Re: Can I do a challenge test through direct labs?

[Guest guest]

Do a round of AC chelation and collect urine from 8 hours post first dose

for 12 hours. Mark as so on the form. I'd lay money on it showing metals,

voila, you have a result without causing yourself more damage.

Mandi in UK

In a message dated 09/09/2010 21:17:43 GMT Daylight Time,

jessicawitmer@... writes:

I still would like to know how to do a challenge test.

[Guest guest]

Well, what I did was start a round at 4.00pm Friday and collected first

morning on Saturday, last pee before bed being about 8.00pm so I called that

12 hours on the form. Always got best readings, ie high for proof purposes,

collecting at this time rather than on day 2 or 3, that's better for poop I

think than urine.

Good luck

Mandi in UK

In a message dated 09/09/2010 23:05:07 GMT Daylight Time,

jessicawitmer@... writes:

Mandi....are you saying, that 8 hours after the first dose, to collect ALL

of her urine for 12 hours? I can do that, just trying to visualize what

you are saying. That is going to be a lot of urine, no?

[Guest guest]

I only ever did one catch, that was first morning because he would do that

in a potty and not in the loo and flush it away.

Mandi in UK

In a message dated 09/09/2010 23:53:53 GMT Daylight Time,

sasmitamishra15@... writes:

Did you mixed both urines and send a sample from it?

[Guest guest]

I have never tested with DMPS, I actually wouldn't bother to test at all,

its all meaningless. I wanted tests like the other poster for proof and I

needed big numbers because the reading he has, unchallenged before chelation,

showing a level of Hg in his urine was not good enough - grhhhhhhhhh.

The best ever was Blood Lead on day 11 after a round of DMSA, off the

scale, that sealed it, they no longer think I am nutty but still won't give

chelator at school (I was trying to get Friday 2 doses given during the day so

I could sleep Sunday night)

Mandi in UK

PS My theory with the blood lead having had it drawn on day 3 of a round

also and having ZERo NADA, nowt, and then again day 11 after (we were on 3/11

schedule) very very high. I believe after the round the blood is cleared,

over the next however many days the Lead is leeching out of the bones where

its stored to try and recreate the previous equilibrium. This sounds bad

but its actually good, we can chelate it when its circulating. Very tired,

probably not making much sense!

In a message dated 09/09/2010 23:43:15 GMT Daylight Time,

sasmitamishra15@... writes:

OK, I am confused now.

With DMPS, how can we collect Urine, I mean how many hours after the first

dose??

Do we need to collect after first dose and then after 1-2 rounds?

How you guys do it? OR fecal metal is a better test?

[Guest guest]

The best proof is in symptom improvement. Lab tests are just snapshots in time

and are misleading. Very easy to make bad decisions based on lab tests. If your

child is improving, keep chelating - simple as that.

TJ

________________________________

From: <jessicawitmer@...>

Sent: Thu, September 9, 2010 11:02:48 AM

Subject: [ ] Can I do a " challenge " test through direct labs?

 

I am thinking of using direct labs to get some hard " proof " about what is going

on with my daughter.

Is there any way to do a " challenge " , measuring toxic metal output while

chelating using ALA only? can I just order a fecal test through Direct Labs and

take a sample while chelating?

Or ....any other ideas?

Thanks in advance,

[Guest guest]

Tj,

I knew you would say that.

I still would like to know how to do a challenge test. I have lots of reasons

for needing that snapshot. The greatest of which gaining some support from my

family. Yes, that is important to me, b/c on top of this madness with mercury,

chronic diarrhea, yeast rashes all over the body, etc. I have two year old

twins. I need to gather enough hard proof to get my family on board - one less

stresser for me (just had a retinal detachment a few months ago and still

recovering from that myself, on top of all of this stress.)

Thank you

>

> The best proof is in symptom improvement. Lab tests are just snapshots in time

> and are misleading. Very easy to make bad decisions based on lab tests. If

your

> child is improving, keep chelating - simple as that.

> TJ

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: <jessicawitmer@...>

>

> Sent: Thu, September 9, 2010 11:02:48 AM

> Subject: [ ] Can I do a " challenge " test through direct labs?

>

>  

> I am thinking of using direct labs to get some hard " proof " about what is

going

> on with my daughter.

>

> Is there any way to do a " challenge " , measuring toxic metal output while

> chelating using ALA only? can I just order a fecal test through Direct Labs

and

> take a sample while chelating?

>

> Or ....any other ideas?

>

> Thanks in advance,

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

An article published in Environmental Health Perspectives, Vol. 109, No. 2,

February 2001 stated that " DMSA chelation challenge is not useful as a biomarker

of past mercury exposure " . This is a peer-reviewed scientific journal. The

authors surveyed 119 mercury-exposed persons and 101 unexposed persons. The

protocol involved is based on 2 dosages of 10mg/1kg. My friend told me that the

results of mercury tests for his son are over the place (e.g., different results

from different labs, different results from the same lab).

>

> I am thinking of using direct labs to get some hard " proof " about what is

going on with my daughter.

>

> Is there any way to do a " challenge " , measuring toxic metal output while

chelating using ALA only? can I just order a fecal test through Direct Labs and

take a sample while chelating?

>

> Or ....any other ideas?

>

> Thanks in advance,

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

How about a urine porphrin test instead?

I guess I wouldn't be willing to risk my child's health to prove a point to

family members. I have no support, either. I get it.

Pam

> >

> > The best proof is in symptom improvement. Lab tests are just snapshots in

time

> > and are misleading. Very easy to make bad decisions based on lab tests. If

your

> > child is improving, keep chelating - simple as that.

> > TJ

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ________________________________

> > From: <jessicawitmer@>

> >

> > Sent: Thu, September 9, 2010 11:02:48 AM

> > Subject: [ ] Can I do a " challenge " test through direct labs?

> >

> >  

> > I am thinking of using direct labs to get some hard " proof " about what is

going

> > on with my daughter.

> >

> > Is there any way to do a " challenge " , measuring toxic metal output while

> > chelating using ALA only? can I just order a fecal test through Direct Labs

and

> > take a sample while chelating?

> >

> > Or ....any other ideas?

> >

> > Thanks in advance,

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

This is exactly what I was looking for.

Thank you!

Mandi....are you saying, that 8 hours after the first dose, to collect ALL of

her urine for 12 hours? I can do that, just trying to visualize what you are

saying. That is going to be a lot of urine, no?

>

> Do a round of AC chelation and collect urine from 8 hours post first dose

> for 12 hours. Mark as so on the form. I'd lay money on it showing metals,

> voila, you have a result without causing yourself more damage.

>

> Mandi in UK

>

>

> In a message dated 09/09/2010 21:17:43 GMT Daylight Time,

> jessicawitmer@... writes:

>

> I still would like to know how to do a challenge test.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Mandi,

OK, I am confused now.

With DMPS, how can we collect Urine, I mean how many hours after the first

dose??

Do we need to collect after first dose and then after 1-2 rounds?

How you guys do it? OR fecal metal is a better test?

Thanks,

Sasmita

>

> Well, what I did was start a round at 4.00pm Friday and collected first

> morning on Saturday, last pee before bed being about 8.00pm so I called that

> 12 hours on the form. Always got best readings, ie high for proof purposes,

> collecting at this time rather than on day 2 or 3, that's better for poop I

> think than urine.

>

> Good luck

>

> Mandi in UK

>

>

> In a message dated 09/09/2010 23:05:07 GMT Daylight Time,

> jessicawitmer@... writes:

>

> Mandi....are you saying, that 8 hours after the first dose, to collect ALL

> of her urine for 12 hours? I can do that, just trying to visualize what

> you are saying. That is going to be a lot of urine, no?

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Mandi,

Did you mixed both urines and send a sample from it?

sasmita

>

> Well, what I did was start a round at 4.00pm Friday and collected first

> morning on Saturday, last pee before bed being about 8.00pm so I called that

> 12 hours on the form. Always got best readings, ie high for proof purposes,

> collecting at this time rather than on day 2 or 3, that's better for poop I

> think than urine.

>

> Good luck

>

> Mandi in UK

>

>

> In a message dated 09/09/2010 23:05:07 GMT Daylight Time,

> jessicawitmer@... writes:

>

> Mandi....are you saying, that 8 hours after the first dose, to collect ALL

> of her urine for 12 hours? I can do that, just trying to visualize what

> you are saying. That is going to be a lot of urine, no?

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Oh, well, if you wanted THAT...

We all assume, when someone says 'challenge test', they mean using

inappropriately high doses of a chelator.

The jug I got once from DDI for a 24 hr urine test was quite large; looked like

a few quarts.

Urine tests have always been all over the board for my son, even at the higher

doses of DMSA/ALA. Sometimes nothing; sometimes lead in the yellow. Never

really much mercury but always some lead.

Good luck. I hope this is what you are looking for.

Pam

> >

> > Do a round of AC chelation and collect urine from 8 hours post first dose

> > for 12 hours. Mark as so on the form. I'd lay money on it showing metals,

> > voila, you have a result without causing yourself more damage.

> >

> > Mandi in UK

> >

> >

> > In a message dated 09/09/2010 21:17:43 GMT Daylight Time,

> > jessicawitmer@ writes:

> >

> > I still would like to know how to do a challenge test.

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Mandi, to get a reading using the urine, I would have to be chelating with DMSA,

right?

Otherwise, I need to catch fecal matter with the ALA?

Thanks again

>

> I only ever did one catch, that was first morning because he would do that

> in a potty and not in the loo and flush it away.

>

> Mandi in UK

>

>

> In a message dated 09/09/2010 23:53:53 GMT Daylight Time,

> sasmitamishra15@... writes:

>

> Did you mixed both urines and send a sample from it?

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Usually you get a (preferably wide-mouth) jug w/ screw-on lid from the doc/lab

and use a cup to collect each urine then dump it in. Cover it. After the 8

hours or whatever collection period, shake the covered jug well and then pour

off a small urine sample into the collection container.

In my experience, we didn't get much excretion showing on the lab test. I don't

think the metals release in a consistent linear fashion, so it's just a matter

of it you get lucky. Some have reported good results collecting on day 2. But

as Andy says, lab tests are not a good indicator. We have had improvements all

along in many areas so I don't lab test anymore.

Jo

> >

> > In a message dated 09/09/2010 23:05:07 GMT Daylight Time,

> > jessicawitmer@ writes:

> >

> > Mandi....are you saying, that 8 hours after the first dose, to collect ALL

> > of her urine for 12 hours? I can do that, just trying to visualize what

> > you are saying. That is going to be a lot of urine, no?

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

And then you get a test with no metals in it and your family says " I told you

so " .

Lab tests are only to convince you to start , not check your progress.

TJ

[ ] Can I do a " challenge " test through direct labs?

>

>  

> I am thinking of using direct labs to get some hard " proof " about what is

going

[The entire original message is not included]

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/09/2010 01:26:48 GMT Daylight Time,

jessicawitmer@... writes:

Mandi, to get a reading using the urine, I would have to be chelating with

DMSA, right?

>>>YES

Otherwise, I need to catch fecal matter with the ALA?

>>I think so and if you are doing both I would go for the poop

Good luck

Mandi in UK

[Guest guest]

Not in my experience if you collect early enough in the round, not that

it means much to us, but the uninitiated are usually impressed. In the early

days folks would say day or 3 and I got zilch, not even any in blood on

day 3, AC is an efficient way to chelate so IMHO has to be early in the round

Mandi

In a message dated 10/09/2010 04:32:07 GMT Daylight Time,

wiersmak@... writes:

With AC protocol, it would be even more likely that a urine challenge

wouldnt show anything.

[Guest guest]

One thing to consider is hydration. I know of a parent on another group that

gave her kid 3 consecutive DMSA challenges (500 mg each) and came up with

nothing because her kid was driking too hydrated. With AC protocol, it would be

even more likely that a urine challenge wouldnt show anything.

If your doing ALA, then maybe taking a fecal sample during the round might show

something. I do a hair test twice a year. Since its a longer " snapshot " , you

get a better indication of whats coming out than youd get from a urine/fecal

challenge.

Karla

> >

> > The best proof is in symptom improvement. Lab tests are just snapshots in

time

> > and are misleading. Very easy to make bad decisions based on lab tests. If

your

> > child is improving, keep chelating - simple as that.

> > TJ

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ________________________________

> > From: <jessicawitmer@>

> >

> > Sent: Thu, September 9, 2010 11:02:48 AM

> > Subject: [ ] Can I do a " challenge " test through direct labs?

> >

> >  

> > I am thinking of using direct labs to get some hard " proof " about what is

going

> > on with my daughter.

> >

> > Is there any way to do a " challenge " , measuring toxic metal output while

> > chelating using ALA only? can I just order a fecal test through Direct Labs

and

> > take a sample while chelating?

> >

> > Or ....any other ideas?

> >

> > Thanks in advance,

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Our DAN wanted urine collected for 12 hrs after taking the DMPS (which covered 2

doses). The one time we did it, we didnt get anything. We were only using 5 mg,

so thats probably why. After that, our doc determined additional urine

" challenges " werent worth it.

Karla

> >

> > Well, what I did was start a round at 4.00pm Friday and collected first

> > morning on Saturday, last pee before bed being about 8.00pm so I called that

> > 12 hours on the form. Always got best readings, ie high for proof purposes,

> > collecting at this time rather than on day 2 or 3, that's better for poop I

> > think than urine.

> >

> > Good luck

> >

> > Mandi in UK

> >

> >

> > In a message dated 09/09/2010 23:05:07 GMT Daylight Time,

> > jessicawitmer@ writes:

> >

> > Mandi....are you saying, that 8 hours after the first dose, to collect ALL

> > of her urine for 12 hours? I can do that, just trying to visualize what

> > you are saying. That is going to be a lot of urine, no?

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the info. I will pass that on to our DAN.

Karla

>

> Not in my experience if you collect early enough in the round, not that

> it means much to us, but the uninitiated are usually impressed. In the early

> days folks would say day or 3 and I got zilch, not even any in blood on

> day 3, AC is an efficient way to chelate so IMHO has to be early in the round

>

> Mandi

>

>

> In a message dated 10/09/2010 04:32:07 GMT Daylight Time,

> wiersmak@... writes:

>

> With AC protocol, it would be even more likely that a urine challenge

> wouldnt show anything.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You don't know its a FALSE negative, that's why you are better off not

bothering to test and just get on with chelation, do 20 rounds and see if it

makes a difference

JMH and Experienced opinion

Mandi in UK

In a message dated 10/09/2010 20:55:52 GMT Daylight Time,

jessicawitmer@... writes:

So if you get a lab before you start and it's a " false negative " then

what? You don't chelate?

[Guest guest]

I guess this would be the test to keep quiet until the results come back in her

favor?

> >

> > The best proof is in symptom improvement. Lab tests are just snapshots in

time

> > and are misleading. Very easy to make bad decisions based on lab tests. If

your

> > child is improving, keep chelating - simple as that.

> > TJ

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ________________________________

> > From: <jessicawitmer@>

> >

> > Sent: Thu, September 9, 2010 11:02:48 AM

> > Subject: [ ] Can I do a " challenge " test through direct labs?

> >

> >  

> > I am thinking of using direct labs to get some hard " proof " about what is

going

>

> [The entire original message is not included]

>

>

[Guest guest]

So if you get a lab before you start and it's a " false negative " then what? You

don't chelate?

> >

> > The best proof is in symptom improvement. Lab tests are just snapshots in

time

> > and are misleading. Very easy to make bad decisions based on lab tests. If

your

> > child is improving, keep chelating - simple as that.

> > TJ

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ________________________________

> > From: <jessicawitmer@>

> >

> > Sent: Thu, September 9, 2010 11:02:48 AM

> > Subject: [ ] Can I do a " challenge " test through direct labs?

> >

> >  

> > I am thinking of using direct labs to get some hard " proof " about what is

going

>

> [The entire original message is not included]

>

>

[Guest guest]

I am a firm believer that almost all Autism is caused by environmental causes.

The more I read and experience, the more I believe this.

So, there is really no reason for a lab test at all.

The best thing to do is a 10 round trial of chelation.

TJ

________________________________

From: <jessicawitmer@...>

Sent: Fri, September 10, 2010 12:55:28 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: Can I do a " challenge " test through direct labs?

 

So if you get a lab before you start and it's a " false negative " then what? You

don't chelate?

> >

> > The best proof is in symptom improvement. Lab tests are just snapshots in

>time

> > and are misleading. Very easy to make bad decisions based on lab tests. If

>your

> > child is improving, keep chelating - simple as that.

> > TJ

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ________________________________

> > From: <jessicawitmer@>

> >

> > Sent: Thu, September 9, 2010 11:02:48 AM

> > Subject: [ ] Can I do a " challenge " test through direct labs?

> >

> >  

> > I am thinking of using direct labs to get some hard " proof " about what is

>going

>

> [The entire original message is not included]

>

>

[Guest guest]

I don't understand most of this because once you understand one thing then there

are 50 more things to read up on(guess I get overwhelmed).

But the way I look at it all is, its worth a try. None of this will harm them if

its done correctly. My son went from non verbal 2.5 y/o, after doing

probiotics, enzymes, multi vitamin, and some detox drops(going to figure the

name asap) for 4 months he gained over 100 words. I was a non believer since I

didn't understand how things we put into our bodies can effect us. I am glad I

gave it a try since everyone but my husband didn't support my decision. Now I

am glad and proud of all the work I've put into this. My son told me I LOVE

YOU, the best 3 words I've ever heard.

WE are going to start DMSA soon.

Everyday I can see my son open up more and more. Its worth every penny we have.

[ ] Can I do a " challenge " test through direct labs?

> >

> >  

> > I am thinking of using direct labs to get some hard " proof " about what is

>going

>

> [The entire original message is not included]

>

>