, in which

case your minimum T levels will not be too low.

* But if you metabolize T very quickly, then you may find that this method lets

your minimum T levels drop too low.

* As you and your medical professional adviser gradually lower your maximum T

levels, your E2 levels will also reduce, and hopefully you will find a balance

between T and E2 which suits your sexual performance goals.

* If you discover that by using this method, you can occasionally experience

optimum sexual performance, then your ability to maintain that for extended

periods is dependant on how stable your E2 levels are, and the stability of your

E2 levels depends on minimizing your maximum T levels, and ensuring your minimum

T levels are still adequate (no sore joints, no sore back, no stiff neck, don't

catch flu quickly).

* Keep gradually reducing your maximum T levels, looking for your E2 sweet spot,

until eventually your minimum T levels are too low during the day / week (ie:

sore joints, or sore back, or you catch a flu quickly).

###

If you haven't experienced a sweet spot for your E2 usign this method, then you

need to consider PLAN B.

PLAN B:

Always attempt PLAN B if PLAN A fails to deliver the goods. Don't skip PLAN B.

For those who supplement using transdermal T, reduce your maximum daily T levels

by taking less-than-half-of-your-existing-daily-dosage-of-T, twice per day.

For those who supplement using injected T ester (eg: T cypionate), reduce your

maximum weekly T levels by either:

a) taking less-than-half-of-your-existing-weekly-dosage-of-T, twice-per-week,

or

taking less-than-3/7-of-your-existing-weekly-dosage-of-T, once-every-3-days.

###

* This will definitely reduce your peak T levels, while still ensuring that your

minimum T levels do not drop.

* The additional reduction in max T levels, without reducing your minimum T

levels, will further allow your E2 levels to reduce, and hopefully that's enough

to find your E2 sweet spot.

* The equivalent mechanism for those who supplement using injected T esters (eg:

testosterone cypionate) is to take

less-than-half-of-your-existing-weekly-dosage-of-T, twice per week, or

less-than-3/7-of-your-existing-weekly-dosage-of-T, every 3 days.

* As you and your medical professional adviser gradually lower your maximum T

levels, your E2 levels will also reduce, and hopefully you will find a balance

between T and E2 which suits your sexual performance goals.

* If you discover that by using this method, you can occasionally experience

optimum sexual performance, then your ability to maintain that for extended

periods is dependant on how stable your E2 levels are, and the stability of your

E2 levels depends on your maximum T levels (not your minimum T levels).

###

But you may discover that you still cannot find a sweet spot for both T and E2

using just this method. In which case consider PLAN C.

PLAN C: ( OPTIONAL)

This option is only available if you initially started out on a transdermal

formulation of T.

Switch from using a transdermal formulation of T to using an injected form of T

ester - eg: " T cyp " (testosterone cypionate).

Initially try once-per-week dosing, but switch to twice-per-week, or

once-every-3-days dosing if you need to lower E2 levels even further.

###

* Our body makes E2 out of T, using the " aromatase " enzyme, and we have high

concentrations of aromatase enzymes in our subcutaneous body fat.

* The transdermal forumations of T convert into more E2 and DHT than the

injected T esters, because the transdermal formulations place the T in close

proximity to the large concentration of aromatase enzymes in our body fat, while

the injected T esters are designed for intra-muscular injection (not

subcutanoues) and therefore the T is placed a long long way from those aromate

enzymes in our body fat.

* After switching from transdermal T to injected T esters, your E2 levels should

also reduce, and hopefully you will find a balance between T and E2 which suits

your sexual performance goals, but the stability of your E2 levels still depends

on your maximum T levels (not your minimum T levels).

* Initially try once-per-week dosing as discussed in PLAN B for T cyp users.

* If using once-per-week dosing continues to result in too high maximum levels

of T, while you are trying to ensure that your minimum T throughout the week is

still above your minimum requirements for T, then you will need to add back the

PLAN B multiple-times-per-week dosing - even for T cyp.

###

But you may discover that you still cannot find a sweet spot for both T and E2

using just this method. In which case consider PLAN D.

PLAN D:

This alternative is to adjust both your T and HCG dosages, and use arimidex /

anastrozole to optimize E2.

But you should still be implementing the multiple-times-per-day dosing

methodology from PLAN B and the final stage of PLAN C

###

* This is not a trivial concept. You will be messing with T and E2 levels for

months.

* The most important concept with arimidex / anastrozole supplementtion is very

reliable and accurate dosing. I very strongly recommend that you and your

medical professional adviser adopt a more frequent dosing of arimidex /

anastrozole than once-every-two-days, ie: by adopting daily dosing of arimidex /

anastrozole, using small-but-reliable doses of compounded arimidex /

anastrozole.

....This is detailed here:

....http://musclechatroom.com/forum/show...6 & postcount=31

* You may find that you need 0.1mg per day, or 0.15mg per day, or 0.2mg per day,

instead of 0.5mg every second day.

* After adjusting arimidex dosages and T dosages, you will definitely discover

occasional optimum T versus E2 balance, and with that you will achieve

occasional optimum sexual performance. Whether you can maintain that optimum

sexual performance for the majority of each week is dependant on how stable your

E2 levels are, and the stability of your E2 levels depends on your maximum T

levels.

###

But you may discover that you still cannot find a sweet spot for both T and E2

using just this method. In which case consider PLAN E.

PLAN E:

Boost T even less than before, and boost GH to provide the additional damage

tolerance lost from the reduction in T levels.

But continue to maintain using the multiple-times-per-day dosing methodology

used in the final stages of the previous plans.

But back off the arimidex / anastrozole completely.

###

* Both T and GH trigger many of the same repairs (not 100% overlap) so you can

safely reduce T, if you boost GH.

* By further reducing your peak T levels, you further reduce the rate of

conversion of T into E2. This assumes you reduce your supplemental T dosage when

you add in the boost to GH.

* By further reducing your peak T levels, your T and E2 levels will be more

stable, and you'll find it easier to find your sweet spot for E2.

But you may discover that you still cannot find a sweet spot for both T and E2

using just this method. In which case consider PLAN F.

PLAN F

This is simply the combination of PLAN E (GH boost, multiple times-per-day/week

dosing) plus compounded arimidex / anastrozole.

###

* This should only be necessary if:

....a) you haven't been able to afford sufficient recombinant GH to allow you to

reduce your T levels by an adequate amount.

or

.... your can only afford GHRP-6, not recombinant GH, and your body's response

to the GHRP-6 is inadequate amounts of GH.

..

________________________________________

Last edited by chilln; 16 Hours Ago at 07:12 PM.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: <sbryant511@...>

> Subject: Advice needed on DIM/Indoplex & Chrysin

>

> Date: Sunday, May 23, 2010, 8:26 PM

> After taking arimidex, femara, and

> another AI whose name slips me right now, i have come to the

> conclusion that i cant take these AI's as they are too

> strong.  If I take them, my E2 drops below 20 and has

> got as low as 6, but as I have not been taking anything in

> the past months, my E2 is back up in the 46 +/- range.

>

> Some of the board/group members have had good results with

> DIM/Indoplex, but my doctor wants me to use Chrysin. 

>

> Which natural AI, seems to work best for the rest of the

> group members and where can I purchase the good legit

> quality natural AI products?

>

> Thanks

>

> SB   

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>