flagyl

[Guest guest]

Flagyl made me very nauseated and dizzy,and my stomach hurt alot,but it

works. I had to have it for a stubborn case of thrush...(systemic too)

..according to my dr.

Flagyl

>From: rhbailey@...

>

>Dear Mike,

>

>You wrote, " Dr. B wants me take Flagyl

>for three weeks as a metamatrix test for dysbiosis (bad critters in

small

>intestine) came back positive; and also flagyl kills lyme, too, but my

>drs. disagree whether this is a good idea. "

>

>Please let us know if the Flagyl has any effect on your sleep.

>

>Sue B.

>

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Show mom you love her. Check out our great Mother's Day Gifts!

>14K Gold and gemstone jewelry, leather and cloth wallets and purses,

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>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

[Guest guest]

Dysbiosis is a general term for disordered germ content on the bowels. It is not

specific enough a term to see if Flagyl is right for you. If you take it, don't

use anything with vinegar in it

especially certain salad dressings. Flagyl is a broad spectrum antibiotic that

is good for certain infections such as giardia and trich but has a fair amount

of GI side effects and rashes and

occasionally more serious problems such as peripheral neuopathy. Ask the

pharmacist for a fact sheet or get it from the internet. Everything is on the

net if you look hard. PS I am a physician with

30 years experience,

rhbailey@... wrote:

> From: rhbailey@...

>

> Dear Mike,

>

> You wrote, " Dr. B wants me take Flagyl

> for three weeks as a metamatrix test for dysbiosis (bad critters in small

> intestine) came back positive; and also flagyl kills lyme, too, but my

> drs. disagree whether this is a good idea. "

>

> Please let us know if the Flagyl has any effect on your sleep.

>

> Sue B.

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Show mom you love her. Check out our great Mother's Day Gifts!

> 14K Gold and gemstone jewelry, leather and cloth wallets and purses,

> gardening, gourmet, kitchen, more! Free Shipping in the US!

> /ad/shoptheglobe5

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

What she said was that she didn't know that it killed bacteria. Go to any book

store and they will have a long complicated insert on Flagyl. It does not kill

yeast. it does kill certain parasites

and anaerobic bacteria . It does not kill all varieties of parasites or bacteria

.. No other product does either but natural herb products are antiseptics that

don't build resistance as readily as

antibiotics.

ne Kieffer wrote:

> From: ne Kieffer <theocean@...>

>

> Did someone on this list say that Flagyl is not good to help kill

> bacteria? I am using it to help kill small intestine bacteria

> overgrowth, is this okay or will it not kill it? I am also using it for

> parasites. JL

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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> Tell them about ONElist's 115,000 free e-mail communities!

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

Hi--How much Flagyl are you taking? I have just been diagnosed with

Erlichia and suspect Lyme as well. I am currently taking Doxy 200 bid

every other day and trying to take 250 Flagyl bid. I can handle the herx

with the Doxy but even this small amount of Flagyl is almost totally

incapacitating. But then I've been quite ill for a number of years.

Thanks for your feedback.

Hope

Re: Re : Tr : Re : Re: RNase L test interpret ation

>

>Steve,

>

>Flagyl is an anti-bacterial and is also effective against protozoa such

as

>Giardia and Babiosis (sp?), hence it's most common use is to treat GI

>parasitic infections. It's not effective against viruses to my

knowledge.

>

>Have you finished your trial with the growth hormone shots?

>

>Regards,

>

> Cheney, insurance

>

>Dear Carol,

>

>I have watched your posts in past week, but was without PC for a few

days

>and missed your CHeney posts. No problem - they are archived.

>

>It is wonderful that you got such good support from your congragation

and

>family! I am so impressed that your mother is there with your at your

>appointments. mine says it's better not to know too much -LOL! BTW,

I

>was raised in the Presbyterian church too, and have a cousin who is a

Youth

>Minister in the church. The parish nurse here was of great help this

>summer when I was hospitalized - they need about 3 of these however!

>

>It does sound like Cheny is most helpful with the disability letters -

>these need to be written by strict guidelines - in SSA language!

>

>How are you liking Texas? I am familiar with your area as I have spent

>lots of time in Texas. ANd wouldn't mind being there now as winter is

>coming here in MIchigan!

>

>Although I have strayed off topic, I want to welcome you to this list.

It

>is obvious that the info you have shared has been greatly appreciated

here

>and I look foward to your posts. Keep feeling better!

>

>Take care,

>

>CHrisite

>

>

>

>

>>For seven months I stayed in my apartment, virtually bedridden. I had

>been working as an associate pastor at a Presbyterian church, and they

were

>incredible. Meals were brought every day for seven months, they did

the

>little grocery shopping I needed, had my car inspected, and continued

to

>pay my salary for five months until we'd gotten word that I would be

>receiving LTD benefits. My mother and uncle came and moved me back

home to

>Texas to live with her so she could care for me.

>>

>>I am (well, I was, and hope to be again) reviewed often - six months

>between the end of one disability review and the beginning of the next.

>Just awful! I had to have continuing documentation for those reviews.

>Cheney was fantastic at the documentation and I was very impressed with

him

>as a doctor, so we decided to continue seeing him. I live very close

to

>DFW airport (Dallas - Ft. Worth), and we can fly Vanguard into Myrtle

Beach

>for $200 round-trip. We rent a car and drive to South Port, NC, and

take

>the ferry to Bald Head Island where Cheney's clinic is located. We are

>usually fortunate enough to stay nearby in the vacation home of a

friend

>from the church I served in Rocky Mount, NC. My mother always goes

with

>me, and she always sits in on everything with Cheney. It helps greatly

>that she hears all he says and understands this illness.

>>

>>Quite honestly, most of my disability benefits have gone to pay for my

>seven visits to Cheney since April 1996, and the supplements and

>prescriptions. It has, in my opinion, been worth every penny. I

believe I

>would be much worse without his care, and without his expertise that

got me

>my disability benefits. My lawyer believes that with the test results

from

>this last visit we should be ab

>

>

>_______________________________________________________________________

________

>_______________________________________________________________________

________

>

[Guest guest]

>From: " Hess " <krhess@...>

>> Hi--How much Flagyl are you taking? I have just been diagnosed with

>Erlichia and suspect Lyme as well. I am currently taking Doxy 200 bid

>every other day and trying to take 250 Flagyl bid. I can handle the herx

>with the Doxy but even this small amount of Flagyl is almost totally

>incapacitating. But then I've been quite ill for a number of years.

>

>Thanks for your feedback.

>Hope

Hi,

I take 1500mg flagyl each day and GI problems have totally disappeared!

However, Ican understand the combo of doxy and flagyl could be hard on the

intestine. I am unable to tolerate doxy at all due to severe gut reactions,

although perhaps I could tolerate it IM or IV. Has your doctor suggested

these alternatives?

How does your herx manifest itself? I expected GI problems with flagyl,

but instead have had increased joint stiffness and pain. Don't know if

this is herx or result of attempt to do weight bearing exercise.

Erlichia could be a co-infection of lyme. Have you had an antibotic

challange with a LUAT (lyme unine antigen test). My LLMD(lyme literate

doc) says he has never seen a false positive in this test. But only 20-30%

of people are positive on the Western Blot. It is REALLY necessary to have

a LLMD who is experiences in treating these tick borne diseases. They can

be difficult to find as they have been harrassed by traditional medical

establishment. But it is not impossible to find one, as lyme community is

pulling together to help each other and the LLMD's, and to fight the

conservatives who insist that lyme is a begin disease. If you need a

doctor, please write me and I can connect you to sources who will help find

a doctor in your area. And again, anyone with a tick dx I still recommend

lyme-aidonelist for information, doctor referral, and support. In

addition, listed other lyme sources in her post today. I'm new

to lyme on the net and still need to access these sites myself!

Hope this helps and please keeping trying for a diagnosis. You know how

you feel - more than the doctor!

Take care,

Chrisite

[Guest guest]

>Anyone on the list ever been diag. w/giardia or tested?????

>

>Marcia

Bran new to the list and need to introduce myself and will - just not in the

middle of the night (like now!).

Felt compelled by your question, Marcia, - yes, I have been tested for

giardia a few times...had irritable bowel and the straight med docs would

routinely run that test...never any positives, tho - the IBS pretty mcuh

stopped when I stopped wheat, sugar, etc...

Thorstensen (intro to come...just jumping in here...)

[Guest guest]

Dr. Steve wrote:

> From: " Dr. Steve " <moores@...>

>

> I have heard of folks doing well on it also --is it an abx or antiviral?

>

> thanks

>

> Steve

We used Flagyl in vet med. to treat the parasite Giardia, back in late 70's.

Many dogs could not tolerate this med it made them so sick but was the best

giardia treatment at that time. Since I lost

my career from this illness, I don't know how much it is still being used. I

was never tested for giardia but there was an outbreak where I lived from the

city water supply and over 22 cases were

confirmed. One of the main symptoms is diah. and stomach cramping and I was

always constipated so they never tested me. Giardia can be hard to detect and I

have always wondered............

Anyone on the list ever been diag. w/giardia or tested?????

Marcia

[Guest guest]

Dr. Steve wrote:

> From: " Dr. Steve " <moores@...>

>

> I got giardia about 12 year ago on a camping trip it lasted about 2 weeks I do

not think it has anything to do with my getting CFS but who knows. Marcia were

you a vet?

>

> Steve

No, vet assistant a few years, then was a rep for a large distributor and sold

biologicals and pharmaceuticals from 150 diff. companies to vets. here in

Oregon.......sadly out of touch now.

Marcia

[Guest guest]

Thorstensen wrote:

> From: " Thorstensen " <jane_doe_press@...>

>

> >Anyone on the list ever been diag. w/giardia or tested?????

> >

> >Marcia

>

> Bran new to the list and need to introduce myself and will - just not in the

> middle of the night (like now!).

>

> Felt compelled by your question, Marcia, - yes, I have been tested for

> giardia a few times...had irritable bowel and the straight med docs would

> routinely run that test...never any positives, tho - the IBS pretty mcuh

> stopped when I stopped wheat, sugar, etc...

> Thorstensen (intro to come...just jumping in here...)

,

Thanks for your response. I was diag. with IBS too, tried doing without wheat

and dairy but didn't see much change and it was TOO hard!!!!!

Welcome to the list and feel free to jump in anytime......thats what is so great

is you get to hear all this feedback from others and really helps put things in

perspective.......I've learned SO

much from this list.

Marcia

[Guest guest]

I had giardia (we think) in the spring semester of 1990 -- I say " in the

spring semester " because I went two months with a fever of 101 before

anybody diagnosed anything. The stool tests kept coming up negative,

but that's not unusual. Finally, the gastroenterologist gave me Flagyl

to see what would happen -- and within two days I was 100 percent

better. It was the same quick response you get when you have Strep and

you take ampicillen -- amazing. I stayed on Flagyl for two months. The

symptoms never returned.

Then in the fall of 1990, I came down with Epstein-Barr (for the third

time) ... and from then on, I was sick. But, we could really start with

the giardia as the beginning of my illness, with a remission in the

summer of 1990. Or, for that matter, go back to 1989 when I had

emergency gallbladder surgery.

I used to joke with my students when they would ask " who killed Kennedy "

that the problem isn't " who had a motive " -- there were probably at

least 10 different groups with motives to assassinate Kennedy. The

question is which one actually pulled it off. I have fantasies of

writing a black comedy where EVERYBODY is in Dallas that week planning

to do the assassination -- the FBI, the CIA, the KGB, the Mafia,

's henchmen (either after Kennedy or the Texas governor, or

both), Aristotle Onassis (with an eye on Jackie) or Jackie's extended

family (angry about Marilyn), Marilyn's extended family angry about Jack

.... with Lee Harvey Oswald the only innocent one. They all get in each

other's way, there are so many of them. He's aiming at one of them and

misses.

At any rate -- sometimes I feel like that about what is the " cause " of

my illness. Pick one. Sigh.

Schweitzer

mailto:Schweit2@...

[Guest guest]

Giardia can be hard to detect and I have always wondered............

>

>Anyone on the list ever been diag. w/giardia or tested?????

>

>Marcia

>

Yes, my whole family!! And those little bugs showed up well - in color and

with all legs showing! They are beautiful bugs that can kill! Don't drink

water out of a stream!

CHristie

[Guest guest]

>

>> From: " Dr. Steve " <moores@...>

>>

>> I got giardia about 12 year ago on a camping trip it lasted about 2

weeks I do not think it has anything to do with my getting CFS but who knows.

Hi,

I got giardia in 85, at same time as infarct. I asked NEURO-Opth if this

parasite could affect eye and he didn't think so. But as for CFS. my

collaspe came after a serious aemobic infection in 91 - blastocyctis

homonis. When I FINALLY got dx'ed with real dx (not " stress " ), I took

flayl and floxin and started to get better. In 92, I suddenly could simply

not stay awake. I thought it was because I had been in sun - as autoimmune

disease (lupus) was suspected in me. Then I was dx'ed with lyme in 94 and

discontimued ABX treatment as I had 2nd infarct and thought lyme couldn't

do that, and also because lyme met -and still does- great hostility here in

Michigan. I was fired from 1st RHEUM for seeking dx for lyme just as a

precaution!

So, I still really don't know what I have - perhaps " post-lyme syndrome " as

suggested by Steere faction, but I do know my downfall came after that

infection, which BTW I got 36 hours after a colonoscopy. Primary said I

was infected from scope,but not to repeat that he said it. As far as I " m

concerned I was injured and disabled by medical profession. Now it is

known that scopes are a vehicle of infection because a doctor finally blew

the whistle. If I can find the Newsweek article on this I will post it.

Will quit rambling for a minute!

Christie

Marcia,

I KNOW what you mean about being out of touch !! Ok, rant over for

now......

[Guest guest]

C.Tab. wrote:

> At 09:23 PM 12/27/99 -0600, you wrote:

> >From: " Dr. Steve " <moores@...>

> >

> >I have heard of folks doing well on it also --is it an abx or antiviral?

> >

> >

> Hi,

>

> Flagyl is called an antibotic, but is actually an anti-protozoan which is

> used to treat ameobic infections and other parasites. For example, our

> whole family took it for giardia infection. It is new in lyme treatment and

> is used to treat the spirochete when it retreats to cyst form and thus is

> harder to treat. That is the theory anyway & I sure hope it works!

>

> Christie

Its kind of amazing how many on this list either had or been exposed to giardia

infections.....wonder if they really do go away or just lurk.......

Marcia

[Guest guest]

I was tested for both Giardia and Lactose Intolerance. The Giardia was

negative (was told it was a test for Celiac Disease - gluten intolerance) and

I tested highly positive for Lactose Intolerance. Since eliminating dairy

from my diet, my IBS is practically gone.

[Guest guest]

>Felt compelled by your question, Marcia, - yes, I have been tested for

>giardia a few times...had irritable bowel and the straight med docs would

>routinely run that test...never any positives, tho - the IBS pretty mcuh

>stopped when I stopped wheat, sugar, etc...

> Thorstensen (intro to come...just jumping in here...)

>

Hi and welcome!! Christie

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Dairy definately cause IBS, and am glad you found the cause. And also glad

it wasn't the parasites. Although we are on a parasite roll now, they

aren't the cause of everything - LOL! Just some perspective - especially

given that this is a subject I can relate to.

Take care,

Christie

At 06:11 AM 12/29/99 EST, you wrote:

>From: Rbb825@...

>

>I was tested for both Giardia and Lactose Intolerance. The Giardia was

>negative (was told it was a test for Celiac Disease - gluten intolerance)

and

>I tested highly positive for Lactose Intolerance. Since eliminating dairy

>from my diet, my IBS is practically gone.

>

>>This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

[Guest guest]

<PRE>Yes it is one of a few, i have tried this & was semi successful, i need to

do

it again but haven't. Mog

[Guest guest]

Phil,

I am on flagyl and you need to cut the pill in smaller amts. This is what my

lyme dr told me. This way the herx are livable and you can function. Start w/a

1/4 tab of the flagyl and then increase slowly. STop when herxing and you either

get better or worse than take another 1/4 amt. Your body will adapt. You started

out w/too strong a dose at once before seeing how the body would react.

sbm@...

[ ] Flagyl

I just had my first experience with flagyl and feel like an atomic bomb went

off in my body. My LLMD had me start with one and increase up to 3 to get a

herx. He thinks the spirochette has encapsulated. After a couple of weeks at

3/day, it is definitely working.But I have had to stop due to the digestive

problems and constant thirst and urinating. I have never had flagyl before. Is

this kind of reaction normal? What exactly does it do and are there other

alternatives to it? I am reluctant to ever take it again.

Phil

[Guest guest]

Hey Phil,

Many folks will tell you the Flagyl Herx is horrible........and I

think they're right. I was on Flagyl for 5 months. The info the

gave you about starting slow and working your way up to the

full dose is right on. My LLMD said the same. I, too, tried to push

the envelope and ended up having to do exactly what said.

It was explained to me the the Flagyl is like dropping a

bomb.....shakes the system up enough to cause the cyst form

(encapsulated) spirochetes to come out from hiding. One of the few

antibiotics effective on cyst form Bb. But usually, one would also be

taking another antibiotic to hit those Bb bacteria in their changed

form.....no longer are they the cyst form, but are now the cell-wall

deficient type, I think. Working from memory here and we all know

how that sometimes works (or doesn't)! I think I was on Doxy or

Amoxicillin in addition to the Flagyl.

It was a very rough period. Besides the whole body herx, I also had

terrible headaches........LLMD said that is very common in folks with

neuro lyme. All those bacteria coming out from hiding and then the

toxins produced by the die-off makes for one killer headache. Are

you taking any pain meds?

Drink lots of good water. Be especially kind to your body. Hold on

to the idea that these symptoms mean you are killing lots of Lyme

bacteria.

Are you still able to work? I can't remember your story, but don't

you use many alternative/complementary (sp?) therapies? Look in your

detox bag of tricks and do what you can to facilitate eliminating the

toxins. There is this product called TRI-SALTS (very cheap, very

effective) that helps to restore the pH.........when all those waste

products from the die off are released, it creates an acidic

environment that is very noxious and irritating to nerve endings,

which causes that quantum leap in your pain level. You can get this

stuff at some Health Food places or online at

www.healingedge.net/store/ecological.html. It is about $7.95 for a

huge bottle. I've had mine for over a year and still have quite a

bit left. I benefit in no way from mentioning this product other

than to hopefully share something that helped me and might help you.

I wish you well!

NurseDeb

-- In @y..., " sbm " <sbm@f...> wrote:

> Phil,

>

> I am on flagyl and you need to cut the pill in smaller amts. This

is what my lyme dr told me. This way the herx are livable and you can

function. Start w/a 1/4 tab of the flagyl and then increase slowly.

STop when herxing and you either get better or worse than take

another 1/4 amt. Your body will adapt. You started out w/too strong a

dose at once before seeing how the body would react.

>

> sbm@f...

> [ ] Flagyl

>

>

> I just had my first experience with flagyl and feel like an

atomic bomb went off in my body. My LLMD had me start with one and

increase up to 3 to get a herx. He thinks the spirochette has

encapsulated.

[Guest guest]

Can you tell me what is flagyl herx and is it from a doctor or health store

[ ] Flagyl

>

>

> I just had my first experience with flagyl and feel like an

atomic bomb went off in my body. My LLMD had me start with one and

increase up to 3 to get a herx. He thinks the spirochette has

encapsulated.

[Guest guest]

Thanks . I was too impatient for results and boy I got them!

Phil

Re: [ ] Flagyl

> Phil,

>

> I am on flagyl and you need to cut the pill in smaller amts. This is what

my lyme dr told me. This way the herx are livable and you can function.

Start w/a 1/4 tab of the flagyl and then increase slowly. STop when herxing

and you either get better or worse than take another 1/4 amt. Your body will

adapt. You started out w/too strong a dose at once before seeing how the

body would react.

[Guest guest]

Deb

Thanks for the advice. I have not worked for 9 years. I was diagnosed

initially with CFS. Since seeing my LLMD last year I am finally seeing

improvement but hit a plateau this year. He suspected the spirochete was

encapsulated and I have say he was right based upon my reaction to the

flagyl.

I am also working with a natural pracitioner who uses " Monestary of Herbs "

products and they gave me a massive die off reaction. I realize all of this

is evidence of something good occurring but it is hell.

It is interesting that you mention the nerve endings. One night when I

touched a bone in my right foot I had such pain.Guess that has to do with

the pH thing you mentioned. Also pain in my right hand along with headaches

and I just feel " spacey " . I have never felt like this so it is somewhat

frightening.

Phil

[Guest guest]

Its a Rx med from dr, abx.

[ ] Flagyl

>

>

> I just had my first experience with flagyl and feel like an

atomic bomb went off in my body. My LLMD had me start with one and

increase up to 3 to get a herx. He thinks the spirochette has

encapsulated.

[Guest guest]

> Can you tell me what is flagyl herx and is it from a doctor or

health store

Sure! It's just another antibiotic, often prescribed for urinary

tract infections. The generic name is Metronidazole. It's the one

you should NEVER drink alcohol with.......for like 2-3 days before

you start and 3 days after you stop. You get a horrid interaction

that makes you VERY sick and puke like crazy if you do. It's similar

to that medication called Antabuse that they give to alcoholics to

keep them from breaking their sobriety.

Hope that helps!

Nurse Deb

[Guest guest]

Phil,

Thanks for the memory jog. It sounds like your doc is on top of

things.............I think that many docs, even some LLMD's, don't

pay enough attention to those encapsulated critters. Patient

compliance is also a big problem because Flagyl is such a difficult

drug to tolerate. It is especially helpful to the yeastie beasties.

Candida probs with Flagyl are often much worse than with other

antibiotics.

Here is a link to the actual package insert. It does mention some

CNS side effects like incoordination, confusion, irritability,

peripheral neuropathy, seizures........doesn't actually come out and

say SPACEY, but just the die-off alone can make you feel spaced out.

Your brain is full of toxins created when the Bb are zapped. So

you've got embedded Bb., dead Bb., and the neurotoxins, throw in some

yeast, and any other medications you might be taking and I can see

" S-P-A-C-Y " going on. <grin> Hey, spacey might actually be an

improvement from brain-dead! Don't mean to minimize your concern -

it IS scary when our body surprises us..........especially after

spending so much time together.

Hang in there, and welcome back. I've been away, too. Did IV

Rocephin over the summer and although it helped tremendously with my

arthritis in my hip (got to get rid of the cane! Yippee!) I feel more

debilitated than before. No energy, can't sleep, been sittin' on

the " pitty potty " .......

But I'm tired of that so I'm trying real hard to get outside each

day - gonna prune me roses before we get our first frost/freeze down

here in Texas. And that has helped a lot. Lifts my spirits. Good

surroundings to meditate/pray. Plus I'm finally off the Doxy and can

go outside again - had to spend most of the last 8 months hiding from

the brutal sun here. It's a balmy 68 degrees this afternoon and all

the trees are turning, finally. We've had lots of rain so the colors

are better than usual. Try it! And it is good to hear from you

again. It amazes me how many connections there really are on this

list. I'm glad you got lots of replies and feel supported.

Since I've been " officially " disabled 2 1/2 years.......the more I

stay in my house the harder it gets for me to leave it, ya know? Do

you feel this? But I refuse to give in completely to this dang

disease. Being disabled has allowed me to spend more time with my

child, be more involved at his school and with his teachers, to slow

down and " smell the roses " ........to dig in the dirt a little if I

feel up to it.

Well, I've worn myself out today so I'm going to take a nap. Click

on this link and it will bring up the package insert in PDF. The

writing is so tiny that I enlarged it to 125%, but it might just be

my eyes.

Take Care,

Deb

http://www.pharmacia.com/products/pdf/Flagyl.pdf