Newbie

[Guest guest]

Hi Jill. What a way to contract Lyme -- in France! You definitely

have style. =)

So glad you are getting proper treatment now. It's an up and down

kind of thing, this healing process.

Blessings,

> Hey, My Name is Jill Harrop, I'm 21 and located in Toronto Canada. I

> was bitten in France in July of 99 (possibly for the second time). I

> have lost at least 4 years of my life to this disease, 3 years with

> doctors telling me I'm insane,even though my blood tests made no

> sense. I have been through so many treatments and understand how

> frusterating this disease is. I am now finally being treated properly

> and I am starting to feel better, and as most of you know, worst at

> the same time. I would love to offer advice and support for anyone

> who needs it. If you just want to talk with someone who understands

> I'm here. Can't wait to talk to everyone!

[Guest guest]

You do go with style, girl! :-)

>From: " Hannah " <j.sloane@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: [ ] Re: newbie

>Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 21:32:20 -0000

>

>Hi Jill. What a way to contract Lyme -- in France! You definitely

>have style. =)

>

>So glad you are getting proper treatment now. It's an up and down

>kind of thing, this healing process.

>

>Blessings,

>

>

>

> > Hey, My Name is Jill Harrop, I'm 21 and located in Toronto Canada. I

> > was bitten in France in July of 99 (possibly for the second time). I

> > have lost at least 4 years of my life to this disease, 3 years with

> > doctors telling me I'm insane,even though my blood tests made no

> > sense. I have been through so many treatments and understand how

> > frusterating this disease is. I am now finally being treated properly

> > and I am starting to feel better, and as most of you know, worst at

> > the same time. I would love to offer advice and support for anyone

> > who needs it. If you just want to talk with someone who understands

> > I'm here. Can't wait to talk to everyone!

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

Cheer a special someone with a fun Halloween eCard from American Greetings!

Go to http://www.msn.americangreetings.com/index_msn.pd?source=msne134

[Guest guest]

Been there done that. I was treated within the first 4 months but

when I had a reaction to Doxy the doc put me on prednasone so I

could continue to take the Doxy (just made things worse) but every

doc since thought I was crazy, except the pshrink they sent me to

who agreed that my symptoms warrented more treatment, at which point

he was deamed to be outside his medical speciality and wrong.

I finialy am seeing a LLMD and getting correct treatment also. No

one but another Lyme paitent can really understand what it is all

about.

Welcome to the group here and I hope both of our treatments go well

and we can at least control the disease.

Dave

> Hey, My Name is Jill Harrop, I'm 21 and located in Toronto Canada.

I

> was bitten in France in July of 99 (possibly for the second time).

I

> have lost at least 4 years of my life to this disease, 3 years

with

> doctors telling me I'm insane,even though my blood tests made no

> sense. I have been through so many treatments and understand how

> frusterating this disease is. I am now finally being treated

properly

> and I am starting to feel better, and as most of you know, worst

at

> the same time. I would love to offer advice and support for anyone

> who needs it. If you just want to talk with someone who

understands

> I'm here. Can't wait to talk to everyone!

[Guest guest]

Davy - If you look in the archive on 8/14/04, you will find a message

titled " now I am herxing " . Read that. If you can't get to it, I'll

send you a copy. It was very helpful to me, and may help you at this

difficult time. Laureen

>Three years ago, I was playing piano for a doctoral voice recital,

>when I started having problems with my hands. They seemed to not

>want to do what I wanted them to do. A few months later, I started

>having terrible jaw, then neck, then shoulder pain. It was hard, but

>I thought that I was getting by until a friend asked me why I was

>limping. This was the start of two years of neurologists and docs

>and insurance and loss. I lost the ability to play piano, to teach

>to enjoy, to live. I was told I had Arthritis, then MS and then

>Dystopia because my head and hands shake so badly. So far I had been

>able to drag myself around using forearm crutches, but I knew that

>soon that would not work either. Between the constant neck and

>shoulder pain and the ever increasing loss of my indendence, I gave

>up. I moved back to Texas from New Orleans, I left my friends and

>students and life there to move back close to my family. I bought a

>house and got myself ready for the fact that I was about to end up

>in a wheelchair. My legs at this point barely work. I had reached

>the end until about six weeks ago when a friend who had incested

>that I have some crazy blood test called the Western Blot for Lymes.

>I had already been tested (Elise) for and told three times that I

>did not have Lymes. The test came back showing that I had long term

>Lymes. I took the test to my doctor, who put me on 21 days of 20

>million units of IV Pen. treatment. I am now on 200 mg of

>doxycycline and 1000 mg of Cipro (in case of co-infection). The fogs

>that I have that make me seem like I am day dreaming are getting

>worse, and tha pain is more that ever. I know that this is expected

>with treatment, but I thought that I would start to see some

>difference by now. Is all this damage permanent? How long til I

>know? I have read so many things that at this point, I am more

>confused and hopeless than ever. I always thought that finding out

>what was wrong would make things easier, but they are only worse. I

>would appreciate your advise.

>

>Davy

[Guest guest]

> I was just diagnosed two days ago. Very confused about this. I need

> some advise. Just started on Doxy. Doctor stated in about 3 months I

> would be completely fine. Today after 1 1/2 days of med I feel much

> worse.

Its easy to be confused about Lyme, about the diagnosis, the treatment and

the testing. After a person starts antibiotics for Lyme it is common to

feel worse, its called a Herx ( jerrisch-herxheimer reaction) , it is the

bodies reaction to die-off from the medicine. Sometimes it lasts only a few

days, sometimes longer. If you were diagnosed within a few days of

infection, thats great! Sometimes though, if the infection was ongoing,

treatment can be tough and long. If after a couple of months you are

still feeling crappy, you probably need more antibiotics. Sometimes people

test positive yet have no symptoms, which completely baffles Drs, why does

subject A feel bad, while subject B doesnt? Do you treat B?

There is a lot of great info out there, lymenet.org is just one site.

Take care and keep your chin up, it WILL get better,

[Guest guest]

You can get a month's supply of doxycycline for about 8 bucks! Who needs

insurance to at least do something?!!

Greg

[ ] newbie

Dear All,

I'm brand new to the list. I have had Lyme for at least 20-25 years and

only just found out Thursday. I'm in a tail spin. I have run the gammut of

emotions in the last few days.

We have no insurance and so the antibiotics aren't even an option for me.

Suzi wrote: I am looking into the salt/vitamin C protocol.

Well dear woman, you wrote my story out for everyone to read so I wont

repeat it. I have all of the major complications of Lyme or at least 95% of

them. Through a round about way I found a natural doctor who's got a clinic

2.5 hours from me (close to Palm Springs, CA) and DH is trying to get me in.

Because I have had Lyme for so long my heart is bad from it and so we have

to address that before I can go check in for 10 days for a cleanse. They go

through the whole nine yards, candida, parasite, liver, all internal organs

and cellular cleansing. Then they attack the Lyme with the salt and C.

Wanna come in with me?

Is there anyone here who has tried the salt and C? The doctors wife has

Lyme and has been doing it for like 2 months, they are also trying something

else on her, she's his guinea pig.

I'm glad you all are here, it makes me feel better knowing I'm not alone as

I've been radically mood swinging for a few days here. Hey, is there anyone

here in So. Cal? I'm in Gorman currently, we are building and moving to

Lebec. Between LA and Bakersfield.

Blessings,

www.wendysmodestdress.com

Questions and/or comments can be directed to the list owner at

-Owner

[Guest guest]

,

That clinic sounds great. I would love to hear more about it, maybe there is

one on the east coast. I live in Northeastern PA and there isn't much here

regarding alternative medicine. From what I have read, it seems that doing

cleansings first and then attacking the lyme is the way to go. I hear so many

conflicting things that it makes my head spin. Keep us posted on your treatment

if you can. Thanks.

Best wishes,

Suzy

[ ] newbie

Dear All,

I'm brand new to the list. I have had Lyme for at least 20-25 years and

only just found out Thursday. I'm in a tail spin. I have run the gammut of

emotions in the last few days.

We have no insurance and so the antibiotics aren't even an option for me.

Suzi wrote: I am looking into the salt/vitamin C protocol.

Well dear woman, you wrote my story out for everyone to read so I wont

repeat it. I have all of the major complications of Lyme or at least 95% of

them. Through a round about way I found a natural doctor who's got a clinic

2.5 hours from me (close to Palm Springs, CA) and DH is trying to get me in.

Because I have had Lyme for so long my heart is bad from it and so we have

to address that before I can go check in for 10 days for a cleanse. They go

through the whole nine yards, candida, parasite, liver, all internal organs

and cellular cleansing. Then they attack the Lyme with the salt and C.

Wanna come in with me?

Is there anyone here who has tried the salt and C? The doctors wife has

Lyme and has been doing it for like 2 months, they are also trying something

else on her, she's his guinea pig.

I'm glad you all are here, it makes me feel better knowing I'm not alone as

I've been radically mood swinging for a few days here. Hey, is there anyone

here in So. Cal? I'm in Gorman currently, we are building and moving to

Lebec. Between LA and Bakersfield.

Blessings,

www.wendysmodestdress.com

[Guest guest]

Hello, Suzy

I'm in northern Bucks Co., Pa. myself and, though I have not yet gone to

the following clinic, I am aware of a two-facility center (thanks to

listmember Jeannie !) that you might want to investigate: the Clymer

Health Clinic (or the Clymer Healing Clinic/Center). They do have a

website (sorry, don't have the URL). The clinic does NOT take insurance,

but attempts to keep costs down as much as possible, from what I

understand. Their " sister " facility is called Woodlands (Research or

Healing Center) which DOES take insurance. The Clymer clinic practices

mostly (though, AFAIK, not exclusively) alternative therapies. I'm not

sure about the Woodlands center.

These places are located in the Quakertown, Pa. area. The website, of

course, has a map for those interested. )

On Sun, 5 Jun 2005 01:03:26 -0400 " Suzy Flynn " <sflynn@...> writes:

> ,

> That clinic sounds great. I would love to hear more about it, maybe

> there is one on the east coast. I live in Northeastern PA and

> there isn't much here regarding alternative medicine. From what I

> have read, it seems that doing cleansings first and then attacking

> the lyme is the way to go. I hear so many conflicting things that

> it makes my head spin. Keep us posted on your treatment if you can.

> Thanks.

>

> Best wishes,

> Suzy

[Guest guest]

Hi

Me too 20+ years, and Im the one who pointed out SALT a few months

ago. (DUH for me, Im in MENSA and never thought of it).

I notice when Ive been purposefully taking salt, I can walk farther

without the aching like Ive run the mile....same goes for back

muscles, all of the muscle pain is highly improved --

Now, re vit. C, I have always noticed that in the summer (when the

nicer fruits are available fresh) I feel way way better than during

the winter. Im not big on fruit to begin with -- tho I do take

cranberry juice on/off as I remember (bad memory!) but when I do

take it, and nix out the coffee, I feel tons better.

All lymies should stay away from coffee - besides dehydrating you,

it throws your minerals and vitamins out really fast, and you end up

depleted...coffee is a big no no...I used to live on coffee, now I

drink tea. Minerals are also VERY important - veggies are best,

things bitter like mustard greens, herbs, plus cheeses and dairy --

the lyme creates high acid in your blood, which is very bad for you -

minerals naturally neutralize these acids. Mineral pills are mainly

garbage and indigestible. So eat greens. And tons of cheese...think

a french diet and you'll be ok.

ALSO, do NOT eat hydrogenated fat - you'll need to really hunt for

foods without it -- all restaurants (good ones), all fast food uses

it, plus about 80% or more of your supermarket foods contain it.

This only makes lyme worse - and make sure to get plenty of good

oils instead, even if you have to bake with olive oil from scratch,

do it.

I am looking into the salt/vitamin C protocol.

>

> Well dear woman, you wrote my story out for everyone to read so I

wont

> repeat it. I have all of the major complications of Lyme or at

least 95% of

> them. Through a round about way I found a natural doctor who's

got a clinic

> 2.5 hours from me (close to Palm Springs, CA) and DH is trying to

get me in.

> Because I have had Lyme for so long my heart is bad from it and so

we have

> to address that before I can go check in for 10 days for a

cleanse. They go

> through the whole nine yards, candida, parasite, liver, all

internal organs

> and cellular cleansing. Then they attack the Lyme with the salt

and C.

> Wanna come in with me?

>

> Is there anyone here who has tried the salt and C? The doctors

wife has

> Lyme and has been doing it for like 2 months, they are also trying

something

> else on her, she's his guinea pig.

>

> I'm glad you all are here, it makes me feel better knowing I'm not

alone as

> I've been radically mood swinging for a few days here. Hey, is

there anyone

> here in So. Cal? I'm in Gorman currently, we are building and

moving to

> Lebec. Between LA and Bakersfield.

>

> Blessings,

> www.wendysmodestdress.com

[Guest guest]

Most Americans get enough salt from their diets. In fact, sodium

deficiency, 90+% of the time, is caused by diarrhea. Taking excess salt can

result in fluid retention and high blood pressure, and is very dangerous

unless vitamin c is taken with it. The vitamin c is necessary because salt

depletes C.

The salt/c protocol for lyme has no scientific backing or supportive studies

whatsoever. Moreover, the rationale behind it is stupid. The people who

developed it theorized that lyme spirochetes were often accompanied by

" little worms " in the body. They further theorized that since worms and

snails shrivel up when salt is placed on them, the " worms " that accompany

lyme (and there aren't any) might be killed if we ingest enough salt to

shrivel them. I'm sorry, but with due respect, the salt/c protocol is

ridiculous. I'm open-minded enough to change this position if a study is

shown to me, but the whole rationale/underpinning of the protocol is

uninformed (and that's putting it as politely as possible).

Greg

[ ] Re: newbie

Hi

Me too 20+ years, and Im the one who pointed out SALT a few months

ago. (DUH for me, Im in MENSA and never thought of it).

I notice when Ive been purposefully taking salt, I can walk farther

without the aching like Ive run the mile....same goes for back

muscles, all of the muscle pain is highly improved --

Now, re vit. C, I have always noticed that in the summer (when the

nicer fruits are available fresh) I feel way way better than during

the winter. Im not big on fruit to begin with -- tho I do take

cranberry juice on/off as I remember (bad memory!) but when I do

take it, and nix out the coffee, I feel tons better.

All lymies should stay away from coffee - besides dehydrating you,

it throws your minerals and vitamins out really fast, and you end up

depleted...coffee is a big no no...I used to live on coffee, now I

drink tea. Minerals are also VERY important - veggies are best,

things bitter like mustard greens, herbs, plus cheeses and dairy --

the lyme creates high acid in your blood, which is very bad for you -

minerals naturally neutralize these acids. Mineral pills are mainly

garbage and indigestible. So eat greens. And tons of cheese...think

a french diet and you'll be ok.

ALSO, do NOT eat hydrogenated fat - you'll need to really hunt for

foods without it -- all restaurants (good ones), all fast food uses

it, plus about 80% or more of your supermarket foods contain it.

This only makes lyme worse - and make sure to get plenty of good

oils instead, even if you have to bake with olive oil from scratch,

do it.

[Guest guest]

Greg,

I am currently looking into the salt/c protocol. It is on lymestrategies.com.,

if you want to check it out. If you have any documentation on how it doesn't

work, I would appreciate the info.

Thanks,

Suzy

RE: [ ] newbie

Most Americans get enough salt from their diets. In fact, sodium

deficiency, 90+% of the time, is caused by diarrhea. Taking excess salt can

result in fluid retention and high blood pressure, and is very dangerous

unless vitamin c is taken with it. The vitamin c is necessary because salt

depletes C.

The salt/c protocol for lyme has no scientific backing or supportive studies

whatsoever. Moreover, the rationale behind it is stupid. The people who

developed it theorized that lyme spirochetes were often accompanied by

" little worms " in the body. They further theorized that since worms and

snails shrivel up when salt is placed on them, the " worms " that accompany

lyme (and there aren't any) might be killed if we ingest enough salt to

shrivel them. I'm sorry, but with due respect, the salt/c protocol is

ridiculous. I'm open-minded enough to change this position if a study is

shown to me, but the whole rationale/underpinning of the protocol is

uninformed (and that's putting it as politely as possible).

Greg

[Guest guest]

You should be asking the opposite question. Where is the evidence that it

works? Where are the studies? The information I presented below (the

little worms shriveling on salt theory) is from a Web site that explains why

they developed the protocol. If you look on lymestrategies.com, you can

readily see that this non-physician expects you to pay 30 dollars for his

electronic booklet on how to take salt and vitamin c. Then, if you click on

the link which they say shows " researchers, " please note that there is NO

research. The " researchers " page is a page of anonymous testimonials,

saying the protocol worked for them. No names or addresses, not one single

iota of research. This is a scam.

We are very desperate to get well -- that does not mean we should get taken.

This guy is charging you for information on a non-prescription protocol.

Why are you so willing (and how are you able) to get sucked up in such a

scam. What if you have slightly high blood pressure and you die from the

excess sodium, or worse, get high blood pressure from taking it. The

American diet has too much salt, and every respectable doctor/scientist

recommends cutting back on dietary sodium because we already have too much.

The only exceptions are marathon-level athletes, who lose sodium through

extensive sweating and people who lose sodium from diarrhea.

If an anonymous non-physician on the Internet wants to charge you 30 bucks

for teaching you how to swallow salt and a vitamin, please think rationally,

and don't come to me asking what's wrong with that!! Seriously folks, this

is worse than laetrile for cancer (apricot seeds), because at least laetrile

wasn't harmful.

We should be taking antibiotics if we truly have lyme and trying to find the

right one that works for us. Excess vitamin c diminishes the effects of

antibiotics and should be avoided to the extent possible while on them. I

provided that information earlier along with a cite to Dr. Mercola's Web

site with the recommendation and cited research. There are no little worms

inside us to shrivel up with salt, and even if there were, taking salt

tablets at a dose that won't kill us immediately is not the equivalent of

pouring salt on a worm!

Greg

Re: [ ] newbie

Greg,

I am currently looking into the salt/c protocol. It is on

lymestrategies.com., if you want to check it out. If you have any

documentation on how it doesn't work, I would appreciate the info.

Thanks,

Suzy

RE: [ ] newbie

Most Americans get enough salt from their diets. In fact, sodium

deficiency, 90+% of the time, is caused by diarrhea. Taking excess salt

can

result in fluid retention and high blood pressure, and is very dangerous

unless vitamin c is taken with it. The vitamin c is necessary because

salt

depletes C.

The salt/c protocol for lyme has no scientific backing or supportive

studies

whatsoever. Moreover, the rationale behind it is stupid. The people who

developed it theorized that lyme spirochetes were often accompanied by

" little worms " in the body. They further theorized that since worms and

snails shrivel up when salt is placed on them, the " worms " that accompany

lyme (and there aren't any) might be killed if we ingest enough salt to

shrivel them. I'm sorry, but with due respect, the salt/c protocol is

ridiculous. I'm open-minded enough to change this position if a study is

shown to me, but the whole rationale/underpinning of the protocol is

uninformed (and that's putting it as politely as possible).

Greg

Questions and/or comments can be directed to the list owner at

-Owner

[Guest guest]

Suzy: Here's a link to the " anonymous " inventers of the salt/c protocol.

They won't even give their names and admit they are not doctors. If you

read their theory on why it works (which is further along down the page),

you will see that they are complete and total idiots. Only someone with

something less than a high school biology education would be even partially

persuaded by this logic.

http://www.lymephotos.com/faq/

There are two medical lyme camps -- this protocol is not recognized by

either, and if you do a search on medline and pub med, there is not a single

research study indicating its usefulness. The only claim that it is useful

is based on the above-referenced site, written by non-physicians who will

not even provide their names and give stupid theories as to why it works.

Greg

Re: [ ] newbie

Greg,

I am currently looking into the salt/c protocol. It is on

lymestrategies.com., if you want to check it out. If you have any

documentation on how it doesn't work, I would appreciate the info.

Thanks,

Suzy

-----

[Guest guest]

I have to agree with you Greg about the salt thing. The heart liver and

kidneys are already in termoil from the bacteria, adding salt, which makes

your body work harder to get rid of, can not be good. All that salt might

just kill us right along with the bacteria!!!

Please everyone, be careful! Oh, and , the doxy is very cheap and you

really should try it no matter what other things you try. If you are in a

early stage of the disease it might make a difference right away.

Davy

On 6/8/05, Greg Guillot <guillot@...> wrote:

>

> Most Americans get enough salt from their diets. In fact, sodium

> deficiency, 90+% of the time, is caused by diarrhea. Taking excess salt

> can

> result in fluid retention and high blood pressure, and is very dangerous

> unless vitamin c is taken with it. The vitamin c is necessary because salt

> depletes C.

>

> The salt/c protocol for lyme has no scientific backing or supportive

> studies

> whatsoever. Moreover, the rationale behind it is stupid. The people who

> developed it theorized that lyme spirochetes were often accompanied by

> " little worms " in the body. They further theorized that since worms and

> snails shrivel up when salt is placed on them, the " worms " that accompany

> lyme (and there aren't any) might be killed if we ingest enough salt to

> shrivel them. I'm sorry, but with due respect, the salt/c protocol is

> ridiculous. I'm open-minded enough to change this position if a study is

> shown to me, but the whole rationale/underpinning of the protocol is

> uninformed (and that's putting it as politely as possible).

>

> Greg

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Questions and/or comments can be directed to the list owner at

> -Owner

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think it is really ironic that you will say be very careful with salt but then

in the next sentence say...oh go ahead and try the doxy it is cheap....just made

me chuckle

Re: [ ] newbie

I have to agree with you Greg about the salt thing. The heart liver and

kidneys are already in termoil from the bacteria, adding salt, which makes

your body work harder to get rid of, can not be good. All that salt might

just kill us right along with the bacteria!!!

Please everyone, be careful! Oh, and , the doxy is very cheap and you

really should try it no matter what other things you try. If you are in a

early stage of the disease it might make a difference right away.

Davy

On 6/8/05, Greg Guillot <guillot@...> wrote:

>

> Most Americans get enough salt from their diets. In fact, sodium

> deficiency, 90+% of the time, is caused by diarrhea. Taking excess salt

> can

> result in fluid retention and high blood pressure, and is very dangerous

> unless vitamin c is taken with it. The vitamin c is necessary because salt

> depletes C.

>

> The salt/c protocol for lyme has no scientific backing or supportive

> studies

> whatsoever. Moreover, the rationale behind it is stupid. The people who

> developed it theorized that lyme spirochetes were often accompanied by

> " little worms " in the body. They further theorized that since worms and

> snails shrivel up when salt is placed on them, the " worms " that accompany

> lyme (and there aren't any) might be killed if we ingest enough salt to

> shrivel them. I'm sorry, but with due respect, the salt/c protocol is

> ridiculous. I'm open-minded enough to change this position if a study is

> shown to me, but the whole rationale/underpinning of the protocol is

> uninformed (and that's putting it as politely as possible).

>

> Greg

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Questions and/or comments can be directed to the list owner at

> -Owner

>

>

[Guest guest]

Why is this ironic? Doxy is safe. Not only does it not cause hypertension

and heart disease like salt, but there are numerous studies indicating that

it may reduce heart attack incidences, both because of its anti-inflammatory

effects, and because it's effective against mycoplasma, which some

researchers feel are implicated in heart disease? Doxy is a

well-established antibiotic used for many years with millions and millions

of people, and the only bad things that can be said about it (in those who

are not allergic) is that it causes gastrointestinal side effects, which can

be ameliorated if it is taken with food. Also it can cause problems with

the esophagus if it is not completely swallowed, because it is somewhat

caustic -- that's why you're not supposed to lie down right after taking it,

and must always take it with a full glass of water.

Doxy is a first-line therapy against lyme disease and a good and safe

overall antibiotic. I can't take it, unfortunately, because I appear to be

allergic to it, so I'm taking Ceftin. But I wish I could take Doxy because

it has advantages that go beyond its abilities against lyme. For example,

there are even studies indicating that long-term doxy therapy is effective

against adult-onset asthma.

Greg

Re: [ ] newbie

I think it is really ironic that you will say be very careful with salt but

then in the next sentence say...oh go ahead and try the doxy it is

cheap....just made me chuckle

[Guest guest]

Well the doxy is cheap and might do some good. To have an affordable

medication even available is a miracle! None of us can afford the price that

the body will pay for trying to deal with that amount of salt on top of what

we take in everyday already.

On 6/9/05, Crossley <ccrossley@...> wrote:

>

> I think it is really ironic that you will say be very careful with salt

> but then in the next sentence say...oh go ahead and try the doxy it is

> cheap....just made me chuckle

> Re: [ ] newbie

>

>

> I have to agree with you Greg about the salt thing. The heart liver and

> kidneys are already in termoil from the bacteria, adding salt, which makes

> your body work harder to get rid of, can not be good. All that salt might

> just kill us right along with the bacteria!!!

> Please everyone, be careful! Oh, and , the doxy is very cheap and you

> really should try it no matter what other things you try. If you are in a

> early stage of the disease it might make a difference right away.

>

>

> Davy

>

> On 6/8/05, Greg Guillot <guillot@...> wrote:

> >

> > Most Americans get enough salt from their diets. In fact, sodium

> > deficiency, 90+% of the time, is caused by diarrhea. Taking excess salt

> > can

> > result in fluid retention and high blood pressure, and is very dangerous

> > unless vitamin c is taken with it. The vitamin c is necessary because

> salt

> > depletes C.

> >

> > The salt/c protocol for lyme has no scientific backing or supportive

> > studies

> > whatsoever. Moreover, the rationale behind it is stupid. The people who

> > developed it theorized that lyme spirochetes were often accompanied by

> > " little worms " in the body. They further theorized that since worms and

> > snails shrivel up when salt is placed on them, the " worms " that

> accompany

> > lyme (and there aren't any) might be killed if we ingest enough salt to

> > shrivel them. I'm sorry, but with due respect, the salt/c protocol is

> > ridiculous. I'm open-minded enough to change this position if a study is

> > shown to me, but the whole rationale/underpinning of the protocol is

> > uninformed (and that's putting it as politely as possible).

> >

> > Greg

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Questions and/or comments can be directed to the list owner at

> > -Owner

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Greg,

I have been reading the posts on Lymestrategies for over a month now. All I

hear is how people are doing better not worse. Are they all fakes, part of a

scam, set up by this site? And if that is so, how do I know that you're not

just trying to steer me in the wrong direction? It's a tough call isn't it.

The salt on the protocol is not table salt, which is poison to our systems. It

is natural unrefined salt with natural minerals in it. When Fleming

told everyone to eat mold (penicillin), I am sure there were skeptics.

I have been on traditional meds for 3 months and I feel worse than ever before.

I felt better before I started the antibiotics. At least I had an immune

system.

I don't know about you, but I have lost so much more than $30. from this

disease. If this " how to " booklet gives me back my life, it is well worth it.

I still think it is worth looking into.

Suzy

[Guest guest]

Greg,

Thank you for your reply. I will take that into consideration. Also, I do have

a friend (who I see in person) who is doing the protocol under her LLMD.

Thanks for your input,

Suzy

RE: [ ] newbie

Suzy: Here's a link to the " anonymous " inventers of the salt/c protocol.

They won't even give their names and admit they are not doctors. If you

read their theory on why it works (which is further along down the page),

you will see that they are complete and total idiots. Only someone with

something less than a high school biology education would be even partially

persuaded by this logic.

http://www.lymephotos.com/faq/

There are two medical lyme camps -- this protocol is not recognized by

either, and if you do a search on medline and pub med, there is not a single

research study indicating its usefulness. The only claim that it is useful

is based on the above-referenced site, written by non-physicians who will

not even provide their names and give stupid theories as to why it works.

Greg

[Guest guest]

We live in an age of prescription meds. Sometimes I think we need to do what

our grandmothers did to stay healthy. Yes, meds are keeping people alive longer

these days, but I wonder if we really need all these meds for some of the easier

conditions such as acid reflux (tsp. apple cider vinegar followed by a glass of

water). Just watch TV for an evening and you will see many ads for

prescription drugs. Its a multimillion dollar business.

Suzy

[Guest guest]

The choice is yours. Cortislim just got sued for false advertising -- the

product does nothing. Testimonials by people listed such as " P " (one letter

initials only) on the lymestrategies site should not even be considered by

you (or anyone else). That's the sine qua non of snake oil salesmanship --

unverified testimonials. Where are the names of board certified MD's or

even the complete names of patients, or the name of one research studies.

Why are the anonymous testimonials listed under " researchers, " when there

are no researchers listed or shown in the testimonial pages. Yes, this is

exactly how frauds work, and they get away with them until they are

prosecuted by the FDA in response to a complaint. Yesterday, I filed such a

complaint on the FDA's Web site, so I'm now quite confident the site will be

investigated and shut down because it is making unqualified health claims in

violation of the law. That law is supposed to protect gullible people who

will read that stuff and believe it. Apparently, you are one of those

people, so the law is designed specifically to protect you.

Of course, the people in the testimonials placed there by the site owners

say they are doing better -- do you think the site would allow people to

post that they've gotten worse? Even on antibiotics (which work), people

feel worse (like you). If no one feels worse, there is further evidence

that it's a scam. Please beware, this is dangerous. Sodium is sodium to

the body and this different form does not eliminate the concerns. There is

no science behind this. It is snake oil salesmanship.

There's a sucker born every minute, and that's what these people thrive on.

It's been going on since the 1800's and before.

Greg

Re: [ ] newbie

Greg,

I have been reading the posts on Lymestrategies for over a month now. All I

hear is how people are doing better not worse. Are they all fakes, part of

a scam, set up by this site? And if that is so, how do I know that you're

not just trying to steer me in the wrong direction? It's a tough call isn't

it.

The salt on the protocol is not table salt, which is poison to our systems.

It is natural unrefined salt with natural minerals in it. When

Fleming told everyone to eat mold (penicillin), I am sure there were

skeptics.

I have been on traditional meds for 3 months and I feel worse than ever

before. I felt better before I started the antibiotics. At least I had an

immune system.

I don't know about you, but I have lost so much more than $30. from this

disease. If this " how to " booklet gives me back my life, it is well worth

it.

I still think it is worth looking into.

Suzy

Questions and/or comments can be directed to the list owner at

-Owner

[Guest guest]

Yes it is. But you are right - people are living lots longer today thanks

to medical science and we can cure many diseases which were not curable when

your grandmother was alive. I have severe acid reflux, and I can assure you

that vinegar (which is acidic) will not help me (I need to get rid of the

acid). Today we have endoscopies (our grandmothers did not) where GI

specialists can actually see that reflux causes Barrett's esophagitis, a

precursor to esophageal cancer, which is one of the most difficult cancers

to treat and cure. Personally, I'd rather have an endoscopy done and take

appropriate medications to prevent esophageal cancer than to swallow some

vinegar and pray for the best.

Our grandmothers also drank milk for ulcers, which we now know are caused by

helicobacter pylori -- an infection easily cured by antibiotics. Milk

didn't help, and in fact, it hurt. They also took colloidal silver, which

we now know is toxic. They also thought going out in the cold could make

you catch a cold. Very little of our grandmother's remedies had much going

for them when viewed through the eyes of what we know today.

Gersen's whole argument that coffee enemas might be useful was based on his

belief (which proved false) that coffee enemas raised glutathione levels,

which could help detoxify the liver. However, as I posted yesterday,

glutathione levels can be *definitely* raised by taking glutathione capsules

or NAC -- either of which is a heck of alot more convenient (and less

dangerous) than coffee enemas.

Man believed the earth was flat. We now know that wasn't so. Our

grandmother's believed in astrology -- we now know that the " scientific

underpinnings " for that were invalid. We need to look forward, rather than

backward.

We are also miles ahead of our grandparents in our knowledge of supplements

and nutrition and this is an area outside of prescription medicine that can

be very useful.

Greg

Re: [ ] newbie

We live in an age of prescription meds. Sometimes I think we need to do

what our grandmothers did to stay healthy. Yes, meds are keeping people

alive longer these days, but I wonder if we really need all these meds for

some of the easier conditions such as acid reflux (tsp. apple cider vinegar

followed by a glass of water). Just watch TV for an evening and you will

see many ads for prescription drugs. Its a multimillion dollar business.

Suzy

Questions and/or comments can be directed to the list owner at

-Owner

[Guest guest]

Greg,

I wish you all the best!

Suzy

RE: [ ] newbie

Yes it is. But you are right - people are living lots longer today thanks

to medical science and we can cure many diseases which were not curable when

your grandmother was alive. I have severe acid reflux, and I can assure you

that vinegar (which is acidic) will not help me (I need to get rid of the

acid). Today we have endoscopies (our grandmothers did not) where GI

specialists can actually see that reflux causes Barrett's esophagitis, a

precursor to esophageal cancer, which is one of the most difficult cancers

to treat and cure. Personally, I'd rather have an endoscopy done and take

appropriate medications to prevent esophageal cancer than to swallow some

vinegar and pray for the best.

Our grandmothers also drank milk for ulcers, which we now know are caused by

helicobacter pylori -- an infection easily cured by antibiotics. Milk

didn't help, and in fact, it hurt. They also took colloidal silver, which

we now know is toxic. They also thought going out in the cold could make

you catch a cold. Very little of our grandmother's remedies had much going

for them when viewed through the eyes of what we know today.

Gersen's whole argument that coffee enemas might be useful was based on his

belief (which proved false) that coffee enemas raised glutathione levels,

which could help detoxify the liver. However, as I posted yesterday,

glutathione levels can be *definitely* raised by taking glutathione capsules

or NAC -- either of which is a heck of alot more convenient (and less

dangerous) than coffee enemas.

Man believed the earth was flat. We now know that wasn't so. Our

grandmother's believed in astrology -- we now know that the " scientific

underpinnings " for that were invalid. We need to look forward, rather than

backward.

We are also miles ahead of our grandparents in our knowledge of supplements

and nutrition and this is an area outside of prescription medicine that can

be very useful.

Greg

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/10/2005 12:55:04 AM Eastern Standard Time,

guillot@... writes:

>

> Doxy is a first-line therapy against lyme disease and a good and safe

> overall antibiotic.

It is information like this that is dangerous as well as stating that

antibiotics are the ONLY way to get better! Sorry, wrong. I did abx for 5+ yrs.

Each indiviidual has 4 choices: to work with an LLMD and take abx, to do 'all

natural' (which is what I teach my clients), to do abx and do natural and #4

is to do nothing at all. Period. No one way is THE way. Each person should be

responsible and take it upon themselves to do the research, ask the questions

and then draw their own conclusions as to what THEY should do.

I have been on the LymeStrategies group from inception, have been on

e 9yrs. as well as many other groups. I have worked with over 15,000

lymies at

this point. Some of my clients are doing the Salt/Vit C protocol with

tremendous success, others have opted to do Samento, others colloidal silver,

HBOT,

etc.

It is not ethically right to come on these groups and bash ANY protocols.

What you could do is at least try a protocol and then give your opinion. This

disease is sooo devastating (I know, I was paralyzed from the neck down, had 6

children incapacitated and a husband that would stop breathing with severe

tachycardia. We are all doing great now due to all natural protocols.), that

negativity is NOT a good idea.

Try to be positive, ask questions and then draw your own conclusions. Also,

please know WHAT you are talking about before commenting as well.

Blessings-

sue massie, CNHP

732 933-4011

[Guest guest]

Hi Greg and gang,

My name is Rosemary Trudeau. I have Lyme 26 years misdiagnosed as

CFS 22 years. Four years of abx failed to help. Lyme has put me in

a wheelchair at times and on a walking frame. It has cost me my 1st

marriage, career, finances, friends, etc, etc. I have been in a

huge relapse and by January I honestly thought I was going to die,

with troubles breathing, swallowing, eating and speaking. My very

conservative doctor looked at the Lymephotos website and decided it

was worth a try as I was losing the battle.

With the very first dose of salt & C I knew it was helping me. I

have had many tremedous improvements which nothing else has

brought. I am being closely monitored by my doctor and all my blood

tests are normal so far. I believe this treatment has saved my life

and I am happy to talk to anyone about it. I also have a copy of a

recent " Townsend Letters For Doctors " which explains the medical

reason why the salt & C works.

Wishing you all health,

Rosemary.