Guest guest Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 Of course they wouldn't know because *multiple* clinical studies haven't been done on supraphysiological doses of steroids because of their status as a controlled substance. (That's not to say that there haven't been any studies of nandrolone or testosterone being used at around 500 mg for several weeks [see Bhasin's articles on pubmed, including this one: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8637535]). However, there's little to no data in the official literature other than anecdotes mentioning penile shrinkage from discontinuing androgens. It is assumed that most men who had " normal " levels of T prior to steroid use will eventually resume normal testosterone production & not remain hypogonadal. In the article you cited, the penile atrophy would probably be explained by lack of nocturnal erections and general erectile dysfunction from androgen deprivation ( & perhaps prolactin increasing around the same time). Based on the similarity of nandrolone to forms of testosterone, others have speculated that when nandrolone is converted to dihyronandrolone by the 5 alpha reductase enzyme, it ends up competing with and displacing dihydrotestosterone for receptors in the penis. In some men, upon discontinuation of nandrolone/other steroids, DHT does not return to pre-steroid administration levels. This induces long lasting erectile dysfunction & perhaps penile atrophy as a result. I think I asked before, but what are your DHT levels? ~Xian > > when I talk about some of my side effects to doctors...I get indirect responses of that doesn't happen or this is crazy...direct response of there is nothing we can do. when of my biggest side effects of stopping cold on steroids at the age of 18 was penile shrinkage due to crashing my testosterone level and low LH. the only medical research I found supporting such anatomy occurances is this link.... > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17162022 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 Why do you read that crap you are not even on radioactive treatment. Co-Moderator Phil > From: justinm <jtmoy19607@...> > Subject: interesting weblink > > Date: Sunday, April 3, 2011, 2:10 PM > when I talk about some of my side > effects to doctors...I get indirect responses of that > doesn't happen or this is crazy...direct response of there > is nothing we can do. when of my biggest side effects of > stopping cold on steroids at the age of 18 was penile > shrinkage due to crashing my testosterone level and low LH. > the only medical research I found supporting such anatomy > occurances is this link.... > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17162022 > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 He's trying to find a clinical trial or reputable source indicating that androgen deprivation can cause penile atrophy which he experienced since discontinuing steroids. One can experience atrophy without having to undergo beam therapy along with it. justinm, I failed to notice you said you had low levels of DHT in message # 68870 . When was the test and what was the result? > > > From: justinm <jtmoy19607@...> > > Subject: interesting weblink > > > > Date: Sunday, April 3, 2011, 2:10 PM > > when I talk about some of my side > > effects to doctors...I get indirect responses of that > > doesn't happen or this is crazy...direct response of there > > is nothing we can do. when of my biggest side effects of > > stopping cold on steroids at the age of 18 was penile > > shrinkage due to crashing my testosterone level and low LH. > > the only medical research I found supporting such anatomy > > occurances is this link.... > > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17162022 > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 hi,  unfortunately, i am still struggling to find the doctor I need as DHT is rarely tested. The last test I had done that included dht was back in 2006, when I was on profasi (hcg) from dr. shippen he checked it multiple times and it showed. my dht in normal range, about 10% of what my total t was...in 2003 it was 49 when total t was 452..range of dhtt was 25 to 75. But my estrogen was 56 <52 is considered normal.  similar results on hcg, unfortunately it was high dose hcgg from 2003 to 2006 and therefore estrogen was too high.  it has not been checked since then...even when i was on high dose test. ethanate from 2006 to 2008; it was never checked. Nor on androgel I have never had it checked. need to find a good doctor.  A couple other things I found in my reading. ..I know that viagra and all of those drugs increase LH. so it seems to me penis and lh is related not just...testes and lh.  another thing of interest is this study which shows that testosterone replacement can help to wake up the hypothalamus, which is the opposite of what endocrrinologists would say. These docs in this study speculate that the t replacement might regrow neurons in the brain:  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17761590 http://www.hypohh.net/latestnews/NEJMArt.pdf            From: d00fu524 <calvin1564@...> Subject: Re: interesting weblink Date: Sunday, April 3, 2011, 3:09 PM  Of course they wouldn't know because *multiple* clinical studies haven't been done on supraphysiological doses of steroids because of their status as a controlled substance. (That's not to say that there haven't been any studies of nandrolone or testosterone being used at around 500 mg for several weeks [see Bhasin's articles on pubmed, including this one: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8637535]). However, there's little to no data in the official literature other than anecdotes mentioning penile shrinkage from discontinuing androgens. It is assumed that most men who had " normal " levels of T prior to steroid use will eventually resume normal testosterone production & not remain hypogonadal. In the article you cited, the penile atrophy would probably be explained by lack of nocturnal erections and general erectile dysfunction from androgen deprivation ( & perhaps prolactin increasing around the same time). Based on the similarity of nandrolone to forms of testosterone, others have speculated that when nandrolone is converted to dihyronandrolone by the 5 alpha reductase enzyme, it ends up competing with and displacing dihydrotestosterone for receptors in the penis. In some men, upon discontinuation of nandrolone/other steroids, DHT does not return to pre-steroid administration levels. This induces long lasting erectile dysfunction & perhaps penile atrophy as a result. I think I asked before, but what are your DHT levels? ~Xian > > when I talk about some of my side effects to doctors...I get indirect responses of that doesn't happen or this is crazy...direct response of there is nothing we can do. when of my biggest side effects of stopping cold on steroids at the age of 18 was penile shrinkage due to crashing my testosterone level and low LH. the only medical research I found supporting such anatomy occurances is this link.... > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17162022 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 phil,  calvin nailed it, I was researching penile atrophy and that is what I found, there are studies of radiation alone and it leads to atrophy but much less of it. then the combination with hormones. basically the stopping cold on the steroids is the same as an LH agonist as I had shut down my LH and didn't give it time to restart and then let all exogenous testostterone leave my body and I " crashed " .  When I tell doctors about the atrophy or even testosterone replacement all together, it reminds me of the way the medical community used to say the brain doesn't grow new neurons....but now they know differently.  From: d00fu524 <calvin1564@...> Subject: Re: interesting weblink Date: Sunday, April 3, 2011, 3:27 PM  He's trying to find a clinical trial or reputable source indicating that androgen deprivation can cause penile atrophy which he experienced since discontinuing steroids. One can experience atrophy without having to undergo beam therapy along with it. justinm, I failed to notice you said you had low levels of DHT in message # 68870 . When was the test and what was the result? > > > From: justinm <jtmoy19607@...> > > Subject: interesting weblink > > > > Date: Sunday, April 3, 2011, 2:10 PM > > when I talk about some of my side > > effects to doctors...I get indirect responses of that > > doesn't happen or this is crazy...direct response of there > > is nothing we can do. when of my biggest side effects of > > stopping cold on steroids at the age of 18 was penile > > shrinkage due to crashing my testosterone level and low LH. > > the only medical research I found supporting such anatomy > > occurances is this link.... > > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17162022 > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 even mainstream media picked up on this...not sure who caught the story  http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16582687/ns/health-mens_health/ From: d00fu524 <calvin1564@...> Subject: Re: interesting weblink Date: Sunday, April 3, 2011, 3:09 PM  Of course they wouldn't know because *multiple* clinical studies haven't been done on supraphysiological doses of steroids because of their status as a controlled substance. (That's not to say that there haven't been any studies of nandrolone or testosterone being used at around 500 mg for several weeks [see Bhasin's articles on pubmed, including this one: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8637535]). However, there's little to no data in the official literature other than anecdotes mentioning penile shrinkage from discontinuing androgens. It is assumed that most men who had " normal " levels of T prior to steroid use will eventually resume normal testosterone production & not remain hypogonadal. In the article you cited, the penile atrophy would probably be explained by lack of nocturnal erections and general erectile dysfunction from androgen deprivation ( & perhaps prolactin increasing around the same time). Based on the similarity of nandrolone to forms of testosterone, others have speculated that when nandrolone is converted to dihyronandrolone by the 5 alpha reductase enzyme, it ends up competing with and displacing dihydrotestosterone for receptors in the penis. In some men, upon discontinuation of nandrolone/other steroids, DHT does not return to pre-steroid administration levels. This induces long lasting erectile dysfunction & perhaps penile atrophy as a result. I think I asked before, but what are your DHT levels? ~Xian > > when I talk about some of my side effects to doctors...I get indirect responses of that doesn't happen or this is crazy...direct response of there is nothing we can do. when of my biggest side effects of stopping cold on steroids at the age of 18 was penile shrinkage due to crashing my testosterone level and low LH. the only medical research I found supporting such anatomy occurances is this link.... > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17162022 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 them links are rare case's of Secondary Hypogonadism I don't feel this applys to most of us here. As for DHT here is a good link I have about it and they are hard to find with all the Hair Add's out there. I don't feel it's as big a problem as you feel it is. http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/reform8.htm Co-Moderator Phil > > > From: d00fu524 <calvin1564@...> > Subject: Re: interesting weblink > > Date: Sunday, April 3, 2011, 3:09 PM > > > > > > > Of course they wouldn't know because *multiple* clinical > studies haven't been done on supraphysiological doses of > steroids because of their status as a controlled substance. > (That's not to say that there haven't been any studies of > nandrolone or testosterone being used at around 500 mg for > several weeks [see Bhasin's articles on pubmed, including > this one: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8637535]). However, > there's little to no data in the official literature other > than anecdotes mentioning penile shrinkage from > discontinuing androgens. It is assumed that most men who had > " normal " levels of T prior to steroid use will eventually > resume normal testosterone production & not remain > hypogonadal. > > In the article you cited, the penile atrophy would probably > be explained by lack of nocturnal erections and general > erectile dysfunction from androgen deprivation ( & > perhaps prolactin increasing around the same time). Based on > the similarity of nandrolone to forms of testosterone, > others have speculated that when nandrolone is converted to > dihyronandrolone by the 5 alpha reductase enzyme, it ends up > competing with and displacing dihydrotestosterone for > receptors in the penis. In some men, upon discontinuation of > nandrolone/other steroids, DHT does not return to > pre-steroid administration levels. This induces long lasting > erectile dysfunction & perhaps penile atrophy as a > result. > > I think I asked before, but what are your DHT levels? > > ~Xian > > > > > > when I talk about some of my side effects to > doctors...I get indirect responses of that doesn't happen or > this is crazy...direct response of there is nothing we can > do. when of my biggest side effects of stopping cold on > steroids at the age of 18 was penile shrinkage due to > crashing my testosterone level and low LH. the only medical > research I found supporting such anatomy occurances is this > link.... > > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17162022 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Here is what happened to me I started on TRT my TT levels were 120 and was 37 still having sex 2 to 3 x's / wk. I suffered from fatigue and bad brain fog never ED. After a time of all this fatigue I was very inactive and gained weight. As I got near my 50's I started getting ED and lost my libido. I suffered with this for 10 yrs needing to use a penis pump to pump it up and a penis ring to keep it up for sex. Also I could not reach an orgasm with out having a heart attack doing it. As I got into my late 50's we here started learning about high Estraidol back then no one talked about except Bodybuilding Forums. I tested this Estraidol at the time all the labs had were women's tests. The range only went down to 20 I tested above the top of the range. Now for the loss of size of my penis even using a pump in the soft state it was very small 1/2 " lg. or less. Before this E2 problem is was in the way about 4 " or more long. The first thing I found to happen getting my E2 down was my night time and morning wood came back I had lost it many yrs. ago. I never payed much att. to it's loss I felt it was an age problem. In time keeping my E2 down and having strong night time and morning wood my penis was working again like it did when I was in my 20's. And in the soft state is was in the way again hanging about 4 " 's lg. The dam thing about all this is I still did not feel like having sex. Loss of Libido but I found in time the longer I had night time and morning wood keeping my E2 levels in the sweet spot my libido was coming back. Now for the said part when I first got ED I made it a point to take care of my wife. Now that we both are in our 60's she could care less about having it. With her I don't feel it's a hormone thing I feel it's about my having Heart Bypass Surgery and she is worryied about me dieing doing it. When we were younger in our 20's a neighbor die on his wife having sex from a Heart Attack. Later her friend same thing. I keep telling her I am going to go what a great way to go. So here I sit lucky to have sex once a week most of the time it's 2 x's a week. I even bought the Wonder Wave Flash light. http://www.fleshlight.com/fleshlight-toys/sleeves/wonder-wave/?link=209352 I never got to try it she pitched it. Co-Moderator Phil > > > From: d00fu524 <calvin1564@...> > Subject: Re: interesting weblink > > Date: Sunday, April 3, 2011, 3:27 PM > > > > > > > He's trying to find a clinical trial or reputable source > indicating that androgen deprivation can cause penile > atrophy which he experienced since discontinuing steroids. > One can experience atrophy without having to undergo beam > therapy along with it. > > justinm, I failed to notice you said you had low levels of > DHT in message # 68870 . When was the test and what was the > result? > > > > > > > From: justinm <jtmoy19607@...> > > > Subject: interesting weblink > > > > > > Date: Sunday, April 3, 2011, 2:10 PM > > > when I talk about some of my side > > > effects to doctors...I get indirect responses of > that > > > doesn't happen or this is crazy...direct response > of there > > > is nothing we can do. when of my biggest side > effects of > > > stopping cold on steroids at the age of 18 was > penile > > > shrinkage due to crashing my testosterone level > and low LH. > > > the only medical research I found supporting such > anatomy > > > occurances is this link.... > > > > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17162022 > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 The problem with them stuy's is not one man was tested for high E2 after all this. I have talked to and helped men with this problem. They did there own tests for Estradiol and found they were very high. Getting it down fixed there loss of penis lg. Co-Moderator Phil > > From: d00fu524 <calvin1564@...> > Subject: Re: interesting weblink > > Date: Sunday, April 3, 2011, 3:09 PM > > > > Of course they wouldn't know because *multiple* clinical > studies haven't been done on supraphysiological doses of > steroids because of their status as a controlled substance. > (That's not to say that there haven't been any studies of > nandrolone or testosterone being used at around 500 mg for > several weeks [see Bhasin's articles on pubmed, including > this one: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8637535]). However, > there's little to no data in the official literature other > than anecdotes mentioning penile shrinkage from > discontinuing androgens. It is assumed that most men who had > " normal " levels of T prior to steroid use will eventually > resume normal testosterone production & not remain > hypogonadal. > > In the article you cited, the penile atrophy would probably > be explained by lack of nocturnal erections and general > erectile dysfunction from androgen deprivation ( & > perhaps prolactin increasing around the same time). Based on > the similarity of nandrolone to forms of testosterone, > others have speculated that when nandrolone is converted to > dihyronandrolone by the 5 alpha reductase enzyme, it ends up > competing with and displacing dihydrotestosterone for > receptors in the penis. In some men, upon discontinuation of > nandrolone/other steroids, DHT does not return to > pre-steroid administration levels. This induces long lasting > erectile dysfunction & perhaps penile atrophy as a > result. > > I think I asked before, but what are your DHT levels? > > ~Xian > > > > > > when I talk about some of my side effects to > doctors...I get indirect responses of that doesn't happen or > this is crazy...direct response of there is nothing we can > do. when of my biggest side effects of stopping cold on > steroids at the age of 18 was penile shrinkage due to > crashing my testosterone level and low LH. the only medical > research I found supporting such anatomy occurances is this > link.... > > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17162022 > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Yep,......when my E2 was running 52 my 'weiner' was about 2 " in the flaccid state. After dropping my levels to 24 which happened quickly, I am back to the roughly 4 " range as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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