Vaccines

[Guest guest]

> From: christine bethune <chrisbeth85@...>

>

>

> Why in the world would someone want to avoid vaccines? There

> are risk to everything but vaccines do provide protection

> from many different types of deadly diseases.

>

>

This is just one of MANY areas in health that we have

been lied to, . Vaccines are causing FAR more

health problems than they have EVER alleviated, and

they are proving to be a very convenient method of

MEDICAL TESTING - yes, testing different substances

WITHOUT YOUR KNOWLEDGE.

If you truly want to learn the truth about vaccines, I

suggest you check out the following web site -

http://www.trufax.org/menu/bio.html#vaccine. Read some

of the writings of the doctors involved in the campaign

to spread the truth about this charade - check out the

documented evidence for yourself, and make up your OWN

mind. It is time we stopped blindly trusting other

people with something as important as the health of

ourselves and our children. I also strongly suggest you

get and read Dr Len Horowitz's book: Emerging Viruses:

AIDS & Ebola--Nature, Accident or Intentional? It can

be ordered from his website, www.tetrahedron.org.

Liberty and ignorance don't mix.

--

Marcus

[Guest guest]

>From: " Marcus " <cmarcus@...>

>Reply-bowel cleanseonelist

>bowel cleanseonelist

>Subject: Re: Vaccines

>Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 23:10:51 -0400

>

>From: " Marcus " <cmarcus@...>

>

> > From: christine bethune <chrisbeth85@...>

> >

> >

> > Why in the world would someone want to avoid vaccines? There

> > are risk to everything but vaccines do provide protection

> > from many different types of deadly diseases.

> >

> >

>

>This is just one of MANY areas in health that we have

>been lied to, . Vaccines are causing FAR more

>health problems than they have EVER alleviated, and

>they are proving to be a very convenient method of

>MEDICAL TESTING - yes, testing different substances

>WITHOUT YOUR KNOWLEDGE.

>

>If you truly want to learn the truth about vaccines, I

>suggest you check out the following web site -

>http://www.trufax.org/menu/bio.html#vaccine. Read some

>of the writings of the doctors involved in the campaign

>to spread the truth about this charade - check out the

>documented evidence for yourself, and make up your OWN

>mind. It is time we stopped blindly trusting other

>people with something as important as the health of

>ourselves and our children. I also strongly suggest you

>get and read Dr Len Horowitz's book: Emerging Viruses:

>AIDS & Ebola--Nature, Accident or Intentional? It can

>be ordered from his website, www.tetrahedron.org.

>

>Liberty and ignorance don't mix.

>

>--

>

> Marcus

>

Hi

I do not believe I would put much trust or faith in the above

statements about vaccines etc made by this gentleman or alot of the

stuff you read on the internet that he referred you to!

Contact me by private e-mail and I will tell you the ACTUAL FACTS about

vaccines etc!

Bill MSN (RN)

>---------------------------

[Guest guest]

Bill, please allow to educate herself about what 'cmarcus' is

saying before you tell her that it isn't true. It is very important to see

both sides of the issue before making a judgement.

Julee

[Guest guest]

> From: " Ole Blente " <blente@...>

>

>>Hi

>> I do not believe I would put much trust or faith in the

>> above statements about vaccines etc made by this gentleman

>> or alot of the stuff you read on the internet that he

>> referred you to! Contact me by private e-mail and I will

>> tell you the ACTUAL FACTS about vaccines etc!

>> Bill MSN (RN)

>

> Wow! Now I`m getting curious!

> Aren`t you willing to tell all of us the thruth about

> vaccines? As others have stated: This is very importent

> matter and the facts shouldn`t be hidden away. Please leak it

> out!

Of course he wouldn't put much faith in anything I

say...he thinks he knows everything, and is a rabid

believer in 'the medical establishment', whose

financial well being DEPENDS on their maintaining

'control', both of our minds AND our health.

Check out a few of the books and sites I referred you

to..then check out THEIR SOURCES (AMA literature, WHO

publications/studies, etc etc ad nauseum). It is all

there, for those with the desire to learn the truth.

--

Marcus

[Guest guest]

>From: DreamsAvA@...

>Reply-bowel cleanseonelist

>bowel cleanseonelist

>Subject: Re: Vaccines

>Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 02:28:40 EDT

>

>From: DreamsAvA@...

>

>Bill, please allow to educate herself about what 'cmarcus' is

>saying before you tell her that it isn't true. It is very important to see

>both sides of the issue before making a judgement.

>Julee

>

Julee, needs information on vaccines NOT DEADLY EBOLA AND MARBURG

VIRUSES OF WHICH THERE IS NO VACCINE (AT THIS TIME)THAT CAN PREVENT EBOLA

AND MARBURG!

needs correct information on vaccines NOT BRAIN WASHED BY

SLANTED VIEW POINTS AND HALF TRUTHS!

Sure there are some risks involved and sometimes deaths occur with vaccines

BUT THERE ARE ALSO HIGHER RISK INVOLVED BY NOT USING VACCINES!

There are also the same risk involved in using antibiotics,herbs etc!

Look at the risk involved in driving a car because a person comes with in

inches of death everytime a person meets another car and/or many other

objects!This is the risk a person accepts when they are in a

moving car!Look at the mortality rates of deaths and injuries due to auto

accidents every year! Does this mean that cars should be banned and not used

because they kill people? NO!

What do you think the mortality rate of people of all ages would be

if no vaccines were used? Is this a risk you would be willing to

accept for yourself and/or family!

There is no antibiotic to treat polio,measles,most cases of hepatitis,

or mumps etc.If you become infected with these potentially deadly viruses

only the bodys own defenses are available to combat the disease and its

consequences!

The only way to improve your chances,IS TO BOOST THE BODYS DEFENSES BY

VACCINATION!

About 40,000 people die each year of pneumonia which is caused by a

single group of organisms,PNEUMOCOCCUS!

An equal number of people die each year of pneumonia caused by various other

forms of bacteria and viruses!

Lets not forget that there are new strains of viruses every year!

One of my testbooks on virology contains over 40 full pages just on the

different names of viruses alone and we have not even said anything about

bacteriology yet!(except for pneumococcus)

I believe you and cmarcus need to go take a few fluoxetine pills and

re-think your negative positions and slanted views on vaccines! Please dont

try to tell me that yoga and zappers replaces vaccines and cures

diseases!

Bill MSN

>---------------------------

[Guest guest]

Bill, I think you misunderstood me. All I was saying that it is important

for one to educate themselves as much as possible on these issues..that means

reading ALL views on the subject..I have heard a little on both sides about

vaccines and am still very confused about it and want to learn more. I

certainly hear what you are saying, but I am also saying that one can never

be too careful. It scares me when I hear that vaccines are mandatory for

kids to attend public shcools and that parents have no say in the matter. My

friends child has not quit being sick since his vaccines for daycare, and

the idea that there may be a time when we all are required by law to get

vaccines. I just don't like the idea of putting things into my body or a

childs body unless I know everything there is to know on the subject. I'm

sure you can relate to this.

Julee

[Guest guest]

> ... et al:

While it is true that vaccines have done a lot of good in the world, it is

equally true that they are not as innocent as a walk in the park on a Sunday

afternoon.

In our community a little boy was vaccinated and within weeks began to lose

his control of muscles. Within about two years he was dead of complications

derived from his muscle or nerve deterioration. The doctors just don't know

what his problem was.

The medical community can hide behind statistics and the law of scientific

elimination (that is, we don't know for sure that it was the vaccine that

caused his illness and death) but you can't convince his mother. She knows

that a normal, healthy little boy suddenly became serious ill after getting

vaccinated and lived a life of hell before he died. Hummm ... some

coincidence.

Of course this kind of reaction is a minority but, , vaccination is

a game of chance. You can win and you can lose. I was vaccinated as a child

and I'm fine but that is not always the case.

Now, as far as non-vaccinated people being a carrier of disease, as you

implied. That could be true. It is equally true that well-fed children

develop strong immune systems. Children who eat refined and preserved foods

are at risk of getting whatever comes along. If you want to question

something (and it is good that you do), question our modern diet and

lifestyle. It's a killer.

[Guest guest]

> From: DreamsAvA@...

>

> Bill, I think you misunderstood me. All I was saying that it

> is important for one to educate themselves as much as

> possible on these issues..that means reading ALL views on the

> subject..I have heard a little on both sides about vaccines

> and am still very confused about it and want to learn more.

> I certainly hear what you are saying, but I am also saying

> that one can never be too careful. It scares me when I hear

> that vaccines are mandatory for kids to attend public shcools

> and that parents have no say in the matter.

Also, where is the LOGIC in this? IF, as Bill says,

vaccines are effective, then the only one at risk in

school is the one who is NOT vaccinated, so the only

argument in favor of the vaccines being MANDATORY is a

usurpation of PARENTAL Rights/Powers of CHOICE.

> My friends child

> has not quit being sick since his vaccines for daycare, and

> the idea that there may be a time when we all are required by

> law to get vaccines. I just don't like the idea of putting

> things into my body or a childs body unless I know everything

> there is to know on the subject. I'm sure you can relate to

> this.

> Julee

You will learn, if you read the information I

recommended, what IS in most of these, and you WILL NOT

LIKE it. Kind of like learning what is in a hot dog.

The sad thing is, most people, even once they know the

truth, will continue on blindly putting the same

garbage in their body day in and day out, then cry foul

when they 'catch' some disease.

--

Marcus

[Guest guest]

>From: DreamsAvA@...

>Reply-bowel cleanseonelist

>bowel cleanseonelist

>Subject: Re: Vaccines

>Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 07:09:34 EDT

>

>From: DreamsAvA@...

>

>Bill, I think you misunderstood me. All I was saying that it is important

>for one to educate themselves as much as possible on these issues..that

>means

>reading ALL views on the subject..I have heard a little on both sides about

>vaccines and am still very confused about it and want to learn more. I

>certainly hear what you are saying, but I am also saying that one can never

>be too careful. It scares me when I hear that vaccines are mandatory for

>kids to attend public shcools and that parents have no say in the matter.

>My

>friends child has not quit being sick since his vaccines for daycare, and

>the idea that there may be a time when we all are required by law to get

>vaccines. I just don't like the idea of putting things into my body or a

>childs body unless I know everything there is to know on the subject. I'm

>sure you can relate to this.

>Julee

>

Julee I do understand what you are saying.

A person should indeed look at all views on vaccines etc!

Nothing in medicine or alternative health care or anything else

is 100 percent safe!

Lets take a simple case of measles caused by the rubeola virus.

This is what happens to children WHO HAVE NOT HAD MEASLES VACCINATIONS

Some children who get this usually do not have any problems But encephalitis

is a complication of measles.Of those who develop

encephalitis about one in eight will die,approx.half will have permanent

central nervous system injury, and the rest will recover completely.In my 25

years in nursing I have seen 3 deaths that was caused by measles that most

likely could have been prevented by

a measle vaccine!

I have also seen 5 cases of anaphylactic shock,encephalitis,chronic

arthritis and thrombocytopenic purpura caused by measles,mumps and rubella

vaccines!

There are several newer types of vaccines on the market that will

be reducing the complications that the older vaccines caused.

There are many different types of viruses,bacteria etc waiting to

claim peoples lives.

Just today in new mexico the haunta virus killed the 7th person this year!

As far as me and my family are concerned we will take our chances

with the vaccines than face the deadly effects of the viruses!

Bill

>---------------------------

[Guest guest]

. It angers me so to hear you say that cmarcus has 'mental health'

problems, not only becuase it is rude, and wrong, but it is such a

reflection of how the human minds can not comprehend things they have never

heard before and supresses very valuable information. This has happened

throughout history. Genuises and true visionaries in science and life are

usually treated as mad men becuase people do not understand them. It

sometimes takes years after their death for people to catch up with them.

Tesla, Wilhelm Reich, Einstien, Newton, Beethoven, Jesus, Vangoe, ( to name a

few )...These people were told to have 'mental health' problems too... most

people are afraid of what they do not understand. Things are not true just

because it is accepted by society. Information is always growing and

changing, evolving. It is this thinking that you have demonstrated that

slows down this growth of information and communication. You are not alone,

it seems to be about 90% of the population. It is the nature in which we have

been taught/shown/brainwashed how to percieve. Hearing something new for the

first time can be scarry, yet that does not make it 'crazy.' I know it seems

safer to believe that cmarcus is off is rocker, life would be alot more

pleseant if you were right, but it isn't that simple. It is a choice. When

one becomes seriously ill perceptions about such things begin to change. I

hope for you sake that you don't ever have to go through that. ( Ignorance is

bliss until your in trouble and need help) Please do not judge others who

have a need to seek the truth.

thank you, Julee

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/26/99 9:16:39 PM Central Daylight Time,

chrisbeth85@... writes:

<< For mr.marcus

I read the material on the web pages plus I read all

of the material in the archives.

I think you have very serious mental health problems!

Why are you so anti-medical!

I put far more trust in medicine and what Bill the RN has told me

than anything that you have stated so far!

I do not appreciate you unloading your personal rabid beliefs

on me! I dont need or desire your negative attitudes and extremely poor

research skills and slanted view points. What are your qualifications and

expertise in medicine? Science?

You seem to be the type of person who reads books But do not understand what

you have read but then you turn around and try to pass yourself off as some

kind of expert on the subject!

I will say this! The people on this list are extremely fortunate

to have Bill who is a highly skilled registered nurse with

outstanding medical qualifications who is willing to take the time

to share information with you.

>>

,

Please go to www.hacres.com then scroll down until you see recommened

articles,

please click and find a wealth of information not only about this subject but

about many more. This organization has many MD s to it's credit. So if it's

a medical opinion you want, here it is.

edith

-

[Guest guest]

There was a mini-epidemic (think it was measles) in Sebastopol, CA at

one school some years ago. The local press came down unmercifully on

the parents of unvaccinated kids. J.

[Guest guest]

>From: DreamsAvA@...

>Reply-bowel cleanseonelist

>bowel cleanseonelist

>Subject: Re: vaccines

>Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 05:09:11 EDT

>

>From: DreamsAvA@...

>

>. It angers me so to hear you say that cmarcus has 'mental health'

>problems, not only becuase it is rude, and wrong, but it is such a

>reflection of how the human minds can not comprehend things they have never

>heard before and supresses very valuable information. This has happened

>throughout history. Genuises and true visionaries in science and life are

>usually treated as mad men becuase people do not understand them. It

>sometimes takes years after their death for people to catch up with them.

>Tesla, Wilhelm Reich, Einstien, Newton, Beethoven, Jesus, Vangoe, ( to name

>a

>few )...These people were told to have 'mental health' problems too... most

>people are afraid of what they do not understand. Things are not true

>just

>because it is accepted by society. Information is always growing and

>changing, evolving. It is this thinking that you have demonstrated that

>slows down this growth of information and communication. You are not alone,

>it seems to be about 90% of the population. It is the nature in which we

>have

>been taught/shown/brainwashed how to percieve. Hearing something new for

>the

>first time can be scarry, yet that does not make it 'crazy.' I know it

>seems

>safer to believe that cmarcus is off is rocker, life would be alot more

>pleseant if you were right, but it isn't that simple. It is a choice.

>When

>one becomes seriously ill perceptions about such things begin to change. I

>hope for you sake that you don't ever have to go through that. ( Ignorance

>is

>bliss until your in trouble and need help) Please do not judge others who

>have a need to seek the truth.

>thank you, Julee

>

Julee

Your anger is of no concern to me.

If cmarcus does not have mental problems then just

what is his problem?

Maybe you have some of the same mental health problems!

I can read and I do understand what I read AND I DONT NEED

PEOPLE TRYING TO FORCE INFORMATION AND THEIR PERSONAL BELIEFS DOWN MY

THROAT! I CAN MAKE UP MY OWN MIND!

Do you think the RN Bill has mental health problems too

because he has a career in medicine?

Why does cmarcus and others on this list try to bash Bill and

everyone else who is in medicine? WHY?

There are three types of people.

There are those who are achievers!

There are those who are underachievers!

There are those who are non-achievers!

It looks to me that Bill is one of the achivers

and cmarcus is one of the non-achivers!

>---------------------------

[Guest guest]

, I think you asked cmarcus about this and he provided information

for you to read. Nothing was being forced. ( amazing ) Becuase you do not

understand something it does not make it insaine. It just means you don't

understand it. Don't get me started on philosophy. And no, I do not think

Bill is insaine. No one is bashing anyone for being involved in

western medicine. We are only defending accusations of things we have learned

or read about. It just comes to a point of thinking things through and seeing

the WHOLE picture not just half. When someone is preaching from half the

picture without seeing the other side, it is annouying and exhuasting to

hear. When one begans researching " alternative " health resources it is

becasue they have exhausted their resources for help from the medical

industry, in which times is of no help for many, many illnesses. For some

reason the people who are throwing out " rude " comments are the ones accusing

others of having mental problems. This is just human nature, unfortuneatly

Julee

[Guest guest]

Please, everybody, stop this kind of aggressive SPAM (mental health problems,

achievers - non-achievers).

This is a list, where people are looking for help and understanding, not for

judgements (which, BTW, only

say someting about the person, who does them).

If necessary at all, please do it privately, or found an extra list for spamming

at each other.

Health and love to everybody, who is truly seeking for it!

nne Sievert

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\

---------------------------------------------

> Message: 4

> Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 23:20:51 CDT

> From: christine bethune <chrisbeth85@...>

> Subject: Re: vaccines

> Julee

> Your anger is of no concern to me.

> If cmarcus does not have mental problems then just

> what is his problem?

> Maybe you have some of the same mental health problems!

> I can read and I do understand what I read AND I DONT NEED

> PEOPLE TRYING TO FORCE INFORMATION AND THEIR PERSONAL BELIEFS DOWN MY

> THROAT! I CAN MAKE UP MY OWN MIND!

> Do you think the RN Bill has mental health problems too

> because he has a career in medicine?

> Why does cmarcus and others on this list try to bash Bill and

> everyone else who is in medicine? WHY?

> There are three types of people.

> There are those who are achievers!

> There are those who are underachievers!

> There are those who are non-achievers!

> It looks to me that Bill is one of the achivers

> and cmarcus is one of the non-achivers!

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree totally! Thanks for writing. Jean

On Sat, 26 Jun 1999 09:43:13 MDT Wayne <brendawayne5@...>

writes:

>From: Wayne <brendawayne5@...>

>

>

>

>> ... et al:

>

>While it is true that vaccines have done a lot of good in the world,

>it is

>equally true that they are not as innocent as a walk in the park on a

>Sunday

>afternoon.

>

>In our community a little boy was vaccinated and within weeks began to

>lose

>his control of muscles. Within about two years he was dead of

>complications

>derived from his muscle or nerve deterioration. The doctors just don't

>know

>what his problem was.

>

>The medical community can hide behind statistics and the law of

>scientific

>elimination (that is, we don't know for sure that it was the vaccine

>that

>caused his illness and death) but you can't convince his mother. She

>knows

>that a normal, healthy little boy suddenly became serious ill after

>getting

>vaccinated and lived a life of hell before he died. Hummm ... some

>coincidence.

>

>Of course this kind of reaction is a minority but, ,

>vaccination is

>a game of chance. You can win and you can lose. I was vaccinated as a

>child

>and I'm fine but that is not always the case.

>

>Now, as far as non-vaccinated people being a carrier of disease, as

>you

>implied. That could be true. It is equally true that well-fed

>children

>develop strong immune systems. Children who eat refined and preserved

>foods

>are at risk of getting whatever comes along. If you want to question

>something (and it is good that you do), question our modern diet and

>lifestyle. It's a killer.

>

>

>

>---------------------------

[Guest guest]

Dear edith,

I couldn't even find Hallelujah Acres website address in their book!

Thanks for this response!

Blessings Jean

On Sun, 27 Jun 1999 09:33:36 EDT Es9525@... writes:

>From: Es9525@...

>

>In a message dated 6/26/99 9:16:39 PM Central Daylight Time,

>chrisbeth85@... writes:

>

><< For mr.marcus

> I read the material on the web pages plus I read all

> of the material in the archives.

> I think you have very serious mental health problems!

> Why are you so anti-medical!

> I put far more trust in medicine and what Bill the RN has told

>me

> than anything that you have stated so far!

> I do not appreciate you unloading your personal rabid beliefs

> on me! I dont need or desire your negative attitudes and extremely

>poor

> research skills and slanted view points. What are your

>qualifications and

> expertise in medicine? Science?

> You seem to be the type of person who reads books But do not

>understand what

> you have read but then you turn around and try to pass yourself off

>as some

> kind of expert on the subject!

> I will say this! The people on this list are extremely fortunate

> to have Bill who is a highly skilled registered nurse with

> outstanding medical qualifications who is willing to take the time

> to share information with you.

>

> >>

>

>,

>

>Please go to www.hacres.com then scroll down until you see

>recommened

>articles,

>please click and find a wealth of information not only about this

>subject but

>about many more. This organization has many MD s to it's credit. So

>if it's

>a medical opinion you want, here it is.

>edith

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> -

>

>---------------------------

[Guest guest]

thanks for this response, Julee! It troubled me, too. Jean

On Sun, 27 Jun 1999 05:09:11 EDT DreamsAvA@... writes:

>From: DreamsAvA@...

>

>. It angers me so to hear you say that cmarcus has 'mental

>health'

>problems, not only becuase it is rude, and wrong, but it is such a

>reflection of how the human minds can not comprehend things they have

>never

>heard before and supresses very valuable information. This has

>happened

>throughout history. Genuises and true visionaries in science and life

>are

>usually treated as mad men becuase people do not understand them. It

>sometimes takes years after their death for people to catch up with

>them.

>Tesla, Wilhelm Reich, Einstien, Newton, Beethoven, Jesus, Vangoe, ( to

>name a

>few )...These people were told to have 'mental health' problems too...

>most

>people are afraid of what they do not understand. Things are not

>true just

>because it is accepted by society. Information is always growing and

>changing, evolving. It is this thinking that you have demonstrated

>that

>slows down this growth of information and communication. You are not

>alone,

>it seems to be about 90% of the population. It is the nature in which

>we have

>been taught/shown/brainwashed how to percieve. Hearing something new

>for the

>first time can be scarry, yet that does not make it 'crazy.' I know

>it seems

>safer to believe that cmarcus is off is rocker, life would be alot

>more

>pleseant if you were right, but it isn't that simple. It is a choice.

> When

>one becomes seriously ill perceptions about such things begin to

>change. I

>hope for you sake that you don't ever have to go through that. (

>Ignorance is

>bliss until your in trouble and need help) Please do not judge others

>who

>have a need to seek the truth.

>thank you, Julee

>

>---------------------------

[Guest guest]

>From: " Lila O. O'Brien " <thegardeners@...>

>Reply-bowel cleanseonelist

>bowel cleanseonelist

>Subject: Re: vaccines

>Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 03:19:50 EDT

>

>From: " Lila O. O'Brien " <thegardeners@...>

>

>I agree totally! Thanks for writing. Jean

>

>On Sat, 26 Jun 1999 09:43:13 MDT Wayne <brendawayne5@...>

>writes:

> >From: Wayne <brendawayne5@...>

> >

> >

> >

> >> ... et al:

> >

> >While it is true that vaccines have done a lot of good in the world,

> >it is

> >equally true that they are not as innocent as a walk in the park on a

> >Sunday

> >afternoon.

> >

> >In our community a little boy was vaccinated and within weeks began to

> >lose

> >his control of muscles. Within about two years he was dead of

> >complications

> >derived from his muscle or nerve deterioration. The doctors just don't

> >know

> >what his problem was.

> >

> >The medical community can hide behind statistics and the law of

> >scientific

> >elimination (that is, we don't know for sure that it was the vaccine

> >that

> >caused his illness and death) but you can't convince his mother. She

> >knows

> >that a normal, healthy little boy suddenly became serious ill after

> >getting

> >vaccinated and lived a life of hell before he died. Hummm ... some

> >coincidence.

> >

> >Of course this kind of reaction is a minority but, ,

> >vaccination is

> >a game of chance. You can win and you can lose. I was vaccinated as a

> >child

> >and I'm fine but that is not always the case.

> >

> >Now, as far as non-vaccinated people being a carrier of disease, as

> >you

> >implied. That could be true. It is equally true that well-fed

> >children

> >develop strong immune systems. Children who eat refined and preserved

> >foods

> >are at risk of getting whatever comes along. If you want to question

> >something (and it is good that you do), question our modern diet and

> >lifestyle. It's a killer.

> >

> >

Hi

I too was vaccinated as a child and had no problems!

Have you ask Bill the Rn to respond to this e-mail message.

He and the other person seem to be going at it neck to neck.

However,I believe that Bill is more correct than the other person. Diet is

very important but I also lean in favor toward what Bill is saying more than

what the other person is saying.Bill does have excellent medical

qualifications and he also has excellent alternative

health qualifications as well.I dont know what qualifications the other

person has and I do not understand why he seems so anti-medical.

As far as the vaccines are concerned I would rather take my chances with the

vaccines in an effort to protect my children than sit back and do nothing

and watch my children die from something that I could have prevented in the

first place.

I did not mean to be rude to anyone on this list but there was just to much

information for me to handle too quickly all at one time.I just hope that

everyone understands what happened and why I made the remarks that I made.

> >

> >---------------------------

[Guest guest]

>From: " Lila O. O'Brien " <thegardeners@...>

>Reply-bowel cleanseonelist

>bowel cleanseonelist

>Subject: Re: vaccines

>Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 03:19:50 EDT

>

>From: " Lila O. O'Brien " <thegardeners@...>

>

>I agree totally! Thanks for writing. Jean

>

>On Sat, 26 Jun 1999 09:43:13 MDT Wayne <brendawayne5@...>

>writes:

> >From: Wayne <brendawayne5@...>

> >

> >

> >

> >> ... et al:

> >

Hi ....et al

Thank you for the e-mail.

I would like to have answers to these questions also so I am sending this

message to Bill the RN and see if he can help us out.

> >While it is true that vaccines have done a lot of good in the world,

> >it is

> >equally true that they are not as innocent as a walk in the park on a

> >Sunday

> >afternoon.

> >

> >In our community a little boy was vaccinated and within weeks began to

> >lose

> >his control of muscles. Within about two years he was dead of

> >complications

> >derived from his muscle or nerve deterioration. The doctors just don't

> >know

> >what his problem was.

> >

> >The medical community can hide behind statistics and the law of

> >scientific

> >elimination (that is, we don't know for sure that it was the vaccine

> >that

> >caused his illness and death) but you can't convince his mother. She

> >knows

> >that a normal, healthy little boy suddenly became serious ill after

> >getting

> >vaccinated and lived a life of hell before he died. Hummm ... some

> >coincidence.

> >

> >Of course this kind of reaction is a minority but, ,

> >vaccination is

> >a game of chance. You can win and you can lose. I was vaccinated as a

> >child

> >and I'm fine but that is not always the case.

> >

> >Now, as far as non-vaccinated people being a carrier of disease, as

> >you

> >implied. That could be true. It is equally true that well-fed

> >children

> >develop strong immune systems. Children who eat refined and preserved

> >foods

> >are at risk of getting whatever comes along. If you want to question

> >something (and it is good that you do), question our modern diet and

> >lifestyle. It's a killer.

> >

> >

> >

> >---------------------------

[Guest guest]

I agree, . of NM

On Tue, 29 Jun 1999 09:26:08 -0400 " Marcus " <cmarcus@...>

writes:

>From: " Marcus " <cmarcus@...>

>

>> From: Wayne <brendawayne5@...>

>>

>>

>>

>>> ... et al:

>>

>> While it is true that vaccines have done a lot of good in the

>> world, it is equally true that they are not as innocent as a

>> walk in the park on a Sunday afternoon.

>

>I would even challenge this statement.

>

>Evidence clearly shows that the incidence of all of the

>diseases SUPPOSEDLY wiped out by vaccines were already

>well on their way to disappearing BEFORE the vaccines

>were introduced.

>

>--

>

> Marcus

>

>---------------------------

[Guest guest]

that article makes tons of sense.....

--- Jim Blanco <kblanco@...> wrote:

> By Aimee Howd

> howd@...

>

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> ----

>

> Thousands of parents have described injuries in

> their kids that they believe

> are linked to shots. But the research community

> maintains the claims have no

> scientific merit.

>

> The safety and efficacy of the 12 million doses of

> vaccines approved by the

> federal government, mandated in states and

> administered to American children

> every year will receive unrelenting scrutiny in

> Washington as long as

> Republican Rep. Dan Burton of Indiana has anything

> to say about it. “I

> stated at the Aug. 3 hearing [published as Vaccines

> — Finding the Balance

> Between Public Safety and Personal Choice] that as

> long as I remain chairman

> of the Government Reform Committee, we are going to

> continue looking into

> vaccine issues, and I will keep my word,” Burton

> tells Insight.

> On Dec. 9, 1993, the congressman’s daughter,

> le Burton Sarkine,

> took her 5-week-old daughter, , to her

> pediatrician for a dose of the

> hepatitis B vaccine. The infant responded to the

> shot with high-pitched

> screams and was inconsolable. She still was crying

> hours later when her

> parents put her into her crib for the night.

> Checking on her when the cries

> at last subsided, they found a parent’s worst

> nightmare: had stopped

> breathing. le began CPR immediately and the

> baby gasped her first

> breath just as paramedics arrived. spent an

> intense three-and-a-half

> weeks in the hospital but went home with a clean

> bill of health.

> Not so for her little brother, Christian. On

> June 1, 1998, this happy

> 14-month-old received nine vaccines in one day. His

> mother says his entire

> disposition changed overnight. By the next day, he

> was screaming. Within a

> week and a half the baby had begun slamming his head

> on the floor, slapping

> himself and banging his head against a wall. Soon he

> was diagnosed with mild

> to moderate autism, a condition that is manageable

> but chronic. Since his

> immunizations, Christian’s life has been a series of

> therapy sessions for

> speech and developmental disorders.

> Coincidence? Among the pieces of the puzzle

> publicized by Insight:

>

>

>

> Rates of autism have skyrocketed. However,

> public-health officials say

> better diagnostics account for the 273 percent

> increase in cases reported in

> California during the last 11 years.

>

> An average of 13,000 reports of neurological and

> autoimmune trauma following

> on the heels of vaccination, especially the

> hepatitis B inoculation, have

> been filed annually since 1990 with the Vaccine

> Adverse Event Reporting

> System, a voluntary program, at the Food and Drug

> Administration, or FDA.

> Yet many public-health officials interviewed for

> this article claim the

> reported events are coincidental, reveal no patterns

> and are not worth

> investigating.

>

> Since the 1930s, when children often received just

> one vaccination, many

> immunizations have contained a 49.6 percent mercury

> preservative called

> thimerosal. Most children today receive 33 doses of

> 10 vaccines by age 5,

> generally receiving several vaccines per visit on

> their immunization

> schedules. Reports surfaced in 1999 that infants

> being vaccinated using

> multi-dose vials, such as hepatitis B and MMR

> (measles, mumps and rubella),

> with thimerosal can receive 62.5 micrograms of

> mercury per visit. This is

> 100 times the exposure federal Environmental

> Protection Guidelines consider

> safe for the average-sized infant, as mercury is

> known to cause

> neurotoxicity and brain damage that mirrors the

> symptoms of autism. The

> Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, or CDC,

> is encouraging the

> development of thimerosal-free doses and has

> withdrawn its recommendation

> that infants receive the thimerosal-containing

> hepatitis B vaccine at birth.

> However, the CDC maintains that mercury in vaccines

> never has caused an

> adverse reaction and is not pulling

> thimerosal-containing vaccines off the

> shelves.

>

> Oral polio vaccines contain live viruses that can

> cause polio and are being

> replaced with a killed-virus version. The DTP

> (diphtheria, tetanus and

> pertussis) inoculation, acknowledged within the

> federal government to be the

> source of brain damage in some cases, still is on

> the market; a modified

> version, the DTaP, is said to be safer and is

> commonly used. The MMR vaccine

> has been a suspected cause of autism for more than a

> decade. The rotavirus

> inoculation, a vaccine against usually mild

> diarrhea, was recalled last year

> after it was found to cause bowel blockage and

> collapse in infants.

>

> According to Prober of Stanford

> University, an American

> Academy of Pediatrics spokesman on immunizations,

> “Each of the individual

> vaccines has some recognized side effects with

> varying degrees of frequency”

> but scientifically documented severe reactions are

> “very rare. And autism

> has not been shown to be caused by vaccines in any

> sort of credible study.

> Measles shots are given at 15 to 18 months of age —

> and autism typically

> appears about the same time. The same [temporal

> association] is true for

> many of the other autoimmune and chronic neurologic

> disorders.” He adds,

> “Anything that is reasonably plausible in terms of

> how vaccines interact

> with immune and neurologic systems are vigorously

> explored. Vaccine

> developers, governmental organizations and

> manufacturers have a vested

> interest in understanding them.”

> Nonetheless, after comparing stories with

> other parents around the

> country, Sarkine and her father began to wonder

> whether government-mandated

> vaccines had become a severe children’s health

> problem. Sarkine has become

> an activist for autism awareness and parental

> consent in vaccinations. She’s

> the Indiana representative for Unlocking Autism, an

> organization founded in

> 1998 by two mothers whose children suffered

> experiences similar to those of

> Christian and .

> Burton’s committee held several hearings in

> 1999 to examine claims by

> health-care consumers and advocacy groups that

> vaccines have caused

> thousands of injuries and deaths, claims which

> government health agencies

> and vaccine manufacturers largely have discounted.

> They point out that many

> theories implicating vaccines as injurious are

> founded on anecdotal

> evidence, not solid scientific research.

> But Burton wouldn’t be dissuaded by FDA and

> CDC denials, saying in

> last year’s hearings, “We as a government can no

> longer keep our heads

> buried in the sand like an ostrich, pretending there

> is no problem.” The

> hearings provided a platform for parents whose

> skepticism about vaccines has

> continued to grow in the face of government and

> industry insistence that

> they are perfectly safe.

> One parent who caught Burton’s attention is

> Rick Rollens, former

> secretary of the California Senate and father of a

> 9-year-old boy whose

> autism he believes was triggered by vaccinations.

> With other concerned

> parents he founded the M.I.N.D. Institute to conduct

> research into the

> incidence, causes and treatments of autism and other

> neurodevelopmental

> disorders. Their initial study found a 273 percent

> increase in cases of

> severe autism in California during the last 11

> years. Other

> neurodevelopmental disabilities such as mental

> retardation also increased —

> but only at a population-adjusted rate. Through the

> late 1970s, only 100 to

> 200 new cases of autism were reported each year. In

> 1998, new cases reported

> to the public-school system were 1,425. That number

> jumped another 36

> percent to 1,944 in 1999.

> Perhaps it’s coincidence that each upsurge in

> autism has followed the

> introduction and mandate of a new vaccine in the

> state, Rollens observes.

> But he’s raising millions of dollars to find out.

> “Vaccines contain numerous

> active agents such as live viruses, bacterial

> agents, preservatives and

> toxic chemicals, including formaldehyde and mercury,

> as well as human,

> animal and plant RNA. Not a single safety study has

> ever been done on the

> short-term or long-term effects of the interaction

> of this potent cocktail

> of numerous multiply active agents on the developing

> brain and immune

> systems of our children,” Rollens testified before

> Congress. “I must ask the

> public-health community: Where is the science?”

> In April, Burton’s committee will hear more

> testimony on the possible

> link between autism and immunizations. “From my

> family’s experience and from

> our hearings, I know how devastating this is to the

> entire family,” he tells

> Insight.

> But even vaccine naysayers do not insist that

> childhood inoculations

> are all bad — or even mostly bad. Their strictest

> critics acknowledge that

> vaccinations may be the most successful

> public-health triumph in American

> history. The CDC statistics make this clear. The

> worst year for diphtheria,

> for instance, was an incidence of 206,939 cases in

> 1921, its worst

> pre-vaccine year. In 1998, thanks to inoculation,

> only one case was

> reported. More than 21,000 cases of polio were

> reported in 1952, but in 1998

> none was seen. Measles hit more than 894,134 people

> in 1951, its worst year.

> Vaccinations cut the caseload to 100 in 1998.

> But if some kids are vulnerable to harm from

> vaccines and their

> adverse reactions can be prevented, parents need to

> know. “As much as

> parents value the public-health successes, they

> don’t want to see their

> injured children written off as statistically

> insignificant,” says Barbara

> Loe Fisher, who founded the nation’s most

> comprehensive vaccine

> consumer-advocacy organization, the National Vaccine

> Information Center, in

> Vienna, Va., after her son suffered brain damage

> following a DPT shot in the

> early 1980s. “They want to be taken seriously. They

> want to know how

> vaccines interact with their children’s immune and

> neurological systems so

> that appropriate treatments can be developed. They

> want other parents to

> have the full information on what factors contribute

> to risks of adverse

> reactions so that they can weigh the costs and

> benefits for themselves and

> make informed decisions on which vaccinations to use

> and when.”

> “I only have two grandchildren, and both of

> them had adverse events,”

> says Burton. “In my family, that is statistically

> significant.” The

> congressman’s daughter adds, “The only person that

> has stood by me on this

> has been Dad. The manufacturer is not going to step

> up to the plate. I don’t

> know if the FDA and the CDC are ever going to. I

> constantly get calls from

> people with autism — from people just dying to speak

> with him.”

> Fisher sees 1999 as a turning point in the

> battle to secure more

> research into the safety and efficacy of vaccines

> and to have

> informed-consent provisions taken seriously. In the

> NVIC’s end-of-the-year

> report, she said she saw an upswing in “public

> recognition that the vaccine

> safety and informed-consent issue is a serious one,

> with a significant

> medical, legislative, social and political history

> behind it.”

> The NVIC report says the sea change in public

> perception began in

> January 1999 when ABC’s 20/20 ran an investigative

> report on the hepatitis B

> vaccine publicizing interviews with health-care

> workers who were

> experiencing arthritis, muscle and nerve damage and

> vision and memory loss

> after receiving the shot. By the next month the

> debate had begun to spread

> through articles in Insight and other print media.

> “The media are beginning

> to realize this is not a black-and-white issue. It’s

> not about being

> pro-vaccine or antivaccine,” says Fisher. “It’s not

> about using every

> vaccine according to government standards or

> recommendations or using no

> vaccines. It’s about having information and being

> able to make informed

> choices. It’s also about reforming the

> mass-vaccination system to make it

> safer.”

> In addition to the national congressional

> hearings, debate in many

> state legislatures was intense as parent groups

> battled pharmaceutical

> lobbyists to alert lawmakers to widespread concern

> and to push through

> legislation allowing parents to choose not to

> vaccinate their children.

> But is anyone among the vaccine manufacturers

> acknowledging these

> concerns or investing in research to make vaccines

> safer? “No,” says Fisher.

> “I think because they have such a tremendous

> investment in future vaccines,

> they are very reluctant to admit that they’ve got

> problems with current

> vaccines.” A 1995 study by research firm Frost &

> Sullivan projected that the

> worldwide vaccine market would skyrocket from $2.9

> billion to $7 billion by

> 2001. At least 200 more vaccines are in development,

> including mandatory

> shots to protect 12-year-olds against sexually

> transmitted diseases (see

> chart, p. 19). Unlike the situations with almost any

> other medical product,

> pharmaceutical companies can pursue vaccine

> development and licensure nearly

> risk-free, thanks to indemnity assured them by

> Congress in 1986 when it

> established the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.

> Within the guidelines

> of this program, parents who believe their children

> have been injured by

> vaccines can’t sue the manufacturers directly. The

> General Accounting Office

> reported last month that families whose children

> have been injured by

> vaccines have experienced undue difficulty obtaining

> assistance from the

> compensation fund.

> Parents need to know their options, says

> Burton. “Parents certainly

> need to have more information about their rights and

> about vaccines

> themselves,” he says. He recommends that parents get

> a copy of the package

> insert of every vaccine their child is to receive

> before setting up a

> vaccination appointment and that they prepare

> questions for their

> pediatricians. Because some people believe risks for

> adverse reactions to

> vaccines to be higher when a child’s immune system

> is weak, Burton adds,

> “The health of the child should take precedence over

> the convenience of

> keeping a child on shot schedule. A child with the

> sniffles or other illness

> should not be vaccinated.”

> Burton says he has heard reports that some

> schools have refused to

> enroll unvaccinated children even when their

> families have received

> exemptions allowed by their states. “Families need

> to be informed of their

> exemption rights prior to vaccination and their

> decision should be respected

> by the medical community and school officials.”

> Leading vaccine developer and public-health

> proponent Neal Halsey’s

> response to Insight’s initial vaccine investigation

> reflects the sentiments

> of many leading officials (see “Ounce of Prevention,

> Pound of Misery?”,

> March 22, 1999). “Bad things happen to people all

> the time. It’s unfortunate

> that we don’t know the causes of many of those.”

> Consulted for this article

> about whether the growing controversies about

> vaccines have changed his

> views, he reiterates: “Just because something bad

> happened after a vaccine

> does not mean that the vaccine caused the problem.”

> Halsey heads the

> Institute for Vaccine Safety at s Hopkins

> University, which receives

> research-grant support from government sources

> including the FDA and the

> World Health Organization and educational-grant

> support from vaccine

> manufacturers such as Merck & Co., Kline

> Beecham, North American

> Vaccine and Pasteur Mirieux Connaught.

> “Until we do independent scientific studies,

> allowing subspecialties

> like immunology, cell biology and molecular biology

> to come in and evaluate

> the precise effects of these vaccines on the human

> body, we’re not going to

> have the answers to the questions we’re asking,”

> says Fisher. “I think this

> year has been important because there has been

> recognition that vaccines do

> cause significant side effects. And there’s

> beginning to be recognition in

> Congress that we’ve got to fund studies.”

> Indeed, Burton says, “I anticipate a series

> of hearings looking at

> varying issues regarding vaccine policy development,

> vaccine research and,

> where necessary, vaccines themselves.”

>

>

>

> <!--See my SuperSig:

> http://proxy.supersig.com/sig?45002326_45002140-->

> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE>See my SuperSig:

>

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> id=45002326_45002140 " ><IMG

>

SRC= " http://supersig.com/images/sigmaker/button_getyours.gif "

> ALT= " get your

> supersig! " HSPACE=227 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0

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>

>

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>

[Guest guest]

I thought you would enjoy reading it.

Kathy

Re: [ ] vaccines

>that article makes tons of sense.....

>

>

>--- Jim Blanco <kblanco@...> wrote:

>> By Aimee Howd

>> howd@...

>>

>---------------------------------------------------------------------------

-

>> ----

>>

>> Thousands of parents have described injuries in

>> their kids that they believe

>> are linked to shots. But the research community

>> maintains the claims have no

>> scientific merit.

>>

>> The safety and efficacy of the 12 million doses of

>> vaccines approved by the

>> federal government, mandated in states and

>> administered to American children

>> every year will receive unrelenting scrutiny in

>> Washington as long as

>> Republican Rep. Dan Burton of Indiana has anything

>> to say about it. “I

>> stated at the Aug. 3 hearing [published as Vaccines

>> — Finding the Balance

>> Between Public Safety and Personal Choice] that as

>> long as I remain chairman

>> of the Government Reform Committee, we are going to

>> continue looking into

>> vaccine issues, and I will keep my word,” Burton

>> tells Insight.

>> On Dec. 9, 1993, the congressman’s daughter,

>> le Burton Sarkine,

>> took her 5-week-old daughter, , to her

>> pediatrician for a dose of the

>> hepatitis B vaccine. The infant responded to the

>> shot with high-pitched

>> screams and was inconsolable. She still was crying

>> hours later when her

>> parents put her into her crib for the night.

>> Checking on her when the cries

>> at last subsided, they found a parent’s worst

>> nightmare: had stopped

>> breathing. le began CPR immediately and the

>> baby gasped her first

>> breath just as paramedics arrived. spent an

>> intense three-and-a-half

>> weeks in the hospital but went home with a clean

>> bill of health.

>> Not so for her little brother, Christian. On

>> June 1, 1998, this happy

>> 14-month-old received nine vaccines in one day. His

>> mother says his entire

>> disposition changed overnight. By the next day, he

>> was screaming. Within a

>> week and a half the baby had begun slamming his head

>> on the floor, slapping

>> himself and banging his head against a wall. Soon he

>> was diagnosed with mild

>> to moderate autism, a condition that is manageable

>> but chronic. Since his

>> immunizations, Christian’s life has been a series of

>> therapy sessions for

>> speech and developmental disorders.

>> Coincidence? Among the pieces of the puzzle

>> publicized by Insight:

>>

>>

>>

>> Rates of autism have skyrocketed. However,

>> public-health officials say

>> better diagnostics account for the 273 percent

>> increase in cases reported in

>> California during the last 11 years.

>>

>> An average of 13,000 reports of neurological and

>> autoimmune trauma following

>> on the heels of vaccination, especially the

>> hepatitis B inoculation, have

>> been filed annually since 1990 with the Vaccine

>> Adverse Event Reporting

>> System, a voluntary program, at the Food and Drug

>> Administration, or FDA.

>> Yet many public-health officials interviewed for

>> this article claim the

>> reported events are coincidental, reveal no patterns

>> and are not worth

>> investigating.

>>

>> Since the 1930s, when children often received just

>> one vaccination, many

>> immunizations have contained a 49.6 percent mercury

>> preservative called

>> thimerosal. Most children today receive 33 doses of

>> 10 vaccines by age 5,

>> generally receiving several vaccines per visit on

>> their immunization

>> schedules. Reports surfaced in 1999 that infants

>> being vaccinated using

>> multi-dose vials, such as hepatitis B and MMR

>> (measles, mumps and rubella),

>> with thimerosal can receive 62.5 micrograms of

>> mercury per visit. This is

>> 100 times the exposure federal Environmental

>> Protection Guidelines consider

>> safe for the average-sized infant, as mercury is

>> known to cause

>> neurotoxicity and brain damage that mirrors the

>> symptoms of autism. The

>> Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, or CDC,

>> is encouraging the

>> development of thimerosal-free doses and has

>> withdrawn its recommendation

>> that infants receive the thimerosal-containing

>> hepatitis B vaccine at birth.

>> However, the CDC maintains that mercury in vaccines

>> never has caused an

>> adverse reaction and is not pulling

>> thimerosal-containing vaccines off the

>> shelves.

>>

>> Oral polio vaccines contain live viruses that can

>> cause polio and are being

>> replaced with a killed-virus version. The DTP

>> (diphtheria, tetanus and

>> pertussis) inoculation, acknowledged within the

>> federal government to be the

>> source of brain damage in some cases, still is on

>> the market; a modified

>> version, the DTaP, is said to be safer and is

>> commonly used. The MMR vaccine

>> has been a suspected cause of autism for more than a

>> decade. The rotavirus

>> inoculation, a vaccine against usually mild

>> diarrhea, was recalled last year

>> after it was found to cause bowel blockage and

>> collapse in infants.

>>

>> According to Prober of Stanford

>> University, an American

>> Academy of Pediatrics spokesman on immunizations,

>> “Each of the individual

>> vaccines has some recognized side effects with

>> varying degrees of frequency”

>> but scientifically documented severe reactions are

>> “very rare. And autism

>> has not been shown to be caused by vaccines in any

>> sort of credible study.

>> Measles shots are given at 15 to 18 months of age —

>> and autism typically

>> appears about the same time. The same [temporal

>> association] is true for

>> many of the other autoimmune and chronic neurologic

>> disorders.” He adds,

>> “Anything that is reasonably plausible in terms of

>> how vaccines interact

>> with immune and neurologic systems are vigorously

>> explored. Vaccine

>> developers, governmental organizations and

>> manufacturers have a vested

>> interest in understanding them.”

>> Nonetheless, after comparing stories with

>> other parents around the

>> country, Sarkine and her father began to wonder

>> whether government-mandated

>> vaccines had become a severe children’s health

>> problem. Sarkine has become

>> an activist for autism awareness and parental

>> consent in vaccinations. She’s

>> the Indiana representative for Unlocking Autism, an

>> organization founded in

>> 1998 by two mothers whose children suffered

>> experiences similar to those of

>> Christian and .

>> Burton’s committee held several hearings in

>> 1999 to examine claims by

>> health-care consumers and advocacy groups that

>> vaccines have caused

>> thousands of injuries and deaths, claims which

>> government health agencies

>> and vaccine manufacturers largely have discounted.

>> They point out that many

>> theories implicating vaccines as injurious are

>> founded on anecdotal

>> evidence, not solid scientific research.

>> But Burton wouldn’t be dissuaded by FDA and

>> CDC denials, saying in

>> last year’s hearings, “We as a government can no

>> longer keep our heads

>> buried in the sand like an ostrich, pretending there

>> is no problem.” The

>> hearings provided a platform for parents whose

>> skepticism about vaccines has

>> continued to grow in the face of government and

>> industry insistence that

>> they are perfectly safe.

>> One parent who caught Burton’s attention is

>> Rick Rollens, former

>> secretary of the California Senate and father of a

>> 9-year-old boy whose

>> autism he believes was triggered by vaccinations.

>> With other concerned

>> parents he founded the M.I.N.D. Institute to conduct

>> research into the

>> incidence, causes and treatments of autism and other

>> neurodevelopmental

>> disorders. Their initial study found a 273 percent

>> increase in cases of

>> severe autism in California during the last 11

>> years. Other

>> neurodevelopmental disabilities such as mental

>> retardation also increased —

>> but only at a population-adjusted rate. Through the

>> late 1970s, only 100 to

>> 200 new cases of autism were reported each year. In

>> 1998, new cases reported

>> to the public-school system were 1,425. That number

>> jumped another 36

>> percent to 1,944 in 1999.

>> Perhaps it’s coincidence that each upsurge in

>> autism has followed the

>> introduction and mandate of a new vaccine in the

>> state, Rollens observes.

>> But he’s raising millions of dollars to find out.

>> “Vaccines contain numerous

>> active agents such as live viruses, bacterial

>> agents, preservatives and

>> toxic chemicals, including formaldehyde and mercury,

>> as well as human,

>> animal and plant RNA. Not a single safety study has

>> ever been done on the

>> short-term or long-term effects of the interaction

>> of this potent cocktail

>> of numerous multiply active agents on the developing

>> brain and immune

>> systems of our children,” Rollens testified before

>> Congress. “I must ask the

>> public-health community: Where is the science?”

>> In April, Burton’s committee will hear more

>> testimony on the possible

>> link between autism and immunizations. “From my

>> family’s experience and from

>> our hearings, I know how devastating this is to the

>> entire family,” he tells

>> Insight.

>> But even vaccine naysayers do not insist that

>> childhood inoculations

>> are all bad — or even mostly bad. Their strictest

>> critics acknowledge that

>> vaccinations may be the most successful

>> public-health triumph in American

>> history. The CDC statistics make this clear. The

>> worst year for diphtheria,

>> for instance, was an incidence of 206,939 cases in

>> 1921, its worst

>> pre-vaccine year. In 1998, thanks to inoculation,

>> only one case was

>> reported. More than 21,000 cases of polio were

>> reported in 1952, but in 1998

>> none was seen. Measles hit more than 894,134 people

>> in 1951, its worst year.

>> Vaccinations cut the caseload to 100 in 1998.

>> But if some kids are vulnerable to harm from

>> vaccines and their

>> adverse reactions can be prevented, parents need to

>> know. “As much as

>> parents value the public-health successes, they

>> don’t want to see their

>> injured children written off as statistically

>> insignificant,” says Barbara

>> Loe Fisher, who founded the nation’s most

>> comprehensive vaccine

>> consumer-advocacy organization, the National Vaccine

>> Information Center, in

>> Vienna, Va., after her son suffered brain damage

>> following a DPT shot in the

>> early 1980s. “They want to be taken seriously. They

>> want to know how

>> vaccines interact with their children’s immune and

>> neurological systems so

>> that appropriate treatments can be developed. They

>> want other parents to

>> have the full information on what factors contribute

>> to risks of adverse

>> reactions so that they can weigh the costs and

>> benefits for themselves and

>> make informed decisions on which vaccinations to use

>> and when.”

>> “I only have two grandchildren, and both of

>> them had adverse events,”

>> says Burton. “In my family, that is statistically

>> significant.” The

>> congressman’s daughter adds, “The only person that

>> has stood by me on this

>> has been Dad. The manufacturer is not going to step

>> up to the plate. I don’t

>> know if the FDA and the CDC are ever going to. I

>> constantly get calls from

>> people with autism — from people just dying to speak

>> with him.”

>> Fisher sees 1999 as a turning point in the

>> battle to secure more

>> research into the safety and efficacy of vaccines

>> and to have

>> informed-consent provisions taken seriously. In the

>> NVIC’s end-of-the-year

>> report, she said she saw an upswing in “public

>> recognition that the vaccine

>> safety and informed-consent issue is a serious one,

>> with a significant

>> medical, legislative, social and political history

>> behind it.”

>> The NVIC report says the sea change in public

>> perception began in

>> January 1999 when ABC’s 20/20 ran an investigative

>> report on the hepatitis B

>> vaccine publicizing interviews with health-care

>> workers who were

>> experiencing arthritis, muscle and nerve damage and

>> vision and memory loss

>> after receiving the shot. By the next month the

>> debate had begun to spread

>> through articles in Insight and other print media.

>> “The media are beginning

>> to realize this is not a black-and-white issue. It’s

>> not about being

>> pro-vaccine or antivaccine,” says Fisher. “It’s not

>> about using every

>> vaccine according to government standards or

>> recommendations or using no

>> vaccines. It’s about having information and being

>> able to make informed

>> choices. It’s also about reforming the

>> mass-vaccination system to make it

>> safer.”

>> In addition to the national congressional

>> hearings, debate in many

>> state legislatures was intense as parent groups

>> battled pharmaceutical

>> lobbyists to alert lawmakers to widespread concern

>> and to push through

>> legislation allowing parents to choose not to

>> vaccinate their children.

>> But is anyone among the vaccine manufacturers

>> acknowledging these

>> concerns or investing in research to make vaccines

>> safer? “No,” says Fisher.

>> “I think because they have such a tremendous

>> investment in future vaccines,

>> they are very reluctant to admit that they’ve got

>> problems with current

>> vaccines.” A 1995 study by research firm Frost &

>> Sullivan projected that the

>> worldwide vaccine market would skyrocket from $2.9

>> billion to $7 billion by

>> 2001. At least 200 more vaccines are in development,

>> including mandatory

>> shots to protect 12-year-olds against sexually

>> transmitted diseases (see

>> chart, p. 19). Unlike the situations with almost any

>> other medical product,

>> pharmaceutical companies can pursue vaccine

>> development and licensure nearly

>> risk-free, thanks to indemnity assured them by

>> Congress in 1986 when it

>> established the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.

>> Within the guidelines

>> of this program, parents who believe their children

>> have been injured by

>> vaccines can’t sue the manufacturers directly. The

>> General Accounting Office

>> reported last month that families whose children

>> have been injured by

>> vaccines have experienced undue difficulty obtaining

>> assistance from the

>> compensation fund.

>> Parents need to know their options, says

>> Burton. “Parents certainly

>> need to have more information about their rights and

>> about vaccines

>> themselves,” he says. He recommends that parents get

>> a copy of the package

>> insert of every vaccine their child is to receive

>> before setting up a

>> vaccination appointment and that they prepare

>> questions for their

>> pediatricians. Because some people believe risks for

>> adverse reactions to

>> vaccines to be higher when a child’s immune system

>> is weak, Burton adds,

>> “The health of the child should take precedence over

>> the convenience of

>> keeping a child on shot schedule. A child with the

>> sniffles or other illness

>> should not be vaccinated.”

>> Burton says he has heard reports that some

>> schools have refused to

>> enroll unvaccinated children even when their

>> families have received

>> exemptions allowed by their states. “Families need

>> to be informed of their

>> exemption rights prior to vaccination and their

>> decision should be respected

>> by the medical community and school officials.”

>> Leading vaccine developer and public-health

>> proponent Neal Halsey’s

>> response to Insight’s initial vaccine investigation

>> reflects the sentiments

>> of many leading officials (see “Ounce of Prevention,

>> Pound of Misery?”,

>> March 22, 1999). “Bad things happen to people all

>> the time. It’s unfortunate

>> that we don’t know the causes of many of those.”

>> Consulted for this article

>> about whether the growing controversies about

>> vaccines have changed his

>> views, he reiterates: “Just because something bad

>> happened after a vaccine

>> does not mean that the vaccine caused the problem.”

>> Halsey heads the

>> Institute for Vaccine Safety at s Hopkins

>> University, which receives

>> research-grant support from government sources

>> including the FDA and the

>> World Health Organization and educational-grant

>> support from vaccine

>> manufacturers such as Merck & Co., Kline

>> Beecham, North American

>> Vaccine and Pasteur Mirieux Connaught.

>> “Until we do independent scientific studies,

>> allowing subspecialties

>> like immunology, cell biology and molecular biology

>> to come in and evaluate

>> the precise effects of these vaccines on the human

>> body, we’re not going to

>> have the answers to the questions we’re asking,”

>> says Fisher. “I think this

>> year has been important because there has been

>> recognition that vaccines do

>> cause significant side effects. And there’s

>> beginning to be recognition in

>> Congress that we’ve got to fund studies.”

>> Indeed, Burton says, “I anticipate a series

>> of hearings looking at

>> varying issues regarding vaccine policy development,

>> vaccine research and,

>> where necessary, vaccines themselves.”

>>

>>

>>

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[Guest guest]

We've discussed the importance of our getting vaccines for flu and Hepatitis A and B. (These vaccines are not based on live viruses and are safe for people using Imuran.)

I believe we may need to get one more vaccine, for pneumonia. As I remember it, I was given the pneumonia vaccine just after I was diagnosed with AIH. My memory is pretty blurry for things that happened about then, so you should check with your own doctor to make sure that this vaccine is appropriate for you.

To quote Consumer Reports, of all things, "Anyone who has chronic heart, lung, or liver disease, diabetes, sickle-cell disease, alcoholism, or compromised immunity or who has had spleen removed. Also for adults 65 and up. Five-year booster needed for people who got first shot before age 65 or who are at extremely high risk."

Harper (AIH 5/00)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/3/01 7:53:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time, tdcc2000@... writes:

Harper, where do we get these shots? I talked to my GI and she said it would be OK for me to get them. I don't know if I get them at my GP or where?

debby

I don't know the answer for you. I got the pneumo and the flu vaccine in my GP's office and the hepatitis vaccines in my gastro's office, both at my HMO. (Grammatically, I loathe abbreviations and acronyms, but they do work!)

Harper