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Re: TRT and Liver and Gallbladder Problems ???

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Posted
Posted

Hey there Joe

What follows is only a personal opinion, but I doubt what you are experiencing

has anything whatsoever to do with liver problems or gallbladder problems. My

reasons...

I have had my gallbladder removed a few years back. Trust me, my friend - if

you had a gallbladder problem there is no way you would be describing it as a

dull ache, much less be confused about what it might be. Have you ever been hit

in the stomach? If so, do you remember that horrible colic pain which goes on

for a minute or two afterwards? That is the exact pain of a gall stone, only it

goes on for hours. As the disease progresses, the attacks become more frequent

and at that point you do feel sick all the time. If you had a blood test then

(which I did), your LFT would be off the chart (due to the liver enzymes backing

up as they cannot flow away normally when the stone blocks their passage).

Some people have high blood fats but no stones, so it does not always follow.

Do you take any pain meds, especially narcotic ones like codeine? Anything of

that type can cause a short but nasty attack of pancreatitis which feels very

similar to gall stones.

Acid reflux. My mum has this. Before she was diagnosed I was convinced she had

gall stones, yet the scan advised negative - it was simply reflux but the pain

went right through to her back.

Nausea is one of the side effects of testosterone on my information leaflet. It

can affect some people like that I guess.

My advice would be to go for a blood test. Ensure that you are tested for:

LFT (Liver Function Test)

FBC (Full Blood Count)

Us & Es (Kidney Function)

Lipids (Fasting)

This will give a damn good indication of what is going on. If you want to be

100 per cent, then go for an ultrasound scan as well and if there is anything

untoward, that will pick it up.

Be cool

ade

PS: an attack of gallstones would not cause nausea. at its very, very worst

(when it has caused liver and pancreas problems) and after it has persisted for

an hour or so, some people do find themselves vomiting, but please believe me

when I say that first of all you would be walking back and forth for the full

hour in horrendous pain (sitting down would not be an option).

From: inc_100

Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 10:09 PM

Subject: TRT and Liver and Gallbladder Problems ???

Hi All,

Any one noticed any liver issues while on TRT ? Recently I am feeling chronic

" nausea " and some stiffness and dull pain under my right shoulder blade. I am

checking for symptoms and diagnosis and I read there are chances of liver toxing

because of TRT.

Any idea ?

I also read quite reverse ....which is with low T, your LDL and Triglicarides go

up and all this cholestrol formed in your liver end up as gallstones in the gall

bladder which causes pain in the back and also nausea.

Any comments or suggestions or ideas ?

Thanks

Joe

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Posted
Posted

Hi Ade,

Thank you so much for taking time to write back. The good thing about groups

like this is instant support. Many people who actually know exactly what it is

(unlike all these doctors). To me the symptoms are not that worst but I check

out things early based on the symptoms. I will be getting the bloodtests next

week (due next week).

I am 38 yrs old and two years ago I got hypothyroid and about an year ago I

became hypogonad. These two things almost are making me 'retire'. Always sick of

something or ran out of energy. Cant remember things, cant concentrate, confused

or depressed ...and now this pain in the back and nausea .... So ... I am

concerned.

Will update you soon.

Thank you so much.

Joe

>

> Hey there Joe

>

> What follows is only a personal opinion, but I doubt what you are experiencing

has anything whatsoever to do with liver problems or gallbladder problems. My

reasons...

>

> I have had my gallbladder removed a few years back. Trust me, my friend - if

you had a gallbladder problem there is no way you would be describing it as a

dull ache, much less be confused about what it might be. Have you ever been hit

in the stomach? If so, do you remember that horrible colic pain which goes on

for a minute or two afterwards? That is the exact pain of a gall stone, only it

goes on for hours. As the disease progresses, the attacks become more frequent

and at that point you do feel sick all the time. If you had a blood test then

(which I did), your LFT would be off the chart (due to the liver enzymes backing

up as they cannot flow away normally when the stone blocks their passage).

>

> Some people have high blood fats but no stones, so it does not always follow.

>

> Do you take any pain meds, especially narcotic ones like codeine? Anything of

that type can cause a short but nasty attack of pancreatitis which feels very

similar to gall stones.

>

> Acid reflux. My mum has this. Before she was diagnosed I was convinced she

had gall stones, yet the scan advised negative - it was simply reflux but the

pain went right through to her back.

>

> Nausea is one of the side effects of testosterone on my information leaflet.

It can affect some people like that I guess.

>

> My advice would be to go for a blood test. Ensure that you are tested for:

>

> LFT (Liver Function Test)

> FBC (Full Blood Count)

> Us & Es (Kidney Function)

> Lipids (Fasting)

>

> This will give a damn good indication of what is going on. If you want to be

100 per cent, then go for an ultrasound scan as well and if there is anything

untoward, that will pick it up.

>

> Be cool

>

> ade

>

> PS: an attack of gallstones would not cause nausea. at its very, very worst

(when it has caused liver and pancreas problems) and after it has persisted for

an hour or so, some people do find themselves vomiting, but please believe me

when I say that first of all you would be walking back and forth for the full

hour in horrendous pain (sitting down would not be an option).

>

>

> From: inc_100

> Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 10:09 PM

>

> Subject: TRT and Liver and Gallbladder Problems ???

>

>

>

> Hi All,

>

> Any one noticed any liver issues while on TRT ? Recently I am feeling chronic

" nausea " and some stiffness and dull pain under my right shoulder blade. I am

checking for symptoms and diagnosis and I read there are chances of liver toxing

because of TRT.

> Any idea ?

> I also read quite reverse ....which is with low T, your LDL and Triglicarides

go up and all this cholestrol formed in your liver end up as gallstones in the

gall bladder which causes pain in the back and also nausea.

> Any comments or suggestions or ideas ?

>

> Thanks

> Joe

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Posted
Posted

What do your thyroid numbers look like? I have hypothyroid and if my tsh isnt

..50 or lower i feel depressed and always tired. Make sure your free t4 is 1.3 or

higher as well.

> >

> > Hey there Joe

> >

> > What follows is only a personal opinion, but I doubt what you are

experiencing has anything whatsoever to do with liver problems or gallbladder

problems. My reasons...

> >

> > I have had my gallbladder removed a few years back. Trust me, my friend -

if you had a gallbladder problem there is no way you would be describing it as a

dull ache, much less be confused about what it might be. Have you ever been hit

in the stomach? If so, do you remember that horrible colic pain which goes on

for a minute or two afterwards? That is the exact pain of a gall stone, only it

goes on for hours. As the disease progresses, the attacks become more frequent

and at that point you do feel sick all the time. If you had a blood test then

(which I did), your LFT would be off the chart (due to the liver enzymes backing

up as they cannot flow away normally when the stone blocks their passage).

> >

> > Some people have high blood fats but no stones, so it does not always

follow.

> >

> > Do you take any pain meds, especially narcotic ones like codeine? Anything

of that type can cause a short but nasty attack of pancreatitis which feels very

similar to gall stones.

> >

> > Acid reflux. My mum has this. Before she was diagnosed I was convinced she

had gall stones, yet the scan advised negative - it was simply reflux but the

pain went right through to her back.

> >

> > Nausea is one of the side effects of testosterone on my information leaflet.

It can affect some people like that I guess.

> >

> > My advice would be to go for a blood test. Ensure that you are tested for:

> >

> > LFT (Liver Function Test)

> > FBC (Full Blood Count)

> > Us & Es (Kidney Function)

> > Lipids (Fasting)

> >

> > This will give a damn good indication of what is going on. If you want to

be 100 per cent, then go for an ultrasound scan as well and if there is anything

untoward, that will pick it up.

> >

> > Be cool

> >

> > ade

> >

> > PS: an attack of gallstones would not cause nausea. at its very, very

worst (when it has caused liver and pancreas problems) and after it has

persisted for an hour or so, some people do find themselves vomiting, but please

believe me when I say that first of all you would be walking back and forth for

the full hour in horrendous pain (sitting down would not be an option).

> >

> >

> > From: inc_100

> > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 10:09 PM

> >

> > Subject: TRT and Liver and Gallbladder Problems ???

> >

> >

> >

> > Hi All,

> >

> > Any one noticed any liver issues while on TRT ? Recently I am feeling

chronic " nausea " and some stiffness and dull pain under my right shoulder blade.

I am checking for symptoms and diagnosis and I read there are chances of liver

toxing because of TRT.

> > Any idea ?

> > I also read quite reverse ....which is with low T, your LDL and

Triglicarides go up and all this cholestrol formed in your liver end up as

gallstones in the gall bladder which causes pain in the back and also nausea.

> > Any comments or suggestions or ideas ?

> >

> > Thanks

> > Joe

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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Posted
Posted

I have to check my Thyroid numbers next week. Last time 3 -4 months back my

numbers were about TSH 5ng/dl so my Endo up'd my Synthroid so now I have to

check again. Thank you for your thoughts.

Joe

> > >

> > > Hey there Joe

> > >

> > > What follows is only a personal opinion, but I doubt what you are

experiencing has anything whatsoever to do with liver problems or gallbladder

problems. My reasons...

> > >

> > > I have had my gallbladder removed a few years back. Trust me, my friend -

if you had a gallbladder problem there is no way you would be describing it as a

dull ache, much less be confused about what it might be. Have you ever been hit

in the stomach? If so, do you remember that horrible colic pain which goes on

for a minute or two afterwards? That is the exact pain of a gall stone, only it

goes on for hours. As the disease progresses, the attacks become more frequent

and at that point you do feel sick all the time. If you had a blood test then

(which I did), your LFT would be off the chart (due to the liver enzymes backing

up as they cannot flow away normally when the stone blocks their passage).

> > >

> > > Some people have high blood fats but no stones, so it does not always

follow.

> > >

> > > Do you take any pain meds, especially narcotic ones like codeine?

Anything of that type can cause a short but nasty attack of pancreatitis which

feels very similar to gall stones.

> > >

> > > Acid reflux. My mum has this. Before she was diagnosed I was convinced

she had gall stones, yet the scan advised negative - it was simply reflux but

the pain went right through to her back.

> > >

> > > Nausea is one of the side effects of testosterone on my information

leaflet. It can affect some people like that I guess.

> > >

> > > My advice would be to go for a blood test. Ensure that you are tested

for:

> > >

> > > LFT (Liver Function Test)

> > > FBC (Full Blood Count)

> > > Us & Es (Kidney Function)

> > > Lipids (Fasting)

> > >

> > > This will give a damn good indication of what is going on. If you want to

be 100 per cent, then go for an ultrasound scan as well and if there is anything

untoward, that will pick it up.

> > >

> > > Be cool

> > >

> > > ade

> > >

> > > PS: an attack of gallstones would not cause nausea. at its very, very

worst (when it has caused liver and pancreas problems) and after it has

persisted for an hour or so, some people do find themselves vomiting, but please

believe me when I say that first of all you would be walking back and forth for

the full hour in horrendous pain (sitting down would not be an option).

> > >

> > >

> > > From: inc_100

> > > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 10:09 PM

> > >

> > > Subject: TRT and Liver and Gallbladder Problems ???

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Hi All,

> > >

> > > Any one noticed any liver issues while on TRT ? Recently I am feeling

chronic " nausea " and some stiffness and dull pain under my right shoulder blade.

I am checking for symptoms and diagnosis and I read there are chances of liver

toxing because of TRT.

> > > Any idea ?

> > > I also read quite reverse ....which is with low T, your LDL and

Triglicarides go up and all this cholestrol formed in your liver end up as

gallstones in the gall bladder which causes pain in the back and also nausea.

> > > Any comments or suggestions or ideas ?

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > > Joe

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

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Posted
Posted

Your thyroid is what caused your test to crash, same problem with me. really

sucks, and I understand the " retire " feeling.

> > > >

> > > > Hey there Joe

> > > >

> > > > What follows is only a personal opinion, but I doubt what you are

experiencing has anything whatsoever to do with liver problems or gallbladder

problems. My reasons...

> > > >

> > > > I have had my gallbladder removed a few years back. Trust me, my friend

- if you had a gallbladder problem there is no way you would be describing it as

a dull ache, much less be confused about what it might be. Have you ever been

hit in the stomach? If so, do you remember that horrible colic pain which goes

on for a minute or two afterwards? That is the exact pain of a gall stone, only

it goes on for hours. As the disease progresses, the attacks become more

frequent and at that point you do feel sick all the time. If you had a blood

test then (which I did), your LFT would be off the chart (due to the liver

enzymes backing up as they cannot flow away normally when the stone blocks their

passage).

> > > >

> > > > Some people have high blood fats but no stones, so it does not always

follow.

> > > >

> > > > Do you take any pain meds, especially narcotic ones like codeine?

Anything of that type can cause a short but nasty attack of pancreatitis which

feels very similar to gall stones.

> > > >

> > > > Acid reflux. My mum has this. Before she was diagnosed I was convinced

she had gall stones, yet the scan advised negative - it was simply reflux but

the pain went right through to her back.

> > > >

> > > > Nausea is one of the side effects of testosterone on my information

leaflet. It can affect some people like that I guess.

> > > >

> > > > My advice would be to go for a blood test. Ensure that you are tested

for:

> > > >

> > > > LFT (Liver Function Test)

> > > > FBC (Full Blood Count)

> > > > Us & Es (Kidney Function)

> > > > Lipids (Fasting)

> > > >

> > > > This will give a damn good indication of what is going on. If you want

to be 100 per cent, then go for an ultrasound scan as well and if there is

anything untoward, that will pick it up.

> > > >

> > > > Be cool

> > > >

> > > > ade

> > > >

> > > > PS: an attack of gallstones would not cause nausea. at its very, very

worst (when it has caused liver and pancreas problems) and after it has

persisted for an hour or so, some people do find themselves vomiting, but please

believe me when I say that first of all you would be walking back and forth for

the full hour in horrendous pain (sitting down would not be an option).

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > From: inc_100

> > > > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 10:09 PM

> > > >

> > > > Subject: TRT and Liver and Gallbladder Problems ???

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Hi All,

> > > >

> > > > Any one noticed any liver issues while on TRT ? Recently I am feeling

chronic " nausea " and some stiffness and dull pain under my right shoulder blade.

I am checking for symptoms and diagnosis and I read there are chances of liver

toxing because of TRT.

> > > > Any idea ?

> > > > I also read quite reverse ....which is with low T, your LDL and

Triglicarides go up and all this cholestrol formed in your liver end up as

gallstones in the gall bladder which causes pain in the back and also nausea.

> > > > Any comments or suggestions or ideas ?

> > > >

> > > > Thanks

> > > > Joe

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

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Posted
Posted

Hey Joe

You are more than welcome mate.

One thing I can promise is that all of what you are now experiencing will get

better. It does take some time, though.

If the pain you describe is bad and feels as I described in my last email, then

gall stones is the best explanation and your blood work will show there may be a

problem. If this is the case, please do not be worried. The operation is very

simple and all you will be left with is some bruising where the cuts were made,

a bit sore on both sides (the best remedy is to buy a few good pillows and lay

on your back - even if you do not normally sleep that way you will soon sink

into a beautiful sleep with all those pillows) and you tend to feel off food for

a while. Give it two weeks and all is better.

My honest opinion is that your gallbladder is just fine. How settled are you on

your other meds? My reason is this - a friend of mine has something called

Hashimoto's disease. Have you heard of this? If not, then it is simply an

auto-immune disorder involving the thyroid gland. First of all it throws out

enormous amounts of thyroid, then it begins to die and hence will produce none.

Thus, the treatment is carbimazole to lower the thyroid levels initially, then

the addition of thyroxine (to prevent goitre) and a beta blocker such as

atenolol to help with symptoms such as fast heart rate etc. Finally, when the

thyroid gland dies the treatment will be purely thyroxine. So, on to the point

- when my friend first started treatment with thyroxine, she felt terrible.

Nausea was most certainly one side effect.

Have you considered pancreatitis? I do not mean to be rude, Joe, but are you or

have you been a drinker? This is the classic cause of pancreatitis. Certain

drugs bring that condition on sporadically. Have a look at the side effects of

your current meds. Do they include pancreatitis? So, how would you know?

Well, that is easy - next time you feel this pain come on, I want you to do

something for me. Am I right that the pain happens in the area me and you might

refer to as the " solar plexus " (the soft area of the belly, just under the

ribs)? If so, can you massage here when you get the pain, please. Make sure

your hands are nice and warm, as that will help radiate right through to your

back. Now, pancreatitis will always get better with this (do you remember the

Gillian Taylforth scandel - ask me later if not). If this happens, again,

please do not worry. Acute pancreatitis is almost always the side effect of a

tablet. For me it is codeine. If I take codeine in any form you can be sure I

will have an attack. Also, pancreatitis will ALWAYS present with one nasty

symptom - the fever. During an attack, do you sweat and feel feverish? I am

taking, when you are in pain, do you ever touch your forehead and feel all

clammy and yet cold? That is classic pancreatitis. Again, it is acute, so not

a worry. If it is chronic then it is usually the cause of alcoholism.

Is the nausea worse at any time of the day, Joe? Is it really bad in the

morning or evening? Is it worse after food? Better still, do you tend to get

it after taking any meds?

I now and again get some nausea. I take Testogel (Androgel in the States). I

use two sachets (10g) per day and when I was experimenting with this (by that I

mean trying it in different areas - my arms, my legs etc) I did sometimes notice

nausea. The worst for this was the thin skin on the inside of my arms. This

caused a high amount of nausea and fast heart rate. I use the gel on my legs

now (upper thighs) and my bollox (sorry, testicles - I am a northern lad and

always revert to profanity and slang). This causes no such side effects and I

feel quite happy.

If you get this after food, acid reflux may well be a problem for you. Again,

no worries - you may just need to add a medication such as Nexium.

Anyway, best of luck Joe - keep us all posted. You are right, this is a

lovely, supportive group. It has helped me no end.

Take care

Ade

From: inc_100

Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 1:38 AM

Subject: Re: TRT and Liver and Gallbladder Problems ???

Hi Ade,

Thank you so much for taking time to write back. The good thing about groups

like this is instant support. Many people who actually know exactly what it is

(unlike all these doctors). To me the symptoms are not that worst but I check

out things early based on the symptoms. I will be getting the bloodtests next

week (due next week).

I am 38 yrs old and two years ago I got hypothyroid and about an year ago I

became hypogonad. These two things almost are making me 'retire'. Always sick of

something or ran out of energy. Cant remember things, cant concentrate, confused

or depressed ...and now this pain in the back and nausea .... So ... I am

concerned.

Will update you soon.

Thank you so much.

Joe

>

> Hey there Joe

>

> What follows is only a personal opinion, but I doubt what you are experiencing

has anything whatsoever to do with liver problems or gallbladder problems. My

reasons...

>

> I have had my gallbladder removed a few years back. Trust me, my friend - if

you had a gallbladder problem there is no way you would be describing it as a

dull ache, much less be confused about what it might be. Have you ever been hit

in the stomach? If so, do you remember that horrible colic pain which goes on

for a minute or two afterwards? That is the exact pain of a gall stone, only it

goes on for hours. As the disease progresses, the attacks become more frequent

and at that point you do feel sick all the time. If you had a blood test then

(which I did), your LFT would be off the chart (due to the liver enzymes backing

up as they cannot flow away normally when the stone blocks their passage).

>

> Some people have high blood fats but no stones, so it does not always follow.

>

> Do you take any pain meds, especially narcotic ones like codeine? Anything of

that type can cause a short but nasty attack of pancreatitis which feels very

similar to gall stones.

>

> Acid reflux. My mum has this. Before she was diagnosed I was convinced she had

gall stones, yet the scan advised negative - it was simply reflux but the pain

went right through to her back.

>

> Nausea is one of the side effects of testosterone on my information leaflet.

It can affect some people like that I guess.

>

> My advice would be to go for a blood test. Ensure that you are tested for:

>

> LFT (Liver Function Test)

> FBC (Full Blood Count)

> Us & Es (Kidney Function)

> Lipids (Fasting)

>

> This will give a damn good indication of what is going on. If you want to be

100 per cent, then go for an ultrasound scan as well and if there is anything

untoward, that will pick it up.

>

> Be cool

>

> ade

>

> PS: an attack of gallstones would not cause nausea. at its very, very worst

(when it has caused liver and pancreas problems) and after it has persisted for

an hour or so, some people do find themselves vomiting, but please believe me

when I say that first of all you would be walking back and forth for the full

hour in horrendous pain (sitting down would not be an option).

>

>

> From: inc_100

> Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 10:09 PM

>

> Subject: TRT and Liver and Gallbladder Problems ???

>

>

>

> Hi All,

>

> Any one noticed any liver issues while on TRT ? Recently I am feeling chronic

" nausea " and some stiffness and dull pain under my right shoulder blade. I am

checking for symptoms and diagnosis and I read there are chances of liver toxing

because of TRT.

> Any idea ?

> I also read quite reverse ....which is with low T, your LDL and Triglicarides

go up and all this cholestrol formed in your liver end up as gallstones in the

gall bladder which causes pain in the back and also nausea.

> Any comments or suggestions or ideas ?

>

> Thanks

> Joe

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Posted
Posted

Joe are you sure this is from going on TRT. I never heard of this.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: inc_100 <no_reply >

> Subject: TRT and Liver and Gallbladder Problems ???

>

> Date: Thursday, March 11, 2010, 5:09 PM

> Hi All,

>

> Any one noticed any liver issues while on TRT ? Recently I

> am feeling chronic " nausea " and some stiffness and dull pain

> under my right shoulder blade. I am checking for symptoms

> and diagnosis and I read there are chances of liver toxing

> because of TRT.

> Any idea ?

> I also read quite reverse ....which is with low T, your LDL

> and Triglicarides go up and all this cholestrol formed in

> your liver end up as gallstones in the gall bladder which

> causes pain in the back and also nausea.

> Any comments or suggestions or ideas ?

>

> Thanks

> Joe

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

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Posted
Posted

Joe if your thyroid is low and your on meds if your Cortisol levels are low some

Thyroid meds will make you sicker as your dose goes higher. Do have this

checked out low Adrenals is a Big problem with a lot of people with Thyroid and

low Testosterone levels read this link.

http://livingnetwork.co.za/hormones/adrenal-fatigue/

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: inc_100 <no_reply >

> Subject: Re: TRT and Liver and Gallbladder Problems ???

>

> Date: Thursday, March 11, 2010, 8:38 PM

>

> Hi Ade,

>

> Thank you so much for taking time to write back. The good

> thing about groups like this is instant support. Many people

> who actually know exactly what it is (unlike all these

> doctors). To me the symptoms are not that worst but I check

> out things early based on the symptoms. I will be getting

> the bloodtests next week (due next week).

> I am 38 yrs old and two years ago I got hypothyroid and

> about an year ago I became hypogonad. These two things

> almost are making me 'retire'. Always sick of something or

> ran out of energy. Cant remember things, cant concentrate,

> confused or depressed ...and now this pain in the back and

> nausea .... So ... I am concerned.

>

> Will update you soon.

>

> Thank you so much.

> Joe

>

>

> >

> > Hey there Joe

> >

> > What follows is only a personal opinion, but I doubt

> what you are experiencing has anything whatsoever to do with

> liver problems or gallbladder problems.  My reasons...

> >

> > I have had my gallbladder removed a few years

> back.  Trust me, my friend - if you had a gallbladder

> problem there is no way you would be describing it as a dull

> ache, much less be confused about what it might be. 

> Have you ever been hit in the stomach?  If so, do you

> remember that horrible colic pain which goes on for a minute

> or two afterwards?  That is the exact pain of a gall

> stone, only it goes on for hours.  As the disease

> progresses, the attacks become more frequent and at that

> point you do feel sick all the time.  If you had a

> blood test then (which I did), your LFT would be off the

> chart (due to the liver enzymes backing up as they cannot

> flow away normally when the stone blocks their passage).

> >

> > Some people have high blood fats but no stones, so it

> does not always follow.

> >

> > Do you take any pain meds, especially narcotic ones

> like codeine?  Anything of that type can cause a short

> but nasty attack of pancreatitis which feels very similar to

> gall stones.

> >

> > Acid reflux.  My mum has this.  Before she

> was diagnosed I was convinced she had gall stones, yet the

> scan advised negative - it was simply reflux but the pain

> went right through to her back.

> >

> > Nausea is one of the side effects of testosterone on

> my information leaflet.  It can affect some people like

> that I guess.

> >

> > My advice would be to go for a blood test. 

> Ensure that you are tested for:

> >

> > LFT (Liver Function Test)

> > FBC (Full Blood Count)

> > Us & Es (Kidney Function)

> > Lipids (Fasting)

> >

> > This will give a damn good indication of what is going

> on.  If you want to be 100 per cent, then go for an

> ultrasound scan as well and if there is anything untoward,

> that will pick it up.

> >

> > Be cool

> >

> > ade

> >

> > PS:  an attack of gallstones would not cause

> nausea.  at its very, very worst (when it has caused

> liver and pancreas problems) and after it has persisted for

> an hour or so, some people do find themselves vomiting, but

> please believe me when I say that first of all you would be

> walking back and forth for the full hour in horrendous pain

> (sitting down would not be an option).

> >

> >

> > From: inc_100

> > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 10:09 PM

> >

>

> > Subject: TRT and Liver and Gallbladder

> Problems ???

> >

> >

> >   

> > Hi All,

> >

> > Any one noticed any liver issues while on TRT ?

> Recently I am feeling chronic " nausea " and some stiffness

> and dull pain under my right shoulder blade. I am checking

> for symptoms and diagnosis and I read there are chances of

> liver toxing because of TRT.

> > Any idea ?

> > I also read quite reverse ....which is with low T,

> your LDL and Triglicarides go up and all this cholestrol

> formed in your liver end up as gallstones in the gall

> bladder which causes pain in the back and also nausea.

> > Any comments or suggestions or ideas ?

> >

> > Thanks

> > Joe

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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Posted
Posted

Good point after being a mod for men only on there Thyroid and Adrenals I have

found the best meds for this problem are natural dessicated thyroid like Armour

but we can't get Armour anymore and the new stuff they came out with dose not

work very well. So we get Erfa from Canada.

http://www.erfa-sa.com/thyroid_usa.htm

Or

http://www.universaldrugstore.com/medications/Thyroid/60mg

But you need good Adrenals so have your Cortisol levels checked if doing a

morning fasting test and it comes back 15 or lower then do a 4x's in a day

Saliva test to see how our rhythm looks.

Here are some good links about Thyroid and Adreanls.

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/how-to-treat

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/faq/

In this link it's some of the best parts of Dr. McK. Jeffries book " Safe

Uses of Cortisol "

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/safe-uses/

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: andrenym007 <no_reply >

> Subject: Re: TRT and Liver and Gallbladder Problems ???

>

> Date: Thursday, March 11, 2010, 9:31 PM

> What do your thyroid numbers look

> like? I have hypothyroid and if my tsh isnt .50 or lower i

> feel depressed and always tired. Make sure your free t4 is

> 1.3 or higher as well.

>

>

> > >

> > > Hey there Joe

> > >

> > > What follows is only a personal opinion, but I

> doubt what you are experiencing has anything whatsoever to

> do with liver problems or gallbladder problems.  My

> reasons...

> > >

> > > I have had my gallbladder removed a few years

> back.  Trust me, my friend - if you had a gallbladder

> problem there is no way you would be describing it as a dull

> ache, much less be confused about what it might be. 

> Have you ever been hit in the stomach?  If so, do you

> remember that horrible colic pain which goes on for a minute

> or two afterwards?  That is the exact pain of a gall

> stone, only it goes on for hours.  As the disease

> progresses, the attacks become more frequent and at that

> point you do feel sick all the time.  If you had a

> blood test then (which I did), your LFT would be off the

> chart (due to the liver enzymes backing up as they cannot

> flow away normally when the stone blocks their passage).

> > >

> > > Some people have high blood fats but no stones,

> so it does not always follow.

> > >

> > > Do you take any pain meds, especially narcotic

> ones like codeine?  Anything of that type can cause a

> short but nasty attack of pancreatitis which feels very

> similar to gall stones.

> > >

> > > Acid reflux.  My mum has this.  Before

> she was diagnosed I was convinced she had gall stones, yet

> the scan advised negative - it was simply reflux but the

> pain went right through to her back.

> > >

> > > Nausea is one of the side effects of testosterone

> on my information leaflet.  It can affect some people

> like that I guess.

> > >

> > > My advice would be to go for a blood test. 

> Ensure that you are tested for:

> > >

> > > LFT (Liver Function Test)

> > > FBC (Full Blood Count)

> > > Us & Es (Kidney Function)

> > > Lipids (Fasting)

> > >

> > > This will give a damn good indication of what is

> going on.  If you want to be 100 per cent, then go for

> an ultrasound scan as well and if there is anything

> untoward, that will pick it up.

> > >

> > > Be cool

> > >

> > > ade

> > >

> > > PS:  an attack of gallstones would not cause

> nausea.  at its very, very worst (when it has caused

> liver and pancreas problems) and after it has persisted for

> an hour or so, some people do find themselves vomiting, but

> please believe me when I say that first of all you would be

> walking back and forth for the full hour in horrendous pain

> (sitting down would not be an option).

> > >

> > >

> > > From: inc_100

> > > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 10:09 PM

> > >

>

> > > Subject: TRT and Liver and

> Gallbladder Problems ???

> > >

> > >

> > >   

> > > Hi All,

> > >

> > > Any one noticed any liver issues while on TRT ?

> Recently I am feeling chronic " nausea " and some stiffness

> and dull pain under my right shoulder blade. I am checking

> for symptoms and diagnosis and I read there are chances of

> liver toxing because of TRT.

> > > Any idea ?

> > > I also read quite reverse ....which is with low

> T, your LDL and Triglicarides go up and all this cholestrol

> formed in your liver end up as gallstones in the gall

> bladder which causes pain in the back and also nausea.

> > > Any comments or suggestions or ideas ?

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > > Joe

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

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Posted
Posted

Phil,

How do you like erfa? Is it working good? I was considering natur-throid as

well.

> > > >

> > > > Hey there Joe

> > > >

> > > > What follows is only a personal opinion, but I

> > doubt what you are experiencing has anything whatsoever to

> > do with liver problems or gallbladder problems.  My

> > reasons...

> > > >

> > > > I have had my gallbladder removed a few years

> > back.  Trust me, my friend - if you had a gallbladder

> > problem there is no way you would be describing it as a dull

> > ache, much less be confused about what it might be. 

> > Have you ever been hit in the stomach?  If so, do you

> > remember that horrible colic pain which goes on for a minute

> > or two afterwards?  That is the exact pain of a gall

> > stone, only it goes on for hours.  As the disease

> > progresses, the attacks become more frequent and at that

> > point you do feel sick all the time.  If you had a

> > blood test then (which I did), your LFT would be off the

> > chart (due to the liver enzymes backing up as they cannot

> > flow away normally when the stone blocks their passage).

> > > >

> > > > Some people have high blood fats but no stones,

> > so it does not always follow.

> > > >

> > > > Do you take any pain meds, especially narcotic

> > ones like codeine?  Anything of that type can cause a

> > short but nasty attack of pancreatitis which feels very

> > similar to gall stones.

> > > >

> > > > Acid reflux.  My mum has this.  Before

> > she was diagnosed I was convinced she had gall stones, yet

> > the scan advised negative - it was simply reflux but the

> > pain went right through to her back.

> > > >

> > > > Nausea is one of the side effects of testosterone

> > on my information leaflet.  It can affect some people

> > like that I guess.

> > > >

> > > > My advice would be to go for a blood test. 

> > Ensure that you are tested for:

> > > >

> > > > LFT (Liver Function Test)

> > > > FBC (Full Blood Count)

> > > > Us & Es (Kidney Function)

> > > > Lipids (Fasting)

> > > >

> > > > This will give a damn good indication of what is

> > going on.  If you want to be 100 per cent, then go for

> > an ultrasound scan as well and if there is anything

> > untoward, that will pick it up.

> > > >

> > > > Be cool

> > > >

> > > > ade

> > > >

> > > > PS:  an attack of gallstones would not cause

> > nausea.  at its very, very worst (when it has caused

> > liver and pancreas problems) and after it has persisted for

> > an hour or so, some people do find themselves vomiting, but

> > please believe me when I say that first of all you would be

> > walking back and forth for the full hour in horrendous pain

> > (sitting down would not be an option).

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > From: inc_100

> > > > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 10:09 PM

> > > >

> >

> > > > Subject: TRT and Liver and

> > Gallbladder Problems ???

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >   

> > > > Hi All,

> > > >

> > > > Any one noticed any liver issues while on TRT ?

> > Recently I am feeling chronic " nausea " and some stiffness

> > and dull pain under my right shoulder blade. I am checking

> > for symptoms and diagnosis and I read there are chances of

> > liver toxing because of TRT.

> > > > Any idea ?

> > > > I also read quite reverse ....which is with low

> > T, your LDL and Triglicarides go up and all this cholestrol

> > formed in your liver end up as gallstones in the gall

> > bladder which causes pain in the back and also nausea.

> > > > Any comments or suggestions or ideas ?

> > > >

> > > > Thanks

> > > > Joe

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

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Posted
Posted

Wow I can't say anything good about Endo's and low Testosterone let let alone

Thyroid Problems not good. The tests one needs for checking Thyroid on meds is

not TSH this is the message sent to your Thyroid to tell it to make more

hormones. You need to test what is in this link.

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/recommended-labwork/

Most people don't do well on T4 only meds like Synthroid and Endo's push this

crap on people even when they don't do good on it. Doing a T4 only med stress's

out ones Adrenals and over time will over work them.

I have talked to Thousands of people on T4 only meds seeing Endo's that were

shocked to see all there problems gone going on Armour type meds.

My wife was one of them she wasted 15 yrs of her life seeing Endo's one after

the other. And all of them gave her Synthroid until the last one told her to

lose weight and that here TSH looks fine her meds are working great your

Depressed her take this Prozac that was it. She found a Dr. at the Armour web

site that treats with Armour and she went on this and now is fine.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: inc_100 <no_reply >

> Subject: Re: TRT and Liver and Gallbladder Problems ???

>

> Date: Thursday, March 11, 2010, 9:45 PM

> I have to check my Thyroid numbers

> next week. Last time 3 -4 months back my numbers were

> about  TSH 5ng/dl so my Endo up'd my Synthroid so now I

> have to check again. Thank you for your thoughts.

>

> Joe

>

>

> > > >

> > > > Hey there Joe

> > > >

> > > > What follows is only a personal opinion, but

> I doubt what you are experiencing has anything whatsoever to

> do with liver problems or gallbladder problems.  My

> reasons...

> > > >

> > > > I have had my gallbladder removed a few

> years back.  Trust me, my friend - if you had a

> gallbladder problem there is no way you would be describing

> it as a dull ache, much less be confused about what it might

> be.  Have you ever been hit in the stomach?  If

> so, do you remember that horrible colic pain which goes on

> for a minute or two afterwards?  That is the exact pain

> of a gall stone, only it goes on for hours.  As the

> disease progresses, the attacks become more frequent and at

> that point you do feel sick all the time.  If you had a

> blood test then (which I did), your LFT would be off the

> chart (due to the liver enzymes backing up as they cannot

> flow away normally when the stone blocks their passage).

> > > >

> > > > Some people have high blood fats but no

> stones, so it does not always follow.

> > > >

> > > > Do you take any pain meds, especially

> narcotic ones like codeine?  Anything of that type can

> cause a short but nasty attack of pancreatitis which feels

> very similar to gall stones.

> > > >

> > > > Acid reflux.  My mum has this. 

> Before she was diagnosed I was convinced she had gall

> stones, yet the scan advised negative - it was simply reflux

> but the pain went right through to her back.

> > > >

> > > > Nausea is one of the side effects of

> testosterone on my information leaflet.  It can affect

> some people like that I guess.

> > > >

> > > > My advice would be to go for a blood

> test.  Ensure that you are tested for:

> > > >

> > > > LFT (Liver Function Test)

> > > > FBC (Full Blood Count)

> > > > Us & Es (Kidney Function)

> > > > Lipids (Fasting)

> > > >

> > > > This will give a damn good indication of

> what is going on.  If you want to be 100 per cent, then

> go for an ultrasound scan as well and if there is anything

> untoward, that will pick it up.

> > > >

> > > > Be cool

> > > >

> > > > ade

> > > >

> > > > PS:  an attack of gallstones would not

> cause nausea.  at its very, very worst (when it has

> caused liver and pancreas problems) and after it has

> persisted for an hour or so, some people do find themselves

> vomiting, but please believe me when I say that first of all

> you would be walking back and forth for the full hour in

> horrendous pain (sitting down would not be an option).

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > From: inc_100

> > > > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 10:09 PM

> > > >

>

> > > > Subject: TRT and Liver and

> Gallbladder Problems ???

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >   

> > > > Hi All,

> > > >

> > > > Any one noticed any liver issues while on

> TRT ? Recently I am feeling chronic " nausea " and some

> stiffness and dull pain under my right shoulder blade. I am

> checking for symptoms and diagnosis and I read there are

> chances of liver toxing because of TRT.

> > > > Any idea ?

> > > > I also read quite reverse ....which is with

> low T, your LDL and Triglicarides go up and all this

> cholestrol formed in your liver end up as gallstones in the

> gall bladder which causes pain in the back and also nausea.

> > > > Any comments or suggestions or ideas ?

> > > >

> > > > Thanks

> > > > Joe

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

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Posted
Posted

Let me add to this not to scare you but I had heartburn and acid reflux after a

yr. of this crap taking meds for it and it not getting any better. I asked my

Dr. to check my heart we did a stress test they put me on a Treadmill I lasted

about 2 min's on this then they shot me up with some RAI die and did a scan on

my heart and the arteries leading to it. Nothing showed up so I asked about a

better test so he order a 24 bit scan telling me if nothing shows up my BCBS

might in pay for it. I ended up having two 99% blockages and the 3rd artery

feeling my heat was defected from birth not working well and it was all that was

keeping me alive. It's a long story you can read about it in this link the part

about the Update on my Heart.

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=5 & t=9239

So all I am saying is check every thing I would not be here today had I not

pushed my Dr. to check deeper.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Ade Rowley <spadeboy@...>

> Subject: Re: TRT and Liver and Gallbladder Problems ???

>

> Date: Thursday, March 11, 2010, 11:41 PM

> Hey Joe

>

> You are more than welcome mate.

>

> One thing I can promise is that all of what you are now

> experiencing will get better.  It does take some time,

> though.

>

> If the pain you describe is bad and feels as I described in

> my last email, then gall stones is the best explanation and

> your blood work will show there may be a problem.  If

> this is the case, please do not be worried.  The

> operation is very simple and all you will be left with is

> some bruising where the cuts were made, a bit sore on both

> sides (the best remedy is to buy a few good pillows and lay

> on your back - even if you do not normally sleep that way

> you will soon sink into a beautiful sleep with all those

> pillows) and you tend to feel off food for a while. 

> Give it two weeks and all is better.

>

> My honest opinion is that your gallbladder is just

> fine.  How settled are you on your other meds?  My

> reason is this - a friend of mine has something called

> Hashimoto's disease.  Have you heard of this?  If

> not, then it is simply an auto-immune disorder involving the

> thyroid gland.  First of all it throws out enormous

> amounts of thyroid, then it begins to die and hence will

> produce none.  Thus, the treatment is carbimazole to

> lower the thyroid levels initially, then the addition of

> thyroxine (to prevent goitre) and a beta blocker such as

> atenolol to help with symptoms such as fast heart rate

> etc.  Finally, when the thyroid gland dies the

> treatment will be purely thyroxine.  So, on to the

> point - when my friend first started treatment with

> thyroxine, she felt terrible.  Nausea was most

> certainly one side effect.

>

> Have you considered pancreatitis?  I do not mean to be

> rude, Joe, but are you or have you been a drinker? 

> This is the classic cause of pancreatitis.  Certain

> drugs bring that condition on sporadically.  Have a

> look at the side effects of your current meds.  Do they

> include pancreatitis?  So, how would you know? 

> Well, that is easy - next time you feel this pain come on, I

> want you to do something for me.  Am I right that the

> pain happens in the area me and you might refer to as the

> " solar plexus " (the soft area of the belly, just under the

> ribs)?  If so, can you massage here when you get the

> pain, please.  Make sure your hands are nice and warm,

> as that will help radiate right through to your back. 

> Now, pancreatitis will always get better with this (do you

> remember the Gillian Taylforth scandel - ask me later if

> not).  If this happens, again, please do not

> worry.  Acute pancreatitis is almost always the side

> effect of a tablet.  For me it is codeine.  If I

> take codeine in any form you can be sure I will have an

> attack.  Also, pancreatitis will ALWAYS present with

> one nasty symptom - the fever.  During an attack, do

> you sweat and feel feverish?  I am taking, when you are

> in pain, do you ever touch your forehead and feel all clammy

> and yet cold?  That is classic pancreatitis. 

> Again, it is acute, so not a worry.  If it is chronic

> then it is usually the cause of alcoholism.

>

> Is the nausea worse at any time of the day, Joe?  Is

> it really bad in the morning or evening?  Is it worse

> after food?  Better still, do you tend to get it after

> taking any meds? 

>

> I now and again get some nausea.  I take Testogel

> (Androgel in the States).  I use two sachets (10g) per

> day and when I was experimenting with this (by that I mean

> trying it in different areas - my arms, my legs etc) I did

> sometimes notice nausea.  The worst for this was the

> thin skin on the inside of my arms.  This caused a high

> amount of nausea and fast heart rate.  I use the gel on

> my legs now (upper thighs) and my bollox (sorry, testicles -

> I am a northern lad and always revert to profanity and

> slang).  This causes no such side effects and I feel

> quite happy.

>

> If you get this after food, acid reflux may well be a

> problem for you.  Again, no worries - you may just need

> to add a medication such as Nexium. 

>

> Anyway, best of luck Joe -  keep us all posted. 

> You are right, this is a lovely, supportive group.  It

> has helped me no end.

>

> Take care

> Ade

>

>

> From: inc_100

> Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 1:38 AM

>

>

> Subject: Re: TRT and Liver and Gallbladder

> Problems ???

>

>

>  

>

> Hi Ade,

>

> Thank you so much for taking time to write back. The good

> thing about groups like this is instant support. Many people

> who actually know exactly what it is (unlike all these

> doctors). To me the symptoms are not that worst but I check

> out things early based on the symptoms. I will be getting

> the bloodtests next week (due next week).

> I am 38 yrs old and two years ago I got hypothyroid and

> about an year ago I became hypogonad. These two things

> almost are making me 'retire'. Always sick of something or

> ran out of energy. Cant remember things, cant concentrate,

> confused or depressed ...and now this pain in the back and

> nausea .... So ... I am concerned.

>

> Will update you soon.

>

> Thank you so much.

> Joe

>

>

> >

> > Hey there Joe

> >

> > What follows is only a personal opinion, but I doubt

> what you are experiencing has anything whatsoever to do with

> liver problems or gallbladder problems. My reasons...

> >

> > I have had my gallbladder removed a few years back.

> Trust me, my friend - if you had a gallbladder problem there

> is no way you would be describing it as a dull ache, much

> less be confused about what it might be. Have you ever been

> hit in the stomach? If so, do you remember that horrible

> colic pain which goes on for a minute or two afterwards?

> That is the exact pain of a gall stone, only it goes on for

> hours. As the disease progresses, the attacks become more

> frequent and at that point you do feel sick all the time. If

> you had a blood test then (which I did), your LFT would be

> off the chart (due to the liver enzymes backing up as they

> cannot flow away normally when the stone blocks their

> passage).

> >

> > Some people have high blood fats but no stones, so it

> does not always follow.

> >

> > Do you take any pain meds, especially narcotic ones

> like codeine? Anything of that type can cause a short but

> nasty attack of pancreatitis which feels very similar to

> gall stones.

> >

> > Acid reflux. My mum has this. Before she was diagnosed

> I was convinced she had gall stones, yet the scan advised

> negative - it was simply reflux but the pain went right

> through to her back.

> >

> > Nausea is one of the side effects of testosterone on

> my information leaflet. It can affect some people like that

> I guess.

> >

> > My advice would be to go for a blood test. Ensure that

> you are tested for:

> >

> > LFT (Liver Function Test)

> > FBC (Full Blood Count)

> > Us & Es (Kidney Function)

> > Lipids (Fasting)

> >

> > This will give a damn good indication of what is going

> on. If you want to be 100 per cent, then go for an

> ultrasound scan as well and if there is anything untoward,

> that will pick it up.

> >

> > Be cool

> >

> > ade

> >

> > PS: an attack of gallstones would not cause nausea. at

> its very, very worst (when it has caused liver and pancreas

> problems) and after it has persisted for an hour or so, some

> people do find themselves vomiting, but please believe me

> when I say that first of all you would be walking back and

> forth for the full hour in horrendous pain (sitting down

> would not be an option).

> >

> >

> > From: inc_100

> > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 10:09 PM

> >

>

> > Subject: TRT and Liver and Gallbladder

> Problems ???

> >

> >

> >

> > Hi All,

> >

> > Any one noticed any liver issues while on TRT ?

> Recently I am feeling chronic " nausea " and some stiffness

> and dull pain under my right shoulder blade. I am checking

> for symptoms and diagnosis and I read there are chances of

> liver toxing because of TRT.

> > Any idea ?

> > I also read quite reverse ....which is with low T,

> your LDL and Triglicarides go up and all this cholestrol

> formed in your liver end up as gallstones in the gall

> bladder which causes pain in the back and also nausea.

> > Any comments or suggestions or ideas ?

> >

> > Thanks

> > Joe

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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Posted
Posted

I am not on it but everyone I know that is are doing great you can try

natur-throid but most of the time it's on back order. Then thing about useing

erfa is most drug care plains will not cover it. Still the cost it not all that

bad and I feel from what others that were on natur-throid that got erfa say they

feel much better on the erfa.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: andrenym007 <no_reply >

> Subject: Re: TRT and Liver and Gallbladder Problems ???

>

> Date: Friday, March 12, 2010, 10:21 AM

> Phil,

>

> How do you like erfa? Is it working good? I was considering

> natur-throid as well.

>

>

> > > > >

> > > > > Hey there Joe

> > > > >

> > > > > What follows is only a personal

> opinion, but I

> > > doubt what you are experiencing has anything

> whatsoever to

> > > do with liver problems or gallbladder problems. 

> My

> > > reasons...

> > > > >

> > > > > I have had my gallbladder removed a few

> years

> > > back.  Trust me, my friend - if you had a

> gallbladder

> > > problem there is no way you would be describing

> it as a dull

> > > ache, much less be confused about what it might

> be. 

> > > Have you ever been hit in the stomach?  If so,

> do you

> > > remember that horrible colic pain which goes on

> for a minute

> > > or two afterwards?  That is the exact pain of a

> gall

> > > stone, only it goes on for hours.  As the

> disease

> > > progresses, the attacks become more frequent and

> at that

> > > point you do feel sick all the time.  If you had

> a

> > > blood test then (which I did), your LFT would be

> off the

> > > chart (due to the liver enzymes backing up as

> they cannot

> > > flow away normally when the stone blocks their

> passage).

> > > > >

> > > > > Some people have high blood fats but no

> stones,

> > > so it does not always follow.

> > > > >

> > > > > Do you take any pain meds, especially

> narcotic

> > > ones like codeine?  Anything of that type can

> cause a

> > > short but nasty attack of pancreatitis which

> feels very

> > > similar to gall stones.

> > > > >

> > > > > Acid reflux.  My mum has this. 

> Before

> > > she was diagnosed I was convinced she had gall

> stones, yet

> > > the scan advised negative - it was simply reflux

> but the

> > > pain went right through to her back.

> > > > >

> > > > > Nausea is one of the side effects of

> testosterone

> > > on my information leaflet.  It can affect some

> people

> > > like that I guess.

> > > > >

> > > > > My advice would be to go for a blood

> test. 

> > > Ensure that you are tested for:

> > > > >

> > > > > LFT (Liver Function Test)

> > > > > FBC (Full Blood Count)

> > > > > Us & Es (Kidney Function)

> > > > > Lipids (Fasting)

> > > > >

> > > > > This will give a damn good indication

> of what is

> > > going on.  If you want to be 100 per cent, then

> go for

> > > an ultrasound scan as well and if there is

> anything

> > > untoward, that will pick it up.

> > > > >

> > > > > Be cool

> > > > >

> > > > > ade

> > > > >

> > > > > PS:  an attack of gallstones would not

> cause

> > > nausea.  at its very, very worst (when it has

> caused

> > > liver and pancreas problems) and after it has

> persisted for

> > > an hour or so, some people do find themselves

> vomiting, but

> > > please believe me when I say that first of all

> you would be

> > > walking back and forth for the full hour in

> horrendous pain

> > > (sitting down would not be an option).

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > From: inc_100

> > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 10:09

> PM

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Subject: TRT and Liver

> and

> > > Gallbladder Problems ???

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >   

> > > > > Hi All,

> > > > >

> > > > > Any one noticed any liver issues while

> on TRT ?

> > > Recently I am feeling chronic " nausea " and some

> stiffness

> > > and dull pain under my right shoulder blade. I am

> checking

> > > for symptoms and diagnosis and I read there are

> chances of

> > > liver toxing because of TRT.

> > > > > Any idea ?

> > > > > I also read quite reverse ....which is

> with low

> > > T, your LDL and Triglicarides go up and all this

> cholestrol

> > > formed in your liver end up as gallstones in the

> gall

> > > bladder which causes pain in the back and also

> nausea.

> > > > > Any comments or suggestions or ideas ?

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks

> > > > > Joe

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have

> been

> > > removed]

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

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Posted
Posted

Hi Ade,

Thank you for all the info. You are right. I have " Hashimotos Disease " and I am

on Synthroid 88mcg now. Till Dec I was on 75mcg but my lab results showed a bit

high TSH so my Endo put me on to 88now. I have to go for my next bloodwork next

week.

Also, I dont take alchohol neither I smoke. I used to take a drink (wine or

beer) or two in a whole year but not now any more. Its been more than an year

that I drank alcohol.

I dont have any fever nor any sweating. Yesterday I noticed nausea after taking

my DIM tablet. So I skipped my lunch (just had a fruit) and then had dinner in

the evening at 9PM and I am just fine. But now I have to check again after I

finish my lunch if I feel Nausea. I am still checking what time of the day that

my nausea is worst.

I hope it is just acid reflux but I will get it checked to make sure. I will

post the results and the diagnosis after I come back from the doctor.

Thank you so much and have a gread day.

Joe

>

> Hey Joe

>

> You are more than welcome mate.

>

> One thing I can promise is that all of what you are now experiencing will get

better. It does take some time, though.

>

> If the pain you describe is bad and feels as I described in my last email,

then gall stones is the best explanation and your blood work will show there may

be a problem. If this is the case, please do not be worried. The operation is

very simple and all you will be left with is some bruising where the cuts were

made, a bit sore on both sides (the best remedy is to buy a few good pillows and

lay on your back - even if you do not normally sleep that way you will soon sink

into a beautiful sleep with all those pillows) and you tend to feel off food for

a while. Give it two weeks and all is better.

>

> My honest opinion is that your gallbladder is just fine. How settled are you

on your other meds? My reason is this - a friend of mine has something called

Hashimoto's disease. Have you heard of this? If not, then it is simply an

auto-immune disorder involving the thyroid gland. First of all it throws out

enormous amounts of thyroid, then it begins to die and hence will produce none.

Thus, the treatment is carbimazole to lower the thyroid levels initially, then

the addition of thyroxine (to prevent goitre) and a beta blocker such as

atenolol to help with symptoms such as fast heart rate etc. Finally, when the

thyroid gland dies the treatment will be purely thyroxine. So, on to the point

- when my friend first started treatment with thyroxine, she felt terrible.

Nausea was most certainly one side effect.

>

> Have you considered pancreatitis? I do not mean to be rude, Joe, but are you

or have you been a drinker? This is the classic cause of pancreatitis. Certain

drugs bring that condition on sporadically. Have a look at the side effects of

your current meds. Do they include pancreatitis? So, how would you know?

Well, that is easy - next time you feel this pain come on, I want you to do

something for me. Am I right that the pain happens in the area me and you might

refer to as the " solar plexus " (the soft area of the belly, just under the

ribs)? If so, can you massage here when you get the pain, please. Make sure

your hands are nice and warm, as that will help radiate right through to your

back. Now, pancreatitis will always get better with this (do you remember the

Gillian Taylforth scandel - ask me later if not). If this happens, again,

please do not worry. Acute pancreatitis is almost always the side effect of a

tablet. For me it is codeine. If I take codeine in any form you can be sure I

will have an attack. Also, pancreatitis will ALWAYS present with one nasty

symptom - the fever. During an attack, do you sweat and feel feverish? I am

taking, when you are in pain, do you ever touch your forehead and feel all

clammy and yet cold? That is classic pancreatitis. Again, it is acute, so not

a worry. If it is chronic then it is usually the cause of alcoholism.

>

> Is the nausea worse at any time of the day, Joe? Is it really bad in the

morning or evening? Is it worse after food? Better still, do you tend to get

it after taking any meds?

>

> I now and again get some nausea. I take Testogel (Androgel in the States). I

use two sachets (10g) per day and when I was experimenting with this (by that I

mean trying it in different areas - my arms, my legs etc) I did sometimes notice

nausea. The worst for this was the thin skin on the inside of my arms. This

caused a high amount of nausea and fast heart rate. I use the gel on my legs

now (upper thighs) and my bollox (sorry, testicles - I am a northern lad and

always revert to profanity and slang). This causes no such side effects and I

feel quite happy.

>

> If you get this after food, acid reflux may well be a problem for you. Again,

no worries - you may just need to add a medication such as Nexium.

>

> Anyway, best of luck Joe - keep us all posted. You are right, this is a

lovely, supportive group. It has helped me no end.

>

> Take care

> Ade

>

>

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Posted
Posted

Phil, I am going to get a complete anual check up (the saliva tests)

Thank you,

Joe

> > >

> > > Hey there Joe

> > >

> > > What follows is only a personal opinion, but I doubt

> > what you are experiencing has anything whatsoever to do with

> > liver problems or gallbladder problems.  My reasons...

> > >

> > > I have had my gallbladder removed a few years

> > back.  Trust me, my friend - if you had a gallbladder

> > problem there is no way you would be describing it as a dull

> > ache, much less be confused about what it might be. 

> > Have you ever been hit in the stomach?  If so, do you

> > remember that horrible colic pain which goes on for a minute

> > or two afterwards?  That is the exact pain of a gall

> > stone, only it goes on for hours.  As the disease

> > progresses, the attacks become more frequent and at that

> > point you do feel sick all the time.  If you had a

> > blood test then (which I did), your LFT would be off the

> > chart (due to the liver enzymes backing up as they cannot

> > flow away normally when the stone blocks their passage).

> > >

> > > Some people have high blood fats but no stones, so it

> > does not always follow.

> > >

> > > Do you take any pain meds, especially narcotic ones

> > like codeine?  Anything of that type can cause a short

> > but nasty attack of pancreatitis which feels very similar to

> > gall stones.

> > >

> > > Acid reflux.  My mum has this.  Before she

> > was diagnosed I was convinced she had gall stones, yet the

> > scan advised negative - it was simply reflux but the pain

> > went right through to her back.

> > >

> > > Nausea is one of the side effects of testosterone on

> > my information leaflet.  It can affect some people like

> > that I guess.

> > >

> > > My advice would be to go for a blood test. 

> > Ensure that you are tested for:

> > >

> > > LFT (Liver Function Test)

> > > FBC (Full Blood Count)

> > > Us & Es (Kidney Function)

> > > Lipids (Fasting)

> > >

> > > This will give a damn good indication of what is going

> > on.  If you want to be 100 per cent, then go for an

> > ultrasound scan as well and if there is anything untoward,

> > that will pick it up.

> > >

> > > Be cool

> > >

> > > ade

> > >

> > > PS:  an attack of gallstones would not cause

> > nausea.  at its very, very worst (when it has caused

> > liver and pancreas problems) and after it has persisted for

> > an hour or so, some people do find themselves vomiting, but

> > please believe me when I say that first of all you would be

> > walking back and forth for the full hour in horrendous pain

> > (sitting down would not be an option).

> > >

> > >

> > > From: inc_100

> > > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 10:09 PM

> > >

> >

> > > Subject: TRT and Liver and Gallbladder

> > Problems ???

> > >

> > >

> > >   

> > > Hi All,

> > >

> > > Any one noticed any liver issues while on TRT ?

> > Recently I am feeling chronic " nausea " and some stiffness

> > and dull pain under my right shoulder blade. I am checking

> > for symptoms and diagnosis and I read there are chances of

> > liver toxing because of TRT.

> > > Any idea ?

> > > I also read quite reverse ....which is with low T,

> > your LDL and Triglicarides go up and all this cholestrol

> > formed in your liver end up as gallstones in the gall

> > bladder which causes pain in the back and also nausea.

> > > Any comments or suggestions or ideas ?

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > > Joe

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

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Posted
Posted

Not sure. This is only a question if anyone else experienced the same problems.

Thank you, Joe

>

> > From: inc_100 <no_reply >

> > Subject: TRT and Liver and Gallbladder Problems ???

> >

> > Date: Thursday, March 11, 2010, 5:09 PM

> > Hi All,

> >

> > Any one noticed any liver issues while on TRT ? Recently I

> > am feeling chronic " nausea " and some stiffness and dull pain

> > under my right shoulder blade. I am checking for symptoms

> > and diagnosis and I read there are chances of liver toxing

> > because of TRT.

> > Any idea ?

> > I also read quite reverse ....which is with low T, your LDL

> > and Triglicarides go up and all this cholestrol formed in

> > your liver end up as gallstones in the gall bladder which

> > causes pain in the back and also nausea.

> > Any comments or suggestions or ideas ?

> >

> > Thanks

> > Joe

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

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Posted
Posted

When I was on two cholesterol medications at once, my liver enzymes became

elevated and I felt like I had the flu.  I did not have any nausea, pain, or

stiffness however.  When I started TRT, my " good " cholesterol initially went

down and my triglycerides also decreased.

Some doctors claim that a diet high in fat and cholesterol lead to gallstones. 

However, it's more likely that a diet high in refined carbohydrates lead to

gallstones.  Dietary cholesterol has little if any effect on blood cholesterol.

________________________________

From: inc_100 <no_reply >

Sent: Fri, March 12, 2010 12:46:39 PM

Subject: Re: TRT and Liver and Gallbladder Problems ???

 

Not sure. This is only a question if anyone else experienced the same problems.

Thank you, Joe

>

> > From: inc_100 <no_reply@group s.com>

> > Subject: TRT and Liver and Gallbladder Problems ???

> >

> > Date: Thursday, March 11, 2010, 5:09 PM

> > Hi All,

> >

> > Any one noticed any liver issues while on TRT ? Recently I

> > am feeling chronic " nausea " and some stiffness and dull pain

> > under my right shoulder blade. I am checking for symptoms

> > and diagnosis and I read there are chances of liver toxing

> > because of TRT.

> > Any idea ?

> > I also read quite reverse ....which is with low T, your LDL

> > and Triglicarides go up and all this cholestrol formed in

> > your liver end up as gallstones in the gall bladder which

> > causes pain in the back and also nausea.

> > Any comments or suggestions or ideas ?

> >

> > Thanks

> > Joe

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------ --------- --------- ------

> >

> >

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Posted
Posted

That is great Joe this why you know what is going on.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: inc_100 <no_reply >

> Subject: Re: TRT and Liver and Gallbladder Problems ???

>

> Date: Friday, March 12, 2010, 12:39 PM

> Phil, I am going to get a complete

> anual check up (the saliva tests)

> Thank you,

> Joe

>

>

> > > >

> > > > Hey there Joe

> > > >

> > > > What follows is only a personal opinion, but

> I doubt

> > > what you are experiencing has anything whatsoever

> to do with

> > > liver problems or gallbladder problems.  My

> reasons...

> > > >

> > > > I have had my gallbladder removed a few

> years

> > > back.  Trust me, my friend - if you had a

> gallbladder

> > > problem there is no way you would be describing

> it as a dull

> > > ache, much less be confused about what it might

> be. 

> > > Have you ever been hit in the stomach?  If so,

> do you

> > > remember that horrible colic pain which goes on

> for a minute

> > > or two afterwards?  That is the exact pain of a

> gall

> > > stone, only it goes on for hours.  As the

> disease

> > > progresses, the attacks become more frequent and

> at that

> > > point you do feel sick all the time.  If you had

> a

> > > blood test then (which I did), your LFT would be

> off the

> > > chart (due to the liver enzymes backing up as

> they cannot

> > > flow away normally when the stone blocks their

> passage).

> > > >

> > > > Some people have high blood fats but no

> stones, so it

> > > does not always follow.

> > > >

> > > > Do you take any pain meds, especially

> narcotic ones

> > > like codeine?  Anything of that type can cause a

> short

> > > but nasty attack of pancreatitis which feels very

> similar to

> > > gall stones.

> > > >

> > > > Acid reflux.  My mum has this.  Before

> she

> > > was diagnosed I was convinced she had gall

> stones, yet the

> > > scan advised negative - it was simply reflux but

> the pain

> > > went right through to her back.

> > > >

> > > > Nausea is one of the side effects of

> testosterone on

> > > my information leaflet.  It can affect some

> people like

> > > that I guess.

> > > >

> > > > My advice would be to go for a blood

> test. 

> > > Ensure that you are tested for:

> > > >

> > > > LFT (Liver Function Test)

> > > > FBC (Full Blood Count)

> > > > Us & Es (Kidney Function)

> > > > Lipids (Fasting)

> > > >

> > > > This will give a damn good indication of

> what is going

> > > on.  If you want to be 100 per cent, then go for

> an

> > > ultrasound scan as well and if there is anything

> untoward,

> > > that will pick it up.

> > > >

> > > > Be cool

> > > >

> > > > ade

> > > >

> > > > PS:  an attack of gallstones would not

> cause

> > > nausea.  at its very, very worst (when it has

> caused

> > > liver and pancreas problems) and after it has

> persisted for

> > > an hour or so, some people do find themselves

> vomiting, but

> > > please believe me when I say that first of all

> you would be

> > > walking back and forth for the full hour in

> horrendous pain

> > > (sitting down would not be an option).

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > From: inc_100

> > > > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 10:09 PM

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Subject: TRT and Liver and

> Gallbladder

> > > Problems ???

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >   

> > > > Hi All,

> > > >

> > > > Any one noticed any liver issues while on

> TRT ?

> > > Recently I am feeling chronic " nausea " and some

> stiffness

> > > and dull pain under my right shoulder blade. I am

> checking

> > > for symptoms and diagnosis and I read there are

> chances of

> > > liver toxing because of TRT.

> > > > Any idea ?

> > > > I also read quite reverse ....which is with

> low T,

> > > your LDL and Triglicarides go up and all this

> cholestrol

> > > formed in your liver end up as gallstones in the

> gall

> > > bladder which causes pain in the back and also

> nausea.

> > > > Any comments or suggestions or ideas ?

> > > >

> > > > Thanks

> > > > Joe

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

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Posted
Posted

Joe make sure you taking DIM with food when you eat dinner is the best time.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: inc_100 <no_reply >

> Subject: Re: TRT and Liver and Gallbladder Problems ???

>

> Date: Friday, March 12, 2010, 12:07 PM

> Hi Ade,

>

> Thank you for all the info. You are right. I have

> " Hashimotos Disease " and I am on Synthroid 88mcg now. Till

> Dec I was on 75mcg but my lab results showed a bit high TSH

> so my Endo put me on to 88now. I have to go for my next

> bloodwork next week.

>

> Also, I dont take alchohol neither I smoke. I used to take

> a drink (wine or beer) or two in a whole year but not now

> any more. Its been more than an year that I drank alcohol.

>

> I dont have any fever nor any sweating. Yesterday I noticed

> nausea after taking my DIM tablet. So I skipped my lunch

> (just had a fruit) and then had dinner in the evening at 9PM

> and I am just fine. But now I have to check again after I

> finish my lunch if I feel Nausea. I am still checking what

> time of the day that my nausea is worst.

>

> I hope it is just acid reflux but I will get it checked to

> make sure. I will post the results and the diagnosis after I

> come back from the doctor.

>

> Thank you so much and have a gread day.

>

> Joe

>

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> > Hey Joe

> >

> > You are more than welcome mate.

> >

> > One thing I can promise is that all of what you are

> now experiencing will get better.  It does take some

> time, though.

> >

> > If the pain you describe is bad and feels as I

> described in my last email, then gall stones is the best

> explanation and your blood work will show there may be a

> problem.  If this is the case, please do not be

> worried.  The operation is very simple and all you will

> be left with is some bruising where the cuts were made, a

> bit sore on both sides (the best remedy is to buy a few good

> pillows and lay on your back - even if you do not normally

> sleep that way you will soon sink into a beautiful sleep

> with all those pillows) and you tend to feel off food for a

> while.  Give it two weeks and all is better.

> >

> > My honest opinion is that your gallbladder is just

> fine.  How settled are you on your other meds?  My

> reason is this - a friend of mine has something called

> Hashimoto's disease.  Have you heard of this?  If

> not, then it is simply an auto-immune disorder involving the

> thyroid gland.  First of all it throws out enormous

> amounts of thyroid, then it begins to die and hence will

> produce none.  Thus, the treatment is carbimazole to

> lower the thyroid levels initially, then the addition of

> thyroxine (to prevent goitre) and a beta blocker such as

> atenolol to help with symptoms such as fast heart rate

> etc.  Finally, when the thyroid gland dies the

> treatment will be purely thyroxine.  So, on to the

> point - when my friend first started treatment with

> thyroxine, she felt terrible.  Nausea was most

> certainly one side effect.

> >

> > Have you considered pancreatitis?  I do not mean

> to be rude, Joe, but are you or have you been a

> drinker?  This is the classic cause of

> pancreatitis.  Certain drugs bring that condition on

> sporadically.  Have a look at the side effects of your

> current meds.  Do they include pancreatitis?  So,

> how would you know?  Well, that is easy - next time you

> feel this pain come on, I want you to do something for

> me.  Am I right that the pain happens in the area me

> and you might refer to as the " solar plexus " (the soft area

> of the belly, just under the ribs)?  If so, can you

> massage here when you get the pain, please.  Make sure

> your hands are nice and warm, as that will help radiate

> right through to your back.  Now, pancreatitis will

> always get better with this (do you remember the Gillian

> Taylforth scandel - ask me later if not).  If this

> happens, again, please do not worry.  Acute

> pancreatitis is almost always the side effect of a

> tablet.  For me it is codeine.  If I take codeine

> in any form you can be sure I will have an attack. 

> Also, pancreatitis will ALWAYS present with one nasty

> symptom - the fever.  During an attack, do you sweat

> and feel feverish?  I am taking, when you are in pain,

> do you ever touch your forehead and feel all clammy and yet

> cold?  That is classic pancreatitis.  Again, it is

> acute, so not a worry.  If it is chronic then it is

> usually the cause of alcoholism.

> >

> > Is the nausea worse at any time of the day, Joe? 

> Is it really bad in the morning or evening?  Is it

> worse after food?  Better still, do you tend to get it

> after taking any meds? 

> >

> > I now and again get some nausea.  I take Testogel

> (Androgel in the States).  I use two sachets (10g) per

> day and when I was experimenting with this (by that I mean

> trying it in different areas - my arms, my legs etc) I did

> sometimes notice nausea.  The worst for this was the

> thin skin on the inside of my arms.  This caused a high

> amount of nausea and fast heart rate.  I use the gel on

> my legs now (upper thighs) and my bollox (sorry, testicles -

> I am a northern lad and always revert to profanity and

> slang).  This causes no such side effects and I feel

> quite happy.

> >

> > If you get this after food, acid reflux may well be a

> problem for you.  Again, no worries - you may just need

> to add a medication such as Nexium. 

> >

> > Anyway, best of luck Joe -  keep us all

> posted.  You are right, this is a lovely, supportive

> group.  It has helped me no end.

> >

> > Take care

> > Ade

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

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