Re: Help with interpreting Hair Test Results - Extremely high copper

[Guest guest]

Actually, only rule #5 is met in this test, as rules 3 and 4 are short

by one. Rule 1 is short by 2.

High copper (in the red) in the presence of deranged mineral transport

most likely reflects actual body burden. Samples are washed of residue

before processing.

If you are cooking in high-copper water, she _is_ drinking it. Would

suggest distillation and whole water supply filtration.

Posting the earlier test would be helpful.

Supplementing zinc (picolinate) will help prevent further copper absorbtion.

Also make sure any multi-vit or multi-mineral does not contain _any_ copper.

Note the bottom of p.113 or Hair Test Interpretation. While it could be

a consequence of the copper, the Potassium to Calcium ratio seems to be

low enough to warrant further investigation of the thyroid hormone

levels next time she has a blood draw. (TSH, Free T4, Free T3)

The way to proceed is to chelate!

mistykraw wrote:

>

> Hi All,

>

> We are new to the group and were planning on starting AC chelation in

> a couple of weeks but we just got back our daughter's hair elements

> test and it has extremely elevated copper...she is at 130 w/ ref range

> of 11-24. We also had a hair test done on her when she was 1 year old

> and her copper appeared very normal at that time (15 w/ ref range of

> 10-22).

>

> We moved about 10 months ago, and I believe the high copper is a

> result of acidic water going through our copper pipes, so she has been

> bathing and showering in it daily, but does not drink the water. Does

> anyone know if the high copper level could just be residue on her hair

> or if it truly is reflective of her body burden as well. We have both

> of Andy's books and have read all the info on copper, but I am just

> not sure how to proceed at this point.

>

> Our daughter meets counting rules 1, 3, and 4, so we know she has

> mercury toxicity as well. Any thoughts from all of the experienced

> hair test analysts out there would be GREATLY appreciated!!! Please

> help. Her hair test is in the Hair Tests folder and the file name is

> " Aspen Hair Elements Results 02_2010 " .

>

> Many Thanks,

> Misty

>

>

[Guest guest]

and others,

Thanks so much for your time and thoughts. I guess I was so freaked out about

the copper that I forgot how to count, so thanks for correcting my assessment of

the counting rules.

I don't have an electronic copy of her old test result, but I will find a way to

get it scanned tomorrow and post a copy. She was less toxic then.

We have a whole-house r/o system and a PH stabilizer, among a bunch of other

things, because we are on a well. I suspect the copper is from our water but

I'm not sure just how it is coming through.

We already have our daughter on zinc picolinate, so it scares me that her level

is still that high. I've also checked her supps for copper sources, and there

are none that I've found. Should I add in Molybdenum to help as well? Should we

test for 's disease, or would her copper have been high on her first hair

test as well?

We had a complete blood panel ran at the end of August and her thyroid results

were as follows:

Free T-3: 370 (230-420)

T-3 Uptake: 34.00 (22.00-35.00) HIGH

Free T4 Index: 3.00 (1.40-3.80)

T4: 8.80 (4.50-12.50)

Ultra Sensitive TSH: 2.02 (1.10-2.50)

According to the test, everything with the thyroid was fine. Any other ideas?

She did have a bunch of things that were out of range: Alkaline Phosphatase, A/G

ratio, Creatinine, CO2, lymphocytes, globulin, neutrophils, uric acid, albumin,

B.U.N./creatine ratio, etc., etc. Our doctor wanted us to work hydration and

electrolyte supply to help correct some of those things, but I think there is

more to take away from the results.

We have bazillions of tests that we've run, and the results are always

different, with one exception - the toxicity ones: porphyrins, hair elements,

xenobiotics - all show toxicities. We've been hesitant to do chelation because

we've also done some genetic testing and know that she is missing some of her

detoxification genes, specifically in her liver. Our doctor is against putting

her liver under stress, but I can't just sit here and let the toxins continue to

build like they have done from her first hair test to the second. My gut says

to do AC chelation, but now I'm worried about the ALA making the copper

situation worse. Is this a realistic worry, or should I just get started?

Thanks for anyone's time who can help shed some light.

Misty

> >

> > Hi All,

> >

> > We are new to the group and were planning on starting AC chelation in

> > a couple of weeks but we just got back our daughter's hair elements

> > test and it has extremely elevated copper...she is at 130 w/ ref range

> > of 11-24. We also had a hair test done on her when she was 1 year old

> > and her copper appeared very normal at that time (15 w/ ref range of

> > 10-22).

> >

> > We moved about 10 months ago, and I believe the high copper is a

> > result of acidic water going through our copper pipes, so she has been

> > bathing and showering in it daily, but does not drink the water. Does

> > anyone know if the high copper level could just be residue on her hair

> > or if it truly is reflective of her body burden as well. We have both

> > of Andy's books and have read all the info on copper, but I am just

> > not sure how to proceed at this point.

> >

> > Our daughter meets counting rules 1, 3, and 4, so we know she has

> > mercury toxicity as well. Any thoughts from all of the experienced

> > hair test analysts out there would be GREATLY appreciated!!! Please

> > help. Her hair test is in the Hair Tests folder and the file name is

> > " Aspen Hair Elements Results 02_2010 " .

> >

> > Many Thanks,

> > Misty

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

mistykraw wrote:

>

> and others,

>

> Thanks so much for your time and thoughts. I guess I was so freaked

> out about the copper that I forgot how to count, so thanks for

> correcting my assessment of the counting rules.

>

> I don't have an electronic copy of her old test result, but I will

> find a way to get it scanned tomorrow and post a copy. She was less

> toxic then.

>

> We have a whole-house r/o system and a PH stabilizer, among a bunch of

> other things, because we are on a well. I suspect the copper is from

> our water but I'm not sure just how it is coming through.

>

Is the piping _after_ the r/o system plastic or copper?

My understanding is that _deionization_ is preferable to r/o for

removing copper.

>

> We already have our daughter on zinc picolinate, so it scares me that

> her level is still that high.

>

How much zinc is she on? How much does she weigh? Is it spread out

throughout the day?

> I've also checked her supps for copper sources, and there are none

> that I've found. Should I add in Molybdenum to help as well?

>

Absolutely.

> Should we test for 's disease, or would her copper have been

> high on her first hair test as well?

>

I don't know very much about 's, so I'll leave that to someone

more competent.

> We had a complete blood panel ran at the end of August and her thyroid

> results were as follows:

>

> Free T-3: 370 (230-420)

> T-3 Uptake: 34.00 (22.00-35.00) HIGH

> Free T4 Index: 3.00 (1.40-3.80)

> T4: 8.80 (4.50-12.50)

> Ultra Sensitive TSH: 2.02 (1.10-2.50)

>

> According to the test, everything with the thyroid was fine.

>

....according to someone who doesn't know enough about thyroid and mercury.

You generally want TSH and free T4 well into the lower half of the lab

range, and the free T3 in the upper half.

So these look high to me.

> Any other ideas? She did have a bunch of things that were out of

> range: Alkaline Phosphatase, A/G ratio, Creatinine, CO2, lymphocytes,

> globulin, neutrophils, uric acid, albumin, B.U.N./creatine ratio,

> etc., etc. Our doctor wanted us to work hydration and electrolyte

> supply to help correct some of those things, but I think there is more

> to take away from the results.

>

> We have bazillions of tests that we've run, and the results are always

> different, with one exception - the toxicity ones: porphyrins, hair

> elements, xenobiotics - all show toxicities. We've been hesitant to do

> chelation because we've also done some genetic testing and know that

> she is missing some of her detoxification genes, specifically in her

> liver. Our doctor is against putting her liver under stress,

>

Again, I'm wondering how much your doc actually knows about this stuff.

ALA does NOT stress the liver. At the contrary it is used to heal the liver:

http://onibasu.com/archives/am/48443.html

DMSA clears through the kidneys, and does not stress them either

significantly.

http://onibasu.com/archives/am/81382.html

> but I can't just sit here and let the toxins continue to build like

> they have done from her first hair test to the second. My gut says to

> do AC chelation, but now I'm worried about the ALA making the copper

> situation worse. Is this a realistic worry, or should I just get started?

>

This is a valid worry.

Again, Andy:

" Copper can be reduced by hindering its absorption. Taking zinc with every

meal - about 1/4 to 1/2 mg per pound - and avoiding high copper foods like

nuts and shellfish "

http://onibasu.com/archives/am/2931.html

>

> Thanks for anyone's time who can help shed some light.

>

> Misty

>

>

> > >

> > > Hi All,

> > >

> > > We are new to the group and were planning on starting AC chelation in

> > > a couple of weeks but we just got back our daughter's hair elements

> > > test and it has extremely elevated copper...she is at 130 w/ ref

> range

> > > of 11-24. We also had a hair test done on her when she was 1 year old

> > > and her copper appeared very normal at that time (15 w/ ref range of

> > > 10-22).

> > >

> > > We moved about 10 months ago, and I believe the high copper is a

> > > result of acidic water going through our copper pipes, so she has

> been

> > > bathing and showering in it daily, but does not drink the water. Does

> > > anyone know if the high copper level could just be residue on her

> hair

> > > or if it truly is reflective of her body burden as well. We have both

> > > of Andy's books and have read all the info on copper, but I am just

> > > not sure how to proceed at this point.

> > >

> > > Our daughter meets counting rules 1, 3, and 4, so we know she has

> > > mercury toxicity as well. Any thoughts from all of the experienced

> > > hair test analysts out there would be GREATLY appreciated!!! Please

> > > help. Her hair test is in the Hair Tests folder and the file name is

> > > " Aspen Hair Elements Results 02_2010 " .

> > >

> > > Many Thanks,

> > > Misty

> > >

> > >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

my kid had high copper when we started

how old is your kid ?

mine was about 4

zinc should be body weight + 20mg divided into 3 or 4 doses per day

so 50lb kid should get 79mg per day which is a bout 25mg with breakfast lunch

and dinner

moly seemed more effective in reducing the copper i think we got up to 600 or

750mccg per day when kid was about 40 or so lbs

we also started to give taurine, milk thystle, glycine, phosphityle choline to

improve bile flow

and you also need to be very careful about eliminating copper from diet

turns out that copper is in lots of suppliments, foods, cereal, soy milk etc.

the moly etc. made a really big difference in joint attention, affection and

other symptoms. in about 2 weeks

symptoms for copper toxicity are really similar to mercury / asd symptoms

you may want to work to lower the copper for a couple of months while you

prepare for chelation ( i think thats what andys advice to me was about a year

ago )

after the copper reduction and about a year of chelation my kid is really

improved to the point where its difficult to notice any issue

[Guest guest]

DMSA chelation is not affected by copper.

Andy's advice in Hair Test Interpretation for ALA chelation is, if

" copper levels over 125, average one day on for every three off

chelation " (Page 256). So a 3 days on, 11 day off schedule would work.

As well, his indication for Mb dosing in HTI is 10-30 mcg/pound for

children. Sophie, this would work out to 400-1200 mcg for a 40 lb child.

ddsophied wrote:

>

> my kid had high copper when we started

> how old is your kid ?

> mine was about 4

>

> zinc should be body weight + 20mg divided into 3 or 4 doses per day

> so 50lb kid should get 79mg per day which is a bout 25mg with

> breakfast lunch and dinner

>

> moly seemed more effective in reducing the copper i think we got up to

> 600 or 750mccg per day when kid was about 40 or so lbs

>

> we also started to give taurine, milk thystle, glycine, phosphityle

> choline to improve bile flow

>

> and you also need to be very careful about eliminating copper from diet

> turns out that copper is in lots of suppliments, foods, cereal, soy

> milk etc.

>

> the moly etc. made a really big difference in joint attention,

> affection and other symptoms. in about 2 weeks

>

> symptoms for copper toxicity are really similar to mercury / asd symptoms

>

> you may want to work to lower the copper for a couple of months while

> you prepare for chelation ( i think thats what andys advice to me was

> about a year ago )

>

Was this for ALA or also for DMSA?

>

> after the copper reduction and about a year of chelation my kid is

> really improved to the point where its difficult to notice any issue

>

>

[Guest guest]

i lived through copper lowering it is good to keep it low

i felt sense of accomplishment when my kid got better and

saw lower copper on second hair test

if you search all the copper posts you will find that Andy changed

his mind after writing the books he backed off the ala restrictions somewhat

definitely be careful with ala and copper

thats why i was advised to do the moly zinc taurine glycine milk thystle etc for

a couple of months before adding als it should be enough to bring down the

copper provided that you eliminate any sources of copper from intake

you can add amonium to your water see if it turns blue if it does then you

should get the water tested cause it likey contains copper

anyhow i saw low copper on my second hair test and high moly in the same test so

i backed off moly to 150mcg perday and third tese showed slightly high copper

and regular moly so im increasing to 300mcg perday

im also starting to see mercury in hair test so i guess thats good too

also kid was very uncomfortable two times during the first few months of the

copper lowering like there was a healing regression maybe some yeast rash around

anus yeasty behaviors, followed by betterness

good luck