Re: Xpost: How do I balance the tx of PANDAS, yeast and bacteria? Vicious cycle!!

[Guest guest]

Comments intersped....

I really need some advice from some parents who have been down this road for

some time. My kids have pandas and are therefore on prophylactic antibiotics

(zithro, once a week). We are on a vicious cycle of yeast and bacteria (namely,

klebsiella).

I believe the ABX can keep you in this vicious cycle for time on... While it is

keeping the pandas under control, the GI flora is swept away every time by the

ABX. I know it isn't fun, but every time I have to use ABX, I prefer IM

administration so the GI tract is spared from direct exposition...

If your kids are officially dxd w pandas, would your insurance pay for IVIG? Or

ever considered using Zhang's herbs? Like artemisiae or houttuynia? Great

against strep but must be used with care , they are very strong.

Our dan doc prefers the use of diflucan and vancomycin and high dose probiotics

to control it. But I find that I have to use BOTH diflucan and vanco, otherwise

I get control of one and the other one flares. Not so uncommon, I know.

Doesn't seem to me uncommon at all either, yeast and klebsiella are

opportunistic and if the GI flora is weak they will always keep coming back...

The same happens w clostridia, often times when you treat yeast, clostridia

flares. It is also related to the HM toxicity, this bugs stick when in proper

environment, if you sTart treating HM toxicity they might get worse for a time,

and when the soil is not as fertile (acid) for them, they will eventually start

to weaken, along w proper treatment. Try to boost their immune system too, it

shall help.

But what do I do now? We are about 1 week into vanco/diflucan and I am

wondering if, when we are done with this round, I should just have my son on a

permanent rotation of antimicrobials? I mean, it seems like this negates the

point of the high dose probiotics, doesn't it?

Not necessarily, you give the probiotics hours away from antimicrobials/ABX so

that they can really colonize the GI tract.

I am weary of ABX and necessary as they might sometimes be, I would never do

them w/o high dose probiotics. What probiotics are you giving?

What is their diet?

I was thinking about the following (4 days of each): Uva Ursi, Olive Leaf

Extract, Oil of Oregano. I came up with this on my own b/c each seems to have

antimicrobial action against strep, yeast and bacteria. Is this a sound plan? Am

I missing something?

I think having a good enzyme on board to avoid phenol issues could be helpful,

all the a.m can cause phenol sensitive kids to go wacko.

Since all of this can cause die-off, I would also add a good toxin-excretion

supporter and liver support, for liver, slippery elm, castor oil packs, to aide

with toxin excretion, activated charcoal at midnight (I know, more work),

L-citrulline, burbur and electrolyte water to keep proper hydration and toxins

moving out.

Is there really any way to stabalize these kids while on zithromax? I mean

should I just stop the zithro and rely on the natural antimicrobials to prevent

strep? Will that work?

I wouldn't stop abruptly, rather try to see how they work independently and if

you see + or - then try to reduce the ABX slowly.

Enviado desde mi oficina móvil BlackBerry® de Telcel

[ ] Xpost: How do I balance the tx of PANDAS, yeast and

bacteria? Vicious cycle!!

I really need some advice from some parents who have been down this road for

some time. My kids have pandas and are therefore on prophylactic antibiotics

(zithro, once a week). We are on a vicious cycle of yeast and bacteria (namely,

klebsiella). Our dan doc prefers the use of diflucan and vancomycin and high

dose probiotics to control it. But I find that I have to use BOTH diflucan and

vanco, otherwise I get control of one and the other one flares. Not so uncommon,

I know. But what do I do now? We are about 1 week into vanco/diflucan and I am

wondering if, when we are done with this round, I should just have my son on a

permanent rotation of antimicrobials? I mean, it seems like this negates the

point of the high dose probiotics, doesn't it?

I was thinking about the following (4 days of each): Uva Ursi, Olive Leaf

Extract, Oil of Oregano. I came up with this on my own b/c each seems to have

antimicrobial action against strep, yeast and bacteria. Is this a sound plan? Am

I missing something?

Is there really any way to stabalize these kids while on zithromax? I mean

should I just stop the zithro and rely on the natural antimicrobials to prevent

strep? Will that work?

[Guest guest]

I actually wondered about IM ABX as well. I was thinking that would be the best

route. When I asked this question of my DAN dr-he said if the ABX are killing

something in the gut then the IM shot doesn't do it. So I guess it depends on

what you are trying to do.

SHannon

>

> Comments intersped....

>

> I really need some advice from some parents who have been down this road for

some time. My kids have pandas and are therefore on prophylactic antibiotics

(zithro, once a week). We are on a vicious cycle of yeast and bacteria (namely,

klebsiella).

>

> I believe the ABX can keep you in this vicious cycle for time on... While it

is keeping the pandas under control, the GI flora is swept away every time by

the ABX. I know it isn't fun, but every time I have to use ABX, I prefer IM

administration so the GI tract is spared from direct exposition...

> If your kids are officially dxd w pandas, would your insurance pay for IVIG?

Or ever considered using Zhang's herbs? Like artemisiae or houttuynia? Great

against strep but must be used with care , they are very strong.

>

>

> Our dan doc prefers the use of diflucan and vancomycin and high dose

probiotics to control it. But I find that I have to use BOTH diflucan and vanco,

otherwise I get control of one and the other one flares. Not so uncommon, I

know.

>

> Doesn't seem to me uncommon at all either, yeast and klebsiella are

opportunistic and if the GI flora is weak they will always keep coming back...

The same happens w clostridia, often times when you treat yeast, clostridia

flares. It is also related to the HM toxicity, this bugs stick when in proper

environment, if you sTart treating HM toxicity they might get worse for a time,

and when the soil is not as fertile (acid) for them, they will eventually start

to weaken, along w proper treatment. Try to boost their immune system too, it

shall help.

>

> But what do I do now? We are about 1 week into vanco/diflucan and I am

wondering if, when we are done with this round, I should just have my son on a

permanent rotation of antimicrobials? I mean, it seems like this negates the

point of the high dose probiotics, doesn't it?

>

> Not necessarily, you give the probiotics hours away from antimicrobials/ABX

so that they can really colonize the GI tract.

> I am weary of ABX and necessary as they might sometimes be, I would never do

them w/o high dose probiotics. What probiotics are you giving?

> What is their diet?

>

>

> I was thinking about the following (4 days of each): Uva Ursi, Olive Leaf

Extract, Oil of Oregano. I came up with this on my own b/c each seems to have

antimicrobial action against strep, yeast and bacteria. Is this a sound plan? Am

I missing something?

>

> I think having a good enzyme on board to avoid phenol issues could be helpful,

all the a.m can cause phenol sensitive kids to go wacko.

> Since all of this can cause die-off, I would also add a good toxin-excretion

supporter and liver support, for liver, slippery elm, castor oil packs, to aide

with toxin excretion, activated charcoal at midnight (I know, more work),

L-citrulline, burbur and electrolyte water to keep proper hydration and toxins

moving out.

>

> Is there really any way to stabalize these kids while on zithromax? I mean

should I just stop the zithro and rely on the natural antimicrobials to prevent

strep? Will that work?

> I wouldn't stop abruptly, rather try to see how they work independently and if

you see + or - then try to reduce the ABX slowly.

>

>

>

> Enviado desde mi oficina móvil BlackBerry® de Telcel

>

> [ ] Xpost: How do I balance the tx of PANDAS, yeast and

bacteria? Vicious cycle!!

>

> I really need some advice from some parents who have been down this road for

some time. My kids have pandas and are therefore on prophylactic antibiotics

(zithro, once a week). We are on a vicious cycle of yeast and bacteria (namely,

klebsiella). Our dan doc prefers the use of diflucan and vancomycin and high

dose probiotics to control it. But I find that I have to use BOTH diflucan and

vanco, otherwise I get control of one and the other one flares. Not so uncommon,

I know. But what do I do now? We are about 1 week into vanco/diflucan and I am

wondering if, when we are done with this round, I should just have my son on a

permanent rotation of antimicrobials? I mean, it seems like this negates the

point of the high dose probiotics, doesn't it?

>

> I was thinking about the following (4 days of each): Uva Ursi, Olive Leaf

Extract, Oil of Oregano. I came up with this on my own b/c each seems to have

antimicrobial action against strep, yeast and bacteria. Is this a sound plan? Am

I missing something?

>

> Is there really any way to stabalize these kids while on zithromax? I mean

should I just stop the zithro and rely on the natural antimicrobials to prevent

strep? Will that work?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Stick with natural yeast fighters and chelate, worry about PANDAS/viral stuff

later. Chelation can resolve these things without the need for all the " extras "

(antibiotics/antivirals/etc).

The fact that you say you are on a vicious cycle of yeast and bacteria means to

me that your children are intolerant of either food(s) or supplement(s) that you

have not identified. Or maybe you are fighting a battle that cannot be won

because of the environment! (bacteria/virus/parasite living in cal/mag/iron rich

environment because lead/aluminum/mercury displaced them and they remain

displaced!) Do you see now how chelation ONLY could resolve this?

In my experience if there is chronic yeast, it is best to take away and keep

taking away until you see improvement...THEN you can do a trial of adding a new

supplement one at a time.

Good luck,

Liz

>

> I really need some advice from some parents who have been down this road for

some time. My kids have pandas and are therefore on prophylactic antibiotics

(zithro, once a week). We are on a vicious cycle of yeast and bacteria (namely,

klebsiella). Our dan doc prefers the use of diflucan and vancomycin and high

dose probiotics to control it. But I find that I have to use BOTH diflucan and

vanco, otherwise I get control of one and the other one flares. Not so uncommon,

I know. But what do I do now? We are about 1 week into vanco/diflucan and I am

wondering if, when we are done with this round, I should just have my son on a

permanent rotation of antimicrobials? I mean, it seems like this negates the

point of the high dose probiotics, doesn't it?

>

> I was thinking about the following (4 days of each): Uva Ursi, Olive Leaf

Extract, Oil of Oregano. I came up with this on my own b/c each seems to have

antimicrobial action against strep, yeast and bacteria. Is this a sound plan? Am

I missing something?

>

> Is there really any way to stabalize these kids while on zithromax? I mean

should I just stop the zithro and rely on the natural antimicrobials to prevent

strep? Will that work?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have to disagree w your DAN.... If I understand it right, in this case the

treating Dr is prescribing the ABX for Pandas first of all, and pandas is a

systemic infection, not based in the gut. As for the klebsiella, it is a

bacterial infection, klebsiella can be found practically everywhere.... It is

very opportunistic, thus I mentioned I believe it is very important to boost the

IS. I also think Vanco is a very strong medication and I would think the

treating MD has used other methods before grabbing to this last retort.

Prolonged use of vanco can induce severe candida and encourage the growth of

more dangerous resistant bacteria, such as C difficils. My personal experience

having a gut kid who suffered diarrhea for 2.5 yrs, is that ABX did nothing

but worsen the situation for him. It was a radical change in his diet, the use

of raw plant oils and essential oils (like cinnamon, coconut oil, clove,

geranium, lime and orange oils), BIG doses of probiotics, that allowed me to

now have a potty-trained kid, not ABX. When I was using ABxs, the more I used

them, the more different pathogens came back in his tests, switching from one

drug to another only to get a new unwanted host announce itself, he showed +

for klebsiella, candida, proteus, e.coli, you name it... It is my humble

opinion, that no matter how much ABxs you throw into a kid's tummy, if the good

bugs are not rescued and strengthened first, and the body gets detoxified, the

bad guys will keep coming back...and oral ABx will support the bad guys as is.

Oh, I do understand sometimes there is no way around, I just mean, if you can do

it some other way, I feel it is better. I also think keeping this bad bugs

under control is important to avoid a crisis, but I also believe that none of

this will be independently solved as long as the kids are so toxic.

Just my 0.02

Isa

Enviado desde mi oficina móvil BlackBerry® de Telcel

[ ] Xpost: How do I balance the tx of PANDAS, yeast and

bacteria? Vicious cycle!!

>

> I really need some advice from some parents who have been down this road for

some time. My kids have pandas and are therefore on prophylactic antibiotics

(zithro, once a week). We are on a vicious cycle of yeast and bacteria (namely,

klebsiella). Our dan doc prefers the use of diflucan and vancomycin and high

dose probiotics to control it. But I find that I have to use BOTH diflucan and

vanco, otherwise I get control of one and the other one flares. Not so uncommon,

I know. But what do I do now? We are about 1 week into vanco/diflucan and I am

wondering if, when we are done with this round, I should just have my son on a

permanent rotation of antimicrobials? I mean, it seems like this negates the

point of the high dose probiotics, doesn't it?

>

> I was thinking about the following (4 days of each): Uva Ursi, Olive Leaf

Extract, Oil of Oregano. I came up with this on my own b/c each seems to have

antimicrobial action against strep, yeast and bacteria. Is this a sound plan? Am

I missing something?

>

> Is there really any way to stabalize these kids while on zithromax? I mean

should I just stop the zithro and rely on the natural antimicrobials to prevent

strep? Will that work?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: stephanieweeks@...

====>Are you chelating? We had chelated for about a year and a half before

the Zithromax and did not have the seesaw yeast/bacteria cycle. You will never

get rid of any of the problems completely until you remove enough of the metals

so that the immune system can help. So the answer to stabilization is removing

the metals, which yeast/bacteria/Zithromax treatment will not do.

I really need some advice from some parents who have been down this road for

some time. My kids have pandas and are therefore on prophylactic antibiotics

(zithro, once a week). We are on a vicious cycle of yeast and bacteria (namely,

klebsiella). Our dan doc prefers the use of diflucan and vancomycin and high

dose probiotics to control it. But I find that I have to use BOTH diflucan and

vanco, otherwise I get control of one and the other one flares. Not so uncommon,

I know. But what do I do now? We are about 1 week into vanco/diflucan and I am

wondering if, when we are done with this round, I should just have my son on a

permanent rotation of antimicrobials? I mean, it seems like this negates the

point of the high dose probiotics, doesn't it?

I was thinking about the following (4 days of each): Uva Ursi, Olive Leaf

Extract, Oil of Oregano. I came up with this on my own b/c each seems to have

antimicrobial action against strep, yeast and bacteria. Is this a sound plan? Am

I missing something?

Is there really any way to stabalize these kids while on zithromax? I mean

should I just stop the zithro and rely on the natural antimicrobials to prevent

strep? Will that work?