RE: Guys...I need your help!!

[Guest guest]

Hi and Welcome,

First let me say men with a level for Total Testosterone at 400 and a low level

of Free Testosterone need to do more labs to figure out whats wrong that there

levels are so low.

Yes the patch is old and for someone to use it they need HC cream to heal the

red rash it leaves.

Your going on Androgel at this low starting dose 5 grams I feel took your 400

levels down lower. At the end of this reply I will cut and paste a copy of a

file I made about starting on gels.

You said your LH and FSH was normal can you get a copy of your labs and post

them.

Men need to run labs a lot of them before going on TRT because it's for life you

can't start on it be on it for a time then stop. Your brain sees the

Testosterone meds in your blood and shuts down your HPTA -

hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis. And stopping TRT it just dose not start

back up again.

Did your Dr. test your Estradiol levels if they were high above 40 this can

lower your TT levels to 400 it makes your SHBG go up and this binds up your

Testosteorne and you end up with low Free T.

Getting Estraidol down you can add 200 to 300 Points to your 400 TT levels and

your SHBG will go down and your Free T will go up near the top of the range.

In this link it talks about this the link is about older men but I see this in

younger men.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174

Taking arimidex lowering Estraidol levels will bring up Testosteone.

http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBoostsTestosterone.htm

I am hoping you have not been on TRT long enough to shut down your HPTA and

doing more labs to figure out why your feeling like this and if you find it and

fix it your levels will go back up. TRT is the last thing you want to try.

With high levels of Estraidol E2 your brain can't tell the difference between T

and E2 so when E2 is high your brain thinks it is T and slows down sending the

LH and FSH messages to your testis and they make less T.

Here are some links read them learn about this so when you see a Dr. you know

what your taking about and you will know if he knows.

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=450553

====================================================

According to the Great Smokies Diagnostic Lab, these are the causes of

hypogonadism:

chronic/systemic illness

surgery

chemotherapy

infections

premature aging

testicular trauma

stress

Kleinfelter's syndrome

autoimmune damage

tobacco and alcohol

sleep apnea

excessive heat

obesity

hypercortisolism

medications

hyperthyroidism

malnutrition

?Subtle clinical signs of hypogonadism may include slight gynecomastia

and soft small testes. However, researchers have noted that " the

findings of physical examination in men with adult-onset hypogonadism

are often normal.?

Secondary hypogonadism can develop as a result of hypothalamic or

pituitary disease, obesity, hypothyroidism or other causes. Some

conditions, such as hypercortisolemia, AIDS and severe systemic

illnesses, can trigger hypogonadism through a combination of both

primary and secondary mechanisms.?

---------------------------------------------------

http://www.griffinmedical.com/male_hormone_modulation_therapy.html

Get this book Testosterone: A Man's Guide By by Vergel it's a dam good

book or buy the Kindle from Amazon.com

Here is the cut and paste on what can happen starting on gels.

===================================================

Starting on Androgel or Testim.

Yes this happens a lot you start on a low starting dose 5 grams when your brain

sees the testosterone in your blood even just a little it slows down even stops

sending the LH and FSH message to your testis to make the Testosterone you were

making. So lets say your labs for Total T were 350 you add this dose of gel

your brain sees this and you lose the base level you had before the gel.

Now lets say you need more then 5 grams most do so now all your left with is

what the gel is doing so lets say it's doing 200 so you lost 150.

The reason you feel good is your levels go up that 200 the gel is doing in the

first 2 weeks so your levels go up to 550 in theory. The brain sees this and

you fall back.

Why can this happen it might be how your putting on the gel with Androgel you

need to spread it over your upper arms and shoulders and down your back as far

as you can reach this is half of your dose then do the other side. Just spread

it over the area but don't rub it in.

The other thing is it's not getting through your skin good so you need more. If

you have a thyroid problem your skin will become thicker and gels and creams

don't get through the skin and you need to switch to shots.

I tell men when they go on Gels to retest in 2 weeks because you can end up

feeling worse. Most men just need more gel. Dr.'s that tell men to go on 5

grams of gel and come back in 8 to 12 weeks for labs don't know much about the

use of gels. Dr.'s that treat a lot of men for low T on gels see this happen

and test them again in 2 weeks.

When you go to do labs get up and shower that morning go do your labs and then

put in the gel after your blood test so you don’t spike up your labs. If you

can’t do labs in the morning shower put on the gel but don’t get any gel on

the spot they take the blood from. Do your labs about 6 hrs later.

Call your Dr. and tell him this and that your not feeling good you were but fell

back.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: jscottsmithunc <jscottsmithunc@...>

> Subject: Guys...I need your help!!

>

> Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2011, 6:31 PM

> New guy here.  I am a 41 yo with

> recent extreme fatigue, weight gain and reduced exercise

> tolerance as well as lack of a morning woody.  Found my

> total testosterone to be around 400.  My free was

> 8.5  On my scale the low end of normal was 7.5. This

> was an am test and I would imagine it drops considerably

> during the day.  Anyway, I was prescribed Androderm

> patch which caused a horrific itchy rash on day 2. 

> Felt amazing however.  Much more energy and sex went

> through the roof.  My doc then prescribed

> Androgel.  I used 5mg (4 pumps) and within 2 hours as

> it peaked I had a terrific anxiety attack...felt some

> shortness of breath and a heaviness in my breathing. 

> Went to the emergency room and was told it was an allergic

> reaction and to never take any testosterone again!

> I am really down in the dumps now. Something that helped me

> so much now to not be able to take it.  I do tend to be

> a very stressed guy and have had anxiety for many

> years...panic attacks about 10 years ago.  Have done

> well with no meds etc...just cut out caffeine. 

> This reaction today seemed more like a panic attack and

> anxiety than an allergic reaction.

> I have checked my thyroid and cortisol and they are

> fine.  My LH and FSH were normal as well.  I will

> try to check estradiol and progesterone, though I am

> skeptical that they are the culprit.

> HELP!  Have any of you heard about this

> happening?  None of my friends have ever had any

> reactions to this stuff.  Do I truly stay off of it or

> should I be brave (stupid) and try again at a lower dose and

> then titrate up to 5mg.  Any help is so appreciated.

>

> Thanks Guys!---

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Definitely have your Estradiol levels checked. For men, your levels should

usually be around 20-25, even though the reference range usually gives a top

number of about 56.

If your estradiol levels are high, that could explain your lower

testosterone levels. The brain cannot tell the difference between

testosterone and estradiol, so if your estradiol levels are high, the brain

thinks that you have enough testosterone and sends fewer signals to the

testicles to produce testosterone.

For me, when my estradiol levels get too high, I sometimes experience a

number of symptoms including anxiety and labored breathing and shortness of

breath (I will use my albuterol inhaler just like I was having an asthma

attack). For years, I was diagnosed with asthma. However, once I figured

out how I felt with high estradiol levels, I realized that most of my asthma

was actually just high estradiols.

Phil Georgian explains that he experiences anxiety and panic attacks when

his estradiol levels get too high, too.

Do you have any other common symptoms of high estradiols? Like breast

tissue, increased fat around the abdomen, being overweight (high estradiol

levels cause the body to want to retain fat, and fat cells contain aromatase

which converts testosterone into estradiol, so it becomes a vicious cycle),

insulin resistance (pre-diabetes, diabetes, getting tired after eating,

etc.), prostate problems, depression, anxiety, mood swings, becoming

emotional (like crying at movies), water retention (which can sometimes

result in high blood pressure and this is also what causes labored

breathing), erectile dysfunction, loss of libido, dizziness (when my

estradiols get too high, I get water retention in my ears), etc.

With your history of being a " stressed guy " and having anxiety and panic

attacks in the past, I would venture to guess that you have probably had

high estradiol levels for a while. When you took the androgel, your

estradiol levels just got pushed a little higher and that is why you

experienced those symptoms.

If this is actually the case that your estradiol levels are high, you may be

able to take a drug called " Arimidex " (generic is " anastrozole " ). Arimidex

is an Aromatase Inhibitor that prevents testosterone from converting into

estradiol. The drug is FDA approved for treating women with breast cancer,

but it is extremely common for men to take this drug, too. As you lower

your estradiol levels, your SHBG (Sex Hormone Binding Globulin) levels will

most likely decrease, too (unless you have a case of insulin resistance, but

taking Arimidex can help this, too). SHBG binds to Testosterone and

basically makes it useless to the body. As SHBG levels go down, you will

have more " usable " testosterone available to the body. There is a chance

that you may be able to just take Arimidex and maybe even avoid TRT

completely.

There is also something called " DIM " that is sold over the counter that you

can take. DIM works in a different way that Arimidex - it converts

estradiols into other forms of estrogen that the liver can eliminate easier.

Phil Georgian can give you more information about this.

Post the lab results that you have. Maybe there is something else going on;

many of the people here are very good at interpreting lab results.

Of course, I am not a doctor.

Best of luck!

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of jscottsmithunc

Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 5:32 PM

Subject: Guys...I need your help!!

New guy here. I am a 41 yo with recent extreme fatigue, weight gain and

reduced exercise tolerance as well as lack of a morning woody. Found my

total testosterone to be around 400. My free was 8.5 On my scale the low end

of normal was 7.5. This was an am test and I would imagine it drops

considerably during the day. Anyway, I was prescribed Androderm patch which

caused a horrific itchy rash on day 2. Felt amazing however. Much more

energy and sex went through the roof. My doc then prescribed Androgel. I

used 5mg (4 pumps) and within 2 hours as it peaked I had a terrific anxiety

attack...felt some shortness of breath and a heaviness in my breathing. Went

to the emergency room and was told it was an allergic reaction and to never

take any testosterone again!

I am really down in the dumps now. Something that helped me so much now to

not be able to take it. I do tend to be a very stressed guy and have had

anxiety for many years...panic attacks about 10 years ago. Have done well

with no meds etc...just cut out caffeine.

This reaction today seemed more like a panic attack and anxiety than an

allergic reaction.

I have checked my thyroid and cortisol and they are fine. My LH and FSH were

normal as well. I will try to check estradiol and progesterone, though I am

skeptical that they are the culprit.

HELP! Have any of you heard about this happening? None of my friends have

ever had any reactions to this stuff. Do I truly stay off of it or should I

be brave (stupid) and try again at a lower dose and then titrate up to 5mg.

Any help is so appreciated.

Thanks Guys!---