Re: Older kids still making gains / chelation responder (ANDY)

[Guest guest]

I would suggest taking him to a vision therapy optometrist (they generally know

a lot of neurology and deal with a lot of kids like this) for opinions and

discussion. Insurance should at least cover the eye exam and discussion part.

www.oep.org www.covd.org www.optometrist.com

You might also ensure you are giving him adequate vitamin A, 50,000 to 100,000

IU per day.

You might also ensure that he is getting some adrenal glandular supplement,

licorice supplement or access to licorice candy that has real ground up licorice

in it (not just liquid extract), and lots of protein.

You might also ask his pediatrician about the Rx drug clonidine (Catapres).

I would certainly suggest continuing to chelate and starting a video diary to

make a decision in 6-12 months how it is going.

Andy

http://www.noamalgam.com/index.html

Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment

http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html

Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities

http://www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html

Nourishing Hope for Autism: Nutrition Intervention for Healing Our Children

http://www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html

Biological Treatments for Autism and PDD

>

> There is no doubt my son responded favorably to chelation, but after that

stall

> (also considering my son is 11) it's so hard to tell. Btw during that time we

> took a chelation break and introduced a few antiviral protocols to see if he

was

> a responder. Mostly rule out any viral component that may been underneath. He

> did not respond to antiviral positive or negatively during the trials.

>

> I wrote Andy way back when around the #90-100 chelation round mark asking

about

> the stall in how long it lasts. . He said something to the effect. That it's

> hard to tell, what you may have seen in 1-2 rounds early may take 5-10, to see

> things. Totally understood and went back to business as usual. I know gains

may

> be subtle and we have to look at the whole picture. But in all honesty that

was

> over #50 rounds ago Not sure we are still responding today??? . There is no

> doubt my kid is/ was a chelation responder from the beginning, but im not sure

> today we are still making gains.

>

>

> Q. Describe in detail what his residual symptoms are, what symptoms improved

with chelation, and whether what he has includes symptoms that did not change

with chelation.

>

> O boy not easy to do this way but I try. When we first started EVEYTHING

improved. More On task with every round he did. Better on Round then off etc.

In the beginning picture perfect as understood with proper chelation That is

when he came out of his world he was trapped in. Today .He is bright smart,

funny boy. Great kid but He would still be considered autistic. No more stimms

still scripts a little but mostly for fun and entertainment. Prompting is needed

allot to get him moving. Mostly doing what he wants to do even when he knows the

consequences. He is a Pia and decides to get in trouble doing something he may

have read or comes up with curious Gorge adventures often.

>

> Again we hit all our major miles stones when we first started to chelate,

Speech potty training, imaginary play, reasoning etc then not much of any

besides mostly learned academics/ skills (bike ride / tie shoes) Then around 8-

years old he started to reference us naturally.( it was at that time I knew he

knew right from wrong) and was getting it . If you look back he has maid subtle

gains and come a long way. He knows how to talk share and express his feelings.

However if he has a choice he would stay in funland and video land instead of

join us in the real world.

>

>

> Q Also discuss what diet, sups, etc. he's on, his school and care situation,

etc.

>

> Diet is pretty much GFCF die free /preservative free diet. Lots of good whole

foods, mostly natural all home cooked. However not much veggies other then in

soups and blended dishes.

> A multi vit regimen, including complex minerals, PS PC All your anti oxidants

Vit D Pro Omega, pro B's

> School is a pretty solid Autistic Vb program; home is the best we can do to

support him, lots of love affection, praise. Mostly he has only family and

sibling relationships. Other than that he enjoys, music books and videos.

>

> Q also if any doctors have said anything about what he has other than

" autism, " tell us what the diagnoses were.

>

> No other labels or diagnosis was given Originally met the criteria to Autism,

including hypersensitivity, stimms scripts OCD's non-verbal.

> Today he is chatterbox, troublemaker, and loves life but still stuck in the

wold of Autism.

>

> Q Did you try cranial sacral therapy, vision therapy, etc.

>

> No Docs nor therapies other than school, OT stuff. Did chiropractic

adjustments for some time w/ no help either way .

>

> Andy we have been with your program for well over 5 years with no outside help

.. We are trying to do just that

> I would just like to hear a further comment based on our past results

progress, and what we have done ,what else we should be doing ? thanks you for

writing , please if you have a moment could you make a further comment other

than possible ,Probably, be patient just keep going . We have been hopeful and

holding on this a long time, but right now not sure what else we should be doing

?. What should we be looking for as we continue to chelate with no noticeable

changes? Any comments to figure out what else may be helpful

>

> thank you so much

> God bless

> Kenny V

>

[Guest guest]

> We chelated up to #160 rounds he is now 11 years old, and will be 12 in March.

My

> son has made huge gains (too many to list). However many of them were within

> the first 40-70- rounds. Then we hit a long lasting stall from rounds #70-100,

> but of course keep plugging away. Thereafter is been so hard to tell whats-

> what??

>

> Q. Have you kept a video or written diary for comparison?

>

> Yes we have way back when… he was making progress w/ every round- every 3-5

rounds pretty much till we hit the stall. However this was when he first

started speaking having imaginary play etc… all the big milestones

It is not clear to me if you are saying you are still keeping a video diary or

not.

You need to keep one CURRENTLY.

Compare month by month progress over a period of at least 6 months at this

point. If you do not have a CURRENT video diary, start making one (15-30

minutes of video every month or so) and go over it in 6 months time.

>

> In , " ken_vaccaro " <KEN@> wrote:

> We started to chelate consistently when my child was 6.5 using

> Andy's protocol ALA/DMSA. Prior we did 20 rounds and stopped (LONG STORY)

>

> Q . of my protocol or some other protocol?

>

> Q Have you used other forms of chelation?

>

> Oral ONLY - Originally we did DMSA 3 times daily for (20 rounds) when son

was 4.5-5 yo stopped for well over a year. Then restarted consistently chelating

back in 2005 using Andy's protocol ONLY. DMSA/ ALA

I've really agonized over what to say about this.

Probably you all think I LOOOOOVE torturing people from how confrontational I am

about using the right protocol, and all the horrible stuff I say about doctors

who usually don't deserve it.

However this is not so. I really do not like being confrontational or being a

jerk. I only do it because it is SO TERRIBLY IMPORTANT you chelate properly.

The consequence of doing it wrong is unfortunately what Mr. Vaccaro is

experiencing - it really does do damage and makes it take a lot longer and be a

lot more difficult to get the kids better when you do get around to chelating

properly.

It is incredibly important to chelate properly, and to avoid chelating

improperly.

Not chelating for several years, then starting off doing it right works much

better than jumping into chelation and doing it wrong for a while, then

switching to doing it right.

Honestly, it is very painful for me to realize how much distress saying this is

going to cause a lot of parents, who first were defrauded into turning their

kids autistic with vaccines, then were defrauded AGAIN into hurting their kids

with improper chelation and making their eventual recovery more difficult and

less certain.

However it is terribly important people chelate their children properly if at

all possible. If they DO unfortunately chelate their children improperly for a

while, it is important the parents avoid feeling horrible about it and instead

put all that emotional energy into chelating them correctly for as long as it

takes - and they may need some of that energy to stick with it since it may end

up being a long time.

I am really truly sorry (and somewhat nauseated) that society has arranged

itself in such a horrid way - worship of the 'cult of the government certified

expert, who will take care of you,' and that you and your children are

repeatedly victimized by it.

Andy

http://www.noamalgam.com/index.html

Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment

http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html

Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities

http://www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html

Nourishing Hope for Autism: Nutrition Intervention for Healing Our Children

http://www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html

Biological Treatments for Autism and PDD

[Guest guest]

>

> There is no doubt my son responded favorably to chelation, but after that

stall

> (also considering my son is 11) it's so hard to tell. Btw during that time we

> took a chelation break and introduced a few antiviral protocols to see if he

was

> a responder. Mostly rule out any viral component that may been underneath. He

> did not respond to antiviral positive or negatively during the trials.

>

> I wrote Andy way back when around the #90-100 chelation round mark asking

about

> the stall in how long it lasts. . He said something to the effect. That it's

> hard to tell, what you may have seen in 1-2 rounds early may take 5-10, to see

> things. Totally understood and went back to business as usual. I know gains

may

> be subtle and we have to look at the whole picture. But in all honesty that

was

> over #50 rounds ago Not sure we are still responding today??? . There is no

> doubt my kid is/ was a chelation responder from the beginning, but im not sure

> today we are still making gains.

If you are not sure, keep going.

>

>

> Q. Describe in detail what his residual symptoms are, what symptoms improved

with chelation, and whether what he has includes symptoms that did not change

with chelation.

>

> O boy not easy to do this way but I try. When we first started EVEYTHING

improved. More On task with every round he did. Better on Round then off etc.

In the beginning picture perfect as understood with proper chelation That is

when he came out of his world he was trapped in. Today .He is bright smart,

funny boy. Great kid but He would still be considered autistic. No more stimms

still scripts a little but mostly for fun and entertainment. Prompting is needed

allot to get him moving. Mostly doing what he wants to do even when he knows the

consequences. He is a Pia and decides to get in trouble doing something he may

have read or comes up with curious Gorge adventures often.

>

> Again we hit all our major miles stones when we first started to chelate,

Speech potty training, imaginary play, reasoning etc then not much of any

besides mostly learned academics/ skills (bike ride / tie shoes) Then around 8-

years old he started to reference us naturally.( it was at that time I knew he

knew right from wrong) and was getting it . If you look back he has maid subtle

gains and come a long way. He knows how to talk share and express his feelings.

However if he has a choice he would stay in funland and video land instead of

join us in the real world.

A lot of kids are like that today. It probably has something to do with the

real world we've created for them by electing criminals like Bush and Obama and

their henchmen.

The real question isn't whether we think his generation is fubar (as every

generation of parents have since time immemorial), but whether he is out of line

with his peers in these ways.

>

> Q Also discuss what diet, sups, etc. he's on, his school and care situation,

etc.

>

> Diet is pretty much GFCF die free /preservative free diet. Lots of good whole

foods, mostly natural all home cooked. However not much veggies other then in

soups and blended dishes.

> A multi vit regimen, including complex minerals, PS PC All your anti oxidants

Vit D Pro Omega, pro B's

> School is a pretty solid Autistic Vb program;

As in the school still accepts that he is autistic and needs special help? He

has an IEP?

>home is the best we can do to support him, lots of love affection, praise.

Mostly he has only family and sibling relationships. Other than that he enjoys,

music books and videos.

>

> Q also if any doctors have said anything about what he has other than

" autism, " tell us what the diagnoses were.

>

> No other labels or diagnosis was given Originally met the criteria to Autism,

including hypersensitivity, stimms scripts OCD's non-verbal.

> Today he is chatterbox, troublemaker, and loves life but still stuck in the

wold of Autism.

>

> Q Did you try cranial sacral therapy, vision therapy, etc.

>

> No Docs nor therapies other than school, OT stuff. Did chiropractic

adjustments for some time w/ no help either way .

At least have him checked out by a behavioral optometrist.

>

> Andy we have been with your program for well over 5 years with no outside help

.. We are trying to do just that

> I would just like to hear a further comment based on our past results

progress, and what we have done ,what else we should be doing ? thanks you for

writing , please if you have a moment could you make a further comment other

than possible ,Probably, be patient just keep going . We have been hopeful and

holding on this a long time, but right now not sure what else we should be doing

?. What should we be looking for as we continue to chelate with no noticeable

changes? Any comments to figure out what else may be helpful

>

> thank you so much

> God bless

> Kenny V

>

I don't feel like this answered either whether you have a current diary of

progress to really say if it stopped or not, nor whether he has symptoms that

are not changing while others do. Those would be most informative.

Andy

http://www.noamalgam.com/index.html

Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment

http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html

Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities

http://www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html

Nourishing Hope for Autism: Nutrition Intervention for Healing Our Children

http://www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html

Biological Treatments for Autism and PDD

[Guest guest]

>

> There is no doubt my son responded favorably to chelation, but after that

stall

> (also considering my son is 11) it's so hard to tell. Btw during that time we

> took a chelation break and introduced a few antiviral protocols to see if he

was

> a responder. Mostly rule out any viral component that may been underneath. He

> did not respond to antiviral positive or negatively during the trials.

>

> I wrote Andy way back when around the #90-100 chelation round mark asking

about

> the stall in how long it lasts. . He said something to the effect. That it's

> hard to tell, what you may have seen in 1-2 rounds early may take 5-10, to see

> things. Totally understood and went back to business as usual. I know gains

may

> be subtle and we have to look at the whole picture. But in all honesty that

was

> over #50 rounds ago Not sure we are still responding today??? . There is no

> doubt my kid is/ was a chelation responder from the beginning, but im not sure

> today we are still making gains.

If you are not sure, keep going.

>

>

> Q. Describe in detail what his residual symptoms are, what symptoms improved

with chelation, and whether what he has includes symptoms that did not change

with chelation.

>

> O boy not easy to do this way but I try. When we first started EVEYTHING

improved. More On task with every round he did. Better on Round then off etc.

In the beginning picture perfect as understood with proper chelation That is

when he came out of his world he was trapped in. Today .He is bright smart,

funny boy. Great kid but He would still be considered autistic. No more stimms

still scripts a little but mostly for fun and entertainment. Prompting is needed

allot to get him moving. Mostly doing what he wants to do even when he knows the

consequences. He is a Pia and decides to get in trouble doing something he may

have read or comes up with curious Gorge adventures often.

>

> Again we hit all our major miles stones when we first started to chelate,

Speech potty training, imaginary play, reasoning etc then not much of any

besides mostly learned academics/ skills (bike ride / tie shoes) Then around 8-

years old he started to reference us naturally.( it was at that time I knew he

knew right from wrong) and was getting it . If you look back he has maid subtle

gains and come a long way. He knows how to talk share and express his feelings.

However if he has a choice he would stay in funland and video land instead of

join us in the real world.

A lot of kids are like that today. It probably has something to do with the

real world we've created for them by electing criminals like Bush and Obama and

their henchmen.

The real question isn't whether we think his generation is fubar (as every

generation of parents have since time immemorial), but whether he is out of line

with his peers in these ways.

>

> Q Also discuss what diet, sups, etc. he's on, his school and care situation,

etc.

>

> Diet is pretty much GFCF die free /preservative free diet. Lots of good whole

foods, mostly natural all home cooked. However not much veggies other then in

soups and blended dishes.

> A multi vit regimen, including complex minerals, PS PC All your anti oxidants

Vit D Pro Omega, pro B's

> School is a pretty solid Autistic Vb program;

As in the school still accepts that he is autistic and needs special help? He

has an IEP?

>home is the best we can do to support him, lots of love affection, praise.

Mostly he has only family and sibling relationships. Other than that he enjoys,

music books and videos.

>

> Q also if any doctors have said anything about what he has other than

" autism, " tell us what the diagnoses were.

>

> No other labels or diagnosis was given Originally met the criteria to Autism,

including hypersensitivity, stimms scripts OCD's non-verbal.

> Today he is chatterbox, troublemaker, and loves life but still stuck in the

wold of Autism.

>

> Q Did you try cranial sacral therapy, vision therapy, etc.

>

> No Docs nor therapies other than school, OT stuff. Did chiropractic

adjustments for some time w/ no help either way .

At least have him checked out by a behavioral optometrist.

>

> Andy we have been with your program for well over 5 years with no outside help

.. We are trying to do just that

> I would just like to hear a further comment based on our past results

progress, and what we have done ,what else we should be doing ? thanks you for

writing , please if you have a moment could you make a further comment other

than possible ,Probably, be patient just keep going . We have been hopeful and

holding on this a long time, but right now not sure what else we should be doing

?. What should we be looking for as we continue to chelate with no noticeable

changes? Any comments to figure out what else may be helpful

>

> thank you so much

> God bless

> Kenny V

>

I don't feel like this answered either whether you have a current diary of

progress to really say if it stopped or not, nor whether he has symptoms that

are not changing while others do. Those would be most informative.

Andy

http://www.noamalgam.com/index.html

Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment

http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html

Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities

http://www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html

Nourishing Hope for Autism: Nutrition Intervention for Healing Our Children

http://www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html

Biological Treatments for Autism and PDD

[Guest guest]

I would suggest you keep going with the chelation, do re-start the video diary,

and take him to see a vision therapy optometrist as you might find on oep.org or

covd.org.

The beginning bit of improper chelation does make things go slower. Be patient.

I don't believe in making people do ONLY " my thing. " I just try to get them not

to do things that are bad for their kid. So if you do have other things you'd

like to consider, post and we can talk about them.

I really do not know or understand your family dynamic, so I can't have any

insight into whether family counselling would be relevant to try to figure out

how to interact with him so as to draw him out more. He is old enough now that

if he wanted to he probably could talk about what is going on in his head with a

counselor.

Andy

http://www.noamalgam.com/index.html

Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment

http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html

Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities

http://www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html

Nourishing Hope for Autism: Nutrition Intervention for Healing Our Children

http://www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html

Biological Treatments for Autism and PDD

>

> There is no doubt my son responded favorably to chelation, but after that

stall

> (also considering my son is 11) it's so hard to tell. Btw during that time we

> took a chelation break and introduced a few antiviral protocols to see if he

was

> a responder. Mostly rule out any viral component that may been underneath. He

> did not respond to antiviral positive or negatively during the trials.

>

> I wrote Andy way back when around the #90-100 chelation round mark asking

about

> the stall in how long it lasts. . He said something to the effect. That it's

> hard to tell, what you may have seen in 1-2 rounds early may take 5-10, to see

> things. Totally understood and went back to business as usual. I know gains

may

> be subtle and we have to look at the whole picture. But in all honesty that

was

> over #50 rounds ago Not sure we are still responding today??? . There is no

> doubt my kid is/ was a chelation responder from the beginning, but im not sure

> today we are still making gains.

>

>

> Q. Describe in detail what his residual symptoms are, what symptoms improved

with chelation, and whether what he has includes symptoms that did not change

with chelation.

>

> O boy not easy to do this way but I try. When we first started EVEYTHING

improved. More On task with every round he did. Better on Round then off etc.

In the beginning picture perfect as understood with proper chelation That is

when he came out of his world he was trapped in. Today .He is bright smart,

funny boy. Great kid but He would still be considered autistic. No more stimms

still scripts a little but mostly for fun and entertainment. Prompting is needed

allot to get him moving. Mostly doing what he wants to do even when he knows the

consequences. He is a Pia and decides to get in trouble doing something he may

have read or comes up with curious Gorge adventures often.

>

> Again we hit all our major miles stones when we first started to chelate,

Speech potty training, imaginary play, reasoning etc then not much of any

besides mostly learned academics/ skills (bike ride / tie shoes) Then around 8-

years old he started to reference us naturally.( it was at that time I knew he

knew right from wrong) and was getting it . If you look back he has maid subtle

gains and come a long way. He knows how to talk share and express his feelings.

However if he has a choice he would stay in funland and video land instead of

join us in the real world.

>

>

> Q Also discuss what diet, sups, etc. he's on, his school and care situation,

etc.

>

> Diet is pretty much GFCF die free /preservative free diet. Lots of good whole

foods, mostly natural all home cooked. However not much veggies other then in

soups and blended dishes.

> A multi vit regimen, including complex minerals, PS PC All your anti oxidants

Vit D Pro Omega, pro B's

> School is a pretty solid Autistic Vb program; home is the best we can do to

support him, lots of love affection, praise. Mostly he has only family and

sibling relationships. Other than that he enjoys, music books and videos.

>

> Q also if any doctors have said anything about what he has other than

" autism, " tell us what the diagnoses were.

>

> No other labels or diagnosis was given Originally met the criteria to Autism,

including hypersensitivity, stimms scripts OCD's non-verbal.

> Today he is chatterbox, troublemaker, and loves life but still stuck in the

wold of Autism.

>

> Q Did you try cranial sacral therapy, vision therapy, etc.

>

> No Docs nor therapies other than school, OT stuff. Did chiropractic

adjustments for some time w/ no help either way .

>

> Andy we have been with your program for well over 5 years with no outside help

.. We are trying to do just that

> I would just like to hear a further comment based on our past results

progress, and what we have done ,what else we should be doing ? thanks you for

writing , please if you have a moment could you make a further comment other

than possible ,Probably, be patient just keep going . We have been hopeful and

holding on this a long time, but right now not sure what else we should be doing

?. What should we be looking for as we continue to chelate with no noticeable

changes? Any comments to figure out what else may be helpful

>

> thank you so much

> God bless

> Kenny V

>

[Guest guest]

A few days ago, I submitted an idea in this threat, asking Andy to clarify

whether this was a good idea or not.

Andy did not like it and so I deleted my original post to avoid any confusion.

The last thing any of us want is for a child to get hurt. So yes, I removed the

inappropriate information.

Below is an excerpt from the deleted post.

Re: Older kids still making gains / chelation responder (ANDY)

Andy,

Ken,

@Andy: Please let me begin by saying: thank you, thank you so much, Andy. I owe

you my life.

Your detox protocol, outlined in your trail-blazing book " Amalgam Illness

Diagnosis and Treatment " , literally saved my life.

> Andy we have been with your program for well over 5 years

> with no outsidehelp

@Ken,

you chose the best protocol for your little boy. The only one which is safe and

actually works.

[description deleted]

The ultimate authority on chelation is Andy.

I would love to hear what both of you think.