Re: Post-DMSA-round symptoms

March 10, 2010

I would give him the week off. Especially having chelated through the

fever last week.

How much GSE are you giving? Can you give us a complete list of

supplements, with dose and source (i.e. what _kind_ of magnesium, e.g.

citrate, orotate, etc...)

So he's done this on 12.5 ALA alone, then on 2.5 DMSA alone, right?

Some kids have trouble even with 1mg. Especially after a bigger dose.

Maybe you should experiment with a round of 1mg ALA only, after the week

off...

lenakhais wrote:

>

> Morning,

>

> we have completed the 2nd round (our first on just DMSA, using 2.5 mg

> for a 40 lb boy). He did fine on the round, no big differences either

> way. However, we're now 2 days post and he is an emotional mess! He

> cries at the drop of a needle! Like if my husband goes upstairs to get

> dressed before taking him to daycare - he's in tears " I miss daddy! "

> Same thing at daycare - cries on and off all day long...

>

> His sleep has also gotten SO much worse... Like 10 times worse. He

> can't fall asleep on his own. We have to stay in the room. He wakes up

> constantly and now we HAVE to either sleep with him or bring him to

> our bedroom and let him sleep with us. But he cries even in his sleep!

>

> I put him on GSE, followed by charcoal... thinking yeast? What are

> your thoughts, guys? The DMSA dose that we used was so small, I can't

> believe it is due to that?

>

> Should we just stick with it and hope that with each round his

> symptoms will lessen little by little? Another round is coming up in

> less than 2 days (we start each round mid-Fr and go until Mon morning)

>

March 10, 2010

I think that attributing anything to such a small dose of DMSA would be like

taking one sip of beer and worrying about being OK to drive.

You should trust Andy's decision to arrive at a minimum dose since Andy knows

what he is talking about. Check what Andy has to say in his protocol and use

that as your guide.

I went through a lot of horror before my son got better. He would not have

achieved the gains he has if I was giving doses that were too small to help him.

> >

> > Morning,

> >

> > we have completed the 2nd round (our first on just DMSA, using 2.5 mg

> > for a 40 lb boy). He did fine on the round, no big differences either

> > way. However, we're now 2 days post and he is an emotional mess! He

> > cries at the drop of a needle! Like if my husband goes upstairs to get

> > dressed before taking him to daycare - he's in tears " I miss daddy! "

> > Same thing at daycare - cries on and off all day long...

> >

> > His sleep has also gotten SO much worse... Like 10 times worse. He

> > can't fall asleep on his own. We have to stay in the room. He wakes up

> > constantly and now we HAVE to either sleep with him or bring him to

> > our bedroom and let him sleep with us. But he cries even in his sleep!

> >

> > I put him on GSE, followed by charcoal... thinking yeast? What are

> > your thoughts, guys? The DMSA dose that we used was so small, I can't

> > believe it is due to that?

> >

> > Should we just stick with it and hope that with each round his

> > symptoms will lessen little by little? Another round is coming up in

> > less than 2 days (we start each round mid-Fr and go until Mon morning)

> >

>

March 10, 2010

Yes, you're right - first ever round on 12.5 mg ALA alone, then second round on

2.5 mg DMSA alone. He did run a fever during the second round that I think was

cold, not DMSA, related. It actually came down on its own and he now only has

some residual cough (a tiny bit). We saw a lot less night sweats with DMSA than

we did with ALA (probably due to a lower dose). But we also saw no gains with

DMSA and we were amazed what a difference of just 1 round of ALA made on his

language...

Here is what he's on (all the time, not just on rounds):

Compounded vitamins/ minerals mix - 1 teaspoon twice a day. Amounts below are

for two (2) teaspoons

calcium-chelated 600 mg

cal gluconate 300 mg

chromium GTF 150 mg

manganese chelate 3 mg

magnesium glycinate 150 mg

selenium proteinate (yeast free) 100 mcg

zinc chelate 40 mg

molbydenum 75 mg

vit A micelized 2500 iu

B1 2 mg

B2 2 mg

niacinamide 25 mg

B5 3 mg

P-5-P 3 mg

B12 50 mcg

folinic acid 800 mcg

vit E micelized 30 iu

vit D3 1000 iu

sodium ascorbate 750 mg

biotin 600 mcg

Fish Oil Kid's Omega Advantage by Life Guard 1 teaspoon per day

EPA 800 mg

DHA 500 mg

Perfect E by Pathway 800 iu once a day

4Life Transfer Factor Plus 1 cap twice a day

1/4 drop of GSE twice a day (followed by a cap of activated charcoal in an hour)

Nootropil (Piracetam) 1 teaspoon once a day

Lipase concentrate -HP by Integrative Therapeutics 1 cap twice a day

Zyme Prime multiple enzyme by Houston Nutraceuticals 1 cap twice a day

Ther-biotic complete 25+ billion CFUs (thinking of switching to Ther-biotic

detox support) 1 cap twice a day

Lactobacillus Duo by Kirkman 1 cap twice a day

on a round we also give additional vit C (buffer-C ph Controlled) up to 1000mg

per day in divided doses....

, thank you for your recommendations. The reason we switched to DMSA

(from ALA) was because I read here that DMSA actually helps with symptoms that

ALA can create and that taking them together might even help some kids to feel

better off rounds?

Thank you

________________________________

From: Ross <mrossgrp@...>

Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 11:46:04 AM

Subject: Re: [ ] Post-DMSA-round symptoms

I would give him the week off. Especially having chelated through the

fever last week.

How much GSE are you giving? Can you give us a complete list of

supplements, with dose and source (i.e. what _kind_ of magnesium, e.g.

citrate, orotate, etc...)

So he's done this on 12.5 ALA alone, then on 2.5 DMSA alone, right?

Some kids have trouble even with 1mg. Especially after a bigger dose.

Maybe you should experiment with a round of 1mg ALA only, after the week

off...

lenakhais wrote:

>

> Morning,

>

> we have completed the 2nd round (our first on just DMSA, using 2.5 mg

> for a 40 lb boy). He did fine on the round, no big differences either

> way. However, we're now 2 days post and he is an emotional mess! He

> cries at the drop of a needle! Like if my husband goes upstairs to get

> dressed before taking him to daycare - he's in tears " I miss daddy! "

> Same thing at daycare - cries on and off all day long...

>

> His sleep has also gotten SO much worse... Like 10 times worse. He

> can't fall asleep on his own. We have to stay in the room. He wakes up

> constantly and now we HAVE to either sleep with him or bring him to

> our bedroom and let him sleep with us. But he cries even in his sleep!

>

> I put him on GSE, followed by charcoal... thinking yeast? What are

> your thoughts, guys? The DMSA dose that we used was so small, I can't

> believe it is due to that?

>

> Should we just stick with it and hope that with each round his

> symptoms will lessen little by little? Another round is coming up in

> less than 2 days (we start each round mid-Fr and go until Mon morning)

>

------------------------------------

=======================================================

March 10, 2010

Best wrote:

>

> I think that attributing anything to such a small dose of DMSA would

> be like taking one sip of beer and worrying about being OK to drive.

>

Your simile is flawed. If you have liver disease or are of Asian descent

and cannot tolerate alcohol, yes, of course it would make sense to worry

about one sip of alcohol and driving. The point is, everyone's anatomy,

constitution and reactions are different.

>

> You should trust Andy's decision to arrive at a minimum dose since

> Andy knows what he is talking about.

>

And Andy is the first to say: use your own judgment.

> Check what Andy has to say in his protocol and use that as your guide.

>

What Andy ACTUALLY says is start at 1/8 mg/lb and adjust up or DOWN,

based on symptoms.

He has described doses of 1/30 mg/lb as " small by my standards, but not

outrageously low. "

http://onibasu.com/archives/am/82131.html

>

> I went through a lot of horror before my son got better. He would not

> have achieved the gains he has if I was giving doses that were too

> small to help him.

>

That's nice. We're all happy your son got better. But he is only one

case and you CANNOT extrapolate to others.

And if you are going to incant Andy, please get it right.

>

> > >

> > > Morning,

> > >

> > > we have completed the 2nd round (our first on just DMSA, using 2.5 mg

> > > for a 40 lb boy). He did fine on the round, no big differences either

> > > way. However, we're now 2 days post and he is an emotional mess! He

> > > cries at the drop of a needle! Like if my husband goes upstairs to

> get

> > > dressed before taking him to daycare - he's in tears " I miss daddy! "

> > > Same thing at daycare - cries on and off all day long...

> > >

> > > His sleep has also gotten SO much worse... Like 10 times worse. He

> > > can't fall asleep on his own. We have to stay in the room. He

> wakes up

> > > constantly and now we HAVE to either sleep with him or bring him to

> > > our bedroom and let him sleep with us. But he cries even in his sleep!

> > >

> > > I put him on GSE, followed by charcoal... thinking yeast? What are

> > > your thoughts, guys? The DMSA dose that we used was so small, I can't

> > > believe it is due to that?

> > >

> > > Should we just stick with it and hope that with each round his

> > > symptoms will lessen little by little? Another round is coming up in

> > > less than 2 days (we start each round mid-Fr and go until Mon morning)

> > >

> >

>

March 10, 2010

Lena Khais wrote:

>

> Yes, you're right - first ever round on 12.5 mg ALA alone, then second

> round on 2.5 mg DMSA alone. He did run a fever during the second round

> that I think was cold, not DMSA, related. It actually came down on its

> own and he now only has some residual cough (a tiny bit). We saw a lot

> less night sweats with DMSA than we did with ALA (probably due to a

> lower dose). But we also saw no gains with DMSA and we were amazed

> what a difference of just 1 round of ALA made on his language...

>

Right, as ALA pulls the mercury out of the brain, DMSA doesn't.

>

> Here is what he's on (all the time, not just on rounds):

>

> Compounded vitamins/ minerals mix - 1 teaspoon twice a day. Amounts

> below are for two (2) teaspoons

> calcium-chelated 600 mg

> cal gluconate 300 mg

> chromium GTF 150 mg

> manganese chelate 3 mg

> magnesium glycinate 150 mg

> selenium proteinate (yeast free) 100 mcg

> zinc chelate 40 mg

> molbydenum 75 mg

>

This is very little Mb

> vit A micelized 2500 iu

> B1 2 mg

> B2 2 mg

> niacinamide 25 mg

> B5 3 mg

> P-5-P 3 mg

> B12 50 mcg

>

This also looks low for the Bs across the board...

> folinic acid 800 mcg

> vit E micelized 30 iu

> vit D3 1000 iu

> sodium ascorbate 750 mg

> biotin 600 mcg

>

> Fish Oil Kid's Omega Advantage by Life Guard 1 teaspoon per day

> EPA 800 mg

> DHA 500 mg

>

> Perfect E by Pathway 800 iu once a day

>

> 4Life Transfer Factor Plus 1 cap twice a day

>

What are you trying to accomplish with this? If you are trying to boost

his immune system, lots of inositol (which this contains) and CoQ10,

arginine and lysine will help.

> 1/4 drop of GSE twice a day (followed by a cap of activated charcoal

> in an hour)

>

> Nootropil (Piracetam) 1 teaspoon once a day

>

> Lipase concentrate -HP by Integrative Therapeutics 1 cap twice a day

> Zyme Prime multiple enzyme by Houston Nutraceuticals 1 cap twice a day

> Ther-biotic complete 25+ billion CFUs (thinking of switching to

> Ther-biotic detox support) 1 cap twice a day

> Lactobacillus Duo by Kirkman 1 cap twice a day

>

> on a round we also give additional vit C (buffer-C ph Controlled) up

> to 1000mg per day in divided doses....

>

> , thank you for your recommendations. The reason we switched to

> DMSA (from ALA) was because I read here that DMSA actually helps with

> symptoms that ALA can create and that taking them together might even

> help some kids to feel better off rounds?

>

When taken together, yes. DMSA is worse for yeast, though. DMPS is

better for yeast than DMSA, and can help with ALA-induced symptoms.

>

> Thank you

>

You're welcome.

> ________________________________

> From: Ross <mrossgrp@... <mailto:mrossgrp%40gmail.com>>

>

> <mailto: %40>

> Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 11:46:04 AM

> Subject: Re: [ ] Post-DMSA-round symptoms

>

> I would give him the week off. Especially having chelated through the

> fever last week.

>

> How much GSE are you giving? Can you give us a complete list of

> supplements, with dose and source (i.e. what _kind_ of magnesium, e.g.

> citrate, orotate, etc...)

>

> So he's done this on 12.5 ALA alone, then on 2.5 DMSA alone, right?

>

> Some kids have trouble even with 1mg. Especially after a bigger dose.

> Maybe you should experiment with a round of 1mg ALA only, after the week

> off...

>

> lenakhais wrote:

> >

> > Morning,

> >

> > we have completed the 2nd round (our first on just DMSA, using 2.5 mg

> > for a 40 lb boy). He did fine on the round, no big differences either

> > way. However, we're now 2 days post and he is an emotional mess! He

> > cries at the drop of a needle! Like if my husband goes upstairs to get

> > dressed before taking him to daycare - he's in tears " I miss daddy! "

> > Same thing at daycare - cries on and off all day long...

> >

> > His sleep has also gotten SO much worse... Like 10 times worse. He

> > can't fall asleep on his own. We have to stay in the room. He wakes up

> > constantly and now we HAVE to either sleep with him or bring him to

> > our bedroom and let him sleep with us. But he cries even in his sleep!

> >

> > I put him on GSE, followed by charcoal... thinking yeast? What are

> > your thoughts, guys? The DMSA dose that we used was so small, I can't

> > believe it is due to that?

> >

> > Should we just stick with it and hope that with each round his

> > symptoms will lessen little by little? Another round is coming up in

> > less than 2 days (we start each round mid-Fr and go until Mon morning)

> >

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> =======================================================

>

March 10, 2010

" Reasonable dosages are 1/8 to 1/2 mg per pound for each of ALA, DMSA and DMPS "

Simple logic tells us that doses outside of this range are UNreasonable. Stop

trying to scare people, .

> > > >

> > > > Morning,

> > > >

> > > > we have completed the 2nd round (our first on just DMSA, using 2.5 mg

> > > > for a 40 lb boy). He did fine on the round, no big differences either

> > > > way. However, we're now 2 days post and he is an emotional mess! He

> > > > cries at the drop of a needle! Like if my husband goes upstairs to

> > get

> > > > dressed before taking him to daycare - he's in tears " I miss daddy! "

> > > > Same thing at daycare - cries on and off all day long...

> > > >

> > > > His sleep has also gotten SO much worse... Like 10 times worse. He

> > > > can't fall asleep on his own. We have to stay in the room. He

> > wakes up

> > > > constantly and now we HAVE to either sleep with him or bring him to

> > > > our bedroom and let him sleep with us. But he cries even in his sleep!

> > > >

> > > > I put him on GSE, followed by charcoal... thinking yeast? What are

> > > > your thoughts, guys? The DMSA dose that we used was so small, I can't

> > > > believe it is due to that?

> > > >

> > > > Should we just stick with it and hope that with each round his

> > > > symptoms will lessen little by little? Another round is coming up in

> > > > less than 2 days (we start each round mid-Fr and go until Mon morning)

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

March 10, 2010

Redistribution. Increase vitamin c, give epsom salt baths. Make sure yeast is

being treated and is in control.

We needed to add adrenal support to help with symptoms of anxiety, and address

sleep problems. i did find dmsa disrupted our sleep when we used it and we used

melatonin 1/2 hour before bedtime to help regulate that.

Jan

>

> Morning,

>

> we have completed the 2nd round (our first on just DMSA, using 2.5 mg for a 40

lb boy). He did fine on the round, no big differences either way. However, we're

now 2 days post and he is an emotional mess! He cries at the drop of a needle!

Like if my husband goes upstairs to get dressed before taking him to daycare -

he's in tears " I miss daddy! " Same thing at daycare - cries on and off all day

long...

>

> His sleep has also gotten SO much worse... Like 10 times worse. He can't fall

asleep on his own. We have to stay in the room. He wakes up constantly and now

we HAVE to either sleep with him or bring him to our bedroom and let him sleep

with us. But he cries even in his sleep!

>

> I put him on GSE, followed by charcoal... thinking yeast? What are your

thoughts, guys? The DMSA dose that we used was so small, I can't believe it is

due to that?

>

> Should we just stick with it and hope that with each round his symptoms will

lessen little by little? Another round is coming up in less than 2 days (we

start each round mid-Fr and go until Mon morning)

>

March 10, 2010

OK, here's our experience on using a tiny bit of ALA and seeing results:

We have been using 3 mg of ALA with our 15 year old DS for a year (28

rounds) and have seen AMAZING results. DS has severe adrenal issues

and still has not been able to tolerate more so far, but we are

working on it, now with on board. This just shows how

much YMMV.

Angie

-----------------------------------------

I think that attributing anything to such a small dose of DMSA would

be like taking one sip of beer and worrying about being OK to drive.

You should trust Andy's decision to arrive at a minimum dose since

Andy knows what he is talking about. Check what Andy has to say in his

protocol and use that as your guide.

I went through a lot of horror before my son got better. He would not

have achieved the gains he has if I was giving doses that were too

small to help him.

---------------------------------

March 10, 2010

Jen,

what do you use for adrenal support? What's the best way for us to confirm that

he might need adrenal support?

Thank you

________________________________

From: Jan <mercurybabies2@...>

Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 4:54:57 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: Post-DMSA-round symptoms

Redistribution. Increase vitamin c, give epsom salt baths. Make sure yeast is

being treated and is in control.

We needed to add adrenal support to help with symptoms of anxiety, and address

sleep problems. i did find dmsa disrupted our sleep when we used it and we used

melatonin 1/2 hour before bedtime to help regulate that.

Jan

>

> Morning,

>

> we have completed the 2nd round (our first on just DMSA, using 2.5 mg for a 40

lb boy). He did fine on the round, no big differences either way. However, we're

now 2 days post and he is an emotional mess! He cries at the drop of a needle!

Like if my husband goes upstairs to get dressed before taking him to daycare -

he's in tears " I miss daddy! " Same thing at daycare - cries on and off all day

long...

>

> His sleep has also gotten SO much worse... Like 10 times worse. He can't fall

asleep on his own. We have to stay in the room. He wakes up constantly and now

we HAVE to either sleep with him or bring him to our bedroom and let him sleep

with us. But he cries even in his sleep!

>

> I put him on GSE, followed by charcoal... thinking yeast? What are your

thoughts, guys? The DMSA dose that we used was so small, I can't believe it is

due to that?

>

> Should we just stick with it and hope that with each round his symptoms will

lessen little by little? Another round is coming up in less than 2 days (we

start each round mid-Fr and go until Mon morning)

>

March 10, 2010

In our experience, sometimes the toxins mobilized during a round get " stuck " in

the gut and don't make it out, especially if one isn't consuming a high-fiber

diet, drinking plenty of water and having really good bowel movements.

Sometimes biofilms from gut bugs also contribute to the problem. Besides

charcoal we use apple pectin after rounds along with Candex and probiotics.

Dietwise, finely sliced cabbage (if your kid isn't sulfur-food sensitive) can be

cooked to provide some roughage. Sneaking freshly ground flaxseeds into baked

goods or cereals can help too. Think in terms of cleaning out the plumbing...

Hang in there,

P

March 11, 2010

> we have completed the 2nd round (our first on just DMSA, using 2.5 mg for a 40

lb boy). He did fine on the round, no big differences either way. However, we're

now 2 days post and he is an emotional mess! He cries at the drop of a needle!

> His sleep has also gotten SO much worse... Like 10 times worse. He can't fall

asleep on his own. We have to stay in the room. He wakes up constantly and now

we HAVE to either sleep with him or bring him to our bedroom and let him sleep

with us. But he cries even in his sleep!

> I put him on GSE, followed by charcoal... thinking yeast? What are your

thoughts, guys? The DMSA dose that we used was so small, I can't believe it is

due to that?

Those would have been yeast symptoms at my house. I used biotin and GSE. How

much GSE are you giving? And be sure the charcoal is 45 minutes after the GSE,

not at the same time.

Dana

March 11, 2010

Hi Dana,

yes, I am spacing GSE and charcoal... You'd laugh at my GSE dose though (1/4 a

drop) but that's all he can take. I tried him on a drop to start with and he

went nutz!

> > we have completed the 2nd round (our first on just DMSA, using 2.5 mg for a

40 lb boy). He did fine on the round, no big differences either way. However,

we're now 2 days post and he is an emotional mess! He cries at the drop of a

needle!

> > His sleep has also gotten SO much worse... Like 10 times worse. He can't

fall asleep on his own. We have to stay in the room. He wakes up constantly and

now we HAVE to either sleep with him or bring him to our bedroom and let him

sleep with us. But he cries even in his sleep!

> > I put him on GSE, followed by charcoal... thinking yeast? What are your

thoughts, guys? The DMSA dose that we used was so small, I can't believe it is

due to that?

>

> Those would have been yeast symptoms at my house. I used biotin and GSE. How

much GSE are you giving? And be sure the charcoal is 45 minutes after the GSE,

not at the same time.

>

> Dana

>

March 11, 2010

lenakhais wrote:

>

> Hi Dana,

>

> yes, I am spacing GSE and charcoal... You'd laugh at my GSE dose

> though (1/4 a drop) but that's all he can take. I tried him on a drop

> to start with and he went nutz!

>

Which makes me wonder if he has problems with phenols...

>

> > > we have completed the 2nd round (our first on just DMSA, using 2.5

> mg for a 40 lb boy). He did fine on the round, no big differences

> either way. However, we're now 2 days post and he is an emotional

> mess! He cries at the drop of a needle!

> > > His sleep has also gotten SO much worse... Like 10 times worse. He

> can't fall asleep on his own. We have to stay in the room. He wakes up

> constantly and now we HAVE to either sleep with him or bring him to

> our bedroom and let him sleep with us. But he cries even in his sleep!

> > > I put him on GSE, followed by charcoal... thinking yeast? What are

> your thoughts, guys? The DMSA dose that we used was so small, I can't

> believe it is due to that?

> >

> > Those would have been yeast symptoms at my house. I used biotin and

> GSE. How much GSE are you giving? And be sure the charcoal is 45

> minutes after the GSE, not at the same time.

> >

> > Dana

> >

>

March 11, 2010

That's been suggested before... and even I've been suggested that it was why he

couldn't do Enhansa... But (and I'm pretty new to this so I apologize for

somewhat naive and generalized posts) he doesn't have the what I would consider

those typical visual physical signs like red ears/ cheeks... I even tried giving

him No Phenol (in fact still have it) and couldn't tell a difference....

How do you suggest I investigate that....and should I give No Phenol another

try? (If it turns out he IS sensitive to phenols?)

Thank you so much for your ongoing guidance

>

> Hi Dana,

>

> yes, I am spacing GSE and charcoal... You'd laugh at my GSE dose

> though (1/4 a drop) but that's all he can take. I tried him on a drop

> to start with and he went nutz!

>

Which makes me wonder if he has problems with phenols...

>

> > > we have completed the 2nd round (our first on just DMSA, using 2.5

> mg for a 40 lb boy). He did fine on the round, no big differences

> either way. However, we're now 2 days post and he is an emotional

> mess! He cries at the drop of a needle!

> > > His sleep has also gotten SO much worse... Like 10 times worse. He

> can't fall asleep on his own. We have to stay in the room. He wakes up

> constantly and now we HAVE to either sleep with him or bring him to

> our bedroom and let him sleep with us. But he cries even in his sleep!

> > > I put him on GSE, followed by charcoal... thinking yeast? What are

> your thoughts, guys? The DMSA dose that we used was so small, I can't

> believe it is due to that?

> >

> > Those would have been yeast symptoms at my house. I used biotin and

> GSE. How much GSE are you giving? And be sure the charcoal is 45

> minutes after the GSE, not at the same time.

> >

> > Dana

> >

>

------------------------------------

=======================================================

March 12, 2010

> Hi Dana,

> yes, I am spacing GSE and charcoal... You'd laugh at my GSE dose though (1/4 a

drop) but that's all he can take. I tried him on a drop to start with and he

went nutz!

Yep, that dose would have done nothing here!

Does he have slow phase I liver metabolism?

Does that dose work?

Dana

March 12, 2010

I don't know the answer to your first question - phase I one... How would I test

for that?

I think even this tiny dose (followed by charcoal) does help a bit because he

gets calmer and less silly (no jumping off hights, no throwing self on the

floor, etc)... Perhaps higher doses of GSE would help us gain more but he gets

so off-the-wall crazy hyper on them that we stayed away from that...

Lena

________________________________

From: danasview <danasview@...>

Sent: Fri, March 12, 2010 9:30:02 AM

Subject: [ ] Re: Post-DMSA-round symptoms

> Hi Dana,

> yes, I am spacing GSE and charcoal... You'd laugh at my GSE dose though (1/4 a

drop) but that's all he can take. I tried him on a drop to start with and he

went nutz!

Yep, that dose would have done nothing here!

Does he have slow phase I liver metabolism?

Does that dose work?

Dana

March 14, 2010

this is a long one im to tired to read it all

just wanted to throw in here and say that my kid made loads

of progress on very small doses i did plenty of 3,4,5 mg rounds

i felt that the side effects were not worth the extra dose

it used to take more than 1 week too put her back together

after the round so i backed way off the dose and started to be able to do rounds

every weekend

now i try to do it 3x per month at least

and finally after more than one year she is at 12.5mg dmsa and 6.25 ala

actually i just got her here after suggestion from Jan

she is in nt school pre school and has minimal intervention after starting out

not so good, and is doing great after 46 rounds

March 14, 2010

Best wrote:

>

> " Reasonable dosages are 1/8 to 1/2 mg per pound for each of ALA, DMSA

> and DMPS "

>

Source, please. Who are you quoting? Where was this said? Provide a URL.

>

> Simple logic tells us that doses outside of this range are UNreasonable.

>

And logic fails you. There may or may not be an implication. Certainly,

Andy has stated that STARTING doses ABOVE 1/2 mg/lb are unreasonable.

From the testimonials already given here, it is evident that LOWER

doses are reasonable, effective, and worth experimenting with.

> Stop trying to scare people, .

>

Funny, funny words, coming from the quintessential bully.

Again, I refer you to Andy's own words:

" Start supps, wait a week or two (at least, it usually ends up being a

few months),

then start chelation at 1/8 mg per pound ... and adjust dosage up OR

DOWN depending on response. "

http://onibasu.com/archives/am/82131.html

>

> > > > >

> > > > > Morning,

> > > > >

> > > > > we have completed the 2nd round (our first on just DMSA, using

> 2.5 mg

> > > > > for a 40 lb boy). He did fine on the round, no big differences

> either

> > > > > way. However, we're now 2 days post and he is an emotional

> mess! He

> > > > > cries at the drop of a needle! Like if my husband goes

> upstairs to

> > > get

> > > > > dressed before taking him to daycare - he's in tears " I miss

> daddy! "

> > > > > Same thing at daycare - cries on and off all day long...

> > > > >

> > > > > His sleep has also gotten SO much worse... Like 10 times worse. He

> > > > > can't fall asleep on his own. We have to stay in the room. He

> > > wakes up

> > > > > constantly and now we HAVE to either sleep with him or bring

> him to

> > > > > our bedroom and let him sleep with us. But he cries even in

> his sleep!

> > > > >

> > > > > I put him on GSE, followed by charcoal... thinking yeast? What are

> > > > > your thoughts, guys? The DMSA dose that we used was so small,

> I can't

> > > > > believe it is due to that?

> > > > >

> > > > > Should we just stick with it and hope that with each round his

> > > > > symptoms will lessen little by little? Another round is coming

> up in

> > > > > less than 2 days (we start each round mid-Fr and go until Mon

> morning)

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

March 14, 2010

,

For someone who pretends to be all-knowing regarding what Dr Cutler says, one

would think you would recognize the words I quoted from Andy's protocol.

Am I a bully for quoting Andy or for pointing out that you don't have a clue

what you're talking about? 1/40 is waaaay below what Andy says you need at 1/8,

. If a doctor told you to 5 parts of a medicine to knock out an

infection, would you be safe and only take one part? I don't think you would do

that .

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Morning,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > we have completed the 2nd round (our first on just DMSA, using

> > 2.5 mg

> > > > > > for a 40 lb boy). He did fine on the round, no big differences

> > either

> > > > > > way. However, we're now 2 days post and he is an emotional

> > mess! He

> > > > > > cries at the drop of a needle! Like if my husband goes

> > upstairs to

> > > > get

> > > > > > dressed before taking him to daycare - he's in tears " I miss

> > daddy! "

> > > > > > Same thing at daycare - cries on and off all day long...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > His sleep has also gotten SO much worse... Like 10 times worse. He

> > > > > > can't fall asleep on his own. We have to stay in the room. He

> > > > wakes up

> > > > > > constantly and now we HAVE to either sleep with him or bring

> > him to

> > > > > > our bedroom and let him sleep with us. But he cries even in

> > his sleep!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I put him on GSE, followed by charcoal... thinking yeast? What are

> > > > > > your thoughts, guys? The DMSA dose that we used was so small,

> > I can't

> > > > > > believe it is due to that?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Should we just stick with it and hope that with each round his

> > > > > > symptoms will lessen little by little? Another round is coming

> > up in

> > > > > > less than 2 days (we start each round mid-Fr and go until Mon

> > morning)

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

March 14, 2010

Best wrote:

>

> ,

> For someone who pretends to be all-knowing regarding what Dr Cutler

> says, one would think you would recognize the words I quoted from

> Andy's protocol.

>

Oh, I recognize them alright. What I was pointing out is that YOU need

to backup your quotes for people here. Andy has said many times that he

does not want to be quoted without a reference to a post. So be a good

sport and just do it.

>

> Am I a bully for quoting Andy or for pointing out that you don't have

> a clue what you're talking about?

>

You are a bully in your general demeanor. Especially in private emails,

as we all now know.

> 1/40 is waaaay below what Andy says you need at 1/8,

>

Nope. And I said 1/30, not 1/40. Please get it right.

> . If a doctor told you to 5 parts of a medicine to knock out an

> infection, would you be safe and only take one part? I don't think you

> would do that .

>

You really don't seem to get it. The SAME " doctor " in this case says

it's OK to take 1, 5 or 20 parts, because the " doctor " , unlike you,

understands that everyone's body and reactions to medicine are different.

Honestly, your obsession with this small point is puzzling. Is it not

possible for you to let go of something when you are wrong?

>

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Morning,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > we have completed the 2nd round (our first on just DMSA,

> using

> > > 2.5 mg

> > > > > > > for a 40 lb boy). He did fine on the round, no big

> differences

> > > either

> > > > > > > way. However, we're now 2 days post and he is an emotional

> > > mess! He

> > > > > > > cries at the drop of a needle! Like if my husband goes

> > > upstairs to

> > > > > get

> > > > > > > dressed before taking him to daycare - he's in tears " I miss

> > > daddy! "

> > > > > > > Same thing at daycare - cries on and off all day long...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > His sleep has also gotten SO much worse... Like 10 times

> worse. He

> > > > > > > can't fall asleep on his own. We have to stay in the room. He

> > > > > wakes up

> > > > > > > constantly and now we HAVE to either sleep with him or bring

> > > him to

> > > > > > > our bedroom and let him sleep with us. But he cries even in

> > > his sleep!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I put him on GSE, followed by charcoal... thinking yeast?

> What are

> > > > > > > your thoughts, guys? The DMSA dose that we used was so small,

> > > I can't

> > > > > > > believe it is due to that?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Should we just stick with it and hope that with each round his

> > > > > > > symptoms will lessen little by little? Another round is

> coming

> > > up in

> > > > > > > less than 2 days (we start each round mid-Fr and go until Mon

> > > morning)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

March 15, 2010

,

The child in this case weighs 40 pounds. Giving him 1 mg equals 1/40 of a mg

per pound.

And, it's true, when people like you present false information in personal

emails, I have no need to be diplomatic with you.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Morning,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > we have completed the 2nd round (our first on just DMSA,

> > using

> > > > 2.5 mg

> > > > > > > > for a 40 lb boy). He did fine on the round, no big

> > differences

> > > > either

> > > > > > > > way. However, we're now 2 days post and he is an emotional

> > > > mess! He

> > > > > > > > cries at the drop of a needle! Like if my husband goes

> > > > upstairs to

> > > > > > get

> > > > > > > > dressed before taking him to daycare - he's in tears " I miss

> > > > daddy! "

> > > > > > > > Same thing at daycare - cries on and off all day long...

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > His sleep has also gotten SO much worse... Like 10 times

> > worse. He

> > > > > > > > can't fall asleep on his own. We have to stay in the room. He

> > > > > > wakes up

> > > > > > > > constantly and now we HAVE to either sleep with him or bring

> > > > him to

> > > > > > > > our bedroom and let him sleep with us. But he cries even in

> > > > his sleep!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I put him on GSE, followed by charcoal... thinking yeast?

> > What are

> > > > > > > > your thoughts, guys? The DMSA dose that we used was so small,

> > > > I can't

> > > > > > > > believe it is due to that?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Should we just stick with it and hope that with each round his

> > > > > > > > symptoms will lessen little by little? Another round is

> > coming

> > > > up in

> > > > > > > > less than 2 days (we start each round mid-Fr and go until Mon

> > > > morning)

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

March 16, 2010

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>

> ,

> For someone who pretends to be all-knowing regarding what Dr Cutler

> says, one would think you would recognize the words I quoted from

> Andy's protocol.

>

Oh, I recognize them alright. What I was pointing out is that YOU need

to backup your quotes for people here. Andy has said many times that he

does not want to be quoted without a reference to a post. So be a good

sport and just do it.

>

> Am I a bully for quoting Andy or for pointing out that you don't have

> a clue what you're talking about?

>

You are a bully in your general demeanor. Especially in private emails,

as we all now know.

> 1/40 is waaaay below what Andy says you need at 1/8,

>

Nope. And I said 1/30, not 1/40. Please get it right.

> . If a doctor told you to 5 parts of a medicine to knock out an

> infection, would you be safe and only take one part? I don't think you

> would do that .

>

You really don't seem to get it. The SAME " doctor " in this case says

it's OK to take 1, 5 or 20 parts, because the " doctor " , unlike you,

understands that everyone's body and reactions to medicine are different.

Honestly, your obsession with this small point is puzzling. Is it not

possible for you to let go of something when you are wrong?

>

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Morning,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > we have completed the 2nd round (our first on just DMSA,

> using

> > > 2.5 mg

> > > > > > > for a 40 lb boy). He did fine on the round, no big

> differences

> > > either

> > > > > > > way. However, we're now 2 days post and he is an emotional

> > > mess! He

> > > > > > > cries at the drop of a needle! Like if my husband goes

> > > upstairs to

> > > > > get

> > > > > > > dressed before taking him to daycare - he's in tears " I miss

> > > daddy! "

> > > > > > > Same thing at daycare - cries on and off all day long...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > His sleep has also gotten SO much worse... Like 10 times

> worse. He

> > > > > > > can't fall asleep on his own. We have to stay in the room. He

> > > > > wakes up

> > > > > > > constantly and now we HAVE to either sleep with him or bring

> > > him to

> > > > > > > our bedroom and let him sleep with us. But he cries even in

> > > his sleep!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I put him on GSE, followed by charcoal... thinking yeast?

> What are

> > > > > > > your thoughts, guys? The DMSA dose that we used was so small,

> > > I can't

> > > > > > > believe it is due to that?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Should we just stick with it and hope that with each round his

> > > > > > > symptoms will lessen little by little? Another round is

> coming

> > > up in

> > > > > > > less than 2 days (we start each round mid-Fr and go until Mon

> > > morning)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

------------------------------------

=======================================================

March 16, 2010

, Part of the problem might be the use of fractions rather than

decimalizing the dosages. So converting 1/8 mg to .125 and 1/2 mg to

..50 would mean that there is a .375 difference between the minimum and

the maximum, or a 75% difference between the two. So, for a 40 lb child

that can be anywhere from 5 mg to 20 mg.

I hope that helps.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Morning,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > we have completed the 2nd round (our first on just DMSA,

using

> > 2.5 mg

> > > > > > for a 40 lb boy). He did fine on the round, no big

differences

> > either

> > > > > > way. However, we're now 2 days post and he is an emotional

> > mess! He

> > > > > > cries at the drop of a needle! Like if my husband goes

> > upstairs to

> > > > get

> > > > > > dressed before taking him to daycare - he's in tears " I miss

> > daddy! "

> > > > > > Same thing at daycare - cries on and off all day long...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > His sleep has also gotten SO much worse... Like 10 times

worse. He

> > > > > > can't fall asleep on his own. We have to stay in the room.

He

> > > > wakes up

> > > > > > constantly and now we HAVE to either sleep with him or bring

> > him to

> > > > > > our bedroom and let him sleep with us. But he cries even in

> > his sleep!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I put him on GSE, followed by charcoal... thinking yeast?

What are

> > > > > > your thoughts, guys? The DMSA dose that we used was so

small,

> > I can't

> > > > > > believe it is due to that?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Should we just stick with it and hope that with each round

his

> > > > > > symptoms will lessen little by little? Another round is

coming

> > up in

> > > > > > less than 2 days (we start each round mid-Fr and go until

Mon

> > morning)

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

March 16, 2010

Hopefully you have gotten some of the answers you need but I just wanted to add

that we are on round 6 and we had the same symptoms as you are explaining with

our son being depressed, crying, then aggressive at times, then happy again only

on 2.5 mg every 4 hours and he is 50 lbs. In the first few rounds we tried GSE

because we thought yeast as well and it didn't help. The past two rounds I have

used only charcoal on a daily basis for on and off days and it has really helped

his moods. His naturopath, whom we see on and off, said that his body is having

a very hard time detoxing and that charcoal on a daily basis might help with

that and it definitely has. I know you said you give your child charcoal I

wasn't sure if you did it daily or not without the GSE. Just my 2 cents.

Sandy

>

> Morning,

>

> we have completed the 2nd round (our first on just DMSA, using 2.5 mg for a 40

lb boy). He did fine on the round, no big differences either way. However, we're

now 2 days post and he is an emotional mess! He cries at the drop of a needle!

Like if my husband goes upstairs to get dressed before taking him to daycare -

he's in tears " I miss daddy! " Same thing at daycare - cries on and off all day

long...

>

> His sleep has also gotten SO much worse... Like 10 times worse. He can't fall

asleep on his own. We have to stay in the room. He wakes up constantly and now

we HAVE to either sleep with him or bring him to our bedroom and let him sleep

with us. But he cries even in his sleep!

>

> I put him on GSE, followed by charcoal... thinking yeast? What are your

thoughts, guys? The DMSA dose that we used was so small, I can't believe it is

due to that?

>

> Should we just stick with it and hope that with each round his symptoms will

lessen little by little? Another round is coming up in less than 2 days (we

start each round mid-Fr and go until Mon morning)

>

March 16, 2010

Hi Sandy,

we did our 3rd round using just ALA but a tiny dose (1 mg every 3 hours). He is

still pretty emotional. He cries easily and gets upset over nothing... So I have

been giving him charcoal but only on OFF days... I guess I am not sure how to

best dose charcoal on ON days so it doesn't wipe out ALA...

I agree that it seems that with charcoal he is a bit calmer... a tiny bit less

emotional. I am still keeping him on GSE and upping his dose slowly (we're up to

a 1/2 drop in the morning and a drop at night)... Keep me posted on how your boy

is doing and I will certainly post if anything major develops here. How much

charcoal do you give, by the way?

We plan to do our next (4th) round doing just ALA this Friday and going up to

probably 2 mg. He is 40 lbs. My goal is to get him comfortably to 2.5 mg and

stay there for a while to make sure he's adjusted. We also took him off Enhensa.

Good luck!

Lena

________________________________

From: sandybwalker <sandybwalker@...>

Sent: Tue, March 16, 2010 2:58:06 PM