Re: I have tried T Injections, Gel, now Troche. Nothing seems to work.

September 27, 2010

I think your pre-TRT levels were well within the normal range on everything

tested. When you begin T, your natural production reduces or totally shuts

down.

It's possible to end up lower than when you started. When I started injections,

my doctor and his nurse advised me that, while I began to feel better

immediately, it would take 3 months to have the full effect. Now, three years

later, I feel a decade younger, whereas before I felt a decade older. Feeling

50 instead of 70 is a pretty big deal!

I'm certainly no expert, but your estradiol is what is on pretty close to the

low end and as Phil here will tell you that is more likely the cause of your

problem.

Did the doctor mention testosterone first or did you? Perhaps he gave in to your

demands instead of using his best medical judgement.

Randy Hoops

>

> I started TRT about 2 months ago starting with Injections. I had bad

reactions to the injections.(Swelling, fever, rash etc..)So I my doctor switched

me to Gel(200mg/ml)1ml per day. Didn't feel anything on that, so now we have

switched to a Troche(lozenge--25m per Troche 3 times a day. It's been over a

week and don't feel anything going on..

> Getting frustrated. No desires, no erections, etc..

>

> My labs just before starting TRT:

> Testosterone total--465 Range ng/dL 280-800

> Free Testosterone--7.4 Range pg/mL 6.6-26.5

> Estradiol-----8 Range pg/mL 3-70

> FSH-----------4.9 Range mIU/mL1.5-12.4

> LH------------2.2 Range MIU/mL 1.7-8.6

>

> Thanks,

> Greg

>

September 27, 2010

Results are not good. Have you had your pituitary checked?

Your Free T and LH are at the low end of the range. This could mean that your

Leydig sells are not getting the message to do their stuff. I would talk to your

doctor about trying HCG. This mimics LH and could get things up where they need

to be.

Your Estradiol is low - should be around 20. IF you use HCG and get your FT up

your Estradiol should go up.

>

> I started TRT about 2 months ago starting with Injections. I had bad

reactions to the injections.(Swelling, fever, rash etc..)So I my doctor switched

me to Gel(200mg/ml)1ml per day. Didn't feel anything on that, so now we have

switched to a Troche(lozenge--25m per Troche 3 times a day. It's been over a

week and don't feel anything going on..

> Getting frustrated. No desires, no erections, etc..

>

> My labs just before starting TRT:

> Testosterone total--465 Range ng/dL 280-800

> Free Testosterone--7.4 Range pg/mL 6.6-26.5

> Estradiol-----8 Range pg/mL 3-70

> FSH-----------4.9 Range mIU/mL1.5-12.4

> LH------------2.2 Range MIU/mL 1.7-8.6

>

> Thanks,

> Greg

>

September 27, 2010

I did not want to go on TRT originally.Â Even with those labs I have ED

problems.

Viagara, cialis didn't work.Â I have struggled with this for 20 years when my

thyroid/adrenals cratered.Â Missdiagnosed for 9 years and then about 10 years

agoÂ went to a Dr. who put me on Deca/Testosterone combo and I felt great will

on it but got " Deca Dick " (Sorry to those who are offended by that term, but

that's what they call it) when I stopped.Â I have struggled ever since.

4 grains Naturethroid

30mg/daily HC

1 m/l T gel

Various vitamins/mineral.

Thanks,

Greg(49y/o)

From: k0cm <Randy@...>

Subject: Re: I have tried T Injections, Gel, now Troche. Nothing

seems to work.

Date: Monday, September 27, 2010, 11:42 AM

Â

I think your pre-TRT levels were well within the normal range on everything

tested. When you begin T, your natural production reduces or totally shuts down.

It's possible to end up lower than when you started. When I started injections,

my doctor and his nurse advised me that, while I began to feel better

immediately, it would take 3 months to have the full effect. Now, three years

later, I feel a decade younger, whereas before I felt a decade older. Feeling 50

instead of 70 is a pretty big deal!

I'm certainly no expert, but your estradiol is what is on pretty close to the

low end and as Phil here will tell you that is more likely the cause of your

problem.

Did the doctor mention testosterone first or did you? Perhaps he gave in to your

demands instead of using his best medical judgement.

Randy Hoops

>

> I started TRT about 2 months ago starting with Injections. I had bad reactions

to the injections.(Swelling, fever, rash etc..)So I my doctor switched me to

Gel(200mg/ml)1ml per day. Didn't feel anything on that, so now we have switched

to a Troche(lozenge--25m per Troche 3 times a day. It's been over a week and

don't feel anything going on..

> Getting frustrated. No desires, no erections, etc..

>

> My labs just before starting TRT:

> Testosterone total--465 Range ng/dL 280-800

> Free Testosterone--7.4 Range pg/mL 6.6-26.5

> Estradiol-----8 Range pg/mL 3-70

> FSH-----------4.9 Range mIU/mL1.5-12.4

> LH------------2.2 Range MIU/mL 1.7-8.6

>

> Thanks,

> Greg

>

September 27, 2010

Having a level that high your Dr. needed to check you to see why your at this

higher low. Most Dr.'s will not put one on TRT with number that high. But I

see your Estradiol levels are low at 8 this kills your wood gives you ED so back

taking Viagra will not get it up and your libido will go into the tank.

You will have bone loss sore joints and muscles and feel like crap. Best range

is 20 pg/ml one way to get this up is to take 25 mgs of DHEA 2x's a day when men

do to much DHEA it will convert into Estradiol. Do you take any supplements

that can lower Estradiol give us a list of them.

Going on T shots and having a problem tells me you started on a high dose like

200 mgs every 2 weeks was this how your Dr. put you on them shots.

If so this is old and can make you hold water and make your blood thicker. Also

your levels are up after 4 days when the peak then they start falling and if

your doing shots every 2 weeks your levels can fall lower then your base levels

by your next shot.

Going on TRT shuts down your brain from telling your Testis to make Testosterone

and if your on gels or creams and your skin will not let them through you end up

lower then you started.

Most men do Shots 100 mgs every week and add in HCG 250 IU's the 2 days each

before there next shot. We do them are selfs and some of us do them 2x's a week

I do mine every 3 days.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: fprappas <fprappas@...>

> Subject: I have tried T Injections, Gel, now Troche. Nothing

seems to work.

>

> Date: Monday, September 27, 2010, 11:17 AM

> I started TRT about 2 months ago

> starting with Injections. I had bad reactions to the

> injections.(Swelling, fever, rash etc..)So I my doctor

> switched me to Gel(200mg/ml)1ml per day. Didn't feel

> anything on that, so now we have switched to a

> Troche(lozenge--25m per Troche 3 times a day. It's

> been over a week and don't feel anything going on..

> Getting frustrated. No desires, no erections, etc..

>

> My labs just before starting TRT:

> Testosterone total--465 Range ng/dL 280-800

> Free Testosterone--7.4 Range pg/mL

> 6.6-26.5

> Estradiol-----8

> Range pg/mL 3-70

> FSH-----------4.9 Range

> mIU/mL1.5-12.4

> LH------------2.2 Range

> MIU/mL 1.7-8.6

>

> Thanks,

> Greg

>

> ------------------------------------

>

September 27, 2010

Take my word for it your Estradiol is way to low I have gone down to 10 taking

arimidex to keep my E2 down on TRT and nothing with get it up even slamming a

door on it.:-(

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> From: k0cm <Randy@...>

> Subject: Re: I have tried T Injections, Gel,

> now Troche. Nothing seems to work.

>

> Date: Monday, September 27, 2010, 11:42 AM

>

> I think your pre-TRT levels were well within the normal

> range on everything tested. When you begin T, your natural

> production reduces or totally shuts down.

>

> It's possible to end up lower than when you started. When I

> started injections, my doctor and his nurse advised me that,

> while I began to feel better immediately, it would take 3

> months to have the full effect. Now, three years later, I

> feel a decade younger, whereas before I felt a decade older.

> Feeling 50 instead of 70 is a pretty big deal!

>

> I'm certainly no expert, but your estradiol is what is on

> pretty close to the low end and as Phil here will tell you

> that is more likely the cause of your problem.

>

> Did the doctor mention testosterone first or did you?

> Perhaps he gave in to your demands instead of using his best

> medical judgement.

>

> Randy Hoops

>

> >

> > I started TRT about 2 months ago starting with

> Injections. I had bad reactions to the injections.(Swelling,

> fever, rash etc..)So I my doctor switched me to

> Gel(200mg/ml)1ml per day. Didn't feel anything on that, so

> now we have switched to a Troche(lozenge--25m per Troche 3

> times a day. It's been over a week and don't feel anything

> going on..

> > Getting frustrated. No desires, no erections, etc..

> >

> > My labs just before starting TRT:

> > Testosterone total--465 Range ng/dL 280-800

> > Free Testosterone--7.4 Range pg/mL 6.6-26.5

> > Estradiol-----8 Range pg/mL 3-70

> > FSH-----------4.9 Range mIU/mL1.5-12.4

> > LH------------2.2 Range MIU/mL 1.7-8.6

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Greg

> >

>

September 27, 2010

So what does one do to bring estradiol up a little?

Thanks,

Greg

>

> From: k0cm <Randy@...>

> Subject: Re: I have tried T Injections, Gel,

> now Troche. Nothing seems to work.

>

> Date: Monday, September 27, 2010, 11:42 AM

>

> Â

>

> I think your pre-TRT levels were well within the normal

> range on everything tested. When you begin T, your natural

> production reduces or totally shuts down.

>

> It's possible to end up lower than when you started. When I

> started injections, my doctor and his nurse advised me that,

> while I began to feel better immediately, it would take 3

> months to have the full effect. Now, three years later, I

> feel a decade younger, whereas before I felt a decade older.

> Feeling 50 instead of 70 is a pretty big deal!

>

> I'm certainly no expert, but your estradiol is what is on

> pretty close to the low end and as Phil here will tell you

> that is more likely the cause of your problem.

>

> Did the doctor mention testosterone first or did you?

> Perhaps he gave in to your demands instead of using his best

> medical judgement.

>

> Randy Hoops

>

> >

> > I started TRT about 2 months ago starting with

> Injections. I had bad reactions to the injections.(Swelling,

> fever, rash etc..)So I my doctor switched me to

> Gel(200mg/ml)1ml per day. Didn't feel anything on that, so

> now we have switched to a Troche(lozenge--25m per Troche 3

> times a day. It's been over a week and don't feel anything

> going on..

> > Getting frustrated. No desires, no erections, etc..

> >

> > My labs just before starting TRT:

> > Testosterone total--465 Range ng/dL 280-800

> > Free Testosterone--7.4 Range pg/mL 6.6-26.5

> > Estradiol-----8 Range pg/mL 3-70

> > FSH-----------4.9 Range mIU/mL1.5-12.4

> > LH------------2.2 Range MIU/mL 1.7-8.6

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Greg

> >

>

> Â Â Â

>

September 27, 2010

You can try HCG doing 500 IU's 3x's a weeks or take 25 mgs of DHEA 2x's a day it

will convert into Estradiol in men if you don't need it. Even going on TRT

doing shots 2x's a week in time will bring up your levels. Here is a list of

supplements one can be on that will lower your Estradiol levels.

- resveratrol

- i3c

- white mushroom

- chrysin (with bioperine)

- calcium d glucarate

and Zinc.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> >

> > From: k0cm <Randy@...>

> > Subject: Re: I have tried T Injections,

> Gel,

> > now Troche. Nothing seems to work.

> >

> > Date: Monday, September 27, 2010, 11:42 AM

> >

> > I think your pre-TRT levels were well within the

> normal

> > range on everything tested. When you begin T, your

> natural

> > production reduces or totally shuts down.

> >

> > It's possible to end up lower than when you started.

> When I

> > started injections, my doctor and his nurse advised me

> that,

> > while I began to feel better immediately, it would

> take 3

> > months to have the full effect. Now, three years

> later, I

> > feel a decade younger, whereas before I felt a decade

> older.

> > Feeling 50 instead of 70 is a pretty big deal!

> >

> > I'm certainly no expert, but your estradiol is what is

> on

> > pretty close to the low end and as Phil here will tell

> you

> > that is more likely the cause of your problem.

> >

> > Did the doctor mention testosterone first or did you?

> > Perhaps he gave in to your demands instead of using

> his best

> > medical judgement.

> >

> > Randy Hoops

> >

> > >

> > > I started TRT about 2 months ago starting with

> > Injections. I had bad reactions to the

> injections.(Swelling,

> > fever, rash etc..)So I my doctor switched me to

> > Gel(200mg/ml)1ml per day. Didn't feel anything on

> that, so

> > now we have switched to a Troche(lozenge--25m per

> Troche 3

> > times a day. It's been over a week and don't feel

> anything

> > going on..

> > > Getting frustrated. No desires, no erections,

> etc..

> > >

> > > My labs just before starting TRT:

> > > Testosterone total--465 Range ng/dL 280-800

> > > Free Testosterone--7.4 Range pg/mL 6.6-26.5

> > > Estradiol-----8 Range pg/mL 3-70

> > > FSH-----------4.9 Range mIU/mL1.5-12.4

> > > LH------------2.2 Range MIU/mL 1.7-8.6

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > > Greg

> > >

> >

September 27, 2010

Before looking for the " magic cure of TRT " , evaluate your personal situation. It

took me over 25 years to better understand the complexity of what makes the

sexual experience great, or maybe a cause of frustration and anxiety. I won't go

into a lot of detail, though I could probably write a book about it. Is your

relationship good enough to give you desire to be with and please that person?

Are you focusing too much on sex? Sex is not always great. As you get older you

may find that sometimes sex can be a little frustrating because you are too

tired, have too many other things on your mind, you are trying to tell yourself

that you are 20 years younger than you are, or any number of other things. And

after less than fullfilling sex, it may take several more times to get

everything working right again. Be patient with and forgiving of yourself and

make sure that pleasing your partner is just as important as pleasing yourself.

It is supprising that a Dr would prescribe T for someone at your levels and

maybe your low estradiol level is part of the problem. My T level was less than

1/2 of yours and is only slightly above yours on TRT. Your anxiety level may be

more of a problem than you think. Mine was.

>

> > From: fprappas <fprappas@...>

> > Subject: I have tried T Injections, Gel, now Troche. Nothing

seems to work.

> >

> > Date: Monday, September 27, 2010, 11:17 AM

> > I started TRT about 2 months ago

> > starting with Injections. I had bad reactions to the

> > injections.(Swelling, fever, rash etc..)So I my doctor

> > switched me to Gel(200mg/ml)1ml per day. Didn't feel

> > anything on that, so now we have switched to a

> > Troche(lozenge--25m per Troche 3 times a day. It's

> > been over a week and don't feel anything going on..

> > Getting frustrated. No desires, no erections, etc..

> >

> > My labs just before starting TRT:

> > Testosterone total--465 Range ng/dL 280-800

> > Free Testosterone--7.4 Range pg/mL

> > 6.6-26.5

> > Estradiol-----8

> > Range pg/mL 3-70

> > FSH-----------4.9 Range

> > mIU/mL1.5-12.4

> > LH------------2.2 Range

> > MIU/mL 1.7-8.6

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Greg

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

September 28, 2010

Yeah, you hit the nail.Â Lots of frustration and a spouse that doesn't

understand or thinks I am a hypochondriac.Â Makes it rough and gets in your

head were you can't perform.

Â

Phil, so should I stop the T and just try to get my estradiol level up a bit and

see how that goes? Or stay on the Testosterone Troche and add Dhea to the

regiment.

By the way my Dr. emailed me yesterday and said he is moving his office 30 miles

away.

So I am not sure I will continue to go with him.

Â

My previous Dr. had me right.Â Â I didn't need T injections/Gel/Troche.Â I

used Pregnenolone, DHEA and HCG in addition to my Thryoid meds.Â Everthing

worked, lost 36lbs and was rockin' along.

Thanks,

Greg

From: cwb382 <no_reply >

Subject: Re: I have tried T Injections, Gel, now Troche. Nothing

seems to work.

Date: Monday, September 27, 2010, 9:18 PM