Re: Re Statistics on chelation

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/10/2010 09:20:15 GMT Daylight Time, dmsnv@...

writes:

1. For how many years you chelating, how many rounds you did? 4 YEARS 135

ROUNDS

2. What protocol do you follow? CUTLER

3. What agents do you use? DMSA, ALA, SOME DMPS

4. What is the child's age? 5.5 AT START, 13 NOW

5. What was the child's ATEC score before starting chelation and now?

START 142 NOW 39

6. What is the child's primary diagnosis? REGRESSIVE AUTISM, 47XYY

[Guest guest]

Hello,

 

I wonder if there is any statistics on chelation avialable. I am interested

mainly in information on IV and ACP chelation methods. If anyone could refer me

to the source of information on DAN! statistics on IV chelation, I would really

appreciate it. As for the AC chlation method, I would  like to ask parents on

this list, please, if you could kindly share the following info with me:

 

1. For how many years you chelating, how many rounds you did?

2. What protocol do you follow?

3. What agents do you use?

4. What is the child's age?

5. What was the child's ATEC score before starting chelation and now?

6. What is the child's primary diagnosis?

 

I hope that everybody understands the reason of my interest. There are several

ways to go, and I am in process of making decision about which one to go.

 

I hope that listmates will answer my questions and deeply appreciate replies in

advance.

 

Sincerely,

Asem

 

 

From: andrewhallcutler <AndyCutler@...>

Subject: [ ] Re: IV Chelation for 6 year old

Date: Saturday, October 9, 2010, 7:57 PM

 

>

> We just started weekly IV treatments for our 6 year old son. He has had 3

chelation treatments so far....

Stop them now.

>I am wondering if this treatment would cause yeast initially?

And later. And forever. It can cause lots of horrid long lasting problems. For

typical results, see www.dmpsbackfire.com.

>Our son is usually a great sleeper - always has been... 7pm to 6am.... but over

the past 3 weeks he has been waking up for several hours almost every night. It

seems that he has some yeast issues, since he has been very giggly- - and even

though i can tell he tries to keep it in - he bursts out with giggles --and

usually has gas along with it (from both ends)....

>

> I don't know anyone else who is doing IV chelation

Probably because a lot of people have learned not to let doctors hurt their kids

for money.

First a doctor charged you money to make him autistic with vaccines.

Now a different doctor is charging you money to make him worse with iv

chelation.

>and could really use some advice. I am hopeful that the change in behavior is a

sign that the chelation treatments are working

They're a sign you are hurting your kid. Stop before it is permanent.

>and stirring things up and pulling the bad stuff out of his body -

>

> but I guess I need a little reassurance that we made the right decision to

chelate.

Chelation is the right decision.

How you are doing it is the wrong decision.

> I know we have a long road ahead of us

It's going to get a lot longer and more difficult if you don't stop the IV

chelation and start doing it right ASAP!

> and it's early right now... but we are going to do whatever we have to do to

recover our son...

Then start the every 3-4 hour ALA chelation protocol other people here are

using.

>He has made tremendous improvements over the past 3 years (with help from DAN

physician, supplements, school, etc.)...but we want him back in our world and

will keep fighting until we get him.

Well, you have to avoid doing dramatic things like iv chelation that might make

it impossible for you to do that.

> Thanks for any advice...

> appreciate it.

> Jo-Ann

>

Andy

http://www.noamalgam.com/index.html

Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment

http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html

Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities

http://www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html

Nourishing Hope for Autism: Nutrition Intervention for Healing Our Children

http://www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html

Biological Treatments for Autism and PDD

[Guest guest]

There are no DAN statistics on IV chelation and if there were they would be

fudged because people whose kids regress on IV chelation stop seeing the DAN and

look for people like Andy. I am one of them. I would urge you to not even

consider IV chelation. I have been following a number of over the

past two years and the only full (no supplements, no special diets) recovery

stories seem to be kids on the AC protocol.

We have chelated using IV (only a few times), suppositories (maybe 15 of them)

and AC protocol, slowly, for the last 18 months. The only gains have been

during the AC protocol period. Thank you Andy!

Jo

Chelating myself (R#35, 25mg ALA/40mg DMPS) and

11 yo son, R#27, 5mg DMSA/15mg ALA. Asperger/ADD d/x at age 9. No r/x meds

needed, mainstream school w/o support, much progress socially and physically.

7 yo son, R#23, 16mg ALA (sometimes + 10mg DMPS). No official d/x, very high

mercury toxicity and associated symptoms incl. speech issues, viral issues,

inability to tan, sleep problems. No longer has sensory issues, much improved

fine and gross motor, gained imaginary play skills, sleeps well.

3 yo son, R#16, 8mg ALA. Bad vaccine reaction-developed " mito " issues, late

walker/talker. Now very social, excellent eye contact, neurotypical.

>

>

> Hello,

>  

> I wonder if there is any statistics on chelation avialable. I am interested

mainly in information on IV and ACP chelation methods. If anyone could refer me

to the source of information on DAN! statistics on IV chelation, I would really

appreciate it. As for the AC chlation method, I would  like to ask parents on

this list, please, if you could kindly share the following info with me:

>  

> 1. For how many years you chelating, how many rounds you did?

> 2. What protocol do you follow?

> 3. What agents do you use?

> 4. What is the child's age?

> 5. What was the child's ATEC score before starting chelation and now?

> 6. What is the child's primary diagnosis?

>  

> I hope that everybody understands the reason of my interest. There are several

ways to go, and I am in process of making decision about which one to go.

>  

> I hope that listmates will answer my questions and deeply appreciate replies

in advance.

>  

> Sincerely,

> Asem

[Guest guest]

We did IV and saw reactions after seven months and then stopped and then

went back to do EDTA only due to rise in lead levels. Again he had an

asthmatic reaction. He sis seem better while on the chelation, but now we

are paying the price. Now he has regressed in many areas. His stimming now

off the chart. I would only do the AC Protocol when we decided to start

again.

[Guest guest]

What is the ATEC score?

[Guest guest]

http://www.autism.mobi/atec.html

 

From: Haven DeLay <hdelay@...>

Subject: Re: [ ] Re Statistics on chelation

Date: Sunday, October 10, 2010, 10:34 AM

 

What is the ATEC score?

[Guest guest]

This information is already well known and well established for both adults and

children, using a much larger pool of information than this single listserver.

> I wonder if there is any statistics on chelation avialable. I am interested

mainly in information on IV and ACP chelation methods. If anyone could refer me

to the source of information on DAN! statistics on IV chelation, I would really

appreciate it.

1 in 6 end up permanently horribly worse as described for adults at

dmpsbackfire.com.

Of the other 5, very few improve.

I don't blame DAN! for iv chelation, I don't think they've ever promoted that as

an organization though some of their doctors do it.

>As for the AC chlation method,

You will find some of this information already in the polls section. Did you

check that first?

>I would like to ask parents on this list, please, if you could kindly share

the following info with me:

> Â

> 1. For how many years you chelating, how many rounds you did?

> 2. What protocol do you follow?

> 3. What agents do you use?

> 4. What is the child's age?

> 5. What was the child's ATEC score before starting chelation and now?

> 6. What is the child's primary diagnosis?

> Â

> I hope that everybody understands the reason of my interest.

Yes. You are clueless about decision making and have no research experience.

Gathering the data you are asking for is a long and difficult process, and

analyzing it is surprisingly fraught with difficulty. Presuming you have

multiple PhD's, lots of research experience, and several years to spend making

the decision you might get there this way. These btw are all questions I am

intensely interested in and do make some efforts to gather data on.

You actually have to make a decision the way almost all decisions are made in

real life - without the academic fantasy of perfect data that makes it totally

obvious without any real thought about what to do.

If you can focus your questions to more relevant and meaningful ones I may be

able to provide some useful information - some of which actually does have

statistics associated with it.

BTW, you seem not to understand sample bias. Most of the people whose kids are

better aren't on the list to answer 'how long did it take,' so you'll get a

longer answer than the actual average the way you're doing it.

>There are several ways to go, and I am in process of making decision about

which one to go.

Enumerating the choices is the first step towards rational decisionmaking. Why

not do that for us?

You also apparently have skipped the most important step of all - considering

whether the choices you are analyzing are the right ones to select among.

> I hope that listmates will answer my questions

This is a lot more likely if you create a poll in the polls section. Then if you

don't get enough statistics right away you can check back later and see if new

people answered them.

> and deeply appreciate replies in advance.

> Â

> Sincerely,

> Asem

Andy

http://www.noamalgam.com/index.html

Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment

http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html

Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities

http://www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html

Nourishing Hope for Autism: Nutrition Intervention for Healing Our Children

http://www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html

Biological Treatments for Autism and PDD

[Guest guest]

At least some DAN! doctors who speak on this at conferences deny the reports by

parents that their children got worse on chelation, and claim they have never

had such reports or experiences.

When the doctor says one thing and the parent says another, I'm inclined to

believe the parent. When it is one report, or maybe two, I do understand the

parent may be nuts, or confused, or not reporting accurately on what happened.

However in some cases a lot more than 1 or 2 parents are involved in reporting a

specific doctor wreaked havoc - and that doctor continues to report that he's

never seen a problem in his conference presentations.

So yes I think it is very wise that Assam is asking PARENTS for what happened!

That's the data I rely on - what parents say happened to their kids, or what

adults say happened to themselves.

Andy

http://www.noamalgam.com/index.html

Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment

http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html

Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities

http://www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html

Nourishing Hope for Autism: Nutrition Intervention for Healing Our Children

http://www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html

Biological Treatments for Autism and PDD

> >

> >

> > Hello,

> > Â

> > I wonder if there is any statistics on chelation avialable. I am interested

mainly in information on IV and ACP chelation methods. If anyone could refer me

to the source of information on DAN! statistics on IV chelation, I would really

appreciate it. As for the AC chlation method, I would like to ask parents on

this list, please, if you could kindly share the following info with me:

> > Â

> > 1. For how many years you chelating, how many rounds you did?

> > 2. What protocol do you follow?

> > 3. What agents do you use?

> > 4. What is the child's age?

> > 5. What was the child's ATEC score before starting chelation and now?

> > 6. What is the child's primary diagnosis?

> > Â

> > I hope that everybody understands the reason of my interest. There are

several ways to go, and I am in process of making decision about which one to

go.

> > Â

> > I hope that listmates will answer my questions and deeply appreciate replies

in advance.

> > Â

> > Sincerely,

> > Asem

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Andy,

 

Thanks for your input and support! Your books and Dana's site provide the most

valuable, detailed  information, and I heard PARENTS saying that they saved

their children with your guys quidance.

 

Thanks for everything!

 

Sincerely,

Asem

 

From: andrewhallcutler <AndyCutler@...>

Subject: [ ] Re: Re Statistics on chelation

Date: Sunday, October 10, 2010, 7:49 PM

 

At least some DAN! doctors who speak on this at conferences deny the reports by

parents that their children got worse on chelation, and claim they have never

had such reports or experiences.

When the doctor says one thing and the parent says another, I'm inclined to

believe the parent. When it is one report, or maybe two, I do understand the

parent may be nuts, or confused, or not reporting accurately on what happened.

However in some cases a lot more than 1 or 2 parents are involved in reporting a

specific doctor wreaked havoc - and that doctor continues to report that he's

never seen a problem in his conference presentations.

So yes I think it is very wise that Assam is asking PARENTS for what happened!

That's the data I rely on - what parents say happened to their kids, or what

adults say happened to themselves.

Andy

http://www.noamalgam.com/index.html

Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment

http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html

Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities

http://www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html

Nourishing Hope for Autism: Nutrition Intervention for Healing Our Children

http://www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html

Biological Treatments for Autism and PDD

> >

> >

> > Hello,

> > Â

> > I wonder if there is any statistics on chelation avialable. I am interested

mainly in information on IV and ACP chelation methods. If anyone could refer me

to the source of information on DAN! statistics on IV chelation, I would really

appreciate it. As for the AC chlation method, I would like to ask parents on

this list, please, if you could kindly share the following info with me:

> > Â

> > 1. For how many years you chelating, how many rounds you did?

> > 2. What protocol do you follow?

> > 3. What agents do you use?

> > 4. What is the child's age?

> > 5. What was the child's ATEC score before starting chelation and now?

> > 6. What is the child's primary diagnosis?

> > Â

> > I hope that everybody understands the reason of my interest. There are

several ways to go, and I am in process of making decision about which one to

go.

> > Â

> > I hope that listmates will answer my questions and deeply appreciate replies

in advance.

> > Â

> > Sincerely,

> > Asem

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Andy,

 

Thanks for the numbers on DAN! protocol! I think everyone would agree, that if

there is any chance to harm the child, then the parent would think twice

before starting a treatment. We arelady got into that " ASD percentage " , so why

challenge it again?

 

While not receiving too many answers to my questions, I felt a bit ashamed.

People are busy treating their kids, I thought and here I am with my very basic

questions. But for me it's important to hear from other parents, and I very

appreciate those encouraging  (in terms of ACP) replies that I received. I do

not have any scientifical background, and my way of learning is just to ask

those who already are experienced. Unfortunately, I do not have brain to learn

biochemistry, and chelating my child seems to be a very complex thing to me

which I have to do without deep knowledge of every possible response from his

body.

 

No negative replies on ACP so far, maybe because the information and discussion

here is so helpful!

 

Thanks a lot,

Sincerely,

Asem

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: andrewhallcutler <AndyCutler@...>

Subject: [ ] Re: Re Statistics on chelation

Date: Sunday, October 10, 2010, 7:21 PM

 

This information is already well known and well established for both adults and

children, using a much larger pool of information than this single listserver.

> I wonder if there is any statistics on chelation avialable. I am interested

mainly in information on IV and ACP chelation methods. If anyone could refer me

to the source of information on DAN! statistics on IV chelation, I would really

appreciate it.

1 in 6 end up permanently horribly worse as described for adults at

dmpsbackfire.com.

Of the other 5, very few improve.

I don't blame DAN! for iv chelation, I don't think they've ever promoted that as

an organization though some of their doctors do it.

>As for the AC chlation method,

You will find some of this information already in the polls section. Did you

check that first?

>I would like to ask parents on this list, please, if you could kindly share

the following info with me:

> Â

> 1. For how many years you chelating, how many rounds you did?

> 2. What protocol do you follow?

> 3. What agents do you use?

> 4. What is the child's age?

> 5. What was the child's ATEC score before starting chelation and now?

> 6. What is the child's primary diagnosis?

> Â

> I hope that everybody understands the reason of my interest.

Yes. You are clueless about decision making and have no research experience.

Gathering the data you are asking for is a long and difficult process, and

analyzing it is surprisingly fraught with difficulty. Presuming you have

multiple PhD's, lots of research experience, and several years to spend making

the decision you might get there this way. These btw are all questions I am

intensely interested in and do make some efforts to gather data on.

You actually have to make a decision the way almost all decisions are made in

real life - without the academic fantasy of perfect data that makes it totally

obvious without any real thought about what to do.

If you can focus your questions to more relevant and meaningful ones I may be

able to provide some useful information - some of which actually does have

statistics associated with it.

BTW, you seem not to understand sample bias. Most of the people whose kids are

better aren't on the list to answer 'how long did it take,' so you'll get a

longer answer than the actual average the way you're doing it.

>There are several ways to go, and I am in process of making decision about

which one to go.

Enumerating the choices is the first step towards rational decisionmaking. Why

not do that for us?

You also apparently have skipped the most important step of all - considering

whether the choices you are analyzing are the right ones to select among.

> I hope that listmates will answer my questions

This is a lot more likely if you create a poll in the polls section. Then if you

don't get enough statistics right away you can check back later and see if new

people answered them.

> and deeply appreciate replies in advance.

> Â

> Sincerely,

> Asem

Andy

http://www.noamalgam.com/index.html

Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment

http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html

Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities

http://www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html

Nourishing Hope for Autism: Nutrition Intervention for Healing Our Children

http://www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html

Biological Treatments for Autism and PDD

[Guest guest]

1. 1.5 years

2. Andy Cutler protocol. We never messed with challenge tests and such, and

fired both DAN doctors who suggested them. We see a holistic MD/homeopath now

once in awhile, for anything we may need. She is a partner helping us.

3. ALA

4.7.5 years old

5. Initial ATEC: 65

Current ATEC: 11

6. " Asperger Syndrome - severe, presenting as regressive autism (late - post age

3), child has normal to above average intelligence, and maintains minor verbal

ability (one to two words). "

From the dx form faxed from his diagnosing doctor to our family doctor.

AC chelation is the best way to go.

Autism really has no effect on our lives anymore.

> >

> > We just started weekly IV treatments for our 6 year old son. He has had 3

chelation treatments so far....

>

> Stop them now.

>

> >I am wondering if this treatment would cause yeast initially?

>

> And later. And forever. It can cause lots of horrid long lasting problems. For

typical results, see www.dmpsbackfire.com.

>

> >Our son is usually a great sleeper - always has been... 7pm to 6am.... but

over the past 3 weeks he has been waking up for several hours almost every

night. It seems that he has some yeast issues, since he has been very giggly- -

and even though i can tell he tries to keep it in - he bursts out with giggles

--and usually has gas along with it (from both ends)....

> >

> > I don't know anyone else who is doing IV chelation

>

> Probably because a lot of people have learned not to let doctors hurt their

kids for money.

>

> First a doctor charged you money to make him autistic with vaccines.

>

> Now a different doctor is charging you money to make him worse with iv

chelation.

>

> >and could really use some advice. I am hopeful that the change in behavior is

a sign that the chelation treatments are working

>

> They're a sign you are hurting your kid. Stop before it is permanent.

>

> >and stirring things up and pulling the bad stuff out of his body -

> >

> > but I guess I need a little reassurance that we made the right decision to

chelate.

>

> Chelation is the right decision.

>

> How you are doing it is the wrong decision.

>

> > I know we have a long road ahead of us

>

> It's going to get a lot longer and more difficult if you don't stop the IV

chelation and start doing it right ASAP!

>

> > and it's early right now... but we are going to do whatever we have to do to

recover our son...

>

> Then start the every 3-4 hour ALA chelation protocol other people here are

using.

>

> >He has made tremendous improvements over the past 3 years (with help from DAN

physician, supplements, school, etc.)...but we want him back in our world and

will keep fighting until we get him.

>

> Well, you have to avoid doing dramatic things like iv chelation that might

make it impossible for you to do that.

>

> > Thanks for any advice...

> > appreciate it.

> > Jo-Ann

> >

> Andy

>

> http://www.noamalgam.com/index.html

> Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment

>

> http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html

> Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities

>

> http://www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html

> Nourishing Hope for Autism: Nutrition Intervention for Healing Our Children

>

> http://www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html

> Biological Treatments for Autism and PDD

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

1. 2 1/2 years, 50 rounds

2. Cutler protocol

3. ALA/DMSA/DMPS

4. 8 years

5. Can't remember where that old ATEC is, currently doing video diary that I

would highly suggest to others.

6. Autism

> >

> > We just started weekly IV treatments for our 6 year old son. He has had 3

chelation treatments so far....

>

> Stop them now.

>

> >I am wondering if this treatment would cause yeast initially?

>

> And later. And forever. It can cause lots of horrid long lasting problems. For

typical results, see www.dmpsbackfire.com.

>

> >Our son is usually a great sleeper - always has been... 7pm to 6am.... but

over the past 3 weeks he has been waking up for several hours almost every

night. It seems that he has some yeast issues, since he has been very giggly- -

and even though i can tell he tries to keep it in - he bursts out with giggles

--and usually has gas along with it (from both ends)....

> >

> > I don't know anyone else who is doing IV chelation

>

> Probably because a lot of people have learned not to let doctors hurt their

kids for money.

>

> First a doctor charged you money to make him autistic with vaccines.

>

> Now a different doctor is charging you money to make him worse with iv

chelation.

>

> >and could really use some advice. I am hopeful that the change in behavior is

a sign that the chelation treatments are working

>

> They're a sign you are hurting your kid. Stop before it is permanent.

>

> >and stirring things up and pulling the bad stuff out of his body -

> >

> > but I guess I need a little reassurance that we made the right decision to

chelate.

>

> Chelation is the right decision.

>

> How you are doing it is the wrong decision.

>

> > I know we have a long road ahead of us

>

> It's going to get a lot longer and more difficult if you don't stop the IV

chelation and start doing it right ASAP!

>

> > and it's early right now... but we are going to do whatever we have to do to

recover our son...

>

> Then start the every 3-4 hour ALA chelation protocol other people here are

using.

>

> >He has made tremendous improvements over the past 3 years (with help from DAN

physician, supplements, school, etc.)...but we want him back in our world and

will keep fighting until we get him.

>

> Well, you have to avoid doing dramatic things like iv chelation that might

make it impossible for you to do that.

>

> > Thanks for any advice...

> > appreciate it.

> > Jo-Ann

> >

> Andy

>

> http://www.noamalgam.com/index.html

> Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment

>

> http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html

> Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities

>

> http://www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html

> Nourishing Hope for Autism: Nutrition Intervention for Healing Our Children

>

> http://www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html

> Biological Treatments for Autism and PDD

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>