Guest guest Posted September 26, 2008 Report Share Posted September 26, 2008 Jess, I have used Androgel for years now with no problems whatsoever. You should start to notice results pretty quickly, with increased energy returning. The sex drive might take a little longer, but it does come back. Androgel is a steriod but does not work the same as people who take illegal steriods. The thing with Androgel is that you apply it each day, after you shower, so it gives you a steady continuous supply of testosterone. If you work out, with your increased energy and a bit of help from the Androgel, you should notice some additional muscle mass forming on your body, although it won't be like those individuals who take illegal steriods (they are given in mass doses of testosterone which can be unhealthy and dangerous). To apply the Androgel, put it on your shoulders, biceps, or stomach. I believe the instructions say to definitely NOT apply this to your testicles and I wouldn't try my inner thighs either. For years, I used my shoulders but a couple of years ago switched to using my stomach mainly. It seems like I've had better absorption since I switched, but you will have to find what works best for you. After awhile, your body will sort of "even out" with this drug. You probably won't be able to tell it's doing much as you'll get used to the energy levels and how you feel. But, you will want to continue using the gel. I had a friend who went off Androgel and was so exhausted he could barely function. He ended up going back on it. Like all steriods, once your body is used to getting the drug, it adjusts to it and may not produce as much testosterone on it's own. Going off of the drug will cause your levels to go exceptionally low for a time period until your body can rebound again. It's been great for me and I highly recommend it to anyone who is having low testosterone issues. I find the gel does not smell, is easy to apply, dries quickly, and doesn't cause any damage to my clothes. Hope it works as well for you! Rob Androgel I'd been feeling sorta blah and energyless for the past several months, along with a bit of depression and lack of sex drive. My doctor heard me say this and immediately ran a testosterone check, and sure enough it was pretty low. He prescribed Androgel 5 mg which I've just started taking. Had a bunch of questions I wanted to ask those who are taking it or have taken it in the past: 1) How long before I notice results, like energy increase, return of sex drive, etc.? 2) Does it work like anabolic steroids, in that it stimulates muscle growth? 3) The instructions say to rub the gel over the skin of your biceps and shoulders. I read online that you get better effects if you use the underside of their arms and inner thighs. One doctor in Australia says the most effective way is to rub it directly on your testicles. What works best? 4) I already have a problem with gynecomastia, for which I take tamoxifen. Online, I read that Androgel can have aromatase side effects. Is this true? I'm to check in with my doctor again in a month and he's going to rerun the testosterone test to see if there's an improvement. Obviously, I'll be running some of the above questions by him at that time as well. Meanwhile, thought you guys on the board might be able to help me. Any Androgel advice appreciated! Thanks. Jess. Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2008 Report Share Posted September 28, 2008 , I have been prescribed Androgel 10 mg/ day. Based on my own research, I take 5mg/ day along with hcg and Arimidex, which is an anti-estrogen like Tamoxifen. 1.)With my particular regimen ( not Androgel alone) I started noticing results as far as mood and libido within a couple of weeks. The best indicator of a decent amount of testosterone circulating is plain old morning wood...most of the time as opposed to almost never. 2.) I dont think that the prescribed doses come anywhere near body builder doses. The idea is not to have a supraphysiological amount of it, but to apporoximate a normal body rythm. That said...even though I dont work out at all... my ancient body is getting a little firmer on it's own since I started doing this about 6 months ago. I imagine that if I ever went to the gym, the Androgel would only work to my advantage. 3. ) I would not put Androgel anywhere near my testicles. I seem to get better absorption using my chest and abdomen as opposed to shoulders. 4.) Androgel, like any endogenous or exogenous testosterone will aromatise if that is what your body is doing. But these are not strictly speaking...Androgel side effects. It's what your body is doing with any testosterone it finds. That's the reason for the Anti-Estrogens. If you look at your lab work, and your SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin is high), then your body is tieing up (binding) testosterone so it is not free to circulate and do it's job. Probaby any testosterone will aggravate gyno if your body is converting it to Estrogen. The reason for the hcg is to keep your testicles operational. If your body senses enough in your system, the testicles dont get the signal from the brain to produce it. HCG mimics that signal so that your nuts dont turn into tic tacs. If the reason you are taking Testosterone is because of Primary (vs seconday) testicular failure, the HCG won't help...but you're no worse off than you were anyway. If our testicles stop working or only partially work, then we need the exogenous testosterone to feel normal. I know that I didnt feel like myself for a very long time ( and I am not just talking libido here) before I realized that my Testosterone levels had bottomed out. None of this is a perfect solution, but from my research and experience so far, the Androgel / HCG / Arimidex regimen seems the most sane as far as maintaining a normal level of Testosterone with a minimum of the hormone imbalance roller coaster effects that you can get from some other methods. > > I'd been feeling sorta blah and energyless for the past several > months, along with a bit of depression and lack of sex drive. My > doctor heard me say this and immediately ran a testosterone check, and > sure enough it was pretty low. He prescribed Androgel 5 mg which I've > just started taking. Had a bunch of questions I wanted to ask those > who are taking it or have taken it in the past: > > 1) How long before I notice results, like energy increase, return of > sex drive, etc.? > 2) Does it work like anabolic steroids, in that it stimulates muscle > growth? > 3) The instructions say to rub the gel over the skin of your biceps > and shoulders. I read online that you get better effects if you use > the underside of their arms and inner thighs. One doctor in Australia > says the most effective way is to rub it directly on your testicles. > What works best? > 4) I already have a problem with gynecomastia, for which I take > tamoxifen. Online, I read that Androgel can have aromatase side > effects. Is this true? > > I'm to check in with my doctor again in a month and he's going to > rerun the testosterone test to see if there's an improvement. > Obviously, I'll be running some of the above questions by him at that > time as well. Meanwhile, thought you guys on the board might be able > to help me. Any Androgel advice appreciated! > > Thanks. > > Jess. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 hi guys, for those of you that have used androgel, how long did it take for it to kick in and what did you feel? trying to gauge what im in for ________________________________ From: philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> ifpacpt@... Sent: Wed, November 4, 2009 11:38:58 AM Subject: Re: docs verdict for low free and low total test Was your Estradiol levels checked also this is a must before going on the gels. And it's a good Idea to start on them but get tested in 2 weeks to be sure they are working. Your very low and the starting dose of 5 grams might not be enough to make you feel better. So do labs in 2 weeks. Co-Moderator Phil > >> From: james <jimevans_2000> >> Subject: Carnitines - better than testosterone for erection/orgasm/ impotence? >> >> Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 10:48 AM >> Saw this article today. I can't vouch >> for their info - after all, they're selling a product that >> contains the substances in the story - but I thought it was >> worth posting. Here's a link to the whole article: http://www.life- enhancement. com/article_ template. asp?ID=1702 >> >> ...and here are some quotes from the article and the >> references. >> >> " Propionyl and acetyl carnitine derivatives beat sex >> hormone at its own game and enhance Viagra's benefits " >> >> " The researchers conducted a randomized, double-blind, >> > placebo-controlled trial of the effects of >> propionyl-L- carnitine and acetyl-L-carnitine, taken >> together, versus those of testosterone undecanoate (a >> commonly used chemical derivative that we'll refer to simply >> as testosterone) .1 They recruited 150 generally healthy men, >> aged 60–74 (average 64), whose chief complaints were those >> typical of older men who feel that they're " slowing down " in >> various ways. These symptoms include decreased libido, >> partial to complete impotence, depressed mood, and a reduced >> ability to concentrate, as well as irritability and fatigue. >> All the men had very low serum testosterone levels. >> Of the 150 men, 130 completed the 12-month trial. They had >> been divided into three groups: Group 1 received 160 mg/day >> of testosterone; Group 2 received 2 g/day of PLC and 2 g/day >> of ALC; and Group 3 received a placebo (a 500-mg > starch >> tablet). The men were examined at the outset of the trial >> and again at 3 months and 6 months, after which the >> treatments were halted; the final examination was performed >> 6 months later. " >> " Both Group 1 (testosterone) and Group 2 (PLC/ALC) >> benefited significantly from their respective treatments, >> with Group 2 faring better overall. First of all, neither >> treatment increased PSA levels (which is good). The >> testosterone group showed a significant increase in prostate >> volume (not good), which was to be expected. After 12 months >> (i.e., 6 months after treatment had ceased), prostate volume >> had decreased significantly, but not to the baseline level. >> By contrast with the testosterone group, the PLC/ALC group >> showed no increase in prostate volume. " >> " Leaving the realm of laboratory tests, the researchers >> also evaluated the men's > sexual function, using the >> International Index of Erectile Function (IIEF), a >> standardized set of questionnaires in five categories. >> Following are the categories and the results observed: >> >> - Erectile function – Both testosterone and PLC/ALC >> produced significant improvement at 3 months, with further >> improvement at 6 months. The improvement with PLC/ALC was >> significantly better than that with testosterone at both >> time points. >> - Satisfaction with sexual intercourse – With both >> treatments, there was significant improvement at 6 months. >> - Orgasm – There was no improvement with testosterone, >> but PLC/ALC produced significant improvement at 3 months, >> with further improvement at 6 months. >> - Sexual desire – Both treatments produced significant >> improvement at 3 months, but no further improvement at 6 >> months. >> - > General sexual well-being – There was no improvement >> with testosterone, but PLC/ALC produced significant >> improvement at 3 months, with no further improvement at 6 >> months. " >> >> " The prosexual benefits of PLC and ALC are supported by the >> results of another recent study by the same research group, >> this one on 96 men (average age 61) who had undergone a >> prostatectomy of the kind that largely spares the nerves >> required for erections to occur.2 Many such men experience >> erectile difficulties and find help in products such as >> Viagra (sildenafil) . The researchers surmised that PLC and >> ALC would enhance sildenafil's efficacy in restoring or >> improving sexual activity after the operation, and they >> found that this was true. The men who took PLC/ALC (2 g/day >> of each) in addition to sildenafil (as required) for 4 >> months had significantly > better results in virtually all >> areas of sexual function than the men who took only >> sildenafil (as required). " >> >> References >> >> - Cavallini G, Caracciolo S, Vitali G, Modenini F, >> Biagiotti G. Carnitine versus androgen administration in the >> treatment of sexual dysfunction, depressed mood, and fatigue >> associated with male aging. Urology 2004;63:641- 6. >> - Cavallini G, Modenini F, Vitali G, Koverech A. >> Acetyl-L-carnitine plus propionyl-L- carnitine improve >> efficacy of sildenafil in treatment of erectile dysfunction >> after bilateral nerve-sparing radical retropubic >> prostatectomy. Urology 2005;66:1080- 5. >> - Gentile V, Vicini P, Prigiotti G, Koverech A, Di Silverio >> F. Preliminary observations on the use of >> propionyl-L- carnitine in combination with sildenafil in >> patients with erectile dysfunction and diabetes. Curr > Med >> Res Opin 2004;20:1377- 84. >> - Michetti PM, Rossi R, Bonanno D, Tiesi A, Simonelli C. >> Male sexuality and regulation of emotions: a study on the >> association between alexithymia and erectile dysfunction. >> Int J Impot Res 2006;18:170- 4. >> >> ----- >> >> All in all, it sounds like the carnitines might be worth >> checking out for helping with some of the symptoms of low T. >> Comments? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------ --------- --------- ------ >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 give it 4 weeks-- you will feel it by then!! Carnitines - better than testosterone for erection/orgasm/ impotence? >> >> Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 10:48 AM >> Saw this article today. I can't vouch >> for their info - after all, they're selling a product that >> contains the substances in the story - but I thought it was >> worth posting. Here's a link to the whole article: http://www.life- enhancement. com/article_ template. asp?ID=1702 >> >> ...and here are some quotes from the article and the >> references. >> >> " Propionyl and acetyl carnitine derivatives beat sex >> hormone at its own game and enhance Viagra's benefits " >> >> " The researchers conducted a randomized, double-blind, >> > placebo-controlled trial of the effects of >> propionyl-L- carnitine and acetyl-L-carnitine, taken >> together, versus those of testosterone undecanoate (a >> commonly used chemical derivative that we'll refer to simply >> as testosterone) .1 They recruited 150 generally healthy men, >> aged 60–74 (average 64), whose chief complaints were those >> typical of older men who feel that they're " slowing down " in >> various ways. These symptoms include decreased libido, >> partial to complete impotence, depressed mood, and a reduced >> ability to concentrate, as well as irritability and fatigue. >> All the men had very low serum testosterone levels. >> Of the 150 men, 130 completed the 12-month trial. They had >> been divided into three groups: Group 1 received 160 mg/day >> of testosterone; Group 2 received 2 g/day of PLC and 2 g/day >> of ALC; and Group 3 received a placebo (a 500-mg > starch >> tablet). The men were examined at the outset of the trial >> and again at 3 months and 6 months, after which the >> treatments were halted; the final examination was performed >> 6 months later. " >> " Both Group 1 (testosterone) and Group 2 (PLC/ALC) >> benefited significantly from their respective treatments, >> with Group 2 faring better overall. First of all, neither >> treatment increased PSA levels (which is good). The >> testosterone group showed a significant increase in prostate >> volume (not good), which was to be expected. After 12 months >> (i.e., 6 months after treatment had ceased), prostate volume >> had decreased significantly, but not to the baseline level. >> By contrast with the testosterone group, the PLC/ALC group >> showed no increase in prostate volume. " >> " Leaving the realm of laboratory tests, the researchers >> also evaluated the men's > sexual function, using the >> International Index of Erectile Function (IIEF), a >> standardized set of questionnaires in five categories. >> Following are the categories and the results observed: >> >> - Erectile function – Both testosterone and PLC/ALC >> produced significant improvement at 3 months, with further >> improvement at 6 months. The improvement with PLC/ALC was >> significantly better than that with testosterone at both >> time points. >> - Satisfaction with sexual intercourse – With both >> treatments, there was significant improvement at 6 months. >> - Orgasm – There was no improvement with testosterone, >> but PLC/ALC produced significant improvement at 3 months, >> with further improvement at 6 months. >> - Sexual desire – Both treatments produced significant >> improvement at 3 months, but no further improvement at 6 >> months. >> - > General sexual well-being – There was no improvement >> with testosterone, but PLC/ALC produced significant >> improvement at 3 months, with no further improvement at 6 >> months. " >> >> " The prosexual benefits of PLC and ALC are supported by the >> results of another recent study by the same research group, >> this one on 96 men (average age 61) who had undergone a >> prostatectomy of the kind that largely spares the nerves >> required for erections to occur.2 Many such men experience >> erectile difficulties and find help in products such as >> Viagra (sildenafil) . The researchers surmised that PLC and >> ALC would enhance sildenafil's efficacy in restoring or >> improving sexual activity after the operation, and they >> found that this was true. The men who took PLC/ALC (2 g/day >> of each) in addition to sildenafil (as required) for 4 >> months had significantly > better results in virtually all >> areas of sexual function than the men who took only >> sildenafil (as required). " >> >> References >> >> - Cavallini G, Caracciolo S, Vitali G, Modenini F, >> Biagiotti G. Carnitine versus androgen administration in the >> treatment of sexual dysfunction, depressed mood, and fatigue >> associated with male aging. Urology 2004;63:641- 6. >> - Cavallini G, Modenini F, Vitali G, Koverech A. >> Acetyl-L-carnitine plus propionyl-L- carnitine improve >> efficacy of sildenafil in treatment of erectile dysfunction >> after bilateral nerve-sparing radical retropubic >> prostatectomy. Urology 2005;66:1080- 5. >> - Gentile V, Vicini P, Prigiotti G, Koverech A, Di Silverio >> F. Preliminary observations on the use of >> propionyl-L- carnitine in combination with sildenafil in >> patients with erectile dysfunction and diabetes. Curr > Med >> Res Opin 2004;20:1377- 84. >> - Michetti PM, Rossi R, Bonanno D, Tiesi A, Simonelli C. >> Male sexuality and regulation of emotions: a study on the >> association between alexithymia and erectile dysfunction. >> Int J Impot Res 2006;18:170- 4. >> >> ----- >> >> All in all, it sounds like the carnitines might be worth >> checking out for helping with some of the symptoms of low T. >> Comments? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------ --------- --------- ------ >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 After a couple of weeks like the man said - I have been on it for almsot 2 years and am checked every 6 months to see what my numbers are - so far so good - better body tone, am growning more body hair - like my fur - and can get a hard on on command with a little stroking. Oh I am also horny all the time too. ________________________________ From: Kipp Kruse <kckruse@...> Sent: Wed, November 4, 2009 11:19:54 PM Subject: Re: androgel  give it 4 weeks-- you will feel it by then!! Carnitines - better than testosterone for erection/orgasm/ impotence? >> >> Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 10:48 AM >> Saw this article today. I can't vouch >> for their info - after all, they're selling a product that >> contains the substances in the story - but I thought it was >> worth posting. Here's a link to the whole article: http://www.life- enhancement. com/article_ template. asp?ID=1702 >> >> ...and here are some quotes from the article and the >> references. >> >> " Propionyl and acetyl carnitine derivatives beat sex >> hormone at its own game and enhance Viagra's benefits " >> >> " The researchers conducted a randomized, double-blind, >> > placebo-controlled trial of the effects of >> propionyl-L- carnitine and acetyl-L-carnitine, taken >> together, versus those of testosterone undecanoate (a >> commonly used chemical derivative that we'll refer to simply >> as testosterone) ..1 They recruited 150 generally healthy men, >> aged 60–74 (average 64), whose chief complaints were those >> typical of older men who feel that they're " slowing down " in >> various ways. These symptoms include decreased libido, >> partial to complete impotence, depressed mood, and a reduced >> ability to concentrate, as well as irritability and fatigue. >> All the men had very low serum testosterone levels. >> Of the 150 men, 130 completed the 12-month trial. They had >> been divided into three groups: Group 1 received 160 mg/day >> of testosterone; Group 2 received 2 g/day of PLC and 2 g/day >> of ALC; and Group 3 received a placebo (a 500-mg > starch >> tablet). The men were examined at the outset of the trial >> and again at 3 months and 6 months, after which the >> treatments were halted; the final examination was performed >> 6 months later. " >> " Both Group 1 (testosterone) and Group 2 (PLC/ALC) >> benefited significantly from their respective treatments, >> with Group 2 faring better overall. First of all, neither >> treatment increased PSA levels (which is good). The >> testosterone group showed a significant increase in prostate >> volume (not good), which was to be expected. After 12 months >> (i.e., 6 months after treatment had ceased), prostate volume >> had decreased significantly, but not to the baseline level. >> By contrast with the testosterone group, the PLC/ALC group >> showed no increase in prostate volume. " >> " Leaving the realm of laboratory tests, the researchers >> also evaluated the men's > sexual function, using the >> International Index of Erectile Function (IIEF), a >> standardized set of questionnaires in five categories. >> Following are the categories and the results observed: >> >> - Erectile function – Both testosterone and PLC/ALC >> produced significant improvement at 3 months, with further >> improvement at 6 months. The improvement with PLC/ALC was >> significantly better than that with testosterone at both >> time points. >> - Satisfaction with sexual intercourse – With both >> treatments, there was significant improvement at 6 months. >> - Orgasm – There was no improvement with testosterone, >> but PLC/ALC produced significant improvement at 3 months, >> with further improvement at 6 months. >> - Sexual desire – Both treatments produced significant >> improvement at 3 months, but no further improvement at 6 >> months. >> - > General sexual well-being – There was no improvement >> with testosterone, but PLC/ALC produced significant >> improvement at 3 months, with no further improvement at 6 >> months. " >> >> " The prosexual benefits of PLC and ALC are supported by the >> results of another recent study by the same research group, >> this one on 96 men (average age 61) who had undergone a >> prostatectomy of the kind that largely spares the nerves >> required for erections to occur.2 Many such men experience >> erectile difficulties and find help in products such as >> Viagra (sildenafil) . The researchers surmised that PLC and >> ALC would enhance sildenafil's efficacy in restoring or >> improving sexual activity after the operation, and they >> found that this was true. The men who took PLC/ALC (2 g/day >> of each) in addition to sildenafil (as required) for 4 >> months had significantly > better results in virtually all >> areas of sexual function than the men who took only >> sildenafil (as required). " >> >> References >> >> - Cavallini G, Caracciolo S, Vitali G, Modenini F, >> Biagiotti G. Carnitine versus androgen administration in the >> treatment of sexual dysfunction, depressed mood, and fatigue >> associated with male aging. Urology 2004;63:641- 6. >> - Cavallini G, Modenini F, Vitali G, Koverech A. >> Acetyl-L-carnitine plus propionyl-L- carnitine improve >> efficacy of sildenafil in treatment of erectile dysfunction >> after bilateral nerve-sparing radical retropubic >> prostatectomy. Urology 2005;66:1080- 5. >> - Gentile V, Vicini P, Prigiotti G, Koverech A, Di Silverio >> F. Preliminary observations on the use of >> propionyl-L- carnitine in combination with sildenafil in >> patients with erectile dysfunction and diabetes. Curr > Med >> Res Opin 2004;20:1377- 84. >> - Michetti PM, Rossi R, Bonanno D, Tiesi A, Simonelli C. >> Male sexuality and regulation of emotions: a study on the >> association between alexithymia and erectile dysfunction. >> Int J Impot Res 2006;18:170- 4. >> >> ----- >> >> All in all, it sounds like the carnitines might be worth >> checking out for helping with some of the symptoms of low T.. >> Comments? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------ --------- --------- ------ >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 olderguy, how old are you? can I expect to loose more fat and build some nice mass ? ________________________________ From: Older Guy <anoldernjgymguy@...> Sent: Thu, November 5, 2009 5:44:45 AM Subject: Re: androgel  After a couple of weeks like the man said - I have been on it for almsot 2 years and am checked every 6 months to see what my numbers are - so far so good - better body tone, am growning more body hair - like my fur - and can get a hard on on command with a little stroking. Oh I am also horny all the time too. ____________ _________ _________ __ From: Kipp Kruse <kckruseeiu (DOT) edu> Sent: Wed, November 4, 2009 11:19:54 PM Subject: Re: androgel  give it 4 weeks-- you will feel it by then!! Carnitines - better than testosterone for erection/orgasm/ impotence? >> >> Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 10:48 AM >> Saw this article today. I can't vouch >> for their info - after all, they're selling a product that >> contains the substances in the story - but I thought it was >> worth posting. Here's a link to the whole article: http://www.life- enhancement. com/article_ template. asp?ID=1702 >> >> ...and here are some quotes from the article and the >> references. >> >> " Propionyl and acetyl carnitine derivatives beat sex >> hormone at its own game and enhance Viagra's benefits " >> >> " The researchers conducted a randomized, double-blind, >> > placebo-controlled trial of the effects of >> propionyl-L- carnitine and acetyl-L-carnitine, taken >> together, versus those of testosterone undecanoate (a >> commonly used chemical derivative that we'll refer to simply >> as testosterone) ..1 They recruited 150 generally healthy men, >> aged 60–74 (average 64), whose chief complaints were those >> typical of older men who feel that they're " slowing down " in >> various ways. These symptoms include decreased libido, >> partial to complete impotence, depressed mood, and a reduced >> ability to concentrate, as well as irritability and fatigue. >> All the men had very low serum testosterone levels. >> Of the 150 men, 130 completed the 12-month trial. They had >> been divided into three groups: Group 1 received 160 mg/day >> of testosterone; Group 2 received 2 g/day of PLC and 2 g/day >> of ALC; and Group 3 received a placebo (a 500-mg > starch >> tablet). The men were examined at the outset of the trial >> and again at 3 months and 6 months, after which the >> treatments were halted; the final examination was performed >> 6 months later. " >> " Both Group 1 (testosterone) and Group 2 (PLC/ALC) >> benefited significantly from their respective treatments, >> with Group 2 faring better overall. First of all, neither >> treatment increased PSA levels (which is good). The >> testosterone group showed a significant increase in prostate >> volume (not good), which was to be expected. After 12 months >> (i.e., 6 months after treatment had ceased), prostate volume >> had decreased significantly, but not to the baseline level. >> By contrast with the testosterone group, the PLC/ALC group >> showed no increase in prostate volume. " >> " Leaving the realm of laboratory tests, the researchers >> also evaluated the men's > sexual function, using the >> International Index of Erectile Function (IIEF), a >> standardized set of questionnaires in five categories. >> Following are the categories and the results observed: >> >> - Erectile function – Both testosterone and PLC/ALC >> produced significant improvement at 3 months, with further >> improvement at 6 months. The improvement with PLC/ALC was >> significantly better than that with testosterone at both >> time points. >> - Satisfaction with sexual intercourse – With both >> treatments, there was significant improvement at 6 months. >> - Orgasm – There was no improvement with testosterone, >> but PLC/ALC produced significant improvement at 3 months, >> with further improvement at 6 months. >> - Sexual desire – Both treatments produced significant >> improvement at 3 months, but no further improvement at 6 >> months. >> - > General sexual well-being – There was no improvement >> with testosterone, but PLC/ALC produced significant >> improvement at 3 months, with no further improvement at 6 >> months. " >> >> " The prosexual benefits of PLC and ALC are supported by the >> results of another recent study by the same research group, >> this one on 96 men (average age 61) who had undergone a >> prostatectomy of the kind that largely spares the nerves >> required for erections to occur.2 Many such men experience >> erectile difficulties and find help in products such as >> Viagra (sildenafil) . The researchers surmised that PLC and >> ALC would enhance sildenafil's efficacy in restoring or >> improving sexual activity after the operation, and they >> found that this was true. The men who took PLC/ALC (2 g/day >> of each) in addition to sildenafil (as required) for 4 >> months had significantly > better results in virtually all >> areas of sexual function than the men who took only >> sildenafil (as required). " >> >> References >> >> - Cavallini G, Caracciolo S, Vitali G, Modenini F, >> Biagiotti G. Carnitine versus androgen administration in the >> treatment of sexual dysfunction, depressed mood, and fatigue >> associated with male aging. Urology 2004;63:641- 6. >> - Cavallini G, Modenini F, Vitali G, Koverech A. >> Acetyl-L-carnitine plus propionyl-L- carnitine improve >> efficacy of sildenafil in treatment of erectile dysfunction >> after bilateral nerve-sparing radical retropubic >> prostatectomy. Urology 2005;66:1080- 5. >> - Gentile V, Vicini P, Prigiotti G, Koverech A, Di Silverio >> F. Preliminary observations on the use of >> propionyl-L- carnitine in combination with sildenafil in >> patients with erectile dysfunction and diabetes. Curr > Med >> Res Opin 2004;20:1377- 84. >> - Michetti PM, Rossi R, Bonanno D, Tiesi A, Simonelli C. >> Male sexuality and regulation of emotions: a study on the >> association between alexithymia and erectile dysfunction. >> Int J Impot Res 2006;18:170- 4. >> >> ----- >> >> All in all, it sounds like the carnitines might be worth >> checking out for helping with some of the symptoms of low T.. >> Comments? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------ --------- --------- ------ >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 1 weeks feel good then crash like crazy ..do not expect to be tested for atleast 2 months. Most dr's will not test with in 10 days and adjust. You loose half absorption because of it being applied by your hands so numbers will be all over the place. I suggest that you call and have your insurance change to no primary means you can go any where and not restricted to your dr. > > > >> From: james <jimevans_2000> > >> Subject: Carnitines - better than testosterone for erection/orgasm/ impotence? > >> > >> Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 10:48 AM > >> Saw this article today. I can't vouch > >> for their info - after all, they're selling a product that > >> contains the substances in the story - but I thought it was > >> worth posting. Here's a link to the whole article: http://www.life- enhancement. com/article_ template. asp?ID=1702 > >> > >> ...and here are some quotes from the article and the > >> references. > >> > >> " Propionyl and acetyl carnitine derivatives beat sex > >> hormone at its own game and enhance Viagra's benefits " > >> > >> " The researchers conducted a randomized, double-blind, > >> > > placebo-controlled trial of the effects of > >> propionyl-L- carnitine and acetyl-L-carnitine, taken > >> together, versus those of testosterone undecanoate (a > >> commonly used chemical derivative that we'll refer to simply > >> as testosterone) .1 They recruited 150 generally healthy men, > >> aged 60†" 74 (average 64), whose chief complaints were those > >> typical of older men who feel that they're " slowing down " in > >> various ways. These symptoms include decreased libido, > >> partial to complete impotence, depressed mood, and a reduced > >> ability to concentrate, as well as irritability and fatigue. > >> All the men had very low serum testosterone levels. > >> Of the 150 men, 130 completed the 12-month trial. They had > >> been divided into three groups: Group 1 received 160 mg/day > >> of testosterone; Group 2 received 2 g/day of PLC and 2 g/day > >> of ALC; and Group 3 received a placebo (a 500-mg > > starch > >> tablet). The men were examined at the outset of the trial > >> and again at 3 months and 6 months, after which the > >> treatments were halted; the final examination was performed > >> 6 months later. " > >> " Both Group 1 (testosterone) and Group 2 (PLC/ALC) > >> benefited significantly from their respective treatments, > >> with Group 2 faring better overall. First of all, neither > >> treatment increased PSA levels (which is good). The > >> testosterone group showed a significant increase in prostate > >> volume (not good), which was to be expected. After 12 months > >> (i.e., 6 months after treatment had ceased), prostate volume > >> had decreased significantly, but not to the baseline level. > >> By contrast with the testosterone group, the PLC/ALC group > >> showed no increase in prostate volume. " > >> " Leaving the realm of laboratory tests, the researchers > >> also evaluated the men's > > sexual function, using the > >> International Index of Erectile Function (IIEF), a > >> standardized set of questionnaires in five categories. > >> Following are the categories and the results observed: > >> > >> - Erectile function †" Both testosterone and PLC/ALC > >> produced significant improvement at 3 months, with further > >> improvement at 6 months. The improvement with PLC/ALC was > >> significantly better than that with testosterone at both > >> time points. > >> - Satisfaction with sexual intercourse †" With both > >> treatments, there was significant improvement at 6 months. > >> - Orgasm †" There was no improvement with testosterone, > >> but PLC/ALC produced significant improvement at 3 months, > >> with further improvement at 6 months. > >> - Sexual desire †" Both treatments produced significant > >> improvement at 3 months, but no further improvement at 6 > >> months. > >> - > > General sexual well-being †" There was no improvement > >> with testosterone, but PLC/ALC produced significant > >> improvement at 3 months, with no further improvement at 6 > >> months. " > >> > >> " The prosexual benefits of PLC and ALC are supported by the > >> results of another recent study by the same research group, > >> this one on 96 men (average age 61) who had undergone a > >> prostatectomy of the kind that largely spares the nerves > >> required for erections to occur.2 Many such men experience > >> erectile difficulties and find help in products such as > >> Viagra (sildenafil) . The researchers surmised that PLC and > >> ALC would enhance sildenafil's efficacy in restoring or > >> improving sexual activity after the operation, and they > >> found that this was true. The men who took PLC/ALC (2 g/day > >> of each) in addition to sildenafil (as required) for 4 > >> months had significantly > > better results in virtually all > >> areas of sexual function than the men who took only > >> sildenafil (as required). " > >> > >> References > >> > >> - Cavallini G, Caracciolo S, Vitali G, Modenini F, > >> Biagiotti G. Carnitine versus androgen administration in the > >> treatment of sexual dysfunction, depressed mood, and fatigue > >> associated with male aging. Urology 2004;63:641- 6. > >> - Cavallini G, Modenini F, Vitali G, Koverech A. > >> Acetyl-L-carnitine plus propionyl-L- carnitine improve > >> efficacy of sildenafil in treatment of erectile dysfunction > >> after bilateral nerve-sparing radical retropubic > >> prostatectomy. Urology 2005;66:1080- 5. > >> - Gentile V, Vicini P, Prigiotti G, Koverech A, Di Silverio > >> F. Preliminary observations on the use of > >> propionyl-L- carnitine in combination with sildenafil in > >> patients with erectile dysfunction and diabetes. Curr > > Med > >> Res Opin 2004;20:1377- 84. > >> - Michetti PM, Rossi R, Bonanno D, Tiesi A, Simonelli C. > >> Male sexuality and regulation of emotions: a study on the > >> association between alexithymia and erectile dysfunction. > >> Int J Impot Res 2006;18:170- 4. > >> > >> ----- > >> > >> All in all, it sounds like the carnitines might be worth > >> checking out for helping with some of the symptoms of low T. > >> Comments? > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------ --------- --------- ------ > >> > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Yes buy if your starting on a start dose 5 grams test in 2 weeks you need to know it's working or you can end up feeling worse. Co-Moderator Phil > > > >> From: james <jimevans_2000> > >> Subject: Carnitines - better than > testosterone for erection/orgasm/ impotence? > >> > >> Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 10:48 AM > >> Saw this article today. I can't vouch > >> for their info - after all, they're selling a > product that > >> contains the substances in the story - but I > thought it was > >> worth posting. Here's a link to the whole article: > http://www.life- enhancement. com/article_ template. > asp?ID=1702 > >> > >> ...and here are some quotes from the article and > the > >> references. > >> > >> " Propionyl and acetyl carnitine derivatives beat > sex > >> hormone at its own game and enhance Viagra's > benefits " > >> > >> " The researchers conducted a randomized, > double-blind, > >> > > placebo-controlled trial of the effects of > >> propionyl-L- carnitine and acetyl-L-carnitine, > taken > >> together, versus those of testosterone undecanoate > (a > >> commonly used chemical derivative that we'll refer > to simply > >> as testosterone) .1 They recruited 150 generally > healthy men, > >> aged 60–74 (average 64), whose chief complaints > were those > >> typical of older men who feel that they're > " slowing down " in > >> various ways. These symptoms include decreased > libido, > >> partial to complete impotence, depressed mood, and > a reduced > >> ability to concentrate, as well as irritability > and fatigue. > >> All the men had very low serum testosterone > levels. > >> Of the 150 men, 130 completed the 12-month trial. > They had > >> been divided into three groups: Group 1 received > 160 mg/day > >> of testosterone; Group 2 received 2 g/day of PLC > and 2 g/day > >> of ALC; and Group 3 received a placebo (a 500-mg > > starch > >> tablet). The men were examined at the outset of > the trial > >> and again at 3 months and 6 months, after which > the > >> treatments were halted; the final examination was > performed > >> 6 months later. " > >> " Both Group 1 (testosterone) and Group 2 > (PLC/ALC) > >> benefited significantly from their respective > treatments, > >> with Group 2 faring better overall. First of all, > neither > >> treatment increased PSA levels (which is good). > The > >> testosterone group showed a significant increase > in prostate > >> volume (not good), which was to be expected. After > 12 months > >> (i.e., 6 months after treatment had ceased), > prostate volume > >> had decreased significantly, but not to the > baseline level. > >> By contrast with the testosterone group, the > PLC/ALC group > >> showed no increase in prostate volume. " > >> " Leaving the realm of laboratory tests, the > researchers > >> also evaluated the men's > > sexual function, using the > >> International Index of Erectile Function (IIEF), > a > >> standardized set of questionnaires in five > categories. > >> Following are the categories and the results > observed: > >> > >> - Erectile function – Both testosterone and > PLC/ALC > >> produced significant improvement at 3 months, with > further > >> improvement at 6 months. The improvement with > PLC/ALC was > >> significantly better than that with testosterone > at both > >> time points. > >> - Satisfaction with sexual intercourse – With > both > >> treatments, there was significant improvement at 6 > months. > >> - Orgasm – There was no improvement with > testosterone, > >> but PLC/ALC produced significant improvement at 3 > months, > >> with further improvement at 6 months. > >> - Sexual desire – Both treatments produced > significant > >> improvement at 3 months, but no further > improvement at 6 > >> months. > >> - > > General sexual well-being – There was no > improvement > >> with testosterone, but PLC/ALC produced > significant > >> improvement at 3 months, with no further > improvement at 6 > >> months. " > >> > >> " The prosexual benefits of PLC and ALC are > supported by the > >> results of another recent study by the same > research group, > >> this one on 96 men (average age 61) who had > undergone a > >> prostatectomy of the kind that largely spares the > nerves > >> required for erections to occur.2 Many such men > experience > >> erectile difficulties and find help in products > such as > >> Viagra (sildenafil) . The researchers surmised > that PLC and > >> ALC would enhance sildenafil's efficacy in > restoring or > >> improving sexual activity after the operation, and > they > >> found that this was true. The men who took PLC/ALC > (2 g/day > >> of each) in addition to sildenafil (as required) > for 4 > >> months had significantly > > better results in virtually all > >> areas of sexual function than the men who took > only > >> sildenafil (as required). " > >> > >> References > >> > >> - Cavallini G, Caracciolo S, Vitali G, Modenini > F, > >> Biagiotti G. Carnitine versus androgen > administration in the > >> treatment of sexual dysfunction, depressed mood, > and fatigue > >> associated with male aging. Urology 2004;63:641- > 6. > >> - Cavallini G, Modenini F, Vitali G, Koverech A. > >> Acetyl-L-carnitine plus propionyl-L- carnitine > improve > >> efficacy of sildenafil in treatment of erectile > dysfunction > >> after bilateral nerve-sparing radical retropubic > >> prostatectomy. Urology 2005;66:1080- 5. > >> - Gentile V, Vicini P, Prigiotti G, Koverech A, Di > Silverio > >> F. Preliminary observations on the use of > >> propionyl-L- carnitine in combination with > sildenafil in > >> patients with erectile dysfunction and diabetes. > Curr > > Med > >> Res Opin 2004;20:1377- 84. > >> - Michetti PM, Rossi R, Bonanno D, Tiesi A, > Simonelli C. > >> Male sexuality and regulation of emotions: a study > on the > >> association between alexithymia and erectile > dysfunction. > >> Int J Impot Res 2006;18:170- 4. > >> > >> ----- > >> > >> All in all, it sounds like the carnitines might be > worth > >> checking out for helping with some of the symptoms > of low T. > >> Comments? > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------ --------- --------- ------ > >> > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 It is better to put the gel on in the morning after a shower everyday. Doing this keeps your levels up like your body use to do it high in the morning going lower by bedtime. But if you can't do this it will still work I could not put it on after dinner time it would keep me up all night. Co-Moderator Phil > From: crazy2swim <no_reply > > Subject: Androgel > > Date: Tuesday, December 15, 2009, 1:40 AM > Does it matter what time of day you > apply the gel? As long as its the same time everyday. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 Phil,  Did you receive and forward my question regarding Testim versus Androgel?  > From: crazy2swim <no_reply@group s.com> > Subject: Androgel > > Date: Tuesday, December 15, 2009, 1:40 AM > Does it matter what time of day you > apply the gel? As long as its the same time everyday. > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 No I did not did you send it by Email or did you post it. Co-Moderator Phil > > > From: crazy2swim <no_reply@group s.com> > > Subject: Androgel > > > > Date: Tuesday, December 15, 2009, 1:40 AM > > Does it matter what time of day you > > apply the gel? As long as its the same time > everyday. > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 Morning is the best to keep in natural biological rthyme. > > Does it matter what time of day you apply the gel? As long as its the same time everyday. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 according to my primary and my pharmacist, they said it doesnt matter, as long as its the same time every day and that you dont shower within 2-6 hours after applying the gel.. ________________________________ From: hardasnails1973 <hardasnails1973@...> Sent: Tue, December 15, 2009 1:26:54 PM Subject: Re: Androgel Morning is the best to keep in natural biological rthyme. > > Does it matter what time of day you apply the gel? As long as its the same time everyday. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 Hi andrenym007 and Welcome, Starting on 5 grams of gel is a starting dose few men get good levels on this dose. Don't put the gel on your belly if you have fat there it can convert the Testosterone into some Estradiol. I don't feel this is why your feeling this way it's too soon to tell. But as your levels come up your body will act up a little and things can happen like having sore and hard nipples this it the Testosterone levels changing in your body. I need to tell you men with a thyroid problem can get a thicker skin and the gels for some men will not get though the skin very well. So you need to do labs in 2 weeks to be sure it's working your Testosterone levels can fall lower then you started and your going to feel worse. When you put on the gel put half of it on your upper arms and shoulders and down your back as far as you can reach then to the other side. Just spread it around but don't rub it in let it dry from wet then put on a T shirt so the gel does not get on your wife or kids. We have a files and links section here at the home page on the left side of the screen full of info about low T and high Estraidol levels do go there and read about this and learn as much as you can so you know when you see your Dr. what he is doing or what you need done. Here are a few to get you started. http://www.griffinmedical.com/male_hormone_modulation_therapy.html Do read this link about Adrenals and Thyroid a lot of men with low T have this problem. http://livingnetwork.co.za/hormones/adrenal-fatigue/ In this link it's has the most info about low T I ever seen on one place. http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=450553 Co-Moderator Phil > From: andrenym007 <no_reply > > Subject: Androgel > > Date: Monday, February 8, 2010, 8:00 PM > Hello, > > > Started taking 5 gram packet on saturday. Doctor prescribed > it to me for low test, I'm 35 and numbers have been in low > 200's for over a year. > > Today I feel foggy and depressed. Is that normal? Should I > continue with dose? Today I applied it to my abs as well, > can that be why I'm suddenly feeling like this today? It's > only been 3 days, just wondering what's going on. Just to > mention I also have an underactive thyroid and taking > levoxyl for this. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 Thx Phil for your response. You dont think that it has anything to do with androgel? I used to feel like that the day after a drinking binge. That depressed anxious feeling that some people get. That's why I dont drink anymore! Anyway maybe my body shut down it's test production a little early and I crashed last night? > > > From: andrenym007 <no_reply > > > Subject: Androgel > > > > Date: Monday, February 8, 2010, 8:00 PM > > Hello, > > > > > > Started taking 5 gram packet on saturday. Doctor prescribed > > it to me for low test, I'm 35 and numbers have been in low > > 200's for over a year. > > > > Today I feel foggy and depressed. Is that normal? Should I > > continue with dose? Today I applied it to my abs as well, > > can that be why I'm suddenly feeling like this today? It's > > only been 3 days, just wondering what's going on. Just to > > mention I also have an underactive thyroid and taking > > levoxyl for this. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 It is very possable you might not be getting enough T from the gel and your body seeing it in your blood will stop makeing that 200 on your base labs and you can go lower. Do talk to your Dr. and run some labs after your on this 2 weeks. Here is a what I tell men starting on Gels. =================================================== Yes this happens a lot you start on a low starting dose 5 grams when your brain sees the testosterone in your blood even just a little it slows down even stops sending the LH and FSH message to your testis to make the Testosterone you were making. So lets say your labs for Total T were 350 you add this dose of gel your brain sees this and you lose the base level you had before the gel. Now lets say you need more then 5 grams most do so now all your left with is what the gel is doing so lets say it's doing 200 so you lost 150. The reason you feel good is your levels go up that 200 the gel is doing in the first 2 weeks so your levels go up to 550 in theory. The brain sees this and you fall back. Why can this happen it might be how your putting on the gel with Androgel you need to spread it over your upper arms and shoulders and down your back as far as you can reach this is half of your dose then do the other side. Just spread it over the area but don't rub it in. The other thing is it's not getting through your skin good so you need more. If you have a thyroid problem your skin will become thicker and gels and creams don't get through the skin and you need to switch to shots. I tell men when they go on Gels to retest in 2 weeks because you can end up feeling worse. Most me just need more gel. Dr.'s that tell men to go on 5 grams of gel and come back in 8 to 12 weeks for labs don't know much about the use of gels. Dr.'s that treat a lot of men for low T on gels see this happen and test them again in 2 weeks. Call your Dr. and tell him this and that your not feeling good you were but fell back. Co-Moderator Phil > From: andrenym007 <no_reply > > Subject: Re: Androgel > > Date: Tuesday, February 9, 2010, 2:18 PM > Thx Phil for your response. You dont > think that it has anything to do with androgel? I used to > feel like that the day after a drinking binge. That > depressed anxious feeling that some people get. That's > why I dont drink anymore! Anyway maybe my body shut down > it's test production a little early and I crashed last > night? > > > > > > > From: andrenym007 <no_reply > > > > Subject: Androgel > > > > > > Date: Monday, February 8, 2010, 8:00 PM > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > > Started taking 5 gram packet on saturday. Doctor > prescribed > > > it to me for low test, I'm 35 and numbers have > been in low > > > 200's for over a year. > > > > > > Today I feel foggy and depressed. Is that normal? > Should I > > > continue with dose? Today I applied it to my abs > as well, > > > can that be why I'm suddenly feeling like this > today? It's > > > only been 3 days, just wondering what's going on. > Just to > > > mention I also have an underactive thyroid and > taking > > > levoxyl for this. > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 I am currently going off androgel and it aint easy. Im doing every other day and the depression has set in. > > After 3 years on Androgel, my T levels are back to the same place that they were when I started in the low 200s. My endo wants me to quit androgel and maybe go on shots. Does anyone have experience with going off of Androgel? My endo seems to think it is no problem to quit cold turkey, but I have read otherwise. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 Hi a123zick, I went off of Androgel and switched to Testosterone Cypionate shots in one day. You should experience no problems at all - and you will probably feel much better in about 72 hours (when you start to feel the effects of the shot). I put my Androgel on in the morning before my appointment with my doctor. After my appointment, his nurse showed me how to give myself a shot in the office. That was my total transition time! <smile> From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of a123zick Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 6:45 PM Subject: Androgel After 3 years on Androgel, my T levels are back to the same place that they were when I started in the low 200s. My endo wants me to quit androgel and maybe go on shots. Does anyone have experience with going off of Androgel? My endo seems to think it is no problem to quit cold turkey, but I have read otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 Hi Shaun, Cutting back on Androgel - especially taking Androgel every other day - is very questionable (and that is putting it nicely). In the literature for Androgel, it talks about how it is necessary to use the product every day in order to maintain proper levels. By taking Androgel every other day, you are going to lower your testosterone levels, your body is NOT going to kick back in and start producing its own testosterone, and you are going to end up with all of the symptoms of Low T again - like depression. There are only a couple of doctors who have any experience with jump starting the body to produce its own testosterone again and I know that their technique does not work like this. I believe that Dr. Crisler (http://www.allthingsmale.com) is one of those doctors with some experience. I just looked back at you previous posts. I do not have any experience with gluten allergies, but I do have experience working with endocrinologists. I went to a Urologist/Endocrinologist who was supposed to specialize in Hypogonadism and a plain old Endocrinologist. In my experience, these two doctors thought they knew everything but actually missed quite a few problems that my current doctor (an Osteopath) found (like low thyroid even with a normal TSH, high estradiols, etc.). I even had an argument with the plain old endocrinologist who tried to tell me that the AACE (American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists) was full of people who are paid by the drug companies and therefore they were not trustworthy. I then said, " but aren't you a member of this group? " and he couldn't deny it. I will never go to an endocrinologist for my hormone problems ever again. From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Shaun Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 7:29 PM Subject: Re: Androgel I am currently going off androgel and it aint easy. Im doing every other day and the depression has set in. > > After 3 years on Androgel, my T levels are back to the same place that they were when I started in the low 200s. My endo wants me to quit androgel and maybe go on shots. Does anyone have experience with going off of Androgel? My endo seems to think it is no problem to quit cold turkey, but I have read otherwise. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2010 Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 This happens your skin is not letting the gels through. Now what can do this is a Thyroid problem your skin can get thicker and not let the gels in. You need to check this out read this link for the labs you need and make sure you test your Cortisol levels. http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/recommended-labwork/ And this link about low Cortisol. http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/ I am finding this is a big problem for men with low T. Then there are men on Gels for yrs and for some reason it just stops working. I don't care for Endo's I have found after seeing 7 of them and talking to thousands of men Endo's are not good Dr.'s for low T. So if you switch to shots and you should do them your self have the Dr. show you how to do them. Don't let him talk you into doing shots every 2 weeks this is old and dose not work. Doing a big 200 mg shot every 2 weeks puts you on a roller coaster ride up after the shot only to fall to low by the next one. So the best way to start on shots is to do a jump start shot 200 mgs then do 100 mgs every week. Do the gel that morning then stop. Men on TRT any kind find there testis get smaller this is because your brain sees the T meds in your blood and stops sending the LH and FSH messages from our brain to your testis and they stop working. Also all the LH cells in your body and brain stop working. Your testis make other hormones even thyroid and Pregnenolone. So we add in to our TRT HCG (Human Chorionic Gonadotropin) we do 250 IU's the 2 days each before the next T shot this helps keep your levels up and your Testis working HCG acts like the LH message sent to your testis to make more T so they go to work the best they can. Also and most Dr. let alone an Endo will not check this or treat it. Have your Estraidol levels checked being on TRT your levels can go up very high this undoes any good the T meds are doing for you and your Free T levels will be very low. We treat this with Arimidex you Estradiol should be at about 20 pg/ml if it's above 30 it can cause big problems and kill your libido and sex life. To learn about TRT go to Dr. 's site at www.allthingsmale.com and read his FAQ's and his paper on TRT: A Recipe for Success and his HCG update. If you read the AACE Guildelines it states to do shots every 7 to 10 days on page 11. http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf Some men do shots 2x's a week I do mine every 3 days and I do 250 IU's of HCG the day before my Test C shot. I read Dr. Shippen does this for his self subQ. He did the book " The Testosterone Syndrome " the book is dated and in it he was down on shots. I use a small 27g 1ml. x 1/2 " lg. needle and shoot into my thigh no pain and I have dam good levels. Here is a link on doing shots also read the info page. http://spotinjections.com/index3.htm Co-Moderator Phil > From: a123zick <TBOZICK1@...> > Subject: Androgel > > Date: Wednesday, November 10, 2010, 7:45 PM > After 3 years on Androgel, my T > levels are back to the same place that they were when I > started in the low 200s. My endo wants me to quit androgel > and maybe go on shots. Does anyone have experience with > going off of Androgel? My endo seems to think it is no > problem to quit cold turkey, but I have read > otherwise. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2010 Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 Why are you doing this do you know this will make you dam sick. If your going off TRT you need to do this with a Dr. that knows how to try to jump start your body again. See if you can get your Dr. to work with Dr. over the phone to do this he is good at this and the best. www.allthingsmale.com If your stopping gels to switch to shots or pellets you don't need to stop one for a time then go on the other. You just switch. Co-Moderator Phil > From: Shaun <shaunskel@...> > Subject: Re: Androgel > > Date: Wednesday, November 10, 2010, 8:28 PM > > I am currently going off androgel and it aint easy. Im > doing every other day and the depression has set in. > > > > > After 3 years on Androgel, my T levels are back to the > same place that they were when I started in the low 200s. My > endo wants me to quit androgel and maybe go on shots. Does > anyone have experience with going off of Androgel? My endo > seems to think it is no problem to quit cold turkey, but I > have read otherwise. > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2010 Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 I have been on HCG for a month and TRT for 8 mos. I am doing .25mg of HCG every Mon Wed Fri I am doing .40mg of T Cyp every 10 day for about the last 4 weeks. My last T Cyp shot was on the 30th of Oct, and my last test showed that my testosterone was over 1300. It seems that the HCG is working for me and I have my next test on the 23rd of Nov. I am planning on not taking anymore T Cyp until after my next test to see what my testosterone level is, and I may not go back on it. Any thoughts. Re: Androgel > <mailto: %40> > Date: Wednesday, November 10, 2010, 8:28 PM > > I am currently going off androgel and it aint easy. Im > doing every other day and the depression has set in. > > > > > After 3 years on Androgel, my T levels are back to the > same place that they were when I started in the low 200s. My > endo wants me to quit androgel and maybe go on shots. Does > anyone have experience with going off of Androgel? My endo > seems to think it is no problem to quit cold turkey, but I > have read otherwise. > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2010 Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 OK but I need to go over something HCG comes in IU's I use Novarel it comes in a 10ml vial and with I mix it it makes 10,000 IU's so 1ml = 1000 IU's it's not mesured in mgs when you say your doing .25mgs do you mean .25 mls this would be 250 IU's. Also it's not good to use HCG the days before doing labs it will spike up your labs and the HCG will make your E2 levels look high. I do shots of Test C every 3 days I do 250 IU's of HCG the day before my Test C shot. When I do labs I don't do the HCG shot the day before my next Test C shot and I do my labs the day of my shot but before it. Now what your saying about your Test C shot .40mgs is very small most Test C comes in an Vial 10mls and is 200mgs/ ml. so if your doing a shot that is .40 mls this would be 80mgs. So if this is what you mean I don't feel your ture levels for your labs are this high. You did your shot first and use HCG the days before your labs and you have a peak level of 1300. I am betting you levels are not over 600. Think about what I am saying and get back to me I hete to see you crash it's not fun. Co-Moderator Phil > > > From: Shaun < shaunskel@...<mailto:shaunskel%40>> > > Subject: Re: Androgel > > <mailto: %40> > > Date: Wednesday, November 10, 2010, 8:28 PM > > > > I am currently going off androgel and it aint easy. > Im > > doing every other day and the depression has set in. > > > > > > > > After 3 years on Androgel, my T levels are back > to the > > same place that they were when I started in the low > 200s. My > > endo wants me to quit androgel and maybe go on shots. > Does > > anyone have experience with going off of Androgel? My > endo > > seems to think it is no problem to quit cold turkey, > but I > > have read otherwise. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2010 Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 Quiting and doing nothing is bad. Quiting and switching to shots is not a problem. Gels use the fat in your skin as a time-release mechanism, so you have a few days in which your T levels will slowly descend. But, if you take your first shot on the day you stop gels, the shot will kick in just when you need it. I did this, going from Testim to shots. Last dose of testim was on a Saturday. First shot was on Sunday. My T levels must have gone up dramatically as indicated by oily skin and acne. IMO, shots are much more potent. > > After 3 years on Androgel, my T levels are back to the same place that they were when I started in the low 200s. My endo wants me to quit androgel and maybe go on shots. Does anyone have experience with going off of Androgel? My endo seems to think it is no problem to quit cold turkey, but I have read otherwise. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2010 Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 I went to a new endo because my old wouldn't help me with my gyno. I started arimidex based on your advice and it is working pretty well to reduce the estradiol but my t levels are still low at about 250. The doc wants me to stop everything (androgel and arimidex) for one month to get new T and E levels. I realize I can't quit cold turkey for a month without crashing. It doesn't make sense for him to tell me this. I liked this endo at first, but now I see that he may be worse than the first one. I'll try to contact Dr. . Thanks. > > > > > > After 3 years on Androgel, my T levels are back to the > > same place that they were when I started in the low 200s. My > > endo wants me to quit androgel and maybe go on shots. Does > > anyone have experience with going off of Androgel? My endo > > seems to think it is no problem to quit cold turkey, but I > > have read otherwise. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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