Re: Low Pulse Rate & Low Blood Volume

[Guest guest]

Pulse is very much controlled by thyroid, and you may just need to add some T3

to your dosage. Here's the tests you should get:

http://tiredthyroid.com/what-labs.html

Barb

>

> Hello Phil, Barb & All,

>

> Hope you are all doing good. All these days I was doing good with 50Mg TC

every 15days and once or twice in a month 250IU of HCG and 100 mcg of Synthroid.

> Now a days I am feeling some chest pain, palpitations and weekness. My brother

in law is a medical doctor but yet to get his licence. So checked and told me

that my heart sounds good but my pulse is low which shows a sign of low blood

volume. He asked me to take more fluids but I want to know if there is anything

else I have to keep in mind.

>

> I went to a cardiologist about 10 months ago and he told me that I am good. No

heart issues but I have thick blood with my Test Cyp replacement. I took

NattoKinase for about a couple of months and I was good at that time. So

stopped.

>

> The chest pain & pain in the left shoulder blade is still coming and going. No

doctor knows what is the problem. My cholestrol is normal but not optimum. But

at 39yrs old I think I am good. My BP is very good always. 110/65 something in

that range. My pulse is always in 60s or sometimes low 70s

>

> What do you think I have to do now? My anual labs are due this week. I will

know more about my bloodwork then.

>

> Any ideas or suggestions will help.

>

> Thanks

> Joe

>

[Guest guest]

Joe,

We don't do TRT or 50 mgs of Test C every 15 days this is nuts. You might as

well not be on it. The half life of HCG is very short so most of us do it 2x's

/ week.

As for your blood yes your need to drink more water and with a thyroid Problem

put some good Sea Salt on a glass of water first thing in the morning. Some

people feel better doing this we tend to have low sodium levels.

To keep your blood thinner drink more water and do about 3 glass's before doing

labs if your Dehydrated before your labs it will make your blood look thicker.

Also take some Krill OIL everyday this helps with many things it's full of Omaga

3's and 6's. One more thing you can do to keep your blood thinner is take

Garlic Tabs.

http://www.myvitanet.com/garlinase-4000-30-tab-enzymatic-therapy.html

And Baby Aspirin

Men that start on TRT start with shots 100 mgs / week if you have problems from

this dose and have thicker blood with a lot of converting into Estradiol try

doing your shots 2x's / week or every 3 days and do your HCG the day before

this.

Have you had your Cortisol levels checked some men have this problem and low

Aldosterone shows up with it this can give you low BP and make you feel the way

your feeling. I have this problem and need a med called Florinef and need to

add Sea Salt to my water all day long. Yet my blood is still think been like

this over 30 yrs. My body dumps my sodium. Test this if you have this you will

all ways be Dehydrated. We don't worry about my Blood labs due to this.

Also what are your Thyroid labs your on a very low dose of Synthroid I take 150

mcgs. with T3 5 mcgs 3x's/ day. You might need a little T3 added to your

Thyroid treatment.

Make sure when you do your labs you Test your Estraidol levels. I feel your

pain is not enough Testosterone and I am betting your very low. When you do

your labs do them the morning of your next shot but before it.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: inc_100 <no_reply >

> Subject: Low Pulse Rate & Low Blood Volume

>

> Date: Saturday, April 9, 2011, 9:23 PM

> Hello Phil, Barb & All,

>

> Hope you are all doing good. All these days I was doing

> good with 50Mg TC every 15days and once or twice in a month

> 250IU of HCG and 100 mcg of Synthroid.

> Now a days I am feeling some chest pain, palpitations and

> weekness. My brother in law is a medical doctor but yet to

> get his licence. So checked and told me that my heart sounds

> good but my pulse is low which shows a sign of low blood

> volume. He asked me to take more fluids but I want to know

> if there is anything else I have to keep in mind.

>

> I went to a cardiologist about 10 months ago and he told me

> that I am good. No heart issues but I have thick blood with

> my Test Cyp replacement. I took NattoKinase for about a

> couple of months and I was good at that time. So stopped.

>

> The chest pain & pain in the left shoulder blade is

> still coming and going. No doctor knows what is the problem.

> My cholestrol is normal but not optimum. But at 39yrs old I

> think I am good. My BP is very good always. 110/65 something

> in that range. My pulse is always in 60s or sometimes low

> 70s

>

> What do you think I have to do now? My anual labs are due

> this week. I will know more about my bloodwork then.

>

> Any ideas or suggestions will help.

>

> Thanks

> Joe

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Phil and Barb,

Thank you for your inputs.

Phil, I have been doing Test C this way almost 2 yrs and its working good for

me. My levels are around 700 something and I just leave it there. Very recently

I started 60mgs every 15days and its still good. I will be going for my labs

this week. Then I will see if I have to change the dose.

Yes. You have been telling me about the frequency and dosage of the shots but

for somereason I am doing good with this 15 day 50mg shots and even my estradiol

is also not high. The first couple of days of my shot I take DIM and then no

need of DIM untill my second shot.

My Thyroid labs are very old. I will be knowing my new labs and then I will post

them.

Thank you all.

Joe

>

> > From: inc_100 <no_reply >

> > Subject: Low Pulse Rate & Low Blood Volume

> >

> > Date: Saturday, April 9, 2011, 9:23 PM

> > Hello Phil, Barb & All,

> >

> > Hope you are all doing good. All these days I was doing

> > good with 50Mg TC every 15days and once or twice in a month

> > 250IU of HCG and 100 mcg of Synthroid.

> > Now a days I am feeling some chest pain, palpitations and

> > weekness. My brother in law is a medical doctor but yet to

> > get his licence. So checked and told me that my heart sounds

> > good but my pulse is low which shows a sign of low blood

> > volume. He asked me to take more fluids but I want to know

> > if there is anything else I have to keep in mind.

> >

> > I went to a cardiologist about 10 months ago and he told me

> > that I am good. No heart issues but I have thick blood with

> > my Test Cyp replacement. I took NattoKinase for about a

> > couple of months and I was good at that time. So stopped.

> >

> > The chest pain & pain in the left shoulder blade is

> > still coming and going. No doctor knows what is the problem.

> > My cholestrol is normal but not optimum. But at 39yrs old I

> > think I am good. My BP is very good always. 110/65 something

> > in that range. My pulse is always in 60s or sometimes low

> > 70s

> >

> > What do you think I have to do now? My anual labs are due

> > this week. I will know more about my bloodwork then.

> >

> > Any ideas or suggestions will help.

> >

> > Thanks

> > Joe

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Your one in a million that can do this good on that low a dose every 15 days

unless your doing the shot and testing in 3 days you can't do this you need to

test labs the morning of your next shot but before it in case your not doing

this.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: inc_100 <no_reply >

> Subject: Re: Low Pulse Rate & Low Blood Volume

>

> Date: Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 11:31 PM

> Phil and Barb,

>

> Thank you for your inputs.

>

> Phil, I have been doing Test C this way almost 2 yrs and

> its working good for me. My levels are around 700 something

> and I just leave it there. Very recently I started 60mgs

> every 15days and its still good. I will be going for my labs

> this week. Then I will see if I have to change the dose.

>

> Yes. You have been telling me about the frequency and

> dosage of the shots but for somereason I am doing good with

> this 15 day 50mg shots and even my estradiol is also not

> high. The first couple of days of my shot I take DIM and

> then no need of DIM untill my second shot.

>

> My Thyroid labs are very old. I will be knowing my new labs

> and then I will post them.

>

> Thank you all.

>

> Joe

>

>

> >

> > > From: inc_100 <no_reply >

> > > Subject: Low Pulse Rate & Low

> Blood Volume

> > >

> > > Date: Saturday, April 9, 2011, 9:23 PM

> > > Hello Phil, Barb & All,

> > >

> > > Hope you are all doing good. All these days I was

> doing

> > > good with 50Mg TC every 15days and once or twice

> in a month

> > > 250IU of HCG and 100 mcg of Synthroid.

> > > Now a days I am feeling some chest pain,

> palpitations and

> > > weekness. My brother in law is a medical doctor

> but yet to

> > > get his licence. So checked and told me that my

> heart sounds

> > > good but my pulse is low which shows a sign of

> low blood

> > > volume. He asked me to take more fluids but I

> want to know

> > > if there is anything else I have to keep in mind.

>

> > >

> > > I went to a cardiologist about 10 months ago and

> he told me

> > > that I am good. No heart issues but I have thick

> blood with

> > > my Test Cyp replacement. I took NattoKinase for

> about a

> > > couple of months and I was good at that time. So

> stopped.

> > >

> > > The chest pain & pain in the left shoulder

> blade is

> > > still coming and going. No doctor knows what is

> the problem.

> > > My cholestrol is normal but not optimum. But at

> 39yrs old I

> > > think I am good. My BP is very good always.

> 110/65 something

> > > in that range. My pulse is always in 60s or

> sometimes low

> > > 70s

> > >

> > > What do you think I have to do now? My anual labs

> are due

> > > this week. I will know more about my bloodwork

> then.

> > >

> > > Any ideas or suggestions will help.

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > > Joe

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

>

> Hello Phil, Barb & All,

>

> The chest pain & pain in the left shoulder blade is still coming and going. No

doctor knows what is the problem. My cholestrol is normal but not optimum. But

at 39yrs old I think I am good. My BP is very good always. 110/65 something in

that range. My pulse is always in 60s or sometimes low 70s

>

That sounds like a pretty normal pulse rate. Normal is 60 to 100. My resting

pulse rate is in the low 50's. I have seen it as low as 48

> What do you think I have to do now? My anual labs are due this week. I will

know more about my bloodwork then.

>

> Any ideas or suggestions will help.

>

> Thanks

> Joe

>

[Guest guest]

You know, a testosterone level of 250 is " normal " too. But guys with that level

usually suffer physically. Likewise, a pulse well below 70 is usually from low

thyroid levels. And above 80 can also be from low thyroid or other cardiac

conditions.

With your pulse that low, can you tell me that you are of normal weight and are

not on any pharmaceuticals for blood pressure, cholesterol, and have no fatigue

or brain fog?

Barb

> >

> > Hello Phil, Barb & All,

> >

> > The chest pain & pain in the left shoulder blade is still coming and going.

No doctor knows what is the problem. My cholestrol is normal but not optimum.

But at 39yrs old I think I am good. My BP is very good always. 110/65 something

in that range. My pulse is always in 60s or sometimes low 70s

> >

>

> That sounds like a pretty normal pulse rate. Normal is 60 to 100. My resting

pulse rate is in the low 50's. I have seen it as low as 48

>

>

> > What do you think I have to do now? My anual labs are due this week. I will

know more about my bloodwork then.

> >

> > Any ideas or suggestions will help.

> >

> > Thanks

> > Joe

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Barb,

Thank you for your response. I agree with you on the Testosterone levels but

from what I read most of the time .........levels around 700 are good or Ok. And

more over if I have to take only one shot every 15days and a couple of Hcg

shots, I am good with it. The reason is .... I dont like shots. Even a 31 Gauge

needle...... I still dont like it.

And coming to pulse, you are right. And I dont have any other problems like BP

or high cholestrol or anything else.

My only conditions are Low T from Low FSH & LH (Secondary Hypo)and Hypothyroid.

And I have fatigue sometimes. I take a 100mcg synthroid per day and 50mg TC

every 15days. I have extreme high levels of Thyroid Antibodies and they dont

come down. My doctor asked me to try Thyroid Response.

My Thyroidperoxide Antibodies are 946 (Range is < 30). Extremly high

My Thyroglobulin antibodies are 428 (Range is < 20). My Endo at somepoint told

me that my Low T may be because of my extremely high thyroid antibodies.

What I believe is I had a radioactive iodine test for " heart palpitations "

(later I came to know that my low thyroid gave palpitations and no heart

disease) and with in a couple of months after the test I saw a gradual decrease

in my Testosterone and ended up here.

What surprises me is my T levels stay about 700 till the 15th day with or with

out HCG shots (2times 250iu with 3day gap). I dont see much difference in my

labs.

But coming to physical well being or feeling well comes with HCG shots. That's

what I observed.

I am lean and of healthy weight about 140lbs. Not a lot of belly fat. Just a

little. Medium activity levels. Aged 38yrs.

Barb & Phil, I just settled for these doses and for these labs. I dont try to

achieve more because its more testing, more doc visits and more meds and more

shots.

I will be going for my anual labs this week and I will post my results. Its been

about 6 months since I had my labs.

Thank you all,

Joe

> > >

> > > Hello Phil, Barb & All,

> > >

> > > The chest pain & pain in the left shoulder blade is still coming and

going. No doctor knows what is the problem. My cholestrol is normal but not

optimum. But at 39yrs old I think I am good. My BP is very good always. 110/65

something in that range. My pulse is always in 60s or sometimes low 70s

> > >

> >

> > That sounds like a pretty normal pulse rate. Normal is 60 to 100. My

resting pulse rate is in the low 50's. I have seen it as low as 48

> >

> >

> > > What do you think I have to do now? My anual labs are due this week. I

will know more about my bloodwork then.

> > >

> > > Any ideas or suggestions will help.

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > > Joe

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Joe, you misunderstood . . . my response was to Ray, not you! He has a pulse as

low as 48 and thinks that's normal. (it's buried within your post at the

bottom) I was trying to say that it wasn't, to him, not you! And no, I don't

think a testosterone level of 250 is good, but according to lab ranges, it's

" normal. " That was my point, that ranges go so low that they include a lot of

unhealthy people, be it testosterone range, thyroid range, pulse, etc.

Barb

> > > >

> > > > Hello Phil, Barb & All,

> > > >

> > > > The chest pain & pain in the left shoulder blade is still coming and

going. No doctor knows what is the problem. My cholestrol is normal but not

optimum. But at 39yrs old I think I am good. My BP is very good always. 110/65

something in that range. My pulse is always in 60s or sometimes low 70s

> > > >

> > >

> > > That sounds like a pretty normal pulse rate. Normal is 60 to 100. My

resting pulse rate is in the low 50's. I have seen it as low as 48

> > >

> > >

> > > > What do you think I have to do now? My anual labs are due this week. I

will know more about my bloodwork then.

> > > >

> > > > Any ideas or suggestions will help.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks

> > > > Joe

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Joe,

If you feel good doing this I day don't fix it unless it's broken. One thing I

have read about Hashimoto thyroiditis most do better on meds like the old Armour

there is a new one out called NP thyroid that is just like the old Armour. They

get to a dose that lowers there TSH down and this lowers there Antibodies they

stop the attack.

My wife did this when the old Armour was out and after many yrs on Synthroid she

felt much better.

The following is from Dr. Dach M.D. he says " selenium supplementation

will normalize and drive down antibody levels on serial lab studies. "

And after taking selenium the now can take Iodine or Iodoral and he finds this

helps them. I take Iodoral everyday.

http://jeffreydach.com/2011/04/06/iodine-is-safe-and-effective-by-jeffrey-dach-m\

d.aspx

====================================================

In terms of iodine testing, we test everybody routinely. We do a simple spot

iodine urine level, which is done by one of the large national labs (we have

Quest or LabCorp in our area). This is easy, since the patient is already at the

lab for a complete blood test panel, and is already providing a spot urine

sample for the U/A (routine urinalysis). So, another spot urine in a cup for the

iodine level is easy to do. This is easier and more convenient than the 24-hour

leading test, and I have found the results of the spot test very useful. In

patients already supplementing with iodine, the urine spot iodine test is

omitted, since high urinary excretion makes the spot urine test useless.

However, as a baseline test before starting iodine, I have found the spot urine

iodine extremely useful. If the spot urine test results are high, the patient

will usually admit to a diet that includes seaweed, or is already on an iodine

supplement of some type. Mostly we

find the results at the low end of the range.

As you know, the problem with Iodoral (iodine) relates to the patient with

Hashimoto's thyroiditis with elevated TPO and/or thyroglobulin antibodies. These

patients may go into Hashitoxicosis after supplementing with iodine, exhibiting

hyperthyroid symptoms possibly requiring hospitalization for thyroid storm.

We are finding Hashimoto's thyroiditis to be more common than originally

thought, almost epidemic, and it seems to be increasing. On a routine basis,

initial evaluation includes thyroid antibody levels. In addition, all patients

routinely must have a serum selenium level drawn. I have found that in almost

all patients with elevated antibodies, selenium supplementation will normalize

and drive down antibody levels on serial lab studies.

In order to prevent the thyroid storm and other adverse effects from iodine in

Hashimoto's patients, as you know, these patients must be supplemented with

selenium first. This is why we first routinely draw a serum selenium, and for

those cases below 135 ng/ml, we give 200-400 meg of selenomethionune for three

weeks before starting the iodine supplementation at 6.25 mg (half the 12.5 mg

tab) every other day.

Starting with a lower dose of iodine avoids the various adverse effects of skin

itching and metallic taste and GI symptoms that can be reported at first. These

are usually transient, and after a week or so, the dose can be safely increased

to a full tablet daily.

Occasionally, we see a typical Hashimoto's patient with an elevated TSH around 5

or 6, and also an upper range free T3 around 350 to 400. These patients respond

to selenium supplementation well, and follow-up labs usually show free T3 coming

down to the 280-300 level, which in retrospect indicates the patient initially

exhibited a slight thyrotoxic effect of the Hashimoto's thyroiditis, which then

cooled down after the selenium. At this point it is safe to start the iodoral.

If a Hashi's patient with a slightly overfunctioning thyroid and coexisting low

selenium level is then started on iodine without first optimizing the selenium

level, this will aggravate the thyroiditis, and possibly throw the patient into

thyroid storm.

Leaving the area of Hashimoto's and going to the general patient (with normal

antibody levels without Hashi's), another big issue with iodine supplementation

is that the TSH may go up, which is then interpreted by the family physician as

a sign of hypothyroidism. This interpretation is an error, as the elevated TSH

is cosmetic and unrelated to underlying thyroid function in these cases.

A good example of this is a 55-year-old woman who came to see me after taking an

iodine supplement from a health food store, hoping to shrink her goiter. The

high school kid at the health food store gave her the wrong dosage instructions,

and she had been taking a huge overdose of iodine for months. She felt fine, and

a routine thyroid lab panel at her primary care physician showed a TSH of 65!

The doctor was very concerned and told her that she " blew out " her thyroid with

the health food store iodine, that she was severely hypothyroid, and gave her a

prescription for Synthroid for her " hypothyroid " state.

Here was a lady sitting in front of me who felt fine and had no symptoms of

hypothyroidism. I sent her to the lab for a repeat panel and her Free T3 was

normal at 330, indicating that she had normal thyroid function and did not need

Synthroid. I explained to the patient that the elevated TSH was an " artifact " of

the iodine supplementation, and that nothing else needed to be done other than

stop the iodine and retest the TSH every 6 weeks or so. Six weeks later her TSH

had come down to 10 and six weeks after that it was down to 4. The lady said

thank you and I never saw her again.

All of this information is Brownstein's Iodine book, which I credit for

helping me immensely to figure out the day-to-day practicalities of how to

actually do iodine supplementation in our practice. In order to safely use

iodine, the biochemistry and physiology of the thyroid gland must be reviewed

and understood by the practitioner. Much of this information is newly uncovered,

and is beautifully presented in Dr Brownstein's Iodine book.

I would urge all practitioners to routinely test antibody levels, serum

selenium, and baseline spot urine for iodine on all patients before starting

iodine supplementation. These tests are available at the large national labs and

are convenient and easy to do. In patients with elevated antibody levels,

supplementation with selenium is critical to avoid adverse effects from the

iodine supplementation. Selenium reduces antibody levels, cools down the

thyroiditis, and prevents thyroid storm, making it safe to start the iodine. As

you know, iodine supplementation is preventive for goiter and breast cancer, and

yet there is greater benefit such as utility in normalizing blood sugar in type

2 diabetes, and utility to prevent the many thyroid nodules and cysts common in

the population. (10) (above article by Dach MD, courtesy of the Townsend

Letter)

Comment on TSH level and Thyroid Failure

Regarding the question about the elevated TSH indicating " early " or

subclinical " thyroid failure in the above patient:

I do not believe the above patient with the elevated TSH had thyroid failure

because of the following facts:

1) Thyroid failure is associated with signs and symptoms of a low thyroid

condition. She had none. She felt fine with normal energy and no fatiigue.

2) Thyroid failure is associated with measurably low levels of thyroid homone in

the blood. This patient had normal levels of blood thyroid hormones on her lab

panel.

Iodine puts the " brakes " on thyroid hormone release by the thyroid gland,

explaining the benefit and routine use of lugol's Iodine for thyroid storm and

as a pre-operative treatment for Graves' Disease hyperthyroidism. (15-17)

Dr. Brownstein on Iodine Supplementation as protection after a Nuclear Accident

(12)

Brownsteins's blog is an excellent source of information on iodine and I

strongly recommend his series of articles on iodine protection after the

Japanese nuclear accident. (12) Dr. Brownstein is author of an important

book on Iodine, an excellent resource for those interested in further reading.

For articles with related interest:

Breast Cancer Prevention and Iodine Supplementation by Dach MD

Iodine Treats Breast Cancer, Overwhelming Evidence by Dach MD

For more on Iodine Supplementation, see the entire series in the Townsend Letter

(4-8):

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_7396/is_329/ai_n56436087/?tag=content;col1

Megadose iodine: an idea whose time has gone. Townsend Letter, Dec, 2010 by

Alan R. Gaby

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_7396/is_331-332/ai_n57095439/

Iodine debate continues Townsend Letter, Feb-March, 2011 by Brownstein,

Guy Abraham

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_7396/is_331-332/ai_n57095441/?tag=content;\

col1 Alan Gaby replies Townsend Letter, Feb-March, 2011

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_7396/is_331-332/ai_n57095444/?tag=content;\

col1 Another positive report on iodine Townsend Letter, Feb-March, 2011 by Kent

Holtorf

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_7396/is_331-332/ai_n57095440/?tag=content;\

col1 Rebuttal to Dr. Gaby's iodine editorial Townsend Letter, Feb-March, 2011

by Geoffrey S. Ames

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: inc_100 <no_reply >

> Subject: Re: Low Pulse Rate & Low Blood Volume

>

> Date: Wednesday, April 13, 2011, 9:36 PM

> Barb,

>

> Thank you for your response. I agree with you on the

> Testosterone levels but from what I read most of the time

> .........levels around 700 are good or Ok. And more over if

> I have to take only one shot every 15days and a couple of

> Hcg shots, I am good with it. The reason is .... I dont like

> shots. Even a 31 Gauge needle...... I still dont like it.

>

> And coming to pulse, you  are right. And I dont have

> any other problems like BP or high cholestrol or anything

> else.

>

> My only conditions are Low T from Low FSH & LH

> (Secondary Hypo)and Hypothyroid. And I have fatigue

> sometimes. I take a 100mcg synthroid  per day and 50mg

> TC every 15days. I have extreme high levels of Thyroid

> Antibodies and they dont come down. My doctor asked me to

> try Thyroid Response.

>

> My Thyroidperoxide Antibodies are 946 (Range is < 30).

> Extremly high

> My Thyroglobulin antibodies are 428 (Range is < 20). My

> Endo at somepoint told me that my Low T may be because of my

> extremely high thyroid antibodies.

>

> What I believe is I had a radioactive iodine test for

> " heart palpitations " (later I came to know that my low

> thyroid gave palpitations and no heart disease) and with in

> a couple of months after the test I saw a gradual decrease

> in my Testosterone and ended up here.

> What surprises me is my T levels stay about 700 till the

> 15th day with or with out HCG shots (2times 250iu with 3day

> gap). I dont see much difference in my labs.

>

> But coming to physical well being or feeling well comes

> with HCG shots. That's what I observed.

>

> I am lean and of healthy weight about 140lbs. Not a lot of

> belly fat. Just a little. Medium activity levels. Aged

> 38yrs.

>

> Barb & Phil, I just settled for these doses and for

> these labs. I dont try to achieve more because its more

> testing, more doc visits and more meds and more shots.

>

> I will be going for my anual labs this week and I will post

> my results. Its been about 6 months since I had my labs.

>

> Thank you all,

> Joe

>

> > > >

> > > > Hello Phil, Barb & All,

> > > >

> > > > The chest pain & pain in the left

> shoulder blade is still coming and going. No doctor knows

> what is the problem. My cholestrol is normal but not

> optimum. But at 39yrs old I think I am good. My BP is very

> good always. 110/65 something in that range. My pulse is

> always in 60s or sometimes low 70s

> > > >

> > >

> > > That sounds like a pretty normal pulse

> rate.  Normal is 60 to 100.  My resting pulse rate

> is in the low 50's.  I have seen it as low as 48

> > >

> > >

> > > > What do you think I have to do now? My anual

> labs are due this week. I will know more about my bloodwork

> then.

> > > >

> > > > Any ideas or suggestions will help.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks

> > > > Joe

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> You know, a testosterone level of 250 is " normal " too. But guys with that

level usually suffer physically. Likewise, a pulse well below 70 is usually

from low thyroid levels. And above 80 can also be from low thyroid or other

cardiac conditions.

>

> With your pulse that low, can you tell me that you are of normal weight and

are not on any pharmaceuticals for blood pressure, cholesterol, and have no

fatigue or brain fog?

>

> Barb

Hi Barb, and Phil in case you care to comment,

I am here for the education, any help appreciated. I weigh 170 which is exactly

1 pound less than I weighed 50 years ago when I was discharged from the Army.

This puts me near the high end of normal (BMI 24.4). The drugs that I take on a

daily basis are Nature-Throid 195 mg. for thyroid replacement and Lunesta 1 mg.

for a strange condition called REM sleep Behavior Disorder (RBD).

My Cholesterol is 159, HDL 65, LDL 82, triglycerides 50. Doctor wants LDL under

70.

My TSH is .01, FT4 1.15 (.78-2.19) FT3 4.4 (2.77-5.27). Doctor says I am

clinically hyperthyroid. I say for the large dose of Nature-Throid my FT3 and

FT4 numbers look good. I am taking 2.6 mg./kg. verses RLC recommendation of 1.2

to 1.8 mg./kg. Comments on that appreciated. I think I am on the right dosage.

When I try less hypo tension, fatigue, and constipation return in about 2 weeks.

If I tried longer I am sure more symptoms would come back. An increase dose

disrupted sleep. Besides it is already higher than recommended.

Before I started thyroid replacement my testosterone had been as low as 125.

Recent results were Testosterone 382, Free T 9.9 (9-30), Estradiol 26 (<54),

DHEA 1.4 (<.5), SHBG 48 (10-57). Free testosterone has always been low. Doctor

is not concerned. I am not sure what testosterone replacement would do to

benefit me. Comments?

My resting blood pressure ranges from 90/40 to 125/60. The average (113/55) is

normal. The high pulse pressure is probably due to age. I suffer from white

coat hyper tension. Cardioligist put me on a monitor which confirmed some heart

rates in the low 50's and some hypo tension. That, plus stress test and other

assorted tests lead her to believe that I don't have a heart problem. Hypo

tension was a problem for me before thyroid replacement.

My perusal of the internet tells me that normal pulse rate is 60 to 100.

Trained athletes are as low as 40. I exercise almost every day (45 minutes

average) by not at all athletic. I takes me 2 hours to bike 20 miles. My

somewhat older friend can do it in about 45 minutes. It takes me 27 minutes to

swim a half a mile. A good swimmer can do it around 10 minutes. While I

technically have bradycardia, the literature I have read says it is not a

problem nor is it treated unless it causes other symptoms. Comments?

The only problem that I have that may be related to endocrinology is a constant

sore throat and recurrent periods of bad hoarseness. 3 ENT's and 3 GP's have

come of with possible causes all of which have been proven to be incorrect.

Thanks

Ray

> > That sounds like a pretty normal pulse rate. Normal is 60 to 100. My

resting pulse rate is in the low 50's. I have seen it as low as 48

[Guest guest]

Hi Ray,

So what dose your Dr. say to do about your LDL mine is 102 range is <130 mg/dL

(calc) not a problem for me and I had Heart Bypass Sugery 2.5 yrs ago. If he

says change your diet try it if he wants to put you on Statin Drugs think dam

hard about doing this. I can't walk today from taking them after my Heart

Bypass Sugery and I never had high Chol. levels in my life.

So I say so what if your LDL is to high for your Dr.

I can't say if your Thyroid is to high or your med are to much and making you

hyper. I was this low for TSH .01 on 4 grains of the older Armour. But my

Temps Avg. was 99.6 my heart rate was 110 and my BP was up I also have WCS so

it's hard to check my BP even when I take it.

I read at Dr. M's forum about the brain needing TSH to make it's own Thyroid

Hormones. Today I am on 150 mcgs of T4 with 5 mcgs. of T3 3x's / day my TSH is

2.33 and I feel dam good.

I am not sure what your taking about when you say your " taking 2.6 mg./kg.

verses RLC recommendation of 1.2 to 1.8 mg./kg. " What are you taking.

To tell if your on the hyper side take your temps after your up 3hrs. then every

3 hrs. 3x's /day. If your avg. is above 98.6 you might be hyper. Add them up

div. by 3 and chart this.

http://www.drrind.com/therapies/metabolic-temperature-graph

Your Testosteone levels are very low your Estradiol looks OK but need to see

your LH and FSH if this is low also you might have a Pituitary Problem and this

can be why your levels are low for Thyroid. Most men that are Secondary meaning

the have a Pituitary Problem need an MRI on there Pituitary to rule out a tumor

it's rare to be cancer. But with this problem you can have a lot of hormones

that would be low or low in the normal range. I have this problem due to a head

injury and need to supplement all my Hormones.

Your Free T is low but your Total T is very low and Free T is only 1 to 2 % of

your Total T so with your TT this low your Free T being low dose not matter.

Nothing from Nothing is Nothing.

Here is what I do for my low Testosterone levels.

And this is new I think they have been reading my posts. I have been doing

this over 8 yrs.

http://www.mens-hormonal-health.com/testosterone-therapy.html

Your constant sore throat can be low cortisol levels I has this problem for many

yrs. with Bronkits an upper resperparey infections one after the other. I now

am on meds for this I take 30 mgs of Cortef. I do 10 mgs in the morning at

about 5am then 5 mgs with each meal and at bedtime no more problems.

If you don't do some thing about your Testosterone levels it will shorten your

life.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: rayr_us <ray89012@...>

> Subject: Re: Low Pulse Rate & Low Blood Volume

>

> Date: Thursday, April 14, 2011, 11:00 AM

>

>

>

> >

> > You know, a testosterone level of 250 is " normal "

> too.  But guys with that level usually suffer

> physically.  Likewise, a pulse well below 70 is usually

> from low thyroid levels.  And above 80 can also be from

> low thyroid or other cardiac conditions.

> >

> > With your pulse that low, can you tell me that you are

> of normal weight and are not on any pharmaceuticals for

> blood pressure, cholesterol, and have no fatigue or brain

> fog?

> >

> > Barb

>

> Hi Barb, and Phil in case you care to comment,

>

> I am here for the education, any help appreciated.  I

> weigh 170 which is exactly 1 pound less than I weighed 50

> years ago when I was discharged from the Army.  This

> puts me near the high end of normal (BMI 24.4).  The

> drugs that I take on a daily basis are Nature-Throid 195 mg.

> for thyroid replacement and Lunesta 1 mg. for a strange

> condition called REM sleep Behavior Disorder (RBD).

>

> My Cholesterol is 159, HDL 65, LDL 82, triglycerides

> 50.  Doctor wants LDL under 70.

>

> My TSH is .01, FT4 1.15 (.78-2.19) FT3 4.4

> (2.77-5.27).  Doctor says I am clinically

> hyperthyroid.  I say for the large dose of

> Nature-Throid my FT3 and FT4 numbers look good.  I am

> taking 2.6 mg./kg. verses RLC recommendation of 1.2 to 1.8

> mg./kg.  Comments on that appreciated.  I think I

> am on the right dosage.  When I try less hypo tension,

> fatigue, and constipation return in about 2 weeks.  If

> I tried longer I am sure more symptoms would come

> back.  An increase dose disrupted sleep.  Besides

> it is already higher than recommended.

>

> Before I started thyroid replacement my testosterone had

> been as low as 125.  Recent results were Testosterone

> 382, Free T 9.9 (9-30), Estradiol 26 (<54), DHEA 1.4

> (<.5), SHBG 48 (10-57).  Free testosterone has

> always been low.  Doctor is not concerned.  I am

> not sure what testosterone replacement would do to benefit

> me.  Comments?

>

> My resting blood pressure ranges from 90/40 to

> 125/60.  The average (113/55) is normal.  The high

> pulse pressure is probably due to age.  I suffer from

> white coat hyper tension.  Cardioligist put me on a

> monitor which confirmed some heart rates in the low 50's and

> some hypo tension.  That, plus stress test and other

> assorted tests lead her to believe that I don't have a heart

> problem.  Hypo tension was a problem for me before

> thyroid replacement. 

>

> My perusal of the internet tells me that normal pulse rate

> is 60 to 100.  Trained athletes are as low as 40. 

> I exercise almost every day (45 minutes average) by not at

> all athletic.  I takes me 2 hours to bike 20

> miles.  My somewhat older friend can do it in about 45

> minutes.  It takes me 27 minutes to swim a half a

> mile.  A good swimmer can do it around 10

> minutes.  While I technically have bradycardia, the

> literature I have read says it is not a problem nor is it

> treated unless it causes other symptoms.  Comments?

>

> The only problem that I have that may be related to

> endocrinology is a constant sore throat and recurrent

> periods of bad hoarseness.  3 ENT's and 3 GP's have

> come of with possible causes all of which have been proven

> to be incorrect.

>

> Thanks

>

> Ray

>

>

> > > That sounds like a pretty normal pulse

> rate.  Normal is 60 to 100.  My resting pulse rate

> is in the low 50's.  I have seen it as low as 48

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

> I am here for the education, any help appreciated. I weigh 170 which is

exactly 1 pound less than I weighed 50 years ago when I was discharged from the

Army. This puts me near the high end of normal (BMI 24.4). The drugs that I

take on a daily basis are Nature-Throid 195 mg. for thyroid replacement and

Lunesta 1 mg. for a strange condition called REM sleep Behavior Disorder (RBD).

What is RBD? Many whose hormone levels are off can't sleep, but I've never

heard of RBD.

> My Cholesterol is 159, HDL 65, LDL 82, triglycerides 50. Doctor wants LDL

under 70.

>

> My TSH is .01, FT4 1.15 (.78-2.19) FT3 4.4 (2.77-5.27). Doctor says I am

clinically hyperthyroid.

Clinically means you have visible signs/symptoms of hyper, like a fast pulse,

high body temperature, etc. Aren't you the one who's 95 degrees? I'm guessing

your doc is saying you're hyperthyroid based solely on the TSH. But you cannot

dose by TSH if you take any med that contains T3. Read this:

http://tiredthyroid.com/tsh.html

>I say for the large dose of Nature-Throid my FT3 and FT4 numbers look good. I

am taking 2.6 mg./kg. verses RLC recommendation of 1.2 to 1.8 mg./kg.

You cannot base a dose on any formula, especially one on weight. Too many other

variables like cellular resistance, low conversion, etc. You have to use labs in

conjunction with symptoms. Your FT4 could go a little higher, since the optimal

part of the FT3 and FT4 is above the midpoint, and your FT4 is below that. Many

also take their FT3 up to the top, it depends on symptoms. If your pulse if 50

and your body temp is 95-96, then you have room to raise.

> An increase dose disrupted sleep. Besides it is already higher than

recommended.

I have seen people take as little as 1/2 grain and as much as 20 grains, so like

I already said, there is no " recommended " dose.

> Before I started thyroid replacement my testosterone had been as low as 125.

Recent results were Testosterone 382, Free T 9.9 (9-30), Estradiol 26 (<54),

DHEA 1.4 (<.5), SHBG 48 (10-57). Free testosterone has always been low. Doctor

is not concerned. I am not sure what testosterone replacement would do to

benefit me. Comments?

TRT is a literal pain in the butt, so unless you really want to deal with that .

.. . plus, it looks like your total more that doubled just bringing thyroid up?

Maybe you should work on getting thyroid optimal first?

> My resting blood pressure ranges from 90/40 to 125/60. The average (113/55)

is normal.

I hardly think 90/40 is normal, and is close to pass-out levels. Don't you get

light-headed when you stand up? I would want to check aldosterone and cortisol

levels.

>The high pulse pressure is probably due to age. I suffer from white coat hyper

tension. Cardioligist put me on a monitor which confirmed some heart rates in

the low 50's and some hypo tension. That, plus stress test and other assorted

tests lead her to believe that I don't have a heart problem. Hypo tension was a

problem for me before thyroid replacement.

If you're saying your BP was even lower than these numbers before thyroid, then

looks like you still need to raise thyroid more!

> My perusal of the internet tells me that normal pulse rate is 60 to 100.

Trained athletes are as low as 40.

You can find any number on the internet. Like I already said, ranges are way

too broad and include the unhealthy. Optimum tends to be around the middle of

the range, though some ranges are skewed left or right and we're unaware of it.

Yes, trained athletes can have very low pulse rates; they also have very high

rT3. This can make them somewhat hypo, and hypo can cause things like cancer.

Lance Armstrong could be an example of this at work. There are so many

variables that need to come together to create disease, but I personally don't

believe a pulse in the 40s is a good thing.

>I exercise almost every day (45 minutes average) by not at all athletic. I

takes me 2 hours to bike 20 miles. My somewhat older friend can do it in about

45 minutes. It takes me 27 minutes to swim a half a mile. A good swimmer can

do it around 10 minutes. While I technically have bradycardia, the literature I

have read says it is not a problem nor is it treated unless it causes other

symptoms. Comments?

Off the top of my head, the things that raise pulse are thyroid, adrenaline, and

electrolyte imbalances.

> The only problem that I have that may be related to endocrinology is a

constant sore throat and recurrent periods of bad hoarseness. 3 ENT's and 3

GP's have come of with possible causes all of which have been proven to be

incorrect.

Do you have autoimmune thyroid disease aka Hashi's? That could cause a sore

throat. Do you suffer from anything like depression, anxiety, paranoia? Do you

have a full head of hair and eyebrows? Is your skin dry? Are your heels

peeling or smooth? Do you feel that maybe you're still somewhat hypo? If all

your labs are " normal " why are you here?

Barb

[Guest guest]

Barb & Phil,

Thank you so much for the information. You guys are wonderful and so much of

help.

Barb, I got your message. I hope Ray gets some help.

Phil, what I heard is that if I get Hashimotos under control, my LH/FSH may go

up and my Testosterone levels may be back to Normal. What do You think ?????

The information you provided is very useful. I will take it to my doctor.

Atleast we all need a miracle and get all our harmone levels normal.

Thanks

Joe

> > > > >

> > > > > Hello Phil, Barb & All,

> > > > >

> > > > > The chest pain & pain in the left

> > shoulder blade is still coming and going. No doctor knows

> > what is the problem. My cholestrol is normal but not

> > optimum. But at 39yrs old I think I am good. My BP is very

> > good always. 110/65 something in that range. My pulse is

> > always in 60s or sometimes low 70s

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > That sounds like a pretty normal pulse

> > rate.  Normal is 60 to 100.  My resting pulse rate

> > is in the low 50's.  I have seen it as low as 48

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > What do you think I have to do now? My anual

> > labs are due this week. I will know more about my bloodwork

> > then.

> > > > >

> > > > > Any ideas or suggestions will help.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks

> > > > > Joe

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

>

> > I am here for the education, any help appreciated. I weigh 170 which is

exactly 1 pound less than I weighed 50 years ago when I was discharged from the

Army. This puts me near the high end of normal (BMI 24.4). The drugs that I

take on a daily basis are Nature-Throid 195 mg. for thyroid replacement and

Lunesta 1 mg. for a strange condition called REM sleep Behavior Disorder (RBD).

>

> What is RBD? Many whose hormone levels are off can't sleep, but I've never

heard of RBD.

REM sleep is when people have active dreams. In order to keep the cave man from

jumping off the edge of a cliff while dreaming about escaping from a saber tooth

tiger nature arranges for a person's muscles to freeze while in REM sleep. In

about 1 out of 200 people (mostly older males) this process does not happen. As

a result while I dream of attacking a boogeyman I am actually leaping out of

bed. It hurts when I wake up on the floor. People have chocked their spouses

to death while both were asleep, so it can be a dangerous condition. After a

half dozen sleep doctors and a dozen potent drugs with all sorts of noxious side

effects a doctor prescribed a rather benign drug, Lunesta. An aside I have

moderately severe arthritis. Doctor prescribed various NSAIDs, some with some

pretty scary side effects. While the help with pain, RBD returned. Doctor said

it shouldn't happen and prescribed more potent drugs. Sleep doctor never heard

of it either but said don't take NSAIDs. This has made me leery of drugs so I

tend to err on the side of not taking them or if needed under dosing.

>

> > My Cholesterol is 159, HDL 65, LDL 82, triglycerides 50. Doctor wants LDL

under 70.

> >

> > My TSH is .01, FT4 1.15 (.78-2.19) FT3 4.4 (2.77-5.27). Doctor says I am

clinically hyperthyroid.

>

> Clinically means you have visible signs/symptoms of hyper, like a fast pulse,

high body temperature, etc. Aren't you the one who's 95 degrees? I'm guessing

your doc is saying you're hyperthyroid based solely on the TSH. But you cannot

dose by TSH if you take any med that contains T3. Read this:

http://tiredthyroid.com/tsh.html

>

I know this, convincing the doctor is a different story. Most doctors go by

TSH.

> >I say for the large dose of Nature-Throid my FT3 and FT4 numbers look good.

I am taking 2.6 mg./kg. verses RLC recommendation of 1.2 to 1.8 mg./kg.

>

> You cannot base a dose on any formula, especially one on weight. Too many

other variables like cellular resistance, low conversion, etc. You have to use

labs in conjunction with symptoms. Your FT4 could go a little higher, since the

optimal part of the FT3 and FT4 is above the midpoint, and your FT4 is below

that. Many also take their FT3 up to the top, it depends on symptoms. If your

pulse if 50 and your body temp is 95-96, then you have room to raise.

>

> > An increase dose disrupted sleep. Besides it is already higher than

recommended.

>

> I have seen people take as little as 1/2 grain and as much as 20 grains, so

like I already said, there is no " recommended " dose.

What I have read says it is probably healthier to be a little hypo rather than a

little hyper. I tend to minimize drugs that I take. All the hypo symptoms

aside from sore throat and hoarseness have gone, and I am not really sure of

their cause.

>

> > Before I started thyroid replacement my testosterone had been as low as 125.

Recent results were Testosterone 382, Free T 9.9 (9-30), Estradiol 26 (<54),

DHEA 1.4 (<.5), SHBG 48 (10-57). Free testosterone has always been low. Doctor

is not concerned. I am not sure what testosterone replacement would do to

benefit me. Comments?

>

> TRT is a literal pain in the butt, so unless you really want to deal with that

.. . . plus, it looks like your total more that doubled just bringing thyroid up?

Maybe you should work on getting thyroid optimal first?

Testosterone replacement is probably riskier than thyroid replacement. My

testosterone is within 1 sigma of the mean for my age. Since this is not Lake

Wobegon we can't all be above average.

>

> > My resting blood pressure ranges from 90/40 to 125/60. The average (113/55)

is normal.

>

> I hardly think 90/40 is normal, and is close to pass-out levels. Don't you

get light-headed when you stand up? I would want to check aldosterone and

cortisol levels.

>

I have had them tested a number of times and they are always in range. While on

a heart monitor I had one reading of 80/43. While asleep the BP never went

above 100/60. Many pulse rate readings in the low 50's. The doctor said that

was perfectly normal.

> >The high pulse pressure is probably due to age. I suffer from white coat

hyper tension. Cardioligist put me on a monitor which confirmed some heart

rates in the low 50's and some hypo tension. That, plus stress test and other

assorted tests lead her to believe that I don't have a heart problem. Hypo

tension was a problem for me before thyroid replacement.

>

> If you're saying your BP was even lower than these numbers before thyroid,

then looks like you still need to raise thyroid more!

>

> > My perusal of the internet tells me that normal pulse rate is 60 to 100.

Trained athletes are as low as 40.

>

> You can find any number on the internet. Like I already said, ranges are way

too broad and include the unhealthy. Optimum tends to be around the middle of

the range, though some ranges are skewed left or right and we're unaware of it.

Yes, trained athletes can have very low pulse rates; they also have very high

rT3. This can make them somewhat hypo, and hypo can cause things like cancer.

Lance Armstrong could be an example of this at work. There are so many

variables that need to come together to create disease, but I personally don't

believe a pulse in the 40s is a good thing.

>

> >I exercise almost every day (45 minutes average) by not at all athletic. I

takes me 2 hours to bike 20 miles. My somewhat older friend can do it in about

45 minutes. It takes me 27 minutes to swim a half a mile. A good swimmer can

do it around 10 minutes. While I technically have bradycardia, the literature I

have read says it is not a problem nor is it treated unless it causes other

symptoms. Comments?

>

> Off the top of my head, the things that raise pulse are thyroid, adrenaline,

and electrolyte imbalances.

>

> > The only problem that I have that may be related to endocrinology is a

constant sore throat and recurrent periods of bad hoarseness. 3 ENT's and 3

GP's have come of with possible causes all of which have been proven to be

incorrect.

>

> Do you have autoimmune thyroid disease aka Hashi's? That could cause a sore

throat. Do you suffer from anything like depression, anxiety, paranoia? Do you

have a full head of hair and eyebrows? Is your skin dry? Are your heels

peeling or smooth? Do you feel that maybe you're still somewhat hypo? If all

your labs are " normal " why are you here?

I have had the thyroid antibody tests. The levels were always below the limits.

An ultrasound shows a 4 mm. nodule. Doctors says most people have nodules and

they don't worry about anything less than 10 mm. No mental disorders. Full

head of hair with even some color left. I feel much better than I did before

thyroid replacement. Reason for looking for enlightenment is the sore throat

and hoarseness. I think there must be an underlying cause. Doctor's response

is since I have had it for 4 years and six doctors can find no cause it is

probably not life threatening. While true I don't think the answer is adequate.

Thanks for the help,

Ray

>

> Barb

>

[Guest guest]

> > >

> > > You know, a testosterone level of 250 is " normal "

> > too.  But guys with that level usually suffer

> > physically.  Likewise, a pulse well below 70 is usually

> > from low thyroid levels.  And above 80 can also be from

> > low thyroid or other cardiac conditions.

> > >

> > > With your pulse that low, can you tell me that you are

> > of normal weight and are not on any pharmaceuticals for

> > blood pressure, cholesterol, and have no fatigue or brain

> > fog?

> > >

> > > Barb

> >

> > Hi Barb, and Phil in case you care to comment,

> >

> > I am here for the education, any help appreciated.  I

> > weigh 170 which is exactly 1 pound less than I weighed 50

> > years ago when I was discharged from the Army.  This

> > puts me near the high end of normal (BMI 24.4).  The

> > drugs that I take on a daily basis are Nature-Throid 195 mg.

> > for thyroid replacement and Lunesta 1 mg. for a strange

> > condition called REM sleep Behavior Disorder (RBD).

> >

> > My Cholesterol is 159, HDL 65, LDL 82, triglycerides

> > 50.  Doctor wants LDL under 70.

> >

> > My TSH is .01, FT4 1.15 (.78-2.19) FT3 4.4

> > (2.77-5.27).  Doctor says I am clinically

> > hyperthyroid.  I say for the large dose of

> > Nature-Throid my FT3 and FT4 numbers look good.  I am

> > taking 2.6 mg./kg. verses RLC recommendation of 1.2 to 1.8

> > mg./kg.  Comments on that appreciated.  I think I

> > am on the right dosage.  When I try less hypo tension,

> > fatigue, and constipation return in about 2 weeks.  If

> > I tried longer I am sure more symptoms would come

> > back.  An increase dose disrupted sleep.  Besides

> > it is already higher than recommended.

> >

> > Before I started thyroid replacement my testosterone had

> > been as low as 125.  Recent results were Testosterone

> > 382, Free T 9.9 (9-30), Estradiol 26 (<54), DHEA 1.4

> > (<.5), SHBG 48 (10-57).  Free testosterone has

> > always been low.  Doctor is not concerned.  I am

> > not sure what testosterone replacement would do to benefit

> > me.  Comments?

> >

> > My resting blood pressure ranges from 90/40 to

> > 125/60.  The average (113/55) is normal.  The high

> > pulse pressure is probably due to age.  I suffer from

> > white coat hyper tension.  Cardioligist put me on a

> > monitor which confirmed some heart rates in the low 50's and

> > some hypo tension.  That, plus stress test and other

> > assorted tests lead her to believe that I don't have a heart

> > problem.  Hypo tension was a problem for me before

> > thyroid replacement. 

> >

> > My perusal of the internet tells me that normal pulse rate

> > is 60 to 100.  Trained athletes are as low as 40. 

> > I exercise almost every day (45 minutes average) by not at

> > all athletic.  I takes me 2 hours to bike 20

> > miles.  My somewhat older friend can do it in about 45

> > minutes.  It takes me 27 minutes to swim a half a

> > mile.  A good swimmer can do it around 10

> > minutes.  While I technically have bradycardia, the

> > literature I have read says it is not a problem nor is it

> > treated unless it causes other symptoms.  Comments?

> >

> > The only problem that I have that may be related to

> > endocrinology is a constant sore throat and recurrent

> > periods of bad hoarseness.  3 ENT's and 3 GP's have

> > come of with possible causes all of which have been proven

> > to be incorrect.

> >

> > Thanks

> >

> > Ray

> >

> >

> > > > That sounds like a pretty normal pulse

> > rate.  Normal is 60 to 100.  My resting pulse rate

> > is in the low 50's.  I have seen it as low as 48

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Well I hope with all this your not on Statin Drugs.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: rayr_us <ray89012@...>

> Subject: Re: Low Pulse Rate & Low Blood Volume

>

> Date: Friday, April 15, 2011, 2:21 PM

>

>

>

> >

> > > I am here for the education, any help

> appreciated.  I weigh 170 which is exactly 1 pound less

> than I weighed 50 years ago when I was discharged from the

> Army.  This puts me near the high end of normal (BMI

> 24.4).  The drugs that I take on a daily basis are

> Nature-Throid 195 mg. for thyroid replacement and Lunesta 1

> mg. for a strange condition called REM sleep Behavior

> Disorder (RBD).

> >

> > What is RBD?  Many whose hormone levels are off

> can't sleep, but I've never heard of RBD.

>

>

> REM sleep is when people have active dreams.  In order

> to keep the cave man from jumping off the edge of a cliff

> while dreaming about escaping from a saber tooth tiger

> nature arranges for a person's muscles to freeze while in

> REM sleep.  In about 1 out of 200 people (mostly older

> males) this process does not happen.  As a result while

> I dream of attacking a boogeyman I am actually leaping out

> of bed.  It hurts when I wake up on the floor. 

> People have chocked their spouses to death while both were

> asleep, so it can be a dangerous condition.  After a

> half dozen sleep doctors and a dozen potent drugs with all

> sorts of noxious side effects a doctor prescribed a rather

> benign drug, Lunesta.  An aside I have moderately

> severe arthritis.  Doctor prescribed various NSAIDs,

> some with some pretty scary side effects.  While the

> help with pain, RBD returned.  Doctor said it shouldn't

> happen and prescribed more potent drugs.  Sleep doctor

> never heard of it either but said don't take NSAIDs. 

> This has made me leery of drugs so I tend to err on the side

> of not taking them or if needed under dosing.

>

>

> >

> > > My Cholesterol is 159, HDL 65, LDL 82,

> triglycerides 50.  Doctor wants LDL under 70.

> > >

> > > My TSH is .01, FT4 1.15 (.78-2.19) FT3 4.4

> (2.77-5.27).  Doctor says I am clinically

> hyperthyroid. 

> >

> > Clinically means you have visible signs/symptoms of

> hyper, like a fast pulse, high body temperature, etc. 

> Aren't you the one who's 95 degrees?  I'm guessing your

> doc is saying you're hyperthyroid based solely on the

> TSH.  But you cannot dose by TSH if you take any med

> that contains T3.  Read this: http://tiredthyroid.com/tsh.html

> >

>

> I know this, convincing the doctor is a different

> story.  Most doctors go by TSH.

>

> > >I say for the large dose of Nature-Throid my FT3

> and FT4 numbers look good.  I am taking 2.6 mg./kg.

> verses RLC recommendation of 1.2 to 1.8 mg./kg. 

> >

> > You cannot base a dose on any formula, especially one

> on weight.  Too many other variables like cellular

> resistance, low conversion, etc. You have to use labs in

> conjunction with symptoms.  Your FT4 could go a little

> higher, since the optimal part of the FT3 and FT4 is above

> the midpoint, and your FT4 is below that.  Many also

> take their FT3 up to the top, it depends on symptoms. 

> If your pulse if 50 and your body temp is 95-96, then you

> have room to raise.

> >

> > > An increase dose disrupted sleep.  Besides

> it is already higher than recommended.

> >

> > I have seen people take as little as 1/2 grain and as

> much as 20 grains, so like I already said, there is no

> " recommended " dose.

>

> What I have read says it is probably healthier to be a

> little hypo rather than a little hyper.  I tend to

> minimize drugs that I take.  All the hypo symptoms

> aside from sore throat and hoarseness have gone, and I am

> not really sure of their cause.

>

>

>

> > 

> > > Before I started thyroid replacement my

> testosterone had been as low as 125.  Recent results

> were Testosterone 382, Free T 9.9 (9-30), Estradiol 26

> (<54), DHEA 1.4 (<.5), SHBG 48 (10-57).  Free

> testosterone has always been low.  Doctor is not

> concerned.  I am not sure what testosterone replacement

> would do to benefit me.  Comments?

> >

> > TRT is a literal pain in the butt, so unless you

> really want to deal with that . . . plus, it looks like your

> total more that doubled just bringing thyroid up? 

> Maybe you should work on getting thyroid optimal first?

>

> Testosterone replacement is probably riskier than thyroid

> replacement.  My testosterone is within 1 sigma of the

> mean for my age.  Since this is not Lake Wobegon we

> can't all be above average.

>

>

> > 

> > > My resting blood pressure ranges from 90/40 to

> 125/60.  The average (113/55) is normal. 

> >

> > I hardly think 90/40 is normal, and is close to

> pass-out levels.  Don't you get light-headed when you

> stand up?  I would want to check aldosterone and

> cortisol levels.

> >

>

> I have had them tested a number of times and they are

> always in range.  While on a heart monitor I had one

> reading of 80/43.  While asleep the BP never went above

> 100/60.  Many pulse rate readings in the low

> 50's.  The doctor said that was perfectly normal.

>

> > >The high pulse pressure is probably due to

> age.  I suffer from white coat hyper tension. 

> Cardioligist put me on a monitor which confirmed some heart

> rates in the low 50's and some hypo tension.  That,

> plus stress test and other assorted tests lead her to

> believe that I don't have a heart problem.  Hypo

> tension was a problem for me before thyroid

> replacement. 

> >

> > If you're saying your BP was even lower than these

> numbers before thyroid, then looks like you still need to

> raise thyroid more!

> > 

> > > My perusal of the internet tells me that normal

> pulse rate is 60 to 100.  Trained athletes are as low

> as 40. 

> >

> > You can find any number on the internet.  Like I

> already said, ranges are way too broad and include the

> unhealthy.  Optimum tends to be around the middle of

> the range, though some ranges are skewed left or right and

> we're unaware of it.  Yes, trained athletes can have

> very low pulse rates; they also have very high rT3. 

> This can make them somewhat hypo, and hypo can cause things

> like cancer.  Lance Armstrong could be an example of

> this at work.  There are so many variables that need to

> come together to create disease, but I personally don't

> believe a pulse in the 40s is a good thing.

> >

> > >I exercise almost every day (45 minutes average)

> by not at all athletic.  I takes me 2 hours to bike 20

> miles.  My somewhat older friend can do it in about 45

> minutes.  It takes me 27 minutes to swim a half a

> mile.  A good swimmer can do it around 10

> minutes.  While I technically have bradycardia, the

> literature I have read says it is not a problem nor is it

> treated unless it causes other symptoms.  Comments?

> >

> > Off the top of my head, the things that raise pulse

> are thyroid, adrenaline, and electrolyte imbalances.

> >

> > > The only problem that I have that may be related

> to endocrinology is a constant sore throat and recurrent

> periods of bad hoarseness.  3 ENT's and 3 GP's have

> come of with possible causes all of which have been proven

> to be incorrect.

> >

> > Do you have autoimmune thyroid disease aka

> Hashi's?  That could cause a sore throat.  Do you

> suffer from anything like depression, anxiety,

> paranoia?  Do you have a full head of hair and

> eyebrows?  Is your skin dry?  Are your heels

> peeling or smooth?  Do you feel that maybe you're still

> somewhat hypo?  If all your labs are " normal " why are

> you here?

>

> I have had the thyroid antibody tests.  The levels

> were always below the limits.  An ultrasound shows a 4

> mm. nodule.  Doctors says most people have nodules and

> they don't worry about anything less than 10 mm.  No

> mental disorders.  Full head of hair with even some

> color left.  I feel much better than I did before

> thyroid replacement.  Reason for looking for

> enlightenment is the sore throat and hoarseness.  I

> think there must be an underlying cause.  Doctor's

> response is since I have had it for 4 years and six doctors

> can find no cause it is probably not life threatening. 

> While true I don't think the answer is adequate.

>

> Thanks for the help,

>

> Ray

> >

> > Barb

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ray,

Your TT at 382 is that of a man over 100 yrs of age here read this link.

http://www.mens-hormonal-health.com/normal-testosterone-levels-in-men.html

Your not going to find stuides showing normals levels by age this is the best I

can find. And your Free T is very back because it's only 1 to 2% of your Total

and this is dam low at 382 unless your 85 to 100 yrs of age. If your Total was

say 700 then your Free T would be OK or better because it's a % of a higher

Total number. Read this link from T-Nation about how T works in your body.

http://tinyurl.com/3l3vmjf

Most good Dr.'s will put men on TRT that have morning labs lower then 400.

http://men.webmd.com/news/20070605/low-testosterone-may-up-male-mortality?ecd=wn\

l_men_072407

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: rayr_us <ray89012@...>

> Subject: Re: Low Pulse Rate & Low Blood Volume

>

> Date: Friday, April 15, 2011, 2:40 PM

>

>

>

> > > >

> > > > You know, a testosterone level of 250 is

> " normal "

> > > too.  But guys with that level usually suffer

> > > physically.  Likewise, a pulse well below 70 is

> usually

> > > from low thyroid levels.  And above 80 can also

> be from

> > > low thyroid or other cardiac conditions.

> > > >

> > > > With your pulse that low, can you tell me

> that you are

> > > of normal weight and are not on any

> pharmaceuticals for

> > > blood pressure, cholesterol, and have no fatigue

> or brain

> > > fog?

> > > >

> > > > Barb

> > >

> > > Hi Barb, and Phil in case you care to comment,

> > >

> > > I am here for the education, any help

> appreciated.  I

> > > weigh 170 which is exactly 1 pound less than I

> weighed 50

> > > years ago when I was discharged from the Army. 

> This

> > > puts me near the high end of normal (BMI 24.4). 

> The

> > > drugs that I take on a daily basis are

> Nature-Throid 195 mg.

> > > for thyroid replacement and Lunesta 1 mg. for a

> strange

> > > condition called REM sleep Behavior Disorder

> (RBD).

> > >

> > > My Cholesterol is 159, HDL 65, LDL 82,

> triglycerides

> > > 50.  Doctor wants LDL under 70.

> > >

> > > My TSH is .01, FT4 1.15 (.78-2.19) FT3 4.4

> > > (2.77-5.27).  Doctor says I am clinically

> > > hyperthyroid.  I say for the large dose of

> > > Nature-Throid my FT3 and FT4 numbers look good. 

> I am

> > > taking 2.6 mg./kg. verses RLC recommendation of

> 1.2 to 1.8

> > > mg./kg.  Comments on that appreciated.  I think

> I

> > > am on the right dosage.  When I try less hypo

> tension,

> > > fatigue, and constipation return in about 2

> weeks.  If

> > > I tried longer I am sure more symptoms would

> come

> > > back.  An increase dose disrupted sleep. 

> Besides

> > > it is already higher than recommended.

> > >

> > > Before I started thyroid replacement my

> testosterone had

> > > been as low as 125.  Recent results were

> Testosterone

> > > 382, Free T 9.9 (9-30), Estradiol 26 (<54),

> DHEA 1.4

> > > (<.5), SHBG 48 (10-57).  Free testosterone

> has

> > > always been low.  Doctor is not concerned.  I

> am

> > > not sure what testosterone replacement would do

> to benefit

> > > me.  Comments?

> > >

> > > My resting blood pressure ranges from 90/40 to

> > > 125/60.  The average (113/55) is normal.  The

> high

> > > pulse pressure is probably due to age.  I suffer

> from

> > > white coat hyper tension.  Cardioligist put me

> on a

> > > monitor which confirmed some heart rates in the

> low 50's and

> > > some hypo tension.  That, plus stress test and

> other

> > > assorted tests lead her to believe that I don't

> have a heart

> > > problem.  Hypo tension was a problem for me

> before

> > > thyroid replacement. 

> > >

> > > My perusal of the internet tells me that normal

> pulse rate

> > > is 60 to 100.  Trained athletes are as low as

> 40. 

> > > I exercise almost every day (45 minutes average)

> by not at

> > > all athletic.  I takes me 2 hours to bike 20

> > > miles.  My somewhat older friend can do it in

> about 45

> > > minutes.  It takes me 27 minutes to swim a half

> a

> > > mile.  A good swimmer can do it around 10

> > > minutes.  While I technically have bradycardia,

> the

> > > literature I have read says it is not a problem

> nor is it

> > > treated unless it causes other symptoms. 

> Comments?

> > >

> > > The only problem that I have that may be related

> to

> > > endocrinology is a constant sore throat and

> recurrent

> > > periods of bad hoarseness.  3 ENT's and 3 GP's

> have

> > > come of with possible causes all of which have

> been proven

> > > to be incorrect.

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > >

> > > Ray

> > >

> > >

> > > > > That sounds like a pretty normal pulse

> > > rate.  Normal is 60 to 100.  My resting pulse

> rate

> > > is in the low 50's.  I have seen it as low as

> 48

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

> > > > >

> > > > > You know, a testosterone level of 250 is

> > " normal "

> > > > too.  But guys with that level usually suffer

> > > > physically.  Likewise, a pulse well below 70 is

> > usually

> > > > from low thyroid levels.  And above 80 can also

> > be from

> > > > low thyroid or other cardiac conditions.

> > > > >

> > > > > With your pulse that low, can you tell me

> > that you are

> > > > of normal weight and are not on any

> > pharmaceuticals for

> > > > blood pressure, cholesterol, and have no fatigue

> > or brain

> > > > fog?

> > > > >

> > > > > Barb

> > > >

> > > > Hi Barb, and Phil in case you care to comment,

> > > >

> > > > I am here for the education, any help

> > appreciated.  I

> > > > weigh 170 which is exactly 1 pound less than I

> > weighed 50

> > > > years ago when I was discharged from the Army. 

> > This

> > > > puts me near the high end of normal (BMI 24.4). 

> > The

> > > > drugs that I take on a daily basis are

> > Nature-Throid 195 mg.

> > > > for thyroid replacement and Lunesta 1 mg. for a

> > strange

> > > > condition called REM sleep Behavior Disorder

> > (RBD).

> > > >

> > > > My Cholesterol is 159, HDL 65, LDL 82,

> > triglycerides

> > > > 50.  Doctor wants LDL under 70.

> > > >

> > > > My TSH is .01, FT4 1.15 (.78-2.19) FT3 4.4

> > > > (2.77-5.27).  Doctor says I am clinically

> > > > hyperthyroid.  I say for the large dose of

> > > > Nature-Throid my FT3 and FT4 numbers look good. 

> > I am

> > > > taking 2.6 mg./kg. verses RLC recommendation of

> > 1.2 to 1.8

> > > > mg./kg.  Comments on that appreciated.  I think

> > I

> > > > am on the right dosage.  When I try less hypo

> > tension,

> > > > fatigue, and constipation return in about 2

> > weeks.  If

> > > > I tried longer I am sure more symptoms would

> > come

> > > > back.  An increase dose disrupted sleep. 

> > Besides

> > > > it is already higher than recommended.

> > > >

> > > > Before I started thyroid replacement my

> > testosterone had

> > > > been as low as 125.  Recent results were

> > Testosterone

> > > > 382, Free T 9.9 (9-30), Estradiol 26 (<54),

> > DHEA 1.4

> > > > (<.5), SHBG 48 (10-57).  Free testosterone

> > has

> > > > always been low.  Doctor is not concerned.  I

> > am

> > > > not sure what testosterone replacement would do

> > to benefit

> > > > me.  Comments?

> > > >

> > > > My resting blood pressure ranges from 90/40 to

> > > > 125/60.  The average (113/55) is normal.  The

> > high

> > > > pulse pressure is probably due to age.  I suffer

> > from

> > > > white coat hyper tension.  Cardioligist put me

> > on a

> > > > monitor which confirmed some heart rates in the

> > low 50's and

> > > > some hypo tension.  That, plus stress test and

> > other

> > > > assorted tests lead her to believe that I don't

> > have a heart

> > > > problem.  Hypo tension was a problem for me

> > before

> > > > thyroid replacement. 

> > > >

> > > > My perusal of the internet tells me that normal

> > pulse rate

> > > > is 60 to 100.  Trained athletes are as low as

> > 40. 

> > > > I exercise almost every day (45 minutes average)

> > by not at

> > > > all athletic.  I takes me 2 hours to bike 20

> > > > miles.  My somewhat older friend can do it in

> > about 45

> > > > minutes.  It takes me 27 minutes to swim a half

> > a

> > > > mile.  A good swimmer can do it around 10

> > > > minutes.  While I technically have bradycardia,

> > the

> > > > literature I have read says it is not a problem

> > nor is it

> > > > treated unless it causes other symptoms. 

> > Comments?

> > > >

> > > > The only problem that I have that may be related

> > to

> > > > endocrinology is a constant sore throat and

> > recurrent

> > > > periods of bad hoarseness.  3 ENT's and 3 GP's

> > have

> > > > come of with possible causes all of which have

> > been proven

> > > > to be incorrect.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks

> > > >

> > > > Ray

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > That sounds like a pretty normal pulse

> > > > rate.  Normal is 60 to 100.  My resting pulse

> > rate

> > > > is in the low 50's.  I have seen it as low as

> > 48

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > >