Re: Rib Cage Pain- Lyme or Co-infection?

March 29, 2011

>

> The one symptom that is not improving quite as much is costochondritis/rib

pain/lyme arthritis in the shoulder girdle. I am now wondering if this may be a

symptom of a co-infection.

Rib pain and arthritic pain in the big joints (usually one of them, e.g. not

both shoulders or knees) is a common Lyme (Borrelia) symptom. So I don't think

it is a reason to suspect coinfection.

> Has anyone transitioned from ABX to Buhner's herbal protocol with much

success? How long did it take you to make the switch?

I had to stop ABX after one year because of gal bladder, liver and gut damage. I

simply couldn't take them anymore. I made more progress on the Buhner herbs than

on ABX, but after several years I'm still not fully cured.

Treatment prognosis seems to depend on how long you had symptoms before you

started treatment. If there is more than 1-2 years between infection (first

symptoms) and start of treatment, the Lyme gets chronic and is difficult to

remove completely, even with prolonged use of ABX or herbs. I this case I think

you can at best hope for a delicate balance where most of the damage is

restored, and you can feel healthy as long as you stick to the right lifestyle,

avoid too much stress etc.

Having Lyme coinfections usually means that longer/stronger treatment is

necessary.

March 29, 2011

>

> Rib cage pain is usually due to Lyme - it likes joints and all kinds of soft

tissues. In general, I have found that it doesn't stay put, that these kinds of

symptoms wax and wane. - Robin

yes, every few days in a different spot ...

March 29, 2011

Yes, it does wax and wane and move around to different areas. Part of the reason

I think my ribs have been such a problem is that I was kicked in the ribs a few

months after my first symptoms started (heart racing, dysautomnia type issues)

and although the MD's at the time didn't see any damage, I think the bacteria

found a nice, weak place to hunker down.

In fact, the major rib pain didn't even start until 3-4 months after my early

symptoms. Hence, my symptoms were all over the place- ANS stuff, then GI, then

costochondritis and so on. Before diagnosis, I thought I had full blown

Fibromyalgia because I hurt EVERYWHERE all the time. All in all, it took me over

2 years to narrow it down and suspect Borrelia (with the help of a really wise

PT). I know this is a common story for many of us.

@Knotweed- So, if you don't think I should necessarily suspect a co-infection,

would it be counterproductive for me to try using Buhner's co-infection

protocols then? My LLMD treats for co-infections regardless, and doesn't test

unless you request it. I know he has a reason for it, but considering my track

record with ABX, it seems a risky proposition for me to take a heavy cocktail of

ABX " just in case " . I " feel " more comfortable giving the Crypto a try and slowly

transitioning to an herbal regimen.

Before diagnosis, I only used " alternative " practitioners like massage

therapists, rolfers, acupuncturists and NDs. I actually credit all the work with

keeping me from getting much, much worse. I agreed to take the ABX early on

because I was scared and many say that they are necessary for remission. I am

now finding that many have achieved remission without them!

I do follow a gluten free, sugar free, low grain, mostly organic diet and have

for some time. I consider myself to be a pretty " healthy " sick person!

I completely understand that this Borrelia infection means a lifestyle change

and can accept that with no worries. I do believe that I can get to a place

where I don't think about pain everyday, and that is a great place to start.

Thanks again for your replies!

> >

> > Rib cage pain is usually due to Lyme - it likes joints and all kinds of

soft tissues. In general, I have found that it doesn't stay put, that these

kinds of symptoms wax and wane. - Robin

>

> yes, every few days in a different spot ...

>

March 29, 2011

>

> @Knotweed- So, if you don't think I should necessarily suspect a co-infection,

would it be counterproductive for me to try using Buhner's co-infection

protocols then?

no not at all, if you have no problem taking them (and with the extra cost).

> My LLMD treats for co-infections regardless, and doesn't test unless you

request it. I know he has a reason for it, but considering my track record with

ABX, it seems a risky proposition for me to take a heavy cocktail of ABX " just

in case " . I " feel " more comfortable giving the Crypto a try and slowly

transitioning to an herbal regimen.

IMHO it is wise to assume coinfections if the symptoms suggest so, even if the

tests are negative. We all know the tests are unreliable and false negatives can

occur.

I'm less enthusiastic about using tough ABX treatments for people who never

noticed a tick byte and don't have proven Bb or tick coinfection, or other

obvious symptom specific to lyme (like EM, ACA etc.).

> I do follow a gluten free, sugar free, low grain, mostly organic diet and have

for some time. I consider myself to be a pretty " healthy " sick person!

yes, I think diet and other 'lifestyle changes' are important. Maybe even more

important sometimes than the ABX ...

March 29, 2011

Thanks,

That is what I was thinking. I figured I could give the herbs a try before I

commit to taking the ABX cocktail of Quinine/Clindamycin followed by Biaxin and

Plaquenil... just the sound of it makes me woozy!

I know that herbs are powerful and can also cause side effects, I just feel more

comfortable trying the least " harsh " medicine first.

If I don't improve, at least I will have tried!

I so appreciate the advice and quick responses. This is a great resource!

Kodai89rep

>

> I think you could give the herbal treatments for co-infections a try. If you

get a herx from the remedy then you probably do have that co-infection. That's

how my doctor tests for co-infections when the symptoms are there but the test