Guest guest Posted August 29, 2010 Report Share Posted August 29, 2010 Most good Dr.'s will give a booster shot to jump start you and this is a good why to start one on TRT. The problem is most of them will not test Estradiol levels in them men first. A good Dr. will test this if your high get this down then retest you. High levels of Estradiol cause Gyno. not the Testosterone Estradiol is made from Testosterone so if your high and get a booster shot it can drive your Estradiol levels higher and you get Gyno. Your starting on Testim as your levels go up of T your Estradiol can go up you need to test this if your high above 30 best at 20 pg/ml take Arimidex to get this down. If your over 50 take .5 mgs every other day if your under 50 take ..25 mgs every other day. We cut the 1mg. pill up into 4 parts .25 mgs each. You can go to low on this so read this cut and paste of a file I made about not going to low on Arimidex. And one on starting gels. =================================================== How To Take Arimdex and not go down on your Estradiol to Low. What I found is if you go to low taking arimidex, it's the length of time your to low, if your too low say for 8 weeks it can take your body a longer time to make more Estradiol. Bottom line is to know how not to go to low. Keep a log on your dose and how you feel men going to low can't get it up taking Viagra. I went to low when I first tried Arimidex and did not know about going to low or how one feels to low, so I was low a good 8 weeks. I did not know I was low until my next labs. The best gage I have found to control your Estradiol levels is to gage your night time and morning wood. At good levels or what I call the sweet spot you get your night time and morning wood back so strong it will wake you up and you can hang a coat on it. Most men do good taking .25 mgs or 1/4 of a 1mg. pill, I use a pill cutter to cut the small pill in half then I stand it on the cut end and use a single edge razor to cut this in half. A good way to take arimidex is by how high your levels are. I tested over 90 pg/ml so we tried doing .5 mgs every other day after 8 weeks my next set of labs showed it did not move below 90, test said >90. So we did .5 mgs. every day in about 2 weeks I got some strong night time and morning wood back after not having them for many yrs. I kept doing this dose and in 8 weeks my next set of labs said <20 back in the day labs were like this they did not have to good labs we have today they could not read lower the 20. My Dr. told me this looks to low to stop taking the Arimidex. The one thing I noticed was my wood stopped and stopping the Arimidex my wood came back in about 7 weeks my next test at 8 weeks was 24 pg/ml. So we went back on the Arimidex but the Dr. told me to take .5 mgs every 3 days I was on this dose not a week and lost wood. This is when I figured out going to low you lose wood. And the longer your too low the longer it takes to get levels back up. I stopped the arimidex right away and got my wood back in 4 days. I then after playing with the dose for a time found the best dose is .25mgs every 2 to 3 days. So lets say your labs are less the 50 pg/ml if your take .5 mgs you can go down so dam fast your miss the sweet spot of your wood and go to low. It's best with lower levels 50 and under to do less Arimidex .25mgs every 2 days if later your lose wood when it comes back go to every 3 days. I have found estradiol is the hardest hormone to control, it goes up or down from month to month some times I need .25mgs every 2 days other times I need ..25mgs everyday most of the time I do well on every 3 days. So between wood and labs I do great and so do most of the men I have told this to. I keep a log on how much I am taking and how I feel. Doing this and reading back in my log I was able to tell when I was going to high or to low my Dr. lets me dose my arimidex by how I feel. Over the yrs. I have posted this story until I am blue in the face. ==================================================== Starting on Androgel or Testim. Yes this happens a lot you start on a low starting dose 5 grams when your brain sees the testosterone in your blood even just a little it slows down even stops sending the LH and FSH message to your testis to make the Testosterone you were making. So lets say your labs for Total T were 350 you add this dose of gel your brain sees this and you lose the base level you had before the gel. Now lets say you need more then 5 grams most do so now all your left with is what the gel is doing so lets say it's doing 200 so you lost 150. The reason you feel good is your levels go up that 200 the gel is doing in the first 2 weeks so your levels go up to 550 in theory. The brain sees this and you fall back. Why can this happen it might be how your putting on the gel with Androgel you need to spread it over your upper arms and shoulders and down your back as far as you can reach this is half of your dose then do the other side. Just spread it over the area but don't rub it in. The other thing is it's not getting through your skin good so you need more. If you have a thyroid problem your skin will become thicker and gels and creams don't get through the skin and you need to switch to shots. I tell men when they go on Gels to retest in 2 weeks because you can end up feeling worse. Most men just need more gel. Dr.'s that tell men to go on 5 grams of gel and come back in 8 to 12 weeks for labs don't know much about the use of gels. Dr.'s that treat a lot of men for low T on gels see this happen and test them again in 2 weeks. When you go to do labs get up and shower that morning go do your labs and then put in the gel after your blood test so you don’t spike up your labs. If you can’t do labs in the morning shower put on the gel but don’t get any gel on the spot they take the blood from. Do your labs about 6 hrs later. Call your Dr. and tell him this and that your not feeling good you were but fell back. Co-Moderator Phil > From: michaelgarin123 <no_reply > > Subject: Gynecomastia > > Date: Sunday, August 29, 2010, 5:47 AM > When I started TRT the first time my > doc gave me a " booster shot " of T along with prescribing > Testim. This apparently caused gynecomastia. I had hoped it > was just coincidental and maybe I was just getting really > fat that week but my new doctor has confirmed it and > explained that a " boost " of T can cause that. > > Now I am prescribed Testim again. (I stopped my first > prescribed treatment after a month to get second opinions > and learn more) So here I go and I would like to know how I > can avoid any more occurence of gyneco. I have been taking > the testim for a few days now and its hard to tell but I > feel like it could be causing a problem again. Is it > possible for testim to cause it and if so what do I need > changed to not cause it? > > Thank you > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2010 Report Share Posted September 15, 2010 Hs anyone had problems with Gynecomastia after being on Androgel for Hypogonadism ? Were you able to correct it by some means without stopping the Androgel? My doctor has not come up with a solution and I am afraid to stop the T treatments after beign on it for over 2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2010 Report Share Posted September 15, 2010 Yes most men on TRT not testing Estradiol and keeping it down will get this. Test your Estraidol it should be below 30 best at 20 pg/ml getting this down if the Gyno is not tissue it should come back down. Co-Moderator Phil > From: a123zick <TBOZICK1@...> > Subject: Gynecomastia > > Date: Wednesday, September 15, 2010, 3:39 PM > Hs anyone had problems with > Gynecomastia after being on Androgel for Hypogonadism ? Were > you able to correct it by some means without stopping the > Androgel? My doctor has not come up with a solution and I am > afraid to stop the T treatments after beign on it for over 2 > years. > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2010 Report Share Posted September 16, 2010 When does the Gyno become permanent? I have had it for about 9 months now. I brought up Clomid to my endo doctor. He didn't want to try it yet and reduced my androgel dose to 3 pumps for 3 months to see if it would help. The 3 months has almost past and I don't see improvement. I can tell the T treatment is new to him and he seems to be just winging it. Does anyone know a good endo doctor in ventura county or the san fernando valey near L.A.? > > > > Hs anyone had problems with Gynecomastia after being on Androgel for Hypogonadism ? Were you able to correct it by some means without stopping the Androgel? My doctor has not come up with a solution and I am afraid to stop the T treatments after beign on it for over 2 years. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2010 Report Share Posted September 16, 2010 It's difficult to say exactly when it becomes permanent. After you estrogen levels are normalized, future growth should stop and they should slowly regress over the next few years. Genetics and percentage of body fat will affect this. Since you reduced your T dosage 3 month ago, I think you have a good chance to see some regression. You should know your estrogen levels. If your doctor doesn't want to order the test, you can get them yourself through this company: http://www.privatemdlabs.com/ I would select either " Estrogen Panel Comprehensive Testing " , " Estrogens Total (Serum) " , " Estradiol " or " Estradiol Sensitive " . You can have your blood drawn at a labcorp location near you and receive the results over the internet. > > When does the Gyno become permanent? I have had it for about 9 months now. I brought up Clomid to my endo doctor. He didn't want to try it yet and reduced my androgel dose to 3 pumps for 3 months to see if it would help. The 3 months has almost past and I don't see improvement. I can tell the T treatment is new to him and he seems to be just winging it. Does anyone know a good endo doctor in ventura county or the san fernando valey near L.A.? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2010 Report Share Posted September 16, 2010 Tell him you want to go back to your regular dose, and just order some Clomid, or Amiridex from alldaychemist.com to reduce estradiol. Order it now before it becomes permanent. I don't know how long it takes though. Hopefully it is not too late. I think you can also get man boobs from excessive prolactin. > > > > > > Hs anyone had problems with Gynecomastia after being on Androgel for Hypogonadism ? Were you able to correct it by some means without stopping the Androgel? My doctor has not come up with a solution and I am afraid to stop the T treatments after beign on it for over 2 years. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2010 Report Share Posted September 17, 2010 Lowering T is not good if your levels fall to low your back to base one. High levels of Estradiol cause Gyno. And if you get it fast it will go away lowering Estradiol. But if it is tissue you need surgery to remove it. Drive out and see Dr. no here is a link to his forum he is a dam good Dr. http://www.definitivemind.com/forums/index.php Join there and read you will see what I am talking about. Co-Moderator Phil > From: a123zick <TBOZICK1@...> > Subject: Re: Gynecomastia > > Date: Thursday, September 16, 2010, 7:29 PM > When does the Gyno become permanent? > I have had it for about 9 months now. I brought up Clomid to > my endo doctor. He didn't want to try it yet and reduced my > androgel dose to 3 pumps for 3 months to see if it would > help. The 3 months has almost past and I don't see > improvement. I can tell the T treatment is new to him and he > seems to be just winging it. Does anyone know a good endo > doctor in ventura county or the san fernando valey near > L.A.? > > > > > > > > Hs anyone had problems with Gynecomastia after > being on Androgel for Hypogonadism ? Were you able to > correct it by some means without stopping the Androgel? My > doctor has not come up with a solution and I am afraid to > stop the T treatments after beign on it for over 2 years. > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 I took a saliva test and my Estradiol level came back at 2.4 possibly because I reduced the Androgel doe to 3 pumps. I am not sure if I should do the Arimidex since my levels were in the propper range. If I did start Arimidex, how long would the Arimidex take to reduce the Gyno problem? Thank you for your help. > > > > Hs anyone had problems with Gynecomastia after being on Androgel for Hypogonadism ? Were you able to correct it by some means without stopping the Androgel? My doctor has not come up with a solution and I am afraid to stop the T treatments after beign on it for over 2 years. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 You can't get good labs on Sex Hormones doing Saliva labs. Co-Moderator Phil > From: a123zick <TBOZICK1@...> > Subject: Re: Gynecomastia > > Date: Monday, September 27, 2010, 5:56 PM > I took a saliva test and my Estradiol > level came back at 2.4 possibly because I reduced the > Androgel doe to 3 pumps. I am not sure if I should do the > Arimidex since my levels were in the propper range. If I did > start Arimidex, how long would the Arimidex take to reduce > the Gyno problem? > > Thank you for your help. > > > > > > > > Hs anyone had problems with Gynecomastia after > being on Androgel for Hypogonadism ? Were you able to > correct it by some means without stopping the Androgel? My > doctor has not come up with a solution and I am afraid to > stop the T treatments after beign on it for over 2 years. > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 Do you think it is safe to go ahead with the Arimidex then? How long do you think it will take to see results? Thanks. > > > > > > > > Hs anyone had problems with Gynecomastia after > > being on Androgel for Hypogonadism ? Were you able to > > correct it by some means without stopping the Androgel? My > > doctor has not come up with a solution and I am afraid to > > stop the T treatments after beign on it for over 2 years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 If your estradiol level is indeed 2.4 then it is already on the low side. Using Arimidex won't do you any good, and will actually cause more problems. Established Gyno won't go away rapidly and will probably never vanish entirely. > > > > You can't get good labs on Sex Hormones doing Saliva labs. > > Co-Moderator > > Phil > > > level came back at 2.4 possibly because I reduced the > > > Androgel doe to 3 pumps. I am not sure if I should do the > > > Arimidex since my levels were in the propper range. If I did > > > start Arimidex, how long would the Arimidex take to reduce > > > the Gyno problem? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 I need to do another estradiol test. It doesn't make sense that with low levels I would develope gyno. Would Clomid or Nolvadex be a better option? I understand that these would not cause 100% blockage and so they avoid the side-effects. > > > > > > You can't get good labs on Sex Hormones doing Saliva labs. > > > Co-Moderator > > > Phil > > > > > level came back at 2.4 possibly because I reduced the > > > > Androgel doe to 3 pumps. I am not sure if I should do the > > > > Arimidex since my levels were in the propper range. If I did > > > > start Arimidex, how long would the Arimidex take to reduce > > > > the Gyno problem? > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 No unless you don't have night time and morning wood and have sides of high E2 levels. Other wise test this at Quest labs doing a #4021 sensitive test if your not high going on Arimidex will drive you down very low very fast just taking ..25 mgs every 3 days. Tell me how your wood is do you have night time and morning wood can you get it up for sex and keep it up. This is a problem from high E2 levels. Some men have sore and hard nipples and feel hot and sweat every wake up in a Panic Attack in the middle of the night. Co-Moderator Phil > From: a123zick <TBOZICK1@...> > Subject: Re: Gynecomastia > > Date: Monday, September 27, 2010, 7:39 PM > Do you think it is safe to go ahead > with the Arimidex then? How long do you think it will take > to see results? Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hs anyone had problems with > Gynecomastia after > > > being on Androgel for Hypogonadism ? Were you > able to > > > correct it by some means without stopping the > Androgel? My > > > doctor has not come up with a solution and I am > afraid to > > > stop the T treatments after beign on it for over > 2 years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 I think that test he posted was from a Saliva test and the top of the range is 3 still Saliva test are not anygood for sex hormones. Co-Moderator Phil > From: k0cm <Randy@...> > Subject: Re: Gynecomastia > > Date: Monday, September 27, 2010, 9:40 PM > If your estradiol level is indeed 2.4 > then it is already on the low side. Using Arimidex > won't do you any good, and will actually cause more > problems. Established Gyno won't go away rapidly and > will probably never vanish entirely. > > > > > > > > > > You can't get good labs on Sex Hormones doing > Saliva labs. > > > Co-Moderator > > > Phil > > > > > level came back at 2.4 possibly because I > reduced the > > > > Androgel doe to 3 pumps. I am not sure if I > should do the > > > > Arimidex since my levels were in the propper > range. If I did > > > > start Arimidex, how long would the Arimidex > take to reduce > > > > the Gyno problem? > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 The only problem I have right now is the gyno. I have had it for about 6 to 9 months. Otherwise I have felt pretty good on the 3 pumps. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hs anyone had problems with > > Gynecomastia after > > > > being on Androgel for Hypogonadism ? Were you > > able to > > > > correct it by some means without stopping the > > Androgel? My > > > > doctor has not come up with a solution and I am > > afraid to > > > > stop the T treatments after beign on it for over > > 2 years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 Yes. The 2.4 estadiol was from a saliva test. My endo won't order an estadiol blood test probably becasue it won't be covered by insurance. What was the name of the private lab that you mentioned? > > > > > > > > You can't get good labs on Sex Hormones doing > > Saliva labs. > > > > Co-Moderator > > > > Phil > > > > > > > level came back at 2.4 possibly because I > > reduced the > > > > > Androgel doe to 3 pumps. I am not sure if I > > should do the > > > > > Arimidex since my levels were in the propper > > range. If I did > > > > > start Arimidex, how long would the Arimidex > > take to reduce > > > > > the Gyno problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 I am shocked your insurance paid for your Saliva test mine will not pay for them I have BCBS they pay for Estradiol lebs I use Quest labs doing Estraidol Test #4021. Co-Moderator Phil > From: a123zick <TBOZICK1@...> > Subject: Re: Gynecomastia > > Date: Tuesday, September 28, 2010, 2:15 PM > > Yes. The 2.4 estadiol was from a saliva test. My endo won't > order an estadiol blood test probably becasue it won't be > covered by insurance. What was the name of the private lab > that you mentioned? > > > > > > > > > > > > You can't get good labs on Sex Hormones > doing > > > Saliva labs. > > > > > Co-Moderator > > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > level came back at 2.4 possibly > because I > > > reduced the > > > > > > Androgel doe to 3 pumps. I am not > sure if I > > > should do the > > > > > > Arimidex since my levels were in > the propper > > > range. If I did > > > > > > start Arimidex, how long would the > Arimidex > > > take to reduce > > > > > > the Gyno problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 I had to pay for the saliva test myself. I did this to check my estradiol once I found out it caused the gyno. > > > > > > > > > > > > You can't get good labs on Sex Hormones > > doing > > > > Saliva labs. > > > > > > Co-Moderator > > > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > > > level came back at 2.4 possibly > > because I > > > > reduced the > > > > > > > Androgel doe to 3 pumps. I am not > > sure if I > > > > should do the > > > > > > > Arimidex since my levels were in > > the propper > > > > range. If I did > > > > > > > start Arimidex, how long would the > > Arimidex > > > > take to reduce > > > > > > > the Gyno problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 If you can't get a Dr. to do this test you can get it here for $44.00. http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/ItemLC004515/Estradiol-Blood-Test.html Co-Moderator Phil > From: a123zick <TBOZICK1@...> > Subject: Re: Gynecomastia > > Date: Tuesday, September 28, 2010, 4:12 PM > I had to pay for the saliva test > myself. I did this to check my estradiol once I found out it > caused the gyno. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can't get good labs on > Sex Hormones > > > doing > > > > > Saliva labs. > > > > > > > Co-Moderator > > > > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > > > > > level came back at 2.4 > possibly > > > because I > > > > > reduced the > > > > > > > > Androgel doe to 3 pumps. > I am not > > > sure if I > > > > > should do the > > > > > > > > Arimidex since my levels > were in > > > the propper > > > > > range. If I did > > > > > > > > start Arimidex, how long > would the > > > Arimidex > > > > > take to reduce > > > > > > > > the Gyno problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 Hi Phil. I don't think Labcorp 004515 is the right test. LabCorp's standard estradiol test (#004515) is available online through LEF. It's the test LEF also includes in the " Male " test panel. But, it's not the " estradiol, sensitive " test (#140244) which appears to be preferred for men by Dr. in " TRT: A Recipe for Success " on his AllThingsMale site. Personally I had 004515 done thru Life Extension and I never believed the result. It came back as 5 pg/ml range 3-70 That was before I went on 5g androgel 4 months ago. I am now having the 140244 done and I should have the results next week and expect a more meaningful number which I intend to post here. BTW Life extension does not list 140244 on line but if you call them they can get the test done as a special order. I was charged 49 dollars but I am also a member of lef.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can't get good labs on > > Sex Hormones > > > > doing > > > > > > Saliva labs. > > > > > > > > Co-Moderator > > > > > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > level came back at 2.4 > > possibly > > > > because I > > > > > > reduced the > > > > > > > > > Androgel doe to 3 pumps. > > I am not > > > > sure if I > > > > > > should do the > > > > > > > > > Arimidex since my levels > > were in > > > > the propper > > > > > > range. If I did > > > > > > > > > start Arimidex, how long > > would the > > > > Arimidex > > > > > > take to reduce > > > > > > > > > the Gyno problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2010 Report Share Posted September 29, 2010 Thanks Dale, I knew about this don't know why I forgot it must be the Pain meds I am on. Co-Moderator Phil > From: Dale <etherial@...> > Subject: Re: Gynecomastia > > Date: Tuesday, September 28, 2010, 5:26 PM > > Hi Phil. > I don't think Labcorp 004515 is the right test. > > LabCorp's standard estradiol test (#004515) is available > online through LEF. It's the test LEF also includes in the > " Male " test panel. > > But, it's not the " estradiol, sensitive " test (#140244) > which appears to be preferred for men by Dr. in " TRT: A > Recipe for Success " on his AllThingsMale site. > > Personally I had 004515 done thru Life Extension and I > never believed the result. It came back as 5 pg/ml > range 3-70 > That was before I went on 5g androgel 4 months ago. I > am now having the 140244 done and I should have the results > next week and expect a more meaningful number which I intend > to post here. > > BTW Life extension does not list 140244 on line but if you > call them they can get the test done as a special > order. I was charged 49 dollars but I am also a member > of lef.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can't get good > labs on > > > Sex Hormones > > > > > doing > > > > > > > Saliva labs. > > > > > > > > > Co-Moderator > > > > > > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > level came > back at 2.4 > > > possibly > > > > > because I > > > > > > > reduced the > > > > > > > > > > Androgel doe > to 3 pumps. > > > I am not > > > > > sure if I > > > > > > > should do the > > > > > > > > > > Arimidex since > my levels > > > were in > > > > > the propper > > > > > > > range. If I did > > > > > > > > > > start > Arimidex, how long > > > would the > > > > > Arimidex > > > > > > > take to reduce > > > > > > > > > > the Gyno > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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