Re: Sexual transmission question

[Guest guest]

Can Lyme be sexually transmitted? Personally, I 'feel' that it can be.

One of the best Lyme Drs testified at the Texas Senate hearings, thinks it

can be and that this really needs to be studied. The problem is how do you

prove it? Maybe the partner was infected by a tick bite but never saw the

tick? There are so many variables. Lyme Spirochetes have been found in blood

, urine, vaginal fluid, sperm and breast milk. So who's to say? Some Drs

think that if one person has Lyme and their partner tests positive but has

no symptoms that possibly the reason for the no symptoms is they got a

mutated variety. I do not think that the transmission probability is high ,

but why risk it? We always use protection and avoid practices that put each

other at risk.

The only way to truly study this is for someone to get a grant to do

it. But with all the problems with Lyme, trying to figure if its sexually

transmitted is the least of their problems. Hope this helps,

[Guest guest]

> Q. Could you get Lyme disease from another person?

> A. No, Lyme disease bacteria are NOT transmitted from person-to-person.

For

> example, you cannot get infected from touching or kissing a person who has

> Lyme disease, or from a health care worker who has treated someone with

the

> disease, or by sexual contact.

Y'all please recall the CDC's stance on Lyme. If we believed everything that

they say, most of us don't have Lyme anymore , we have Post Lyme Syndrome.

Just as we cannot state with conviction that Lyme can be transmitted

sexually, neither can they. No study has EVER been done. Ever. Until one

is done by a NON-Steerite I will not believe 100% either way.

[Guest guest]

> > There you are...one of the best LLMDs in Texas thinks

> > it is a problem to be studied and testified in court

> > under oath....a top professional in the field!...Not

> > just little old me who got it that way...

LOL Actually, one of the top LLMDs in the North East is the one that

stated that, and we ALL know his name. *-)

[Guest guest]

My husband of 32 years and I have never used any form of birth control at

all since I was infected. He is fine. No signs, no symptoms, not sick in

any way, shape or form.

Has he been tested for Lyme anyhow? mine was, and he has NEVER had the

first symptom , he came back positive on 3 different tests. He is still ok

TG. I feel that very possibly he did get a mutated form of Lyme from me and

that is why he has no symptoms and still tested positive. He isn't the only

one either, several ladies have had the same thing happen. Keep an eye on

him anyhow. Take care,

[Guest guest]

> You know the easiest thing since we aren't for sure that it can be

> passed by sex is this. None of us ever have sex again. I will go

> first.

>

> I do hereby swear in poor mind and health that I will never ever have

> sex again.

LOLOL I cannot go that far, think I would for sure go insane *-) Soooooo

even though I used to be on the pill ( cannot because of clotting factor) we

use barrier.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/30/2002 12:43:47 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jeffl22@... writes:

> Jeannie ,

>

> Oh, yes you can get it from either partner. I got it

> from a woman myself! So, there you go! I also know

> of another couple where the woman contracted to the

> man as well

I think this statement is completely false and if it's not I'd like to see

PROOF of this. I've been sick since 1990 and I have never ever , anywhere,

read or seen proof that Lyme disease is sexually transmittable. Neither my

husband nor my ex husband have Lyme Disease and they were both with me since

I've been very ill...I think that fact that you " claim " this is definately

possible and also " truth " is not only irresponsible but also makes you very

dangerous to anyone who isn't Lyme educated...Provide the proof before you

lay down what you " say " is fact.

Robyn In NJ

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/30/2002 1:38:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,

winddancer44@... writes:

> From the horses mouth (CDC) question #2

>

> http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvbid/lyme/qa.htm

>

> Liz

>

This is an excerpt from the CDC page that Liz sent out.

Q. Could you get Lyme disease from another person?

A. No, Lyme disease bacteria are NOT transmitted from person-to-person. For

example, you cannot get infected from touching or kissing a person who has

Lyme disease, or from a health care worker who has treated someone with the

disease, or by sexual contact.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/30/02 12:39:26 PM, copeland.cole@... writes:

<< If it can be transmitted sexually, I have never read a

study about it. I've seen *anecdotal* stories on here,

which means just speculation. >>

See ALTERNATIVE MAGAZINE, May 2001 issue #41. you can call them and order it

back order..... 800-333-HEAL

sue in nj

sue massie

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 30.04.02 13:28:39 US Eastern Standard Time, rod@...

writes:

> Y'all please recall the CDC's stance on Lyme. If we believed everything that

> they say, most of us don't have Lyme anymore , we have Post Lyme Syndrome.

> Just as we cannot state with conviction that Lyme can be transmitted

> sexually, neither can they. No study has EVER been done. Ever. Until one

> is done by a NON-Steerite I will not believe 100% either way.

That's exactly what I was thinking.. Actually, according to CDC some of us

probably don't even have PLS. Whatever. I would just, as they say, " proceed

with due caution " .

Ilse in Canada

----------------------

" Das Ziel des Lebens ist das Gute "

-Tolstoi

[Guest guest]

As for myself with this disease I have enough to worry about. I hate to see

rumors of it being fact that it is sexually transmittable flying around.

Those of us who have been through hell and back and continue to battle eevry

day just to get out of bed don't need something more to worry about or panic

about....I just wish some people would put proof behind what they claim to be

fact before they go spouting off..

Who knows if it's sexually transmittable. The medical community says no

but then again we all know what the medical says about Lyme and we have proof

they are wrong there but thats not to say they are wrong about thisas well.

We just dont know. Which is why if your just conveying a theory or your own

belief then it should be stated so.This is not what the poster Jeff did..

That was my whole problem with his post.

Robyn In NJ

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/30/2002 2:47:26 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jeffl22@... writes:

> Thanks R & H!!!

>

> There you are...one of the best LLMDs in Texas thinks

> it is a problem to be studied and testified in court

> under oath....a top professional in the field!...Not

> just little old me who got it that way...

>

> -Jeff L.

>

Until you have proof in black and white that you infact got it this way you

shouldn't claim to have...

[Guest guest]

I'm no expert, but I don't think so. Of course I

don't know the details, but Lyme is in the blood, and

although that is so, I don't think it can be

transmitted that way. Perhaps thru a transfusion

though.

Liz

--- Jeannie W <jeanniew58@...> wrote:

> Hi everyone,

>

> I keep forgetting to ask my LLMD (I could call,

> duh!)

> so I thought I would ask you all). I have heard

> that

> Lyme's can be trasmitted sexually from the male to

> female, but can it be transmitted sexually from the

> female to the male? Thanks!

>

> Jeannie

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 30.04.02 14:25:48 US Eastern Standard Time,

jeffl22@... writes:

> I apolgize to you if I slammed your opinion...I'll be

> better in the future. Wow, this IS an interesting

> issue though, isn't it?

>

> -Jeff L.

>

Yes, and it makes my inbox look even more interesting, to see 20-some posts

right in a row with that subject header.

Ilse in Canada.

----------------------

" Das Ziel des Lebens ist das Gute "

-Tolstoi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/30/2002 3:29:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,

winddancer44@... writes:

> It is OK. No harm done. It is something I've never thought of....and

> as MEAN as it sounds, I was hoping my ex husband got it from me...he

> is such a creepoid...but that's another issue (Oh I need help. LOL)

>

> Liz

>

>

Eeeeeeeeeeeeek!!! Liz........LOL

Robyn in NJ

[Guest guest]

Jeannie ,

Oh, yes you can get it from either partner. I got it

from a woman myself! So, there you go! I also know

of another couple where the woman contracted to the

man as well. They live down the street from me (late

50s early 60 yrs old). Blood is the easiest way to

get LD...not the only. I've gotten it another time by

squishing a deer tick in my fingers and getting the

slime all over my fingers (we know one of the special

features of LD bacteria as that they burrow

effeciently through flesh)...didn't even think about

it at the time...Liz mentions that LD is in the blood

which is true. But we ALL also know (scientifically)

it is in the flesh, the nerves, the joints, the spine,

and the brain...unlike a typical bacteria. If anyone

wants to argue, I'll send you a deer tick or three

(should only take about three to be sure one is

infected) and I dare you to cut it in half and smear

whatever is inside on your skin...I double dare ya.

Are there any other personal stories out there that

don't include blood contact? Anyone?

-Jeff L.

--- Liz Kelso <winddancer44@...> wrote:

> I'm no expert, but I don't think so. Of course I

> don't know the details, but Lyme is in the blood,

> and

> although that is so, I don't think it can be

> transmitted that way. Perhaps thru a transfusion

> though.

>

> Liz

>

> --- Jeannie W <jeanniew58@...> wrote:

> > Hi everyone,

> >

> > I keep forgetting to ask my LLMD (I could call,

> > duh!)

> > so I thought I would ask you all). I have heard

> > that

> > Lyme's can be trasmitted sexually from the male to

> > female, but can it be transmitted sexually from

> the

> > female to the male? Thanks!

> >

> > Jeannie

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

[Guest guest]

If it can be transmitted sexually, I have never read a

study about it. I've seen *anecdotal* stories on here,

which means just speculation.

If someone can point out any study that confirms Lyme

Disease can be transmitted sexually, please post it. If

not, then it's just another guess.

> Hi everyone,

>

> I keep forgetting to ask my LLMD (I could call, duh!)

> so I thought I would ask you all). I have heard that

> Lyme's can be trasmitted sexually from the male to

> female, but can it be transmitted sexually from the

> female to the male? Thanks!

>

> Jeannie

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

WOW! Really. What do you know! Thanks for the

interesting bit.

LIZ

--- " Jeff L. " <jeffl22@...> wrote:

> Jeannie ,

>

> Oh, yes you can get it from either partner. I got

> it

> from a woman myself! So, there you go! I also know

> of another couple where the woman contracted to the

> man as well. They live down the street from me

> (late

> 50s early 60 yrs old). Blood is the easiest way to

> get LD...not the only. I've gotten it another time

> by

> squishing a deer tick in my fingers and getting the

> slime all over my fingers (we know one of the

> special

> features of LD bacteria as that they burrow

> effeciently through flesh)...didn't even think about

> it at the time...Liz mentions that LD is in the

> blood

> which is true. But we ALL also know

> (scientifically)

> it is in the flesh, the nerves, the joints, the

> spine,

> and the brain...unlike a typical bacteria. If

> anyone

> wants to argue, I'll send you a deer tick or three

> (should only take about three to be sure one is

> infected) and I dare you to cut it in half and smear

> whatever is inside on your skin...I double dare ya.

>

> Are there any other personal stories out there that

> don't include blood contact? Anyone?

>

> -Jeff L.

>

> --- Liz Kelso <winddancer44@...> wrote:

> > I'm no expert, but I don't think so. Of course I

> > don't know the details, but Lyme is in the blood,

> > and

> > although that is so, I don't think it can be

> > transmitted that way. Perhaps thru a transfusion

> > though.

> >

> > Liz

> >

> > --- Jeannie W <jeanniew58@...> wrote:

> > > Hi everyone,

> > >

> > > I keep forgetting to ask my LLMD (I could call,

> > > duh!)

> > > so I thought I would ask you all). I have heard

> > > that

> > > Lyme's can be trasmitted sexually from the male

> to

> > > female, but can it be transmitted sexually from

> > the

> > > female to the male? Thanks!

> > >

> > > Jeannie

> > >

> > >

> __________________________________________________

> > >

[Guest guest]

I think it is irresponsible of you to write with

certainty that Lyme Disease is sexually transmitted

without anything to back it up. What makes you think

you got it sexually? You know, people get it all the

time without a rash and never know they were even bit.

I was having sex when I got it....so I guess I got it

sexually, right? Faulty logic.

Depending on where you live, perhaps one out of ten

people have Lyme Disease, and the odds of having sex

with someone who has it may be highly likely in that

geographical area of the country. It still doesn't mean

they passed it on to you.

Lyme Disease is scary enough without hyperbole like

this. I am still waiting for *any* study to say it is

sexually transmitted. Until then, it's just anecdotal

and just guessing.

> Jeannie ,

>

> Oh, yes you can get it from either partner. I got it

> from a woman myself! So, there you go! I also know

> of another couple where the woman contracted to the

> man as well. They live down the street from me (late

> 50s early 60 yrs old). Blood is the easiest way to

> get LD...not the only. I've gotten it another time by

> squishing a deer tick in my fingers and getting the

> slime all over my fingers (we know one of the special

> features of LD bacteria as that they burrow

> effeciently through flesh)...didn't even think about

> it at the time...Liz mentions that LD is in the blood

> which is true. But we ALL also know (scientifically)

> it is in the flesh, the nerves, the joints, the spine,

> and the brain...unlike a typical bacteria. If anyone

> wants to argue, I'll send you a deer tick or three

> (should only take about three to be sure one is

> infected) and I dare you to cut it in half and smear

> whatever is inside on your skin...I double dare ya.

[Guest guest]

From the horses mouth (CDC) question #2

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvbid/lyme/qa.htm

Liz

--- PrincessKiara70@... wrote:

> In a message dated 4/30/2002 12:43:47 PM Eastern

> Standard Time,

> jeffl22@... writes:

>

>

> > Jeannie ,

> >

> > Oh, yes you can get it from either partner. I got

> it

> > from a woman myself! So, there you go! I also

> know

> > of another couple where the woman contracted to

> the

> > man as well

>

> I think this statement is completely false and if

> it's not I'd like to see

> PROOF of this. I've been sick since 1990 and I have

> never ever , anywhere,

> read or seen proof that Lyme disease is sexually

> transmittable. Neither my

> husband nor my ex husband have Lyme Disease and they

> were both with me since

> I've been very ill...I think that fact that you

> " claim " this is definately

> possible and also " truth " is not only irresponsible

> but also makes you very

> dangerous to anyone who isn't Lyme

> educated...Provide the proof before you

> lay down what you " say " is fact.

> Robyn In NJ

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

=====

**Liz Kelso**

" A nice pickle we have landed ourselves in, Mr. Frodo! " -- Samwise Gamgee.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I meant #3, but you guys can figure that out!

From the horses mouth (CDC) question #2

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvbid/lyme/qa.htm

Liz

--- PrincessKiara70@... wrote:

> In a message dated 4/30/2002 12:43:47 PM Eastern

> Standard Time,

> jeffl22@... writes:

>

>

> > Jeannie ,

> >

> > Oh, yes you can get it from either partner. I got

> it

> > from a woman myself! So, there you go! I also

> know

> > of another couple where the woman contracted to

> the

> > man as well

>

> I think this statement is completely false and if

> it's not I'd like to see

> PROOF of this. I've been sick since 1990 and I have

> never ever , anywhere,

> read or seen proof that Lyme disease is sexually

> transmittable. Neither my

> husband nor my ex husband have Lyme Disease and they

> were both with me since

> I've been very ill...I think that fact that you

> " claim " this is definately

> possible and also " truth " is not only irresponsible

> but also makes you very

> dangerous to anyone who isn't Lyme

> educated...Provide the proof before you

> lay down what you " say " is fact.

> Robyn In NJ

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

=====

**Liz Kelso**

" A nice pickle we have landed ourselves in, Mr. Frodo! " -- Samwise Gamgee.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Do you still have this article? Is it possible if you could maybe

scan that part so we can read it?

Liz

>

> In a message dated 4/30/02 12:39:26 PM, copeland.cole@a... writes:

>

> << If it can be transmitted sexually, I have never read a

> study about it. I've seen *anecdotal* stories on here,

> which means just speculation. >>

>

> See ALTERNATIVE MAGAZINE, May 2001 issue #41. you can call them and

order it

> back order..... 800-333-HEAL

> sue in nj

> sue massie

[Guest guest]

All,

Look, I'm not trying to freak anyone out. Just trying

to help. I'll soften my statement for those who don't

like declaritive sentences. It is my opinion that I

have gotten LD from my partner....is that better?

However, it has been my experience that LD is

transmittable at the time of initial infection during

the first high fever. Once the body has adjusted to

it (fever breaks)...I don't think so. Even my LLMD

said he personally thinks it is sexually transmittable

based on the numerous cases he sees year in and year

out (I actually don't think that " sex " is

necessary...but it does bring about the conditions

that are). If you personally don't want to believe

me...go ahead...you think I care?

And, going to the CDC for answers about LD is not

a reasonable idea. The CDC is very much a part of the

larger Lymie's problem of not being able to get care.

They are a large slow government organization with

very conservative guidelines which ARE the reason many

of us could not get the special therapies we need

(MANY MDs follow the CDC guildlines and do not

deviate!...and if you ask them, they will tell you

so.) Read what it says a diagnosis of LD is (which

they just revamped this year because they got in so

much trouble) and the recommended therapies and you

will not like their opinion about anything to do with

LD.

To then go to the CDC site for information as cutting

edge as that discussed here on this group is

silly and undermines all the discussions and the

opinions of all those who are working to push forward.

Many of the opinions and experience collectively

pooled together in this group makes up some of the

world's most informed and knowledgable on the subject.

That's why I am here to discuss the very latest and

the very greatest with those who know personally (and

the group has been great for that I think).

No opinion of anyone in this group is

completely wrong or right. Obviously, there are no

studies done on this issue as it is brand

new...starting right here...there are no other sources

or " studies " for many of the issues discussed here.

To suddenly demand that you'll believe something once

a study says so is to remove a large part of the

purpose of the group. Clearly, we do have

ANOTHER example of a study which should be

done!..Where is the money!!!?

Anymore hold outs can send me your mailing address and

I'll put a few ticks in a baggie for you to cut open

and smear on your skin (of course we'll have to wait

for the real tick season to start up).

Like I said...I'm just trying to help those who have

not suffered as we have already...not trying to argue

with anyone.

My advice to those not infected yet?

1) Don't be inimate with a person during the initial

high fever and flu of suspected LD (like if you found

a tick bite a few days ago and now there is a fever).

2) Don't slice open any deer ticks to kill them.

Cheers,

-Jeff L.

--- Liz Kelso <winddancer44@...> wrote:

> I meant #3, but you guys can figure that out!

>

> From the horses mouth (CDC) question #2

>

> http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvbid/lyme/qa.htm

>

> Liz

>

> --- PrincessKiara70@... wrote:

> > In a message dated 4/30/2002 12:43:47 PM Eastern

> > Standard Time,

> > jeffl22@... writes:

> >

> >

> > > Jeannie ,

> > >

> > > Oh, yes you can get it from either partner. I

> got

> > it

> > > from a woman myself! So, there you go! I also

> > know

> > > of another couple where the woman contracted to

> > the

> > > man as well

> >

> > I think this statement is completely false and if

> > it's not I'd like to see

> > PROOF of this. I've been sick since 1990 and I

> have

> > never ever , anywhere,

> > read or seen proof that Lyme disease is sexually

> > transmittable. Neither my

> > husband nor my ex husband have Lyme Disease and

> they

> > were both with me since

> > I've been very ill...I think that fact that you

> > " claim " this is definately

> > possible and also " truth " is not only

> irresponsible

> > but also makes you very

> > dangerous to anyone who isn't Lyme

> > educated...Provide the proof before you

> > lay down what you " say " is fact.

> > Robyn In NJ

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

> >

>

>

> =====

> **Liz Kelso**

> " A nice pickle we have landed ourselves in, Mr.

> Frodo! " -- Samwise Gamgee.

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

This question comes up periodically and will continue to, I'm sure. I've had

Lyme for 10 years. My husband of 32 years and I have never used any form of

birth control at all since I was infected. He is fine. No signs, no symptoms,

not sick in any way, shape or form.

My non-scientific, non-doctor mind says no, it can't be sexually transmitted.

I've never seen any proof anywhere that Lyme is sexually transmitted.

I'm sure I'll get blasted for this, but what normally happens is that the

husband and wife, or girlfriend and boyfriend, are in the same place at the same

time. Both get bitten. One gets sick right away and it takes awhile for the

other to get sick. Or the other one doesn't get sick at all. If it takes

longer for the second person to get sick then they 'assume' that one person

transmitted it sexually to the other.

I personally know couples where one has Lyme but not the partner and no birth

control is in use. And these are long-standing Lyme patients ... many years.

Not cases of just being diagnosed.

So, I guess it's up to each individual to make the decision about birth

(disease) control. If you think you may be exposed to Lyme from a partner or

feel that you might infect someone else, then by all means use protection.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Thanks R & H!!!

There you are...one of the best LLMDs in Texas thinks

it is a problem to be studied and testified in court

under oath....a top professional in the field!...Not

just little old me who got it that way...

-Jeff L.

--- Rodney & <rod@...> wrote:

> Can Lyme be sexually transmitted? Personally,

> I 'feel' that it can be.

> One of the best Lyme Drs testified at the Texas

> Senate hearings, thinks it

> can be and that this really needs to be studied. The

> problem is how do you

> prove it? Maybe the partner was infected by a tick

> bite but never saw the

> tick? There are so many variables. Lyme Spirochetes

> have been found in blood

> , urine, vaginal fluid, sperm and breast milk. So

> who's to say? Some Drs

> think that if one person has Lyme and their partner

> tests positive but has

> no symptoms that possibly the reason for the no

> symptoms is they got a

> mutated variety. I do not think that the

> transmission probability is high ,

> but why risk it? We always use protection and avoid

> practices that put each

> other at risk.

> The only way to truly study this is for

> someone to get a grant to do

> it. But with all the problems with Lyme, trying to

> figure if its sexually

> transmitted is the least of their problems. Hope

> this helps,

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I posted the CDC info because someone asked if it was transmittable

thorugh sexual contact. I found ONE place that says it is not.

Didn't say I agreed, just had ONE of the answers. Like you said,

this is a collective opinion site. I didn't slam you for your

contribution, don't slam me. You don't have to belive what the CDC

says (no one does) and no one has to belive what you (or anyone else)

says. Someone mentioned they found an article, and I asked them to

post it, because I'd like to read about it. I'm open to all sides

and interpritations.

Liz

> > > In a message dated 4/30/2002 12:43:47 PM Eastern

> > > Standard Time,

> > > jeffl22@y... writes:

> > >

> > >

> > > > Jeannie ,

> > > >

> > > > Oh, yes you can get it from either partner. I

> > got

> > > it

> > > > from a woman myself! So, there you go! I also

> > > know

> > > > of another couple where the woman contracted to

> > > the

> > > > man as well

> > >

> > > I think this statement is completely false and if

> > > it's not I'd like to see

> > > PROOF of this. I've been sick since 1990 and I

> > have

> > > never ever , anywhere,

> > > read or seen proof that Lyme disease is sexually

> > > transmittable. Neither my

> > > husband nor my ex husband have Lyme Disease and

> > they

> > > were both with me since

> > > I've been very ill...I think that fact that you

> > > " claim " this is definately

> > > possible and also " truth " is not only

> > irresponsible

> > > but also makes you very

> > > dangerous to anyone who isn't Lyme

> > > educated...Provide the proof before you

> > > lay down what you " say " is fact.

> > > Robyn In NJ

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > removed]

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> > =====

> > **Liz Kelso**

> > " A nice pickle we have landed ourselves in, Mr.

> > Frodo! " -- Samwise Gamgee.

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >