Re: 35..Low Test..Questions

[Guest guest]

Hi ruca4life and welcome,

One thing looks odd to me is your fasting glucose at 59 this is low so you might

have Adrenal Fatigue and with this your Thyroid can be low. The same of all

this is it might be due to your Martial Arts training. As we age your 35

holding down a full time job and doing this if your not getting the recovery

rest your body needs it gets stressed and your Cortisol levels will fall from

this stress it over works your Adrenals and as you push your self to keep going

it gets worse. The best way to test this is to do a 4 x's in a day Saliva test

your Cortisol levels should be in the high end of the range in the morning going

down lower by bedtime. If you rhythm is off you going to feel dam bad. Now

what came first the low testosterone or AF if you have this.

So what I am saying is your Dr. should have done a mess of testing to find out

why your Testosterone levels are low. Going on Gels is for life if you keep

doing them.

I feel you need to call your Dr. and stop this starting dose of gel and find out

why your low if it's over training in time as you back off it your body will

recover. I see so much in me between the ages of 20 to 40 men want to get in

shape and over do it and end up sick with low hormones.

One big problem with low Cortisol levels is low sugar some of us will wake up in

the middle of the night in a sweat enough to make the bed even wet from there

sugar falling do to low Cortisol from Adrenal Fatigue.

I would get all the testing in this link if you can pay for it or your health

care will pay for it. You need to find out why your low if you fix it in most

men there Testosterone levels will come back up.

In this link are labs I tell men to get adding to this Total T3 and T4 for

Thyroid.

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=5 & t=7059

Men with low Testosterone also lose there sex life some don't have a libido

anymore and some get ED most of this is due to higher levels of Estradiol so

test this also in some men if it's high it will cause low Testosterone. The

mans brain sees high levels of Estradiol as high Testosterone because it's made

from Testosterone so with high levels of Estradiol the brain will see this as

Testosterone being to high and it will slow down sending the message of LH and

FSH to the Testis and your Testosterone levels fall. Just getting this

Estradiol level down to about 20 pg/ml his Testosterone can come back up some

200 to 300 points and he does not need TRT.

Things like high Prolactin can lower your levels. High Iron levels eating to

much SOY and or drinking a lot of SOY milk will look to your body like you have

high levels of Estradiol and your T levels can fall.

Bottom line here is find out why your low and it's hard to do this most Dr.'s

are not up on this.

Go to Dr. 's site www.allthingsmale.com and read TRT: A Recipe for Success

in this are labs you need and why.

In this link it's full of good info.

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=450553

In this link it talks about how high Estradiol levels will lower a mans T levels

it is about older men but I see this in younger men.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174

In this link it's for women trying to become men but it's full of good info

about TRT and the diff. types of meds you can use if you need them.

http://www.ftmguide.org/ttypes.html#cypionate

And this link is great tells all you need to know about this problem.

http://www.griffinmedical.com/male_hormone_modulation_therapy.html

One last link this is about Adrenals and Thyroid in this you can find a 4x's in

a day Saliva test.

And if you have trouble sleeping down at the bottom it talks about why.

http://livingnetwork.co.za/hormones/adrenal-fatigue/

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: forced2fish <ruca4life@...>

> Subject: 35..Low Test..Questions

>

> Date: Sunday, June 13, 2010, 4:05 PM

> Hey everyone..I apologize in advance

> in that I'm sure that some of what I am going to ask can be

> looked up here. With that being said I have looked up a ton

> of information on low test and I'm still slightly confused

> on some things.

>

> I guess my main question is this.....I just had extensive

> blood work done. My low/off areas were Testosterone: 278,

> Free test %: 2.8, Free test #: 78 and Glucose 59. I'm 35,

> very healthy overall, have trained MMA, BJJ for 4 years and

> have been in very good shape as recent as 6 months ago (I

> fell off a little lately with work/school/tests). Even when

> I was in great shape I always felt tired...had recovery

> issues...etc...etc...so I suspect that I have been having

> issues for quite a while (years). I went to a lung doctor a

> couple of weeks ago with a shortness of breath issue and

> ended up having a lot of blood work done. The doc put me on

> androgel, and I'm 5 days into it and don't think I'm feeling

> anything yet. Here is where my questions start....

>

> My doc does not know much about this as this is not his

> specialty. I want to get the right treatment but not f

> myself up in the process. Is there a general guideline that

> someone can point me to that lists out the best options?

> Example: 2 shots per week...plus..plus..plus...Basically

> just an outline of what I should do. Also, if I stay with

> androgel is there any way to not spend so much on it being

> that I am uninsured? Going through CVS would cost me $500 a

> month!! A think Costco has it cheaper but I'm not sure as

> their " labels " on the price checker don't really make sense

> to me.

>

> Also...At my age/activity level should I just try a PCT

> type treatment to maybe jump start my test again? If I did

> have success with that would it potentially be a big waste

> as I may go from say 278 to 450, which may be a significant

> jump but still low for my age and activity level?

>

> Thanks in advance for any advice!

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Hey everyone..I apologize in advance in that I'm sure that some of what I am

going to ask can be looked up here. With that being said I have looked up a ton

of information on low test and I'm still slightly confused on some things.

>

> I guess my main question is this.....I just had extensive blood work done. My

low/off areas were Testosterone: 278, Free test %: 2.8, Free test #: 78 and

Glucose 59. I'm 35, very healthy overall...

Actually your very low T is not too healthy.

At your age it would be best to determine the cause of low T and treat the

cause. This may not be possible with no insurance or limited funds. Just

considering TRT, your least expensive Rx route are T shots. You should also add

hCG but you can buy from India to keep the costs down. Many find T shots

2x/week to be beneficial.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the initial information. I will read through all the links that you

posted. In the mean time here are a few things that I want to add....

I kind of mentioned it in my first post, but I have pretty much been out of

training for 5-6 months. I have recently started training again, but for sure

have not pushed myself hard. In the past, even when I was in very good shape, I

did notice that if I pushed myself too hard over a period of time, I would get

sick (usually a cough). Also, I do have most of the symptoms of low test

including the ed issues that you mentioned. I have self medicated with tadalifil

over the years, but for sure have issue and can't remember the last time I had a

drive!

As far as my thyroid...My T4 total is 7.0 and T4 free is 15.5. My T3 uptake is

30.5 and TSH is 2.76. All of those seem to be in range according to the

paperwork that I have.

As far as the adrenal tests...I may have them. Do you know what the letters

would be on my blood test results? There are a million things on there that I

don't know!haha

Last night I had a doctor recommended to me that specializes in t issues. It

sounds like I need to get with him ASAP. In the mean time, should I keep going

with the t gel? Could 2 weeks or 1 month of it mess me up bad? Could I just

counter that with PCT if need be?

I have no clue why I shut down. I have thought of doing a round or two of juice

in the past but NEVER have. I don't have any of the normal issues that causes

low t either. My main issue right now is going to be insurance. I'm in between

right now but am ready to get on a new plan, but this could take a while to kick

in and in the mean time I'm tired of feeling like crap!haha

I really appreciate all the advice and will start reading through all the links.

Randall

>

> > From: forced2fish <ruca4life@...>

> > Subject: 35..Low Test..Questions

> >

> > Date: Sunday, June 13, 2010, 4:05 PM

> > Hey everyone..I apologize in advance

> > in that I'm sure that some of what I am going to ask can be

> > looked up here. With that being said I have looked up a ton

> > of information on low test and I'm still slightly confused

> > on some things.

> >

> > I guess my main question is this.....I just had extensive

> > blood work done. My low/off areas were Testosterone: 278,

> > Free test %: 2.8, Free test #: 78 and Glucose 59. I'm 35,

> > very healthy overall, have trained MMA, BJJ for 4 years and

> > have been in very good shape as recent as 6 months ago (I

> > fell off a little lately with work/school/tests). Even when

> > I was in great shape I always felt tired...had recovery

> > issues...etc...etc...so I suspect that I have been having

> > issues for quite a while (years). I went to a lung doctor a

> > couple of weeks ago with a shortness of breath issue and

> > ended up having a lot of blood work done. The doc put me on

> > androgel, and I'm 5 days into it and don't think I'm feeling

> > anything yet. Here is where my questions start....

> >

> > My doc does not know much about this as this is not his

> > specialty. I want to get the right treatment but not f

> > myself up in the process. Is there a general guideline that

> > someone can point me to that lists out the best options?

> > Example: 2 shots per week...plus..plus..plus...Basically

> > just an outline of what I should do. Also, if I stay with

> > androgel is there any way to not spend so much on it being

> > that I am uninsured? Going through CVS would cost me $500 a

> > month!! A think Costco has it cheaper but I'm not sure as

> > their " labels " on the price checker don't really make sense

> > to me.

> >

> > Also...At my age/activity level should I just try a PCT

> > type treatment to maybe jump start my test again? If I did

> > have success with that would it potentially be a big waste

> > as I may go from say 278 to 450, which may be a significant

> > jump but still low for my age and activity level?

> >

> > Thanks in advance for any advice!

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Randall with your labs the test for Cortisol would say Cortisol my labs are with

Quest if you know the name of your lab that did your blood work.  You might be

able to look up the code #.  If not call and ask your Dr. that did this test.  I

can't tell about your Thyroid I need the units and the ranges.  My labs for Free

T4 don't even go that high so the units help.

This Dr. you feel you need to get with call him and ask if he sees a lot of men

with low testosterone and if he checks to see if one is Primary meaning your

testis can't make T or your Secondary meaning your Pituitary dose not tell your

testis to make T.  Ask if he tests Estradiol and if one is high dose he use

Arimidex to get the levels down.  Also ask if he treats men that are Secondary

with HCG what this does is acts like the LH message that your Pituitary sends to

your Testis to tell time to make more T so it makes your Testis make T.

If you feel like your true Primary or Secondary stay on the Gel and just before

your out of it switch to shots starting with 100 mgs / week do them your self a

10 ml. vial of 200mgs/ ml will last you about 19 weeks for just under $100.

As for HCG you can't find it easy because of the HCG Diet that is out there.  So

we get HCG from over Seas if you want to try it let me know.  One thing about

HCG is when you stop using it your not shut down like you are from

Testosterone.  Some men that are Secondary do 100 IU's in a shot everyday.

I would say you have about 4 to 6 weeks that  you can do Androgel with out being

shut down.  But if you can't afford the cost to figure this out you need to feel

better to work so you need to think hard about what you need to do.  Most men

that come here were all ready on TRT and never were able to find out why they

were low.

I am one of them I was on TRT 23 yrs being told I am Primary about 5 yrs ago I

add HCG to my TRT and my labs for Total T doubled this is how I figured out I am

Secondary Hypopituitary it was after this I get the treatment I needed and now I

feel much better.  You can read my story at this link.

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=5 & t=9239

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: forced2fish <ruca4life@...>

> Subject: Re: 35..Low Test..Questions

>

> Date: Sunday, June 13, 2010, 7:06 PM

> Thanks for the initial information. I

> will read through all the links that you posted. In the mean

> time here are a few things that I want to add....

> I kind of mentioned it in my first post, but I have pretty

> much been out of training for 5-6 months. I have recently

> started training again, but for sure have not pushed myself

> hard. In the past, even when I was in very good shape, I did

> notice that if I pushed myself too hard over a period of

> time, I would get sick (usually a cough). Also, I do have

> most of the symptoms of low test including the ed issues

> that you mentioned. I have self medicated with tadalifil

> over the years, but for sure have issue and can't remember

> the last time I had a drive!

> As far as my thyroid...My T4 total is 7.0 and T4 free is

> 15.5. My T3 uptake is 30.5 and TSH is 2.76. All of those

> seem to be in range according to the paperwork that I have.

> As far as the adrenal tests...I may have them. Do you know

> what the letters would be on my blood test results? There

> are a million things on there that I don't know!haha

>

> Last night I had a doctor recommended to me that

> specializes in t issues. It sounds like I need to get with

> him ASAP. In the mean time, should I keep going with the t

> gel? Could 2 weeks or 1 month of it mess me up bad? Could I

> just counter that with PCT if need be?

>

> I have no clue why I shut down. I have thought of doing a

> round or two of juice in the past but NEVER have. I don't

> have any of the normal issues that causes low t either. My

> main issue right now is going to be insurance. I'm in

> between right now but am ready to get on a new plan, but

> this could take a while to kick in and in the mean time I'm

> tired of feeling like crap!haha

>

> I really appreciate all the advice and will start reading

> through all the links.

>

> Randall

>

>

> >

> > > From: forced2fish <ruca4life@...>

> > > Subject: 35..Low Test..Questions

> > >

> > > Date: Sunday, June 13, 2010, 4:05 PM

> > > Hey everyone..I apologize in advance

> > > in that I'm sure that some of what I am going to

> ask can be

> > > looked up here. With that being said I have

> looked up a ton

> > > of information on low test and I'm still slightly

> confused

> > > on some things.

> > >

> > > I guess my main question is this.....I just had

> extensive

> > > blood work done. My low/off areas were

> Testosterone: 278,

> > > Free test %: 2.8, Free test #: 78 and Glucose 59.

> I'm 35,

> > > very healthy overall, have trained MMA, BJJ for 4

> years and

> > > have been in very good shape as recent as 6

> months ago (I

> > > fell off a little lately with work/school/tests).

> Even when

> > > I was in great shape I always felt tired...had

> recovery

> > > issues...etc...etc...so I suspect that I have

> been having

> > > issues for quite a while (years). I went to a

> lung doctor a

> > > couple of weeks ago with a shortness of breath

> issue and

> > > ended up having a lot of blood work done. The doc

> put me on

> > > androgel, and I'm 5 days into it and don't think

> I'm feeling

> > > anything yet. Here is where my questions

> start....

> > >

> > > My doc does not know much about this as this is

> not his

> > > specialty. I want to get the right treatment but

> not f

> > > myself up in the process. Is there a general

> guideline that

> > > someone can point me to that lists out the best

> options?

> > > Example: 2 shots per

> week...plus..plus..plus...Basically

> > > just an outline of what I should do. Also, if I

> stay with

> > > androgel is there any way to not spend so much on

> it being

> > > that I am uninsured? Going through CVS would cost

> me $500 a

> > > month!! A think Costco has it cheaper but I'm not

> sure as

> > > their " labels " on the price checker don't really

> make sense

> > > to me.

> > >

> > > Also...At my age/activity level should I just try

> a PCT

> > > type treatment to maybe jump start my test again?

> If I did

> > > have success with that would it potentially be a

> big waste

> > > as I may go from say 278 to 450, which may be a

> significant

> > > jump but still low for my age and activity

> level?

> > >

> > > Thanks in advance for any advice!

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Hey Phil..Thanks for all of your great help and advice. I went and saw a

specialist this morning and he got me all lined up. He gave me all of my options

but I decided on HCG 250 unit (I think he is bumping that to 500) .25cc 3xweekly

and test 200mg 1cc 0.5 2xweekly. So if I remember right that = 100 mg 2xweekly.

He has everything made and really cheap prices. If anyone needs a really good

doc in South Florida let me know. I'm leaving out all the boring details but we

discussed a ton of stuff and this is what we came up with. He spent almost 2

hours with me and there was no rush at all. Also, the injection/s wasn't near as

bad as I expected!!haha...Thanks again and I look forward to becoming a

semi-active part of the group. Oh and 1 more thing....I'm going back in 1 month

for all new bloodwork, and will go from there.

Randall

> > >

> > > > From: forced2fish <ruca4life@>

> > > > Subject: 35..Low Test..Questions

> > > >

> > > > Date: Sunday, June 13, 2010, 4:05 PM

> > > > Hey everyone..I apologize in advance

> > > > in that I'm sure that some of what I am going to

> > ask can be

> > > > looked up here. With that being said I have

> > looked up a ton

> > > > of information on low test and I'm still slightly

> > confused

> > > > on some things.

> > > >

> > > > I guess my main question is this.....I just had

> > extensive

> > > > blood work done. My low/off areas were

> > Testosterone: 278,

> > > > Free test %: 2.8, Free test #: 78 and Glucose 59.

> > I'm 35,

> > > > very healthy overall, have trained MMA, BJJ for 4

> > years and

> > > > have been in very good shape as recent as 6

> > months ago (I

> > > > fell off a little lately with work/school/tests).

> > Even when

> > > > I was in great shape I always felt tired...had

> > recovery

> > > > issues...etc...etc...so I suspect that I have

> > been having

> > > > issues for quite a while (years). I went to a

> > lung doctor a

> > > > couple of weeks ago with a shortness of breath

> > issue and

> > > > ended up having a lot of blood work done. The doc

> > put me on

> > > > androgel, and I'm 5 days into it and don't think

> > I'm feeling

> > > > anything yet. Here is where my questions

> > start....

> > > >

> > > > My doc does not know much about this as this is

> > not his

> > > > specialty. I want to get the right treatment but

> > not f

> > > > myself up in the process. Is there a general

> > guideline that

> > > > someone can point me to that lists out the best

> > options?

> > > > Example: 2 shots per

> > week...plus..plus..plus...Basically

> > > > just an outline of what I should do. Also, if I

> > stay with

> > > > androgel is there any way to not spend so much on

> > it being

> > > > that I am uninsured? Going through CVS would cost

> > me $500 a

> > > > month!! A think Costco has it cheaper but I'm not

> > sure as

> > > > their " labels " on the price checker don't really

> > make sense

> > > > to me.

> > > >

> > > > Also...At my age/activity level should I just try

> > a PCT

> > > > type treatment to maybe jump start my test again?

> > If I did

> > > > have success with that would it potentially be a

> > big waste

> > > > as I may go from say 278 to 450, which may be a

> > significant

> > > > jump but still low for my age and activity

> > level?

> > > >

> > > > Thanks in advance for any advice!

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

This is great 100 mgs 2x's a week is a lot to start men should start lower and

work there way up this way they don't have that crash feeling if they need to

lower there dose. But it's all good go for it.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: forced2fish <ruca4life@...>

> Subject: Re: 35..Low Test..Questions

>

> Date: Thursday, June 17, 2010, 3:30 PM

> Hey Phil..Thanks for all of your

> great help and advice. I went and saw a specialist this

> morning and he got me all lined up. He gave me all of my

> options but I decided on HCG 250 unit (I think he is bumping

> that to 500) .25cc 3xweekly and test 200mg 1cc 0.5 2xweekly.

> So if I remember right that = 100 mg 2xweekly. He has

> everything made and really cheap prices. If anyone needs a

> really good doc in South Florida let me know. I'm leaving

> out all the boring details but we discussed a ton of stuff

> and this is what we came up with. He spent almost 2 hours

> with me and there was no rush at all. Also, the injection/s

> wasn't near as bad as I expected!!haha...Thanks again and I

> look forward to becoming a semi-active part of the group. Oh

> and 1 more thing....I'm going back in 1 month for all new

> bloodwork, and will go from there.

>

> Randall

>

>

> > > >

> > > > > From: forced2fish <ruca4life@>

> > > > > Subject: 35..Low

> Test..Questions

> > > > >

> > > > > Date: Sunday, June 13, 2010, 4:05 PM

> > > > > Hey everyone..I apologize in advance

> > > > > in that I'm sure that some of what I am

> going to

> > > ask can be

> > > > > looked up here. With that being said I

> have

> > > looked up a ton

> > > > > of information on low test and I'm

> still slightly

> > > confused

> > > > > on some things.

> > > > >

> > > > > I guess my main question is this.....I

> just had

> > > extensive

> > > > > blood work done. My low/off areas were

> > > Testosterone: 278,

> > > > > Free test %: 2.8, Free test #: 78 and

> Glucose 59.

> > > I'm 35,

> > > > > very healthy overall, have trained MMA,

> BJJ for 4

> > > years and

> > > > > have been in very good shape as recent

> as 6

> > > months ago (I

> > > > > fell off a little lately with

> work/school/tests).

> > > Even when

> > > > > I was in great shape I always felt

> tired...had

> > > recovery

> > > > > issues...etc...etc...so I suspect that

> I have

> > > been having

> > > > > issues for quite a while (years). I

> went to a

> > > lung doctor a

> > > > > couple of weeks ago with a shortness of

> breath

> > > issue and

> > > > > ended up having a lot of blood work

> done. The doc

> > > put me on

> > > > > androgel, and I'm 5 days into it and

> don't think

> > > I'm feeling

> > > > > anything yet. Here is where my

> questions

> > > start....

> > > > >

> > > > > My doc does not know much about this as

> this is

> > > not his

> > > > > specialty. I want to get the right

> treatment but

> > > not f

> > > > > myself up in the process. Is there a

> general

> > > guideline that

> > > > > someone can point me to that lists out

> the best

> > > options?

> > > > > Example: 2 shots per

> > > week...plus..plus..plus...Basically

> > > > > just an outline of what I should do.

> Also, if I

> > > stay with

> > > > > androgel is there any way to not spend

> so much on

> > > it being

> > > > > that I am uninsured? Going through CVS

> would cost

> > > me $500 a

> > > > > month!! A think Costco has it cheaper

> but I'm not

> > > sure as

> > > > > their " labels " on the price checker

> don't really

> > > make sense

> > > > > to me.

> > > > >

> > > > > Also...At my age/activity level should

> I just try

> > > a PCT

> > > > > type treatment to maybe jump start my

> test again?

> > > If I did

> > > > > have success with that would it

> potentially be a

> > > big waste

> > > > > as I may go from say 278 to 450, which

> may be a

> > > significant

> > > > > jump but still low for my age and

> activity

> > > level?

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks in advance for any advice!

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

I agree, I tried 100mg E3D and it put me over the top of the range and that

was without hCG. Randall, that isn't Dr Dach that your seeing is it.

Brett

Re: 35..Low Test..Questions

>

> Date: Thursday, June 17, 2010, 3:30 PM

> Hey Phil..Thanks for all of your

> great help and advice. I went and saw a specialist this

> morning and he got me all lined up. He gave me all of my

> options but I decided on HCG 250 unit (I think he is bumping

> that to 500) .25cc 3xweekly and test 200mg 1cc 0.5 2xweekly.

> So if I remember right that = 100 mg 2xweekly. He has

> everything made and really cheap prices. If anyone needs a

> really good doc in South Florida let me know. I'm leaving

> out all the boring details but we discussed a ton of stuff

> and this is what we came up with. He spent almost 2 hours

> with me and there was no rush at all. Also, the injection/s

> wasn't near as bad as I expected!!haha...Thanks again and I

> look forward to becoming a semi-active part of the group. Oh

> and 1 more thing....I'm going back in 1 month for all new

> bloodwork, and will go from there.

>

> Randall

[Guest guest]

Brett 100 mgs every 3 days is a lot I was doing 80 mgs every 3 days my levels

were if the upper 800's on this with HCG. I have cut this back being on HGH to

70 mgs every 3 days. Doing 80 mgs every 3 days is about the same as 200 mgs a

week. Doing the shots every 3 days helps hold down Estradiol and keep one more

leveled.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> > From: forced2fish <ruca4life@...>

> > Subject: Re: 35..Low Test..Questions

> >

> > Date: Thursday, June 17, 2010, 3:30 PM

> > Hey Phil..Thanks for all of your

> > great help and advice. I went and saw a specialist

> this

> > morning and he got me all lined up. He gave me all of

> my

> > options but I decided on HCG 250 unit (I think he is

> bumping

> > that to 500) .25cc 3xweekly and test 200mg 1cc 0.5

> 2xweekly.

> > So if I remember right that = 100 mg 2xweekly. He has

> > everything made and really cheap prices. If anyone

> needs a

> > really good doc in South Florida let me know. I'm

> leaving

> > out all the boring details but we discussed a ton of

> stuff

> > and this is what we came up with. He spent almost 2

> hours

> > with me and there was no rush at all. Also, the

> injection/s

> > wasn't near as bad as I expected!!haha...Thanks again

> and I

> > look forward to becoming a semi-active part of the

> group. Oh

> > and 1 more thing....I'm going back in 1 month for all

> new

> > bloodwork, and will go from there.

> >

> > Randall

>

>

>

>

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