Re: To Barb - switching from T3 to T4/T3

[Guest guest]

I'm not Barb, but may I ask what T3 dose you were taking and what T4/T3 dose

you moved to?

-Nigel

On 15 March 2011 11:41, Rouse <michael.hugh.rouse@...> wrote:

>

>

> Hi Barb,

>

> I tried switching from T3 to T4/T3 and this immediately made me feel hypo.

> I would really like to get off of the T3 only but it seems that my body

> doesn't want me to. Do you know why this is and what I can do about it?

>

> Thanks,

>

> --

> Mike

>

[Guest guest]

sure, 85mcg of T3 and I moved to 1 grain of NTH plus 75 mcg of T3. I am now

back on 85 mcg of T3.

On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 10:43 AM, Nigel <nachonigel@...> wrote:

>

>

> I'm not Barb, but may I ask what T3 dose you were taking and what T4/T3

> dose

> you moved to?

>

> -Nigel

>

>

> On 15 March 2011 11:41, Rouse <michael.hugh.rouse@...>

> wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > Hi Barb,

> >

> > I tried switching from T3 to T4/T3 and this immediately made me feel

> hypo.

> > I would really like to get off of the T3 only but it seems that my body

> > doesn't want me to. Do you know why this is and what I can do about it?

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> > --

> > Mike

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sometimes when you add a lot of thyroid out of the blue it can make you feel

tired and hypo. I don't know why, but it's a thing some report and it's not

always something like low adrenals causing it. Did your temps drop?

-Nigel

On 15 March 2011 11:45, Rouse <michael.hugh.rouse@...> wrote:

> sure, 85mcg of T3 and I moved to 1 grain of NTH plus 75 mcg of T3. I am

> now

> back on 85 mcg of T3.

>

> On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 10:43 AM, Nigel <nachonigel@...> wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > I'm not Barb, but may I ask what T3 dose you were taking and what T4/T3

> > dose

> > you moved to?

> >

> > -Nigel

> >

> >

> > On 15 March 2011 11:41, Rouse <michael.hugh.rouse@...>

> > wrote:

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > Hi Barb,

> > >

> > > I tried switching from T3 to T4/T3 and this immediately made me feel

> > hypo.

> > > I would really like to get off of the T3 only but it seems that my body

> > > doesn't want me to. Do you know why this is and what I can do about it?

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > >

> > > --

> > > Mike

>

[Guest guest]

If you drop some T3 and add T4, obviously you lose the T3 instantly and will

feel hypo until the T4 can stabilize and convert to make up for what you just

cut. I just went through this, by cutting my Erfa some and raising my T4.

Bones really started to ache, but I stuck with it and am now 5 weeks into the

dose, not so achy. I think I need to add more Erfa back in, but will get labs

next week.

Any changes you do should be slow and in the smallest amounts you can get with a

pill cutter. For example, I'm taking 1-1/8 grain Erfa with my 75 mcg T4. I

already tried 1.5 grain + 50 mcg T4 and felt hypo with TSH too suppressed (<.01)

My thinking was that adding more T4 and dropping some T3 would allow my TSH to

come up some and maybe be more " natural. " The additional T4 has had positive

changes on my body and I do NOT look my age.

You obviously need good conversion, so need the usual cofactors of iodine, iron,

Vit A, zinc, selenium, etc. I know you've seen this, but for others who haven't,

this is a good summary: http://tiredthyroid.com/cofactors.html

So you'd drop some T3, add some T4, then have to wait at least 4 weeks before

another change. Some say to wait 6-8 weeks to give the body time to adjust. In

any case, you cannot make changes every week, which is what is recommended on

some other forums.

Barb

>

> Hi Barb,

>

> I tried switching from T3 to T4/T3 and this immediately made me feel hypo.

> I would really like to get off of the T3 only but it seems that my body

> doesn't want me to. Do you know why this is and what I can do about it?

>

> Thanks,

>

> --

> Mike

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Barb, you said " The additional T4 has had positive changes on my body and I

do NOT look my age. "

What has T4 done for you?

-Nigel

On 15 March 2011 12:00, Barb <baba@...> wrote:

>

>

> If you drop some T3 and add T4, obviously you lose the T3 instantly and

> will feel hypo until the T4 can stabilize and convert to make up for what

> you just cut. I just went through this, by cutting my Erfa some and raising

> my T4. Bones really started to ache, but I stuck with it and am now 5 weeks

> into the dose, not so achy. I think I need to add more Erfa back in, but

> will get labs next week.

>

> Any changes you do should be slow and in the smallest amounts you can get

> with a pill cutter. For example, I'm taking 1-1/8 grain Erfa with my 75 mcg

> T4. I already tried 1.5 grain + 50 mcg T4 and felt hypo with TSH too

> suppressed (<.01) My thinking was that adding more T4 and dropping some T3

> would allow my TSH to come up some and maybe be more " natural. " The

> additional T4 has had positive changes on my body and I do NOT look my age.

>

> You obviously need good conversion, so need the usual cofactors of iodine,

> iron, Vit A, zinc, selenium, etc. I know you've seen this, but for others

> who haven't, this is a good summary:

> http://tiredthyroid.com/cofactors.html

>

> So you'd drop some T3, add some T4, then have to wait at least 4 weeks

> before another change. Some say to wait 6-8 weeks to give the body time to

> adjust. In any case, you cannot make changes every week, which is what is

> recommended on some other forums.

>

> Barb

>

[Guest guest]

, the problem is you RAISED your dose. You and Phil and anyone changing

between NTH and T4 need to make a spreadsheet so you can see the total T4 and T3

of any changes.

You went from T4/T3

of 0/85

to 38/84

If you ANY conversion at all, your T3 was even higher, and 85 is already pretty

high.

Barb

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > Hi Barb,

> > >

> > > I tried switching from T3 to T4/T3 and this immediately made me feel

> > hypo.

> > > I would really like to get off of the T3 only but it seems that my body

> > > doesn't want me to. Do you know why this is and what I can do about it?

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > >

> > > --

> > > Mike

> > >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Barb,

So why would that make me feel more fatigued? I was told that it takes a

few weeks for T4 to convert over and that it shouldn't conver that quickly.

So, how would you recommend I make the switch?

Thanks Barb,

Mike

On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 11:08 AM, Barb <baba@...> wrote:

>

>

> , the problem is you RAISED your dose. You and Phil and anyone

> changing between NTH and T4 need to make a spreadsheet so you can see the

> total T4 and T3 of any changes.

>

> You went from T4/T3

> of 0/85

> to 38/84

>

> If you ANY conversion at all, your T3 was even higher, and 85 is already

> pretty high.

>

>

> Barb

>

>

> > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Hi Barb,

> > > >

> > > > I tried switching from T3 to T4/T3 and this immediately made me feel

> > > hypo.

> > > > I would really like to get off of the T3 only but it seems that my

> body

> > > > doesn't want me to. Do you know why this is and what I can do about

> it?

> > > >

> > > > Thanks,

> > > >

> > > > --

> > > > Mike

> > > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

More scalp hair (but eyebrows still not right), body is now pre-menopausal, no

gut, great figure. DH says EVERYTHING looks better lol! I also recently added

a small amount of iodine and zinc, after finding out in my research that those

were necessary nutrients. I also have some dark skin pigmentation in certain

spots, which I've heard is from high ACTH, and that has also gone down

considerably.

>

> >

> >

> > If you drop some T3 and add T4, obviously you lose the T3 instantly and

> > will feel hypo until the T4 can stabilize and convert to make up for what

> > you just cut. I just went through this, by cutting my Erfa some and raising

> > my T4. Bones really started to ache, but I stuck with it and am now 5 weeks

> > into the dose, not so achy. I think I need to add more Erfa back in, but

> > will get labs next week.

> >

> > Any changes you do should be slow and in the smallest amounts you can get

> > with a pill cutter. For example, I'm taking 1-1/8 grain Erfa with my 75 mcg

> > T4. I already tried 1.5 grain + 50 mcg T4 and felt hypo with TSH too

> > suppressed (<.01) My thinking was that adding more T4 and dropping some T3

> > would allow my TSH to come up some and maybe be more " natural. " The

> > additional T4 has had positive changes on my body and I do NOT look my age.

> >

> > You obviously need good conversion, so need the usual cofactors of iodine,

> > iron, Vit A, zinc, selenium, etc. I know you've seen this, but for others

> > who haven't, this is a good summary:

> > http://tiredthyroid.com/cofactors.html

> >

> > So you'd drop some T3, add some T4, then have to wait at least 4 weeks

> > before another change. Some say to wait 6-8 weeks to give the body time to

> > adjust. In any case, you cannot make changes every week, which is what is

> > recommended on some other forums.

> >

> > Barb

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You added T4 and T2 on top of your existing thyroid dose when you added a

grain of natural for 10 mcg less T3.

The T4 won't all convert right away, but it does start converting as soon as

it enters the body. T2 accelerates metabolism too.

So, possibly that was just so much for the body to handle all at once and

you felt fatigued.

This is just what came to my mind when you posted that you felt more tired

moving over to natural thyroid.

-Nigel

On 15 March 2011 12:13, Rouse <michael.hugh.rouse@...> wrote:

> Barb,

>

> So why would that make me feel more fatigued? I was told that it takes a

> few weeks for T4 to convert over and that it shouldn't conver that quickly.

>

>

> So, how would you recommend I make the switch?

>

> Thanks Barb,

>

> Mike

>

> On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 11:08 AM, Barb <baba@...> wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > , the problem is you RAISED your dose. You and Phil and anyone

> > changing between NTH and T4 need to make a spreadsheet so you can see the

> > total T4 and T3 of any changes.

> >

> > You went from T4/T3

> > of 0/85

> > to 38/84

> >

> > If you ANY conversion at all, your T3 was even higher, and 85 is already

> > pretty high.

> >

> >

> > Barb

> >

> >

> > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I'm not Barb, but may I ask what T3 dose you were taking and what

> T4/T3

> > > > dose

> > > > you moved to?

> > > >

> > > > -Nigel

>

[Guest guest]

Good point Nigel I all ways do my temps avg. when I have a change in thyroid

meds.

http://www.drrind.com/therapies/metabolic-temperature-graph

I print out the chart and keep track of my temps avg. when my temp avg. is above

98.8 into the 99's I am going hyper.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Hi Barb,

> > > >

> > > > I tried switching from T3 to T4/T3 and this

> immediately made me feel

> > > hypo.

> > > > I would really like to get off of the T3

> only but it seems that my body

> > > > doesn't want me to. Do you know why this is

> and what I can do about it?

> > > >

> > > > Thanks,

> > > >

> > > > --

> >  > > Mike

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ask anyone who has been hyperthyroid or had Graves' disease, and they will tell

you that they are exhausted. It was like I was running 24/7. I'd lay down in

bed at night and heart was still going over 100 bpm, so no rest, ever.

As far as dosing, well you know what you did was too much, so work from there,

and do it slower. I like 4x/day dosing, but since 1 grain seems like too much

of a shock to do at once, maybe you could start with 1/2 grain? Take 1/4 grain

every 12 hours in addition to 75 mcg T3? Or if you don't mind pill cutting, do

1/8 grain every 6 hours + 75 mcg T3.

Then T4/T3 goes from

0/85

19/79

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm not Barb, but may I ask what T3 dose you were taking and what

> > T4/T3

> > > > > dose

> > > > > you moved to?

> > > > >

> > > > > -Nigel

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wait when you take a NTH med it has T2, T3, T1 and T4 all in it you don't need

to convert it.

Co-Moderator

Phil

>

> >

> >

> > , the problem is you RAISED your dose. You and

> Phil and anyone

> > changing between NTH and T4 need to make a spreadsheet

> so you can see the

> > total T4 and T3 of any changes.

> >

> > You went from T4/T3

> > of 0/85

> > to 38/84

> >

> > If you ANY conversion at all, your T3 was even higher,

> and 85 is already

> > pretty high.

> >

> >

> > Barb

> >

> >

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Hi Barb,

> > > > >

> > > > > I tried switching from T3 to T4/T3 and

> this immediately made me feel

> > > > hypo.

> > > > > I would really like to get off of the

> T3 only but it seems that my

> > body

> > > > > doesn't want me to. Do you know why

> this is and what I can do about

> > it?

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks,

> > > > >

> > > > > --

> > > > > Mike

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > --

> > > Mike

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> > >

> >

> > 

> >

>

>

>

> --

> Mike

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Interesting. I can't help but think some tissues prefer T3 from T4 rather

than direct T3. How did your ACTH go down?

I didn't notice tanning before taking cortisol when my adrenals were very

very messed up. But I was too low on my HC (mostly taking pregnenolone at

that point) and I think my ACTH went too high as I thought my arms darkened

like a slight suntan and I had only been indoors. I also started to pay

attention to my linea nigra as it got darker. Of course that led to research

which said I'm just that much more weird as usually only pregnant women have

them. I think it's some hormone imbalance.

-Nigel

On 15 March 2011 12:14, Barb <baba@...> wrote:

>

>

> More scalp hair (but eyebrows still not right), body is now pre-menopausal,

> no gut, great figure. DH says EVERYTHING looks better lol! I also recently

> added a small amount of iodine and zinc, after finding out in my research

> that those were necessary nutrients. I also have some dark skin pigmentation

> in certain spots, which I've heard is from high ACTH, and that has also gone

> down considerably.

>

>

>

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > If you drop some T3 and add T4, obviously you lose the T3 instantly and

> > > will feel hypo until the T4 can stabilize and convert to make up for

> what

> > > you just cut. I just went through this, by cutting my Erfa some and

> raising

> > > my T4. Bones really started to ache, but I stuck with it and am now 5

> weeks

> > > into the dose, not so achy. I think I need to add more Erfa back in,

> but

> > > will get labs next week.

> > >

> > > Any changes you do should be slow and in the smallest amounts you can

> get

> > > with a pill cutter. For example, I'm taking 1-1/8 grain Erfa with my 75

> mcg

> > > T4. I already tried 1.5 grain + 50 mcg T4 and felt hypo with TSH too

> > > suppressed (<.01) My thinking was that adding more T4 and dropping some

> T3

> > > would allow my TSH to come up some and maybe be more " natural. " The

> > > additional T4 has had positive changes on my body and I do NOT look my

> age.

> > >

> > > You obviously need good conversion, so need the usual cofactors of

> iodine,

> > > iron, Vit A, zinc, selenium, etc. I know you've seen this, but for

> others

> > > who haven't, this is a good summary:

> > > http://tiredthyroid.com/cofactors.html

> > >

> > > So you'd drop some T3, add some T4, then have to wait at least 4 weeks

> > > before another change. Some say to wait 6-8 weeks to give the body time

> to

> > > adjust. In any case, you cannot make changes every week, which is what

> is

> > > recommended on some other forums.

> > >

> > > Barb

> > >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I don't know that my ACTH went down, that's never been tested. What has gone

down are my darkened skin areas. But maybe ACTH goes high to compensate for too

low thyroid, and now that I'm taking more T4, it's more in balance?

You had a linea nigra? I had one too, when pregnant, of course. Took a long

time to go away. I wonder if that's from high ACTH too?

> > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > If you drop some T3 and add T4, obviously you lose the T3 instantly and

> > > > will feel hypo until the T4 can stabilize and convert to make up for

> > what

> > > > you just cut. I just went through this, by cutting my Erfa some and

> > raising

> > > > my T4. Bones really started to ache, but I stuck with it and am now 5

> > weeks

> > > > into the dose, not so achy. I think I need to add more Erfa back in,

> > but

> > > > will get labs next week.

> > > >

> > > > Any changes you do should be slow and in the smallest amounts you can

> > get

> > > > with a pill cutter. For example, I'm taking 1-1/8 grain Erfa with my 75

> > mcg

> > > > T4. I already tried 1.5 grain + 50 mcg T4 and felt hypo with TSH too

> > > > suppressed (<.01) My thinking was that adding more T4 and dropping some

> > T3

> > > > would allow my TSH to come up some and maybe be more " natural. " The

> > > > additional T4 has had positive changes on my body and I do NOT look my

> > age.

> > > >

> > > > You obviously need good conversion, so need the usual cofactors of

> > iodine,

> > > > iron, Vit A, zinc, selenium, etc. I know you've seen this, but for

> > others

> > > > who haven't, this is a good summary:

> > > > http://tiredthyroid.com/cofactors.html

> > > >

> > > > So you'd drop some T3, add some T4, then have to wait at least 4 weeks

> > > > before another change. Some say to wait 6-8 weeks to give the body time

> > to

> > > > adjust. In any case, you cannot make changes every week, which is what

> > is

> > > > recommended on some other forums.

> > > >

> > > > Barb

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >