Guest guest Posted April 28, 2002 Report Share Posted April 28, 2002 , Your " allergy " to all antibiotics may really be a herxheimer reaction after taking antibiotics. This happens because of how your body reacts when lyme spirochetes die off, rather than a true antibiotic reaction with your body. Im not a doctor, though, and only an excellent Lyme literate medical doctor could tell you which was which. Do you have a LLMD yet? You should if you do not now! Probably anyone on here would be happy to help you find one! If you were bitten at 15, and have had lyme all that time, this could explain your body's reaction to antibiotics. Just a thought. Hope you find a LLMD immediately! Best Wishes, email me privately if you wish! (Delaware) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2002 Report Share Posted April 28, 2002 OK here is what I think happens with people that use transfer factors. Their body does some repair kills some Chetes, however, not all the chetes are killed and allot shed their DNA to survive in this newly hostile body. They will 'reawaken' at a later date and the person will have thought they were 'cured' of Lyme and will then think they have something else. I don't trust it. I am not a big fan of abx, but I trust that they can do more that TF can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2002 Report Share Posted April 29, 2002 I don't get the point of this conversation.... << Antibiotics do help but, it is not curing chronic lyme. >> This IS true, nobody has stated that " abx cure lyme " . <<Chronic Lyme is different from lyme. Lyme if caught early is easily treatable. No doctor disputes that, so why the difference?>> The 'real life' answer to this one is....we ALL would have loved to have caught this early...the truth?? MOST people don't!!! Less than 20% see the tick and less than 30% get the bull's eye rash. So how can people possibly 'get it early'??? <<Don't worry they will still be here. They aren't off playing in the sunshine somewhere>> I am still here, after being tested/treated for lyme, babesia, ehrlichia, bartonella, mycoplasma, HHV-6, Epstein Barr ...and those are the ones we know about....Guess what? they just discovered 2 NEW strains in FLA!!!!! There were already over 300, WE DON " T KNOW THE ANSWERS TO LYME, DON " T KNOW HOW TO CORRECTLY TEST, TREAT OR CURE IT~~ that is it. High doses of IV, orals, multi-abx, whatever is NOT going to cure lyme. Period. The point is that one can increase their health to be optimum as can be by taking abx, AND supplements AND exercise, rest, etc. You first have to start with a positive attitude. ANY chronic disease has to start with your Spirituality. Then it goes to your mental, then your physical. I was paralyzed from the neck down due to lyme, had EVERY symptom of hell from this disease and was even suicidal. My husband was deathly ill in 1997/98 and now he is really bad again due to NOT treating himself. 5 of my 6 children are all chronic with lyme. We are all doing great (except hubby). I am 98% better today (I don't believe that anyone, lyme or not, is 100%!!) and I thank God everyday for the blessings that I have been given and continue to receive. << " Do you know what the most effective drug for MS is now? Copaxone, people return to normal lives.>> I work with MS people all the time...show me ONE that has 'returned to normal'. Then also let's talk about WHY the medical community is now coming out with antibiotics for MS, ALS (Lou Gehrig's)--just announced that minocycline is being used....>PLEASE!!!!! these cases are turning out to be lyme disease MISDIAGNOSED. We have to continue with education, supporting and loving one another, giving and receiving positive energy and keeping the hope within our hearts. Lyme information is growing by leaps and bounds and times are FINALLY changing and growing. Keep with the positive. sue in nj sue massie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2002 Report Share Posted April 29, 2002 What you say might have been true except for the fact that too many people have been treated with HIGH DOSAGE IV ABx for LONG periods. Some went with 3-4 grams of DOXY. That is also the reason they use IV antibiotics because they can't get the desired blood levels with orals. Everybody keeps saying " Well it helps. We just need higher dosages for longer times " How much will be enough for how long? Whatever you think that answer is, someone has already been treated at. Antibiotics do help but, it is not curing chronic lyme. Chronic Lyme is different from lyme. Lyme if caught early is easily treatable. No doctor disputes that, so why the difference? As soon as you stop whatever dose it comes back. Ask that question on here. How much do you think you need for how long and see if someone has already done it. Don't worry they will still be here. They aren't off playing in the sunshine somewhere. Lets take a poll. Who has been on the highest dose of IV doxy for the longest period? This is a valid question. Do you know what the most effective drug for MS is now? Copaxone, people return to normal lives. It is targeted at and works by shutting down the Th1 autoimmune response. The most effective drug now for Rheumatoid arthitis that is available now is Enbrel, which targets Th1 autoimmune response. I didn't know it but antidepressants work by suppressin our immune system. Nobody can argue that there is Borrelia, I had the rash. But being exposed to any foriegn matter for multiple years has to wreck havoc with our immune system. Depression, brain fog, joint pain and chronic fatigue are ALL caused by an overactive Th1 response. All of the data is out there now. Don't rely on these damn doctor's web pages, go to medline and search the research studies. > red57 > > I can't help but be of the opinion that those who are > treated for Lyme Disease with antibiotics and not > cured are not taking a high enough dose. Ubiquidously > (sp?!), doctors prescribe long term doses at very low > levels for which our natural bodies easily develop a > tolerance to (process and digest the drug faster than > it can enter blood-stream). Anyone on antibiotics who > experiences at least temporary relief from symptoms > due to the antibiotics should have their doctor test > their blood levels of the therapy drug each week of > therapy as the bodies resistence increases weekly. > > For example, my body has extensive experience with > Doxy and Zith (20% of time in last five years) and > this last week I took 2,200mgs of oral Doxy per day > and my blood level of Doxy was BARELY theraputic (15.2 > ug/ml - should be more like 20). I also took 1000mgs > of oral Zith per day and my blood level was again > barely theraputic. Where several years ago, only > 500mgs of Zith achieved the same levels. If I can get > my blood level up to accepted theraputic levels, the > antibiotics cure my Lyme Disease. To treat a person > for even a month (much less years) at a fixed dose > level and not check blood levels throughout is not > accomplishing much (and a big statement of a > physicians lack of understanding of the natural bodies > adjustments)....which I think is your observation for > which you gave several good examples. > > -Jeff L. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2002 Report Share Posted April 29, 2002 red57, Mmmm...you provide even more convincing arguements. I can only draw from my own experiences to draw my own conclusions. It just goes to show us; there is much to be researched in LD. People wonder, even if there was money, what on earth is there to study about an uncurrable disease anyway? Many many many issues could be explored if there was funding... and many many answers would help many many people. What a sad state of affairs that our rich and powerful society spends little money researching these types of health issues. Look how many lives AIDS had to claim before money wasn't blocked for research there. I feel like the prevelance of LD is growing fast and especially lately. There are folks in my neigborhood who have lived here 20 years with no problems and last year both of them (a couple) got LD the same season. Also, there is a growing cohort of folk who believe that LD is contagious (sexually or from some other form of close contact) at the time of initial fever (if severe). So, be careful with those in initial fever stage. If you know any other couples or family members who came down with LD 1 - 2 weeks right after another family member...you'll know what I mean. Anyone out there who can rise the the prior challenge? How long and how high did you go? I did oral Doxy for three weeks starting out at 1,600mgs per day and ending in a sick miserable pool of puke on the last day at 2,300mgs per day. I was so physically weak (36yrs old) I could not cook any food to feed myself. -Jeff L. --- jessered57 <jessered57@...> wrote: > What you say might have been true except for the > fact that too many > people have been treated with HIGH DOSAGE IV ABx for > LONG periods. > Some went with 3-4 grams of DOXY. That is also the > reason they use IV > antibiotics because they can't get the desired blood > levels with > orals. Everybody keeps saying " Well it helps. We > just need higher > dosages for longer times " How much will be enough > for how long? > Whatever you think that answer is, someone has > already been treated > at. Antibiotics do help but, it is not curing > chronic lyme. Chronic > Lyme is different from lyme. Lyme if caught early is > easily > treatable. No doctor disputes that, so why the > difference? As soon as > you stop whatever dose it comes back. Ask that > question on here. How > much do you think you need for how long and see if > someone has > already done it. Don't worry they will still be > here. They aren't off > playing in the sunshine somewhere. Lets take a poll. > Who has been on > the highest dose of IV doxy for the longest period? > This is a valid > question. Do you know what the most effective drug > for MS is now? > Copaxone, people return to normal lives. It is > targeted at and works > by shutting down the Th1 autoimmune response. The > most effective drug > now for Rheumatoid arthitis that is available now is > Enbrel, which > targets Th1 autoimmune response. I didn't know it > but antidepressants > work by suppressin our immune system. Nobody can > argue that there is > Borrelia, I had the rash. But being exposed to any > foriegn matter for > multiple years has to wreck havoc with our immune > system. Depression, > brain fog, joint pain and chronic fatigue are ALL > caused by an > overactive Th1 response. All of the data is out > there now. Don't rely > on these damn doctor's web pages, go to medline and > search the > research studies. > > red57 > > > > I can't help but be of the opinion that those who > are > > treated for Lyme Disease with antibiotics and not > > cured are not taking a high enough dose. > Ubiquidously > > (sp?!), doctors prescribe long term doses at very > low > > levels for which our natural bodies easily develop > a > > tolerance to (process and digest the drug faster > than > > it can enter blood-stream). Anyone on antibiotics > who > > experiences at least temporary relief from > symptoms > > due to the antibiotics should have their doctor > test > > their blood levels of the therapy drug each week > of > > therapy as the bodies resistence increases weekly. > > > > For example, my body has extensive experience with > > Doxy and Zith (20% of time in last five years) and > > this last week I took 2,200mgs of oral Doxy per > day > > and my blood level of Doxy was BARELY theraputic > (15.2 > > ug/ml - should be more like 20). I also took > 1000mgs > > of oral Zith per day and my blood level was again > > barely theraputic. Where several years ago, only > > 500mgs of Zith achieved the same levels. If I can > get > > my blood level up to accepted theraputic levels, > the > > antibiotics cure my Lyme Disease. To treat a > person > > for even a month (much less years) at a fixed dose > > level and not check blood levels throughout is not > > accomplishing much (and a big statement of a > > physicians lack of understanding of the natural > bodies > > adjustments)....which I think is your observation > for > > which you gave several good examples. > > > > -Jeff L. > > > > > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2002 Report Share Posted April 29, 2002 I do apologise for my response coming out sharp edged. Listen people have to have the ABs to control it UNTIL we can figure it out. I am shocked though at the amount of research that has come out in the last 4 years that doctors aren't aware of. Steere (the devil) is half way right thou. They have seen people with chronic lyme have Th1 cytokines in thier blood stream which indicates an autoimmune condition. The more Th1 cytokines the worse the symptoms. I still cuss him thou because instead of jumping up and trying to repair this, he just hollers that he is right and doesn't do us any good. Too many LLMD's don't know about this other stuff. I do respect Barruscano because he has been investigating EVERYTHING, including HHV6 and even some of the AIDS treatment which made it much worse. In looking at this thou it doesn't suprise me thou because AIDS treament are aimed at pushing the immune response to a Th1 reaction which is the opposite of what should work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2002 Report Share Posted April 29, 2002 red57 >>>>>>>Don't worry they will still be here. They aren't off playing in the sunshine somewhere. Lets take a poll. >>>>> I don't have lyme disease anymore..........in remission. I am having some other health problems, seem unrelated to lyme, but I am off playing in the sunshine. I spent five years battling with lyme....a lot less than many others on this group. After many different orals, bicillin injections, and then finally 8 months IV Rocephin, I went into remission. I believe I was lucky, I went on a lot of different abx, and killed off the many strains that may have been in my body........I also did a lot of Alternative Medical treatments. I stay with the group.......to give hope to others.....and maybe one day we will all be out playing in the sunshine! You haven't done enough research!!!! You need to do more. Connie Krawz Leave no stone unturned.......and ask questions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2002 Report Share Posted April 29, 2002 Now I am completely lost you just posted a message that says you are having serious health problems and then in your reply to me you said you are off playing in the sunshine. You don't think it is related to lyme and yet it is pulmonary and eye. Considering the state of testing why do you think this problems aren't either lyme or autoimmune responses? From: " conniek " <conniek@e...> Date: Mon Apr 29, 2002 8:58 pm Subject: going no mail for a little while ADVERTISEMENT Hi Everyone, I am having some serious health problems, (pulmonary and eye) unrelated to Lyme Disease. I need to go no email for awhile. I will still do the chats, but may have to change the nights from time to time. Too many apts, that interfere. I will post the chat night and times weekly, if that is ok with you Robynn. This week I will be in the chat room on Thursday (May 2nd)night from 7:00pm until about 9:00pm.............that should cater to the East and West Coast lymies. Thanks, Connie Krawz > red57 > >>>>>>>Don't worry they will still be here. They aren't off > playing in the sunshine somewhere. Lets take a poll. >>>>> > > I don't have lyme disease anymore..........in remission. I am having some > other health problems, seem unrelated to lyme, but I am off playing in the > sunshine. > > I spent five years battling with lyme....a lot less than many others on this > group. After many different orals, bicillin injections, and then finally 8 > months IV Rocephin, I went into remission. I believe I was lucky, I went > on a lot of different abx, and killed off the many strains that may have > been in my body........I also did a lot of Alternative Medical treatments. > I stay with the group.......to give hope to others.....and maybe one day we > will all be out playing in the sunshine! > > You haven't done enough research!!!! You need to do more. > > Connie Krawz > > Leave no stone unturned.......and ask questions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 30, 2002 Report Share Posted April 30, 2002 In a message dated 4/29/02 9:44:24 PM, rod@... writes: << OK here is what I think happens with people that use transfer factors. Their body does some repair kills some Chetes, however, not all the chetes are killed and allot shed their DNA to survive in this newly hostile body. They will 'reawaken' at a later date and the person will have thought they were 'cured' of Lyme and will then think they have something else. I don't trust it. I am not a big fan of abx, but I trust that they can do more that TF can. >> I think there is confusion here..... Transfer factor is NOT to replace abx. It does NOT kill chetes....TF is for the immune system. The one I take contains Colostrum, Cordyvant, Natural Killer Cells, shiitake/maitake mushrooms, Thymuplex, all kinds of great immune building stuff in one pill. I take the 4-Life cuz after much research I feel it is one of the best. I DO feel the difference and so do all the people I recommend it to that are taking it. You have to build a good foundation in order to build a strong body. TF+ is for our foundation. The abx then go after the lyme. They are completely separate. sue in nj sue massie www.4-Life.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2002 Report Share Posted May 31, 2002 Hi, Have any of you taken this transfer Factor for Lyme. Am a undiagnosed Lymie and am taking it. The Immunefactor 2 is the one taken for Lyme and other things. If you want to read about go the Chisolmbio.com Take Care, H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2002 Report Share Posted June 6, 2002 In a message dated 5/31/02 12:34:48 PM, helenw8262@... writes: << Hi, Have any of you taken this transfer Factor for Lyme. Am a undiagnosed Lymie and am taking it. The Immunefactor 2 is the one taken for Lyme and other things. If you want to read about go the Chisolmbio.com Take Care, H. >> - Chisolm Labs is good Transfer Factor but the problem is....it is expensive!!! It is $130/bottle. TF+ from 4-Life Co. is $54 wholesale (which is what I sell it for). Just FYI. sue in nj sue massie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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