Ammonia

[Guest guest]

Hello & Everyone,

I have an ammonia odor. It is of a feminine nature. It start around the

time of

my Hypo. I had also had my son around the same time. I always thought it

was related to that - I learn something new everyday. Is there some

supplements that I should be taking to get rid of this??

Cheri

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[Guest guest]

Hello, All,

I am HYPO and my urine used to smell like Amonia. (bleach?!) It smelled

that way more so in the past when I used to drink Diet Soda like it was

water. It is not as bad now. (I believe)

Also I have switched to a natural deodorant from antiperspirant, about

2-3 weeks ago when I read that anti-perspirant may cause breast cancer.

Having done that , I feel that my sweat has an acrid smell to it too. HYPOs

don't sweat much at all so I am just glad that I am doing so recently, but

the acid smell annoys me.

Two years ago, I read a book by Ralph Golan (or Golub) that was a Natural

Healing book. (the exact title escapes me) One had to take quizes that

asked about your symptoms etc... It was an excellent book! He listed

amonia smell to urine as a sign of Adrenal Exhaustion.

--Kathleen

In a message dated 6/1/99 1:00:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, BU007@...

writes:

<< Subj: Ammonia

Date: 6/1/99 1:00:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time

From: BU007@...

Reply-to: hyperthyroidismegroups

hyperthyroidismegroups

In a message dated 5/31/99 10:37:49 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

dan.emslander@... writes:

<< Hello and all,

I am new here, My name is ginny emslander. Now I am a basic hypo but

with a twist, I exhibit symptoms of both hyper and hypo, with a possible

graves thrown in now too. I also have quite a few other medical problems

too, but will skip those so not to bore you all and cause your eyes to

droop.

I read Raven's question about the acidity and alkalinity of the tongue.

I have no idea if I have which but I do have something strange and that

is when I cry it smells like ammonia and have not been able to find any

answers about why this is or how to change it, nor what it means to me

and my health.... so if someone has any ideas on this I would love to

hear. ginny >>

Hi Ginny and Everyone,

We have seen that many people have symptoms of both hyperT and hypoT

at the same time, even though this seems like it wouldn't be possible. I

feel that hypoT and hyperT are just different phases of the same condition,

so it's not surprising to me to see symptoms of both at the same time.

Please don't feel like you would be boring us by relating your other

disease symptoms because one thing I've found is that we can learn a lot

about thyroid diseases by studying the diseases that are associated with

them. If we can find that you are suffering from other diseases which are

also the result of nutritional deficiencies which we can determine, then it

adds support to the hypothesis that thyroid conditions are the result of the

same or similar deficiency profiles.

I also found it very interesting that you have Grave's and your tears

smell like ammonia. I looked up ammonia in the medical dictionary and it is

an alkaline gas which is soluble in water (NH3). When I looked up " ammonia

and eye " I found it interesting that ammonia is used to induce tearing

during

experiments. Since many hypers experience tearing which is not only

excessive but stinging, it made sense to me that the reason for this

phenomenon may be the ammonia in the tears. Very few people might be

sensitive to the smell of ammonia, but it's possible that everyone who

experiences stinging tears may have ammonia in the tears.

I looked up " ammonia and thyroid " and found several interesting

studies and have included three at the end of this post. These studies

support your observation that there is an increased amount of ammonia in

people who have thyroid disease.

In the first study you will notice that ammonia is a natural product

of normal chemical processes in the body and is essential for urea

biosynthesis and for glutamate and aspartate synthesis. We have studies

glutamate and aspartate in the past. The amino acid glutamate is the

precursor to glutathione and glutathione peroxidase which is an important

detoxifier in the body and which also seems to be deficient in thyroid

disorders. Aspartate is an amino acid which is synthesized from glutamate

(using vitamin B6 as a cofactor) and which plays important roles in the urea

cycle (nitrogen metabolism) and the Kreb's cycle (carbohydrate metabolism).

(Aspartate is also the amino acid which forms the base of Aspartame, the

artificial sweetener in diet Coke and Pepsi that has been featured on the

Internet as a cause of seizures and other health problems.)

In hyperthyroidism there is an increase in protein catabolism which

means that nitrogen is being liberated and this nitrogen must be eliminated

through the uric acid cycle. This increased metabolism of protein may be

the

reason that ammonia is increased. However, the increased ammonia may have a

purpose: to help increase the body's supply of glutathione and glutathione

peroxidase, which are antioxidants which are needed in increased amounts to

protect the thyroid from free radical damage by the superoxide radical.

I'm not sure exactly what is going on with ammonia, but it would be

interesting if ammonia were playing an important but presently

under-appreciated role in the thyroid disorders. The fact that ammonia is

present in the tears is interesting in light of the side effect of Grave's:

ophthalmopathy, or Grave's eye involvement. It's possible that ammonia

might

be a mediator of some of the damage in the back of the eye which causes the

eye to protrude. I looked for some evidence of this in the literature but

was unable to find anything, so at this point this could be considered just

wild speculation. I often speculate here, however, because some of you

might

have knowledge which might support or refute this hypothesis.

Has anyone else experienced any ammonia odors during either hypoT or

hyperT?

STUDY 1:

" The results of the few studies on the effect of the thyroid status on

nitrogen metabolism have been inconclusive and/or contradictory. In an

attempt to elucidate this important relationship, we have studied the effect

of experimental hypo- and hyperthyroidism on urea biosynthesis and related

processes. We have found that the capacity of the liver to synthesize urea

was increased in hypothyroid rats, as were the activities of the urea cycle

enzymes; there were also changes in the activities of some related enzymes

and in the levels of intermediates and amino acids. Isolated hepatocytes

from

these rats showed an increased capacity for urea synthesis. In hyperthyroid

rats the picture was more complicated, since there was no change in the

urea-synthesizing capacity of the liver, although there were changes in some

enzymes and metabolites. Our results suggest that there may be more

endogenous proteolysis in hypothyroidism which would increase ammonia

production, the ammonia being used primarily for urea biosynthesis and, to a

lesser extent, for glutamate and aspartate synthesis. These overall effects

might be the result of an increase in glucagon and/or cAMP, which, as is

well

known, increase the urea-synthesizing capacity of liver. In hyperthyroidism,

on the other hand, the changes in nitrogen metabolism could be the result of

an increase in protein synthesis, a decrease in catabolic activity, or both. "

STUDY 2

" We describe a 53-year-old woman with portal-systemic encephalopathy and

altered thyroid function. Endocrinological studies revealed low levels of

free thyroid hormone with an inappropriately low level of

thyroid-stimulating

hormone that responded to bolus injection of thyrotropin-releasing hormone

with a normal but somewhat delayed pattern. On the diagnosis of hypothalamic

hypothyroidism, she was treated with levothyroxine sodium. Thyroid hormone

replacement improved not only the symptoms of hypothyroidism but the

hyperammonemia and consciousness disturbance, which suggested a hitherto

undescribed possibility that hypothyroidism may be an exacerbation factor of

hyperammonemia and portal-systemic encephalopathy. "

STUDY 3

" Administration of thyroid hormones causes a dose-dependent increase in

carbamoylphosphate synthase (ammonia) and arginase activities in fetal rat

liver but not in neonatal rat liver. Simultaneous administration of thyroid

and glucocorticosteroid hormones enhances enzyme accumulation still further

in the fetus. When administered before birth, the relative potencies of T4

and reverse T3, compared to T3 are 20--25% and 1--20%, respectively. Both

before and after birth, thyroid hormones enhance DNA content of the liver.

Hypophysectomy of rat fetus reduces the carbamoylphosphate synthase activity

level in hepatocytes to 30--40% of that in intact animals. Thyroid and

glucocorticosteroid hormone administered individually to hypophysectomized

animals stimulate enzyme activity 2- to 3-fold; and if administered

simultaneously, 4- to 6-fold. Premature delivery with continuation of

thyroid

and/or glucocorticosteroid hormone treatment started before birth shows

uninterrupted enzyme accumulation profiles. Delaying birth by progesterone

treatment of the dam leads to uninterrupted but reduced rates of enzyme

accumulation in hepatocytes. "

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[Guest guest]

very interesting that the ammonia may be the cause of eyes bulging, I went to

the

opthamologist April 30th and the doctor for the first time examined my eyes for

bulging eyes and my left is. I have to go back in the next 2-4 weeks for a

recheck

of them. I will bring this up and see if he is aware of this phenomena also,

will

copy this for him.

ginny

BHthkath@... wrote:

> Hello, All,

>

> I am HYPO and my urine used to smell like Amonia. (bleach?!) It smelled

> that way more so in the past when I used to drink Diet Soda like it was

> water. It is not as bad now. (I believe)

>

> Also I have switched to a natural deodorant from antiperspirant, about

> 2-3 weeks ago when I read that anti-perspirant may cause breast cancer.

> Having done that , I feel that my sweat has an acrid smell to it too. HYPOs

> don't sweat much at all so I am just glad that I am doing so recently, but

> the acid smell annoys me.

>

> Two years ago, I read a book by Ralph Golan (or Golub) that was a Natural

> Healing book. (the exact title escapes me) One had to take quizes that

> asked about your symptoms etc... It was an excellent book! He listed

> amonia smell to urine as a sign of Adrenal Exhaustion.

>

> --Kathleen

>

> In a message dated 6/1/99 1:00:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, BU007@...

> writes:

>

> << Subj: Ammonia

> Date: 6/1/99 1:00:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time

> From: BU007@...

> Reply-to: hyperthyroidismegroups

> hyperthyroidismegroups

>

> In a message dated 5/31/99 10:37:49 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> dan.emslander@... writes:

>

> << Hello and all,

> I am new here, My name is ginny emslander. Now I am a basic hypo but

> with a twist, I exhibit symptoms of both hyper and hypo, with a possible

> graves thrown in now too. I also have quite a few other medical problems

> too, but will skip those so not to bore you all and cause your eyes to

> droop.

> I read Raven's question about the acidity and alkalinity of the tongue.

> I have no idea if I have which but I do have something strange and that

> is when I cry it smells like ammonia and have not been able to find any

> answers about why this is or how to change it, nor what it means to me

> and my health.... so if someone has any ideas on this I would love to

> hear. ginny >>

> Hi Ginny and Everyone,

> We have seen that many people have symptoms of both hyperT and hypoT

> at the same time, even though this seems like it wouldn't be possible. I

> feel that hypoT and hyperT are just different phases of the same condition,

> so it's not surprising to me to see symptoms of both at the same time.

> Please don't feel like you would be boring us by relating your other

> disease symptoms because one thing I've found is that we can learn a lot

> about thyroid diseases by studying the diseases that are associated with

> them. If we can find that you are suffering from other diseases which are

> also the result of nutritional deficiencies which we can determine, then it

> adds support to the hypothesis that thyroid conditions are the result of the

> same or similar deficiency profiles.

> I also found it very interesting that you have Grave's and your tears

> smell like ammonia. I looked up ammonia in the medical dictionary and it is

> an alkaline gas which is soluble in water (NH3). When I looked up " ammonia

> and eye " I found it interesting that ammonia is used to induce tearing

> during

> experiments. Since many hypers experience tearing which is not only

> excessive but stinging, it made sense to me that the reason for this

> phenomenon may be the ammonia in the tears. Very few people might be

> sensitive to the smell of ammonia, but it's possible that everyone who

> experiences stinging tears may have ammonia in the tears.

> I looked up " ammonia and thyroid " and found several interesting

> studies and have included three at the end of this post. These studies

> support your observation that there is an increased amount of ammonia in

> people who have thyroid disease.

> In the first study you will notice that ammonia is a natural product

> of normal chemical processes in the body and is essential for urea

> biosynthesis and for glutamate and aspartate synthesis. We have studies

> glutamate and aspartate in the past. The amino acid glutamate is the

> precursor to glutathione and glutathione peroxidase which is an important

> detoxifier in the body and which also seems to be deficient in thyroid

> disorders. Aspartate is an amino acid which is synthesized from glutamate

> (using vitamin B6 as a cofactor) and which plays important roles in the urea

> cycle (nitrogen metabolism) and the Kreb's cycle (carbohydrate metabolism).

> (Aspartate is also the amino acid which forms the base of Aspartame, the

> artificial sweetener in diet Coke and Pepsi that has been featured on the

> Internet as a cause of seizures and other health problems.)

> In hyperthyroidism there is an increase in protein catabolism which

> means that nitrogen is being liberated and this nitrogen must be eliminated

> through the uric acid cycle. This increased metabolism of protein may be

> the

> reason that ammonia is increased. However, the increased ammonia may have a

> purpose: to help increase the body's supply of glutathione and glutathione

> peroxidase, which are antioxidants which are needed in increased amounts to

> protect the thyroid from free radical damage by the superoxide radical.

> I'm not sure exactly what is going on with ammonia, but it would be

> interesting if ammonia were playing an important but presently

> under-appreciated role in the thyroid disorders. The fact that ammonia is

> present in the tears is interesting in light of the side effect of Grave's:

> ophthalmopathy, or Grave's eye involvement. It's possible that ammonia

> might

> be a mediator of some of the damage in the back of the eye which causes the

> eye to protrude. I looked for some evidence of this in the literature but

> was unable to find anything, so at this point this could be considered just

> wild speculation. I often speculate here, however, because some of you

> might

> have knowledge which might support or refute this hypothesis.

> Has anyone else experienced any ammonia odors during either hypoT or

> hyperT?

>

> STUDY 1:

> " The results of the few studies on the effect of the thyroid status on

> nitrogen metabolism have been inconclusive and/or contradictory. In an

> attempt to elucidate this important relationship, we have studied the effect

> of experimental hypo- and hyperthyroidism on urea biosynthesis and related

> processes. We have found that the capacity of the liver to synthesize urea

> was increased in hypothyroid rats, as were the activities of the urea cycle

> enzymes; there were also changes in the activities of some related enzymes

> and in the levels of intermediates and amino acids. Isolated hepatocytes

> from

> these rats showed an increased capacity for urea synthesis. In hyperthyroid

> rats the picture was more complicated, since there was no change in the

> urea-synthesizing capacity of the liver, although there were changes in some

> enzymes and metabolites. Our results suggest that there may be more

> endogenous proteolysis in hypothyroidism which would increase ammonia

> production, the ammonia being used primarily for urea biosynthesis and, to a

> lesser extent, for glutamate and aspartate synthesis. These overall effects

> might be the result of an increase in glucagon and/or cAMP, which, as is

> well

> known, increase the urea-synthesizing capacity of liver. In hyperthyroidism,

> on the other hand, the changes in nitrogen metabolism could be the result of

> an increase in protein synthesis, a decrease in catabolic activity, or both. "

>

> STUDY 2

> " We describe a 53-year-old woman with portal-systemic encephalopathy and

> altered thyroid function. Endocrinological studies revealed low levels of

> free thyroid hormone with an inappropriately low level of

> thyroid-stimulating

> hormone that responded to bolus injection of thyrotropin-releasing hormone

> with a normal but somewhat delayed pattern. On the diagnosis of hypothalamic

> hypothyroidism, she was treated with levothyroxine sodium. Thyroid hormone

> replacement improved not only the symptoms of hypothyroidism but the

> hyperammonemia and consciousness disturbance, which suggested a hitherto

> undescribed possibility that hypothyroidism may be an exacerbation factor of

> hyperammonemia and portal-systemic encephalopathy. "

>

> STUDY 3

> " Administration of thyroid hormones causes a dose-dependent increase in

> carbamoylphosphate synthase (ammonia) and arginase activities in fetal rat

> liver but not in neonatal rat liver. Simultaneous administration of thyroid

> and glucocorticosteroid hormones enhances enzyme accumulation still further

> in the fetus. When administered before birth, the relative potencies of T4

> and reverse T3, compared to T3 are 20--25% and 1--20%, respectively. Both

> before and after birth, thyroid hormones enhance DNA content of the liver.

> Hypophysectomy of rat fetus reduces the carbamoylphosphate synthase activity

> level in hepatocytes to 30--40% of that in intact animals. Thyroid and

> glucocorticosteroid hormone administered individually to hypophysectomized

> animals stimulate enzyme activity 2- to 3-fold; and if administered

> simultaneously, 4- to 6-fold. Premature delivery with continuation of

> thyroid

> and/or glucocorticosteroid hormone treatment started before birth shows

> uninterrupted enzyme accumulation profiles. Delaying birth by progesterone

> treatment of the dam leads to uninterrupted but reduced rates of enzyme

> accumulation in hepatocytes. "

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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> " Military Spouse Unlimited " - Participate in this support group for

> military spouses of on-duty servicemen and women.

> http://clickhere./click/118

> >>

>

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[Guest guest]

, my name is , I'm new at this, does

ammonia build up in the brain cause the brain fog?

Just wonderind, I was told that i was also in the end

stages of AIH cirrosis, as well as drug induced. I

still have alot of ques. but my last labs were perfect

and I am only on actigall for the jaundice. But my

bili-rubin is 1.3 away from normal. What do I expect

now that my labs look sooooo good?

--- dagelo <dagelo@...> wrote:

> Hi Kay,

> What I have is end stage cirrhosis (due to AIH) and

> the most severe complications are hepatic

> encephalopathy, ascites, and bleeding esophageal

> varices. It is important for me to mention that not

> all people who have AIH will develop cirrhosis. I

> am in the work-up process for a transplant --- got 2

> children 13 & 15 to raise, so I must keep my faith

> that I will be OK! By the way, I am on Lactulose

> which helps prevent ammonia build up in the

> brain...that is the cause of encephalopathy.

> God bless you and us all,

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

It is important for me to mention that not

> all people who have AIH will develop cirrhosis.

Also, just an F.Y.I. Not everyone with cirrhosis will develop esophogeal

varacies, portal hypertenion, ascites etc.... Its the placement of the

scarring that determins alot of this.

My Gastro noted that he has many patients who are at a Childs Level 3

cirrhosis and never ever have these symptoms, unlike myself who is at a

Childs Level 1 cirrhosis has managed to develop most of them especially the

bleeding due to the placement of were the scarring is. Although I have less

scarring, it right at the protal vein causing all the problems. My liver is

only at the beginning stages of cirrhosis with many miles left on it yet I

suffer many of these life threatening complications early and some never do.

Thanks, Jen

On Mon, 12 Mar 2001 10:00:23 -0800 (PST),

wrote:

> , my name is , I'm new at this, does

> ammonia build up in the brain cause the brain fog?

> Just wonderind, I was told that i was also in the end

> stages of AIH cirrosis, as well as drug induced. I

> still have alot of ques. but my last labs were perfect

> and I am only on actigall for the jaundice. But my

> bili-rubin is 1.3 away from normal. What do I expect

> now that my labs look sooooo good?

> --- dagelo <dagelo@...> wrote:

> > Hi Kay,

> > What I have is end stage cirrhosis (due to AIH) and

> > the most severe complications are hepatic

> > encephalopathy, ascites, and bleeding esophageal

> > varices. It is important for me to mention that not

> > all people who have AIH will develop cirrhosis. I

> > am in the work-up process for a transplant --- got 2

> > children 13 & 15 to raise, so I must keep my faith

> > that I will be OK! By the way, I am on Lactulose

> > which helps prevent ammonia build up in the

> > brain...that is the cause of encephalopathy.

> > God bless you and us all,

> >

> >

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Jen -- you say that your doctor says you may be the only one in the state with this disease. I can't remember -- which disease do you have? (And which state, if you don't mind saying.)

Harper

[Guest guest]

You have a great doctor : Ha Ha Hee Hee, Genny

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/12/01 7:33:36 PM Pacific Standard Time, jcando@... writes:

:

1) HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA funny

2) AIH , NM

Jen

On Mon, 12 Mar 2001 21:37:53 EST, wrote:

> Jen -- you say that your doctor says you may be the only one in the state

> with this disease. I can't remember -- which disease do you have? (And > which state, if you don't mind saying.)

> Harper

No, I wasn't joking. I have no idea how common AIH is. My doctor says it isn't rare at all, that he has a dozen patients with it. (However, I learned last week that one of his assistants has no idea what the side effects of Prednisone are.) I ran into someone who became ill with it in May, as I did -- only she wasn't diagnosed promptly, as I was. She had a transplant in August.

So, I was asking quite seriously, what disease, what state, to get some idea of how common it is. Do you have access to good medical care, do you have to travel far to get to a doctor?

Harper (AIH 5/00)

[Guest guest]

Hi , The best way to answer your question is to look at this excellent link that Jerry recommended. Just click on this site and it will come up.

http://vibes.vossnet.co.uk/c/crina/pag-cirrhosis.html

Yes, ammonia buildup is the reason I am on lactulose (which apparently is working as my last blood ammonia level was 19 (normal 9-33). The encephalopathy is most disturbing when you are aware of it with confusion and disorientation, slow recall, and difficulty concentrating. As noted by other members of this group, not all people with AIH will develop serious complications. That is one of the wonderful aspects of our group is being able to check out how other folks are dealing with the trials of this chronic illness. My GI doc has 20 patients on imuran and low doses of prednisone for more than 5-10 years who are doing OK and he says that they should look forward to a normal lifespan.

It is with my faith in God that I know I will endure this. I pray for all of us everyday.

God bless,

[Guest guest]

Wow, your doc alone has 20 pts on Imuran/Prednisone treatments? I take it

they all have AIH? Thats amazing. I think I am the only one my doc is

treating for this, and if I recall correctly, he did mention that I may be

the only one in the state with the disease.

Jen

And yes I agree that the article Jerry sent was excellent!

On Mon, 12 Mar 2001 20:41:41 -0500, wrote:

> Hi , The best way to answer your question is to look at this

excellent link that Jerry recommended. Just click on this site and it will

come up.

> http://vibes.vossnet.co.uk/c/crina/pag-cirrhosis.html

>

> Yes, ammonia buildup is the reason I am on lactulose (which apparently is

working as my last blood ammonia level was 19 (normal 9-33). The

encephalopathy is most disturbing when you are aware of it with confusion

and disorientation, slow recall, and difficulty concentrating. As noted by

other members of this group, not all people with AIH will develop serious

complications. That is one of the wonderful aspects of our group is being

able to check out how other folks are dealing with the trials of this

chronic illness. My GI doc has 20 patients on imuran and low doses of

prednisone for more than 5-10 years who are doing OK and he says that they

should look forward to a normal lifespan.

> It is with my faith in God that I know I will endure this. I pray for

all of us everyday.

> God bless,

>

_______________________________________________________

Send a cool gift with your E-Card

http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/

[Guest guest]

Hi Jen...my doc has 20 post transplant patients and those patients on imuran and prednisone have a variety of GI diseases (4 of us with AIH), some with PSC or Crohn's, etc. You are correct...AIH is not a "common" disorder and many doctors still refer to it as lupoid hepatitis, cryptogenic hepatitis, or idiopathic hepatitis. (A rose is a rose is a rose LOL)

[Guest guest]

Harper,

I can't tell if your joking and poking fun or serious. So I'll answer

both ways:

1) HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA funny

2) AIH , NM

Jen

On Mon, 12 Mar 2001 21:37:53 EST, wrote:

> Jen -- you say that your doctor says you may be the only one in the state

> with this disease. I can't remember -- which disease do you have? (And

> which state, if you don't mind saying.)

> Harper

_______________________________________________________

Send a cool gift with your E-Card

http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/

[Guest guest]

At 09:14 AMFriday 9/7/2001, you wrote:

> > If you are eating 50 grams of protein at every meal, then a lot of it is

> > getting used for fuel, which produces the waste product of ammonia,

> which in

> > turn catabolizes muscle tissue.

>

>Can you provide a reference for this? Sounds like fantasy to me.

>

>

>Mooloolaba QLD

>Australia

Most of what he has written is pseudo science at best. Is it any wonder

why some won't grow?

G. C. Ph.D.

(Endocrinology)

NH, U.S.A.

[Guest guest]

> If you are eating 50 grams of protein at every meal, then a lot of it is

> getting used for fuel, which produces the waste product of ammonia, which in

> turn catabolizes muscle tissue.

Can you provide a reference for this? Sounds like fantasy to me.

Mooloolaba QLD

Australia

[Guest guest]

Go www.colganinstitute.com and click on 'have a nutrition question'. You'll get

all the information you need there. Incidentally, whats your deadlift up to

these days, doc(or do you just study strength)?

Lemieux

Tupper Lake

NY USA

> At 09:14 AMFriday 9/7/2001, you wrote:

>

> > > If you are eating 50 grams of protein at every meal, then a lot of it is

> > > getting used for fuel, which produces the waste product of ammonia,

> > which in

> > > turn catabolizes muscle tissue.

> >

> >Can you provide a reference for this? Sounds like fantasy to me.

> >

> >

> >Mooloolaba QLD

> >Australia

>

>

> Most of what he has written is pseudo science at best. Is it any wonder

> why some won't grow?

>

> G. C. Ph.D.

> (Endocrinology)

> NH, U.S.A.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Aisha,

What I understands happens is that since the liver doesn't break down the foods/toxins in our body the ammonia builds up in the GI track instead of being broken down to something the body can use or dispose of easily. This doesn't make the liver worse - it's a symptom that the liver is getting less able. If not dealt with, it builds to a toxic level and affects your brain. I was told that at my level of 211, some people would have been in a coma but I wasn't. Some people react much more quickly to it. The dr. office orders an ammonia check - it's another blood test to see how the numbers are doing. Hope this makes sense

Take care - it's a lot of information to try and absorb, but it all comes together the more you read and hear about it.

Enjoy our sunshine:)

Amy

[Guest guest]

Amy, at what stage does the liver NOT break down the food/toxins...just wondering if this is something I can expect to happen no matter what...also, you said enjoy our sunshine....where are you...because it is sunny this week in Seattle. aisha [ ] Re: ammonia Hi Aisha, What I understands happens is that since the liver doesn't break down the foods/toxins in our body the ammonia builds up in the GI track instead of being broken down to something the body can use or dispose of easily. This doesn't make the liver worse - it's a symptom that the liver is getting less able. If not dealt with, it builds to a toxic level and affects your brain. I was told that at my level of 211, some people would have been in a coma but I wasn't. Some people react much more quickly to it. The dr. office orders an ammonia check - it's another blood test to see how the numbers are doing. Hope this makes sense :)Take care - it's a lot of information to try and absorb, but it all comes together the more you read and hear about it.Enjoy our sunshine:)Amy

[Guest guest]

Suzie want you mean you don't know any one down here!! I'm down here!! In Milwaukee WI, just down from you..Heck when we go to deer camp we are just across the lake from you!!!We get a lot of Canadas Transplant people here!!! No kidding..But hey I respect your descion you know.. It is after all you liver hon!! But I am not NOBODY!!!! Kathysuzie <suzieandsandy@...> wrote: Hi Guys, I

went for blood tests last week, to check the ammonia again, now that I've been taking my Lactulose like a good little girl. Today I got a call from my doctor's office saying I'd better make an appointment with the gastro cause the ammonia is worse than last time! I've got an appointment with my family doctor on Feb 3 so I'll talk to her then & decide what to do. My next appointment with the gastro is in April so I may just have to move it up. About the TP, if I did change my mind the nearest TP center is about 1,000 miles away so I'd pretty much have to move there.; SpYke wouldn't like that & neither would I. My answer is still no, I don't think so. I don't know anyone down there nor do I want to. I'm comfortable & about as happy as I can get here. One or two more snow falls & I'm getting out the spray paint. I've got snow about three feet deep in my yard & snowbanks around 4 feet. If they get to 5 feet I'll have my painted garden in the yard. Fun. Hugs, SuZie Next time I'm coming back as a cat Kathy Brunow

[Guest guest]

Sorry Kathy-Boo I was referring to the area around Hamilton or is it Guelph ? Whatever, it's still quite a ways from you. I get the impression I'd have to be closer than that. You are definitely NOT nobody. Hugs, SuZieKathy Brunow <kathy-boo@...> wrote: Suzie want you mean you don't know any one down here!! I'm down here!! In Milwaukee WI, just down from you..Heck when we go to deer camp we are just across the lake from you!!!We get a lot of Canadas Transplant people here!!! No kidding..But hey I respect your descion you know.. It is after all

you liver hon!! But I am not NOBODY!!!! Kathysuzie <suzieandsandy@...> wrote: Hi Guys, I went for blood tests last week, to check the ammonia again, now that I've been taking my Lactulose like a good little girl. Today I got a call from my doctor's office saying I'd better make an appointment with the gastro cause the ammonia is worse than last time! I've got an appointment with my family doctor on Feb 3 so I'll talk to her

then & decide what to do. My next appointment with the gastro is in April so I may just have to move it up. About the TP, if I did change my mind the nearest TP center is about 1,000 miles away so I'd pretty much have to move there.; SpYke wouldn't like that & neither would I. My answer is still no, I don't think so. I don't know anyone down there nor do I want to. I'm comfortable & about as happy as I can get here. One or two more snow falls & I'm getting out the spray paint. I've got snow about three feet deep in my yard & snowbanks around 4 feet. If they get to 5 feet I'll have my painted garden in the yard. Fun. Hugs, SuZie Next time I'm coming back as a cat

Next time I'm coming back as a cat

[Guest guest]

Suzie we are a straight shot down from you.. My Clinic has quite a few folks from different areas.. Toronto, Upper peninsula Wis,Minnesota. etc..We would be closer than London ONT Cananda..And if a person can get down here from Toronto you can.. We have two of the best TP Centers in the USA..Kathy Boosuzie <suzieandsandy@...> wrote: Hepatitis CSupportGroupForDummies From: suzie <suzieandsandy@...>Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 23:52:12 -0800 (PST)Subject: Re: Ammonia Sorry Kathy-Boo I was referring to the area around Hamilton or is it Guelph ? Whatever, it's still quite a ways from you. I get the impression I'd have to be closer

than that. You are definitely NOT nobody. Hugs, SuZieKathy Brunow <kathy-boo@...> wrote: Suzie want you mean you don't know any one down here!! I'm down here!! In Milwaukee WI, just down from you..Heck when we go to deer camp we are just across the lake from you!!!We get a lot of Canadas Transplant people here!!! No kidding..But hey I respect your descion you know.. It is after all you liver hon!! But I am not NOBODY!!!! KathyKathy Brunow

[Guest guest]

Suzie we are a straight shot down from you.. My Clinic has quite a few folks from different areas.. Toronto, Upper peninsula Wis,Minnesota. etc..We would be closer than London ONT Cananda..And if a person can get down here from Toronto you can.. We have two of the best TP Centers in the USA..Kathy Boosuzie <suzieandsandy@...> wrote: Hepatitis CSupportGroupForDummies From: suzie <suzieandsandy@...>Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 23:52:12 -0800 (PST)Subject: Re: Ammonia Sorry Kathy-Boo I was referring to the area around Hamilton or is it Guelph ? Whatever, it's still quite a ways from you. I get the impression I'd have to be closer

than that. You are definitely NOT nobody. Hugs, SuZieKathy Brunow <kathy-boo@...> wrote: Suzie want you mean you don't know any one down here!! I'm down here!! In Milwaukee WI, just down from you..Heck when we go to deer camp we are just across the lake from you!!!We get a lot of Canadas Transplant people here!!! No kidding..But hey I respect your descion you know.. It is after all you liver hon!! But I am not NOBODY!!!! KathyKathy Brunow

[Guest guest]

The hospitals in Toronto do have 1room apartments,perhaps your doctor could arrange something temperary for you or even social services is supposed to with a note from your doctor.I have a son in borugh that goes to work in Toronto every day and a nefew that lives in Toronto area.If I can help I will.

Gail

-----Original Message-----From: Hepatitis CSupportGroupForDummies [mailto:Hepatitis CSupportGroupForDummies ]On Behalf Of suzieSent: January 24, 2006 11:52 PMHepatitis CSupportGroupForDummies Subject: Re: Ammonia

Sorry Kathy-Boo I was referring to the area around Hamilton or is it Guelph ? Whatever, it's still quite a ways from you. I get the impression I'd have to be closer than that. You are definitely NOT nobody.

Hugs,

SuZieKathy Brunow <kathy-boo@...> wrote:

Suzie want you mean you don't know any one down here!! I'm down here!! In Milwaukee WI, just down from you..Heck when we go to deer camp we are just across the lake from you!!!We get a lot of Canadas Transplant people here!!! No kidding..But hey I respect your descion you know.. It is after all you liver hon!! But I am not NOBODY!!!! Kathysuzie <suzieandsandy@...> wrote:

Hi Guys,

I went for blood tests last week, to check the ammonia again, now that I've been taking my Lactulose like a good little girl. Today I got a call from my doctor's office saying I'd better make an appointment with the gastro cause the ammonia is worse than last time! I've got an appointment with my family doctor on Feb 3 so I'll talk to her then & decide what to do. My next appointment with the gastro is in April so I may just have to move it up.

About the TP, if I did change my mind the nearest TP center is about 1,000 miles away so I'd pretty much have to move there.; SpYke wouldn't like that & neither would I. My answer is still no, I don't think so. I don't know anyone down there nor do I want to. I'm comfortable & about as happy as I can get here.

One or two more snow falls & I'm getting out the spray paint. I've got snow about three feet deep in my yard & snowbanks around 4 feet. If they get to 5 feet I'll have my painted garden in the yard. Fun.

Hugs,

SuZie

Next time I'm coming back as a cat

Next time I'm coming back as a cat

[Guest guest]

Unless Suzies family doctor sends her to a specialist there our medical won't cover it.There is a TP in Toronto and she can make arrangements with the hospital for acomodations while she has to be there.

Gail

Re: Ammonia

Sorry Kathy-Boo I was referring to the area around Hamilton or is it Guelph ? Whatever, it's still quite a ways from you. I get the impression I'd have to be closer than that. You are definitely NOT nobody.

Hugs,

SuZieKathy Brunow <kathy-boo@...> wrote:

Suzie want you mean you don't know any one down here!! I'm down here!! In Milwaukee WI, just down from you..Heck when we go to deer camp we are just across the lake from you!!!We get a lot of Canadas Transplant people here!!! No kidding..But hey I respect your descion you know.. It is after all you liver hon!! But I am not NOBODY!!!! Kathy

Kathy Brunow

[Guest guest]

Hi, The infectious disease guy I see (Dr Idiot) wants me to go down east - I haven't asked where cause I'm really not interested in a transplant. I've got an appointment with him in April & will ask at that time where he wants to send me. It won't be anywhere in the States, that's for sure, OHIP - the Ontario health program - won't pay for me to go to the States when comparable tx is available here & it is. I'm thinking of going for the assessment just to find out how my liver feels. The past few days I've done nothing but sleep - wake up for a few minutes then back to sleep. I've never done that before - anyone have an idea what's going on? HUGS,

SuZiegail <gaila@...> wrote: Unless Suzies family doctor sends her to a specialist there our medical won't cover it.There is a TP in Toronto and she can make arrangements with the hospital for acomodations while she has to be there. Gail Re: Ammonia Sorry Kathy-Boo I was referring to the area around Hamilton or is it Guelph ? Whatever, it's still quite a ways from you. I get the impression I'd have to be closer than that. You are definitely NOT nobody. Hugs, SuZieKathy Brunow <kathy-boo@...> wrote: Suzie want you mean you don't know any one down here!! I'm down here!! In Milwaukee WI, just down from you..Heck when we go to deer camp we are just across the lake from you!!!We get a lot of Canadas Transplant people here!!! No kidding..But hey I respect your descion you know.. It is after all you liver hon!! But I am not

NOBODY!!!! Kathy Kathy Brunow

Next time I'm coming back as a cat

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Here in the states ID Dr's are great,but I wouldn't go to one for Hep C.I know we are talking about different country's so Im just talking from some experience and off the top of my head.please don't take any offense.

The best option here is a Hepatolagist,a GI specialist that has specialized again in Hepatitis.Most here might insist on a transplant or not treat.They can be jerks.

There are some Hematologist(blood specialist) that are very good and also some great Internal Medicine Dr's that are very Knowledgeable.

I don't know how much choice you have there,I've heard it takes forever to get tests and have seen many Canadians come to the states for treatment or different kinds of tests.

You say you don't want a transplant but it sounds like your end stage.Do you have close family?If not here in the states you would be in trouble,support is important.

Here I would suggest at least a good sympathetic Family Dr. that would treat you Pallatively.

Wish you the best

Re: Ammonia

Sorry Kathy-Boo I was referring to the area around Hamilton or is it Guelph ? Whatever, it's still quite a ways from you. I get the impression I'd have to be closer than that. You are definitely NOT nobody.

Hugs,

SuZieKathy Brunow <kathy-boo@...> wrote:

Suzie want you mean you don't know any one down here!! I'm down here!! In Milwaukee WI, just down from you..Heck when we go to deer camp we are just across the lake from you!!!We get a lot of Canadas Transplant people here!!! No kidding..But hey I respect your descion you know.. It is after all you liver hon!! But I am not NOBODY!!!! Kathy

Kathy Brunow

Next time I'm coming back as a cat