Guest guest Posted May 1, 2002 Report Share Posted May 1, 2002 First of all, if the swelling has been present since puberty (not at all uncommon), then this may not be quite the same thing as the cyst-like growths adults get from aromatization. Possibly you have only swelling of the glands, which should go back down once your estradiol levels are lowered. However, that is for a doctor to determine. If you want to find out whether or not you need surgery, make an appointment with a board certified plastic and reconstructive surgeon in your area. The surgery can be done fairly easily. As far as the estrogen to testosterone ratio, you will need to get this under control to solve your problems. Arimidex is the best anti-aromatase, but it's expensive (We have sent off an order to Canada because you can save $80 on every order of 30 tablets. Interested parties can take a look at: http://www.crossborderpharmacy.com They have all sorts of stuff. I can't really vouch for their service yet since we just sent them an order today. However, I heard about these deals on the national news and then did a Net search. There is another Canadian mail order pharmacy at: http://www.doctorsolve.com Shipping is higher but when all is said and done [fees, etc], the price is about the same). If your doctor seems unsure or unwilling to provide you with the necessary treatment to get your hormone levels into the proper ratio for a man your age, either ask him/her for a referral to a specialist or visit www.lef.org (Life Extension Foundation) and look at their list of doctors who will treat patients with hormone imbalances. Rosemary Wedderburn-Vernon Marina del Rey, CA IronRoses@... http://home.earthlink.net/~dogbiscuit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2002 Report Share Posted May 2, 2002 It was written: > I would rather take some oral medicines/drugs - I have read on the > net that some drugs like Clomid, Arimidex or Nolvadex could help, but I could > not find out about side-effects and all of these drugs. > > I am hoping that people in this group who have knowledge on the above > could guide me.> ------- Clomid <http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/clomiphenesystemic202151.html> Arimidex <http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/anastrozolesystemic203659.html> Nolvadex <http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/tamoxifensystemic202545.html> <http://www.druginfonet.com/tamoxfen.htm> Also the link below has some links to other pages you can search for info. <http://www.coreynahman.com/druginfopage.html> Tony Szpara East Haven, CT * Don't forget to sign all letters with full name and city of residence if you wish them to be published! * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 Several foods help prevent estrogen conversion (aromatization) from testosterone - purple grapes and white button mushrooms are known to help lower aromatase thereby reduce the male production of estrogen. Chrysin is a herbal supplement sold in health food stores that also helps. Calcium D Glucurate reduces the number of estrogen receptors and increases glucuronidation by the liver - which the main way estrogen is removed from the body. Anglen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 In a message dated 10/9/03 6:50:33 PM Central Daylight Time, skrndc1@... writes: << on testosterone/estridiol ratios >> Most of the estrogenic problems in men is not from estradiol, but rather estrone. Estrone results from androstenedione conversion and estradiol is from conversion from testosterone . Anglen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 Thank you, Phil! I've been looking for an article on the male angle.....so to speak. Sunny ;'-) gynecomastia Sorry, I forget who placed the gynecomastia thread on the listserve last week, but here is a related commentary on testosterone/estridiol ratios in men from Dr. Lee. Thought you might find it interesting if not directly pertinent to your question. http://store./johnleemd/hormonesformen.html W. Snell, D.C. 127-G NE 102nd Avenue Portland, OR 97220 Ph. 503-253-0827 Fax 503-253-4760 Frustrated with dial-up? Get high-speed for as low as $29.95/month*.*Depending on the local service providers in your area. OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 In a message dated 10/10/03 8:10:26 AM US Mountain Standard Time, skrndc1@... writes: Hi LIndsay, Thanks for that info .. where are you finding this ..got anything you can steer me to read? Sunny ;'-))) Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 711 Country Club Rd., #1A Eugene, Oregon 541-345-9436 I will post it this weekend, the information is saved on my favorites on my home computer. I found the information on anti-aromatases at pubmed - they are the online source for the national library of medicine. There is quite a bit of information on calcium d glucurate if you look - it also actually reduces the number of estrogen receptors. In fact many many many steroid using/misusing bodybuilders and athletes are using it to protect against the side effects of steroids and estrogen conversion - its very common. Anglen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 Hi LIndsay, Thanks for that info .. where are you finding this ..got anything you can steer me to read? Sunny ;'-))) Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 711 Country Club Rd., #1A Eugene, Oregon 541-345-9436 Re: gynecomastia > Several foods help prevent estrogen conversion (aromatization) from > testosterone - purple grapes and white button mushrooms are known to help lower > aromatase thereby reduce the male production of estrogen. Chrysin is a herbal > supplement sold in health food stores that also helps. Calcium D Glucurate reduces > the number of estrogen receptors and increases glucuronidation by the liver - > which the main way estrogen is removed from the body. > > Anglen > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 Hi LIndsay, So what do you see with the addition of progesterone rather than testosterone? To me, it seems to lead to testosterone, while removing the synthetic environmental estrogen from the various receptors. Any thoughts? Sunnynn Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 711 Country Club Rd., #1A Eugene, Oregon 541-345-9436 Re: gynecomastia > In a message dated 10/9/03 6:50:33 PM Central Daylight Time, skrndc1@... > writes: > > << on testosterone/estridiol ratios >> > > Most of the estrogenic problems in men is not from estradiol, but rather > estrone. Estrone results from androstenedione conversion and estradiol is from > conversion from testosterone . > > Anglen > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 In a message dated 10/10/03 8:13:22 AM US Mountain Standard Time, skrndc1@... writes: Hi LIndsay, So what do you see with the addition of progesterone rather than testosterone? To me, it seems to lead to testosterone, while removing the synthetic environmental estrogen from the various receptors. Any thoughts? =================== s note : here is an article on the downregulation of estrogen receptors by DHT - you are exactly right =========================== Biol Reprod. 2003 Oct 1 [Epub ahead of print]. Attenuation of Estrogenic Effects by Dihydrotestosterone in the Pig Uterus Is Associated with Downregulation of the Estrogen Receptors. Cardenas H, Pope WF. Androgens are known to attenuate some effects of estradiol-17beta (E) in the uterus. The objectives of the present experiment were to determine effects of 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone (DHT) on estrogenic actions in the pig uterus and its associations with changes in expression of the estrogen receptor (ER) alpha and ERbeta. Postpubertal gilts (120-130 kg of BW; n = 16) were ovariectomized, and 3 to 4 weeks later, received once-a-day injections (i.m.) of one of the following treatments during four consecutive days: 1) vehicle (corn oil), 2) E (250 micro g), 3) E (same dose as in 2) plus 1 mg of DHT, or 4) E (same dose as in 1) plus 10 mg of DHT. Uterine tissues were collected 24 h after the last treatment. Gilts receiving E or E plus 1 mg DHT had greater uterine wet weight, uterine horn diameter, luminal epithelium thickness, and endometrial gland diameter compared with gilts treated with vehicle or E plus 10 mg DHT. Gilts receiving E or E plus 1 mg DHT were not different in these characteristics. Relative amounts of mRNAs in the endometrium for the cell proliferation marker histone H2a and the E-inducible protein complement component C3, increased in gilts treated with E compared with gilts treated with vehicle. E-induced increases in histone H2a and C3 mRNAs were not altered by co-treatment with E plus 1 mg DHT, but were inhibited by E plus 10 mg DHT. Androgen receptor (AR) mRNA in the endometrium increased by treatment with E. Co-treatment of gilts with E and DHT did not alter the E-induced AR mRNA increase. Gilts treated with E plus 10 mg DHT had lesser amounts of immunoreactive ERalpha in cell nuclei of the myometrium and endometrial stroma, and a tendency for a decrease in luminal epithelium compared with gilts treated with E. Amounts of immunoreactive ERalpha in glandular epithelium were not influenced by the treatments. Relative amounts of ERalpha and ERbeta mRNAs decreased in the endometrium of gilts treated with E plus 10 mg DHT compared with gilts treated with E. Downregulation of the ERs, and particularly ERalpha in the myometrium and endometrial stroma, might be a relevant mechanism in the antagonism of estrogenic effects by DHT in the pig uterus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 OK, now I am confused. I thought that estrogen (estradiol) is used to treat (suppress) prostate cancer. That estradiol which is a break down product of Flax oil in the large intestine was show to have potential to reverse BPH. This article is reporting a physiology that is the opposite. “The man, however, does not develop breasts because he has a higher testosterone level than women do. As men age, their estradiol levels gradually rise, whereas their progesterone and testosterone levels gradually fall. The hormone balance changes. These gradual changes lead to reduction in testosterone benefits and eventually to estrogen dominance. That is, his estradiol effects emerge since his testosterone level is not sufficient to block or balance them. Estrogen dominance stimulates breast cell growth and endometrial cell proliferation in women. In men, estrogen dominance stimulates breast cell growth and prostate hypertrophy. Estrogen dominance is responsible for the majority of breast cancers and is the only known cause of endometrial cancer in women. Since the male prostate is the embryonic equivalent of the uterus, is should not be surprising that estrogen dominance is also a major cause of prostate cancer.” So flax oil is or is not a male preference when EFA is indicated. Larry Lubcke, DC, DABCO gynecomastia Sorry, I forget who placed the gynecomastia thread on the listserve last week, but here is a related commentary on testosterone/estridiol ratios in men from Dr. Lee. Thought you might find it interesting if not directly pertinent to your question. http://store./johnleemd/hormonesformen.html W. Snell, D.C. 127-G NE 102nd Avenue Portland, OR 97220 Ph. 503-253-0827 Fax 503-253-4760 Frustrated with dial-up? Get high-speed for as low as $29.95/month*. *Depending on the local service providers in your area. OregonDCs rules: 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated. 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name. 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 I don't know, Davd. I did get a lump for which my primary ordered biopsy excision. It was benign. Now you mention it, he did behave exactly like it may have been cancer. Cause is a strong word. I'll ask if he knows. You could google gynecomastia & breast cancer, I will too. Dr Grim? Dave bayabas76 wrote: > > Do gynecomastia lead to breast cancer in males? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 According to most articles that google brings up on this topic, even with gynecomastia, breast cancer in males is rare. American Cancer Society has this to say about the risk factors: http://www.cancer.org/docroot/CRI/content/CRI_2_4_2X_What_are_the_risk_factors_f\ or_male_breast_cancer_28.asp Jim > > > > Do gynecomastia lead to breast cancer in males? > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 In a message dated 11/21/07 12:48:55 PM, rjfuntrustedsignups@... writes: > > According to most articles that google brings up on this topic, even > with gynecomastia, breast cancer in males is rare. American Cancer > Society has this to say about the risk factors: > > > http://www.cancer.http://www.chttp://www.chttp://www.http://wwhttp://wwhttp://ww\ w.chttp://www.chttp://wwwhtt > > Jim > > > > > > > > Do gynecomastia lead to breast cancer in males? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 Dave, I decided to post this because for about four weeks now, I have observed that the pain in my left breast has remained and to some extent there seemed to have extended towards the left shoulder area. I have halved my dosage of Spiro to 25mg per day for two days now and the pain has gone down a noticeable level. It looks to me like this is strongly related to Spiro's effect on me. (Inspra is not available here). The C thing on top of PA is already so much to even consider as a possibility. > > > > Do gynecomastia lead to breast cancer in males? > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 Dr. Grim, During the early onset of gynecomastia, I have expiremented with stopping Spiro for a week. My bp went up to 170/100. It is too risky. In my case, I have only Spiro to specifically address my htn. My current testing dx is 25mg once a day, begun two days ago. The left breast is still painful if touched, but the dormant pain is at least more bearable now. > > > > > > > > Do gynecomastia lead to breast cancer in males? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 I get the same BP (170/100) after two days on half dose spiro, and have stroke and arrhythmia dangers well-establised in ER's and sleep labs over the to decades I was never diagnosed. I tae K-Dur, but still have to be given K on I.V. or I.M. It was not a surgeon, but Dr Carlson, the cardiologist who does keep up on PA and other things, and who saved my life by finally treating my PA. The surgeon was merely selected by his staff. He'd done xeroradiograph and it looked bad - a dark dense spot at the center of a white spidery thing. Turned out to be (another) calcium depoiosit, like a kidney stone of the breast. As some 120 doctors in the Washington Township medical group, I am inclined to listen when the scientifically practical Dr Carlson does not wish to take a risk. Especially when I have suffered so long with PA. The calcium deposit is another interesting example of PA's metabolic alkalosis (along with 6-7 kidney stones at a time, spinal canal stenosis, as mentioned earlier) which seems to remain in spite of spiro's aldo blocking effect. In fact it seems to have increased since using spiro. True, without spiro my K went too low, and BP too high. But this is not a cut and dry issue for my body (no pun intended). Dave bayabas76 wrote: > > Dr. Grim, > > During the early onset of gynecomastia, I have expiremented with > stopping Spiro for a week. My bp went up to 170/100. It is too risky. > In my case, I have only Spiro to specifically address my htn. My > current testing dx is 25mg once a day, begun two days ago. The left > breast is still painful if touched, but the dormant pain is at least > more bearable now. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know, Davd. I did get a lump for which my primary ordered > > > > biopsy excision. It was benign. > > > > > > > > Now you mention it, he did behave exactly like it may have been > > > cancer. > > > > Cause is a strong word. I'll ask if he knows. You could google > > > > gynecomastia & breast cancer, I will too. > > > > > > > > Dr Grim? > > > > > > > > Dave > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 the key phrase here is " scientifically practical " . these professionals are rare i would guess. david > > > > > > > > > > I don't know, Davd. I did get a lump for which my primary ordered > > > > > biopsy excision. It was benign. > > > > > > > > > > Now you mention it, he did behave exactly like it may have been > > > > cancer. > > > > > Cause is a strong word. I'll ask if he knows. You could google > > > > > gynecomastia & breast cancer, I will too. > > > > > > > > > > Dr Grim? > > > > > > > > > > Dave > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2007 Report Share Posted November 24, 2007 In a message dated 11/21/07 7:51:44 PM, bayabas76@... writes: > have halved my dosage of Spiro to 25mg per day for two days now and > the pain has gone down a noticeable level. It looks to me like this is > strongly related to Spiro's effect on me. (Inspra is not available here). > IN many men once this develops it is not possible to lower spiro enough to get rid of it. But keep us posted. You could write to Pfizer to see it they will do a compasionate thing and send your Dr some. Who controls the import of meds where you are? May your pressure be low! Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MD Senior Consultant to Shared Care Research and Consulting, Inc. (sharedcareinc.com) Clinical Professor of Internal Medicine and Epidemiology Med. Col. WI Clinical Professor of Nursing, Univ. of WI, Milwaukee Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure and the Physiology and History of Survival During Hard Times and Heart Disease today. ************************************** Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2007 Report Share Posted November 25, 2007 Can always try only 25 if BP holds. Even 12.5 in some small folks. Mybe you can give Pfizer a bust in the mouth if they dont get it to you? CE Grim MD ************************************** Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2007 Report Share Posted November 25, 2007 In a message dated 11/21/07 8:07:44 PM, bayabas76@... writes: > > Dr. Grim, > > During the early onset of gynecomastia, I have expiremented with > stopping Spiro for a week. My bp went up to 170/100. It is too risky. > In my case, I have only Spiro to specifically address my htn. My > current testing dx is 25mg once a day, begun two days ago. The left > breast is still painful if touched, but the dormant pain is at least > more bearable now. > > > > > AS I recall you had problems with Inspra. MIght be worth another try at adding/switching slowly?? May your pressure be low! Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MD Senior Consultant to Shared Care Research and Consulting, Inc. (sharedcareinc.com) Clinical Professor of Internal Medicine and Epidemiology Med. Col. WI Clinical Professor of Nursing, Univ. of WI, Milwaukee Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure and the Physiology and History of Survival During Hard Times and Heart Disease today. ************************************** Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2007 Report Share Posted November 25, 2007 I feel that I am now at the lowest dosage in my spiro experiment, 25mg b.i.d., before the bp shoots up again. The pain is receeding to the mound in the nipple area, the intensity also reduced a bit, but still there. Yes it might be a good idea to write or personally talk to a local Pfizer med rep regarding Inspra. > > > In a message dated 11/21/07 7:51:44 PM, bayabas76@... writes: > > > > have halved my dosage of Spiro to 25mg per day for two days now and > > the pain has gone down a noticeable level. It looks to me like this is > > strongly related to Spiro's effect on me. (Inspra is not available here). > > > > IN many men once this develops it is not possible to lower spiro enough to > get rid of it. But keep us posted. You could write to Pfizer to see it they > will do a compasionate thing and send your Dr some. Who controls the import > of meds where you are? > > > > May your pressure be low! > > Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MD > Senior Consultant to Shared Care Research and Consulting, Inc. > (sharedcareinc.com) > Clinical Professor of Internal Medicine and Epidemiology Med. Col. WI > Clinical Professor of Nursing, Univ. of WI, Milwaukee > > Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure > and the Physiology and History of Survival During > Hard Times and Heart Disease today. > > > > ************************************** > Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest > products. > > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 My problem with Inspra is that it is not available here in the Philippines. I am willing to experiment with it as I have problems with Spiro. for now, I think I will go on to 25mg per day on Spiro and see if bp holds. Will report progress in my trials. Honestly, I know I am risking a bp runaway. > > > In a message dated 11/21/07 8:07:44 PM, bayabas76@... writes: > > > > > > Dr. Grim, > > > > During the early onset of gynecomastia, I have expiremented with > > stopping Spiro for a week. My bp went up to 170/100. It is too risky. > > In my case, I have only Spiro to specifically address my htn. My > > current testing dx is 25mg once a day, begun two days ago. The left > > breast is still painful if touched, but the dormant pain is at least > > more bearable now. > > > > > > > > > > > > AS I recall you had problems with Inspra. MIght be worth another try at > adding/switching slowly?? > > > > May your pressure be low! > > Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MD > Senior Consultant to Shared Care Research and Consulting, Inc. > (sharedcareinc.com) > Clinical Professor of Internal Medicine and Epidemiology Med. Col. WI > Clinical Professor of Nursing, Univ. of WI, Milwaukee > > Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure > and the Physiology and History of Survival During > Hard Times and Heart Disease today. > > > > ************************************** > Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest > products. > > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 You can try 37.5 then 25 then 12.5 2 weeks on each dose and checking BP daily. Also be certain you are avoiding salt in everything and DASHIng to get the high K. Re: gynecomastia My problem with Inspra is that it is not available here in the Philippines. I am willing to experiment with it as I have problems with Spiro. for now, I think I will go on to 25mg per day on Spiro and see if bp holds. Will report progress in my trials. Honestly, I know I am risking a bp runaway. > > > In a message dated 11/21/07 8:07:44 PM, bayabas76@... writes: > > > > > > Dr. Grim, > > > > During the early onset of gynecomastia, I have expiremented with > > stopping Spiro for a week. My bp went up to 170/100. It is too risky. > > In my case, I have only Spiro to specifically address my htn. My > > current testing dx is 25mg once a day, begun two days ago. The left > > breast is still painful if touched, but the dormant pain is at least > > more bearable now. > > > > > > > > > > > > AS I recall you had problems with Inspra. MIght be worth another try at > adding/switching slowly?? > > > > May your pressure be low! > > Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MD > Senior Consultant to Shared Care Research and Consulting, Inc. > (sharedcareinc.com) > Clinical Professor of Internal Medicine and Epidemiology Med. Col. WI > Clinical Professor of Nursing, Univ. of WI, Milwaukee > > Specializing in Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure > and the Physiology and History of Survival During > Hard Times and Heart Disease today. > > > > ************************************** > Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest > products. > > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001 ) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 I would avoid any oral androgens since they may affect the liver. bol is especially troublesome.Gynecomastia results from too much conversion of testosterone into estradiol (some men are more susceptible genetically. Also men with higher body fat, pot smokers and heavy alcohol users tend to have more of a problem. Gyno can sometimes be reversed with antiestrogens like Arimidex or Nolvadex, but sometimes surgery is the only way to go when it is too advanced.Higher doses of antiestrogens can be a problem. Men need estrogen for bone, skin, and hair health. There are concerns about using these compounds long term since they may accelerate bone loss in men.Arimidex at 1 mg for 4 days, and then 0.5 mg everyday anecdotally seems to work. The best way to find out if to measure estradiol before you start and after a month on it to see. Regards, Vergelpowerusa dot orgFrom: indiannyc2 <indiannyc2@...> Sent: Thu, December 17, 2009 7:16:43 PMSubject: gynecomastia hi nelson, i have a slight case of gynecomastia, according to my doctor it could have been caused by one of the hiv meds of the 90's. i try to keep my body fat low so its not as obvious, i used to be on oxandrin which helped me build some lean muscle but discontinued when it started affecting my liver. i am currently on nandralone. my gains on nandralone have been much better but i noticed my gyne has become a bit more pronounced. is there anything i can take to reverse it a bit?also i am considering taking a cycle of dianabol, 20 mg a day for a month together with nolvadex for the duration of the cycle and 2 weeks after the cycle.do u think the nolvadex will prevent the dianabol from causing my case of gyne to become worse.or am i already predisposed to this condition and no anti aromataze or anti estrogen will help me?------------------------------------Welcome to our group!If you received this email from someone who forwarded it to you and would like to join this group, send a blank email to -subscribe and you will get an email with instructions to follow.You can chose to receive single emails or a daily digest (collection of emails). You can post pictures, images, attach files and search by keyword old postings in the group.For those of you who are members already and want to switch from single emails to digest or vice versa, visit www., click on , then on "edit my membership" and go down to your selection. The list administrator does not process any requests, so this is a do-it-yourself easy process ! :)Thanks for joining. You will learn and share a lot in this group!NOTE: I moderate, approve or disapprove emails before they are posted. Please follow the guidelines shown in the homepage. I will not allow rudeness, sexually explicit material, attacks, and anyone who does not follow the rules. If you are not OK with this, please do not join the group. Forward this email to anyone who may benefit from this information! Thanks!In Health, Vergel (PoWeRTX@...)List Founder and Moderator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 I would avoid any oral androgens since they may affect the liver. bol is especially troublesome.Gynecomastia results from too much conversion of testosterone into estradiol (some men are more susceptible genetically. Also men with higher body fat, pot smokers and heavy alcohol users tend to have more of a problem. Gyno can sometimes be reversed with antiestrogens like Arimidex or Nolvadex, but sometimes surgery is the only way to go when it is too advanced.Higher doses of antiestrogens can be a problem. Men need estrogen for bone, skin, and hair health. There are concerns about using these compounds long term since they may accelerate bone loss in men.Arimidex at 1 mg for 4 days, and then 0.5 mg everyday anecdotally seems to work. The best way to find out if to measure estradiol before you start and after a month on it to see. Regards, Vergelpowerusa dot orgFrom: indiannyc2 <indiannyc2@...> Sent: Thu, December 17, 2009 7:16:43 PMSubject: gynecomastia hi nelson, i have a slight case of gynecomastia, according to my doctor it could have been caused by one of the hiv meds of the 90's. i try to keep my body fat low so its not as obvious, i used to be on oxandrin which helped me build some lean muscle but discontinued when it started affecting my liver. i am currently on nandralone. my gains on nandralone have been much better but i noticed my gyne has become a bit more pronounced. is there anything i can take to reverse it a bit?also i am considering taking a cycle of dianabol, 20 mg a day for a month together with nolvadex for the duration of the cycle and 2 weeks after the cycle.do u think the nolvadex will prevent the dianabol from causing my case of gyne to become worse.or am i already predisposed to this condition and no anti aromataze or anti estrogen will help me?------------------------------------Welcome to our group!If you received this email from someone who forwarded it to you and would like to join this group, send a blank email to -subscribe and you will get an email with instructions to follow.You can chose to receive single emails or a daily digest (collection of emails). You can post pictures, images, attach files and search by keyword old postings in the group.For those of you who are members already and want to switch from single emails to digest or vice versa, visit www., click on , then on "edit my membership" and go down to your selection. The list administrator does not process any requests, so this is a do-it-yourself easy process ! :)Thanks for joining. You will learn and share a lot in this group!NOTE: I moderate, approve or disapprove emails before they are posted. Please follow the guidelines shown in the homepage. I will not allow rudeness, sexually explicit material, attacks, and anyone who does not follow the rules. If you are not OK with this, please do not join the group. Forward this email to anyone who may benefit from this information! Thanks!In Health, Vergel (PoWeRTX@...)List Founder and Moderator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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