Guest guest Posted July 13, 2010 Report Share Posted July 13, 2010 Did your estradiol increase? Estrogen binding thyroid would be the only reason I can think of. You really need to get Free T3, Free T4 and reverse T3 to get an accurate picture of where your levels are. Did you change/add any supplements or make changes to your diet? Add anything with iodine? Barb > > Has anyone's thyroid gotten worse when on trt? Thyroid was pretty stable before trt and ever since my TSH has gone from below 1 to 4-6. I was taking .250 synthroid before trt and now doc upped it to .275. I'm starting to regret starting trt. I was also taking hcg and have stopped it for now to see if that helps? Anyone with advice? I also have hashimotos and antibodies are through the roof! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2010 Report Share Posted July 14, 2010 If your T is low, you MUST go on TRT, as hypogonadism dramatically raises the risk of many serious diseases. Yes, have your estrogen checked. Be well! Regards, Crisler, DO Anti-Aging Medicine The information contained in this message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and is protected by state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately, and delete the original message. We would certainly do the same for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2010 Report Share Posted July 14, 2010 Have your freeT3 measured as well. Be well! Regards, Crisler, DO Anti-Aging Medicine The information contained in this message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and is protected by state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately, and delete the original message. We would certainly do the same for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2010 Report Share Posted July 14, 2010 I know a lot about this and I am not a Dr. but was a mod. for yrs. at http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ And I am a mod for Men Only at http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/ I can tell you I have never heard of this happening to a man going on TRT. And if your have Hashimotos doing Synthroid most don't do well on this drug it is a T4 only med and if your not converting it into T3 it can stress out your Adrenals and you end up with low Cortisol levels. People with hashimotos on NTH meds like Armour or ERFA doing enough to lower there TSH down very low the antibodies stop attacking and they stay more level and feel better. It not everyone but most do well on this. Armour is not any good they changed it but do try this. http://www.erfa-sa.com/thyroid_usa.htm Do get a 4x's in a day Saliva test to see how your Cotisol levels look. Co-Moderator Phil > From: andrenym007 <no_reply > > Subject: Thyroid worse on TRT > > Date: Tuesday, July 13, 2010, 11:28 PM > Has anyone's thyroid gotten worse > when on trt? Thyroid was pretty stable before trt and ever > since my TSH has gone from below 1 to 4-6. I was taking .250 > synthroid before trt and now doc upped it to .275. I'm > starting to regret starting trt. I was also taking hcg and > have stopped it for now to see if that helps? Anyone with > advice? I also have hashimotos and antibodies are through > the roof! > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2010 Report Share Posted July 14, 2010 I meant to post this on the forum. I follow both. I'm confused to Phil with this. But it seems testosterone interferes with my thyroid. > > > From: andrenym007 <no_reply > > > Subject: Thyroid worse on TRT > > > > Date: Tuesday, July 13, 2010, 11:28 PM > > Has anyone's thyroid gotten worse > > when on trt? Thyroid was pretty stable before trt and ever > > since my TSH has gone from below 1 to 4-6. I was taking .250 > > synthroid before trt and now doc upped it to .275. I'm > > starting to regret starting trt. I was also taking hcg and > > have stopped it for now to see if that helps? Anyone with > > advice? I also have hashimotos and antibodies are through > > the roof! > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2010 Report Share Posted July 14, 2010 You did post it at the forum and what I was trying to tell you is I never heard of Testosterone doing this but if your Estradiol levels were not tested and are high this can mess with your Thyroid meds. Still I would try an NTH meds Synthroid or T4 only meds don't work well for most people. Co-Moderator Phil > From: andrenym007 <no_reply > > Subject: Re: Thyroid worse on TRT > > Date: Wednesday, July 14, 2010, 12:30 PM > I meant to post this on the > forum. I follow both. I'm confused to Phil > with this. But it seems testosterone interferes with my > thyroid. > > > > > > > From: andrenym007 <no_reply > > > > Subject: Thyroid worse on TRT > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, July 13, 2010, 11:28 PM > > > Has anyone's thyroid gotten worse > > > when on trt? Thyroid was pretty stable before trt > and ever > > > since my TSH has gone from below 1 to 4-6. I was > taking .250 > > > synthroid before trt and now doc upped it to > .275. I'm > > > starting to regret starting trt. I was also > taking hcg and > > > have stopped it for now to see if that helps? > Anyone with > > > advice? I also have hashimotos and antibodies are > through > > > the roof! > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2010 Report Share Posted July 26, 2010 > > Has anyone's thyroid gotten worse when on trt? Thyroid was pretty stable before trt and ever since my TSH has gone from below 1 to 4-6. I was taking .250 synthroid before trt and now doc upped it to .275. I'm starting to regret starting trt. I was also taking hcg and have stopped it for now to see if that helps? Anyone with advice? I also have hashimotos and antibodies are through the roof! > Usually, when I start testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), I also have to be ready to adjust thyroid hormone because exogenous testosterone can reduce thyroid signaling. Changing one signal (as in testosterone) causes multiple downstream signaling changes in other systems. As long as one is ready to make the adjustments to thyroid hormone signaling and other signaling systems with TRT (such as estrogen signaling, adrenal signaling, nervous system, immune system, metabolism, nutrition, etc.), then one can avoid some complications with TRT, such as anxiety, fatigue, hypertension, insomnia, body aches, etc. Off the top of my head, there are several possible ways TRT can reduce thyroid hormone signaling, including the following: 1. Exogenous testosterone suppresses testicular testosterone production AND testicular thyroid releasing hormone (TRH) production. This reduces brain TSH production, lowering thyroid hormone production from the thyroid gland. 2. Exogenous testosterone may reduce liver production of thyroid binding globulin. This reduces the half-life of thyroid hormone. This leads to a reduction in available thyroid hormone. 3. Exogenous testosterone can lead to a simultaneous conversion of testosterone to estradiol. The increase in estradiol can increase liver production of thyroid binding globulin. This can lead to a reduction in free thyroid hormone levels (Free T3, Free T4). This then reduces thyroid signaling. 4. Exogenous HCG (human chorionic gonadotropin) not only increases testicular production of testosterone and sperm but also increases aromatase enzyme production. The increase in aromatase enzyme can then lead to an increase in estradiol production from testosterone. This (as noted above) can lead to a reduction in thyroid signaling. 5. Exogenous testosterone can suppress ACTH (adrenocorticotropic hormone) production from the brain. And it can directly suppress adrenal cortical activity, including cortisol production. This can then lead to an increase in norepinephrine production, then immune system inflammatory signaling. This can then shift thyroid metabolism so that T4 is converted to reverse T3 (the waste product pathway) instead of being converted to T3 (the active thyroid hormone). This can reduce both T4 levels and T3 levels, leading to a reduction in thyroid signaling. When possible, I usually prefer to consider first optimizing thyroid signaling, adrenal function, immune system function, nervous system function, metabolism and nutrition, to allow a smoother transition to testosterone replacement therapy. There are times when adding testosterone simultaneously while addressing the other systems is important to help break some positive feedback loops between systems that contribute to illness. For example, high insulin/insulin resistance/diabetes, obesity, inflammatory signaling, stress/norepinephrine signaling, and lower testosterone production can be involved in multiple positive feedback loops which can cause significant illness. Adding testosterone, simultaneously with other treatments, when it is low in such a person can help unravel the self-perpetuating signaling loops that keep a person ill. Best, Dr. no --- Any statement I make on this site is for educational purposes only and will change as medical knowledge progresses. It does not constitute medical advice, does not substitute for proper medical evaluation from physician, does not create a doctor/patient relationship or liability. If you would like medical advice, please ask your doctor. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2010 Report Share Posted July 26, 2010 Would you say that most men starting TRT have to raise or lower their thyroid meds? Or is it the usual some need to raise, some lower, everyone's different. I thought testosterone was involved in the T4 to T3 conversion process. I could've sworn I read on either the Testim or Androgel insert that men on thyroid would need to be closely monitored cause chances were they'd have to reduce their dose. Just curious. Barb > > > > Has anyone's thyroid gotten worse when on trt? Thyroid was pretty stable before trt and ever since my TSH has gone from below 1 to 4-6. I was taking .250 synthroid before trt and now doc upped it to .275. I'm starting to regret starting trt. I was also taking hcg and have stopped it for now to see if that helps? Anyone with advice? I also have hashimotos and antibodies are through the roof! > > > > > Usually, when I start testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), I also have to be ready to adjust thyroid hormone because exogenous testosterone can reduce thyroid signaling. > > Changing one signal (as in testosterone) causes multiple downstream signaling changes in other systems. As long as one is ready to make the adjustments to thyroid hormone signaling and other signaling systems with TRT (such as estrogen signaling, adrenal signaling, nervous system, immune system, metabolism, nutrition, etc.), then one can avoid some complications with TRT, such as anxiety, fatigue, hypertension, insomnia, body aches, etc. > > Off the top of my head, there are several possible ways TRT can reduce thyroid hormone signaling, including the following: > > 1. Exogenous testosterone suppresses testicular testosterone production AND testicular thyroid releasing hormone (TRH) production. This reduces brain TSH production, lowering thyroid hormone production from the thyroid gland. > > 2. Exogenous testosterone may reduce liver production of thyroid binding globulin. This reduces the half-life of thyroid hormone. This leads to a reduction in available thyroid hormone. > > 3. Exogenous testosterone can lead to a simultaneous conversion of testosterone to estradiol. The increase in estradiol can increase liver production of thyroid binding globulin. This can lead to a reduction in free thyroid hormone levels (Free T3, Free T4). This then reduces thyroid signaling. > > 4. Exogenous HCG (human chorionic gonadotropin) not only increases testicular production of testosterone and sperm but also increases aromatase enzyme production. The increase in aromatase enzyme can then lead to an increase in estradiol production from testosterone. This (as noted above) can lead to a reduction in thyroid signaling. > > 5. Exogenous testosterone can suppress ACTH (adrenocorticotropic hormone) production from the brain. And it can directly suppress adrenal cortical activity, including cortisol production. This can then lead to an increase in norepinephrine production, then immune system inflammatory signaling. This can then shift thyroid metabolism so that T4 is converted to reverse T3 (the waste product pathway) instead of being converted to T3 (the active thyroid hormone). This can reduce both T4 levels and T3 levels, leading to a reduction in thyroid signaling. > > When possible, I usually prefer to consider first optimizing thyroid signaling, adrenal function, immune system function, nervous system function, metabolism and nutrition, to allow a smoother transition to testosterone replacement therapy. > > There are times when adding testosterone simultaneously while addressing the other systems is important to help break some positive feedback loops between systems that contribute to illness. For example, high insulin/insulin resistance/diabetes, obesity, inflammatory signaling, stress/norepinephrine signaling, and lower testosterone production can be involved in multiple positive feedback loops which can cause significant illness. Adding testosterone, simultaneously with other treatments, when it is low in such a person can help unravel the self-perpetuating signaling loops that keep a person ill. > > Best, > Dr. no > > --- > Any statement I make on this site is for educational purposes only and will change as medical knowledge progresses. It does not constitute medical advice, does not substitute for proper medical evaluation from physician, does not create a doctor/patient relationship or liability. If you would like medical advice, please ask your doctor. Thank you. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2010 Report Share Posted July 26, 2010 Most often, men will have to increase the dose of thyroid hormone after starting TRT. I have yet to see a need to lower thyroid hormone in men who start TRT. Off the top of my head, one possible mechanism by which testosterone can lead to an increase in thyroid hormone is if there is significant inflammatory cytokine signaling resulting in a shift of T4 metabolism to Reverse T3 rather than T3. If exogenous testosterone helps reduce inflammatory cytokine signaling, it can then help reduce reverse T3, leading to an increase in T3 production from T4. On the other hand, increased inflammatory signaling can also lead to an increase in sympathetic nervous system norepinephrine production, i.e. stress signaling. This may then increase deiodinase enzyme production, increasing T4 to T3 conversion. If Testosterone reduces stress/norepinephrine signaling - and testosterone is usually a very calming signal unless a lot is transformed to estradiol - then the addition of exogenous testosterone would negate norepinephrine's increase in T3 production. This can possibly negating the gain from the above antiinflammatory effects of testosterone. This would lead to a wash in thyroid change from the addition of testosterone via these two mechanisms. The sum of the above and other pathway influences on thyroid hormone would determine whether or not thyroid hormone increases or decreases with the addition of exogenous testosterone. In my experience, usually, exogenous testosterone generally reduces thyroid hormone signaling. Best, Dr. no Any statement I make on this site is for educational purposes only and will change as medical knowledge progresses. It does not constitute medical advice, does not substitute for proper medical evaluation from physician, does not create a doctor/patient relationship or liability. If you would like medical advice, please ask your doctor. Thank you. > > Would you say that most men starting TRT have to raise or lower their thyroid meds? Or is it the usual some need to raise, some lower, everyone's different. I thought testosterone was involved in the T4 to T3 conversion process. I could've sworn I read on either the Testim or Androgel insert that men on thyroid would need to be closely monitored cause chances were they'd have to reduce their dose. > > Just curious. > Barb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2010 Report Share Posted July 26, 2010 Thanks for the detailed answer Dr. no. And does higher and higher estradiol bind more thyroid, making you more hypo? I'm thinking if estradiol is brought down with DIM or arimidex, it would then free up your bound thyroid, meaning you'd lower your thyroid dose. Yes? No? > > > > Would you say that most men starting TRT have to raise or lower their thyroid meds? Or is it the usual some need to raise, some lower, everyone's different. I thought testosterone was involved in the T4 to T3 conversion process. I could've sworn I read on either the Testim or Androgel insert that men on thyroid would need to be closely monitored cause chances were they'd have to reduce their dose. > > > > Just curious. > > Barb > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2010 Report Share Posted July 26, 2010 It not that estradiol binds more thyroid hormone. Estradiol increases liver production of thyroid binding globulin which binds thyroid hormone, leaving less in the free form. Reducing estradiol vis DIM or Arimidex works to a certain point, then worsens the situation. Lowering estradiol would reduce thyroid binding globulin production. This increases free thyroid hormone. However, if thyroid binding globulin is reduced excessively, then the half-life of thyroid hormone is reduced. This results in an increased breakdown of thyroid hormone, leading to a reduction in total thyroid hormone. Arimidex also has a limit in reducing estradiol. In some men, the body may compensate by increasing production of estradiol via alternative pathways when its production via the aromatase enzyme is reduced excessively. Thus there may be a ceiling in reducing estradiol after which the body uses other pathways to produce estrogen. Also other estrogens may be produced when estradiol is reduced excessively. One can't also reduce estradiol excessively before the liver compensates by increasing cholesterol production. It is a matter of balance. Estrogens are monitored more closely by the brain than testosterone in determining production of the reproductive hormones. Best, Dr. no Any statement I make on this site is for educational purposes only and will change as medical knowledge progresses. It does not constitute medical advice, does not substitute for proper medical evaluation from physician, does not create a doctor/patient relationship or liability. If you would like medical advice, please ask your doctor. Thank you. > > > > > > Would you say that most men starting TRT have to raise or lower their thyroid meds? Or is it the usual some need to raise, some lower, everyone's different. I thought testosterone was involved in the T4 to T3 conversion process. I could've sworn I read on either the Testim or Androgel insert that men on thyroid would need to be closely monitored cause chances were they'd have to reduce their dose. > > > > > > Just curious. > > > Barb > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2010 Report Share Posted July 27, 2010 I already knew it was difficult to find balance, now I know why. Thanks for the explanation. Barb > > > > > > > > Would you say that most men starting TRT have to raise or lower their thyroid meds? Or is it the usual some need to raise, some lower, everyone's different. I thought testosterone was involved in the T4 to T3 conversion process. I could've sworn I read on either the Testim or Androgel insert that men on thyroid would need to be closely monitored cause chances were they'd have to reduce their dose. > > > > > > > > Just curious. > > > > Barb > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2010 Report Share Posted July 27, 2010 Wow this is a keeper I never knew this Thank you. You know the guys that use to be at MESO, most are at Dr. 's forum they would love it if you popped in and said Hi. I put a copy of this over there this morning. http://www.musclechatroom.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=2 Co-Moderator Phil > From: drmariano <drmariano@...> > Subject: Re: Thyroid worse on TRT > > Date: Monday, July 26, 2010, 9:04 AM > > > > > > > Has anyone's thyroid gotten worse when on trt? Thyroid > was pretty stable before trt and ever since my TSH has gone > from below 1 to 4-6. I was taking .250 synthroid before trt > and now doc upped it to .275. I'm starting to regret > starting trt. I was also taking hcg and have stopped it for > now to see if that helps? Anyone with advice? I also have > hashimotos and antibodies are through the roof! > > > > > Usually, when I start testosterone replacement therapy > (TRT), I also have to be ready to adjust thyroid hormone > because exogenous testosterone can reduce thyroid > signaling. > > Changing one signal (as in testosterone) causes multiple > downstream signaling changes in other systems. As long > as one is ready to make the adjustments to thyroid hormone > signaling and other signaling systems with TRT (such as > estrogen signaling, adrenal signaling, nervous system, > immune system, metabolism, nutrition, etc.), then one can > avoid some complications with TRT, such as anxiety, fatigue, > hypertension, insomnia, body aches, etc. > > Off the top of my head, there are several possible ways TRT > can reduce thyroid hormone signaling, including the > following: > > 1. Exogenous testosterone suppresses testicular > testosterone production AND testicular thyroid releasing > hormone (TRH) production. This reduces brain TSH > production, lowering thyroid hormone production from the > thyroid gland. > > 2. Exogenous testosterone may reduce liver production of > thyroid binding globulin. This reduces the half-life > of thyroid hormone. This leads to a reduction in > available thyroid hormone. > > 3. Exogenous testosterone can lead to a simultaneous > conversion of testosterone to estradiol. The increase > in estradiol can increase liver production of thyroid > binding globulin. This can lead to a reduction in free > thyroid hormone levels (Free T3, Free T4). This then > reduces thyroid signaling. > > 4. Exogenous HCG (human chorionic gonadotropin) not only > increases testicular production of testosterone and sperm > but also increases aromatase enzyme production. The > increase in aromatase enzyme can then lead to an increase in > estradiol production from testosterone. This (as noted > above) can lead to a reduction in thyroid signaling. > > 5. Exogenous testosterone can suppress ACTH > (adrenocorticotropic hormone) production from the > brain. And it can directly suppress adrenal cortical > activity, including cortisol production. This can then > lead to an increase in norepinephrine production, then > immune system inflammatory signaling. This can then > shift thyroid metabolism so that T4 is converted to reverse > T3 (the waste product pathway) instead of being converted to > T3 (the active thyroid hormone). This can reduce both T4 > levels and T3 levels, leading to a reduction in thyroid > signaling. > > When possible, I usually prefer to consider first > optimizing thyroid signaling, adrenal function, immune > system function, nervous system function, metabolism and > nutrition, to allow a smoother transition to testosterone > replacement therapy. > > There are times when adding testosterone simultaneously > while addressing the other systems is important to help > break some positive feedback loops between systems that > contribute to illness. For example, high > insulin/insulin resistance/diabetes, obesity, inflammatory > signaling, stress/norepinephrine signaling, and lower > testosterone production can be involved in multiple positive > feedback loops which can cause significant illness. > Adding testosterone, simultaneously with other treatments, > when it is low in such a person can help unravel the > self-perpetuating signaling loops that keep a person ill. > > Best, > Dr. no > > --- > Any statement I make on this site is for educational > purposes only and will change as medical knowledge > progresses. It does not constitute medical advice, > does not substitute for proper medical evaluation from > physician, does not create a doctor/patient relationship or > liability. If you would like medical advice, please ask your > doctor. Thank you. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2010 Report Share Posted July 27, 2010 I'm going to show this to my doctor. So I guess the answer is to raise thyroid meds? > > > > > > Has anyone's thyroid gotten worse when on trt? Thyroid > > was pretty stable before trt and ever since my TSH has gone > > from below 1 to 4-6. I was taking .250 synthroid before trt > > and now doc upped it to .275. I'm starting to regret > > starting trt. I was also taking hcg and have stopped it for > > now to see if that helps? Anyone with advice? I also have > > hashimotos and antibodies are through the roof! > > > > > > > > > Usually, when I start testosterone replacement therapy > > (TRT), I also have to be ready to adjust thyroid hormone > > because exogenous testosterone can reduce thyroid > > signaling.� > > > > Changing one signal (as in testosterone) causes multiple > > downstream signaling changes in other systems.� As long > > as one is ready to make the adjustments to thyroid hormone > > signaling and other signaling systems with TRT (such as > > estrogen signaling, adrenal signaling, nervous system, > > immune system, metabolism, nutrition, etc.), then one can > > avoid some complications with TRT, such as anxiety, fatigue, > > hypertension, insomnia, body aches, etc.� > > > > Off the top of my head, there are several possible ways TRT > > can reduce thyroid hormone signaling, including the > > following: > > > > 1. Exogenous testosterone suppresses testicular > > testosterone production AND testicular thyroid releasing > > hormone (TRH) production.� This reduces brain TSH > > production, lowering thyroid hormone production from the > > thyroid gland. > > > > 2. Exogenous testosterone may reduce liver production of > > thyroid binding globulin.� This reduces the half-life > > of thyroid hormone.� This leads to a reduction in > > available thyroid hormone. > > > > 3. Exogenous testosterone can lead to a simultaneous > > conversion of testosterone to estradiol.� The increase > > in estradiol can increase liver production of thyroid > > binding globulin.� This can lead to a reduction in free > > thyroid hormone levels (Free T3, Free T4).� This then > > reduces thyroid signaling. > > > > 4. Exogenous HCG (human chorionic gonadotropin) not only > > increases testicular production of testosterone and sperm > > but also increases aromatase enzyme production.� The > > increase in aromatase enzyme can then lead to an increase in > > estradiol production from testosterone. This (as noted > > above) can lead to a reduction in thyroid signaling. > > > > 5. Exogenous testosterone can suppress ACTH > > (adrenocorticotropic hormone) production from the > > brain.� And it can directly suppress adrenal cortical > > activity, including cortisol production.� This can then > > lead to an increase in norepinephrine production, then > > immune system inflammatory signaling.� This can then > > shift thyroid metabolism so that T4 is converted to reverse > > T3 (the waste product pathway) instead of being converted to > > T3 (the active thyroid hormone). This can reduce both T4 > > levels and T3 levels, leading to a reduction in thyroid > > signaling. > > > > When possible, I usually prefer to consider first > > optimizing thyroid signaling, adrenal function, immune > > system function, nervous system function, metabolism and > > nutrition, to allow a smoother transition to testosterone > > replacement therapy. > > > > There are times when adding testosterone simultaneously > > while addressing the other systems is important to help > > break some positive feedback loops between systems that > > contribute to illness.� For example, high > > insulin/insulin resistance/diabetes, obesity, inflammatory > > signaling, stress/norepinephrine signaling, and lower > > testosterone production can be involved in multiple positive > > feedback loops which can cause significant illness.� > > Adding testosterone, simultaneously with other treatments, > > when it is low in such a person can help unravel the > > self-perpetuating signaling loops that keep a person ill. > > > > Best, > > Dr. no > > > > --- > > Any statement I make on this site is for educational > > purposes only and will change as medical knowledge > > progresses.� It does not constitute medical advice, > > does not substitute for proper medical evaluation from > > physician, does not create a doctor/patient relationship or > > liability. If you would like medical advice, please ask your > > doctor. Thank you. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2010 Report Share Posted July 27, 2010 Yes. I was on Synthroid 50mcg before and after I started my Test Cyp I had to gradually increase my Synthroid dose to 75mcg and now to 88mcg. Dont know if I have to increase more. Joe > > > > > > > > Would you say that most men starting TRT have to raise or lower their thyroid meds? Or is it the usual some need to raise, some lower, everyone's different. I thought testosterone was involved in the T4 to T3 conversion process. I could've sworn I read on either the Testim or Androgel insert that men on thyroid would need to be closely monitored cause chances were they'd have to reduce their dose. > > > > > > > > Just curious. > > > > Barb > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2010 Report Share Posted July 27, 2010 I have a big problem with Estradio and take Arimidex everyday to keep it down. I never drive it to low most of my labs are still on the high side 27 pg/ml with a SHBG of 18 to 20. I am glad you posted this I worry about my Estradiol levels. My Dr. told me last Tue. it's my Estradiol not my heart that is making me hold so much water. So he told me to take .5 mgs every M, W and F the .25 mgs the days in between. I was doing .25 mgs everyday and labs are that high. It's been a week now and I lost about 9 lbs of water. I am now on GH .15mgs at bedtime I was on .3 mgs but this dose was to much. My Thyroid on this .3 mgs made my Thyroid go back to work I was on 4 grains of Armour when we figured this out we started lowering my dose of Armour until I was off it. Then I had to stop the GH dose was to high now I have been back on it 2 months and when I went back on GH we added 250 mcgs of Synthroid because my T4 both total and Free were to low. So going on the Synthroid 250 mcgs. with HGH my Thyroid looks good TSH came down from 5.27 to 1.91 My Dr. took me off the Chol. drugs Crestor I am having a lot of sides with joint and muscle pain. T4 (Thyroxine) is up from 6.9 to 9.8 Free T4 is up from .8 to 1.2 Free T3 is up from 285 to 305. T3 Total is up from 100 to 109 RT3 up from 34 to 49 we are not going to address this for now. We are doing labs again in 6 weeks to see how Estradiol looks and Thyroid we need to keep an eye on my Thyroid so we can see if being on GH will burn it out. Co-Moderator Phil > From: drmariano <drmariano@...> > Subject: Re: Thyroid worse on TRT > > Date: Tuesday, July 27, 2010, 12:52 AM > > It not that estradiol binds more thyroid hormone. > Estradiol increases liver production of thyroid binding > globulin which binds thyroid hormone, leaving less in the > free form. > > Reducing estradiol vis DIM or Arimidex works to a certain > point, then worsens the situation. > > Lowering estradiol would reduce thyroid binding globulin > production. This increases free thyroid hormone. > However, if thyroid binding globulin is reduced excessively, > then the half-life of thyroid hormone is reduced. This > results in an increased breakdown of thyroid hormone, > leading to a reduction in total thyroid hormone. > > Arimidex also has a limit in reducing estradiol. In some > men, the body may compensate by increasing production of > estradiol via alternative pathways when its production via > the aromatase enzyme is reduced excessively. Thus > there may be a ceiling in reducing estradiol after which the > body uses other pathways to produce estrogen. Also > other estrogens may be produced when estradiol is reduced > excessively. One can't also reduce estradiol > excessively before the liver compensates by increasing > cholesterol production. > > It is a matter of balance. Estrogens are monitored > more closely by the brain than testosterone in determining > production of the reproductive hormones. > > Best, > > Dr. no > > Any statement I make on this site is for educational > purposes only and will change as medical knowledge > progresses. It does not constitute medical advice, > does not substitute for proper medical evaluation from > physician, does not create a doctor/patient relationship or > liability. If you would like medical advice, please ask your > doctor. Thank you. > > > > > > > > > > Would you say that most men starting TRT > have to raise or lower their thyroid meds? Or is it > the usual some need to raise, some lower, everyone's > different. I thought testosterone was involved in the > T4 to T3 conversion process. I could've sworn I read > on either the Testim or Androgel insert that men on thyroid > would need to be closely monitored cause chances were they'd > have to reduce their dose. > > > > > > > > Just curious. > > > > Barb > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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