Guest guest Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 well, they have good diagnostic methods and its private, so commercial but I have costs for the treatment and its far to what you say, some czech people have been undergoing the treatment there. It seems like first week costs you some 1200 Euro, second some 900 Euro which is not that bad and you know that you are everyday under supervison of lyme aware doctors. For me it was very difficult to deal with scary herxes that I had and I was really affarid on what is going on. I had that blood pressure drops and sudden increase, heart bets and so on, difficult breathing and many more and being alone with doctors who just say there is nothing like herx after 5 weeks or whatever and just think you are crazy...I do not have big troubles with money but you know its always good to save :-) I do not know if their results are that fantastic but they claim that 60% of their patients cured from lyme disease, some had some improvement and very few did not react. Dr. Bozsimclaims that he can cure 95% of people with his schedule. Tehy followed 254 patients for 5 years. He says that after first round (6-8 or sometimes 10 weeks) 54% of people got cured, 27% on 2 cures and so on. I also am not sure, but he has been prescribing his prtocol for around 20 years. HE just added flagyl in 2005 after discussions with Brorsons. I think its reallys trong and agressive treatment but too mch for someone overloaded by coinfections. Its first time I hear that Dutch people come to Czech to get tehir lyme treated as the treatment here is 200 mg doxy for maximum 3 weeks, and if loquor is possitive then 3 weeks of IV ceftriaxon, if you are lucky you get it with 800 mg of flagyl. Doctors here just do not know and they do not want to prescribe ling term ABX. Its really first time I hear that. M ________________________________ From: knot_weed <tek0nik@...> Sent: Thu, March 10, 2011 9:59:28 PM Subject: [ ] Augsburg > > > Or there is specialized clinic in GErmany in Augsburg where they treat lyme > acording to ILADS and holistic system, they use both ABX and herbs so maybe I > will stay there. It costs momey but ... I have heard from a few Dutch people who went there mostly for diagnosis, and have had some discussions about the treatment regimens. It looks VERY commercial to me, and they have several treatments that seem really fishy (very unscientific) to me. And yes, it all is VERY expensive, you can spend way over a thousand Euros per day there for all the therapies. They have glowing stories about their expertise and treatment results, but most of it sounds unbelievable, too good to be true. And nothing is independently published so ... if you don't care about the money it may be worth a try, but if you are short on money I think you could better spend it on something else like self-treatment with some help from a local doctor that is willing to listen. P.S.: some Dutch patients go to Czechoslovakia for Lyme treatment ... at least one can get longterm ABX treatment there (and for relatively low cost), in Netherlands this is very difficult (and getting more difficult every year, just like UK/US). Maybe it is just that the grass always seems greener on the other side ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 > > For me it was very difficult to > deal with scary herxes that I had and I was really affarid on what is going on. I had the same experience in Netherlands, being one of the first patients that my neurologist was 'experimenting' on with many weeks of IV rocephing etc. (officially 2 weeks is the maximum here). I had an allergic reaction to the IV rocephin after 10 days; this is extremely scary, similar to anaphylactic shock that some people get from wasp sting. Fortunately there was an experienced nurse available to give me an injection, otherwise it could have been deadly > I do not know if their results are that fantastic but they claim that 60% of > their patients cured from lyme disease, some had some improvement and very few > did not react. on Dutch TV they said that over 90% was cured ... 60% sounds more credible, depending on how you define cure. Also it depens on how many of these are 'early' cases. Most early patients get cured whatever the treatment IMHO. It is the chronic cases that are tough, for those even 60% cure sounds pretty unlikely to me. > Dr. Bozsimclaims that he can cure 95% of people with his > schedule. Tehy followed 254 patients for 5 years. He says that after first round > (6-8 or sometimes 10 weeks) 54% of people got cured, 27% on 2 cures and so on. I > also am not sure, but he has been prescribing his prtocol for around 20 years. I have heard about it, but it is unpublished. That is a problem ... Also, such intensive ABX courses are totally unacceptable over here. So even if it works, it would never be approved. In Netherlands, ABX are for healthy farm animals only ;( > HE just added flagyl in 2005 after discussions with Brorsons. I think its > reallys trong and agressive treatment but too mch for someone overloaded by > coinfections. yes, you have to start slowly. My neurologist didn't know that and gave me the full dose right away. Wrong again ... But at least he learns from the experience, he is now more careful. Flagyl is potentially damaging to DNA and carcinogenic. So I would consider it an option for difficult cases only. > Its first time I hear that Dutch people come to Czech to get tehir lyme treated > as the treatment here is 200 mg doxy for maximum 3 weeks, and if loquor is > possitive then 3 weeks of IV ceftriaxon, if you are lucky you get it with 800 mg > of flagyl. Doctors here just do not know and they do not want to prescribe ling > term ABX. Its really first time I hear that. several people had over a month treatment there; from what I remember probably in a state hospital, not a private clinic. I think the issue was that in Netherlands you get a maximum of 2 weeks rocephin for one time only. They don't want to repeat the treatment. Most patients feel much better after the IV rocephin, but relapse after some weeks of months. I can imagine people want a new treatment when they relapse, even if you have to travel to Chech for that. I think some of them got compensated for the costs by the Dutch health insurance (czech is several times cheaper than treatment in Netherlands, so I guess they don't have a problem with this medical tourism ...). PS: there is an ILADS meeting in Augsburg in May, where the treatment programs of the Augsburg clinic play a prominent role: http://www.ilads.org/lyme_programs/lyme_events_german.html this is primarily for doctors, not for patients. I'm not so happy with this, as some of the treatments like 'color therapy' are very unscientific. ILAD seems to approve these treatments by discussing them in their symposium. They are skating on thin ice with this IMHO, could be damaging to their scientific credibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 I beieve it can be possible at MOtol hospital where Doc, BOjar works. I was hospitalized there few days back. But for him Bozisks results are untrustful and he can not give me Rocephin unless I have positive liquor. Today he phoned me that I was negative for borelia in their lab, now they wait for Hulinska results, but he thinks I do not have borelia. I have positive yersinia and chlamydia... In Augsburg they claim this: Lyme disease is curable, even for the predominant number of chronic cases (> 70%) and also for those disease patterns which have been existing for years. The BCA article Lyme disease, the tick-borne disease is curable in most cases - The BCA helps chronically ill patients suffering from Lyme disease with a holistic approach to therapy - (Download) gives an overview. Here you will find further information about the Lyme disease stages and the symptoms of the disease (Link). Bozsik protocol is hardly acceptable anywhere for its length, strength and use of qionolones. Its really tough or maybe it was just for me as it hit all three bugs at once. M ________________________________ From: knot_weed <tek0nik@...> Sent: Fri, March 11, 2011 8:41:07 PM Subject: [ ] Re: Augsburg > > For me it was very difficult to > deal with scary herxes that I had and I was really affarid on what is going on. > I had the same experience in Netherlands, being one of the first patients that my neurologist was 'experimenting' on with many weeks of IV rocephing etc. (officially 2 weeks is the maximum here). I had an allergic reaction to the IV rocephin after 10 days; this is extremely scary, similar to anaphylactic shock that some people get from wasp sting. Fortunately there was an experienced nurse available to give me an injection, otherwise it could have been deadly > I do not know if their results are that fantastic but they claim that 60% of > their patients cured from lyme disease, some had some improvement and very few > did not react. on Dutch TV they said that over 90% was cured ... 60% sounds more credible, depending on how you define cure. Also it depens on how many of these are 'early' cases. Most early patients get cured whatever the treatment IMHO. It is the chronic cases that are tough, for those even 60% cure sounds pretty unlikely to me. > Dr. Bozsimclaims that he can cure 95% of people with his > schedule. Tehy followed 254 patients for 5 years. He says that after first >round > > (6-8 or sometimes 10 weeks) 54% of people got cured, 27% on 2 cures and so on. >I > > also am not sure, but he has been prescribing his prtocol for around 20 years. I have heard about it, but it is unpublished. That is a problem ... Also, such intensive ABX courses are totally unacceptable over here. So even if it works, it would never be approved. In Netherlands, ABX are for healthy farm animals only ;( > HE just added flagyl in 2005 after discussions with Brorsons. I think its > reallys trong and agressive treatment but too mch for someone overloaded by > coinfections. yes, you have to start slowly. My neurologist didn't know that and gave me the full dose right away. Wrong again ... But at least he learns from the experience, he is now more careful. Flagyl is potentially damaging to DNA and carcinogenic. So I would consider it an option for difficult cases only. > Its first time I hear that Dutch people come to Czech to get tehir lyme treated > > as the treatment here is 200 mg doxy for maximum 3 weeks, and if loquor is > possitive then 3 weeks of IV ceftriaxon, if you are lucky you get it with 800 >mg > > of flagyl. Doctors here just do not know and they do not want to prescribe ling > > term ABX. Its really first time I hear that. several people had over a month treatment there; from what I remember probably in a state hospital, not a private clinic. I think the issue was that in Netherlands you get a maximum of 2 weeks rocephin for one time only. They don't want to repeat the treatment. Most patients feel much better after the IV rocephin, but relapse after some weeks of months. I can imagine people want a new treatment when they relapse, even if you have to travel to Chech for that. I think some of them got compensated for the costs by the Dutch health insurance (czech is several times cheaper than treatment in Netherlands, so I guess they don't have a problem with this medical tourism ...). PS: there is an ILADS meeting in Augsburg in May, where the treatment programs of the Augsburg clinic play a prominent role: http://www.ilads.org/lyme_programs/lyme_events_german.html this is primarily for doctors, not for patients. I'm not so happy with this, as some of the treatments like 'color therapy' are very unscientific. ILAD seems to approve these treatments by discussing them in their symposium. They are skating on thin ice with this IMHO, could be damaging to their scientific credibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 > > > In Augsburg they claim this: > Lyme disease is curable, even for the predominant number of chronic cases (> > 70%) and also for those disease patterns which have been existing for years. yes, but there is no proof of that; too much marketing, very little scientific (objective) facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 well, its private so they need some advertisement but I belive they are trying their best, combining different approaches and following newest trends in treatment. At least they are trying to help and not just send you home with ADs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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