Magnesium Stearate

January 4, 2006

Pardon my foggy brain, but where did it say mag stearate from a veg source is

okay or not

as bad as " regular " magnesium stearate? It was my understanding that stearate

is a fatty

substance that inhibits absorption of nutritional supplements. It's just used

during the

manufacturing to help keep the machinery from getting clogged.

d.

> >

> > found this.

> > http://64.233.161.104/search?

> q=cache:T3WBqBLN7Q4J:www.thorne.com/pdf/literature/quality_control.pdf+%

> 22magnesium+stearate%22+excipient+adverse+supplement & hl=tr

> >

> > also would like to add that if magnesium stearate used is stated as

> vegetable source I am fine with the supplement.

> > best wishes

> > nil

>

January 4, 2006

Thanks for asking that. I had not thought on this in detail.I did not read

anywhere that vegetable source was okay. it was my personal experience that

I did not notice any noticeable problems with vegetable source. After you

asked this question I thought about this a bit more It could be that there

are multiple problems related to this subject like absorption

problems,intolerance,immune problems,etc and it could be that products that

are vegetable source is eliminating some of them.It could be that with

vegetable source I don't have the intolerance problem but there may still be

some absorption problems existing. That is hard to notice.To tell you the

truth even though I did not notice brain fog with vegetable source,I still

had a feeling that I was feeling more well with products that contained no

magnesium stearate like Pure encap.This may be due to higher absorption

rate. Of course individual body chemistries are also important.I may not

tolerate mag stearate but another person may. But it seems to me after this

discussion that there at least is absorption problems existing for all even

for normal people.Best wishes and thanks.

nil

Re: Magnesium stearate

> Pardon my foggy brain, but where did it say mag stearate from a veg source

> is okay or not

> as bad as " regular " magnesium stearate? It was my understanding that

> stearate is a fatty

> substance that inhibits absorption of nutritional supplements. It's just

> used during the

> manufacturing to help keep the machinery from getting clogged.

>

January 5, 2006

After doing some research, I think the only issue is the possible decrease

of bioavailability of the active ingerdients; I don't see any evidence that

it is toxic or immunosuppressive as some have claimed - at least not at the

minute levels in the supplements.

January 5, 2006

Well, here is the response I rec'd from a well-known and respected

supplement company with respect to the recent negative thread on mag stearate.

This

again confirms my suspicion that many of us (but not all), out of desperation,

are so wanting to simplify our plight by blaming our struggle all on one

thing so we can move on with our lives, but it invariably turns out that it's

simply not the case:

" Hello,

Thank you for your inquiry. We are aware that Thorne Research claims that

their supplements are superior to everyone else's because they do not use

magnesium stearate. We do not agree that the absence of magnesium stearate makes

a significant difference. Please consider the following points:

For over 25 years, we have heard and continue to hear from doctors using our

products that their severely allergic patients, very often with compromised

digestive systems, receive great benefit from our supplements. There is no

consistent clinical evidence that magnesium stearate interferes in any

substantial way with absorption, even in digestively compromised people. Much

more

likely to cause problems are substances containing allergens, which we (and

Thorne, to their credit) strive to eliminate as much as possible.

Rate of dissolution in in vitro tests (such as those in the links you sent)

may bear little relevance to what goes on in the living gut. When you eat a

meal, with fats, carbohydrates and proteins, these mix together in the stomach

and small intestine, and our digestive systems are designed to absorb what

it needs from the mixture. Here we are talking about using a very small amount

of basic nutrients as lubrication agents. Itâ€™s orthomolecular and works fine

for most people.

Another example: Our original micronized DHEA and Pregnenolone tablets were

particle-coated with saturated fatty acids. They certainly had a greatly

decreased percentage of immediate dissolution compared to encapsulated powdered

DHEA and Pregnenolone, yet they were greatly preferred by physicians who saw

much better results than when using regular capsules. We can only speculate

about the mechanisms involved, but the clinical observations were clear and

consistent.

We also don't believe there will be any problems of increased sensitivity.

The fatty acids that comprise magnesium stearate are stearic acid and palmitic

acid. These are ingested daily from food sources in a typical diet, and are

found in body structures. For instance, magnesium palmitate, a magnesium

salt of a 16 carbon saturated fatty acid, is found in membrane structures. We

are

not aware of any possible concern, and of no evidence, that the ingestion of

magnesium stearate in nutritional supplements could lead to the problems

you theoretically describe.

Our magnesium stearate is derived from vegetable sources. Typically, about

1% of the capsule content is magnesium stearate. Thorne uses aspartic acid,

leucine and some other excipients which are NOT inactive ingredients.

Increasing aspartic acid, for instance, which we know can stimulate NMDA

receptors,

would be of much more concern to us. "

January 5, 2006

I don't know why magnesium stearate gives some people problems, but

I believe you.

Rich

Rich,

This conversation confirms something I'd been suspecting. Anyone who has had an

organic acids test probably has a 'stearic' reading on it. Mine was very high.

You had commented about it being related to consuming meat I think (I consume

little) and I had wondered/figured even then that the magnesium stearate and the

stearic acid I see on so many of my supplement bottles might be causing this. I

think it is. We also determined from my fatty acid profile that I can't break

down my fats properly either, which also sounds like its all related. I'm

wondering now as well if the mag stearate/steraric acid might reflect in my high

cholesterol reading? I've changed my diet and exercise more and the reading

didn't come down. I take as many supplements as ever. So I'm going to have to

watch this and also avoid as many as possible with stearic acid/mag stearate.

The ones I take that are more fat soluble/gel cap types have soybean oil/soy in

them and I'm not 'thrilled' about 'that' either. So now I am going to look into

getting some Sparx, being a powder, that should not have any of these things in

it, is that correct????

Marcia

January 6, 2006

This is very interesting, but personally I am still concerned. Because I checked

my Organic acids tests again and it shows I'm way too high in both stearic acid

and Palmitic acid too! As Rich mentioned, some of us can not break down our

fats, so it could be a problem for us. I think if one takes as many supplements

as we do, this could build up to high enough proportions for concern. It may be

'no big deal' if a person only took 2 or 3 pills a day, but it takes more like

10 or 20 a day to keep most of us going, that would be a lot of mag

stearate/stearic acid. Anyone who has had an organic acids test can look it up

on their own to see if theirs is high or not.

Marcia

We also don't believe there will be any problems of increased sensitivity.

The fatty acids that comprise magnesium stearate are stearic acid and palmitic

acid. These are ingested daily from food sources in a typical diet, and are

found in body structures. For instance, magnesium palmitate, a magnesium

salt of a 16 carbon saturated fatty acid, is found in membrane structures. We

are

not aware of any possible concern, and of no evidence, that the ingestion of

magnesium stearate in nutritional supplements could lead to the problems

you theoretically describe.

January 6, 2006

Hi, Marcia.

It's correct that Sparx does not contain additives such as magnesium

stearate. Dave Gregg's philosophy in putting it together was to

shoehorn as much of the essential nutrients as he could into a

manageable sized portion, and he didn't add anything to improve the

taste or the way it dissolves, or anything else.

You might be right about getting a lot of stearic acid from

additives in your supplements. Magnesium stearate is not very

soluble in water, but if your stomach is producing acid as it

should, that would likely decompose it, so that the stearate could

be absorbed from the gut. It's possible that some magnesium

stearate could also reform in the gut, because the bicarbonate in

pancreatic juice raises the pH in the gut, compared to the stomach.

If it did reform, it would not be very soluble, and that fraction

would likely pass into the stools.

I don't know whether the stearate would affect your cholesterol

level.

Rich

>

> I don't know why magnesium stearate gives some people problems,

but

> I believe you.

>

> Rich

>

> Rich,

>

> This conversation confirms something I'd been suspecting. Anyone

who has had an organic acids test probably has a 'stearic' reading

on it. Mine was very high. You had commented about it being related

to consuming meat I think (I consume little) and I had

wondered/figured even then that the magnesium stearate and the

stearic acid I see on so many of my supplement bottles might be

causing this. I think it is. We also determined from my fatty acid

profile that I can't break down my fats properly either, which also

sounds like its all related. I'm wondering now as well if the mag

stearate/steraric acid might reflect in my high cholesterol

reading? I've changed my diet and exercise more and the reading

didn't come down. I take as many supplements as ever. So I'm going

to have to watch this and also avoid as many as possible with

stearic acid/mag stearate. The ones I take that are more fat

soluble/gel cap types have soybean oil/soy in them and I'm

not 'thrilled' about 'that' either. So now I am going to look into

getting some Sparx, being a powder, that should not have any of

these things in it, is that correct????

>

> Marcia

>

January 6, 2006

Hi Marcia,

>

> This is very interesting, but personally I am still concerned. Because

> I checked my Organic acids tests again and it shows I'm way too high

> in both stearic acid and Palmitic acid too! As Rich mentioned, some

> of us can not break down our fats, so it could be a problem for us. I

> think if one takes as many supplements as we do, this could build up

> to high enough proportions for concern. It may be 'no big deal' if a

> person only took 2 or 3 pills a day, but it takes more like 10 or 20 a

> day to keep most of us going, that would be a lot of mag

> stearate/stearic acid. Anyone who has had an organic acids test can

> look it up on their own to see if theirs is high or not.

>

> Marcia

I'm concerned, too.

I've checked out my daughter's Metametrix urine organic acids test and

I can't find any mention of stearic acid or palmitic acid. Was your

test from Metametrix? Were these acids listed under Fatty Acid

Metabolism?

Best,

Sue ,

Upstate New York

January 8, 2006

I'm concerned, too.

I've checked out my daughter's Metametrix urine organic acids test and

I can't find any mention of stearic acid or palmitic acid. Was your

test from Metametrix? Were these acids listed under Fatty Acid

Metabolism?

Hi Sue,

Its under fatty acids/plasma, under 'saturated'. Yes, mine was done by

Metametrix also. I had the whole " ION panel' done. maybe they test for more

things than the normal test? (no idea). Again, I think if we only took 2 or 3

pills a day with stearic acid/mag stearate it would not be enough to be a

problem, but its in so many of the ones I take that its got to piling up in my

system! My Swansons TMG does not have it and also my Kirkland Folinic acid does

not have it. Most the other supplements I take do have it. Even the Chorella

I've been taking one or two pills a day has it!

Marcia

April 14, 2007

>

> I have often heard that it is wise to avoid magnesium stearate in

> supplements, but I am not finding supplements that meet Bee's criteria

> and that do not have magnesium stearate. For example, a pharmacy here

> carries " Pure Encapsulations " brand which has no additives, but their

> niacin in all no-flush.

==>Yes it is wise to avoid magnesium stearate, but it is almost

impossible because companies use it to keep tablets and capsules from

sticking to their machinery. Usually the amount is minimal.

==>If they do not carry " true niacin " ask them to order it for you or

get it at another store or online.

Bee

April 15, 2007

I use Thorne Research brand and it has none of the bad ingredients.

Deb

June 23, 2007

Hi, in the " effects of diet on pain " thread someone named j mascis

brought it up and we talked about it there:

/message/116880

so I thought I would try to eliminate it from my diet as an

experiment but also find that will be difficult because of it being

in some of my supplements

I don't know the science behind why its bad but if you find some

info post some links here, I can google it too

Man, I am getting sick of everything being bad for ya, its like that

movie " safe " ; nowhere to hide....

>

> It has been extemely intertesting reading posts!!! I've tried to

find info/literature stating how magnesium stearate in vitamins, as a

filler, can negatively effect some individuals. (most of my vitamins

contain magnesium stearate). I tried to find the post again because

I don't understand why magnesium as a supplement is beneficial but

magnesium stearate can be a problem for some. If someone has info on

this topic I would greatly appreciate it if you can post it or send

it to me privately. I ironically recently purchased a vitamin that

said it was free of magnesium stearate so it must be a problem, I

just don't understand why. Thanks in advance!!! Mindy

>

June 23, 2007

In a message dated 06/23/07 2:05:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

mascis_j@... writes:

I don't think it would work without eliminating both dietary and

supplement sources.

I had done much research on this last year (see my excepts re-posted below).

I have come to the conclusion that it is virtually impossible to 100%

eliminate mag stearate/stearic acid from even a modest supplement or diet

regimen.

Believe me, I have already tried and was able to find replacement

supplements for about 75%, but still have 25% remaining that I want to keep

taking

because there are no alternatives for those particular supplements. So, at

least

we can decrease the exposure.

Another thing: ALL of the manufacturers who use m.s. vehemently defend it as

being completely benign as it is found commonly in foods (see Mercola's link

below on saturated fatty acids who actually says it's beneficial for the

heart). I have confronted both Jarrow Formulas, Metagenics, and Allergy

Research

Group on this very issue. I went so far as to point out some isolated

studies that showed m.s. may cause immunosuppression (see below).

==============================================================================

===========================

SENT 10-06 to DR. RON'S SITE:

I see that you specifically make mention of products that do not contain

magnesium stearate and stearic acid which is commonly added to most

supplements.

I am doing research to confirm the negative effects of these fatty acids,

specifically on the immune system and T-cells. Since you obviously have a

reason(s) why you exclude it from your supplements, please provide any

supporting

evidence with respect to this.

There seems to be arguments on both sides which make this topic confusing. I

see that you have a link to the Weston A Price foundation. The folks there

say that stearic acid is a good thing (and mag stearate is 4% magnesium and

96% stearic acid).

Stearic acid occurs naturally in meat and other animal foods. The problems

in synthesized stearic acid, as used in most supplements, are described in the

article on our website, which is referenced.

Also, from Dr. Mercola's site:

" Saturated 18-carbon stearic acid and 16-carbon palmitic acid are the

preferred foods for

the heart, which is why the fat around the heart muscle is highly

saturated.43 The heart

draws on this reserve of fat in times of stress. "

_http://www.mercola.com/2002/aug/21/saturated_fat2.htm_

(http://www.mercola.com/2002/aug/21/saturated_fat2.htm)

So, how do we come to any substantive conclusion? Could it be that the

research based on these substances' beneficial effects as found in certain

foods

and not when they're synthesized and isolated be the difference?

DR. RON'S REPLY:

" The isolation and use of the synthesized stearates is indeed the problem,

as described in the article on our web site.

Thanks for your interest in our products. "

==============================================================================

===========================

SENT 10-06 TO THIS LIST:

Since these fatty acids are commonly used as a filler/binder in just about

every supplement out there, I felt in necessary to bring this issue to light -

again.

At the beginning of this year there were several posts with respect to the

possibility of mag stearate and stearic acid being toxic, binding magnesium in

the gut, and causing immunosuppression. The result was that we came to no

conclusion since one study that supported its negative effects would be

challenegd by another that showed it to be beneficial. My gut instinct tells me

to

always err on the side of caution, and exclude the so-called positive research

especially when it comes directly from a supplement manufacturer that

markets their product containing these questionable chemicals when used as

pharmaceutical isolates and not when they're naturally occuring in nature. The

companies that tout the benefical qualities seem to be citing research based on

these substances' effects as found in certain foods like meat and not when

they're synthesized and isolated. The question is - could that be the

difference?

Therefore, I am bringing this topic back to express my concerns over the

distinct possibility that this substance which is used in 90% of all the

tableted and some encapsulated supplements could be damaging to our precious

immune

systems - T-cells, and specifically NK cell acitvity. Despite all the

boosters I take for improving NK cell function, my levels are still severely

depressed. While this is a complex issue involving a multitutde of exogenous

and

endogenous factors, all we can do is experiment and do a process of elimination

to see what works as well as what could be contributing or directly causing

this immunosuppression. I just found out after asking that just one of my many

supplements contains a whopping 8mg of mag stearate per tablet. That's huge

considering that I consume between 15-20 of those tablets per day. That's not

counting all the other ones whose amount is unknown. If mag stearate and/or

stearic acid is in fact toxic to T-cells (see the studies below), then think

about the multi-grams amounts I'm being exposed to over the months and years!

There is some evidence that this and related fatty acids can cause

immunosuppression. Here are just a few links. I probably could find more, but

this is

all I have right now:

_http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/ent

rez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=2379942 & dopt=Abstract_

(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=\

2379942 & dopt=Abstract)

_http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uid

s=9150243 & dopt=Citation_

(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=\

9150243 & dopt=Citation)

_http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/endo;142/8/3590_

(http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/endo;142/8/3590)

_http://www.drrons.com/beware-additives.htm_

(http://www.drrons.com/beware-additives.htm)

_http://www.hummelcroton.com/msds/mgstear_m.html_

(http://www.hummelcroton.com/msds/mgstear_m.html)

A respected firm like Metagenics has vehemently defended the use of mag

stearate in its products and cites studies to the contrary:

_http://www.metagenics.com/products/general_faqs.asp_

(http://www.metagenics.com/products/general_faqs.asp)

I welcome all input. This is a big issue!

==============================================================================

===========================

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

June 23, 2007

Here's the copy from the Metagenics website:

Excipients & Binders

Q: I noticed that some Metagenics products contain stearic acid. I was

reading a report that magnesium stearate suppresses the immune system through T

cell suppression. Is this true and should I be worried?

A: Stearic acid is a naturally occurring fat that is present in all of our

bodies. Some nutritional supplement manufacturers, however, would like you to

believe that stearic acid (or its salt, magnesium stearate) is a bad thing.

They've focused on one small ingredient and created widespread misconceptions

about its use and its effects on health. Most formulationsâ€”whether in tablet

or capsule formâ€”require some added ingredients to assist in manufacture. A

manufacturer of high quality nutritional supplements will ensure that

excipients, binders, or dilutents are derived from natural sources.

Stearic acid, for example, may be of a vegetable origin. Stearic acid enables

providers to manufacture tablets of uniform size, weight, texture, and shape

that help to ensure a pure, safe, and effective product. Both the Federal

Drug Administration (FDA) and the United States Pharmacopeia (USP) recommend

the use of stearic acid and magnesium stearate in the production of high

quality nutritional and pharmaceutical products. According to Vitkova and

Chalabala, " Magnesium stearate is the lubricant of choice in the production,

found in

up to 80% of all industrially produced tablets. " 1 It is important to note

that the levels of stearic acid found in Metagenics products are very

lowâ€”much

lower than the levels used in human studies surrounding stearic acid.

Your question regarding magnesium stearate and immune dysfunction comes up a

lot. While stearic acid is not considered a " beneficial " fat (such as those

found in cold-water fish and flaxseed), it has not been shown to contribute to

immune dysfunction in humans. In fact, most research documents just the

opposite effect:

1. Stearic acid is a normal constituent of the body and immune system,

including lymphocytes (a type of white blood cell) and red blood cells.

" Lecithin of leukemic lymphocytes contained more palmitinic acid and oleic

acid and a lower level of stearic acid than the same fraction in normal

lymphocytes. "

Bleiber R, Kunze D, Reichmann G, et al. Leukocyte lipids in mature cell

leukemia. Acta Haematol 1976;55(2):81-88.

" The fatty acid compositions of 1,2-diacylglycerol and polyphosphoinositides

have been determined in human erythrocyte membranes [red blood cells]â€¦it

appears that these plasma-membrane polyphosphoinositides and their derived

diacylglycerols are rich in stearic acid and arachidonic acid. "

Allan D, Cockcroft S. The fatty acid composition of 1,2-diacylglycerol and

polyphosphoinositides from human erythrocyte membranes. Biochem J

1983;213(2):555-57.

2. Stearic acid seems to activate components of the immune system (i.e.,

neutrophils) instead of suppress it.

" â€¦the polyunsaturated fatty acid arachidonic acid, the triglycerides

tricaproin, tricaprylin, and trilaurin as well as the fatty acids lauric acid,

palmitic acid, stearic acid, and arachidic acid all induced oxygen radical

production in neutrophilsâ€¦ "

Wanten GJ, Janssen FP, Naber AH. Saturated triglycerides and fatty acids

activate neutrophils depending on carbon chain-length. Eur J Clin Invest

2002;32(4):285-89.

Vitkova M, Chalabala M. The use of some hydrophobic substances in tablet

technology. Acta Pharm Hung 1998;68(6):336-44.

In a message dated 06/23/07 2:05:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

mascis_j@... writes:

Magnesium stearate/stearic acid are trans-fats, similar to hydrogenated

vegetable oils. I have found trans-fats to give me severe brain fog.

You can search trans-fats or hydrogenated in the search box to see more

posts. Magnesium stearate is just the name of the stuff, it's not the

same as supplemental magnesium, it's just a coincidence. I don't know

what you'd find in literature, since brain fog is only really

associated with CFS, and I just found out by accident. I've thought

about going on a cancer board and posting about it, since there is a

lot of talk about brainfog after chemo, but it just sounds kind of

nutty, so I dunno. I'm really trying to get someone else to try it out,

but it's kind of hard because most people take so many supps, and I

don't think it would work without eliminating both dietary and

supplement sources. Another poster just posted about experiencing brain

fog after eating fats, so that's encouraging that it is a similar

reaction, it's just that transfats are like saturated fats on steroids

in terms of brainfog in my experience.

>

> It has been extemely intertesting reading posts!!! I've tried to find

info/literature stating how magnesium stearate in vitamins, as a

filler, can negatively effect some individuals. (most of my vitamins

contain magnesium stearate). I tried to find the post again because I

don't understand why magnesium as a supplement is beneficial but

magnesium stearate can be a problem for some. If someone has info on

this topic I would greatly appreciate it if you can post it or send it

to me privately. I ironically recently purchased a vitamin that said

it was free of magnesium stearate so it must be a problem, I just don't

understand why. Thanks in advance!!! Mindy

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

June 23, 2007

Regarding:

since brain fog is only really associated with CFS,

Those with Multiple Chemical Sensitivities get brainfog a lot ,

especially from things they are reacting to. But also just from being so toxic.

Electromagnetic fields [EMF] also make those sensitive to them, get brain fog.

Candida causes brainfog in a big way too. Since Candida is so 'connected' to

cancer, it would not surprise me that those with cancer get brainfog. Adrenal

deficiency as well as low thyroid also cause brainfog. These I know for

sure; but it would not surprise me if brainfog was caused by many other

illnesses.

Brainfog is also part of 'brain fatigue' which is part and parcel of many

conditions.

Almost forgot - allerigies often also cause brainfog, and brainfog is

part of fibromyalgia too. And some vitamin and/or mineral deficiencies cause

brainfog.

One of my doctors is an 'Enviroamental' doctor . She suggests all

her patients take supplements without fillers, etc of any sort if possible --

the same goes for any drugs, though she is not 'big' on drugs for anything

especially if something natural can do the job. But then she also strongly

suggests that her patients eat organic food too as much as possible.

blessings

Shan

Re: magnesium stearate

Posted by: " j mascis " mascis_j@... mascis_j

Sat Jun 23, 2007 2:04 pm (PST)