Myofascial Pain

[Guest guest]

Does anyone here experience this? I have pain in my hips, buttocks, the tops

of my thighs and groin area. I do not think I have bursitis as my Rheumy as

suggested because it is bilateral with too many areas involved. I am planning

on researching this too but would like to hear from others as to thoughts and

treatments.

Thanks,

[Guest guest]

Hi there

Yes, I also have Myofacial Pain syndrome along with the FMS, stenosis of the lower back, two very bad knees and Achilles tendonitis...just to name a few things...It has been very hard coping with the pain..thank the Lord I have a wonderful Doctor that really cares and is very knowedgable...Don't know what I would do without her.

I was diagnosed with FMS around l994 and with the Myofacial Pain to go along with the FMS in 2000..Don't do anything different for the MPS...Lyrica, pain meds along with my other meds for my other problems..I try to eat right, I try to exercise gently, not easy...and I do try to do stretching each day. I probably have one good day a month now..they are getting fewer and fewer..I didn't know that the pain gets worse....if things go on like this I will be in a wheel chair in a couple of months...

Gentle hugs to all

Patti in NJStart the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

[Guest guest]

I have major myofascial pain in my upperbody. I tried Cranial Sacrial however it caused a flare. Everything make me flare. Still unable to find a massage therapist that can keep my flare up from happening. Good luck to you!

-Cat

Re: myofascial pain

Hi - I have not been diagnosed with myofascial pain but I suspect I have that also.

My massage thereapist does some cranial sacrial on my and also lymph drainage really helps a lot.

dixie1340 <missmagnolia2007@ webtv.net> wrote:

I think I spelled it right... Has anyone been told they have fibro , but also myofascial pain in arms, back etc. ? Do you do any things different for that ? Or just the same as for the fibro pain? Has anyone tryed cranial sacrial (SP.) work? I hae a place on my back that stays so sore and achy.

[Guest guest]

hi, my name is LaNay i have had fibro for atleast 8yrs now i am 42. i have ask a DR to dx me with myofacia i do believe i have it. i have constant pain in my whole upper body area with very large knots in my arms,forarms,shoulders,hips,legs and even on my chest of course they always blame it on just the fibro i am at a loss as what to do i didnt realize there were special things to do for myof they just tell me its like the fibro nothing they can do. sure is very frustrating. anyone with any more info please feel free to let me know. thanks a bunch. LaNay"Ms. Cat" <dulcecat@...> wrote: I have major myofascial pain in my upperbody. I tried Cranial Sacrial however it caused a flare. Everything make me flare. Still unable to find a massage therapist that can keep my flare up from happening. Good luck to you! -Cat Re: myofascial pain Hi - I have not been diagnosed with myofascial pain but I suspect

I have that also. My massage thereapist does some cranial sacrial on my and also lymph drainage really helps a lot. dixie1340 <missmagnolia2007@ webtv.net> wrote: I think I spelled it right... Has anyone been told they have fibro , but also myofascial pain in arms, back etc. ? Do you do any things different for that ? Or just the same as for the fibro pain? Has anyone tryed cranial sacrial (SP.) work? I hae a place on my back that stays so sore and achy.

[Guest guest]

> I think I spelled it right... Has anyone been told they have

fibro , but also myofascial pain in arms, back etc. ? Do you do any

things different for that ? Or just the same as for the fibro pain?

Has anyone tryed cranial sacrial (SP.) work? I hae a place on my back

that stays so sore and achy.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

All I can say is welcome to the club (LOL). I take nothing for my pain during the day. I take supplements in the a.m. and sleep/antidepressants at night for sleep. I don't think there is a whole lot one can do. You are on some serious pain meds. I was taking Gabapentin for about a year or so for the rls but it doesn't work very good any more. The pain isn't as bad as it used to me but still keeps me up at night sometimes. The shoulder,neck, back pain, etc. I do nothing for but go to the chiropractor which helps some. God gives me the strength to do what I need to do so I have Him to thank for all that I can do which compared to some is a whole lot. God bless. Shirley Godbout

Re: myofascial pain

I have all of this

fibromyalgia

myalgia

myfascial

tmj

ibs

rls

cfs

osteoarthritis

migraines

anxiety

depression

multiple sensitive disorder

chronic yeast

and the most recent they found a black dead spot in the basal ganglia on the left side of the brain.

all of the drugs they have me on are

imitrex injections

lyrica

diclofenac

vicodin

darvocet

effexor xr

flexeril

zanaflex

estradiol

diflucan

vitamin d and b12

my myofascial is in my lower back and shoulder all of the time and it is unbearable even with all of the meds

dixie1340 <missmagnolia2007@ webtv.net> wrote:

I think I spelled it right... Has anyone been told they have fibro , but also myofascial pain in arms, back etc. ? Do you do any things different for that ? Or just the same as for the fibro pain? Has anyone tryed cranial sacrial (SP.) work? I hae a place on my back that stays so sore and achy.

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

I have pain too, along with arthritis in both knees, hands, fingers, feet, and lower back. My neck and back, hips, and shoulders hurt on a daily basis. Most days after being on my feet at work my heels just scream at me. I am on Lyrica, Effexor, Seroquil, Synthroid (did everyone know that most people with Fibro have Thyroid issues?) I also have high BP so I take Accupril for that. Anyway, my husband is a Physical Therapy Assistant, and let me tell you what helps tremendously. There are a few things......1st is a trigger point massage, hurts like hell, but afterwards your body feels amazing. 2nd heat.....moist heat only. Homemade rice bags are great, and so are the Chammomile and Lavender wraps from Kohls. 3rd a Paraffin wrap on your hands and feet. You can find the Paraffin machines at Wal-Mart, Kohls, Macys, and Meijer stores. That does wonders for hands that hurt and feet that won't stop

throbbing. 4th water aerobics or just walking around in a heated swimming pool and doing exercises. For the person on all the meds......wow. You can become very addicted to Vicodin, Percocet, etc.. Not to mention with that you build up a tolerance. It in no way helps Fibromyalgia pain, only normal muscle pain after injury/surgery. Why are you on Imitrex? For the headaches? Does it help? Honestly most people with Fibro that have the extreme headaches is because of the knotted muscles in our necks and upper backs and shoulders. Try a good massage therapist. They would be a heck of a lot less expensive than all the medication your on. Chiropractors only help if they give you the exercises to strengthen the weak areas they keep working on. Yes, pain is a daily part of all of our lives. Some days are worse than others. I think a lot of times

we expect to have a pain free existance, and well, that isn't going to happen. I think accepting that has helped me out tremendously because just accepting that has focused me to living with it and working with it. There are also doctors that are pain specialists that some go to. I personally haven't been to one, but there is that help out there too. Hang in there!!!!!!!!!!! We know how you feel!!!! Nadine Shirley Godbout <prywarr@...> wrote:

All I can say is welcome to the club (LOL). I take nothing for my pain during the day. I take supplements in the a.m. and sleep/antidepressants at night for sleep. I don't think there is a whole lot one can do. You are on some serious pain meds. I was taking Gabapentin for about a year or so for the rls but it doesn't work very good any more. The pain isn't as bad as it used to me but still keeps me up at night sometimes. The shoulder,neck, back pain, etc. I do nothing for but go to the chiropractor which helps some. God gives me the strength to do what I need to do so I have Him to thank for all that I can do which compared to some is a whole lot. God bless. Shirley Godbout Re: myofascial pain I have all of this fibromyalgia myalgia myfascial tmj ibs rls cfs osteoarthritis migraines anxiety depression multiple sensitive disorder chronic yeast and the most recent they found a black dead spot in the basal ganglia on the left side of the brain. all of the drugs they have me on

are imitrex injections lyrica diclofenac vicodin darvocet effexor xr flexeril zanaflex estradiol diflucan vitamin d and b12 my myofascial is in my lower back and shoulder all of the time and it is unbearable even with all of the meds dixie1340 <missmagnolia2007@ webtv.net> wrote: I think I spelled it right... Has anyone been told they have fibro , but also myofascial pain in arms, back etc. ? Do you do any things different for that ? Or just the same as for the fibro pain? Has anyone tryed cranial sacrial (SP.) work? I hae a place on my back that stays so sore and achy.

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[Guest guest]

I do understand the difference. However, how many people do not "up" their medication, or ask their doctor to "up" it after being on it for some time? You're forgetting that many people have a gene in their body that makes them highly suseptibile to becoming addicted to any foreign substance: nicotine, caffeine, narcotics, etc.. I was just stating that narcotics do not help Fibro pain. You're obviously in pain for different reasons. Plus, check out/look up placebo tests on patients on narcotics. I studied about it in Abnormal Psychology and it is quite interesting. I'm not saying that's you, but that's where my mind set comes from. Highly addictive personalities only have to try something once or twice to be addicted. You forgot to take that into consideration as well. Trust me, these individuals do not intend on becoming "high." Something to think about. Nadine Whitney <infinite242@...> wrote: Nadine,I'm sure we all appreciate your concern about the pain meds but please do not confuse Addiction with tolerance and dependence. It is very hard to become addicted to a drug, dependent on it yes - your body does this with any drug over time and sometimes in a short amount of time depending on the type of med and your reaction or sensitivity to it. Addiction is what happens when someone does not follow their doctor's orders on how to take the medication

AND/OR when someone takes a medication JUST TO GET HIGH!!! So please do not use the term addiction here. There are many people in severe chronic pain who cannot live without the pain meds, I myself am included! If it wasn't for the MS Contin and Percocet and sometimes more, I would not be alive. My pain is that bad! Whitney On Jan 8, 2008 2:00 PM, nadine redman <nlraccount > wrote: I have pain too, along with arthritis in both knees, hands, fingers, feet, and lower back. My neck and back, hips, and shoulders hurt on a daily basis. Most days after being on my feet at work my heels just scream at me. I am on Lyrica, Effexor, Seroquil, Synthroid (did everyone know that

most people with Fibro have Thyroid issues?) I also have high BP so I take Accupril for that. Anyway, my husband is a Physical Therapy Assistant, and let me tell you what helps tremendously. There are a few things......1st is a trigger point massage, hurts like hell, but afterwards your body feels amazing. 2nd heat.....moist heat only. Homemade rice bags are great, and so are the Chammomile and Lavender wraps from Kohls. 3rd a Paraffin wrap on your hands and feet. You can find the Paraffin machines at Wal-Mart, Kohls, Macys, and Meijer stores. That does wonders for hands that hurt and feet that won't stop throbbing. 4th water aerobics or just walking around in a heated swimming pool and doing exercises. For the person on all the meds......wow. You can become very addicted to Vicodin, Percocet, etc.. Not to mention with that you build up a tolerance. It in no way

helps Fibromyalgia pain, only normal muscle pain after injury/surgery. Why are you on Imitrex? For the headaches? Does it help? Honestly most people with Fibro that have the extreme headaches is because of the knotted muscles in our necks and upper backs and shoulders. Try a good massage therapist. They would be a heck of a lot less expensive than all the medication your on. Chiropractors only help if they give you the exercises to strengthen the weak areas they keep working on. Yes, pain is a daily part of all of our lives. Some days are worse than others. I think a lot of times we expect to have a pain free existance, and well, that isn't going to happen. I think accepting that has helped me out tremendously because just accepting that has focused me to living with it and working with it. There are also doctors that are pain specialists that some go to. I personally

haven't been to one, but there is that help out there too. Hang in there!!!!!!!!!!! We know how you feel!!!! Nadine Shirley Godbout <prywarr > wrote: All I can say is welcome to the club (LOL). I take nothing for my pain during the day. I take supplements in the a.m. and sleep/antidepressants at night for sleep. I don't think there is a whole lot one can do. You are on some serious pain meds. I was taking Gabapentin for about a year or so for the rls but it doesn't work very good any more. The pain isn't as bad as it

used to me but still keeps me up at night sometimes. The shoulder,neck, back pain, etc. I do nothing for but go to the chiropractor which helps some. God gives me the strength to do what I need to do so I have Him to thank for all that I can do which compared to some is a whole lot. God bless. Shirley Godbout Re: myofascial pain I have

all of this fibromyalgia myalgia myfascial tmj ibs rls cfs osteoarthritis migraines anxiety depression multiple sensitive disorder chronic yeast and the most recent they found a black dead spot in the basal ganglia on the left side of the brain. all of the drugs they have me on are imitrex injections lyrica diclofenac vicodin darvocet effexor xr flexeril zanaflex estradiol diflucan vitamin d and b12 my myofascial is in my lower back and shoulder all of the time and it is unbearable even with all of the meds dixie1340 <missmagnolia2007@ webtv.net> wrote: I think I spelled it right... Has anyone been told they have fibro , but also myofascial pain in arms, back etc. ? Do you do any things different for that ? Or just the same as for the fibro pain? Has anyone tryed cranial sacrial (SP.) work? I hae a place on my back that stays so sore and achy. Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search.-- Eat, sleep, dream and be the music!Life is short, live each day to its' fullest!Cave softly and leave no trace.Find a cure for chronic pain!Ask about The Purrfect Petsitter and Infinite Creations!

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

Nadine, I sympathize with you about your meds. I too often (at least twice a year) have to up my meds because they quit being as effective as before. I was taking one Gabapentin for rls and one Temazepam for sleep. Now I have to take 2 of each and still it isn't always enough. I went to see a new doctor today so you guys keep my in your prayers. I left there encouraged instead of discouraged. I have to take some tests (at home) that I've never taken before and he gave me a new supplement and an energy powder to drink in the a.m. So I will try these new things and see what happens. Even though I take a calcium/magnesium supplement he gave me something with more magnesium in it. It seems (I have heard before) that fibromites are very low in magnesium. Also for the first time in many years he mentioned that my adrenal glands were shot. At least he is

recognizing things that no one noticed before. By the way, he has done some with with Dr. Teitelbaum who was the one who worked with me when I was first diagnosed. Dr. Teitelbaum HAD fibro years ago so that is what started him doing research on it and working with patients who suffer from it. I will keep you ladies posted as to my progress. Shirley Godbout

Re: myofascial pain

I have all of this

fibromyalgia

myalgia

myfascial

tmj

ibs

rls

cfs

osteoarthritis

migraines

anxiety

depression

multiple sensitive disorder

chronic yeast

and the most recent they found a black dead spot in the basal ganglia on the left side of the brain.

all of the drugs they have me on are

imitrex injections

lyrica

diclofenac

vicodin

darvocet

effexor xr

flexeril

zanaflex

estradiol

diflucan

vitamin d and b12

my myofascial is in my lower back and shoulder all of the time and it is unbearable even with all of the meds

dixie1340 <missmagnolia2007@ webtv.net> wrote:

I think I spelled it right... Has anyone been told they have fibro , but also myofascial pain in arms, back etc. ? Do you do any things different for that ? Or just the same as for the fibro pain? Has anyone tryed cranial sacrial (SP.) work? I hae a place on my back that stays so sore and achy.

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search.-- Eat, sleep, dream and be the music!Life is short, live each day to its' fullest!Cave softly and leave no trace.Find a cure for chronic pain!Ask about The Purrfect Petsitter and Infinite Creations!

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

[Guest guest]

What do you mean that "narcotics do not help fibro pain"? It sure helps mine. Granted, it comes back after 4-6 hours, but for those hours it takes it away or takes the edge off. I keep "hearing" you say "narcotics do not help fibro pain" but unless you mean that it does not "cure" it, heck, we all know that. Please explain what you mean!

Hugs, Michele - Nana & DayCare provider toTwins is and , 18 mos., Zachary, 3 yrs.,Ethan, 7 yrs., and Tony, 11 yrs.

----- Original Message -----

From: nadine redman Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 4:46 PM

I do understand the difference. However, how many people do not "up" their medication, or ask their doctor to "up" it after being on it for some time? You're forgetting that many people have a gene in their body that makes them highly suseptibile to becoming addicted to any foreign substance: nicotine, caffeine, narcotics, etc.. I was just stating that narcotics do not help Fibro pain. You're obviously in pain for different reasons. Plus, check out/look up placebo tests on patients on narcotics. I studied about it in Abnormal Psychology and it is quite interesting. I'm not saying that's you, but that's where my mind set comes from. Highly addictive personalities only have to try something once or twice to be addicted. You forgot to take that into consideration as well. Trust me, these individuals do not intend on becoming "high." Something to think about.

Nadine

[Guest guest]

[Pharmacological treatment of fibromyalgia.] [Article in Italian] Cazzola M, Sarzi-Puttini P, Buskila D, Atzeni F. U.O. Reumatologia, Azienda Ospedaliera "L. Sacco", 20157 Milano, Italia. atzenifabiola@.... Fibromyalgia syndrome (FM) is a condition of chronic and diffuse muscular pain affecting particularly middle aged women. The aetiology of FM is not completely understood and it is currently considered a disorder of pain regulation. The most efficacious compounds include the tricyclic drugs and mixed reuptake inhibitors. Recent works suggest that the anticonvulsant medications pregabalin and gabapentin are also effective. Moreover, two serotonin and norepinephrine-reuptake inhibitors-duloxetine and milnacipran show encouraging results in treating FM symptoms. The results of clinical trials of anti-inflammatory

medications have been generally disappointing, but three RCTs have found that tramadol (with or without acetaminophen) is effective in FM. PMID: 18157284 [PubMed - in process] From the DEA webpage: Narcotics are used therapeutically to treat pain, suppress cough, alleviate diarrhea, and induce anesthesia. Narcotics are administered in a variety of ways. Some are taken orally, transdermally (skin patches), or injected. They are also available in suppositories. As drugs of abuse, they are often smoked, sniffed, or injected. Drug effects depend heavily on the dose, route of administration, and previous exposure to the drug. Aside from their medical use, narcotics produce a general sense of well-being by reducing tension, anxiety, and aggression. These effects are helpful in a therapeutic setting but con tribute to their abuse. Narcotic use is associated with a variety of unwanted effects including drowsiness, inability to concentrate, apathy, lessened physical activity, constriction of the pupils, dilation of the subcutaneous blood vessels causing flushing of the face and neck, constipation, nausea and vomiting, and most significantly, respiratory depression. As the dose is increased, the subjective, analgesic (pain relief), and toxic effect become more pronounced. Except in cases of acute intoxication, there is no loss of motor coordination or slurred speech as occurs with many depressants. With repeated use of narcotics, tolerance and dependence develop. The development of tolerance is characterized by a shortened duration and a decreased intensity of analgesia, euphoria, and sedation, which creates the need to consume progressively larger doses to attain the desired effect. Tolerance does not develop uniformly for all actions of

these drugs, giving rise to a number of toxic effects. Although tolerant users can consume doses far in excess of the dose they took, physical dependence refers to an alteration of normal body functions that necessitates the continued presence of a drug in order to prevent a withdrawal or abstinence syndrome. The intensity and character of the physical symptoms experienced during withdrawal are directly related to the particular drug of abuse, the total daily dose, the interval between doses, the duration of use, and the health and personality of the user. In general, shorter acting narcotics tend to produce shorter; more intense withdrawal symptoms, while longer acting narcotics produce a withdrawal syndrome that is protracted but tends to be less severe. Although unpleasant, withdrawal from narcotics is rarely life threatening. My explanation: You can take a Tylenol for a headache and it comes back in 4-6 hours too. So did

the headache really go away, or did the drug "mask" the pain? Why not try to treat the Fibro to take the pain away instead of masking it with something that may alter your life in more ways than one? I'm not saying I have never taken Percocet or anything, but only after surgery for a few days, then switched to Tylenol, then nothing. I have seen for myself the destruction of good people in chronic pain by the use of narcotics. It doesn't go away. Michele Townsend <mtownsend29@...> wrote: What do you mean that "narcotics do not help fibro pain"? It sure helps mine. Granted, it comes back after 4-6 hours, but for those hours it takes it away or takes the edge off. I keep "hearing" you say "narcotics do not help fibro pain" but unless you mean that it does not "cure" it, heck, we all know that. Please explain what you mean! Hugs, Michele - Nana & DayCare provider toTwins is and , 18 mos., Zachary, 3 yrs.,Ethan, 7 yrs., and Tony, 11 yrs. ----- Original Message ----- From: nadine redman Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 4:46 PM I do understand the difference. However, how many people do not "up" their medication, or ask their doctor to "up" it after being on it for some time? You're forgetting that many people have a gene in their body that makes them highly suseptibile to becoming addicted to any foreign substance: nicotine, caffeine, narcotics, etc.. I was just stating that narcotics do not help Fibro pain. You're obviously in pain for different reasons. Plus, check out/look up placebo tests on patients on narcotics. I studied about it in Abnormal Psychology and it is quite interesting. I'm not saying that's you, but that's where my mind set comes from. Highly addictive personalities only have to try something once or twice to be addicted. You forgot to take that into consideration as well. Trust me, these individuals do not intend on

becoming "high." Something to think about. Nadine

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[Guest guest]

I think most of us are trying or have tried many different types of treatments. I know for me, a combination of the following work the best: 1. the medication combo that I'm currently on, as they allow me to get out of bed most days and take the edge off enough to allow me to live my life to the fullest that it can possibly be for me at the moment 2. this includes allowing me to exercise with my own kinds of exercise - swimming, horse back riding and walking with the dogs that I take care of. 3. I have tried chiropractics and just need someone new, I take lots of supplements that work well for me and contribute to taking the edge off the pain as well as eating a really healthy, mostly organic diet + enjoying life and maintaining a really healthy additude about life and what it has handed me and always trying to think positive. I can also teach others how to do trigger pt release on me but for that I need a new relationship or a friend willing to put the time into doing that for me. I do trigger releases on those parts that I can actually reach. I also use our hot tub all the time, as well as heat packs and occasionally ice. For me, my pain doesn't originate from the Fibro - mine was caused by a series of accidents that went untreated and are still in some ways untreated. My myofascial pain must be treated before I can go off any medications. That will be my goal when I move up to Portland, where treatment will be much more affordable, for one thing. I also know that many of us that have one illness, also have others. So don't discount the treatment that someone is on because it works for them and dont' assume that the Percocet they are on is for the Fibro only. My pain meds are to treat the inflammed muscle tissue that surrounds my body, for the over 500 trigger points that are in my body, left untreated for such a long time, that they hurt to be touched, even if it's just a t-shirt lightly hitting my back where over 50+ reside. Not to mention the over 100 in my shoulders and neck area, the main source of my pain. Everyone has to do what works the best for them and many people are newely diagnosed and wanting to know what works for others and that is okay! It's ok if somoene needs the pain meds to get out of bed everyday. Please just try to be more supportive, I think that is all that I'm feeling as well as many others who have spoken up. And feeding people articles is not the way to get around answering a question. Articles can be biased as well, depending where they come from. I think that if you're going to make a statement, you need to be able to back it up so just be careful what you say from now on and realize that it may negatively affect many people on this list. WhitneyOn Jan 11, 2008 9:52 PM, nadine redman <nlraccount@...> wrote:

[Pharmacological treatment of fibromyalgia.] [Article in Italian]

Cazzola M,

Sarzi-Puttini P,

Buskila D,

Atzeni F. U.O. Reumatologia, Azienda Ospedaliera " L. Sacco " , 20157 Milano, Italia. atzenifabiola@.... Fibromyalgia syndrome (FM) is a condition of chronic and diffuse muscular pain affecting particularly middle aged women. The aetiology of FM is not completely understood and it is currently considered a disorder of pain regulation. The most efficacious compounds include the tricyclic drugs and mixed reuptake inhibitors. Recent works suggest that the anticonvulsant medications pregabalin and gabapentin are also effective. Moreover, two serotonin and norepinephrine-reuptake inhibitors-duloxetine and milnacipran show encouraging results in treating FM symptoms. The results of clinical trials of anti-inflammatory

medications have been generally disappointing, but three RCTs have found that tramadol (with or without acetaminophen) is effective in FM. PMID: 18157284 [PubMed - in process] From the DEA webpage:

Narcotics are used therapeutically to treat pain, suppress cough, alleviate diarrhea, and induce anesthesia. Narcotics are administered in a variety of ways. Some are taken orally, transdermally (skin patches), or injected. They are also available in suppositories. As drugs of abuse, they are often smoked, sniffed, or injected. Drug effects depend heavily on the dose, route of administration, and previous exposure to the drug. Aside from their medical use, narcotics produce a general sense of well-being by reducing tension, anxiety, and aggression. These effects are helpful in a therapeutic setting but con tribute to their abuse. Narcotic use is associated with a variety of unwanted effects including drowsiness, inability to concentrate, apathy, lessened physical activity, constriction of the pupils, dilation of the subcutaneous blood vessels causing flushing of the face and neck, constipation, nausea and vomiting, and most significantly, respiratory depression. As the dose is increased, the subjective, analgesic (pain relief), and toxic effect become more pronounced. Except in cases of acute intoxication, there is no loss of motor coordination or slurred speech as occurs with many depressants.

With repeated use of narcotics, tolerance and dependence develop. The development of tolerance is characterized by a shortened duration and a decreased intensity of analgesia, euphoria, and sedation, which creates the need to consume progressively larger doses to attain the desired effect. Tolerance does not develop uniformly for all actions of

these drugs, giving rise to a number of toxic effects. Although tolerant users can consume doses far in excess of the dose they took, physical dependence refers to an alteration of normal body functions that necessitates the continued presence of a drug in order to prevent a withdrawal or abstinence syndrome. The intensity and character of the physical symptoms experienced during withdrawal are directly related to the particular drug of abuse, the total daily dose, the interval between doses, the duration of use, and the health and personality of the user. In general, shorter acting narcotics tend to produce shorter; more intense withdrawal symptoms, while longer acting narcotics produce a withdrawal syndrome that is protracted but tends to be less severe. Although unpleasant, withdrawal from narcotics is rarely life threatening.

My explanation: You can take a Tylenol for a headache and it comes back in 4-6 hours too. So did

the headache really go away, or did the drug " mask " the pain? Why not try to treat the Fibro to take the pain away instead of masking it with something that may alter your life in more ways than one? I'm not saying I have never taken Percocet or anything, but only after surgery for a few days, then switched to Tylenol, then nothing. I have seen for myself the destruction of good people in chronic pain by the use of narcotics. It doesn't go away. Michele Townsend <mtownsend29@...> wrote:

What do you mean that " narcotics do not help fibro pain " ? It sure helps mine. Granted, it comes back after 4-6 hours, but for those hours it takes it away or takes the edge off. I keep " hearing " you say " narcotics do not help fibro pain " but unless you mean that it does not " cure " it, heck, we all know that. Please explain what you mean!

Hugs, Michele - Nana & DayCare provider toTwins is and , 18 mos., Zachary, 3 yrs.,Ethan, 7 yrs., and Tony, 11 yrs.

----- Original Message -----

From: nadine redman Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 4:46 PM

I do understand the difference. However, how many people do not " up " their medication, or ask their doctor to " up " it after being on it for some time? You're forgetting that many people have a gene in their body that makes them highly suseptibile to becoming addicted to any foreign substance: nicotine, caffeine, narcotics, etc.. I was just stating that narcotics do not help Fibro pain. You're obviously in pain for different reasons. Plus, check out/look up placebo tests on patients on narcotics. I studied about it in Abnormal Psychology and it is quite interesting. I'm not saying that's you, but that's where my mind set comes from. Highly addictive personalities only have to try something once or twice to be addicted. You forgot to take that into consideration as well. Trust me, these individuals do not intend on

becoming " high. " Something to think about. Nadine Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search.

-- Eat, sleep, dream and be the music!Life is short, live each day to its' fullest!Cave softly and leave no trace.Find a cure for chronic pain!Ask about The Purrfect Petsitter and Infinite Creations!

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Whitney, Supportive? I am a very caring and supportive person who just has an issue with Narcotics for treatment. Is that so bad? I would have left it alone by now, but a few really want the embers to burn. Again with supportive....who has been supportive to me? I am new to the group, have battled with Fibro for a long time but was just recently diagnosed with that and RA. Where's my support? Gee, because I have medical training and have family members trained in different facets of the medical profession, am I above support or do I not fit in because I stand firm in a belief I have? I think you would disapprove of any article I post. I did back up my statement with the Pharmacological page and the DEA page. I'd rather send an article written by a professional as opposed to empty words. Be careful of what I say? Have you said that to

others that post their opinion on things? Or on things their doctor told them and they shared? Again, support?????? As far as negative affects....again I'm a newbee, so obviously it doesn't matter if I get affected negatively does it? Nadine Whitney <infinite242@...> wrote: I think most of us are trying or have tried many different types of treatments. I know for me, a combination of the following work the best: 1.

the medication combo that I'm currently on, as they allow me to get out of bed most days and take the edge off enough to allow me to live my life to the fullest that it can possibly be for me at the moment 2. this includes allowing me to exercise with my own kinds of exercise - swimming, horse back riding and walking with the dogs that I take care of. 3. I have tried chiropractics and just need someone new, I take lots of supplements that work well for me and contribute to taking the edge off the pain as well as eating a really healthy, mostly organic diet + enjoying life and maintaining a really healthy additude about life and what it has handed me and always trying to think positive. I can also teach others how to do trigger pt release on me but for that I need a new relationship or a friend willing to put the time into doing that for me. I do trigger releases on those parts that I can actually reach. I also use our hot tub all the time, as well as heat packs and

occasionally ice. For me, my pain doesn't originate from the Fibro - mine was caused by a series of accidents that went untreated and are still in some ways untreated. My myofascial pain must be treated before I can go off any medications. That will be my goal when I move up to Portland, where treatment will be much more affordable, for one thing. I also know that many of us that have one illness, also have others. So don't discount the treatment that someone is on because it works for them and dont' assume that the Percocet they are on is for the Fibro only. My pain meds are to treat the inflammed muscle tissue that surrounds my body, for the over 500 trigger points that are in my body, left untreated for such a long time, that they hurt to be touched, even if it's just a t-shirt lightly hitting my back where over 50+ reside. Not to mention the over 100 in my shoulders and neck area, the main source of my pain. Everyone has to do what works the best for them and

many people are newely diagnosed and wanting to know what works for others and that is okay! It's ok if somoene needs the pain meds to get out of bed everyday. Please just try to be more supportive, I think that is all that I'm feeling as well as many others who have spoken up. And feeding people articles is not the way to get around answering a question. Articles can be biased as well, depending where they come from. I think that if you're going to make a statement, you need to be able to back it up so just be careful what you say from now on and realize that it may negatively affect many people on this list. Whitney On Jan 11, 2008 9:52 PM, nadine redman <nlraccount > wrote: [Pharmacological treatment

of fibromyalgia.] [Article in Italian] Cazzola M, Sarzi-Puttini P, Buskila D, Atzeni F. U.O. Reumatologia, Azienda Ospedaliera "L. Sacco", 20157 Milano, Italia. atzenifabiolahotmail. Fibromyalgia syndrome (FM) is a condition of chronic and diffuse muscular pain affecting particularly middle aged women. The aetiology of FM is not completely understood and it is currently considered a disorder of pain regulation. The most efficacious compounds include the tricyclic drugs and mixed reuptake inhibitors. Recent works suggest that the anticonvulsant medications pregabalin and gabapentin are also effective. Moreover, two serotonin and norepinephrine-reuptake inhibitors-duloxetine and milnacipran show encouraging results in treating FM symptoms. The results of clinical trials of anti-inflammatory medications have been generally disappointing, but three RCTs have found that tramadol (with or without acetaminophen) is effective in

FM. PMID: 18157284 [PubMed - in process] From the DEA webpage: Narcotics are used therapeutically to treat pain, suppress cough, alleviate diarrhea, and induce anesthesia. Narcotics are administered in a variety of ways. Some are taken orally, transdermally (skin patches), or injected. They are also available in suppositories. As drugs of abuse, they are often smoked, sniffed, or injected. Drug effects depend heavily on the dose, route of administration, and previous exposure to the drug. Aside from their medical use, narcotics produce a general sense of well-being by reducing tension, anxiety, and aggression. These effects are helpful in a therapeutic setting but con tribute to their abuse. Narcotic use is associated with a variety of unwanted effects including drowsiness, inability to concentrate,

apathy, lessened physical activity, constriction of the pupils, dilation of the subcutaneous blood vessels causing flushing of the face and neck, constipation, nausea and vomiting, and most significantly, respiratory depression. As the dose is increased, the subjective, analgesic (pain relief), and toxic effect become more pronounced. Except in cases of acute intoxication, there is no loss of motor coordination or slurred speech as occurs with many depressants. With repeated use of narcotics, tolerance and dependence develop. The development of tolerance is characterized by a shortened duration and a decreased intensity of analgesia, euphoria, and sedation, which creates the need to consume progressively larger doses to attain the desired effect. Tolerance does not develop uniformly for all actions of these drugs, giving rise to a number of toxic effects. Although tolerant users can consume doses far in excess of the dose they took, physical dependence

refers to an alteration of normal body functions that necessitates the continued presence of a drug in order to prevent a withdrawal or abstinence syndrome. The intensity and character of the physical symptoms experienced during withdrawal are directly related to the particular drug of abuse, the total daily dose, the interval between doses, the duration of use, and the health and personality of the user. In general, shorter acting narcotics tend to produce shorter; more intense withdrawal symptoms, while longer acting narcotics produce a withdrawal syndrome that is protracted but tends to be less severe. Although unpleasant, withdrawal from narcotics is rarely life threatening. My explanation: You can take a Tylenol for a headache and it comes back in 4-6 hours too. So did the headache really go away, or did the drug "mask" the pain? Why not try to treat the Fibro to take the pain away instead of masking it with

something that may alter your life in more ways than one? I'm not saying I have never taken Percocet or anything, but only after surgery for a few days, then switched to Tylenol, then nothing. I have seen for myself the destruction of good people in chronic pain by the use of narcotics. It doesn't go away. Michele Townsend <mtownsend29comcast (DOT) net> wrote: What do you mean that "narcotics do not help fibro pain"? It sure helps mine. Granted, it comes back after 4-6 hours, but for those hours it takes it away or takes the edge off. I keep "hearing" you say "narcotics do not help fibro pain" but unless you mean that it does not "cure" it, heck, we all know

that. Please explain what you mean! Hugs, Michele - Nana & DayCare provider toTwins is and , 18 mos., Zachary, 3 yrs.,Ethan, 7 yrs., and Tony, 11 yrs. ----- Original Message ----- From: nadine redman Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 4:46 PM I do understand the difference. However, how many people do not "up" their medication, or ask their doctor to "up" it after being on it for some time? You're forgetting that many people have a gene in their body that makes them highly suseptibile to becoming addicted to any foreign substance: nicotine, caffeine, narcotics, etc.. I was just stating that narcotics do not help Fibro pain. You're obviously in pain for different reasons. Plus, check out/look up placebo tests on patients on narcotics. I studied about it in Abnormal Psychology and it is quite interesting. I'm not saying that's you, but that's where my mind set comes from. Highly addictive personalities only have to try something once or twice to be addicted. You forgot to take that into consideration as well. Trust me, these individuals do not intend

on becoming "high." Something to think about. Nadine Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. -- Eat, sleep, dream and be the music!Life is short, live each day to its' fullest!Cave softly and leave no trace.Find a cure for chronic pain!Ask about The Purrfect Petsitter and Infinite Creations!

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