Re: Anyone acquired a resistence to the herbs?

January 8, 2008

Athena:

Some of us have Chronic Lyme, so may never be totally rid of the symptoms.

But I have been taking the herbs for over two years now, and I don't think I

would even be here if it wasn't for them.

I am sure that the Ketes could build up resistance to some of the herbs, just

like they hide from abx. But the herbs I have found make me FEEL better while

taking them and the abx make me feel BAD while taking THEM.

No two people are exactly alike, but we are still ALL people and have some of

the same reaxtions to most things.

I found that I had to stay on the MAX Buhner protocols, notice I said

ProtocolS, not protocol; for a lot longer than his recommended MINIMUM of two

months. About 5 months or so of it. Then I cut back, but had to raise them up

some again. EVERYBODY will have to have a DIFFERENT maintenance protocol. I

take about 8 to 10 herbs in my regimen. That is three times what his CORE

protocol is. So that makes a big difference too. It depends on what symptoms

you have as to what all you take. Each will be different there too.

So when I feel symptoms returning, I raise my " maintenance " dose a little.

Sometimes I drop an herb for awhile. Like now I am off Cat's Claw totally for a

few weeks.

I wouldn't call the herbs " natural antibiotics " either. They work on a

totally different principal than abx do. Some ONLY treat your symptoms and make

you " feel " better. Some actually clear up a problem one way or another. But

the main thing is for most people they work.

I have found them to even help my " old age " problems, that no abx could do.

At least not without a whole bunch of bad side effects.

Hope this helps some.

Jim.

###

zyph3 <raspberry82@...> wrote:

Hi all,

I'm wondering if anyone has run into the herbs gradually not working

and having their lyme and co-infections become resistent to the Buhner

protocol? I've been told by a lyme literate doctor that although the

herbs are beneficial (and I personally had a lot of benefit from them

after using the full protocol for 7 months, I was never able to

decrease to the maintenance dose) it is possible for the spirochetes

to build up a resistence to them at some point since the herbs are

basically natural antibiotics?

I read from some people on here that they had to go back to an

increased amount of herbs after they were on the lower maintenance

dose for some time because it stopped working as well.

Any info from people on this would be greatly appreciated . I

switched to a sea salt/vit c protocol for the past 2-3 weeks and have

felt even more improvement from it than I did from the herbal protocol.

-Athena

---------------------------------

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January 8, 2008

PS Be very careful on that high salt intake. I wouldn't dare to go on that,

especially right now as I have been having chest pains for about 6 weeks. Going

in for an Andenoscan, stress imaging, tomorrow, to see if I have blockages.

I take in too much salt as it is. Vitamin C is good though. But I can only

take that in the form of effervescent C. Called C-Salts from nutri.com.

Jim.

###

zyph3 <raspberry82@...> wrote:

Hi all,

I'm wondering if anyone has run into the herbs gradually not working

and having their lyme and co-infections become resistent to the Buhner

protocol? I've been told by a lyme literate doctor that although the

herbs are beneficial (and I personally had a lot of benefit from them

after using the full protocol for 7 months, I was never able to

decrease to the maintenance dose) it is possible for the spirochetes

to build up a resistence to them at some point since the herbs are

basically natural antibiotics?

I read from some people on here that they had to go back to an

increased amount of herbs after they were on the lower maintenance

dose for some time because it stopped working as well.

Any info from people on this would be greatly appreciated . I

switched to a sea salt/vit c protocol for the past 2-3 weeks and have

felt even more improvement from it than I did from the herbal protocol.

-Athena

---------------------------------

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

January 8, 2008

Difficult question. But I guess I haven't heard anything like that,

not in the modes of what happen with abx. Buhner answered this

question in Planet Trhive or in his book.

Sometimes I need shifting of herbs, but I don't believe on the theory

of the critters getting resistant. Unless you use only one herb and

not a combination, in my opinion. I almost always returned to the

herb I dropped with good results. Even then, I wonder if they ever

get resistant because of the thousands of chemicals....

Some people are on cats claw for ages and didn't get better, and

relapse when they wean. But some depend on it to survive, so even

with the years, they still take the thing because it works.

But most didnt' use the whole protocol.

Another reason are 'other reasons' than herbs/ medicine. I mean, your

body can be harboring critters in 'dirty' spots, or due to

hypercoagulation, bad circulation, or because critters stick to

points where you got troubles before (like a scar, an ancient wound,

an ancient spot on your vertebral column that always ached, your

teeth/ roots etc). Or merely because your intestines are not

absorbing the herbs/ abx right because of other problems.

This is all speculation though, but I feel it explains a lot why some

people don't improve even with years on treatment. Don't blame the

abx or herbs always. MOst of the times, the problem is somewhere

else. If you get back to success stories in lymenet, most of the

people that got lyme under control/ remission were doing a cleansing

protocol too.

Selma

>

> Hi all,

>

> I'm wondering if anyone has run into the herbs gradually not

working

> and having their lyme and co-infections become resistent to the

Buhner

> protocol? I've been told by a lyme literate doctor that although the

> herbs are beneficial (and I personally had a lot of benefit from

them

> after using the full protocol for 7 months, I was never able to

> decrease to the maintenance dose) it is possible for the spirochetes

> to build up a resistence to them at some point since the herbs are

> basically natural antibiotics?

>

> I read from some people on here that they had to go back to an

> increased amount of herbs after they were on the lower maintenance

> dose for some time because it stopped working as well.

>

> Any info from people on this would be greatly appreciated . I

> switched to a sea salt/vit c protocol for the past 2-3 weeks and

have

> felt even more improvement from it than I did from the herbal

protocol.

>

> -Athena

>

January 12, 2008

Athena,

I think the results of the Buhner herbs depends on your immune system. They

seem to work for many folks on this site, they do not do too much for myself

unfortunately, but then again, maybe I would be worse if I did not take them

so I keep taking them like clock work.

Dagmar

**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.

http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

January 12, 2008

The bugs cannot acquire resistance to herbs.

Think about it:

Plant medicine has been around for millions of years. If organisms

were going to acquire resistance to them, don't you think they would

have by now?

In his book, The secret language of plants, Stephne Buhner explains

the science of it. Briefly: when drug companies make a medicine out of

a substance found in a plant, they isolate one element and produce a

medicine. In the plant, the elements work in concert with each other.

They are in relationship. They are complex. Therefore the disease

organism cannot acquire resistance to it.

This is why artemisinin continues to be effective against malaria,

altho drug teatments lose out to resistance, one after the other.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1364080.stm

Plant medicines cannot be patented, therefore the drug companies are

not interested in using them, since they (the drug companies) cannot

make billions of profits from them.

ellen

>

> Athena,

>

> I think the results of the Buhner herbs depends on your immune

system. They

> seem to work for many folks on this site, they do not do too much

for myself

> unfortunately, but then again, maybe I would be worse if I did not

take them

> so I keep taking them like clock work.

>

> Dagmar

>

> **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.

> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489