Re: painful soles

[Guest guest]

I also get painful soles - it is a symptom that has been with me since the onset

(April 2010). I did 1 month of doxy and then almost 5 mos of clarithromycin and

the painful soles lessened in intensity and frequency throughout the

clarithromycin until it was pretty much gone. However, when I stopped the

clarithromycin it was the first symptom to return. I started Buhner and again

this symptom started to recede however, I had to stop andrographis last week -

my doctor wants to see if it is causing my elevated liver enzymes - and again, a

day or two after stopping andrographis the foot symptoms started up again. So,

for me, it is definitely a symptom that is suppressed by antibiotics or the

andrographis.

Perhaps I will try garlic (Allicin? Allimax?) as a substitute for the

andrographis?

Also, I wanted to mention something a reflexologist said to me - I got a

treatment as a Christmas present. All the nerves in the body end in the feet,

and also the nerves in the feet are much more sensitive than nerves elsewhere in

the body. So it makes sense to me that a disease like Lyme that is messing in

general with the nerves (inflaming/irritating them) that it will show up as pain

in the feet. I've had two acupuncturists and an MD comment on the tightness in

the muscles in the arch of my foot (without me mentioning the pain to them

first). The pain I have is in the ball of my feet toward the bottom, and the top

of the arch of the foot. In reflexology this area corresponds to the organs

that are in the center of the body, like the liver, gallbladder and spleen.

I tested positive for Lyme (CDC positive) but negative for Bart (from Labcorp I

think, or quest).

[Guest guest]

>

> So, for me, it is definitely a symptom that is suppressed by antibiotics or

the andrographis.

that is interesting to hear. This suggests that the issue is inflammation, as

both the herbs and some ABX (doxy for certain, don't know about the other one)

are anti-inflammatory.

I don't exactly remember for myself, probably the pain started after stopping

ABX treatment, but the redness in the soles started almost at the same time I

started with IV ABX and Plaquenil. Maybe the redness and pain are different

issues.

> Perhaps I will try garlic (Allicin? Allimax?) as a substitute for the

andrographis?

yes, you could try that. Allicin is just one of the components of garlic. It is

assumed to be the major active component in garlic; however, I don't know if

allicin is the actual QS blocker. So if you want the QS action, it is probably

better to use real garlic (or freezedried garlic).

> The pain I have is in the ball of my feet toward the bottom, and the top of

the arch of the foot. In reflexology this area corresponds to the organs that

are in the center of the body, like the liver, gallbladder and spleen.

interesting again; I don't know much about Chinese medicine and acupuncture, but

they know a lot of things for sure. I did have liver and gallbladder problems as

a result of the ABX or the Lyme itself; I'm also suspecting thyroid or kidney

issues.

I have had pain in the ball and top of the arch of the feet over the last 1-2

years. My current MD, who knows almost nothing about Lyme, says that pain in the

top of the arch can be caused by mechanical stress around the joints ('flat

feet', when your muscles are not strong enough to keep an arch in the foot -

don't know the official english word for this). He suggested wearing special

shoes to cure the problem, but it went away without doing anything about 3-4

months.

Initially my pain was mostly in the soles though, not in a fixed spot but in the

connective tissue under the skin (difficult to tell where it is coming from...).

> I tested positive for Lyme (CDC positive) but negative for Bart (from Labcorp

I think, or quest).

OK, so that's similar to my situation.

[Guest guest]

interesting again; I don't know much about Chinese medicine and acupuncture, but

they know a lot of things for sure. I did have liver and gallbladder problems as

a result of the ABX or the Lyme itself; I'm also suspecting thyroid or kidney

issues.

-I had probems with livers without ATB, pain in under right rib, problems after

food and so on. On USG I was told maybe four times that I had steatosis and

hepatopathy, I had increased liver enxymes, tryacylglycerides and cholesterol. I

had terrible pain in same area after 3 weeks of ATb, Dr, Bozsi advied to use

Iscohcol to clean my galll bladder, it helped a lot and then I had no pain. Now,

after 7 and half week of strong oral ATB protocol (plus suplements like

vitamins, essentaile, silymarin), my livers are normal, no sign of steatosis or

hepatopathy, tryacyclglycerols are norlam, cholestrol is much lower,

althoughtstill high and liver enyzmes also normal (just ALT was still elevated

O,8, the norm 0,75).

[Guest guest]

Do you have lyme ?

Plaquenil is the best with fasigyn and flagyl ABX for borella as it is able to

attack also the cyst form of  lyme desease bacteria. it give a major dye off

and

conscutive herxeimer reaction meanse agravation due to the death of the

bacterias and the toxines they free while dying.

marie

________________________________

From: knot_weed <tek0nik@...>

Sent: Fri, March 11, 2011 4:08:07 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: painful soles

 

>

> So, for me, it is definitely a symptom that is suppressed by antibiotics or

the

>andrographis.

that is interesting to hear. This suggests that the issue is inflammation, as

both the herbs and some ABX (doxy for certain, don't know about the other one)

are anti-inflammatory.

I don't exactly remember for myself, probably the pain started after stopping

ABX treatment, but the redness in the soles started almost at the same time I

started with IV ABX and Plaquenil. Maybe the redness and pain are different

issues.

> Perhaps I will try garlic (Allicin? Allimax?) as a substitute for the

>andrographis?

yes, you could try that. Allicin is just one of the components of garlic. It is

assumed to be the major active component in garlic; however, I don't know if

allicin is the actual QS blocker. So if you want the QS action, it is probably

better to use real garlic (or freezedried garlic).

> The pain I have is in the ball of my feet toward the bottom, and the top of

the

>arch of the foot. In reflexology this area corresponds to the organs that are

in

>the center of the body, like the liver, gallbladder and spleen.

interesting again; I don't know much about Chinese medicine and acupuncture, but

they know a lot of things for sure. I did have liver and gallbladder problems as

a result of the ABX or the Lyme itself; I'm also suspecting thyroid or kidney

issues.

I have had pain in the ball and top of the arch of the feet over the last 1-2

years. My current MD, who knows almost nothing about Lyme, says that pain in the

top of the arch can be caused by mechanical stress around the joints ('flat

feet', when your muscles are not strong enough to keep an arch in the foot -

don't know the official english word for this). He suggested wearing special

shoes to cure the problem, but it went away without doing anything about 3-4

months.

Initially my pain was mostly in the soles though, not in a fixed spot but in the

connective tissue under the skin (difficult to tell where it is coming from...).

> I tested positive for Lyme (CDC positive) but negative for Bart (from Labcorp

I

>think, or quest).

OK, so that's similar to my situation.

[Guest guest]

Thanks - found this interesting article on garlic. So I will just eat more of

the real stuff (along with the extra Ginger and honey and coconut oil that I am

adding to my diet

http://www.healthy.net/asp/templates/interview.asp?PageType=Interview & ID=173

>

> > Perhaps I will try garlic (Allicin? Allimax?) as a substitute for the

andrographis?

>

> yes, you could try that. Allicin is just one of the components of garlic. It

is assumed to be the major active component in garlic; however, I don't know if

allicin is the actual QS blocker. So if you want the QS action, it is probably

better to use real garlic

[Guest guest]

>

> Do you have lyme ?

I have Borrelia (garinii) infection; tested negative for common coinfections.

> Plaquenil is the best with fasigyn and flagyl ABX for borella as it is able to

> attack also the cyst form of  lyme desease bacteria. it give a major dye off

and

> conscutive herxeimer reaction meanse agravation due to the death of the

> bacterias and the toxines they free while dying.

yes, that's the theory. But I'm not convinced, nobody really knows. Nobody has

proven that a 'Lyme herx' is the result of massive die-off of Bb bacteria, and

it should be relatively easy to prove that. Something is missing ...

Regarding Flagyl: it damages DNA (including our own, probably), that's its mode

of action. I think in the case of Bb the result can be 'explosive' because it

activates the prophage (bacteriophage) inside Borrelia, so you get kind of a

chain reaction killing the Bb's. But again, just theory.

Sam Donta thinks Plaquenil works by changing pH value in the cells, making them

more accessible for certain antibiotics. This makes it possible to kill

intracellular forms of Bb. That sounds like a good explanation to me, Plaquenil

in itself is not a 'killer', it must work indirectly.

[Guest guest]

Regarding plaquenyl brorsons proved in in vitro tests that plaquenyl intself is

directly demaging the cysts. But its in vitro...

The other effect is that it changes pH value-

Dr. Siveres is using plaquenyl for the same purpose as Donta does...

m

________________________________

From: knot_weed <tek0nik@...>

Sent: Sat, March 12, 2011 10:04:26 AM

Subject: [ ] Re: painful soles

>

> Do you have lyme ?

I have Borrelia (garinii) infection; tested negative for common coinfections.

> Plaquenil is the best with fasigyn and flagyl ABX for borella as it is able to

> attack also the cyst form of  lyme desease bacteria. it give a major dye off

>and

>

> conscutive herxeimer reaction meanse agravation due to the death of the

> bacterias and the toxines they free while dying.

yes, that's the theory. But I'm not convinced, nobody really knows. Nobody has

proven that a 'Lyme herx' is the result of massive die-off of Bb bacteria, and

it should be relatively easy to prove that. Something is missing ...

Regarding Flagyl: it damages DNA (including our own, probably), that's its mode

of action. I think in the case of Bb the result can be 'explosive' because it

activates the prophage (bacteriophage) inside Borrelia, so you get kind of a

chain reaction killing the Bb's. But again, just theory.

Sam Donta thinks Plaquenil works by changing pH value in the cells, making them

more accessible for certain antibiotics. This makes it possible to kill

intracellular forms of Bb. That sounds like a good explanation to me, Plaquenil

in itself is not a 'killer', it must work indirectly.

[Guest guest]

>

> Regarding plaquenyl brorsons proved in in vitro tests that plaquenyl intself

is

> directly demaging the cysts. But its in vitro...

> The other effect is that it changes pH value-

> Dr. Siveres is using plaquenyl for the same purpose as Donta does...

yes, all these tests (same for flagyl etc. etc.) are just in vitro and from one

research couple .. I value their work, but wouldn't put too much trust in it.

[Guest guest]

then what can we trust to?

________________________________

From: knot_weed <tek0nik@...>

Sent: Sun, March 13, 2011 11:25:48 AM

Subject: [ ] Re: painful soles

>

> Regarding plaquenyl brorsons proved in in vitro tests that plaquenyl intself

is

>

> directly demaging the cysts. But its in vitro...

> The other effect is that it changes pH value-

> Dr. Siveres is using plaquenyl for the same purpose as Donta does...

yes, all these tests (same for flagyl etc. etc.) are just in vitro and from one

research couple .. I value their work, but wouldn't put too much trust in it.

[Guest guest]

>

> Thanks - found this interesting article on garlic. So I will just eat more of

the real stuff (along with the extra Ginger and honey and coconut oil that I am

adding to my diet

> http://www.healthy.net/asp/templates/interview.asp?PageType=Interview & ID=173

>

> >

Good article, . I think I will go back on my garlic diet.

Thanks!

[Guest guest]

>

> then what can we trust to?

not much, trust your own experience and the doctors that are taking the time to

listen to you. Keep in mind that treatments may need local adaptations, because

the bugs and their habits may change with region.

If something doesn't work when you should have results (e.g. after some months

of treatment), try something else. And always keep an eye open for potential

other explanations, especially if you have coinfections.

There are a lot of solid biochemical and microbiological facts about Borrelia

nowadays, but most of that is not directly relevant for diagnosis/treatment, or

difficult to translate into treatment directions. We need much better research,

both regarding the cause of the disease (why do patients get ill from borrelia,

what is causing all these serious problems) and treatment (why are people not

getting better, especially with chronic lyme).