Re: Has anyone cured Bartonella naturally?

[Guest guest]

Hi Selma -- just did a search on lymenet for " bart hardynaka " and one entry

came up for May 2006, basically about Buhner herb use -- is that what you're

referring to re bart treatment? Thx -- Robin

**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.

http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

[Guest guest]

Ann, I did, and did that twice.

I mean, I got rid of bart once with a 'complicated' herbal treatment

that I wrote here and in lymenet (do a search). It looks complicated

(the schedule was hard) but it didn't cost much as it was done with

Chinese herbs mostly.

I was almost rid of it when I got reinfected, that's why I got to this

complicated treatment above.

then I got a small 'revival' some time ago, but it was easily

controlled (with Rizols and few herbs). I guess my biggest protocol is

what works for high loads of bart infection (at least, for me, it

worked).

Bart herxes are hard, so possibly, what you need were right cleansers?

Bart is also known to be resistant, and you need to be patient with it.

It's one of the last infections to go (after you got rid of bigger

pathogens like babesia, for example). At least, that's what dr. K

believes.

I hope you find my old post on bart.

Selma

>

> Am looking for a cure for bart. Tried MMS and ended up with

esophageal

> spasms, heartburn, gastritis, and a few heart palpations. Need some

> new ideas. Ann

>

[Guest guest]

Hi everybody, I just pulled my thread in lymenet up.

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?

ubb=get_topic & f=1 & t=057971#000013

I added new info on bart there.

Selma

-----------

For the ones who dont' visit lymenet, the initial thread from August

was:

Some people are writing me to ask what I took for bartonella. I'm

just copy-pasting what I wrote in Buhner's forum. Remember this

was 'created' by myself only using energetic testing (kinesiology).

I'm not a doctor.

I suffered from chronic bartonella since 2005, got reinfected

recently in May with acute bart.

I thought I got rid of it, but yesterday I went to my lyme doctor who

also does energetic testing (ART) and he couldn't find it initially.

I told him, 'check if they're not hiding'.

He couldn't find borrelia, nor bart, nor mycoplasma, babesia,

intestinal candida, nothing. He then checked at the back of my skull

and then found finally: bartonella, borrelia and ehrlichia. Nowhere

else in my body, he could find tick-born pathogens.

He was amazed to see how well I got, he said he thought I was going

to fall downwards after the recent reinfection. He said he's NEVER

seen someone with chronic lyme getting better so fast after

reinfection like I did. I feel great, I'm hiking and kayaking again!

My killing protocol was designed this time 100% by myself, only using

kinesiology.

Anyway, I'm still not rid of bart, still taking things for it, which

I'll add in the end of this copy-pasted post. I had it all over my

body, joints, muscles, now it's reduced to a small part of my body.

--------------

Here's then my bartonella protocol, aproximately:

- phellodendron, decoction 5-7 minutes: gets bart and many other

pathogens

- artemisia annua decoction (separate from other decoctions): about 3

teaspoons if I remember well: cook it for a while (about 5 minutes?):

it gets bart.

- astragalus test good against bart: I took decoctions and/ or

Planetary formula (about 1-2 pills a day)

- bee polen: gets bartonela (plus borrelia cysts and bab's cysts); I

took if I remember well, about 2-3 tea spoons a day diluted in water/

soya milk

- lonicerae caulis, decoction 7 minutes: gets bart and babesia (I

took it in the very end only)

- KMT program 1

- frozen garlic: 2 -3 a day (can't remember)

- amargo (rain-tree): gets bart, babesia and borrelia: I think I took

about 2 " 00 " capsules a day.

- immunomodulators that may help: cats claw, jap. knotweed

- isatis, folium & forsythia test good against bartonela, but I

didn't take these this time because phelodendron + frozen garlic +

lonicerae were good enough (I didn't need to add isatis/ forsythia).

Remember that I was my own 'doctor', so no one prescribed me these

stuff, I tested amounts by myself and showed to my doctor who told

me: " Go on " . He re-tested for me (ART) the new herbs I never had

taken before, phellodendron tested very good. I'm skinny and very

sensitive to herbs/ medicine, so 'normal' people would need more, I

guess.

Very 'constant' herbs in this second reinfection for me were

(including other pathogens, not only for bart though):

- cats claw, whole herb

- Japanese knotweed decoction

- phellodendron

- gardenia

- gervao (rain-tree)

These herbs tested good for a longer period of time (I'm now still on

cats claw, knotweed and gardenia). Andrographis didn't test good,

only for a few days!!! I took it more than a year for my first

borrelia infection and it kept testing good, but not this time!

Selma

-----------

Now (end of August 2007) what is testing against bartonella that I'm

taking is:

- Japanese knotweed decoction

- phellodendron decoction

- eleutherococcus in powder (2 teaspoons a day): gets most of the

infections indirectly (it's a profound tonic to the system)

Selma

[Guest guest]

I couldn't find that post either and would love to read it. I am

dealing with a persistent bart/Bb infection and have improved but need

to learn more about options as I want to go off the abx as soon as

reasonable.

Much thanks,

Craig

>

> Hi Selma -- just did a search on lymenet for " bart hardynaka " and one

entry

> came up for May 2006, basically about Buhner herb use -- is that what

you're

> referring to re bart treatment? Thx -- Robin

>

[Guest guest]

Craig, my protocol is again in this thread, just an answer above yours.

Just follow the thread.

Did you find it now?

Selma

>

> I couldn't find that post either and would love to read it. I am

> dealing with a persistent bart/Bb infection and have improved but need

> to learn more about options as I want to go off the abx as soon as

> reasonable.

>

>

> Much thanks,

> Craig

>

>

[Guest guest]

Selma,

I found it so interesting that your Dr. found Bart, Bb, and Erlichia

at the back of your head. I've had a rash at the back of my head off

and on during my course of Lyme. I always felt there was a

suspicious relationship w/the proximity to the spinal cord and brain

stem and all the neurologic symptoms I have.

This past month, after being absent for a long time, the rash came

back w/a vengeance. In a desperate attempt to get the itching to

stop, I applied droppers of boneset, pau d'arco, and stephania root

on the affected area and rubbed them into the bumps on my scalp at

the back of my neck.

Talk about a huge herx! The herx was almost immediate, and was

stronger than any herx I've had recently. This convinced me that the

rash was a physical manifestation of the bacteria. Since then I've

been applying the herbs twice a day in addition to taking them orally

and I've been getting progressively better. Another interesting

point is that after a number of days of this topical application, the

bumps started moving further down my neck to my shoulders, so I kept

applying the solutions to my shoulders and where ever the rash was.

At the same time, the rash was slowly disappearing.

In addition, I started rifing for Bart, and that seemed to increase

the herx, but in the last couple of days, my herxes are noticeably

less intense. The rash is almost completely gone. The last time I

rifed, I sensed almost no herx reaction. I'm going to keep at it

until it's all gone.

All this is on top of the abx I've been taking forever, it seems. I

think I'm going to be able to start eliminating my abx soon, at this

rate. 'bout time...

>

> Hi everybody, I just pulled my thread in lymenet up.

>

> http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?

> ubb=get_topic & f=1 & t=057971#000013

>

> I added new info on bart there.

>

> Selma

>

[Guest guest]

Patti, I hope you'll get rid of bart soon! Nasty infection! Bart for

me was always stronger in the brain.

I also attacked pathogens topically in my worst months, and I find

it's an excellent way to reach difficult areas or when I wanted

some 'direct' treatment.

I fully believe you can reach better some parts of your back/ head

rubbing stuff as I've felt the same many and many times while

applying essential oils all over my body.

Same goes for cleansing. In my desperation (before I could self

muscle test) while herxing a lot, I applied mixes of cleansing oils

through the skin and sometimes got a bliss after, soooo relaxing. I

find that the liver is a very 'easy' part to reach through the skin,

as well as the 'brain' and lymph system.

In lymenet, there's a naturopath that got into remission from

neurolyme mostly rubbing stuff on her skin (she's called Farah), and

I got lots of inspiration on her lovely mixtures!

I still use this rubbing approach to deal with simple colds (with my

husband/ daughter), rubbing killing/ cleansing oils close to

lymphatic nodes that are 'in trouble'. It helps, I feel.

Hope your bart herxes get continuously down, these are hard herxes!

Bart is very resistant, continue attacking it until you get

symptomless/ without herxes! Good luck!!! Keep us informed of your

progress!

Selma

>

> Selma,

>

> I found it so interesting that your Dr. found Bart, Bb, and Erlichia

> at the back of your head. I've had a rash at the back of my head

off

> and on during my course of Lyme. I always felt there was a

> suspicious relationship w/the proximity to the spinal cord and brain

> stem and all the neurologic symptoms I have.

>

> This past month, after being absent for a long time, the rash came

> back w/a vengeance. In a desperate attempt to get the itching to

> stop, I applied droppers of boneset, pau d'arco, and stephania root

> on the affected area and rubbed them into the bumps on my scalp at

> the back of my neck.

>

> Talk about a huge herx! The herx was almost immediate, and was

> stronger than any herx I've had recently. This convinced me that

the

> rash was a physical manifestation of the bacteria. Since then I've

> been applying the herbs twice a day in addition to taking them

orally

> and I've been getting progressively better. Another interesting

> point is that after a number of days of this topical application,

the

> bumps started moving further down my neck to my shoulders, so I kept

> applying the solutions to my shoulders and where ever the rash was.

> At the same time, the rash was slowly disappearing.

>

> In addition, I started rifing for Bart, and that seemed to increase

> the herx, but in the last couple of days, my herxes are noticeably

> less intense. The rash is almost completely gone. The last time I

> rifed, I sensed almost no herx reaction. I'm going to keep at it

> until it's all gone.

>

> All this is on top of the abx I've been taking forever, it seems. I

> think I'm going to be able to start eliminating my abx soon, at this

> rate. 'bout time...

>

>

[Guest guest]

Selma,

Do yout think it is the massage with or without the oils? Do you think lumps

under the skin could be colonies of sewlling from active colonies under the

skin? My sister, sorry to bring her up again, used massage to work out lumps

under her skin. I don't think this was just fibromyalgia, but could ticks here

and in Germany riding horses. She is a mystery. She really doe nt care what she

was. She thinks she knows what to do about it so end of story. She is not 100%,

but she is out and about living her life within a few limits. So???? I am very

much into essential oils, so I thank you for the reference! Sal

-------------- Original message --------------

From: " selmanaka " <hardynaka@...>

Patti, I hope you'll get rid of bart soon! Nasty infection! Bart for

me was always stronger in the brain.

I also attacked pathogens topically in my worst months, and I find

it's an excellent way to reach difficult areas or when I wanted

some 'direct' treatment.

I fully believe you can reach better some parts of your back/ head

rubbing stuff as I've felt the same many and many times while

applying essential oils all over my body.

Same goes for cleansing. In my desperation (before I could self

muscle test) while herxing a lot, I applied mixes of cleansing oils

through the skin and sometimes got a bliss after, soooo relaxing. I

find that the liver is a very 'easy' part to reach through the skin,

as well as the 'brain' and lymph system.

In lymenet, there's a naturopath that got into remission from

neurolyme mostly rubbing stuff on her skin (she's called Farah), and

I got lots of inspiration on her lovely mixtures!

I still use this rubbing approach to deal with simple colds (with my

husband/ daughter), rubbing killing/ cleansing oils close to

lymphatic nodes that are 'in trouble'. It helps, I feel.

Hope your bart herxes get continuously down, these are hard herxes!

Bart is very resistant, continue attacking it until you get

symptomless/ without herxes! Good luck!!! Keep us informed of your

progress!

Selma

>

> Selma,

>

> I found it so interesting that your Dr. found Bart, Bb, and Erlichia

> at the back of your head. I've had a rash at the back of my head

off

> and on during my course of Lyme. I always felt there was a

> suspicious relationship w/the proximity to the spinal cord and brain

> stem and all the neurologic symptoms I have.

>

> This past month, after being absent for a long time, the rash came

> back w/a vengeance. In a desperate attempt to get the itching to

> stop, I applied droppers of boneset, pau d'arco, and stephania root

> on the affected area and rubbed them into the bumps on my scalp at

> the back of my neck.

>

> Talk about a huge herx! The herx was almost immediate, and was

> stronger than any herx I've had recently. This convinced me that

the

> rash was a physical manifestation of the bacteria. Since then I've

> been applying the herbs twice a day in addition to taking them

orally

> and I've been getting progressively better. Another interesting

> point is that after a number of days of this topical application,

the

> bumps started moving further down my neck to my shoulders, so I kept

> applying the solutions to my shoulders and where ever the rash was.

> At the same time, the rash was slowly disappearing.

>

> In addition, I started rifing for Bart, and that seemed to increase

> the herx, but in the last couple of days, my herxes are noticeably

> less intense. The rash is almost completely gone. The last time I

> rifed, I sensed almost no herx reaction. I'm going to keep at it

> until it's all gone.

>

> All this is on top of the abx I've been taking forever, it seems. I

> think I'm going to be able to start eliminating my abx soon, at this

> rate. 'bout time...

>

>

[Guest guest]

Creekhopper,

Sorry I didn't understand well your question below:

> Do yout think it is the massage with or without the oils?

?

When I apply the essential oils, I usually dont' do really 'massage',

I only rub (too lazy).

The 'lumps' under the skin, no idea what you're talking... I find

rashes/ skin manifestations very difficult to recognize, so even with

a photo, I wouldn't be sure of anything!

What essential oils do you usually use? And how? I couldn't stand

anything ingested, even highly diluted. Too strong for me. The only

way I could stand was rubbing, and I found them useful. But many lyme

sufferers can't stand strong smells.

My recipies came mostly from Farah from lymenet. She posts there now

sometimes and is a practioner. I also copy-pasted her posts here

months ago.

The most important thing that I became to trust to 'diagnose'

something are kinesiological tests (at least for me). So if you'd

like to know what is a skin lump or anything else, that's what I

would do first.

I usually don't have skin manifestations from lyme disease (except

for initial EM rash, and one rash later, and bartonella marks that

come and go).

My scalp was many times sensitive during lyme and I found rubbing

oils the most efficient thing to solve that (possibly pathogens

there?).

Sometimes I tried to reach my inner part of my knees rubbing

(arthritis). Or my liver, kidney, pancreas, etc, to clean, mostly.

That's basically how I used the oils. And also to stimulate

accupressure points.

Selma

> Selma,

>

> Do yout think it is the massage with or without the oils? Do you

think lumps under the skin could be colonies of sewlling from active

colonies under the skin? My sister, sorry to bring her up again, used

massage to work out lumps under her skin. I don't think this was just

fibromyalgia, but could ticks here and in Germany riding horses. She

is a mystery. She really doe nt care what she was. She thinks she

knows what to do about it so end of story. She is not 100%, but she

is out and about living her life within a few limits. So???? I am

very much into essential oils, so I thank you for the reference! Sal

>

[Guest guest]

Selma,

My sister used manipulation on hardened areas or tender areas under her skin. I

have them, many of them. I'm guessing thay are lyme or babesia? They are very

tender. Some feel like lymph nodes (sides of thighs). Others feel like knots

under the skin. She had swelling at the base of her skull that she massaged out

over a long period of time. She did not use oils. But she may not have lyme and

company,although she had severe and disabling dysautonomia. I am wondering if

the oils matter as much as the movement of fluid or stagnation or whatever, but

we may be talking about two totally different things. I have a little personal

store of essential oils as I really got into it in the past. For nerves,

anxiety, I use vetiver, ylang ylang with rose sometimes and in olive oil (which

makes a big difference for me, but that could be totally psychological, no

clue). It is very strong. For mucsle pain, I use rosemary, peppermint,

eucalyptus, lemon and lavender. Those are my favorites, both are

strong and I am really holding water and not getting better... so for what its

worth. I will look again for Farahs posts. Thank you. Sal

>>Creekhopper,

Sorry I didn't understand well your question below:

> Do yout think it is the massage with or without the oils?

?

When I apply the essential oils, I usually dont' do really 'massage',

I only rub (too lazy).

The 'lumps' under the skin, no idea what you're talking... I find

rashes/ skin manifestations very difficult to recognize, so even with

a photo, I wouldn't be sure of anything!

What essential oils do you usually use? And how? I couldn't stand

anything ingested, even highly diluted. Too strong for me. The only

way I could stand was rubbing, and I found them useful. But many lyme

sufferers can't stand strong smells.

My recipies came mostly from Farah from lymenet. She posts there now

sometimes and is a practioner. I also copy-pasted her posts here

months ago.

The most important thing that I became to trust to 'diagnose'

something are kinesiological tests (at least for me). So if you'd

like to know what is a skin lump or anything else, that's what I

would do first.

I usually don't have skin manifestations from lyme disease (except

for initial EM rash, and one rash later, and bartonella marks that

come and go).

My scalp was many times sensitive during lyme and I found rubbing

oils the most efficient thing to solve that (possibly pathogens

there?).

Sometimes I tried to reach my inner part of my knees rubbing

(arthritis). Or my liver, kidney, pancreas, etc, to clean, mostly.

That's basically how I used the oils. And also to stimulate

accupressure points.

Selma

[Guest guest]

Sal,

Thanks for more details. Sorry to know about your sister. Many people

with lyme are on denial, until they get totally disabled (sad story,

but it's more than common). But as you said, maybe it's not lyme. I

hope so!

I think I know what you mean about the soft/ tender areas but I'm not

sure I had hard knots. I think I never got hard knots under my skin.

But I had extremely stiff muscles (back of the neck, back etc) due to

meningitis/ encephalitis from lyme. It came and went. But no knots,

that I remember.

It looks she needs some sort of manual lymphatic drainage to clear

things up. It works fast and is totally painless. But it won't get to

the root of the trouble (if she's got disautonomia or other

troubles). It's more like a fast relief. I guess accupucnture would

help to change her ANS/ disautonomia.

The rubbed oils helped on cleansing my lymphatic system for sure. I

got relaxed, less anxious etc. So did the manual lymph drainage, but

I did these separate. If you have a shop of essential oils, it'll be

easy for you to use the oils Farah recommmends!

Farah doesn't post here, only in lymenet. I copy-pasted some of her

posts on essential oils here months ago.

If you dont' find the posts, I can try to look for the recipy I used

mostly somewhere at home.

Selma

>

> Selma,

> My sister used manipulation on hardened areas or tender areas under

her skin. I have them, many of them. I'm guessing thay are lyme or

babesia? They are very tender. Some feel like lymph nodes (sides of

thighs). Others feel like knots under the skin. She had swelling at

the base of her skull that she massaged out over a long period of

time. She did not use oils. But she may not have lyme and

company,although she had severe and disabling dysautonomia. I am

wondering if the oils matter as much as the movement of fluid or

stagnation or whatever, but we may be talking about two totally

different things. I have a little personal store of essential oils as

I really got into it in the past. For nerves, anxiety, I use vetiver,

ylang ylang with rose sometimes and in olive oil (which makes a big

difference for me, but that could be totally psychological, no clue).

It is very strong. For mucsle pain, I use rosemary, peppermint,

eucalyptus, lemon and lavender. Those are my favorites, both are

> strong and I am really holding water and not getting better... so

for what its worth. I will look again for Farahs posts. Thank you. Sal

>

[Guest guest]

Selma>>Thanks for more details. Sorry to know about your sister. Many people

with lyme are on denial, until they get totally disabled (sad story,

but it's more than common). But as you said, maybe it's not lyme. I

hope so!>>

Yeah. It may not be and doesn't have to be. There can be other causes or

triggers for dysautonomia that are not Bb. She is much better now. Had a swing

up in BP and thyroid went out again, but she has her ways of coping and in many

ways she is better off than I am in her faith and ability to use energy to heal

herself. She doesnt put much stock in putting a lot of things into her body. She

uses energy to balance it out when she can...then she uses the other stuff (and

she will use allopathics, or herbals, whatever) to help her body shift when she

is stuck (ex HBP). So.. who knows...

>>I think I know what you mean about the soft/ tender areas but I'm not

sure I had hard knots. I think I never got hard knots under my skin.

But I had extremely stiff muscles (back of the neck, back etc) due to

meningitis/ encephalitis from lyme. It came and went. But no knots,

that I remember.>>

The knots can be knotted tissue. I have no clue.

>>It looks she needs some sort of manual lymphatic drainage to clear

things up. It works fast and is totally painless. But it won't get to

the root of the trouble (if she's got disautonomia or other

troubles). It's more like a fast relief. I guess accupucnture would

help to change her ANS/ disautonomia.>>

She uses pressure point therapy and massage. She also said that Lithium Orotate

helped her ANS balance out at one point. She ran out and wanted to see if the

gains she had made on it would stay and they did. I'm the one who needs to learn

to do this stuff!:-)

>>The rubbed oils helped on cleansing my lymphatic system for sure. I

got relaxed, less anxious etc. So did the manual lymph drainage, but

I did these separate. If you have a shop of essential oils, it'll be

easy for you to use the oils Farah recommmends!>>

I found some links at Lyme net and will study those. Thank you. I have books and

I am sure what I need to know is in them. Just never heard of aromotherapy

helping with Lyme and Co.

>>Farah doesn't post here, only in lymenet. I copy-pasted some of her

posts on essential oils here months ago.>>

Oh.. I'll look for that as well. Thank you.

>>If you dont' find the posts, I can try to look for the recipy I used

mostly somewhere at home.>>

I'll look and see what I can find and thank you!!

Sal