Re:Dagmar---hand pain- cats claw is NOT same as levoquin

[Guest guest]

Hi Dag and Purple!!

I know the rumors fly and its easy to read them and want to believe them BUT

here is a quote right from Buhners Book " Healing Lyme " underlines and larger

print are mine

The quinovic acid controversy: A rumor has spread that the quinovic acids in

cat's claw are, at root, the same as quinolone antibiotics. The rumors say that

this is why cat's claw is effective against Lyme spirochetes. Concern has been

generated by this untrue assertion because quinolone antibiotics, in some

instances, can cause severe inflammationi in tendons. So, the word is that cat's

claw can cause tendonitis, resulting in tissue destruction over time. This is

all completely untrue. The quonovic acids in cat's claw are structurally

different than quinolone antibiotics. Molecularly, they are not the same at all

and they do not do the same things. "

please read and re-read the last line especially!!!!!

secondly Lymenet isnt " despised " at all--it has simply fallen below expectations

and no longer exercises fairness or discretion when it comes to who is deleted

or banned. There is also less than trustworthy information that is " allowed " to

go on as long as its making someone in their " in group " money!!

and the LIES dont help either--I personally KNOW and can prove the many recent

occassions where people and long time posters were banned without so mich as a

single warning or explanation!!!

Facts are not allowed that are counter to the " beliefs " of many of the

moderators. The ones in charge have undertaken a smear campaign against

lymeneteurope; where freedom to post cited and proven articles is never

squelched. Thats why many of us have found a home there.

Truth is, any community follows standard ecological patterns---predators will

increase when there is an increase of prey--and those money hungry will go after

desperate groups. The current epidemic of scams and worthless books and ebooks

and so called " Lyme coaches " and internet marketing of products aimed at us very

ill Lymies is appalling though understandable given that the numbers of

afflicted has risen exponentially--in other words the lake has been stocked with

fish (us Lymies) and those wanting to make money off of us are out there

fishing--what gauls me the most is that many of the fisherman are themselves

Lymies and have decided " why not try to get money too after all I have this

illness too why cant i make money off of it " and then use their own illness as

validation of fair play UGH

Thirdly we have to be VERY careful about what we label a HERX, herx pattern etc.

This term has become sullied and overused to the point that many practitioners

will roll their eyes and rightfully so!! Even the MMS people are saying the

vomiting and diarrhea after swallowing the chlorine dioxide is a " herx " when

most likely it is a POISONING.

Herxes vary in time they start and stop as well as depend upon the numbers of

bacteria being killed, how well your body can eliminate the toxic material etc.

( btw for newbies a Herx short for Herxheimer is simply a worsening of symptoms

due to the bacterial cells dying and releasing its own endotoxins and sometimes

due to the effects of our immune systems' killing of the bacteria as well and

releasing endogenous by products of this action...)

NOT all symptoms that patterns is a herx, and not all worsening is a herx--even

very well experienced and educated Lyme practitioners cannot definitively tell

and yet I see another epidemic of people calling any and all worse symptoms that

COINCIDENTALLY come and go a " herx " .

why is this a problem?? well, a true Herx is very valuable to monitor one's

condition as well as to evaluate the effectiveness of a treatment--if we muddy

what a Herx is and is not, we lose the value of this tool.

for example--when you apply a known irritant oil--like Thyme oil- directly to

skin and it gets red and hurts that is NOT " indicative of killing the

infectious organism " " it is a local dermatitis--the skin saying " get that off

of me " and thats ALL.

almost all of the essential oils will say " dilute and do not apply directly to

skin " and some like Thyme oil cant be tolerated, even when diluted, by many.

finally, BEE VENOM products like ointments have actual venom in them!!! if at

all allergic to bee stings do NOT use. ( this is per one of many manufacturers

including Medicine Bee Herbals)? INJECTING venom or using bee sting therapy does

have some studies of helping arthritis by a counter-inflammation process similar

to when they inject sugars into the knee joints. BUT Ive found no study

showing?if the topical applied venom acts the same--how much is even absorbed

etc. having an allergic reaction is not the same as proving its absorbed, and

then absorbed in high enough amounts to DO anything.

and the inflammation bee stings cause for some can only add to whats already

going on with Lyme related inflammation. Like pouring gas or kerosene on a

blazing fire instead of something to put it out.

F

[Guest guest]

Thank you for sharing your wisdom/experience Finette and Purple. I think I

am going to try to trust Buhner and keep up the cats claw and all the rest of

my protocol for a while yet. I agree with Purple that cats claw does cause

more pain and it gets worse the more you take it, I just do not know if this

is some kind of reaction or like fighting bad with something else bad. I had

asked my primary physician a while ago about arthritis medicines like the ones

for rheumatoid arthritis, but she felt none of them really work for Lyme

arthritis anyway. It just feels like we just do not know what is going on in

our bodies and the more knowledge we collect, the more confusion there is. I

do not believe in MMS either, I do not thin any one substance is the magic

cure. I am just listening and learning and trying to figure out what will work

for me. Thank you so much for sharing ladies.

Finette, I understand you are going through all kinds of stuff right now. I

hope all is well.

Dagmar

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