Guest guest Posted May 30, 2010 Report Share Posted May 30, 2010 Matt Are you the same guy that posted on here about looking young for your age? (from US) Personally I think herbals would offer little in way of benefit and even more so when you consider all the hassle - workign out and diet is likely to offer much more than the herbals. How much endogenoue T your body can produce is another story though. If you tried hCG alongside TRT (whether androgel or injections) maybe you would feel much better and want to keep on that regime even if it was a hassle at times. Like most things I guess once its part of your routine you kind of don't bother about it so much. > > I just wanted to give a quick check in on how I was doing going off HRT. > Some of you know my story, some don't, the short version of the story is I > am 32yrs old now and my total test was 257-263 on two different tests a > little over a week apart. My LH was in the bottom 1/3rd of the range, which > seems to mean I am secondary, MRI is clean for tumors I have not gotten E or > cortisol tests done but that is in the plan eventually. It is my belief > that my low T is due to stress or other factors and not necessarily damage > to my pituitary. I wanted to have T checked because I have had some > difficulty losing weight, specifically the last 30lbs or so, even though I > was in great shape (better then when I was playing football in High school > except I am heavier). I also seem to have a general lack of confidence, I > have a lot of willpower but that is not always enough, when I was younger I > really didn't even need willpower I just had this drive that pushed me to my > goals (I really want that back!). > > At any rate I went on 2.5g of Androgel initially and I did feel a little > better and had no testis atrophy, after several weeks on this dosage my > total T was 347 so my doctor told changed my dosage all the way up to the > 10g mark to see how I do. Unfortunately in the middle of this I was forced > to go on several business trips so I have not been able to follow up with > him, after 2 weeks at this dosage I didn't really feel any different then > when using 2.5g except I knew my system was no longer producing as much T > because my testis were starting to atrophy. I know there is HCG to take > care of this, but again I am out of country on a business trip so I can't > really follow up on that and I did not realize how much atrophy would bother > me psychologically. It is also a nuisance to put on 10g of Androgel every > morning. > > At this point, I seemingly had not really gained much from the Androgel and > being that I cannot follow up with labs at the moment, and that I should not > have low T at 32 anyways, I wanted to go off it and try cycling herbals to > see if I could normalize my T that way. Maybe it is a myth but I have read > some stories of guys going from 250 total T to 800 range when combining > herbals, diet, working out, and controlling E. However I could not find any > guide on how to go off HRT and everything I read was that I would crash if I > just stopped it. The Androgel packet says that within 4-5 days your T will > return to pre-treatment levels so I just reduced my dosage to 5g for 5 days, > and then stopped using Androgel after 5 more days of the 5g. I started the > herbals before I changed the Androgel dosage. > > It has been about a week now since I have been totally off Androgel and only > doing the herbals, honestly I feel very similar as to when I was on HRT > except my libido is actually up and testis are returning to normal. Granted > I don't have any tests to show me where my T is yet and I probably won't for > a couple of weeks because of this business trip, but I think at worst I am > back to my original T range but I would not doubt I am slightly higher at > least just from my feel of things. Keep in mind 250+ T is still a lot better > then some that have been under 200 T without HRT, those guys may crash > really hard when going off HRT. > > For T boost I am taking (cycling through them, originally it was one per day > and cycle through them to avoid the body adapting to them, but currently I > am trying taking 3 of them per day and rotate through): > > Tribulus > Tongkat Ali > Deer Antler Velvet > Horny Goat Weed > Catuaba > Mucuna > > Mon-Fri I am also taking Driven Sports " Activate Extreme " which is a > combination of Stinging Nettle, Icariin, Rhodiola Rosea, pine bark, I3C, > Basella Alba, and Zinc. I am also taking up to 10g of fish oil a day in > divided doses, as it is these type of fats that supposedly support > testosterone production. > > For E suppression I am taking these daily, maybe I need to alternate? I > don't know my E levels but considering I sometimes feel more emotional then > I should I think its at best normal-high. I will do labs when I get back to > my normal routine: > > Resveratrol > DIM > Chrysin > > I am also rotating between Rhodiola and Ashwanaghanda daily since I am under > a lot of stress (I worked a 20hr day Friday!), I may need to find a better > way to do these so my body does not adapt. > > If anyone else has any suggestions on herbals to add to this rotation please > let me know, I think I should try to get Maca into the bunch and there may > be others I have not had much time to research due to work. > > My physical activity has plummeted since being on these business trips, I > used to workout 12-15hrs a week between martial arts and general workouts > and lately its been relatively nothing. I originally tried to keep up with > workouts but when your working 12hr+ days its very hard to get up earlier > then normal to do them. Food has also been a chore, I am a stress eater so > that has been a huge battle and I have been drinking more then I ever have > to unwind (which can lower T from what I read because it can cause muscle > wasting and fat storage, the hops also have phytoestrogens). > > At any rate I am trying this route out, I think if I can lower my stress, > get my workouts going again, get at least 7hrs of sleep each night, and get > my diet in check I will probably feel even better. I may also explore > acupuncture to see if there is anything I can gain from that. I may not be > able to reach 800 readings but if i could get to 450-500 range I think I > would feel better and could live with that and I would still have room for > TRT when I am much older. I am not saying this will work for everyone who > is secondary or even work for me, but I thought I would share my experience > thus far. > > If anyone else has more suggestions on how to naturally build T please send > them my way. > > -Matt > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2010 Report Share Posted May 30, 2010 I am from the US and I do look young for my age but not dramatically, people often think I am 23-25 (I am 32). The one thing about herbals is in the past before I knew I had low T I had tried some herbals, and for a few days to a week I would feel really good but it always went away. I found a site that suggested cycling through them to avoid the body adapting to them, it makes sense so that is why I am trying it. Before my business trip I was taking supplements 6 times a day because I was on a medically supervised diet of only ~1k calories so I needed additional help with nutrients, I am used to taking supplements now so its not that much a hassle. Considering I was at ~260 total T with LH being at 1/3rd of the range I think my body could produce sufficient T if it was told to produce more. I also think this is stress related, I know stress can cause a lot of things and I have a history of this somewhat. Once when I was only like 14 I gained 30lbs over the course of a summer because I had to move to a new state and had trouble making friends (total environment change, I went from very small town in AR to a HUGE town in TX). I eventually was able to move back and finish high school in AR, I then lost that 30lbs in about a month without even trying. In fact I was not even on the football team due to guardianship issues (1 year living with guardian before they let you play) so I was not working out, also I was living with my sister instead of my parents (aka lots of fast food vs home cooked meals). It is amazing what your mental state can do to your body, I think this is my case even now. Is HGG ever successful as sole treatment? It is only via injections right? Any side effects related to this? -Matt On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 1:36 PM, chrisdl2008 <chrisdl2008@...> wrote: > > > Matt > > Are you the same guy that posted on here about looking young for your age? > (from US) > > Personally I think herbals would offer little in way of benefit and even > more so when you consider all the hassle - workign out and diet is likely to > offer much more than the herbals. How much endogenoue T your body can > produce is another story though. > > If you tried hCG alongside TRT (whether androgel or injections) maybe you > would feel much better and want to keep on that regime even if it was a > hassle at times. Like most things I guess once its part of your routine you > kind of don't bother about it so much. > > > > > > > I just wanted to give a quick check in on how I was doing going off HRT. > > Some of you know my story, some don't, the short version of the story is > I > > am 32yrs old now and my total test was 257-263 on two different tests a > > little over a week apart. My LH was in the bottom 1/3rd of the range, > which > > seems to mean I am secondary, MRI is clean for tumors I have not gotten E > or > > cortisol tests done but that is in the plan eventually. It is my belief > > that my low T is due to stress or other factors and not necessarily > damage > > to my pituitary. I wanted to have T checked because I have had some > > difficulty losing weight, specifically the last 30lbs or so, even though > I > > was in great shape (better then when I was playing football in High > school > > except I am heavier). I also seem to have a general lack of confidence, I > > have a lot of willpower but that is not always enough, when I was younger > I > > really didn't even need willpower I just had this drive that pushed me to > my > > goals (I really want that back!). > > > > At any rate I went on 2.5g of Androgel initially and I did feel a little > > better and had no testis atrophy, after several weeks on this dosage my > > total T was 347 so my doctor told changed my dosage all the way up to the > > 10g mark to see how I do. Unfortunately in the middle of this I was > forced > > to go on several business trips so I have not been able to follow up with > > him, after 2 weeks at this dosage I didn't really feel any different then > > when using 2.5g except I knew my system was no longer producing as much T > > because my testis were starting to atrophy. I know there is HCG to take > > care of this, but again I am out of country on a business trip so I can't > > really follow up on that and I did not realize how much atrophy would > bother > > me psychologically. It is also a nuisance to put on 10g of Androgel every > > morning. > > > > At this point, I seemingly had not really gained much from the Androgel > and > > being that I cannot follow up with labs at the moment, and that I should > not > > have low T at 32 anyways, I wanted to go off it and try cycling herbals > to > > see if I could normalize my T that way. Maybe it is a myth but I have > read > > some stories of guys going from 250 total T to 800 range when combining > > herbals, diet, working out, and controlling E. However I could not find > any > > guide on how to go off HRT and everything I read was that I would crash > if I > > just stopped it. The Androgel packet says that within 4-5 days your T > will > > return to pre-treatment levels so I just reduced my dosage to 5g for 5 > days, > > and then stopped using Androgel after 5 more days of the 5g. I started > the > > herbals before I changed the Androgel dosage. > > > > It has been about a week now since I have been totally off Androgel and > only > > doing the herbals, honestly I feel very similar as to when I was on HRT > > except my libido is actually up and testis are returning to normal. > Granted > > I don't have any tests to show me where my T is yet and I probably won't > for > > a couple of weeks because of this business trip, but I think at worst I > am > > back to my original T range but I would not doubt I am slightly higher at > > least just from my feel of things. Keep in mind 250+ T is still a lot > better > > then some that have been under 200 T without HRT, those guys may crash > > really hard when going off HRT. > > > > For T boost I am taking (cycling through them, originally it was one per > day > > and cycle through them to avoid the body adapting to them, but currently > I > > am trying taking 3 of them per day and rotate through): > > > > Tribulus > > Tongkat Ali > > Deer Antler Velvet > > Horny Goat Weed > > Catuaba > > Mucuna > > > > Mon-Fri I am also taking Driven Sports " Activate Extreme " which is a > > combination of Stinging Nettle, Icariin, Rhodiola Rosea, pine bark, I3C, > > Basella Alba, and Zinc. I am also taking up to 10g of fish oil a day in > > divided doses, as it is these type of fats that supposedly support > > testosterone production. > > > > For E suppression I am taking these daily, maybe I need to alternate? I > > don't know my E levels but considering I sometimes feel more emotional > then > > I should I think its at best normal-high. I will do labs when I get back > to > > my normal routine: > > > > Resveratrol > > DIM > > Chrysin > > > > I am also rotating between Rhodiola and Ashwanaghanda daily since I am > under > > a lot of stress (I worked a 20hr day Friday!), I may need to find a > better > > way to do these so my body does not adapt. > > > > If anyone else has any suggestions on herbals to add to this rotation > please > > let me know, I think I should try to get Maca into the bunch and there > may > > be others I have not had much time to research due to work. > > > > My physical activity has plummeted since being on these business trips, I > > used to workout 12-15hrs a week between martial arts and general workouts > > and lately its been relatively nothing. I originally tried to keep up > with > > workouts but when your working 12hr+ days its very hard to get up earlier > > then normal to do them. Food has also been a chore, I am a stress eater > so > > that has been a huge battle and I have been drinking more then I ever > have > > to unwind (which can lower T from what I read because it can cause muscle > > wasting and fat storage, the hops also have phytoestrogens). > > > > At any rate I am trying this route out, I think if I can lower my stress, > > get my workouts going again, get at least 7hrs of sleep each night, and > get > > my diet in check I will probably feel even better. I may also explore > > acupuncture to see if there is anything I can gain from that. I may not > be > > able to reach 800 readings but if i could get to 450-500 range I think I > > would feel better and could live with that and I would still have room > for > > TRT when I am much older. I am not saying this will work for everyone who > > is secondary or even work for me, but I thought I would share my > experience > > thus far. > > > > If anyone else has more suggestions on how to naturally build T please > send > > them my way. > > > > -Matt > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2010 Report Share Posted May 30, 2010 I believe HCG will supress your HPTA. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile Re: Re: First week off HRT I am from the US and I do look young for my age but not dramatically, people often think I am 23-25 (I am 32). The one thing about herbals is in the past before I knew I had low T I had tried some herbals, and for a few days to a week I would feel really good but it always went away. I found a site that suggested cycling through them to avoid the body adapting to them, it makes sense so that is why I am trying it. Before my business trip I was taking supplements 6 times a day because I was on a medically supervised diet of only ~1k calories so I needed additional help with nutrients, I am used to taking supplements now so its not that much a hassle. Considering I was at ~260 total T with LH being at 1/3rd of the range I think my body could produce sufficient T if it was told to produce more. I also think this is stress related, I know stress can cause a lot of things and I have a history of this somewhat. Once when I was only like 14 I gained 30lbs over the course of a summer because I had to move to a new state and had trouble making friends (total environment change, I went from very small town in AR to a HUGE town in TX). I eventually was able to move back and finish high school in AR, I then lost that 30lbs in about a month without even trying. In fact I was not even on the football team due to guardianship issues (1 year living with guardian before they let you play) so I was not working out, also I was living with my sister instead of my parents (aka lots of fast food vs home cooked meals). It is amazing what your mental state can do to your body, I think this is my case even now. Is HGG ever successful as sole treatment? It is only via injections right? Any side effects related to this? -Matt On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 1:36 PM, chrisdl2008 <chrisdl2008@...> wrote: > > > Matt > > Are you the same guy that posted on here about looking young for your age? > (from US) > > Personally I think herbals would offer little in way of benefit and even > more so when you consider all the hassle - workign out and diet is likely to > offer much more than the herbals. How much endogenoue T your body can > produce is another story though. > > If you tried hCG alongside TRT (whether androgel or injections) maybe you > would feel much better and want to keep on that regime even if it was a > hassle at times. Like most things I guess once its part of your routine you > kind of don't bother about it so much. > > > > > > > I just wanted to give a quick check in on how I was doing going off HRT. > > Some of you know my story, some don't, the short version of the story is > I > > am 32yrs old now and my total test was 257-263 on two different tests a > > little over a week apart. My LH was in the bottom 1/3rd of the range, > which > > seems to mean I am secondary, MRI is clean for tumors I have not gotten E > or > > cortisol tests done but that is in the plan eventually. It is my belief > > that my low T is due to stress or other factors and not necessarily > damage > > to my pituitary. I wanted to have T checked because I have had some > > difficulty losing weight, specifically the last 30lbs or so, even though > I > > was in great shape (better then when I was playing football in High > school > > except I am heavier). I also seem to have a general lack of confidence, I > > have a lot of willpower but that is not always enough, when I was younger > I > > really didn't even need willpower I just had this drive that pushed me to > my > > goals (I really want that back!). > > > > At any rate I went on 2.5g of Androgel initially and I did feel a little > > better and had no testis atrophy, after several weeks on this dosage my > > total T was 347 so my doctor told changed my dosage all the way up to the > > 10g mark to see how I do. Unfortunately in the middle of this I was > forced > > to go on several business trips so I have not been able to follow up with > > him, after 2 weeks at this dosage I didn't really feel any different then > > when using 2.5g except I knew my system was no longer producing as much T > > because my testis were starting to atrophy. I know there is HCG to take > > care of this, but again I am out of country on a business trip so I can't > > really follow up on that and I did not realize how much atrophy would > bother > > me psychologically. It is also a nuisance to put on 10g of Androgel every > > morning. > > > > At this point, I seemingly had not really gained much from the Androgel > and > > being that I cannot follow up with labs at the moment, and that I should > not > > have low T at 32 anyways, I wanted to go off it and try cycling herbals > to > > see if I could normalize my T that way. Maybe it is a myth but I have > read > > some stories of guys going from 250 total T to 800 range when combining > > herbals, diet, working out, and controlling E. However I could not find > any > > guide on how to go off HRT and everything I read was that I would crash > if I > > just stopped it. The Androgel packet says that within 4-5 days your T > will > > return to pre-treatment levels so I just reduced my dosage to 5g for 5 > days, > > and then stopped using Androgel after 5 more days of the 5g. I started > the > > herbals before I changed the Androgel dosage. > > > > It has been about a week now since I have been totally off Androgel and > only > > doing the herbals, honestly I feel very similar as to when I was on HRT > > except my libido is actually up and testis are returning to normal. > Granted > > I don't have any tests to show me where my T is yet and I probably won't > for > > a couple of weeks because of this business trip, but I think at worst I > am > > back to my original T range but I would not doubt I am slightly higher at > > least just from my feel of things. Keep in mind 250+ T is still a lot > better > > then some that have been under 200 T without HRT, those guys may crash > > really hard when going off HRT. > > > > For T boost I am taking (cycling through them, originally it was one per > day > > and cycle through them to avoid the body adapting to them, but currently > I > > am trying taking 3 of them per day and rotate through): > > > > Tribulus > > Tongkat Ali > > Deer Antler Velvet > > Horny Goat Weed > > Catuaba > > Mucuna > > > > Mon-Fri I am also taking Driven Sports " Activate Extreme " which is a > > combination of Stinging Nettle, Icariin, Rhodiola Rosea, pine bark, I3C, > > Basella Alba, and Zinc. I am also taking up to 10g of fish oil a day in > > divided doses, as it is these type of fats that supposedly support > > testosterone production. > > > > For E suppression I am taking these daily, maybe I need to alternate? I > > don't know my E levels but considering I sometimes feel more emotional > then > > I should I think its at best normal-high. I will do labs when I get back > to > > my normal routine: > > > > Resveratrol > > DIM > > Chrysin > > > > I am also rotating between Rhodiola and Ashwanaghanda daily since I am > under > > a lot of stress (I worked a 20hr day Friday!), I may need to find a > better > > way to do these so my body does not adapt. > > > > If anyone else has any suggestions on herbals to add to this rotation > please > > let me know, I think I should try to get Maca into the bunch and there > may > > be others I have not had much time to research due to work. > > > > My physical activity has plummeted since being on these business trips, I > > used to workout 12-15hrs a week between martial arts and general workouts > > and lately its been relatively nothing. I originally tried to keep up > with > > workouts but when your working 12hr+ days its very hard to get up earlier > > then normal to do them. Food has also been a chore, I am a stress eater > so > > that has been a huge battle and I have been drinking more then I ever > have > > to unwind (which can lower T from what I read because it can cause muscle > > wasting and fat storage, the hops also have phytoestrogens). > > > > At any rate I am trying this route out, I think if I can lower my stress, > > get my workouts going again, get at least 7hrs of sleep each night, and > get > > my diet in check I will probably feel even better. I may also explore > > acupuncture to see if there is anything I can gain from that. I may not > be > > able to reach 800 readings but if i could get to 450-500 range I think I > > would feel better and could live with that and I would still have room > for > > TRT when I am much older. I am not saying this will work for everyone who > > is secondary or even work for me, but I thought I would share my > experience > > thus far. > > > > If anyone else has more suggestions on how to naturally build T please > send > > them my way. > > > > -Matt > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2010 Report Share Posted May 30, 2010 We have a lot of things in common. My total T was lower than yours, as in 209, but I am also 48. My LH was also in the lower 1/3 of range, and I also had an MRI of the head. I do not have those results yet, but I presume if anything horrible was seen I would have been called by now. I see my doc Tuesday, and will find out everything then. My next path is testing for Estrogen,......I believe you should as well. IMHO nobody should go on TRT without having this tested. Phil could tell you why, but basically the pituitary sees high estrogen as T and can shut down the LH signal thinking everything is fine. Also like you I have tremendous stress levels, and I also have been a heavy consumer of beer. I am in process of quitting totally due to obvious reasons. The various 'herbs' are up to you, but it sounds like quite a cocktail to me. Herbs can be dangerous,.....just like drugs can. Keep that in mind as they are NOT vitamins. Some can fry your liver and have horrendous side effects as well. I stay away from herbs if you can't tell! LOL Myself I would not take anything until you are off the sauce, and get the other blood tests done, but that is me. Wish you luck on your journey though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2010 Report Share Posted May 30, 2010 Matt I mentioned the 'looking young' thing as I thought I rememberd one of your previous posts so I was right enough in confirming. Your TT is similar to mine and I'm also about same age (31 and look 23ish). My LH and FSH though are mid range @ ~ 4.5 U/l for both. Others here have already replied but yes I believe hCG is a valid treatment on its own if secondary hypo. An hCG stimulation test would help confirm this (or not as the case maybe) anyway as part of a diagnostic work-up. Of course up to you to follow the herbal route - personally I would think that this would be fruitless i.e. little if any gain. I think finding out for definite the root cause of your low T (if not known already) and getting proper treatment for that root cause would prove to be time well (and better) spent. IMHO of course ... > > > > > > I just wanted to give a quick check in on how I was doing going off HRT. > > > Some of you know my story, some don't, the short version of the story is > > I > > > am 32yrs old now and my total test was 257-263 on two different tests a > > > little over a week apart. My LH was in the bottom 1/3rd of the range, > > which > > > seems to mean I am secondary, MRI is clean for tumors I have not gotten E > > or > > > cortisol tests done but that is in the plan eventually. It is my belief > > > that my low T is due to stress or other factors and not necessarily > > damage > > > to my pituitary. I wanted to have T checked because I have had some > > > difficulty losing weight, specifically the last 30lbs or so, even though > > I > > > was in great shape (better then when I was playing football in High > > school > > > except I am heavier). I also seem to have a general lack of confidence, I > > > have a lot of willpower but that is not always enough, when I was younger > > I > > > really didn't even need willpower I just had this drive that pushed me to > > my > > > goals (I really want that back!). > > > > > > At any rate I went on 2.5g of Androgel initially and I did feel a little > > > better and had no testis atrophy, after several weeks on this dosage my > > > total T was 347 so my doctor told changed my dosage all the way up to the > > > 10g mark to see how I do. Unfortunately in the middle of this I was > > forced > > > to go on several business trips so I have not been able to follow up with > > > him, after 2 weeks at this dosage I didn't really feel any different then > > > when using 2.5g except I knew my system was no longer producing as much T > > > because my testis were starting to atrophy. I know there is HCG to take > > > care of this, but again I am out of country on a business trip so I can't > > > really follow up on that and I did not realize how much atrophy would > > bother > > > me psychologically. It is also a nuisance to put on 10g of Androgel every > > > morning. > > > > > > At this point, I seemingly had not really gained much from the Androgel > > and > > > being that I cannot follow up with labs at the moment, and that I should > > not > > > have low T at 32 anyways, I wanted to go off it and try cycling herbals > > to > > > see if I could normalize my T that way. Maybe it is a myth but I have > > read > > > some stories of guys going from 250 total T to 800 range when combining > > > herbals, diet, working out, and controlling E. However I could not find > > any > > > guide on how to go off HRT and everything I read was that I would crash > > if I > > > just stopped it. The Androgel packet says that within 4-5 days your T > > will > > > return to pre-treatment levels so I just reduced my dosage to 5g for 5 > > days, > > > and then stopped using Androgel after 5 more days of the 5g. I started > > the > > > herbals before I changed the Androgel dosage. > > > > > > It has been about a week now since I have been totally off Androgel and > > only > > > doing the herbals, honestly I feel very similar as to when I was on HRT > > > except my libido is actually up and testis are returning to normal. > > Granted > > > I don't have any tests to show me where my T is yet and I probably won't > > for > > > a couple of weeks because of this business trip, but I think at worst I > > am > > > back to my original T range but I would not doubt I am slightly higher at > > > least just from my feel of things. Keep in mind 250+ T is still a lot > > better > > > then some that have been under 200 T without HRT, those guys may crash > > > really hard when going off HRT. > > > > > > For T boost I am taking (cycling through them, originally it was one per > > day > > > and cycle through them to avoid the body adapting to them, but currently > > I > > > am trying taking 3 of them per day and rotate through): > > > > > > Tribulus > > > Tongkat Ali > > > Deer Antler Velvet > > > Horny Goat Weed > > > Catuaba > > > Mucuna > > > > > > Mon-Fri I am also taking Driven Sports " Activate Extreme " which is a > > > combination of Stinging Nettle, Icariin, Rhodiola Rosea, pine bark, I3C, > > > Basella Alba, and Zinc. I am also taking up to 10g of fish oil a day in > > > divided doses, as it is these type of fats that supposedly support > > > testosterone production. > > > > > > For E suppression I am taking these daily, maybe I need to alternate? I > > > don't know my E levels but considering I sometimes feel more emotional > > then > > > I should I think its at best normal-high. I will do labs when I get back > > to > > > my normal routine: > > > > > > Resveratrol > > > DIM > > > Chrysin > > > > > > I am also rotating between Rhodiola and Ashwanaghanda daily since I am > > under > > > a lot of stress (I worked a 20hr day Friday!), I may need to find a > > better > > > way to do these so my body does not adapt. > > > > > > If anyone else has any suggestions on herbals to add to this rotation > > please > > > let me know, I think I should try to get Maca into the bunch and there > > may > > > be others I have not had much time to research due to work. > > > > > > My physical activity has plummeted since being on these business trips, I > > > used to workout 12-15hrs a week between martial arts and general workouts > > > and lately its been relatively nothing. I originally tried to keep up > > with > > > workouts but when your working 12hr+ days its very hard to get up earlier > > > then normal to do them. Food has also been a chore, I am a stress eater > > so > > > that has been a huge battle and I have been drinking more then I ever > > have > > > to unwind (which can lower T from what I read because it can cause muscle > > > wasting and fat storage, the hops also have phytoestrogens). > > > > > > At any rate I am trying this route out, I think if I can lower my stress, > > > get my workouts going again, get at least 7hrs of sleep each night, and > > get > > > my diet in check I will probably feel even better. I may also explore > > > acupuncture to see if there is anything I can gain from that. I may not > > be > > > able to reach 800 readings but if i could get to 450-500 range I think I > > > would feel better and could live with that and I would still have room > > for > > > TRT when I am much older. I am not saying this will work for everyone who > > > is secondary or even work for me, but I thought I would share my > > experience > > > thus far. > > > > > > If anyone else has more suggestions on how to naturally build T please > > send > > > them my way. > > > > > > -Matt > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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