Re: Starting Chelation Soon - Questions

[Guest guest]

Welcome to the group.

The below is a very recent post from Mandi in the UK.

I hope Mandi does not mind me reposting it, but I feel that it very much applies

to yourself.

"

Are there any accurate tests for lead poisonin?

On Jan 31, 2010, at 2:18 PM, Mum231ASD@... wrote:

> In a message dated 31/01/2010 19:46:27 GMT Standard Time,

> diamond12345@... writes:

>

> Does anyone know of something called the " DMSA Challenge " for lead?

>

> >>Yes, its dangerous and of no diagnostic use

>

> and is it an accurate test?

> >>Nope

>

> Do you need a doctor to do it?

> >>Nope, just don't do it.

>

> Scroll down at this link

>

> _http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/_ (http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/)

>

> and read about the Counting Rules to assess the probability of toxicity

> with an ELEMENTAL hair test from Doctors Data, available without a medic from

>

> _www.Directlabs.com_ (http://www.Directlabs.com)

>

> Mention you are a member of THE AUTISM GROUP for a discount

>

> HTH

>

> Mandi in UK "

All the best

Kenny

>

> Hello, new to this group.

>

> We are about to start chelation with my 9 year old who had 49 mg of Mercury on

the latest DMSA provocation urine test. Have been on the diet and supplements.

Most recent OAT test shows yeast is under control.

>

> What is a reasonable duration of the process? We were told 3 months. Plan is

to start 3 on/11 off then to 5 on/9 off. Depending on reactions.

>

> Has most people seen tremendous improvement and success in removing metals

from this process?

>

> Thank you!

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the information. Very glad to find this group and learn more

about the process.

My kid got double DMSA challenged within 3 days. The first test was deemed

" null " b/c we missed one collection. It was the collection that had 12 seedlike

particles (dark brown, looks like small sesame seeds). Has anyone seen " weird "

things coming out of the urine while chelating?

Since the challenge(s), attention got poor and stims went up. It's been 2 weeks

and just now getting better. Any suggestions how to remedy the situation? Is

this what to expect during chelation? Or does that mean we are doing something

wrong?

Been reading that protocol is 3 days on / 8 days off. Is 5 days on / 9 days off

too aggressive?

We thought the DMSA challenge was a reliable test based on ARI's Mercury

Detoxification Consensus Position Paper (2005)

http://www.autism.com/triggers/vaccine/mercurydetox.htm

So thankful we found this group before moving forward.

Thanks again for the info. Sorry if my questions are naive and repetitive. In

the process of learning. Thanks!

[Guest guest]

>>> It was the collection that had 12 seedlike particles (dark brown, looks like

small sesame seeds). Has anyone seen " weird " things coming out of the urine

while chelating?

Seeds in the urine could be kidney stones or mineral deposits in the urinary

tract. I speculate that the chelation helped to break down these deposits.

I have read, and heard from our doctors, that it is important for the child to

have an adequate detox pathways prior to chelation. In your child's case, a

hepatic detox remedy might be helpful.

http://ezinearticles.com/?You-Can-Dissolve-Kidney-Stones-Safely-and-Naturally---\

Heres-How & id=611414

>>> Is this what to expect during chelation? Or does that mean we are doing

something wrong?

We observed massive Candida yeast elimination during chelation - particularly

with DMPS chelation. This can be a deep rooted problem known as " biofilm " , that

surfaces during the treatments.

http://tinyurl.com/Usman-Autism

--penumbra

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your response.

Would there be no reactions if Andy Cutler's protocol is followed?

Per McCandless' book and Autism Research Institute site, provoked DMSA test seem

to be acceptable. What would be considered a " reliable " source of info?

Appreciate your comments!

>

> This is what to expect from improper chelation and challenge tests, which is

what you are doing from the sounds of it.

> The side effects you are seeing are the result of metals being re-distributed,

causing more damage to the brain and organs.

>

> The correct way to chelate is using low and frequent dosing. It takes longer,

but it is safe. Please read the FAQs you got when you joined the group and also

go to the files section and read about the Andy Cutler chelation protocol.

>

> Please stop and learn about safe and effective chelation. Question your doctor

- they are not always right. Wasn't it a doctor who injected mercury and other

metals into your child in the first place? Wasn't it a dentist who installed

mercury into all our teeth? Stop listening to these people and learn for

yourself before you make your child even worse.

> TJ

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: bouquet88 <bouquet88@...>

>

> Sent: Sun, January 31, 2010 10:27:10 PM

> Subject: [ ] Re: Starting Chelation Soon - Questions

>

>  

> Thank you for the information. Very glad to find this group and learn more

about the process.

>

> My kid got double DMSA challenged within 3 days. The first test was deemed

" null " b/c we missed one collection. It was the collection that had 12 seedlike

particles (dark brown, looks like small sesame seeds). Has anyone seen " weird "

things coming out of the urine while chelating?

>

> Since the challenge(s) , attention got poor and stims went up. It's been 2

weeks and just now getting better. Any suggestions how to remedy the situation?

Is this what to expect during chelation? Or does that mean we are doing

something wrong?

>

> Been reading that protocol is 3 days on / 8 days off. Is 5 days on / 9 days

off too aggressive?

>

> We thought the DMSA challenge was a reliable test based on ARI's Mercury

Detoxification Consensus Position Paper (2005) http://www.autism. com/triggers/

vaccine/mercuryd etox.htm

> So thankful we found this group before moving forward.

>

> Thanks again for the info. Sorry if my questions are naive and repetitive. In

the process of learning. Thanks!

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hopefully you are dosing the three days on AC protocol timing. Every four hours

at night and three during the day.

And giving supplements for chelation on all day. Off or on.

Jan

>

> My DAN dr who is an herbalist suggested 3 days on (DMSA +ALA) and 11 days

> off (using the days off to supplement the system with lots of other

> things)....my 7 yr old was such a champ and handled the first 3 days well

> and we were actually able to potty train for the first time and he got

> it!!!!

>

> ANN

>

> _____

>

> From: [mailto: ]

> On Behalf Of bouquet88

> Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 10:27 PM

>

> Subject: [ ] Re: Starting Chelation Soon - Questions

>

>

>

>

> Thank you for the information. Very glad to find this group and learn more

> about the process.

>

> My kid got double DMSA challenged within 3 days. The first test was deemed

> " null " b/c we missed one collection. It was the collection that had 12

> seedlike particles (dark brown, looks like small sesame seeds). Has anyone

> seen " weird " things coming out of the urine while chelating?

>

> Since the challenge(s), attention got poor and stims went up. It's been 2

> weeks and just now getting better. Any suggestions how to remedy the

> situation? Is this what to expect during chelation? Or does that mean we are

> doing something wrong?

>

> Been reading that protocol is 3 days on / 8 days off. Is 5 days on / 9 days

> off too aggressive?

>

> We thought the DMSA challenge was a reliable test based on ARI's Mercury

> Detoxification Consensus Position Paper (2005) http://www.autism.

> <http://www.autism.com/triggers/vaccine/mercurydetox.htm>

> com/triggers/vaccine/mercurydetox.htm

> So thankful we found this group before moving forward.

>

> Thanks again for the info. Sorry if my questions are naive and repetitive.

> In the process of learning. Thanks!

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you very much for all the responses! Learning a lot and hoping to get my

guy healthy

> >

> > My DAN dr who is an herbalist suggested 3 days on (DMSA +ALA) and 11 days

> > off (using the days off to supplement the system with lots of other

> > things)....my 7 yr old was such a champ and handled the first 3 days well

> > and we were actually able to potty train for the first time and he got

> > it!!!!

> >

> > ANN

> >

> > _____

> >

> > From: [mailto: ]

> > On Behalf Of bouquet88

> > Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 10:27 PM

> >

> > Subject: [ ] Re: Starting Chelation Soon - Questions

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Thank you for the information. Very glad to find this group and learn more

> > about the process.

> >

> > My kid got double DMSA challenged within 3 days. The first test was deemed

> > " null " b/c we missed one collection. It was the collection that had 12

> > seedlike particles (dark brown, looks like small sesame seeds). Has anyone

> > seen " weird " things coming out of the urine while chelating?

> >

> > Since the challenge(s), attention got poor and stims went up. It's been 2

> > weeks and just now getting better. Any suggestions how to remedy the

> > situation? Is this what to expect during chelation? Or does that mean we are

> > doing something wrong?

> >

> > Been reading that protocol is 3 days on / 8 days off. Is 5 days on / 9 days

> > off too aggressive?

> >

> > We thought the DMSA challenge was a reliable test based on ARI's Mercury

> > Detoxification Consensus Position Paper (2005) http://www.autism.

> > <http://www.autism.com/triggers/vaccine/mercurydetox.htm>

> > com/triggers/vaccine/mercurydetox.htm

> > So thankful we found this group before moving forward.

> >

> > Thanks again for the info. Sorry if my questions are naive and repetitive.

> > In the process of learning. Thanks!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Please reconsider this dosing schedule. There's lots of information in the files

about a safer routine based on the half life of dmsa. Yes, it is inconvenient

for all of us to do four hour around the clock dosing but so much safer for our

children!!! You do not want to redistribute this toxin.

> >

> > My DAN dr who is an herbalist suggested 3 days on (DMSA +ALA) and 11 days

> > off (using the days off to supplement the system with lots of other

> > things)....my 7 yr old was such a champ and handled the first 3 days well

> > and we were actually able to potty train for the first time and he got

> > it!!!!

> >

> > ANN

> >

> > _____

> >

> > From: @ <mailto: %40>

> [mailto: @

> <mailto: %40> ]

> > On Behalf Of bouquet88

> > Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 10:27 PM

> > @ <mailto: %40>

>

> > Subject: [ ] Re: Starting Chelation Soon - Questions

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Thank you for the information. Very glad to find this group and learn more

> > about the process.

> >

> > My kid got double DMSA challenged within 3 days. The first test was deemed

> > " null " b/c we missed one collection. It was the collection that had 12

> > seedlike particles (dark brown, looks like small sesame seeds). Has anyone

> > seen " weird " things coming out of the urine while chelating?

> >

> > Since the challenge(s), attention got poor and stims went up. It's been 2

> > weeks and just now getting better. Any suggestions how to remedy the

> > situation? Is this what to expect during chelation? Or does that mean we

> are

> > doing something wrong?

> >

> > Been reading that protocol is 3 days on / 8 days off. Is 5 days on / 9

> days

> > off too aggressive?

> >

> > We thought the DMSA challenge was a reliable test based on ARI's Mercury

> > Detoxification Consensus Position Paper (2005) http://www.autism.

> > <http://www.autism.

> <http://www.autism.com/triggers/vaccine/mercurydetox.htm>

> com/triggers/vaccine/mercurydetox.htm>

> > com/triggers/vaccine/mercurydetox.htm

> > So thankful we found this group before moving forward.

> >

> > Thanks again for the info. Sorry if my questions are naive and repetitive.

> > In the process of learning. Thanks!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

You can squirt it in the child's mouth with dropper at night.He doesn't even

have to be awoken.I have it pre-mixed(with 2ml water) in seperate droppers and

keep them on ice on the night stand.When the alarm goes off I just lightly pry

his mouth open on the side and squirt it in.If he needs water he sits up and I

have that for him ready.No need to wake up child.

> >

> > My DAN dr who is an herbalist suggested 3 days on (DMSA +ALA) and 11 days

> > off (using the days off to supplement the system with lots of other

> > things)....my 7 yr old was such a champ and handled the first 3 days well

> > and we were actually able to potty train for the first time and he got

> > it!!!!

> >

> > ANN

> >

> > _____

> >

> > From: @ <mailto: %40>

> [mailto: @

> <mailto: %40> ]

> > On Behalf Of bouquet88

> > Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 10:27 PM

> > @ <mailto: %40>

>

> > Subject: [ ] Re: Starting Chelation Soon - Questions

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Thank you for the information. Very glad to find this group and learn more

> > about the process.

> >

> > My kid got double DMSA challenged within 3 days. The first test was deemed

> > " null " b/c we missed one collection. It was the collection that had 12

> > seedlike particles (dark brown, looks like small sesame seeds). Has anyone

> > seen " weird " things coming out of the urine while chelating?

> >

> > Since the challenge(s), attention got poor and stims went up. It's been 2

> > weeks and just now getting better. Any suggestions how to remedy the

> > situation? Is this what to expect during chelation? Or does that mean we

> are

> > doing something wrong?

> >

> > Been reading that protocol is 3 days on / 8 days off. Is 5 days on / 9

> days

> > off too aggressive?

> >

> > We thought the DMSA challenge was a reliable test based on ARI's Mercury

> > Detoxification Consensus Position Paper (2005) http://www.autism.

> > <http://www.autism.

> <http://www.autism.com/triggers/vaccine/mercurydetox.htm>

> com/triggers/vaccine/mercurydetox.htm>

> > com/triggers/vaccine/mercurydetox.htm

> > So thankful we found this group before moving forward.

> >

> > Thanks again for the info. Sorry if my questions are naive and repetitive.

> > In the process of learning. Thanks!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I don't mean this to sound rude, please don't take it that way - his " theory "

may not help your child. How chelators work in the body is how they work: this

protocol is based on the half life - you may need to adjust the timing by 1/2

hour or so, but that's about it. Chelators have a half life that can be tested -

this isn't about theory.

I totally understand your concerns about the up all night bit. I've been there.

My son suffered sleep terrors for years. Quite literally I went about 5 years

without more than a handful of nights where I got a full night's sleep. It got

so bad, I developed insomnia, because I had learned to not sleep.

The first round of chelation, I set my son into a sleep terror by scaring him

when I stuck the oral syringe in his mouth. We saw enough gains on the first

round, it was worth it. We kept going, we used melatonin and 5HTP for sleep at

night, and now after almost 20 rounds, he sleeps through night easily. We use

melatonin on round nights so he isn't disturbed for dosing, and the night after

if he does wake up on round. It's 2 or 3 nights - if he's up, he's up. He can

sleep without disruption the other nights (we only chelate every other weekend).

It is completely worth it for the gains we've seen.

I use EO's, too. They don't chelate the brain. Your child's body burden may be

changing right now, but ALA is for clearing the brain.

> > >

> > > My DAN dr who is an herbalist suggested 3 days on (DMSA +ALA) and 11

> days

> > > off (using the days off to supplement the system with lots of other

> > > things)....my 7 yr old was such a champ and handled the first 3 days

> well

> > > and we were actually able to potty train for the first time and he got

> > > it!!!!

> > >

> > > ANN

> > >

> > > _____

> > >

> > > From: @ <mailto: %40>

> > [mailto: @

> > <mailto: %40> ]

> > > On Behalf Of bouquet88

> > > Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 10:27 PM

> > > @ <mailto: %40>

> >

> > > Subject: [ ] Re: Starting Chelation Soon - Questions

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Thank you for the information. Very glad to find this group and learn

> more

> > > about the process.

> > >

> > > My kid got double DMSA challenged within 3 days. The first test was

> deemed

> > > " null " b/c we missed one collection. It was the collection that had 12

> > > seedlike particles (dark brown, looks like small sesame seeds). Has

> anyone

> > > seen " weird " things coming out of the urine while chelating?

> > >

> > > Since the challenge(s), attention got poor and stims went up. It's been

> 2

> > > weeks and just now getting better. Any suggestions how to remedy the

> > > situation? Is this what to expect during chelation? Or does that mean we

> > are

> > > doing something wrong?

> > >

> > > Been reading that protocol is 3 days on / 8 days off. Is 5 days on / 9

> > days

> > > off too aggressive?

> > >

> > > We thought the DMSA challenge was a reliable test based on ARI's Mercury

> > > Detoxification Consensus Position Paper (2005) http://www.autism.

> > > <http://www.autism.

> > <http://www.autism.

> <http://www.autism.com/triggers/vaccine/mercurydetox.htm>

> com/triggers/vaccine/mercurydetox.htm>

> > com/triggers/vaccine/mercurydetox.htm>

> > > com/triggers/vaccine/mercurydetox.htm

> > > So thankful we found this group before moving forward.

> > >

> > > Thanks again for the info. Sorry if my questions are naive and

> repetitive.

> > > In the process of learning. Thanks!

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

I agree. I'd rather have a tired kid who is getting better than one will be

autistic for life.

All parents have this concern about their child staying up all night and not

taking the night doses. MOST of the time it does'nt happen. The child takes it

without waking. Some of the time, they do wake but only in the first few rounds.

My son yelled and hollared and told me to go away the first few rounds we did.

But he got over it, he got tired and he got used to it. Each round was easier

and he resisted less and barely woke. By round 5 or so, he wasn't waking at all,

just sitting up on command of my voice and drinking. He didn't even open his

eyes. Doesn't remember me giving it to him.

Children who sleep that lightly often have adrenal issues or issues that

chelation helps to resolve. My kids sleep far better than they used to. We used

adrenal cortex and melatonin to regulate better sleep. I'd use melatonin on a

child who sleeps very lightly. It's likely they are not getting good sleep

anyway.

But Andy has said that if you can't chelate on the safe timing, you're better

off not doing it at all.

I use dmsa/ala myself and I'd not be happy if someone gave me dmsa 3x a day. I

can actually feel it wearing off around 4 hours after I took it. Same with

ala..I can feel it wearing down and I can truly see how problematic it would be

if I didn't use it on AC protocol timing.

DMSA every four hours or not at all. ALA every three. This is how longs the

stuff lasts in the body. We dose all meds based upon how long they last, why

should a chelator be any different? A doctor doesn't tell you to take tylenol

once a week for your broken arm, but rather every 4-6 hours, because that's how

long it lasts.

Chemistry is what it is.

Jan

> > > >

> > > > My DAN dr who is an herbalist suggested 3 days on (DMSA +ALA) and 11

> > days

> > > > off (using the days off to supplement the system with lots of other

> > > > things)....my 7 yr old was such a champ and handled the first 3 days

> > well

> > > > and we were actually able to potty train for the first time and he got

> > > > it!!!!

> > > >

> > > > ANN

> > > >

> > > > _____

> > > >

> > > > From: @ <mailto: %40>

> > > [mailto: @

> > > <mailto: %40> ]

> > > > On Behalf Of bouquet88

> > > > Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 10:27 PM

> > > > @ <mailto: %40>

> > >

> > > > Subject: [ ] Re: Starting Chelation Soon - Questions

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Thank you for the information. Very glad to find this group and learn

> > more

> > > > about the process.

> > > >

> > > > My kid got double DMSA challenged within 3 days. The first test was

> > deemed

> > > > " null " b/c we missed one collection. It was the collection that had 12

> > > > seedlike particles (dark brown, looks like small sesame seeds). Has

> > anyone

> > > > seen " weird " things coming out of the urine while chelating?

> > > >

> > > > Since the challenge(s), attention got poor and stims went up. It's been

> > 2

> > > > weeks and just now getting better. Any suggestions how to remedy the

> > > > situation? Is this what to expect during chelation? Or does that mean we

> > > are

> > > > doing something wrong?

> > > >

> > > > Been reading that protocol is 3 days on / 8 days off. Is 5 days on / 9

> > > days

> > > > off too aggressive?

> > > >

> > > > We thought the DMSA challenge was a reliable test based on ARI's Mercury

> > > > Detoxification Consensus Position Paper (2005) http://www.autism.

> > > > <http://www.autism.

> > > <http://www.autism.

> > <http://www.autism.com/triggers/vaccine/mercurydetox.htm>

> > com/triggers/vaccine/mercurydetox.htm>

> > > com/triggers/vaccine/mercurydetox.htm>

> > > > com/triggers/vaccine/mercurydetox.htm

> > > > So thankful we found this group before moving forward.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks again for the info. Sorry if my questions are naive and

> > repetitive.

> > > > In the process of learning. Thanks!

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

To me, Cutler has the safest protocol by far and we have seen nothing but good

results. For 120#, we started way too agggressively at 50mg dmsa; backed way

down to about 1/4 of a 25mg capsule for awhile and have gradually worked up to

25mg. We added in the ALA after approx 3 mos of dmsa only. It's just so

important to keep a constant level of these chelators so the body is not dealing

with a constant loose supply metals while one is chelating. The DAN protocol

does not seem to recognize this aspect of chelator half life. You don't need doc

approval to implement a safer chelation schedule. Good luck,

> >

> > I read your other post as well. This is improper chelation, that is why you

are not seeing any results.

> > - The dose is too high and too infrequent.

> > Max dose for you boy should be 1/2 mg per pound of body weight and you

should give it every 4 hours, day and night.

> > Please read about the Andy Cutler protocol.

> > You should start out at about 1/8 mg per pond of body weight. Most of us do

a 3 day on and 4 day off round. We start on Friday night nad end Monday morning.

This works around the school schedule.

> > You also need to give supporting supplements and have a yeast fighting

protocol in place.

> > If you add ALA you need to give that every three hours during the day and

four hours at night.

> > ALA is important because it will remove metals from the brain.

> > TJ

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ________________________________

> > From: Mimoza Mali <m.mat31@>

> >

> > Sent: Tue, February 2, 2010 9:01:37 PM

> > Subject: [ ] Re: Starting Chelation Soon - Questions

> >

> >  

> > Hi,

> >

> > I just joined this group and was surprised to read that it is recommended to

> > give DMSA every three hours. I have a ten year old boy and am in round four

> > of chelation with chemet 100mg every 4 hours for three days then 11 days

> > off. I have a DAN doctor who recommended it. What do I do? I was also

> > reading about the ALA, our doctor did not recommend it. We did the test with

> > Doctor Data and my son is high on tin, and led. I would appreciate and

> > advise form you parents. I live in Massachusetts, anyone recommends a good

> > doctor for chelation and biomed treatment?

> >

> > Any comments/ suggestions very much appreciated!

> > Mimi

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

> I meant to say that the doctor recommended taking chemet every 8 hours. I also

wanted to add that I have not seen any improvement, my son is getting more hyper

and having some tics he never had before.

At my house, hyper and tics meant yeast overgrowth.

Dana