Re: had to share my experience w/ a couple of Christmas gifts I received

[Guest guest]

Hi,

thanks for sharing this.

I've never had a herx, altho I have read many people on here talking about it.

Could you or someone tell me - what is a herx?

I understand it is a reaction, in this case, to certain herbs.

Do you interpret a herx as a sign of healing?

or is it a sign that the herbs are working?

or do you interpret it as a bad thing?

thank you,

ellen

>

> Hello, I don't post much here, but follow what's going on. I've used many

herbs in the past, but couldn't keep up w/it...too many capsules for my stomach.

>

> But I had to tell you about a couple of things I received for Christmas. I

got a bag from Whole Foods with samples of various products my nieces picked out

for me. One was a bottle of herbal water made by Ayala, and has Ginger and

Lemon Peel essence. My one niece said that it would help calm her stomach, and

since I was a little nauseated that day, I decided to try some.

>

> I put a couple of ounces in a glass and WOW. Within seconds, maybe a minute,

I started herxing! Now I have to say that many things make me herx, and my

herxes are very distinctive. I have a neurologic reaction where my eyes start

closing up, my brain gets groggy, and I end up just having to go to sleep. As

a result I spent the next 2-3 hours on the sofa and missed part of the evening

at my brother's house.

>

> Well I tried some more the next day, and the same thing happened. I plan on

buying some more, but the WF closest to me didn't carry it, so I have to go to

another one to get it.

>

> The other thing they got for me is a granola looking mix call Chia Ginger by

Living Intentions. It says it's enhanced with quinoa sprouts, amaranth sprouts,

pumpkin sprouts, and wild hawthorn berry. It says it's gluten free, dairy free,

nut free and raw. Well, yesterday I decided to open it up and try a little. I

was a little tentative and just put a few little pieces in my mouth to taste it

(I'm not a big granola person), and I started herxing again! I mean, it was

really a strong herx and wiped me out for the rest of the day. I didn't have

more than a teaspoonful at most. In fact I'm sure it was less. The herx was so

strong that I still felt bad today, and I've been feeling pretty good recently

on my mostly drug protocol.

>

> I just tried another very small piece, and again, my eyes started drooping

very quickly.

>

> I'm on some pretty powerful meds, Malarone, Flagyl, roxithromycin

(azithromycin cousin), and artemesinin, so to have such a strong reaction to

these things is rather amazing. I've had strong responses to herbs before but I

was shocked to have such strong reactions to such small amounts of these things.

>

> I know I might be kind of unusual in my response, but I thought I'd put it out

there to see if anyone else wanted to try it and report back if it does anything

for you.

>

> Happy New Years.

>

[Guest guest]

could this be an allergic response?

deb

p.s. Over a year ago, I did the Jemsek protocol which is a short (2 weeks on, 2

weeks off, 2 weeks on) but intense course of abx using all the ones you

mentioned. This was for Babesia. Is that what you are treating?

>

> Hello, I don't post much here, but follow what's going on. I've used many

herbs in the past, but couldn't keep up w/it...too many capsules for my stomach.

>

> But I had to tell you about a couple of things I received for Christmas. I

got a bag from Whole Foods with samples of various products my nieces picked out

for me. One was a bottle of herbal water made by Ayala, and has Ginger and

Lemon Peel essence. My one niece said that it would help calm her stomach, and

since I was a little nauseated that day, I decided to try some.

>

> I put a couple of ounces in a glass and WOW. Within seconds, maybe a minute,

I started herxing! Now I have to say that many things make me herx, and my

herxes are very distinctive. I have a neurologic reaction where my eyes start

closing up, my brain gets groggy, and I end up just having to go to sleep. As

a result I spent the next 2-3 hours on the sofa and missed part of the evening

at my brother's house.

>

> Well I tried some more the next day, and the same thing happened. I plan on

buying some more, but the WF closest to me didn't carry it, so I have to go to

another one to get it.

>

> The other thing they got for me is a granola looking mix call Chia Ginger by

Living Intentions. It says it's enhanced with quinoa sprouts, amaranth sprouts,

pumpkin sprouts, and wild hawthorn berry. It says it's gluten free, dairy free,

nut free and raw. Well, yesterday I decided to open it up and try a little. I

was a little tentative and just put a few little pieces in my mouth to taste it

(I'm not a big granola person), and I started herxing again! I mean, it was

really a strong herx and wiped me out for the rest of the day. I didn't have

more than a teaspoonful at most. In fact I'm sure it was less. The herx was so

strong that I still felt bad today, and I've been feeling pretty good recently

on my mostly drug protocol.

>

> I just tried another very small piece, and again, my eyes started drooping

very quickly.

>

> I'm on some pretty powerful meds, Malarone, Flagyl, roxithromycin

(azithromycin cousin), and artemesinin, so to have such a strong reaction to

these things is rather amazing. I've had strong responses to herbs before but I

was shocked to have such strong reactions to such small amounts of these things.

>

> I know I might be kind of unusual in my response, but I thought I'd put it out

there to see if anyone else wanted to try it and report back if it does anything

for you.

>

> Happy New Years.

>

[Guest guest]

i too had a reaction like that. i bought a bottle of pure organic acai,

gogi, noni, and mangosteen juice and i took an ounce and the next day i was

so out of it.

On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 8:32 PM, opieanddelilah <patti.sano@...>wrote:

>

>

> Hello, I don't post much here, but follow what's going on. I've used many

> herbs in the past, but couldn't keep up w/it...too many capsules for my

> stomach.

>

> But I had to tell you about a couple of things I received for Christmas. I

> got a bag from Whole Foods with samples of various products my nieces picked

> out for me. One was a bottle of herbal water made by Ayala, and has Ginger

> and Lemon Peel essence. My one niece said that it would help calm her

> stomach, and since I was a little nauseated that day, I decided to try some.

>

>

> I put a couple of ounces in a glass and WOW. Within seconds, maybe a

> minute, I started herxing! Now I have to say that many things make me herx,

> and my herxes are very distinctive. I have a neurologic reaction where my

> eyes start closing up, my brain gets groggy, and I end up just having to go

> to sleep. As a result I spent the next 2-3 hours on the sofa and missed part

> of the evening at my brother's house.

>

> Well I tried some more the next day, and the same thing happened. I plan on

> buying some more, but the WF closest to me didn't carry it, so I have to go

> to another one to get it.

>

> The other thing they got for me is a granola looking mix call Chia Ginger

> by Living Intentions. It says it's enhanced with quinoa sprouts, amaranth

> sprouts, pumpkin sprouts, and wild hawthorn berry. It says it's gluten free,

> dairy free, nut free and raw. Well, yesterday I decided to open it up and

> try a little. I was a little tentative and just put a few little pieces in

> my mouth to taste it (I'm not a big granola person), and I started herxing

> again! I mean, it was really a strong herx and wiped me out for the rest of

> the day. I didn't have more than a teaspoonful at most. In fact I'm sure it

> was less. The herx was so strong that I still felt bad today, and I've been

> feeling pretty good recently on my mostly drug protocol.

>

> I just tried another very small piece, and again, my eyes started drooping

> very quickly.

>

> I'm on some pretty powerful meds, Malarone, Flagyl, roxithromycin

> (azithromycin cousin), and artemesinin, so to have such a strong reaction to

> these things is rather amazing. I've had strong responses to herbs before

> but I was shocked to have such strong reactions to such small amounts of

> these things.

>

> I know I might be kind of unusual in my response, but I thought I'd put it

> out there to see if anyone else wanted to try it and report back if it does

> anything for you.

>

> Happy New Years.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

ellen,

you can herx from antibiotics, for sure. it is when the lyme bacteria (or

candida) are dying off and the toxins are being released faster than they

can detox from the body. that is why constant detox with lyme is very

important. so, anything that is cleansing out your body can potentially

cause a herx. at least that is all my knowledge of it. i am sure others can

add.

On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 6:21 AM, rasheedaas <rasheedaas@...> wrote:

>

>

> Hi,

> thanks for sharing this.

> I've never had a herx, altho I have read many people on here talking about

> it.

> Could you or someone tell me - what is a herx?

> I understand it is a reaction, in this case, to certain herbs.

>

> Do you interpret a herx as a sign of healing?

> or is it a sign that the herbs are working?

> or do you interpret it as a bad thing?

>

> thank you,

> ellen

>

>

>

> >

> > Hello, I don't post much here, but follow what's going on. I've used many

> herbs in the past, but couldn't keep up w/it...too many capsules for my

> stomach.

> >

> > But I had to tell you about a couple of things I received for Christmas.

> I got a bag from Whole Foods with samples of various products my nieces

> picked out for me. One was a bottle of herbal water made by Ayala, and has

> Ginger and Lemon Peel essence. My one niece said that it would help calm her

> stomach, and since I was a little nauseated that day, I decided to try some.

>

> >

> > I put a couple of ounces in a glass and WOW. Within seconds, maybe a

> minute, I started herxing! Now I have to say that many things make me herx,

> and my herxes are very distinctive. I have a neurologic reaction where my

> eyes start closing up, my brain gets groggy, and I end up just having to go

> to sleep. As a result I spent the next 2-3 hours on the sofa and missed part

> of the evening at my brother's house.

> >

> > Well I tried some more the next day, and the same thing happened. I plan

> on buying some more, but the WF closest to me didn't carry it, so I have to

> go to another one to get it.

> >

> > The other thing they got for me is a granola looking mix call Chia Ginger

> by Living Intentions. It says it's enhanced with quinoa sprouts, amaranth

> sprouts, pumpkin sprouts, and wild hawthorn berry. It says it's gluten free,

> dairy free, nut free and raw. Well, yesterday I decided to open it up and

> try a little. I was a little tentative and just put a few little pieces in

> my mouth to taste it (I'm not a big granola person), and I started herxing

> again! I mean, it was really a strong herx and wiped me out for the rest of

> the day. I didn't have more than a teaspoonful at most. In fact I'm sure it

> was less. The herx was so strong that I still felt bad today, and I've been

> feeling pretty good recently on my mostly drug protocol.

> >

> > I just tried another very small piece, and again, my eyes started

> drooping very quickly.

> >

> > I'm on some pretty powerful meds, Malarone, Flagyl, roxithromycin

> (azithromycin cousin), and artemesinin, so to have such a strong reaction to

> these things is rather amazing. I've had strong responses to herbs before

> but I was shocked to have such strong reactions to such small amounts of

> these things.

> >

> > I know I might be kind of unusual in my response, but I thought I'd put

> it out there to see if anyone else wanted to try it and report back if it

> does anything for you.

> >

> > Happy New Years.

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think this link has a very good explanation of herxing

http://lymebook.com/blog/the-recovery-process/herx-reactions/herx-reaction-funda\

mentals/

Connie

Re: [ ] Re: had to share my experience w/ a couple of

Christmas gifts I received

ellen,

ou can herx from antibiotics, for sure. it is when the lyme bacteria (or

andida) are dying off and the toxins are being released faster than they

an detox from the body. that is why constant detox with lyme is very

mportant. so, anything that is cleansing out your body can potentially

ause a herx. at least that is all my knowledge of it. i am sure others can

dd.

On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 6:21 AM, rasheedaas <rasheedaas@...> wrote:

>

Hi,

thanks for sharing this.

I've never had a herx, altho I have read many people on here talking about

it.

Could you or someone tell me - what is a herx?

I understand it is a reaction, in this case, to certain herbs.

Do you interpret a herx as a sign of healing?

or is it a sign that the herbs are working?

or do you interpret it as a bad thing?

thank you,

ellen

>

> Hello, I don't post much here, but follow what's going on. I've used many

herbs in the past, but couldn't keep up w/it...too many capsules for my

stomach.

>

> But I had to tell you about a couple of things I received for Christmas.

I got a bag from Whole Foods with samples of various products my nieces

picked out for me. One was a bottle of herbal water made by Ayala, and has

Ginger and Lemon Peel essence. My one niece said that it would help calm her

stomach, and since I was a little nauseated that day, I decided to try some.

>

> I put a couple of ounces in a glass and WOW. Within seconds, maybe a

minute, I started herxing! Now I have to say that many things make me herx,

and my herxes are very distinctive. I have a neurologic reaction where my

eyes start closing up, my brain gets groggy, and I end up just having to go

to sleep. As a result I spent the next 2-3 hours on the sofa and missed part

of the evening at my brother's house.

>

> Well I tried some more the next day, and the same thing happened. I plan

on buying some more, but the WF closest to me didn't carry it, so I have to

go to another one to get it.

>

> The other thing they got for me is a granola looking mix call Chia Ginger

by Living Intentions. It says it's enhanced with quinoa sprouts, amaranth

sprouts, pumpkin sprouts, and wild hawthorn berry. It says it's gluten free,

dairy free, nut free and raw. Well, yesterday I decided to open it up and

try a little. I was a little tentative and just put a few little pieces in

my mouth to taste it (I'm not a big granola person), and I started herxing

again! I mean, it was really a strong herx and wiped me out for the rest of

the day. I didn't have more than a teaspoonful at most. In fact I'm sure it

was less. The herx was so strong that I still felt bad today, and I've been

feeling pretty good recently on my mostly drug protocol.

>

> I just tried another very small piece, and again, my eyes started

drooping very quickly.

>

> I'm on some pretty powerful meds, Malarone, Flagyl, roxithromycin

(azithromycin cousin), and artemesinin, so to have such a strong reaction to

these things is rather amazing. I've had strong responses to herbs before

but I was shocked to have such strong reactions to such small amounts of

these things.

>

> I know I might be kind of unusual in my response, but I thought I'd put

it out there to see if anyone else wanted to try it and report back if it

does anything for you.

>

> Happy New Years.

>

Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Buy Healing Lyme: Natural Healing And Prevention of Lyme Borreliosis And Its

oinfections by Buhner at one of these locations:

ttp://tinyurl.com/3bgm5d

[Guest guest]

>

>

> I think this link has a very good explanation of herxing

>

>

http://lymebook.com/blog/the-recovery-process/herx-reactions/herx-reaction-funda\

mentals/

Although it raises some good points, e.g. that most of the symptoms are the

immune system trying to fight the disease, I think it is generally a bad

explanation. There are many flaws in this text, it is medically and

biochemically not correct (I admit that there is a lot we don't know, but some

things we do know ....).

Officially (by definition, medically) a herx is caused by toxin release in the

bloodstream, caused by massive die-off of pathogens. I'm pretty sure this does

NOT apply to most of the 'herx' reactions experienced by Lyme patients, and

definitely not when someone has been on antibiotics for some time already. If

there is a massive Borrelia die-off, it would be easy to measure in e.g. blood

or urine using PCR or other technologies. No one has shown such a thing AFAIK.

Sudden 'herx' reactions could be food allergies, or maybe something that causes

the immune system to get more alert (supplements, foods, probiotics, hormones,

stress etc. might cause that). Some of the recurring Lyme 'herx' reactions

(monthly / yearly cycle) are caused by interaction of the Borrelia with our

immune system. Or even something that blocks detox pathways (like GSE and some

other products do), which will temporarily increase the amount of toxins in the

blood.

From time to time the Borrelia will change their surface antigens or maybe take

another pleiomorphic form, which will cause a (delayed) immune reaction

especially if these changes are coordinated among the Bb (which is likely due to

their use of quorum sensing, and the fact that they respond to the immune

activity).

[Guest guest]

Yes, I'm treating for Babesia. I also have Lyme, but at present I think Babesia

is the primary problem. Were you able to get rid of it?

I'd be interested in hearing how you did, because I've been doing it without any

breaks. But now I think I'm developing peripheral neuropathy from the Flagyl,

bec my toes and feet have gotten numb. Maybe I can pm you about it?

Patti

>

> could this be an allergic response?

>

> deb

>

> p.s. Over a year ago, I did the Jemsek protocol which is a short (2 weeks on,

2 weeks off, 2 weeks on) but intense course of abx using all the ones you

mentioned. This was for Babesia. Is that what you are treating?

>

>

[Guest guest]

You can also herx from Babesia die off.

> >

> >

> > I think this link has a very good explanation of herxing

> >

> >

http://lymebook.com/blog/the-recovery-process/herx-reactions/herx-reaction-funda\

mentals/

>

> Although it raises some good points, e.g. that most of the symptoms are the

immune system trying to fight the disease, I think it is generally a bad

explanation. There are many flaws in this text, it is medically and

biochemically not correct (I admit that there is a lot we don't know, but some

things we do know ....).

>

> Officially (by definition, medically) a herx is caused by toxin release in the

bloodstream, caused by massive die-off of pathogens. I'm pretty sure this does

NOT apply to most of the 'herx' reactions experienced by Lyme patients, and

definitely not when someone has been on antibiotics for some time already. If

there is a massive Borrelia die-off, it would be easy to measure in e.g. blood

or urine using PCR or other technologies. No one has shown such a thing AFAIK.

>

> Sudden 'herx' reactions could be food allergies, or maybe something that

causes the immune system to get more alert (supplements, foods, probiotics,

hormones, stress etc. might cause that). Some of the recurring Lyme 'herx'

reactions (monthly / yearly cycle) are caused by interaction of the Borrelia

with our immune system. Or even something that blocks detox pathways (like GSE

and some other products do), which will temporarily increase the amount of

toxins in the blood.

>

> From time to time the Borrelia will change their surface antigens or maybe

take another pleiomorphic form, which will cause a (delayed) immune reaction

especially if these changes are coordinated among the Bb (which is likely due to

their use of quorum sensing, and the fact that they respond to the immune

activity).

>

[Guest guest]

Patti,

I got rid of babesia with Boneset Tea which Buhner recommends.

Buhner also recommends artemisin (sp) for Babesia.

I hope you can find something to replace the Flagyl.

regards,

ellen

> >

> > could this be an allergic response?

> >

> > deb

> >

> > p.s. Over a year ago, I did the Jemsek protocol which is a short (2 weeks

on, 2 weeks off, 2 weeks on) but intense course of abx using all the ones you

mentioned. This was for Babesia. Is that what you are treating?

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Ellen,

Hello.  How long did you have babesia?  My 12 year old daughter was diagnosed

with lyme & babesia over a year ago, and was on anti-biotics IV for 8 months,

and was  is on mypron / zithro combo.  I pulse the anti-biotics when she is

herxing.  She also takes artemisin, and lipoic acid (antioxiant) with the

antibiotics,  then theralac, saccharomyce boulaurdi (probiotics)  hours later

to

help immune system.  Never heard of Boneset Tea?  Is it a tea bag?  Where can

you get it?  healthfood store?

Regards

Mypron/zitro combo works well with babesia

________________________________

From: rasheedaas <rasheedaas@...>

Sent: Fri, January 7, 2011 6:27:27 AM

Subject: [ ] Re: had to share my experience w/ a couple of

Christmas gifts I received

 

Patti,

I got rid of babesia with Boneset Tea which Buhner recommends.

Buhner also recommends artemisin (sp) for Babesia.

I hope you can find something to replace the Flagyl.

regards,

ellen

> >

> > could this be an allergic response?

> >

> > deb

> >

> > p.s. Over a year ago, I did the Jemsek protocol which is a short (2 weeks

on,

>2 weeks off, 2 weeks on) but intense course of abx using all the ones you

>mentioned. This was for Babesia. Is that what you are treating?

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Ellen,

How often and how much (i.e., # drops) Boneset tea did you drink? I drank

boneset tea a few years back and still have a little left (herbpharm brand).

I've been taking artemesinin for Babs also.

Patti

> > >

> > > could this be an allergic response?

> > >

> > > deb

> > >

> > > p.s. Over a year ago, I did the Jemsek protocol which is a short (2 weeks

on, 2 weeks off, 2 weeks on) but intense course of abx using all the ones you

mentioned. This was for Babesia. Is that what you are treating?

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Patti,

I had the tea bags and I just drank a cup as often as I remembered.

On p. 187 of his book, Buhner has directions and dosage.

Sorry my eyes are not good enough to type that for you, but if you have the

book, it is there.

best,

ellen

> > > >

> > > > could this be an allergic response?

> > > >

> > > > deb

> > > >

> > > > p.s. Over a year ago, I did the Jemsek protocol which is a short (2

weeks on, 2 weeks off, 2 weeks on) but intense course of abx using all the ones

you mentioned. This was for Babesia. Is that what you are treating?

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>