Re: Newbie Here - IV Chelation of toddler

[Guest guest]

please don't do IV chelation. If you ever want him to be verbal seriously DO NOT

do IV chelation.

www.dmpsbackfire.com has stories of adults who've done IV chelation.

People with mercury should not use EDTA anyway. And what is wrong with oral

chelators?.

IV isn't the most effective, it's the most likely to cause severe permanent

regressions. The most effective with the least risk is frequent low dose oral

chelation otherwise known as Andy Cutler chelation.

Many people report benefits initially with those high dose protocols but later

the child regresses terrible or the side effects are terrible. And often times

its not reversible even with safer chelation after the fact.

The problem with high dose IV chelation is that it ignores some basic chemistry

principals. Chelators like any other substance only last a certain amount of

time in the body. For dmps that would be 8 hours. DMSA is 4 hours and ALA is 3

hours. If you give a high dose once and wait weeks for the next dose, you pull a

lot of metals and move them around but there is not subsequent chelator dose to

remove them from the body. So they redistribute and settle where ever they want,

usually the brain. Doing this enough times results in a worsening of poisoning

and symptoms in people. Where as taking the chelator in a small dosed every few

hours over the course of three days, followed by a break, keeps a steady blood

level of chelator and a steady pull of metals for three days. You reduce the

amount of redistributions by doing " rounds " which are three days at a time on

chelators.

You don't need a DAN to do safe low dose chelation. And it's not expensive,

carries none of the risk of slamming a tiny child with high IV EDTA and DMPS as

well as glutathione. And glutathione should not be used either.

Doctors who do these protocols have very little understanding of chelation or

heavy metal poisoning.

I can't say how many people that have come to me for help over the years after

they've done this to their kid and it made a bigger mess.

Please read Andys protocol in the files section and see Moria's site for more

information on doing safe chelation.

Jan

Recovery From Autism

>

> Hi everyone,

>

> Our son is just about to turn 3. He has ASD - heavy metals are very high

according to hair test - high metals & mercury according to counting rule.

> We have been following DAN protocol for about a year now and have seen gains

(through HBOT, MB12, diet, supplements, ABA) but he is still non verbal and has

a long ways to go.

>

> Has anybody done IV chelation for their kiddos?

> The protocol we would be using is:

> infusion 1: Glutathione, infusion 2: calcium EDTA, infusion 3: DMPS

>

> We are thinking IV chelation over other forms because its the most effective

from what we have researched, and because his metal levels are so high, and we

have a doctor who is doing this locally working with our Dan docs and families

are reporting lots of benefits as a result.

>

> Thank you!

> Tina

>

[Guest guest]

I am wondering what kind of research you've done, and where you got your

answers. There is a lot of marketing done on IV chelation and if you talk to

the IV chelation docs all is great. I would encourage you to seek out patient

experiences.

There is a paper by Boyd Haley which shows that EDTA combines with merc to form

more toxic compounds.

http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dailys/02/Sep02/091602/80027dd5.pdf

Glutethione is high sulfur so unless doc has tested the child's cystien level

http://onibasu.com/wiki/Cysteine_status you could really be in a world of hurt.

All those monothiols bouncing the merc around my kid would make him an absolute

mess, and IV? never. http://onibasu.com/wiki/Glutathione

Read adult experiences of DMPS IV at http://www.dmpsbackfire.com/default.shtml

If you want to get a better idea of the effect of IV chelation on children be

sure to collect stories of children only after one year of IV chelation. Often

they can hold it together for a year sometimes even show gains. If not sooner,

after a year or so all hell break loose and you are left with a horribly

regressed child as bad or worse than before.

After that collect stories of children who have done at least a year or two of

regular AC chelation and see how they stack up against the IV children.

http://onibasu.com/wiki/Progress_reports

If you read and research these things you might come away with a different

picture than the one you have now.

Tressie

>

> Hi everyone,

>

> Our son is just about to turn 3. He has ASD - heavy metals are very high

according to hair test - high metals & mercury according to counting rule.

> We have been following DAN protocol for about a year now and have seen gains

(through HBOT, MB12, diet, supplements, ABA) but he is still non verbal and has

a long ways to go.

>

> Has anybody done IV chelation for their kiddos?

> The protocol we would be using is:

> infusion 1: Glutathione, infusion 2: calcium EDTA, infusion 3: DMPS

>

> We are thinking IV chelation over other forms because its the most effective

from what we have researched, and because his metal levels are so high, and we

have a doctor who is doing this locally working with our Dan docs and families

are reporting lots of benefits as a result.

>

> Thank you!

> Tina

>

[Guest guest]

Tina,

We didn't even make it a year with IV chelation before our son had terrible

respiratory reactions to rounds. We only went seven months before all hell

broke loose. His OCD, SID, and anxiety which were almost gone came back

with a vengeance.

He developed a reaciton to some sulfa drugs and foods. Then we got talked

into doing IV with only EDTA. This lasted only four weeks before our son

had a very serious respiratory reaction that scared the hell out of both my

husband and me.

The doc STILL wanted to keep going but said he would give an oral steroid

before each treatment. Well, our osn had had an oral steroid once and had a

psychotic episode due to it, so we said, " Hell, no. " We quit and started

doing AC Protocol in January fo this year.

The main thing I notice -- better than all the years we did DAN is that our

son has been healthier by far since beginning AC. He has only needed a

rescue inhaler four times in twelve weeks, and has not needed any asthma

meds in three weeks since we upped his adrenal support.

To do IV, you have to get the needle in, of course. for many kids this can

be difficult if they have deep veins. It can be very traumatic for some

kids. My son has deep veins, and once we were at the doctors for FOUR HOURS

trying to get a good vein. I can't believe I put my son through that, and I

would never do that again. It is hard enough getting blood when tests need

to be done -- let alone trying to do it every week.

The worst part is having his stimming, OCD, and SID come back, and I can

only hope and pray that as we continue AC, these will go away again.

Tressie has given you some very good advice. Take heed.

[Guest guest]

I can't say anything anyone else here hasn't already eloquently said, so I am

just going to add to the number of people who would literally beg you on her

knees to not do IV chelation with your baby, your child deserves a chance at a

future, please consider Andy Cutler chelation and use your doctor for any

testing you request of him/her.

>

> Hi everyone,

>

> Our son is just about to turn 3. He has ASD - heavy metals are very high

according to hair test - high metals & mercury according to counting rule.

> We have been following DAN protocol for about a year now and have seen gains

(through HBOT, MB12, diet, supplements, ABA) but he is still non verbal and has

a long ways to go.

>

> Has anybody done IV chelation for their kiddos?

> The protocol we would be using is:

> infusion 1: Glutathione, infusion 2: calcium EDTA, infusion 3: DMPS

>

> We are thinking IV chelation over other forms because its the most effective

from what we have researched, and because his metal levels are so high, and we

have a doctor who is doing this locally working with our Dan docs and families

are reporting lots of benefits as a result.

>

> Thank you!

> Tina

>

[Guest guest]

> >

> > Hi everyone,

> >

> > Our son is just about to turn 3. He has ASD - heavy metals are very high

according to hair test - high metals & mercury according to counting rule.

> > We have been following DAN protocol for about a year now and have seen gains

(through HBOT, MB12, diet, supplements, ABA) but he is still non verbal

and if you would like the best chance of changing that, the first thing you have

to do is avoid hurting him with dangerous, harmful and inappropriate medical

interventions like the supposed protocol below.

> and has a long ways to go.

> >

> > Has anybody done IV chelation for their kiddos?

Lots of them. Most of their doctors did something that at least made SOME kind

of sense even if it was wrong and often hurt the kid.

> > The protocol we would be using is:

> > infusion 1: Glutathione, infusion 2: calcium EDTA, infusion 3: DMPS

This is utterly psychotic. Run away screaming. I'm surprised it doesn't

include 4. the kitchen sink.

> > We are thinking IV chelation over other forms because its the most effective

from what we have researched,

I guess you didn't do any research then. Presumably you relied on the sales

pitch of the doctor, that went something like " so much more mercury comes out in

the urine test. " Of course he forgets to tell you about how much more gets

slammed into the kid's brain by doing it this way instead of properly, or the

fact that you get way MORE mercury out each month chelating properly with low

frequent oral doses (see table on page 207 of Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and

Treatment for comparison - www.noamalgam.com ).

>and because his metal levels are so high, and we have a doctor who is doing

this locally working with our Dan docs and families are reporting lots of

benefits as a result.

Sounds like they have sales hype almost as good as the doctors who vaccinate

your kids into autism and ADHD, then charge money to prescribe them ritalin!

> >

> > Thank you!

> > Tina

Andy

www.noamalgam.com

www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html

www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html

www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html

[Guest guest]

I would like to chime in a little bit with my own experience.  This is my own

experience with my own son and I am no means a super mom.  I have tried IV

chelation with my son who is six for roughly 6 -7 months and I did not see many

gains.  There were a lot of parents and continue to be who tell me I need to

keep going until 18 months to really see the metals pour out and that I should

not stop now.   I do believe every child is different.  I decided to stop

because the one thing  I realized one day, my son he did not seem to gain new

skills or really learn anything during the entire time we were doing IV

chelation.  In fact he was learning more when we were just doing supplements

and oral DMSA.  We lost all that time.  I thought at the time, well it can't

get any worse than it is now but trust me, it can get worse.  I pray I did not

damage him long term desperately trying to help him.  Since we stopped IV, he

had to re-learn all the things he

learned before IV previously mastered in his ABA programs and I feel guilty all

over again.  

May

________________________________

From: andrewhallcutler <AndyCutler@...>

Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 10:58 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Newbie Here - IV Chelation of toddler

 

> >

> > Hi everyone,

> >

> > Our son is just about to turn 3. He has ASD - heavy metals are very high

according to hair test - high metals & mercury according to counting rule.

> > We have been following DAN protocol for about a year now and have seen gains

(through HBOT, MB12, diet, supplements, ABA) but he is still non verbal

and if you would like the best chance of changing that, the first thing you have

to do is avoid hurting him with dangerous, harmful and inappropriate medical

interventions like the supposed protocol below.

> and has a long ways to go.

> >

> > Has anybody done IV chelation for their kiddos?

Lots of them. Most of their doctors did something that at least made SOME kind

of sense even if it was wrong and often hurt the kid.

> > The protocol we would be using is:

> > infusion 1: Glutathione, infusion 2: calcium EDTA, infusion 3: DMPS

This is utterly psychotic. Run away screaming. I'm surprised it doesn't

include 4. the kitchen sink.

> > We are thinking IV chelation over other forms because its the most effective

from what we have researched,

I guess you didn't do any research then. Presumably you relied on the sales

pitch of the doctor, that went something like " so much more mercury comes out in

the urine test. " Of course he forgets to tell you about how much more gets

slammed into the kid's brain by doing it this way instead of properly, or the

fact that you get way MORE mercury out each month chelating properly with low

frequent oral doses (see table on page 207 of Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and

Treatment for comparison - www.noamalgam.com ).

>and because his metal levels are so high, and we have a doctor who is doing

this locally working with our Dan docs and families are reporting lots of

benefits as a result.

Sounds like they have sales hype almost as good as the doctors who vaccinate

your kids into autism and ADHD, then charge money to prescribe them ritalin!

> >

> > Thank you!

> > Tina

Andy

www.noamalgam.com

www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html

www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html

www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html

[Guest guest]

Hi Everyone,

I have an 8 yr old with autism. I tried the AC protocol and read both of your

books. I am very greatful to you Andy Cutler for showing me that autism =

mercury poisoning .

I was able to figure this out because your book points it out so clearly. I also

want you to know that I followed the AC protocol diligently every 3 to 4 hours

for over 9 months. I saw no results in my child I also showed no mercury

leaving

my child with repeated urine tests and hair using this method. I tried other

methods as well such as trans dermal cream.  Because I know my son has mercury

poisioning I was desperate to get the mercury out and tried IV chelation (DMPS

Glutithione )with a urine test after and we finally got some of the mercury out.

His levels are off the charts.

Could it be that maybe the AC protocol may work for mercury piosoning from

amalgam filings but not for vaccine injured children??  My son has had 20

rounds

and has shown improvemnt in every round. I only wish I could have done it

sooner.  I know of other children responding favorably to the same IV

protocol.

With all due respect to you Andy, why is it that I see results with this IV

protocol as far as clarity, and speech if it is so detrimental to a child's

health??

While I am not a doctor and I do not understand biochemistry, I continue to be

nervous everytime I chelate him.  However, I have been rewarded by seeing my

son

improve before my very eyes. I was a parent who got up every 3 to 4 hours

trying

your protocol with only negative results.  The DMSA upset his stomach and

caused

yeast issues. I tried it myself and it upset my stomach.  Suppositories got

stuck for days and failed to come out.  Transdermal creams brought out terrible

negative side affects.  IV Chelation has been the best.  I also spoke to

several

DAN Drs who have been using this protocol with only positive results. On a

cautionay note, I do not know of any 3 yr olds doing the IV chelation protocol.

I would be interested in knowing anyone who has personally done IV chelation and

the results either positive or negative.

A concerned parent,

Greenberg

________________________________

From: andrewhallcutler <AndyCutler@...>

Sent: Thu, April 14, 2011 8:58:26 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: Newbie Here - IV Chelation of toddler

 

> >

> > Hi everyone,

> >

> > Our son is just about to turn 3. He has ASD - heavy metals are very high

>according to hair test - high metals & mercury according to counting rule.

>

> > We have been following DAN protocol for about a year now and have seen gains

>(through HBOT, MB12, diet, supplements, ABA) but he is still non verbal

and if you would like the best chance of changing that, the first thing you have

to do is avoid hurting him with dangerous, harmful and inappropriate medical

interventions like the supposed protocol below.

> and has a long ways to go.

> >

> > Has anybody done IV chelation for their kiddos?

Lots of them. Most of their doctors did something that at least made SOME kind

of sense even if it was wrong and often hurt the kid.

> > The protocol we would be using is:

> > infusion 1: Glutathione, infusion 2: calcium EDTA, infusion 3: DMPS

This is utterly psychotic. Run away screaming. I'm surprised it doesn't include

4. the kitchen sink.

> > We are thinking IV chelation over other forms because its the most effective

>from what we have researched,

>

I guess you didn't do any research then. Presumably you relied on the sales

pitch of the doctor, that went something like " so much more mercury comes out in

the urine test. " Of course he forgets to tell you about how much more gets

slammed into the kid's brain by doing it this way instead of properly, or the

fact that you get way MORE mercury out each month chelating properly with low

frequent oral doses (see table on page 207 of Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and

Treatment for comparison - www.noamalgam.com ).

>and because his metal levels are so high, and we have a doctor who is doing

this

>locally working with our Dan docs and families are reporting lots of benefits

as

>a result.

>

Sounds like they have sales hype almost as good as the doctors who vaccinate

your kids into autism and ADHD, then charge money to prescribe them ritalin!

> >

> > Thank you!

> > Tina

Andy

www.noamalgam.com

www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html

www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html

www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html

[Guest guest]

" negative side affects.  IV Chelation has been the best.  I also spoke to

several

DAN Drs who have been using this protocol with only positive results. On a

cautionay note, I do not know of any 3 yr olds doing the IV chelation protocol.

I would be interested in knowing anyone who has personally done IV chelation and

the results either positive or negative. "

You expect Dr's to advertise and tell patients they have permanently damaged

children? Of course they are going to tell you it works great. I have heard of

many many more recovered children from AC VS IV.

Secondly your assumption that mercury poisoning vs vaccine mercury damage is

just silly, the chemistry and physiological functioning of chelators in the body

body doesent change.

You simply played Russian roulette with your Childs safety and didn't

lose.....yet.

> > >

> > > Hi everyone,

> > >

> > > Our son is just about to turn 3. He has ASD - heavy metals are very high

> >according to hair test - high metals & mercury according to counting rule.

> >

> > > We have been following DAN protocol for about a year now and have seen

gains

> >(through HBOT, MB12, diet, supplements, ABA) but he is still non verbal

>

> and if you would like the best chance of changing that, the first thing you

have

> to do is avoid hurting him with dangerous, harmful and inappropriate medical

> interventions like the supposed protocol below.

>

> > and has a long ways to go.

> > >

> > > Has anybody done IV chelation for their kiddos?

>

> Lots of them. Most of their doctors did something that at least made SOME kind

> of sense even if it was wrong and often hurt the kid.

>

> > > The protocol we would be using is:

> > > infusion 1: Glutathione, infusion 2: calcium EDTA, infusion 3: DMPS

>

> This is utterly psychotic. Run away screaming. I'm surprised it doesn't

include

> 4. the kitchen sink.

>

> > > We are thinking IV chelation over other forms because its the most

effective

> >from what we have researched,

> >

>

> I guess you didn't do any research then. Presumably you relied on the sales

> pitch of the doctor, that went something like " so much more mercury comes out

in

> the urine test. " Of course he forgets to tell you about how much more gets

> slammed into the kid's brain by doing it this way instead of properly, or the

> fact that you get way MORE mercury out each month chelating properly with low

> frequent oral doses (see table on page 207 of Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and

> Treatment for comparison - www.noamalgam.com ).

>

> >and because his metal levels are so high, and we have a doctor who is doing

this

> >locally working with our Dan docs and families are reporting lots of benefits

as

> >a result.

> >

>

> Sounds like they have sales hype almost as good as the doctors who vaccinate

> your kids into autism and ADHD, then charge money to prescribe them ritalin!

> > >

> > > Thank you!

> > > Tina

>

> Andy

>

> www.noamalgam.com

>

> www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html

>

> www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html

>

> www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Hi Everyone,

>

> I have an 8 yr old with autism. I tried the AC protocol and read both of your

> books. I am very greatful to you Andy Cutler for showing me that autism =

> mercury poisoning .

>

>

> I was able to figure this out because your book points it out so clearly. I

also

> want you to know that I followed the AC protocol diligently every 3 to 4 hours

> for over 9 months. I saw no results in my child I also showed no mercury

leaving

> my child with repeated urine tests and hair using this method. I tried other

> methods as well such as trans dermal cream.  Because I know my son has

mercury

> poisioning I was desperate to get the mercury out and tried IV chelation (DMPS

> Glutithione )with a urine test after and we finally got some of the mercury

out.

> His levels are off the charts.

>

>

> Could it be that maybe the AC protocol may work for mercury piosoning from

> amalgam filings but not for vaccine injured children??

No, especially since so many other people got their kids completely well with

it.

Could it be you don't understand the rather complicated natural history of

mercury poisoning as shown in figure 15 on page 52 of Amalgam Illness, where at

first you may not see any progress, then after maybe 9 months it suddenly

starts?

>   My son has had 20 rounds

> and has shown improvemnt in every round. I only wish I could have done it

> sooner.  I know of other children responding favorably to the same IV

protocol.

Yes. They do. And some also get horribly permanently worse. Many are in the

middle. After lots of IV chelation they are mostly much harder to treat and not

as well off as if they stuck to proper oral chelation.

It is important to understand what to expect (figure 15 being part of that) and

what the response should be. It is doubly important to not be deluded by abuse

of lab tests - basically the iv test shows all the month's mercury in that one

test and it looks dramatic, even though the oral chelation results lower number

continues throughout the month and in the end adds up to far more mercury

removed.

I talk about this in the appendix of Amalgam Illness. The lack of chasing the

numbers and seeing how they add up is one of the cardinal failings of the

liberal arts approach to medicine.

> With all due respect to you Andy, why is it that I see results with this IV

> protocol as far as clarity, and speech if it is so detrimental to a child's

> health??

Some people do. Some children are healthy and robust enough their body can take

the biochemical punishment and reap some rewards. This doesn't mean it is the

best choice. However honestly I am glad your son was one of the children who was

able to 'take it,' and did get better. Please do think about this carefully

however. I don't chant about the dangers of IV chelation, and inappropriate

timing (which necessarily goes with it) just for fun. I do it because I want to

help you get your kid as well as you can get him - hopefully all the way to

normalcy.

> While I am not a doctor and I do not understand biochemistry, I continue to

be

> nervous everytime I chelate him.  However, I have been rewarded by seeing my

son

> improve before my very eyes.

I am really happy to hear that. Like I said, I really do not wish you or him

ill - I hope this works like magic for him. I just know from experience and

talking to a lot of people that it isn't a likely outcome.

>I was a parent who got up every 3 to 4 hours trying

> your protocol with only negative results.

You say nothing happened above. Were there problems, or just nothing happened?

>  The DMSA upset his stomach and caused

> yeast issues. I tried it myself and it upset my stomach.  Suppositories got

> stuck for days and failed to come out.

I don't recommend suppositories. Were you using my protocol or something else a

doctor told you was my protocol?

>  Transdermal creams brought out terrible

> negative side affects

How did you use them?

>.  IV Chelation has been the best.  I also spoke to several

> DAN Drs who have been using this protocol with only positive results.

Yeah, when I was sick I got that kind of response from all the doctors too. On

calling around there were many patients who got horribly sick and complained

bitterly to the doctor that the doctor forgot about when telling future patients

it was totally safe and they'd never seen a problem.

Later I did this with dozens of DAN! doctors and got the same result.

I simply don't believe them. The honest ones will talk about the risks and bad

things they've seen but say something like " but I have to try to do something to

help my patients, " or " so much more mercury comes out than any other way. "

> On a

> cautionay note, I do not know of any 3 yr olds doing the IV chelation

protocol.

>

> I would be interested in knowing anyone who has personally done IV chelation

and

> the results either positive or negative.

The negatives are well and accurately represented on www.dmpsbackfire.com and I

know of innumerable similar cases not given there. Also in EVERY SINGLE ONE of

the cases I know of on that site save one, the doctor continues to this day to

insist they've never seen a problem with DMPS injections.

I've run across adequate numbers of reports of DMPS injection catastrophes with

children, including one who was actually killed by it (but thankfully revived in

the emergency room - I heard about it indirectly from the ER doctor).

> A concerned parent,

Concern is reasonable. You're talking about your son's future and you really do

want to get it right - and it all started with some needle wielding doctors who

said what they were doing was totally safe.

It sounds like from what you are saying that you did not have problems with ALA

on a low frequent dose protocol. You could just try that now and see what

happens.

I would also suggest getting real clarity from the doctor as to exactly what is

in the iv your child receives. Often it isn't just a chelator, the other things

in there may be doing what you are seeing. Along that line it is possible your

kid is one of the ones who is NOT toxic but something ELSE in the iv is really

helpful.

> Greenberg

>

> Andy

>

> www.noamalgam.com

>

> www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html

>

> www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html

>

> www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html

[Guest guest]

I have often wondered about this - the DAN! fascination with needles - and how

anyone can do well on this protocol. As Andy says, if your child is improving

we are happy for you, none of us wishes ill on your child just to prove us

right. However, as I posted in another thread with the infrequent high dose

oral route, which I stupidly undertook to experiment with on myself, while

mercifully at least doing the AC protocol with my young son, I did great on it

for at least 6-8 months and then the bottom fell out. I would worry that the IV

route might ultimately result in that happening - as I have read many parents

attest to.

I am reminded of the whole Mb12 shot argument. Andy warned of the many dangers

of shooting high doses of B12 into a child's bloodstream, and all of the

terrible negatives that could happen, better to go the oral route etc, where you

can titrate up or down based on how the child does. Pre chelation we tried

this, but well as with many of our kids, metals had wrecked my sons gut - and

the oral route however little we used was a disaster. So at the urging of our

then DAN!, we said let's give the shots a go. I will never forget bringing them

home from the pharmacy. I could not bring myself to do the shots, I hate

needles. My reluctant spouse who thought biomed was voodoo, gave the first

injection. I went in the bathroom and threw up. I was terrified of what would

happen.

Well in the next days, we saw nothing but positives, eye contact, language, more

socialization that got better and better. My dh said - what does this Cutler

guy know anyway, see all is well. He hated giving the shots but did so - as we

saw nothing but gains. I posted a lot about how Andy was wrong about the shots

- what was one kid's disaster was my kid's miracle it seemed- it had jump

started methylation etc. Eventually, we knew doing all of this was not getting

to the root of the problem. We started chelating a couple of months later per

the AC protocol.

We had the inevitable issues of yeast, and adrenal problems and stimming and on

and on that come early on with chelation for many. It was not easy, but we did

start to see progress, and over time we noticed when we gave a B12 shot, my son

seemed less engaged and verbal, instead of better. Where was our miracle

intervention? My dh, said stop, enough of this nonsense. We hair tested him

again and cobalt was off the charts too. After a while - too much of a good

thing delivered in a needle into the bloodstream, was now a problem. It seemed

as well that proper AC chelation had started to take over and a lot of our son's

bodily processes were improving. These shots were not only not necessary but

were starting to be detrimental it seemed, and this only manifested itself after

months of use. So we stopped and all was well.

Down the road when he seemed deficient in B12 again, we tried the oral route

with some success, after gut healing had gone on. However, eventually he did

not even need this, and B12 by mouth caused problems, but the oral route was

easy to stop with no problem. We kept chelating the AC way, and all of our

myriad problems started to recede with more and more rounds, and positives began

to emerge.

There is of course a world of difference of course between MB12 shots and IV

chelation, still many kids get seriously messed up by the MB12 shots too - we

were fortunate that while initially helpful and ultimately counterproductive,

there was no lasting negative effect from the B12 shots. Once we stopped, the

problems went away. Shots of any kind into a child's body of high doses of a

substance, whether it be a vitamin a drug whatever, well, it is a crap shoot,

Russian roulette, if you will, and once you shoot that into the veins, there is

no calling it back. And all can seem well and then totally without warning, the

bottom can fall out, and often, particularly when it comes to the IV chelation

route, that can lead to serious backsliding, damage whatever you want to call

it.

So just be forewarned - this is a huge risk to take. We never considered IV

chelation or the high dose oral route. The B12 experience in and of itself was

nerve racking enough. Andy's protocol is not a quick fix/ miracle - let's face

it there are almost none of these in life. But it is a rational and safe one if

done properly and respects the science and half life of what the chelators do in

the body. Our son's amazing progress over the last 3 years bears that out.

Just keep all of this in mind when continuing with the IV route, that just

because everything seems great today, does not guarantee that that will be the

case tomorrow.

Irene

>

> > Hi Everyone,

> >

> > I have an 8 yr old with autism. I tried the AC protocol and read both of

your

> > books. I am very greatful to you Andy Cutler for showing me that autism =

> > mercury poisoning .

> >

> >

> > I was able to figure this out because your book points it out so clearly. I

also

> > want you to know that I followed the AC protocol diligently every 3 to 4

hours

> > for over 9 months. I saw no results in my child I also showed no mercury

leaving

> > my child with repeated urine tests and hair using this method. I tried other

> > methods as well such as trans dermal cream.  Because I know my son has

mercury

> > poisioning I was desperate to get the mercury out and tried IV chelation

(DMPS

> > Glutithione )with a urine test after and we finally got some of the mercury

out.

> > His levels are off the charts.

> >

> >

> > Could it be that maybe the AC protocol may work for mercury piosoning from

> > amalgam filings but not for vaccine injured children??

>

> No, especially since so many other people got their kids completely well with

it.

>

> Could it be you don't understand the rather complicated natural history of

mercury poisoning as shown in figure 15 on page 52 of Amalgam Illness, where at

first you may not see any progress, then after maybe 9 months it suddenly

starts?

>

> >   My son has had 20 rounds

> > and has shown improvemnt in every round. I only wish I could have done it

> > sooner.  I know of other children responding favorably to the same IV

protocol.

>

> Yes. They do. And some also get horribly permanently worse. Many are in the

middle. After lots of IV chelation they are mostly much harder to treat and not

as well off as if they stuck to proper oral chelation.

>

> It is important to understand what to expect (figure 15 being part of that)

and what the response should be. It is doubly important to not be deluded by

abuse of lab tests - basically the iv test shows all the month's mercury in that

one test and it looks dramatic, even though the oral chelation results lower

number continues throughout the month and in the end adds up to far more mercury

removed.

>

> I talk about this in the appendix of Amalgam Illness. The lack of chasing the

numbers and seeing how they add up is one of the cardinal failings of the

liberal arts approach to medicine.

>

> > With all due respect to you Andy, why is it that I see results with this IV

> > protocol as far as clarity, and speech if it is so detrimental to a child's

> > health??

>

> Some people do. Some children are healthy and robust enough their body can

take the biochemical punishment and reap some rewards. This doesn't mean it is

the best choice. However honestly I am glad your son was one of the children who

was able to 'take it,' and did get better. Please do think about this carefully

however. I don't chant about the dangers of IV chelation, and inappropriate

timing (which necessarily goes with it) just for fun. I do it because I want to

help you get your kid as well as you can get him - hopefully all the way to

normalcy.

>

> > While I am not a doctor and I do not understand biochemistry, I continue to

be

> > nervous everytime I chelate him.  However, I have been rewarded by seeing

my son

> > improve before my very eyes.

>

> I am really happy to hear that. Like I said, I really do not wish you or him

ill - I hope this works like magic for him. I just know from experience and

talking to a lot of people that it isn't a likely outcome.

>

> >I was a parent who got up every 3 to 4 hours trying

> > your protocol with only negative results.

>

> You say nothing happened above. Were there problems, or just nothing

happened?

>

> >  The DMSA upset his stomach and caused

> > yeast issues. I tried it myself and it upset my stomach.  Suppositories

got

> > stuck for days and failed to come out.

>

> I don't recommend suppositories. Were you using my protocol or something else

a doctor told you was my protocol?

>

> >  Transdermal creams brought out terrible

> > negative side affects

>

> How did you use them?

>

> >.  IV Chelation has been the best.  I also spoke to several

> > DAN Drs who have been using this protocol with only positive results.

>

> Yeah, when I was sick I got that kind of response from all the doctors too.

On calling around there were many patients who got horribly sick and complained

bitterly to the doctor that the doctor forgot about when telling future patients

it was totally safe and they'd never seen a problem.

>

> Later I did this with dozens of DAN! doctors and got the same result.

>

> I simply don't believe them. The honest ones will talk about the risks and

bad things they've seen but say something like " but I have to try to do

something to help my patients, " or " so much more mercury comes out than any

other way. "

>

> > On a

> > cautionay note, I do not know of any 3 yr olds doing the IV chelation

protocol.

> >

> > I would be interested in knowing anyone who has personally done IV chelation

and

> > the results either positive or negative.

>

>

> The negatives are well and accurately represented on www.dmpsbackfire.com and

I know of innumerable similar cases not given there. Also in EVERY SINGLE ONE

of the cases I know of on that site save one, the doctor continues to this day

to insist they've never seen a problem with DMPS injections.

>

> I've run across adequate numbers of reports of DMPS injection catastrophes

with children, including one who was actually killed by it (but thankfully

revived in the emergency room - I heard about it indirectly from the ER doctor).

>

> > A concerned parent,

>

> Concern is reasonable. You're talking about your son's future and you really

do want to get it right - and it all started with some needle wielding doctors

who said what they were doing was totally safe.

>

> It sounds like from what you are saying that you did not have problems with

ALA on a low frequent dose protocol. You could just try that now and see what

happens.

>

> I would also suggest getting real clarity from the doctor as to exactly what

is in the iv your child receives. Often it isn't just a chelator, the other

things in there may be doing what you are seeing. Along that line it is

possible your kid is one of the ones who is NOT toxic but something ELSE in the

iv is really helpful.

>

> > Greenberg

> >

> > Andy

> >

> > www.noamalgam.com

> >

> > www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html

> >

> > www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html

> >

> > www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html

>

[Guest guest]

>

> I have often wondered about this - the DAN! fascination with needles

It makes them feel like 'real doctors,' and they are generally ostracized by the

'regular' or 'mainstream' cliques.

It makes it more fun and exciting to do more 'sporty' or dangerous stuff.

It is more of an ego boost to convince people to let you stick needles in their

kid or them.

It makes it seem more 'medical' and contributes to the ceremonial value so the

parents eyes glaze over and they do what they're told.

People will come back to pay the doctor to stick needles in, they will pay a lot

less often to get the doctor to do something with pills.

Some of them just don't know what else to do so they listen to the others who

are motivated as above.

One of the things that makes me believe, e. g. that Dr. Cave is a

decent person who is just getting bad information is that she doesn't use every

excuse she can find to stick a needle into the kids. She mostly relies on oral

therapy which even if she is using a bad protocol means she is trusting the

parents and making it so they don't have to pay much in the way of professional

fees to go forward and chelate their kid. I think a lot of doctors are in this

category. Some of those ones do use needles a lot but it is because they have

no real understanding of chemistry or kinetics and just don't know what else to

do.

You also have to remember with the whole needle (and risk) thing: if the

intervention turns out to be a catastrophe, the doctor really doesn't have to

deal with it. You do. The doctor makes a ton more money if you have them help

you deal with it - and they still aren't the ones dealing with, for example,

hours and hours every day of intense high pitched screaming, scratching himself

and others until they bleed, not sleeping more than an hour at a time, and so

on. The risk part is a risk YOU take, not the doctor. The doctor is just going

to keep seeing the ones the needle worked for last time and not have to bother

with the rest.

> - and how anyone can do well on this protocol.

For all their physical and mechanical frailty, children are biochemically pretty

tough.

Even given this it does surprise me there isn't more damage and aren't some dead

bodies around.

>As Andy says, if your child is improving we are happy for you, none of us

wishes ill on your child just to prove us right. However, as I posted in

another thread with the infrequent high dose oral route, which I stupidly

undertook to experiment with on myself, while mercifully at least doing the AC

protocol with my young son, I did great on it for at least 6-8 months and then

the bottom fell out. I would worry that the IV route might ultimately result in

that happening - as I have read many parents attest to.

Yes, this happens routinely with both adults and children. Everything seems

fine for several iv's, then BOOM! All hell breaks loose and years of suffering

start.

> I am reminded of the whole Mb12 shot argument. Andy warned of the many

dangers of shooting high doses of B12 into a child's bloodstream, and all of the

terrible negatives that could happen, better to go the oral route etc, where you

can titrate up or down based on how the child does.

And if they really do turn out to need massive quantities, you can start

injecting it later when you are sure of that and aren't going to have a

catastrophe.

> > > Andy

> > >

> > > www.noamalgam.com

> > >

> > > www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html

> > >

> > > www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html

> > >

> > > www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, ,

A couple of years ago, you wrote in message #259621: " We have recently switched

to R lipoic Acid.... "

And Andy has said (as in this message, #131966):

" ... using R lipoic acid is turning yourself into an original

medical experiment, with the expected high probability of a negative

outcome. "

Your use of r-ALA might well explain the lack of success with low, frequent

dosing.

Ann

>

> I was a parent who got up every 3 to 4 hours trying

> your protocol with only negative results.

[Guest guest]

Well, I can tell you it was a horrible experience. It was hard to find a

vein every time on my son. It was very nerve racking. then he strted

having the delayed, respiratory reactions, which I am now pretty sure was

actually a sign of adrenal distress rather than an allergic reaction. then

to have the DAN say to me, " It's just coincidence. " the very next time the

same delayed reaction happened again, only this time it snowballed into

pneumonia and we wound up at the hospital.

Then to be stupid enough three years later to get talked inot IV again --

only this time with EDTA only, and our sonhad the worst reaction ever. And

the DAN wouldnot listen about getting on board with AC. He wanted to

continue IV but ALSO give oral steroids before each treatment. Drug on top

of drug on top of drug. This is the same physician who when IV brought back

stimming, OCD, and SID just wanted to talk me into putting our son on

Prozac.

Then I found out that, though chelation was covered on insurance for our

son, the doc was not filing it nor was he allowing us to file it. He was

charging us for the whole thing out of pocket every week - 280. I told him

we cannot afford that! Then he took me back in a room and said he would let

us file it on our own but don't tell any of the other parents. This is

crap.

When we wanted to do AC and just use him for blood work or tests as they

came up, he said, " Well, just leave the metals in there then. " real snotty.

Does this sound like a doc who really cares about what has happened to these

kids or helping parents help them, or does this sound like a doc who is in

it for the $$$$? It took us years and thousands of dollars with him

throwing one new supplement fad at us after another. Few of the new fangled

things did anything but drain our bank account.

We haven't been back since.

We went to another clinic recently and we just wanted food allergy testing.

This clinic said they did it. We get there and get railroaded into their

protocol all the while we are saying we are just there for food allergy

testing and nothing else, and it was like they were deaf. about a hundred

dollars later they inform us they don't do food allergy testing. We will

never go back there either.

In the winter of '09 when they had the H1N1 scare ramped up full tilt, our

pediatrician who knows our son's history says to me, " Are you sure you won't

let me give him a flu and H1N1? "

I told him if he shot me first.

Later, when we started AC and my son had not been having to go to the

docotrs all the time for " asthma, " we went in for a well child visit, andhe

couldn't beleive how well my son was doing. I told him we had switched his

supplements around a bit and that Ethan (at that time) had only needed his

rescue inhaler twice and no other asthma meds in several weeks. He could

see our son had had no cellulitis nor other infecitons in many weeks. He

was intrigued.

And then he has the audacity to say, " Well, it really is all about FIRST DO

NO HARM. " - from the same doc who was going ot inject him full of mercury

again! What a joke! I almost burst out laughing!

After our fiasco with DAN, we started AC, and for the first itme since my

son was fifteen months old, he has not had an infection. since beginning

ALA and ACE, his " asthma " is all but gone. He has needed his rescue inhaler

four times in thirteen weeks! Since upping his ACE again abut three weeks

ago, he has not needed ANY asthma meds!

I do wish I could figure out why he has days where he stims off the chart-

such as this last Thursday, but then on Friday when we started our round, he

is a totally different kid -- clam, conversive, focused on his school work.

Today, I haven't heard him stim at all. He is always better on round than

off.

Andy, why is this? It is hard not to wish he could be " on " all the time.

Butno matter how long it takes, we are committed to doing it this way. He

is happy and does not have to get anxious aobut needles or go to the

docotr's every week. Having him healthy for hte first time in nine and a

half years --

All the DANS and other docs ever did was throw more prescription drugs at

us.

Andy, I'd give naything if Ihad listened to you back in 2002 when I first

had the chance! Better late than never I hope.

Haven

[Guest guest]

>

> Thank you everyone for your replies.

> Truly appreciate everyone shedding some light on this and sharing your

experiences with us.

>

> We will obviously at this point hold off.

> We did after all get into this mess to begin with because we injected god

knows what into our son from birth - 15 months.

>

> I am finding it hard to believe that our DAN was so supportive of this. I

find it a sad day when we don't even have a DAN doc to trust anymore. And the

B12 shots? We have not heard a single negative reaction to these? Should we be

concerned about using these since they have benefited our son tremendously.

The negative reaction, which is about 30% incidence, is anger, aggression and

agitation. If he hasn't gotten it yet then if it does happen onset will be

slow. The real problem is that this happens at wildly different amounts for

different people, so when doctors irresponsibly start by injecting high doses of

M-B12 into kids some go off the deep end for months. If you titrate up and stop

when there are clearly problems it clears in a few days to a week.

Depending on the kid's personality, size, strength, and the mommy's size and

strength this is more or less of a problem. E. g. 3 year olds usually are cute

when they try to beat your shin up - 13 year olds are NOT cute especially if

they are big.

> Please forgive me since we are new to this. Could you point us in the right

direction as far as what we should read & research before deciding which form is

the most appropriate for our son?

>

> Finally, I would love to hear from any parent that has chelated a young child.

>

> Thank you!

> Tina Francis

>

Andy

www.noamalgam.com

www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html

www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html

www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html

[Guest guest]

> Later, when we started AC and my son had not been having to go to the

> docotrs all the time for " asthma, " we went in for a well child visit, andhe

> couldn't beleive how well my son was doing. I told him we had switched his

> supplements around a bit and that Ethan (at that time) had only needed his

> rescue inhaler twice and no other asthma meds in several weeks. He could

> see our son had had no cellulitis nor other infecitons in many weeks. He

> was intrigued.

>

> And then he has the audacity to say, " Well, it really is all about FIRST DO

> NO HARM. " - from the same doc who was going ot inject him full of mercury

> again! What a joke! I almost burst out laughing!

Your choice of:

The doctor is severely mentally ill and has no idea what he's saying and doing;

It is his mantra to keep kids sick so he can make a living;

It is his excuse to keep kids sick so his licensing board won't go after him.

> I do wish I could figure out why he has days where he stims off the chart-

> such as this last Thursday, but then on Friday when we started our round, he

> is a totally different kid -- clam, conversive, focused on his school work.

> Today, I haven't heard him stim at all. He is always better on round than

> off.

>

> Andy, why is this?

He may be one of the people who needs more sulfury foods in his diet.

Andy

www.noamalgam.com

www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html

www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html

www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html

[Guest guest]

I forgot to mention about the B12 shots. My son did not gain any weight for

almost two years. We did the B12 shots and he strarted to gain weight.

then he gained too much weight and was way too hyper and voraciously hungry

after the shots. People may be different. I know in my years being around

show horses that many breeders were giving b12 shots to horses to increase

appetite and make them put on weight. It may not be the same for people.

Andy would have to comment on that.

IMO, the only thing I saw was that he finally started to gain a little

weight. But it snowballed and we took him off due to the side effects we

saw. I wouldn't want to poke my son with another needle unless it is

absolutely necessary.