Guest guest Posted April 26, 2010 Report Share Posted April 26, 2010 I rhink there are some relatively recent opinions posted by Andy which still say he believes OSR isn't a safe option. > > I just got this post from the autism action plan group and thought Id post here for any one interested. > > Karla > > -- The following message was posted by Kurt Woeller (DrKurtWoeller) in the " Other Therapies " category. All replies to this e-mail will be sent to the group -- > > For those of you interested in Dr. Haley's response regarding OSR and its 1/2 life. I did receive an email back from Dr. Haley. Here was his response: > > * " OSR has a plasma and organ half-life of 6 to 7 hours in test animals (rats). It peaks at 2 hours after ingestion in the plasma and all organs we tested (brain, kidney, liver, intestines, bone marrow, epidermal and internal fat tissues). At 24 hours after ingestion the plasma and organ levels are down to 4-12% of the peak values at 2 hours. I have taken OSR three times daily for over a year, early morning, noon and evening based on the 6-7 hour plasma half life. My health analysis is excellent, I have no build up of OSR, no loss of essential minerals (we checked this out long ago), and I feel quite healthy. I have been taking OSR 3 ½ years. My blood glutathione is 1580 whereas the average is 669, so I am in good shape with regards to this oxidative stress marker----and I had no signs of any other oxidative stress markers at my last physical. This information has been on our website for quite a long time. I think the comments of Dr. Cutler are quite old and keep being brought up by those that may not want OSR to be used. " > * > > I hope this helps, > > Dr. Woeller > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2010 Report Share Posted April 26, 2010 I would agree. We are doing AC protocol and dont plan on changing that. Id like to see alot more data beyond the rats and Dr Haley as test subjects. But I also know the topic comes up periodically here and since this was a recent response, I wasnt sure if there was anything new to look at. Karla > > > > I just got this post from the autism action plan group and thought Id post here for any one interested. > > > > Karla > > > > -- The following message was posted by Kurt Woeller (DrKurtWoeller) in the " Other Therapies " category. All replies to this e-mail will be sent to the group -- > > > > For those of you interested in Dr. Haley's response regarding OSR and its 1/2 life. I did receive an email back from Dr. Haley. Here was his response: > > > > * " OSR has a plasma and organ half-life of 6 to 7 hours in test animals (rats). It peaks at 2 hours after ingestion in the plasma and all organs we tested (brain, kidney, liver, intestines, bone marrow, epidermal and internal fat tissues). At 24 hours after ingestion the plasma and organ levels are down to 4-12% of the peak values at 2 hours. I have taken OSR three times daily for over a year, early morning, noon and evening based on the 6-7 hour plasma half life. My health analysis is excellent, I have no build up of OSR, no loss of essential minerals (we checked this out long ago), and I feel quite healthy. I have been taking OSR 3 ½ years. My blood glutathione is 1580 whereas the average is 669, so I am in good shape with regards to this oxidative stress marker----and I had no signs of any other oxidative stress markers at my last physical. This information has been on our website for quite a long time. I think the comments of Dr. Cutler are quite old and keep being brought up by those that may not want OSR to be used. " > > * > > > > I hope this helps, > > > > Dr. Woeller > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2010 Report Share Posted April 27, 2010 An unpublished study on a dozen mice does not adequately establish a half life in humans to make it ethical to use something in them. Calling information " old " suggests the doctor is a liberal arts major and views this all as fad and fashion, not as a technical field where he is giving dangerous chemicals to living humans. This is the attitude that led to the autism holocaust in the first place - doctors didn't accept that when you administered a toxic dose of mercury in vaccines it was toxic even if they didn't mean to hurt anyone. Otherwise it is a response devoid of information. This is not surprising since all the points in my prior critique are valid and correct, so there is no possible legitimate response to them. I also don't think an N=1 human study is good enough to rely on when giving what is in essence an unapproved experimental new drug being sold as a nutritional supplement to children. After all, the study that caused Heroin to be turned loose on the world as a nonaddictive substitute for morphine actually had THREE people in it - who by chance turned out to be among the 7% of the population not subject to opiate addiction - and you can imagine the havoc that wreaked in the 1920's. It was so bad heroin continues to be illegal in the US to this day. Dr. Haley admitted lack of relevant technical knowledge (and demonstrated it as well). Dr. Woeller is not providing any technical information. His assurance that OSR is safe seems eerily similar to the assurances most of you got that vaccines are totally safe when your pediatrician turned your kid autistic. I do hope that someone will bother to respond to my points with relevant technical details instead of advertizing hype. Until then I hope that parents have learned from their heartbreaking experiences and won't let yet another doctor hurt their kid by just promising 'everything is fine' without providing the technical back-up to support that claim. Andy http://www.noamalgam.com/index.html Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities http://www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html Nourishing Hope for Autism: Nutrition Intervention for Healing Our Children http://www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html Biological Treatments for Autism and PDD > > I just got this post from the autism action plan group and thought Id post here for any one interested. > > Karla > > -- The following message was posted by Kurt Woeller (DrKurtWoeller) in the " Other Therapies " category. All replies to this e-mail will be sent to the group -- > > For those of you interested in Dr. Haley's response regarding OSR and its 1/2 life. I did receive an email back from Dr. Haley. Here was his response: > > * " OSR has a plasma and organ half-life of 6 to 7 hours in test animals (rats). It peaks at 2 hours after ingestion in the plasma and all organs we tested (brain, kidney, liver, intestines, bone marrow, epidermal and internal fat tissues). At 24 hours after ingestion the plasma and organ levels are down to 4-12% of the peak values at 2 hours. I have taken OSR three times daily for over a year, early morning, noon and evening based on the 6-7 hour plasma half life. My health analysis is excellent, I have no build up of OSR, no loss of essential minerals (we checked this out long ago), and I feel quite healthy. I have been taking OSR 3 ½ years. My blood glutathione is 1580 whereas the average is 669, so I am in good shape with regards to this oxidative stress marker----and I had no signs of any other oxidative stress markers at my last physical. This information has been on our website for quite a long time. I think the comments of Dr. Cutler are quite old and keep being brought up by those that may not want OSR to be used. " > * > > I hope this helps, > > Dr. Woeller > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2010 Report Share Posted April 28, 2010 Someone kindly pointed out that I didn't read this carefully enough when I made my prior reply. I replied as if it was from Dr. Woeller, this actually is Dr. Haley's response. > For those of you interested in Dr. Haley's response regarding OSR and its 1/2 life. I did receive an email back from Dr. Haley. Here was his response: > > * " OSR has a plasma and organ half-life of 6 to 7 hours in test animals (rats). In a dozen of them, in one experiment, by one investigator who hasn't published the results. This really is not good enough information to assert a half life in humans. There should be both replication of the rat studies by other investigators, publication of all studies or at least presentation in a form similarly detailed to what one would use in publication, and at least some measurements in actual human beings, e. g. blood concentrations at 2 and 8 hours after oral ingestion in a dozen people. >It peaks at 2 hours after ingestion in the plasma and all organs we tested (brain, kidney, liver, intestines, bone marrow, epidermal and internal fat tissues). At 24 hours after ingestion the plasma and organ levels are down to 4-12% of the peak values at 2 hours. Simply repeating information provided earlier does not advance the argument. Generally what Dr. Haley is doing here is to avoid the progressive flow of thought that constitutes argument in favor of just repeating information already shown to be flawed. For progress in understanding to be made, those arguing really need to be ethical and respond to each other's reasoning point by point, moving the argument forward until they can reach some points of agreement rather than just continually reiterating the same point so as to avoid the possiblity of conceding anything. >I have taken OSR three times daily for over a year, early morning, noon and evening based on the 6-7 hour plasma half life. My health analysis is excellent, I have no build up of OSR, no loss of essential minerals (we checked this out long ago), and I feel quite healthy. I have been taking OSR 3 ½ years. My blood glutathione is 1580 whereas the average is 669, so I am in good shape with regards to this oxidative stress marker----and I had no signs of any other oxidative stress markers at my last physical. I admire Dr. Haley's fortitude in choosing to be the first human test subject. However there is a long history of horrible catastrophes due to release of drugs where the investigators used themselves as test subjects rather than relying on a large enough group selected to represent the population who actually would use the stuff. E. g. thalidomide, heroin. Information on a couple of dozen more human subjects, including measurement of OSR blood levels for kinetics, would be very much more convincing. Also a technical note: OSR is the type of compound that will be an interference in most assays for glutathione. I'd like to know the details of the assay and how they are sure the result truly represents glutathione, rather than (glutathione + OSR). >This information has been on our website for quite a long time. I think the comments of Dr. Cutler are quite old and keep being brought up by those that may not want OSR to be used. " This is a nice rhetorical device. Dr. Haley admits the information he is presenting is old (saying it has been on their website for quite a long time) then accuses me of using " old information, " as if that was relevant. It doesn't matter if the information is old or new, accuracy is what counts. I presented accurate information that I believe shows it is not ethical to sell or prescribe or dispense OSR for many reasons, Dr. Haley has not rebutted or even addressed any of it. Dr. Haley in his prior communication stated he had no special expertise regarding chelation (and made it clear that was true). Take it from someone who DOES have special expertise regarding chelation, there is not enough information to have any reasonable likelihood of understanding how to use OSR safely. In my opinion it is not ethical to sell it, prescribe it, dispense it, or encourage people to use it outside the context of a situation where they understand they are taking essentially the same risks as someone in a phase 1 or 2 clinical trial of an experimental new drug. I understand that ethics involves personal values and opinions may differ on this, but I find it truly shocking they differ so profoundly in this case. But then I also find it truly shocking that most physicians continue to administer mercury laden vaccines to infants even today (e. g. the H1N1 flu shot, which the health departments made a special exception for even in states like Washington that legally prohibit the use of mercury preserved vaccines in children). Obviously, reasoning is not working in conveying my legitimate (and correct) technical concerns to Dr. Haley and DAN! doctors - they aren't taking any actions to address these concerns, or to control risks from the unknown factors that motivate these concerns. If anyone else has a better idea of how to convince them, please go for it! Andy PS, the original interaction between Dr. Haley and myself is reproduced below for your reference. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ A message purported to be Boyd Haley's response to me is circulating on the internet. I believe it is appropriate for me to respond to it with some further useful information. I have cut my responses into this message, and also appended the message in full at the end of the `discussion' so there can be no question I have not taken it out of context in any way. It is of course possible, given the joys of digital communications, that this message has been forwarded many times and may have been modified so that it does not accurately convey Dr. Haley's views, or may not have been intended as anything other than a private message to a single specific recipient (and may thus have been imprecise and not well wordsmithed for completely reasonable reasons). However all I can do is respond to it as is and if there have been any modifications or statements not accurately conveying Dr. Haley's thoughts I hope he will feel free to correct those. I'll be forwarding him a courtesy copy of this privately, and to Dr. Flatabø if I can find a valid email address for him, as well as circulating it publicly. Anyone who wishes may forward this or repost it provided that the entire message, without any modification is posted and any additional commentary is clearly identified as such and ONLY appears at the beginning of the message. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Dr. Haley's original message (preceded by > >) with my comments ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > > Boyd Haleys Response to Andy Cutlers " message " > > Geir Flatabø > > > > First, the only claim made for OSR is that it is a lipid soluble, dietary > > antioxidant that scavenges free radicals and helps maintain a healthy > > glutathione level. Maintaining a healthy glutathione level can possibly > > help detox the body of any toxin that is carried out of the body as a > > glutathione complex, and this includes many heavy metals as well as toxic > > organic molecules that are attached to glutathione by the enzyme > > glutathione-S-transferase after the oxidation by the Phase II P-450 > > enzymes. > > > > > > > > I know of Andy Cutler and have read his book and I agree that he has > > proposed a detox scheme involving LPA (lipoic acid) that I have found quite > > reasonable as I am also not a fan of using toxic chelators. However, this > > detox scheme has not effectively reversed the oxidative stress (as measured > > by low reduced glutathione levels) in many who have tried it, or so I am > > told. This may be due to the fact that LPA ( has a disulfide linkage and > > already in the oxidized form and unable to bind any metal in its delivered > > form) can add to the oxidized stress level as LPA (lipoic acid) has to be > > reduced to the dihydrolipoic acid (dihydro-LPA) form before it can bind to > > any metal. This reduction of LPA to dihydro-LPA requires reducing > > potential and reduces the body's ability to produce reduced glutathione > > since both the reduction of oxidized LPA and oxidized Glutathione (GSSG) are > > biochemical steps that consume reducing equivalents in the form of the basic > > molecule(s) NAD(P)H. Using a beginning oxidized molecule to treat > > patients who are already under oxidative stress is not the best approach in > > my opinion. One big difference between OSR and LPA is one is totally in > > the reduced form (OSR) and one is in the oxidized form (LPA). Another > > difference is OSR is without a charge and LPA has a negatively charged acid > > group on it, this likely could change the partitioning in the cell membrane > > and fatty tissues. Further, google " lipoic acid MSDS " and the material > > safety data sheet will give you a LD-50 value, do the same with vitamin E. > > We could not determine a LD-50 of OSR and the group that tested its safety > > stated the LD-50 is above 5 grams/kg body weight. Just because something > > is natural does not mean it is safe. > > > > > > > > Also, Andy makes some comments about me that are just not true. I have > > taught graduate level biochemistry/physiology courses since 1974, > > specializing in biochemical kinetics/thermodynamics and bioenergetics. My > > area of research expertise for over 30 years was to use novel, chemically > > synthesized compounds to unravel problems in energy utilizing enzymes and > > pathways. Without hopefully sounding like a braggart, I was quite > > successful. I certainly do understand chemical and biochemical > > kinetics/thermodynamics and how certain compounds pass through the membranes > > and organs of mammals. I have had a huge amount of NIH funds over many > > years to study such phenomenon and sat on NIH Study Section Panels for many > > years helping evaluate federal grants. My past training and experience > > has played a major role in my research success. > > > > > > > > No one in medicine totally understands all of the intricacies required for > > heavy metal detox or movement of chemicals around the body and I am not > > claiming exceptional knowledge. I just claim to be a solid, well trained > > scientist that knows how to design and test certain compounds to accomplish > > specific goals and how to test them to make sure they are as safe as one can > > possibly predetermine them to be. I then know enough to proceed slow and > > easy with the help of other well trained associates doing the monitoring > > until maximum safety and efficiency is established or not. What bothers > > me about Andy Cutler's article is that he judges my work but does not know > > what I have done, or what I can disclose and cannot disclose and still be of > > immediate help to many. He is interpreting going slow and doing careful > > work as not having done essential studies and this is not the case. Initially, > > the compound was not offered to anyone except those who were capable of > > testing it slowly and carefully. Andy's concerns as mentioned in his > > missive are those that any careful person would test for, and we did, with > > safety being the highest priority. I can also assure you that the DAN > > doctors couldn't have been more cautious in regards to evaluating OSR and it > > is today not a " DAN " approved procedure. We recently just started and > > much work was done before any OSR was provided to anyone. > > > > > > > > In the recent past we have obtained pharmacokinetic studies on OSR, data on > > OSR's oxygen radical absorbance capacity and identification of the > > metabolites of OSR in human liver homogenates. We know that OSR peaks in > > the plasma and all tested organs after two hours post ingestion, at 24 hours > > post ingestion the levels are between 4 to 12% of the two hour peak values. > > OSR was found to enter the cells of all tissues tested, and to be excreted, > > most likely as an oxidized species as indicted by the mass spectrometry data > > obtained with liver homogenates. This study indicated that the first two > > main products of OSR modification by liver homogenates were those with 2 and > > 3 oxygens attached to the arm with the sulfhydryl attached as would be > > expected for a free radical scavenger. > > > > > > > > OSR did not concentrate in the brain and was effectively excreted from this > > organ. While I cannot assure one of the mechanism it is well known that > > most compounds taken into the body are excreted by mechanisms that protect > > the brain from excess exposure. I think the same is true of OSR, it is > > obviously being excreted by a mechanism that is designed to removed > > compounds with oxidized sulfhydryls. Do note the similarity of the > > sulfhydryl containing arms of OSR to that of reduced glutathione. This > > was put in the design of OSR on purpose to take advantage of any > > characteristic that would allow additional safety and utility. > > > > > > > > Finally, Andy's comments about LPA being a superior binding agent because > > it forms a six membered ring is seriously flawed, the affinity of binding > > any specific metal depends a lot on the angle of binding that specific > > (coordination chemistry) and a six membered ring is only considered the most > > stable or sterically favored if the angle is that of a carbon atom, not any > > metal. For example, the most stable bond angle of the two bonds of Hg2+ > > is 180o, consider that there is no way a 180o bond angle can be formed > > with Hg2+ in a six membered ring consisting of 5 carbons as found in > > dihydro-LPA. > > > > > > > > Boyd E. Haley, PhD Andy http://www.noamalgam.com/index.html Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities http://www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html Nourishing Hope for Autism: Nutrition Intervention for Healing Our Children http://www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html Biological Treatments for Autism and PDD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2010 Report Share Posted April 28, 2010 Talk about a passion for getting to the truth of the matter, (of Understanding, for our selves?) and for exposing slights of deception, otherwise? .. . Dr. Cutler, (Andy?) you only have to point out that what the other is saying (whoever?) isn't properly validated... with what you're doing with respect to the voluntary/ communication/ ethical thing? (!) of making sense as you do, for as much, I'd be Feeling.. . You simply ! (of so much to simplify, no doubt) That's pretty much the essence of It! I Feel (of what I Feel we should be doing of one of the dimensions of Understanding More? if not life..) which I realize the other wouldn't like to see you get away with, of the/thier problem? somewhat? (no doubt) so easily, of their self-serving (if not delusional) obfuscating BS? .. . that I need wishful thinking (guinea-pig expectations?) or hope (inspiration?) like that, if you know what *I* mean, but I suspect you do.. . (The fine *analyst* you are I see little in what you're saying and doing (of saying?!.) that doesn't make sense, of all that I've read, (of your example!) but I'm not of the view that I *have* to, read everything you've said, to understand as much... of you, of Everything, so True (of such game if not abuse if not knowledge, otherwise.. . I find there is really no lie to any part of the truth! Thanks for sharing (and caring) as much as you do Best wishes, Thereof Mike Glavic I'll stay away from OSR whatever it is.. . > > > > Boyd Haleys Response to Andy Cutlers " message " > > > > Geir Flatabø > > > > > > > First, the only claim made for OSR is that it is a lipid soluble, dietary > > > antioxidant that scavenges free radicals and helps maintain a healthy > > > glutathione level. Maintaining a healthy glutathione level can possibly > > > help detox the body of any toxin that is carried out of the body as a > > > glutathione complex, and this includes many heavy metals as well as toxic > > > organic molecules that are attached to glutathione by the enzyme > > > glutathione-S-transferase after the oxidation by the Phase II P-450 > > > enzymes. > > > > > > > > > > > > I know of Andy Cutler and have read his book and I agree that he has > > > proposed a detox scheme involving LPA (lipoic acid) that I have found quite > > > reasonable as I am also not a fan of using toxic chelators. However, this > > > detox scheme has not effectively reversed the oxidative stress (as measured > > > by low reduced glutathione levels) in many who have tried it, or so I am > > > told. This may be due to the fact that LPA ( has a disulfide linkage and > > > already in the oxidized form and unable to bind any metal in its delivered > > > form) can add to the oxidized stress level as LPA (lipoic acid) has to be > > > reduced to the dihydrolipoic acid (dihydro-LPA) form before it can bind to > > > any metal. This reduction of LPA to dihydro-LPA requires reducing > > > potential and reduces the body's ability to produce reduced glutathione > > > since both the reduction of oxidized LPA and oxidized Glutathione (GSSG) are > > > biochemical steps that consume reducing equivalents in the form of the basic > > > molecule(s) NAD(P)H. Using a beginning oxidized molecule to treat > > > patients who are already under oxidative stress is not the best approach in > > > my opinion. One big difference between OSR and LPA is one is totally in > > > the reduced form (OSR) and one is in the oxidized form (LPA). Another > > > difference is OSR is without a charge and LPA has a negatively charged acid > > > group on it, this likely could change the partitioning in the cell membrane > > > and fatty tissues. Further, google " lipoic acid MSDS " and the material > > > safety data sheet will give you a LD-50 value, do the same with vitamin E. > > > We could not determine a LD-50 of OSR and the group that tested its safety > > > stated the LD-50 is above 5 grams/kg body weight. Just because something > > > is natural does not mean it is safe. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, Andy makes some comments about me that are just not true. I have > > > taught graduate level biochemistry/physiology courses since 1974, > > > specializing in biochemical kinetics/thermodynamics and bioenergetics. My > > > area of research expertise for over 30 years was to use novel, chemically > > > synthesized compounds to unravel problems in energy utilizing enzymes and > > > pathways. Without hopefully sounding like a braggart, I was quite > > > successful. I certainly do understand chemical and biochemical > > > kinetics/thermodynamics and how certain compounds pass through the membranes > > > and organs of mammals. I have had a huge amount of NIH funds over many > > > years to study such phenomenon and sat on NIH Study Section Panels for many > > > years helping evaluate federal grants. My past training and experience > > > has played a major role in my research success. > > > > > > > > > > > > No one in medicine totally understands all of the intricacies required for > > > heavy metal detox or movement of chemicals around the body and I am not > > > claiming exceptional knowledge. I just claim to be a solid, well trained > > > scientist that knows how to design and test certain compounds to accomplish > > > specific goals and how to test them to make sure they are as safe as one can > > > possibly predetermine them to be. I then know enough to proceed slow and > > > easy with the help of other well trained associates doing the monitoring > > > until maximum safety and efficiency is established or not. What bothers > > > me about Andy Cutler's article is that he judges my work but does not know > > > what I have done, or what I can disclose and cannot disclose and still be of > > > immediate help to many. He is interpreting going slow and doing careful > > > work as not having done essential studies and this is not the case. Initially, > > > the compound was not offered to anyone except those who were capable of > > > testing it slowly and carefully. Andy's concerns as mentioned in his > > > missive are those that any careful person would test for, and we did, with > > > safety being the highest priority. I can also assure you that the DAN > > > doctors couldn't have been more cautious in regards to evaluating OSR and it > > > is today not a " DAN " approved procedure. We recently just started and > > > much work was done before any OSR was provided to anyone. > > > > > > > > > > > > In the recent past we have obtained pharmacokinetic studies on OSR, data on > > > OSR's oxygen radical absorbance capacity and identification of the > > > metabolites of OSR in human liver homogenates. We know that OSR peaks in > > > the plasma and all tested organs after two hours post ingestion, at 24 hours > > > post ingestion the levels are between 4 to 12% of the two hour peak values. > > > OSR was found to enter the cells of all tissues tested, and to be excreted, > > > most likely as an oxidized species as indicted by the mass spectrometry data > > > obtained with liver homogenates. This study indicated that the first two > > > main products of OSR modification by liver homogenates were those with 2 and > > > 3 oxygens attached to the arm with the sulfhydryl attached as would be > > > expected for a free radical scavenger. > > > > > > > > > > > > OSR did not concentrate in the brain and was effectively excreted from this > > > organ. While I cannot assure one of the mechanism it is well known that > > > most compounds taken into the body are excreted by mechanisms that protect > > > the brain from excess exposure. I think the same is true of OSR, it is > > > obviously being excreted by a mechanism that is designed to removed > > > compounds with oxidized sulfhydryls. Do note the similarity of the > > > sulfhydryl containing arms of OSR to that of reduced glutathione. This > > > was put in the design of OSR on purpose to take advantage of any > > > characteristic that would allow additional safety and utility. > > > > > > > > > > > > Finally, Andy's comments about LPA being a superior binding agent because > > > it forms a six membered ring is seriously flawed, the affinity of binding > > > any specific metal depends a lot on the angle of binding that specific > > > (coordination chemistry) and a six membered ring is only considered the most > > > stable or sterically favored if the angle is that of a carbon atom, not any > > > metal. For example, the most stable bond angle of the two bonds of Hg2+ > > > is 180o, consider that there is no way a 180o bond angle can be formed > > > with Hg2+ in a six membered ring consisting of 5 carbons as found in > > > dihydro-LPA. > > > > > > > > > > > > Boyd E. Haley, PhD > > > Andy > > http://www.noamalgam.com/index.html > Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment > > http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html > Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities > > http://www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html > Nourishing Hope for Autism: Nutrition Intervention for Healing Our Children > > http://www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html > Biological Treatments for Autism and PDD > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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