Acetaminophen

[Guest guest]

Antoinette,

Tylenol (acetominophen) is a very definite NO-NO for

hepC patients. Our doctor recommended that Pat use

Ibuprophen, or aspirin, on ocassion.

I'm glad you and hubby are finally talking. Denial

may help for awhile, but eventually it is imperative

for you to talk about how you're both feeling and

coping with this disease. Keep up the good work.

Jeanie

--- the14th_moon@... wrote:

> Thank God for all of you. This group has helped me

> become more

> proactive in my husbands disease. He was diagnosed

> last year and we

> just never talk about it. Denial, denial. Anyway

> since I found you

> guys we have started talking.

>

> Question...we have been given mixed info from drs.

> regarding over the

> counter pain meds. Is acetaminophen safe? What is

> good for headaches

> and minor aches and pains of getting old and paying

> for being crazy when

> he was young.

>

> I pray for all of you and yours.

>

> Antoinette

>

>

>

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__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Read this report on Ibuprofen. I've heard that if you must take something

occasionally Acetaminophen was OK and that was by doctors. The Rebetron kit

even comes with several packages of A. in it.

IBUPROFEN WARNING

Dr. Riley III, the medical director for the liver transplant program

at the Milton S. Hershey Medical Center at the Penn State Geinsinger Health

System ways that patients with chronic hepatitis C experience a 10-fold rise

in their enzymes after taking ibuprofen, suggesting significant liver

injury.

He added that if too much medication is taken the patient risks speeding up

the process of going from chronic hepatitis to cirrhosis of the liver.

Dr. Riley has an article in the September issue of the American Journal of

Gastroenterology.

IBUPROFEN-INDUCED HEPATOTOXICITY IN PATIENTS WITH CHRONIC HEPATITIS C

Hepatitis C is a common chronic infection. Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory

drugs are commonly ingested both over-the-counter and by prescription. This

case report describes three cases where ibuprofen use leads to a marked rise

in hepatitic transaminases with one case repeating on rechallenge. These

cases support the recommendation of acetaminophen over Nonsteroidal

anti-inflammatory drug use in patients with chronic hepatitis C.

AUTHOR: Riley TR 3rd, JP, Penn State Geisinger Health System, The

Milton S. Hershey Medical Center, The Pennsylvania State University,

Department of Medicine, Hershey 17033-0850, USA

SOURCE: Am J Gastroenterol 1998 Sep; 93(9) 1563-1565

PREVENTIVE CARE IN CHRONIC LIVER DISEASE

J Gen Intern Med 1999 Nov, 14 (11): 699-704

Preventive Care in Chronic Liver Disease

Riley TR, JP

Objective: To identify preventive care measures that are appropriate for and

specific to patients with chronic liver disease and to provide

recommendations and information that can be shared with patients.

Measurements: A review of the literature was undertaken using MEDLINE from

1970 to present. Priority was given to randomized controlled studies, but

case reports, case-control studies, and reviews were included.

Bob Simons

bsimons@...

Royal Rangers

Outpost 48

Tucson, AZ.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/16/00 6:41:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

quinlyn1@... writes:

Tylenol (acetominophen) is a very definite NO-NO for

hepC patients. Our doctor recommended that Pat use

Ibuprophen, or aspirin, on ocassion.

*****

My Gastro told me to take NO advil (ibuprophen)..but I could take an

occasional tylenol (acetominaphen)

confused,

debmc

[Guest guest]

I was told my husband could take advil or the likes of IN MODERATION that

is the key word here I think, Irish

[Guest guest]

I have also read that acetaminophen is okay now and then and is not

considered to be as much of a problem as most of the other NSAIDs.

Merril

[Guest guest]

I think that makes two of us that are confused. I wish I could find an

anti-inflammatory that was " safe " .

Carol

Re: acetaminophen

In a message dated 4/16/00 6:41:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

quinlyn1@... writes:

Tylenol (acetominophen) is a very definite NO-NO for

hepC patients. Our doctor recommended that Pat use

Ibuprophen, or aspirin, on ocassion.

*****

My Gastro told me to take NO advil (ibuprophen)..but I could take an

occasional tylenol (acetominaphen)

confused,

debmc

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[Guest guest]

That one is news to me Merril. But then who knows

what to believe?? One doctor say one thing and

another says something else. Is it any wonder we are

all confused????? (Or is it just me?) LOL

Jeanie

--- Merril <allennco@...> wrote:

> I have also read that acetaminophen is okay now and

> then and is not

> considered to be as much of a problem as most of the

> other NSAIDs.

>

> Merril

>

>

>

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__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Geez, I've been reading all the info on acetaminphen and hep-c, which I have

(chronic) and my Dr. gives me Tylenol 4's with Codeine. Yikes!!!! Is he a

nut? Janet

[Guest guest]

I have found a very good site for hepC called hepatitis neighborhood.

The following excerpt is from the message board there. The response is

from a pharmacist.

ibuprofen vs. Acetaminophen

1 Replies Posted by: odaat1212 on 11/05/99 at 11:34 PM

My husband has HepC and is on the combination therapy.

I've heard different views on whether to take Advil or

Tylenol before getting the injection. Which one should he

take?

RE: ibuprofen vs. Acetaminophen

0 Replies Posted by: Neighborhood Pharm on 11/08/99 at

06:04 PM

Unless you have been advised otherwise by your

physician, you may take tylenol in the recommended doses

only... not exceeding the advised amount per the

packaging.

Merril

[Guest guest]

From what I have been told that is like giving someone alcohol. you shuld

really check this out Irish

[Guest guest]

Irish----Thanks ---- Janet

[Guest guest]

Thanks Merril. There's nothing like a l;ittle clarity

in our cloudy world.

Hugs,

Jeanie

--- Merril <allennco@...> wrote:

> I have found a very good site for hepC called

> hepatitis neighborhood.

>

> The following excerpt is from the message board

> there. The response is

> from a pharmacist.

>

>

>

>

> ibuprofen vs. Acetaminophen

>

>

> 1 Replies Posted by: odaat1212 on

> 11/05/99 at 11:34 PM

> My husband has HepC and is on the combination

> therapy.

> I've heard different views on whether to take

> Advil or

> Tylenol before getting the injection. Which

> one should he

> take?

>

>

>

>

>

> RE: ibuprofen vs. Acetaminophen

>

>

> 0 Replies Posted by: Neighborhood

> Pharm on 11/08/99 at

> 06:04 PM

> Unless you have been advised otherwise

> by your

> physician, you may take tylenol in the

> recommended doses

> only... not exceeding the advised amount

> per the

> packaging.

>

> Merril

>

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hey Jeanie....

have I hugged you today?????

if not, here goes.... <<<<<<<HUG>>>>>>>

BTW, I did an ask the pharmacist.....let you know when I get the

response...

M:^)

[Guest guest]

Yes, you hugged me, and believe me I felt it.

Here's one back for you <<<<<<<HUG>>>>>>>

>

Thanks too, for asking the pharmacist. I look forward

to the response. Pat's doctors emphatically said NO

TYLENOL, ever.

Jeanie

--- Merril <allennco@...> wrote:

> Hey Jeanie....

> have I hugged you today?????

>

> if not, here goes.... <<<<<<<HUG>>>>>>>

>

> BTW, I did an ask the pharmacist.....let you know

> when I get the

> response...

>

> M:^)

>

>

>

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__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Never thought you were endorsing anything,just that I have been told it is a

NO NO So I am passing on what I was told. You are right about the Doc's they

don't seem to know a hell of a lot and neither do we, so we have to use our

best judgment, isn't that why we are here to learn from each other??? Any

insight is better than NONE at least that's how I see it. Thanks for the help

ALL Irish

[Guest guest]

Hey gang....

Sorry if what I posted seemed like I was endorsing acetaminophen.

Didn't intend to do that. Was just passing on some info I found. Docs

never agree on anything and the patient is usually caught in between. I

have even had docs practicing in the same group tell me different things

and change each others orders!!!

Bottom line is that each of us has to do what we believe is the right

thing to do OR do what our physician has said to do.

Sorry if it sounded otherwise....

Merril

[Guest guest]

Hi Merril,

It didn't sound like you were endorsing anything, I thought you were just

putting info out there that you had found for us to consider. I always

appreciate it when you do that.

Have a good evening:-)

Carol

Re: acetaminophen

> Hey gang....

>

> Sorry if what I posted seemed like I was endorsing acetaminophen.

> Didn't intend to do that. Was just passing on some info I found. Docs

> never agree on anything and the patient is usually caught in between. I

> have even had docs practicing in the same group tell me different things

> and change each others orders!!!

>

> Bottom line is that each of us has to do what we believe is the right

> thing to do OR do what our physician has said to do.

>

> Sorry if it sounded otherwise....

>

> Merril

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Carol....

Hope things are going well where you are... *S*

Merril

[Guest guest]

>And here's some natural anti-inflammatories: Ginger, boswellia, fish

oils, bromelain, CMO, Evening primrose, black currant and borage

oils, cayenne cream

I take a lot of fresh ginger. One warning, though, it is also a blood

thinner and can amplify the effects of any prescribed blood thinner. It is

recommended to stop ingesting it prior to any procedures where bleeding may

be an issue. All the " g " herbs, incidentally, that are blood thinners.

Garlic, ginseng, gingko, and ginger.

Another great anti inflammatory is turmeric. Milk thistle is specific for

inflammatory liver problems.

[Guest guest]

>

" Taking more than the recommended amount in a day quickly moves

> towards a tipping point where liver damage can occur. This may

happen by

> taking too much Tylenol in a 6 hour period for an period of time.

More

> frequently, it happens when someone is taking a max dose of

Tylenol, than

> takes another medicine like Excedrin, not realizing that Excedrin

ALSO has

> acetaminophen and the effect is to cause an overdose. Other drugs

also may

> have acetaminophen so reading labels is essential.

>

> Alcohol or other drugs that damage the liver along with Tylenol

leverages

> out the effect and can induce liver damage even if in recommended

doseage. "

Thanks, Mark, for posting this. I've read the same thing--that some

take two different sources of acetominophin and don't realize it.

From Hepatology 12/05; 42(6): 1364-1372 and EurekAlert 11/29/05:

Acetominophin poisoning is now the most common cause of acute liver

failure in the US. Almost half are the result of unintentional

overdose.

Examining the case histories of almost 700 liver-failure patients

they found that 63% who accidentally overdosed used a prescription

acetominophin compound while 38% had been taking two acetominophin

meds at the same time.

The data suggests that as little as 7.5 grams of acetominophin a day

may be hazardous. Rather than resulting in chronic illness,

acetominophin injury has a threshold of safety that, when exceeded,

can have immediate and devastating results.

And here's some natural anti-inflammatories: Ginger, boswellia, fish

oils, bromelain, CMO, Evening primrose, black currant and borage

oils, cayenne cream. Also, experts believe that acetominophin causes

its damage by depleting your body of glutathione. Anyone who

overdoses receives large doses of N-acetyl cysteine (NAC) in the

emergency room. NAC is a precursor of glutathione and helps restore

glutathione. (Mercury also depletes the body of glutathione,

incidentally.)

>

> " I am very up to speed on this as I have compensated liver cirrhosis

with

> ascites and some varices, which is secondary to chronic active

hepatitus C

> virus. I got the HCV during the late 1960s while making some bad

choices

> about illegal drug use. I have been clean and sober for 30+ years

but the

> virus doesn't care. I have been screened for the liver transplant

list and

> am eligible and will officially be on it, only needing to get a

tooth pulled

> to finish up the process. Then, the waiting. "

I am sorry to hear this. It's always sad when bad choices result in

problems. Some get by unscathed and some don't. Like Russian

Roulette. At least you can help others (especially teenagers and pre-

teens with your experience). I hope you can get your liver

transplant.

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

" Taking more than the recommended amount in a day quickly moves

> towards a tipping point where liver damage can occur. This may

happen by

> taking too much Tylenol in a 6 hour period for an period of time.

More

> frequently, it happens when someone is taking a max dose of

Tylenol, than

> takes another medicine like Excedrin, not realizing that Excedrin

ALSO has

> acetaminophen and the effect is to cause an overdose. Other drugs

also may

> have acetaminophen so reading labels is essential.

>

> Alcohol or other drugs that damage the liver along with Tylenol

leverages

> out the effect and can induce liver damage even if in recommended

doseage. "

Thanks, Mark, for posting this. I've read the same thing--that some

take two different sources of acetominophin and don't realize it.

From Hepatology 12/05; 42(6): 1364-1372 and EurekAlert 11/29/05:

Acetominophin poisoning is now the most common cause of acute liver

failure in the US. Almost half are the result of unintentional

overdose.

Examining the case histories of almost 700 liver-failure patients

they found that 63% who accidentally overdosed used a prescription

acetominophin compound while 38% had been taking two acetominophin

meds at the same time.

The data suggests that as little as 7.5 grams of acetominophin a day

may be hazardous. Rather than resulting in chronic illness,

acetominophin injury has a threshold of safety that, when exceeded,

can have immediate and devastating results.

And here's some natural anti-inflammatories: Ginger, boswellia, fish

oils, bromelain, CMO, Evening primrose, black currant and borage

oils, cayenne cream. Also, experts believe that acetominophin causes

its damage by depleting your body of glutathione. Anyone who

overdoses receives large doses of N-acetyl cysteine (NAC) in the

emergency room. NAC is a precursor of glutathione and helps restore

glutathione. (Mercury also depletes the body of glutathione,

incidentally.)

>

> " I am very up to speed on this as I have compensated liver cirrhosis

with

> ascites and some varices, which is secondary to chronic active

hepatitus C

> virus. I got the HCV during the late 1960s while making some bad

choices

> about illegal drug use. I have been clean and sober for 30+ years

but the

> virus doesn't care. I have been screened for the liver transplant

list and

> am eligible and will officially be on it, only needing to get a

tooth pulled

> to finish up the process. Then, the waiting. "

I am sorry to hear this. It's always sad when bad choices result in

problems. Some get by unscathed and some don't. Like Russian

Roulette. At least you can help others (especially teenagers and pre-

teens with your experience). I hope you can get your liver

transplant.

>

>

[Guest guest]

When going through one of the hardest times in my life I wrote a

poem and described the meaning behind it. I'd like to share it with

you.

Slow Suicide

You search for the limit,

reach for the top.

Your brain is a mess,

the drugs won't stop.

You say that it feels right,

bringing the pleasure.

Your actions cause hurt,

there is no measure.

You are alone now,

what can I say.

You hope for an end,

to die this way.

Loving someone with an addiction feels like watching them step into

a pool of quicksand. You can hold their hand, trying to help as

they stuggle and sink. Some will slap that hand away, choosing to

drown, others tighten their grip, asking for you to pull. I thank

God that I was asked to pull.

> >

> > If at times I seem preachy against illegal drug and alcohol use,

> please

> > forgive my intolerance but I really really really thik they are

bad

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>> " I will admit I drink too much, I drink for many reasons - it is a

> habit - it is wrong - I am self medicating - I haven't found anything

> as of yet that can replace the role alchol plays. For me alchol stops

> my mind racing - it numbs things - I really dislike this world at

> times and reality is painful - I am just giving a personal opinion

> and being honest here and hope I will not be condemned for it. "

I say it's a tough world and people wouldn't need crutches it the world

was good and our lives were as they should be. Finding the healthiest

ways to deal with things is always the best way and then you can move

on a stronger person (while keeping your health). I used food as a

crutch and developed an eating disorder and an addiction to sugar. I

got over it and got stronger and deal with things in a healthy way but

it can still be hard. Sometimes I feel like I'm in a boxing match

trying not to get knocked down. Like a punchdrunk boxer with

determination I grit my teeth and tell

myself, 'Keep...standing...up...do...not...fall'

[Guest guest]

>

>>

> Loving someone with an addiction feels like watching them step into

> a pool of quicksand. You can hold their hand, trying to help as

> they stuggle and sink. Some will slap that hand away, choosing to

> drown, others tighten their grip, asking for you to pull. I thank

> God that I was asked to pull.

What a helpless feeling. It is good you were asked to pull.

>

>

[Guest guest]

This is just an opinion, but I have noticed that the taking of drugs

and the imbibing of copious amounts of alcohol seems fairly

prevelant among folks on Aspie forums. This suggests either

A) Aspies can a bit more freely publicly admit to such use than non-

Aspies can, or

Aspies have a higher incidence of drug and alcohol abuse than non-

Aspies.

Alternatively, it is a combination of the two.

As much as Aspies like to keep isolated from other people when and

if they can, since most Aspies are very deep and introspective, I

believe that perhaps they feel the presence of or lack of love

moreso than non-Aspies.

After all, people who are seldom loved are the ones most likely to

understand love's meaning and worth.

I would posit that lack of love -true, unadulterated love- is what

leads people to turn to other things that act as mind-blotting

substitute so that they do not have to feel this vast black hole in

their lives.

For me personally, serving God seems to fill that black hole

substantially, and when I am TRULY serving God in some capacity,

giving and receiving love, while nice, seems to be a thing of

secondary importance to me.

Long-time members of this forum will know that I have faced a number

of trials and tribulations in my life which could have easily caused

me to be driven to drinking and drugs. Yet God keeps me going, as

does the love I find here and there along the way.

That is not to say I am immune from depression. I certainly do

experience it. But when I have my head screwed on straight, God and

love seem to be my " uppers " and they give me all I need.

Tom

Administrator

I am in no way for drugs, but I think one needs to ask why people

take them; what is missing in their lives? Why do they need drugs?

What role are the drugs playing? Can that role be fulfilled by

something else?

It is too easy to sit and condemn people who take drugs (I do not

btw) without finding the reasons why - these are people, humans with

thoughts and feelings.

I will admit I drink too much, I drink for many reasons - it is a

habit - it is wrong - I am self medicating - I haven't found anything

as of yet that can replace the role alchol plays. For me alchol stops

my mind racing - it numbs things - I really dislike this world at

times and reality is painful - I am just giving a personal opinion

and being honest here and hope I will not be condemned for it.