Re: hemobartonella NOT same as Bartonella!!

[Guest guest]

Thanks Finette; What would we do without you?

I don't have any pets, but we have lots of mice, voles, shrews, red squirrels,

chipmunks, a bat, gray squirrels, BLACK FLIES, mosquitoes, deer, fishercat,

porcupines, raccoons, owls, ospreys, etc.--- certainly some blood-sucking

insects!

----purpleff.

[Guest guest]

I just got Schaller's book from Amazon. Also, there are images of the

critters attached to red blood cells somewhere on the internet

(Schallers site or possibly one of Rosner's sites) that show little

dots attached to red blood cells. Are you saying that those dot

critters can be step cocci not mycoplasma or bartonella? From

scanning the book... the bart is not always in the blood.. it is in

bone marrow and elsewhere and is most vulnerable in the blood. My IgG

and IgM were negative Labcorp for bart. Havent had any other tests

including any tests for mycoplasma. Where is it recommended to test

for mycoplasma? Sal (not sure you were talking to me or not!)

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> hemobartonella is a CAT/Dog?

mouse parasite:http://www.geocities.com/joelkehler/hemobartonella.htm

> ( H. canis for dogs and H. muris for mice)

>

> Hemobartonella felis has recently been reclassified as two distinct

parasitic organisms: Mycoplasma haemofelis and Mycoplasma

haemominatum. (A 2006 Swiss study has discovered a third type,

Mycoplasma turicensis.) [1] Both are strange organisms (bacteria

lacking a cell wall) that attach to the surface of red blood cells

rather than infect the cells themselves. M. haemominatum produces

minimal disease. M. hemofelis can produce a life-

threatening " hemolytic " anemia, so called because the body reacts to

the presence of the parasitized cells by coating them with antibodies

that mark them for destruction. The resulting lysis (killing) of

cells occurs at such a high rate that the cat may eventually become

severely anemic, feverish, lethargic, and depressed. The anemia

associated with M. haemofelis is regenerative, since the bone marrow

continues to churn out new cells in an attempt to replace the

destroyed cells. Onset of disease symptoms is sometimes slow and

progressive, sometimes rapid and usually accompanied by jaundice.

>

> and as you can see it IS a Mycoplasma--why they found that in YOUR

blood is beyond me--do you have cats??? Dogs, mice--are they anemic?

Id have your pets tested for this and then treated and I d suggest

asking your Dr for a copy of the results and explanation too. Its

usually contracted by scratches from fights and blood sucking insects-

-I cant find anything to say IF its infective in or even to

humans.possible as myco's are--but unsure

>

> and your results " suggest " this??? another reason Im not a fan of

FRY labs!!!

>

> either they found it or not and if they found " something " they

should be able to identify it.

>

> btw in cats, Doxy seems to be tx of choice...fyi.

>

> I think the confusion comes from another illness " cat scratch

fever " from the actual Bartonella organism!! in Vet/animal medicine

things are often named confusingly and maddeningly in groups not

necessarily the same as in humans.They called this 'hemobart' as its

a bart like organisms attached to blood cells--hence the name.

>

> heres another site stating it IS a myco:

>

> Hemobartonella felis is a gram-negative, non-acid-fast mycoplasma

that lives on the surface of the red blood cell. Measuring between

0.5 and 1.5 µm in diameter or length, this blood parasite exists as

paired cocci, short rods, or small rings on the red blood cell plasma

membrane.4 H. felis infections are relatively common in cats in North

America and produce extravascular hemolytic anemia. Feline leukemia

(FeLV) positive cats with compromised immunity seem most susceptible

to disease.1 Transmission of the parasite is thought to occur by

blood-sucking arthropods such as fleas or by bite wounds. Queens can

transmit the parasite to their offspring, although it is unknown if

the transmission occurs transplacentally, at birth, or transmammary.3

>

> Ive found a few articles where myco's in humans were mistaken for

hemobartonellas!!!

>

> this one says hemobart attaches to SURFACES of RBC and confused

with rickettsias

> http://www.zoologix.com/dogcat/Datasheets/MycoplasmaHaemofelis.htm

>

> yet photos on Fry's site shows what THEY call hemobart that looks

like strep cocci or any coccobacilli

> by appearance you cant tell--did they run PCR's which would

identify what they THINK they see??

> and maybe it is just strep or rickettsial or other similar

coccobacilli ( rod shaped bacteri)??

>

> Finette

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[Guest guest]

Hi There –

I read your post with interest as a sufferer myself with Babesia and

Bartonella, I read with interest. I too just read Dr. Schaller's book!

Schaller's pictures you were referring to can be found at:

http://www.personalconsult.com/articles/bartonellabloodsmears.html

I have never pushed for Lab diagnosis because my skin told the story,

and I am lucky enough to have LLD who could interpret it. My body's

response to treatment for the co-infections is additional

confirmation, and so, I heartily agree with my doctor who says that

the main reason for treatment failure is the presence of co-infections.

Jenna

www.LymeDiseaseResource.com

jennasmith1@...

PS Bartonella in humans infectes the lining of the blood cells

according to Dr.Schaller, and I am guessin, based on my own

experience, that it can be the crutial factor in migraines. Migraine

specialist (I have been to many) have told me that they are due to " an

instability in the blood vessels " but could never tell me why. (Not

related to hormones or allergies) Do you get migraines?

>

> I just got Schaller's book from Amazon. Also, there are images of the

> critters attached to red blood cells somewhere on the internet

> (Schallers site or possibly one of Rosner's sites) that show little

> dots attached to red blood cells. Are you saying that those dot

> critters can be step cocci not mycoplasma or bartonella? From

> scanning the book... the bart is not always in the blood.. it is in

> bone marrow and elsewhere and is most vulnerable in the blood. My IgG

> and IgM were negative Labcorp for bart. Havent had any other tests

> including any tests for mycoplasma. Where is it recommended to test

> for mycoplasma? Sal (not sure you were talking to me or not!)

>

[Guest guest]

Hello,

& nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; There is a long thread on www.lymenet.org about

Fry Lab test results " suggestive of hemobartonella or mycoplasma " . & nbsp; & nbsp;

The people on the thread & nbsp; are trying to determine the right

treatment. & nbsp; It seems to be new territory.

& nbsp;

--- purpleff.

[Guest guest]

Thank you purplrff. Sal

>

> Hello,

> & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; There is a long thread on

www.lymenet.org about Fry Lab test results " suggestive of

hemobartonella or mycoplasma " . & nbsp; & nbsp; The people on the

thread & nbsp; are trying to determine the right treatment. & nbsp; It

seems to be new territory.

> & nbsp;

> --- purpleff.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Jenna. Sal

> >

> > I just got Schaller's book from Amazon. Also, there are images of

the

> > critters attached to red blood cells somewhere on the internet

> > (Schallers site or possibly one of Rosner's sites) that show

little

> > dots attached to red blood cells. Are you saying that those dot

> > critters can be step cocci not mycoplasma or bartonella? From

> > scanning the book... the bart is not always in the blood.. it is

in

> > bone marrow and elsewhere and is most vulnerable in the blood. My

IgG

> > and IgM were negative Labcorp for bart. Havent had any other tests

> > including any tests for mycoplasma. Where is it recommended to

test

> > for mycoplasma? Sal (not sure you were talking to me or not!)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Mycos can be tested like all other bacteria--with IGG and IGM as well as

PCRs--MDL labs and others have it ( unsure about Igenex and unsure about ANY of

their reliability)

as for the " dots " on the photos--Cocci are round bacteria--period--strep is one

kind and Myco another meaning that NOONE can say WHATS in theose pics without

culturing and identifying or PCR etc

what is most telling is the fact that theyre probably NOT Bart based on shape/

appearance in general and where attached

again the confusion came from the name of the Hemobart organism--somethiong a

good lab shouldnt have fallen into? or promoted.

F

[Guest guest]

Thanks for this information! What does Bart look like then? And... it

looks to me from Schaller's book that he is calling these things

Bartonella and going from Fry lab pictures. I am not sure he is doing

further testing or not. Has anyone else got a copy of that book? Sal

>

> Mycos can be tested like all other bacteria--with IGG and IGM as

well as PCRs--MDL labs and others have it ( unsure about Igenex and

unsure about ANY of their reliability)

>

> as for the " dots " on the photos--Cocci are round bacteria--period--

strep is one kind and Myco another meaning that NOONE can say WHATS

in theose pics without culturing and identifying or PCR etc

>

> what is most telling is the fact that theyre probably NOT Bart

based on shape/ appearance in general and where attached

>

>

> again the confusion came from the name of the Hemobart organism--

somethiong a good lab shouldnt have fallen into? or promoted.

> F

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