Re: Husband's Labs- need help interpreting

[Guest guest]

Hi alagonza2000 and Welcome,

First let me say most of us men don't find Endo's and Uro's good Dr.'s for low

Testosterone. They are just not good Dr.'s for this. Your DH's levels are that

of a man age 85 to 100 yrs old and I am betting this Endo told him he is OK his

labs are in the normal range.

I never head of Androgel causing central serous retinopathy. I do know if your

DH started on the starting dose of 5 grams he needed to be retested in 2 weeks

because his levels can fall lower then the 360 levels he started with.

How this happens is his brain will see the added Testosterone in his blood and

stop sending that 360 level he has on his labs. Now all he is left with is what

the gel is doing and this can be just 250.

So when he starts on the gel lets say the gel added 250 to his 360 level and in

the first 10 days he felt great because now his levels are now 610 then his

brain sees the added T in his blood and stops sending the LH and FSH messages to

this testis to make more T and now his levels drop down to 250 or what the gel

is doing. And he feels worse then he started.

Also I don't see his LH and FSH in his labs any good Dr. that knows about male

hormones knows this needs to be tested to see why his levels are so low.

His Thyroid levels good good but his TSH is very high telling me his brain is

trying to tell his Thyroid to make more Thyroid hormones. People with Thyroid

Problems can have a thicker skin and Androgel will not work well it can't get

through the skin. So shots would work much better men today Dr.'s know to start

them on 100 mgs / week after a jump start shot of 200 mgs to get them going. If

he goes on shots have his Dr. show him how to do them his self.

I see his SHBG is a little high and his Estradiol is up there over 30 best at 20

pg/ml getting this down might give him back his sex life levels of Estradiol

this high kill a mans sex life. Try taking some Indolplex/DIM it's sold OTC and

works get to get the levels he has down. He will know when his levels have come

down he will get back his involuntary nocturnal erections that appear during

REM (Rapid Eye Movement) sleep. They will start back up again and be so strong

they will wake him up.

http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0

Also I see his morning fasting cortisol levels are low next he needs to test

this with a 4x's in a day Saliva test you can buy this your self from this link.

If he has Adrenal Problems this will make him feel sick.

And I see his Sodium levels are on the low side if he added some good Sea Salt

to a glass of water in the morning and downed it it might make him feel better

people with Adrenal Problems tend to dump there sodium levels. Try a 1/4 to 1/2

tsp of good Sea Salt in the morning if he feels better from this.

Check his Aldosterone levels and read these links.

http://livingnetwork.co.za/lifestylefunctional-medicine/hormones/adrenal-fatigue\

/

http://www.tuberose.com/Adrenal_Glands.html

Here is a good link about low Testosterone in men and high Estraidol levels.

http://www.griffinmedical.com/male_hormone_modulation_therapy.html

Also go to Dr. 's site www.allthingsmale.com and read TRT: A Recipe for

Success in this are the labs he needed and why to find out why he is low. One

needs to find out why they are low before going on TRT it's very hard to figure

out why one is low on TRT.

Now about Lipitor and the P90X supplement he is on to me it's not enough a waste

of money. Taking Lipitor will lower the CoQ10 and can cause joint and muscle

pain and damage.

It did this to me after having Heart Bypass Surgery was put on Statin Drugs and

having this pain. I never had high Chol. levels in my life and Dr.'s kept

telling me it's not the Lipitor or Crestor they had me on all of them. They

would not listen to me until I could no longer stand up or walk with out the

help of a walker.

http://www.spacedoc.net/muscle_pain_statins.htm

I and not saying this will happen to him but keep a eye out for it and being on

Lipitor he needs to take

· Ubiquinol Capliques Featuring Kaneka's Qh 50 to 100 mgs /day I get the

best there is from mercola.com.

· Lecithin 1200 mgs 3 caps 2x's/day.

I take a lot of supplements but I take them each one at a time they work better

this way a list of mine will follow at the end of this reply.

============================

Supplements

· TMG 750mg 1pm and 11pm 2 pills a day.

· Solary Super Bio C 2 x's/day 1000 mgs. Total.

· l-Arginine and l-Orthinine 100 Capsules, 750 mg, Twinlab 1 at bedtime.

· NOW brand ZMA 800mgs 3 at bedtime.

· Copper 2mgs 1 at noon.

· Dr. Cranton's PrimeNutrients 3/day.

· Biotics Bio-D-Mulsion Forte Vit. D 2000 IU's per drop I am doing 10

drops a day.

· Iodoral Iodine 1 tab / day 12.5 mgs.

· I went with NOW brand for the following supplements do to a high

levels on a Homocysteine Cardiovascular and below normal level of Folate RBC

labs.

· NAC N-Acetyl Cysteine, Selenium, Molybdenum - 600 mg.

· B-12 (Brain) Methylcobalamin - 5000 mcg lozenges. 3x's/week.

· Coenzyme B Complex.

· P-5-P (Coenzyme B6) 50 mg.

· I am taking 800 mcg. Folacal for low Folate RBC.

· BioCitrate Selenium - 200 mcg 1x's / day morning.

· Ubiquinol Capliques Featuring Kaneka's Qh (400mgs) 3x's/day

mercola.com.

· Lecithin 1200 mgs 3 caps 2x's/day.

· Acetyl-L Carnitine 500 mg 3x's/day.

· Alpha Lipoic Acid 250 mg/day.

· Krill Oil capliques 1,000 mgs. 2 with food morning mercola.com.

>

> Hi! This is my first post as I am learning all about sex hormones with my

husband as well as myself!

>

> These were fasting blood results... Hi doctor is clueless about sex hormones

and any suggestions is greatly appreciated! His challenge is very weak

erections/low libido. He is currently working the P90X program and not on any

medication except Lipitor. He takes the P90X multivitamin, CoQ10, Lysine,

Vitamin C, Joint supplement, saw palmetto (prostate enlarged). His endo

prescribed him " Androgel " in the 1% packets (1 daily) which he used for about 60

days until he decided to stop because he felt it was contributing to an eye

condition he has called central serous retinopathy. He stopped in September of

this year.

>

> Glucose 90 (65-9)

> Bun 17 (5-26)

> Creatine, Serum 1.12 (0.76-1.27)

> Bun/creatine ratio 15 (8-27)

> Sodium 139 (135-145)

> Potassium 4.5 (3.5-5.2)

> chloride 100 (97-108)

> Carbon dioxide 25 (20-32)

> calcium 9.2 (8.7-10.2)

> protein 7.0 (6-8.5)

> albumin 4.7 (3.5-5.5)

> globulin 2.3 (1.5-4.5)

> bilirubin 0.7 (0-1.2)

> alkaline posphatase 85 (25-150)

> AST 36 (0-40)

> ALT 57 (0-55)

>

> Cholesterol 170 (100-199)

> triglycerides 90 (0-149)

> HDL cholesterol 49 (>39)

> LDL cholesterol 103 (0-99)

>

> Testosterone, serum 360 (280-800)

> Free testosterone 7.7 (6.8-21.5)

> DHT 37 (30-85)

>

> FT4 1.18 (0.82-1.77)

> FT3 3.5 (2.0-4.4)

> TSH 5.8 (.450-4.5)

>

> Estradiol 37.6 (7.6-42.6)

> SHBG 30.4 (14.5-48.4)

>

> Magnesium 2.3 (1.6-2.6)

>

> Cortisol 12.2 (6.2-19.4)

>

[Guest guest]

Phil-

Thank you for replying indepth!

I have a couple of questions for you:

1. What 'should' a man's estrodial level be?

2. My DH had central serous for years prior to the testosterone. He felt the CS

got worse about 6 weeks after using the testosterone gel. He saw the retina

specialist today who asked him to try a lower strength testosterone because

'any' steroid can cause the CS to flare.

DH HATES needles.. is there another testosterone he could try?

3. I am hypothyroid and on the RT3/Adrenal site and Val thought my DH is " VERY

HYPO " . Do you feel he should do the saliva test at this point to check the

adrenals? His doc wanted him to do the 24-hr urine test next...

I drink the sea salt water 3-4xs per day and he has cringes his nose at it but

he is willing to try it and see how he feels...

4. No his doctor didn't check the LH/FSH for him... I wrote out a list of blood

tests and his doctor agreed to run them... I wasn't familiar with the LH/FSH for

men- I thought that was a female thing... ((Like I said, I am learning)).

So, right now you suggest he get the DIM product and start on that and then test

the adrenals..

Thanks again!

> >

> > Hi! This is my first post as I am learning all about sex hormones with my

husband as well as myself!

> >

> > These were fasting blood results... Hi doctor is clueless about sex hormones

and any suggestions is greatly appreciated! His challenge is very weak

erections/low libido. He is currently working the P90X program and not on any

medication except Lipitor. He takes the P90X multivitamin, CoQ10, Lysine,

Vitamin C, Joint supplement, saw palmetto (prostate enlarged). His endo

prescribed him " Androgel " in the 1% packets (1 daily) which he used for about 60

days until he decided to stop because he felt it was contributing to an eye

condition he has called central serous retinopathy. He stopped in September of

this year.

> >

> > Glucose 90 (65-9)

> > Bun 17 (5-26)

> > Creatine, Serum 1.12 (0.76-1.27)

> > Bun/creatine ratio 15 (8-27)

> > Sodium 139 (135-145)

> > Potassium 4.5 (3.5-5.2)

> > chloride 100 (97-108)

> > Carbon dioxide 25 (20-32)

> > calcium 9.2 (8.7-10.2)

> > protein 7.0 (6-8.5)

> > albumin 4.7 (3.5-5.5)

> > globulin 2.3 (1.5-4.5)

> > bilirubin 0.7 (0-1.2)

> > alkaline posphatase 85 (25-150)

> > AST 36 (0-40)

> > ALT 57 (0-55)

> >

> > Cholesterol 170 (100-199)

> > triglycerides 90 (0-149)

> > HDL cholesterol 49 (>39)

> > LDL cholesterol 103 (0-99)

> >

> > Testosterone, serum 360 (280-800)

> > Free testosterone 7.7 (6.8-21.5)

> > DHT 37 (30-85)

> >

> > FT4 1.18 (0.82-1.77)

> > FT3 3.5 (2.0-4.4)

> > TSH 5.8 (.450-4.5)

> >

> > Estradiol 37.6 (7.6-42.6)

> > SHBG 30.4 (14.5-48.4)

> >

> > Magnesium 2.3 (1.6-2.6)

> >

> > Cortisol 12.2 (6.2-19.4)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

1) OK a mans Estradiol levels need to be less then 30 best at 20 pg/ml. When it

gets to high in men the brain sees this as if it is Testosterone and thinks the

high Estradiol is to much Testosterone. So the brain will slow down sending the

LH and FSH message to his Testis to make more Testosterone and he can end up

with low Testosterone levels. Getting a mans Estradiol levels down can bring up

his Testosterone levels some 200 to 300 Points.

When men first get there Testosterone tested they need there Estradiol, Total

and Free Testosterone, SBBG, LH and FSH tested.

The reason for them labs is to tell if the man is low on Testosterone is he

Primary meaning his Testis don't work. His Testosterone levels will come back

low with very high LH and FSH this is the message from his brain that tells his

Testis to make more T. So with good Estradiol levels say at 30 pg/ml or less

this means his Testis can make the Testosterone and his brain is asking for more

by sending a lot of LH and FSH to his Testis. Men that have labs like this need

to see a Uro. and get there testis checked out and there Prostate.

Now if his labs come back with low T and high Estraidol levels the LH and FSH

message is shut down because the brain thinks the Estradiol is T and thinks the

T levels are to high. So one needs to get the Estradiol levels down and retest.

If LH and FSH are still low this means the man is Secondary and needs to have an

MRI on his Pituitary to rule out a tumor it's rare to be cancer.

2) It took me a lot of searching to figure out what central serous is. So if

Testosterone meds make this worse just have his Dr. give him HCG this acts like

the LH and FSH message sent to the testis from the Pituitary to make more T so

on this his Testis will make more T as best they can. Doing this his is not

adding Testosterone to his body he is have the HCG tell his Testis to make there

own T so I feel it's from his body it should not make his CS worse.

3) Yes test his Thyroid and Cortisol levels but if his Cortisol levels are low

he can't take Cortef or HC meds it can do the same thing the Testosterone meds

did to his CS. But he could try Isocort this is sheep glands and 1 pill is said

to be 2.5 mgs of Cortisol not HC. He would need to work his way up to 8 pills a

day = 20 mgs of Cortisol of 2 pills every 4 hrs.

4) Your at a good place to learn about this the more you know the better off the

both of you will be.

Yes is his Estraidol levels are high I don't remember what they were try the

Indolplex/DIM but get the brand I in the link I gave you there is a lot of Junk

for sale out there that does not work.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: alagonza2000 <alagonza2000@...>

> Subject: Re: Husband's Labs- need help interpreting

>

> Date: Monday, December 20, 2010, 9:26 PM

> Phil-

>

> Thank you for replying indepth!

>

> I have a couple of questions for you:

>

> 1.  What 'should' a man's estrodial level be?

>

> 2.  My DH had central serous for years prior to the

> testosterone. He felt the CS got worse about 6 weeks after

> using the testosterone gel. He saw the retina specialist

> today who asked him to try a lower strength testosterone

> because 'any' steroid can cause the CS to flare.

> DH HATES needles.. is there another testosterone he could

> try?

>

> 3. I am hypothyroid and on the RT3/Adrenal site and Val

> thought my DH is " VERY HYPO " .  Do you feel he should do

> the saliva test at this point to check the adrenals? 

> His doc wanted him to do the 24-hr urine test next...

> I drink the sea salt water 3-4xs per day and he has cringes

> his nose at it but he is willing to try it and see how he

> feels...

>

> 4.  No his doctor didn't check the LH/FSH for him... I

> wrote out a list of blood tests and his doctor agreed to run

> them... I wasn't familiar with the LH/FSH for men- I thought

> that was a female thing... ((Like I said, I am learning)).

>

> So, right now you suggest he get the DIM product and start

> on that and then test the adrenals..

>

> Thanks again!

>

>

>

> > >

> > > Hi!  This is my first post as I am learning

> all about sex hormones with my husband as well as myself!

> > >

> > > These were fasting blood results... Hi doctor is

> clueless about sex hormones and any suggestions is greatly

> appreciated!  His challenge is very weak erections/low

> libido. He is currently working the P90X program and not on

> any medication except Lipitor.  He takes the P90X

> multivitamin, CoQ10, Lysine, Vitamin C, Joint supplement,

> saw palmetto (prostate enlarged).  His endo prescribed

> him " Androgel " in the 1% packets (1 daily) which he used for

> about 60 days until he decided to stop because he felt it

> was contributing to an eye condition he has called central

> serous retinopathy.  He stopped in September of this

> year.

> > >

> > > Glucose 90 (65-9)

> > > Bun 17 (5-26)

> > > Creatine, Serum 1.12 (0.76-1.27)

> > > Bun/creatine ratio 15 (8-27)

> > > Sodium 139 (135-145)

> > > Potassium 4.5 (3.5-5.2)

> > > chloride 100 (97-108)

> > > Carbon dioxide 25 (20-32)

> > > calcium 9.2 (8.7-10.2)

> > > protein 7.0  (6-8.5)

> > > albumin 4.7 (3.5-5.5)

> > > globulin 2.3 (1.5-4.5)

> > > bilirubin 0.7 (0-1.2)

> > > alkaline posphatase 85 (25-150)

> > > AST 36 (0-40)

> > > ALT 57 (0-55)

> > >

> > > Cholesterol 170 (100-199)

> > > triglycerides 90 (0-149)

> > > HDL cholesterol 49 (>39)

> > > LDL cholesterol 103 (0-99)

> > >

> > > Testosterone, serum 360 (280-800)

> > > Free testosterone 7.7 (6.8-21.5)

> > > DHT 37 (30-85)

> > >

> > > FT4 1.18 (0.82-1.77)

> > > FT3 3.5 (2.0-4.4)

> > > TSH 5.8 (.450-4.5)

> > >

> > > Estradiol 37.6 (7.6-42.6)

> > > SHBG 30.4 (14.5-48.4)

> > >

> > > Magnesium 2.3 (1.6-2.6)

> > >

> > > Cortisol 12.2 (6.2-19.4)

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>