Re: Re: new and really need advice

[Guest guest]

Yes, you're right.  Thank you so much.  It is nice to share with and hear from

people who think outside the box.  Part of me does want to just walk away and

stop vaccinating altogether, but I just don't know.  I have read extensively

both sides.  I feel stuck in the middle on this one and DH understands both

arguments as well, but would be more toward the alternative schedule than none

at all.  I was comfortable with what we had chosen, but I'm not at all

comfortable any more.  Not sure what I would be comfortable with at this point,

though.  Trying to figure that one out. 

 

We do pretty much attachment parenting (not following any guideline or anything,

just natural child-comes-first mothering) including nursing, though, and I am

going to get a massive project underway this summer involving sustainable

organic gardening so that we can be healthier in that respect.  I'm really

excited about that and also what that will teach the kids.  I'd love to get into

herb growing for medicinal use, so that would be helpful as well. 

From: Brandegee <lightspirals@...>

Subject: Re: New and really need advice

Vaccinations

Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 10:59 PM

I think you are learning you may not be able to dance so close to this

fire.

Liz

>

> You're learning doctors are not trustworthy, nor do they necessarily

> actually know what they're talking about.

>

>

>

> When peter was 6 months old, the doc told me 'the shots are fine as

long as

> they don't have a fever " .. I said, no we're not shooting him w/

anything,

> he's got a bad cold " . went home and found the package insert online

and it

> said itself that his symptoms contraindicated that shot for him!!!

doctors

> don't even know what the contraindications are. They're so

brainwashed that

> vaccines are safe no matter what?! It's how they act.

>

>

>

> I would not even do an alt. schedule. vaccines, even given singly,

can harm.

> The kid can be 25 and it can harm. They can be 200 pounds and it can

harm.

> Vaccines harm. The safest course is NONE at all, ever. Period.

>

>

>

> I would be livid. It was bad enough when jessica was 2 and getting

'caught

> up " and I told them I didn't want her to get the CP shot.. " oh we don't

> give that one yet anyway " . BS! And guess what was on the list for me

to sign

> and I missed b/c I was looking for chicken pox and not varicella?!. .

yes..

> you guessed it. Varicella. And my initials. If looks could kill!

>

>

>

> The shots, even 1 at a time, will not protect your baby but will

introduce

> plenty of crap into her system and her immature immune system.

Health does

> not come through a needle. I have 2 unvaxxed kids and they're very

healthy,

> even with a not wonderful diet.. my 3 y.o. especially. His diet is

terrible

> but he's still pretty healthy. I breastfed him 2 years and avoided

vaccines

> and we homeschool. he's in preschool now though so he brings home

quite a

> many colds. It is driving me nuts! I can't wait for preschool to be

done.

>

>

>

> I'd definitely tell off the doctors. They did not do what was 1/

agreed and

> 2/ asked for that day

>

>

>

> Don't think the FDA will see your cause for alarm but it's worth a try.

>

>

>

>

>

> Nita (crew chief) and the crew: 15, Jon 14, 11, 9,

> 7, Christian (7/16/03 to 8/22/04), 3 and Isaac, 2/3/08

> http://momof6. dotphoto. com <http://momof6. dotphoto. com/> for not

> necessarily current pictures and http://nitasspot. blogspot. com

>

>

>

> Come, PLAY!! http://www.discover ytoyslink. com/nitagarner

>

>

> Learn from the mistakes of others. Trust me... you can't live long

enough

> to make them all yourself.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

At 09:38 PM 12/4/2008, you wrote:

>Yes, you're right. Thank you so much. It is nice to share with and

>hear from people who think outside the box. Part of me does want to

>just walk away and stop vaccinating altogether, but I just don't

>know. I have read extensively both sides.

It is terrible what you have gone through and in a just world this

wouldn't happen

I encourage to look at why you are fearful the diseases. Look at

each disease carefully - that is what many don't do. Once you do,

you realize there is little risk of 'catching' each of them anyway

and little risk if your child does 'catch' them. And there is lots

of regular allopathic treatment and much alternative treatment available.

Once you understand and really 'get' this, you will not see a need

for any vaccines. And then once you know that vaccines do NOT even

give immunity, you will see no need to bother with them.

Once you realize you don't want any vaccines they have to offer, you

will realize, in your study, that you don't want much else they have

to offer either. A naturopath or homeopath or at least a family

practice doctor will be able to help you with your child with the

conditions you mentioned.

>I feel stuck in the middle on this one and DH understands both

>arguments as well, but would be more toward the alternative schedule

>than none at all. I was comfortable with what we had chosen, but

>I'm not at all comfortable any more. Not sure what I would be

>comfortable with at this point, though. Trying to figure that one out.

I do have classes if that would help - so you can learn in detail in

a methodical way

>

>We do pretty much attachment parenting (not following any guideline

>or anything, just natural child-comes-first mothering) including

>nursing, though, and I am going to get a massive project underway

>this summer involving sustainable organic gardening so that we can

>be healthier in that respect. I'm really excited about that and

>also what that will teach the kids. I'd love to get into herb

>growing for medicinal use, so that would be helpful as well.

Great. So please reconsider ruining all that you will do above, by

injecting toxins that have no positive value into your children.

It just takes more research

Welcome

Sheri

listowner

>

>

>From: Brandegee <lightspirals@...>

>Subject: Re: New and really need advice

>Vaccinations

>Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 10:59 PM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>I think you are learning you may not be able to dance so close to this

>fire.

>Liz

>

>

> >

> > You're learning doctors are not trustworthy, nor do they necessarily

> > actually know what they're talking about.

> >

> >

> >

> > When peter was 6 months old, the doc told me 'the shots are fine as

>long as

> > they don't have a fever " .. I said, no we're not shooting him w/

>anything,

> > he's got a bad cold " . went home and found the package insert online

>and it

> > said itself that his symptoms contraindicated that shot for him!!!

>doctors

> > don't even know what the contraindications are. They're so

>brainwashed that

> > vaccines are safe no matter what?! It's how they act.

> >

> >

> >

> > I would not even do an alt. schedule. vaccines, even given singly,

>can harm.

> > The kid can be 25 and it can harm. They can be 200 pounds and it can

>harm.

> > Vaccines harm. The safest course is NONE at all, ever. Period.

> >

> >

> >

> > I would be livid. It was bad enough when jessica was 2 and getting

>'caught

> > up " and I told them I didn't want her to get the CP shot.. " oh we don't

> > give that one yet anyway " . BS! And guess what was on the list for me

>to sign

> > and I missed b/c I was looking for chicken pox and not varicella?!. .

>yes..

> > you guessed it. Varicella. And my initials. If looks could kill!

> >

> >

> >

> > The shots, even 1 at a time, will not protect your baby but will

>introduce

> > plenty of crap into her system and her immature immune system.

>Health does

> > not come through a needle. I have 2 unvaxxed kids and they're very

>healthy,

> > even with a not wonderful diet.. my 3 y.o. especially. His diet is

>terrible

> > but he's still pretty healthy. I breastfed him 2 years and avoided

>vaccines

> > and we homeschool. he's in preschool now though so he brings home

>quite a

> > many colds. It is driving me nuts! I can't wait for preschool to be

>done.

> >

> >

> >

> > I'd definitely tell off the doctors. They did not do what was 1/

>agreed and

> > 2/ asked for that day

> >

> >

> >

> > Don't think the FDA will see your cause for alarm but it's worth a try.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Nita (crew chief) and the crew: 15, Jon 14, 11, 9,

> > 7, Christian (7/16/03 to 8/22/04), 3 and Isaac, 2/3/08

> > http://momof6. dotphoto. com <http://momof6. dotphoto. com/> for not

> > necessarily current pictures and http://nitasspot. blogspot. com

> >

> >

> >

> > Come, PLAY!! http://www.discover ytoyslink. com/nitagarner

> >

> >

> > Learn from the mistakes of others. Trust me... you can't live long

>enough

> > to make them all yourself.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

At 08:38 AM 12/5/2008, you wrote:

> " All doctors are nice.....until you stand up for yourself and

>challenge them.. Then their bedside manor takes off its mask. "

>

>Oh my God, Jim, that is SO true! That quote should be sent to every

>new parent!

>

>Sylvia

Exactly

My father had a scope of his esophagus October 29

I flew from UK to US and we had Drs visit on November 3 with the

doctor who did the scope

He seemed very nice - my parents introduced me as their RN daughter

and advocate.

He basically just judged my father by his 85 years of age and his

debilitated state from no food for a month due to tumor in his esophagus.

I asked a lot of questions to try to determine extent. Brought

photos of my dad that showed how he was a few months before

-nourished and active.

He wouldn't even look at them.

I asked for a feeding tube - he said 'it won't change the

outcome'. Duh???? Food doesn't change outcome? Anyway, got it

ordered and scheduled.

Then dr. wanted a CAT scan abdomen. I asked if that was for me

because of my questions about metastasis. Or was it important? Also

didn't want the dye that could cause an allergic reaction. The

doctor who seemed so nice, pushed back his chair, threw up his hands,

sighed loudly and said " what gives you the right to make decisions

for these people " ?

Huh? Daughter, RN, Advocate - and I wasn't making decisions, I was

asking questions.

I told him his behavior was not appropriate and that I had every

right to ask questions.

My parents didn't understand what was happening - my dad said 'doctor

we want to follow what you say " . My mom chimed in (she can't hear

and didn't hear what he was saying to me or how he was treating

me. I just sat back, knowing that but knowing I didn't want this to

be bad for them. Dr. was frustrated trying to order CAT scan on the

computer (heard him mutter that he would order it without the dye).

When we got out, I told my parents what had happened and they were

distressed they didn't realize and didn't stick up for me.

It was a bad day.

So even as a nurse, they treat you that way. Don't get in their way.

Sheri

>

> >

> > I am not sure how to say this. If it doesn't come out right,

>understand there is no

> > bad feelings directed toward you. I have faced off with doctors

>many times over the past

> > 30 years. I couldn't even finish reading your letter because I was

>so pissed. Not at you but the enstein doctor of yours.

> > I don't think you have a leg to stand on in court, because these

>bastards literally have a license to kill.

> > Having said that I do hope you face off with the S.O.B. and blow

>his arrogant ass away. He wasn't having a bad day.

> > He resented your telling him how to take care of your child. All

>doctors are nice.....until you stand up for yourself and challenge

>them.. Then their bedside manor takes off its mask. Doctors are

>actually taught how to control and intimidate people in all

>situations. That's why they always have a quick answer when

>confronted with questions they don;t feel comfortable with. I feel

>your pain, dismay, hurt, feeling of betrayal and anger.

> > I can't tell you what to do, but I will suggest you do what you

>feel needs to be done.

> >

> > Jim

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

A few weeks before they killed my daughter, I brought in the print-out sheet

for one of the drugs they wanted to give her, Gentomyacin, not sure of spelling.

Dr. enstein ( A member of the enstein undertakers or F.U. group)

literally

knocked it out of my hands and said I don't need to see that. Then they gave her

the drugs anyway, AFTER she said no three times in front of nine witnesses. I

have been thrown out of more enstein offices than most people have been to.

I know first hand what they are  like when you take the bull by the horns and

question them, and I don't mean the ez questions most people ask.

  " Physicians pour drugs of which they know little, to cure diseases of which

they know less, into humans bodies of which they know nothing. "   Voltaire   

1694  1778 I would add of the life force of which they know nothing, except how

to poison it.

Jim

________________________________

From: Sheri Nakken <vaccineinfo@...>

Vaccinations

Sent: Friday, December 5, 2008 11:24:34 AM

Subject: Re: Re: New and really need advice

At 08:38 AM 12/5/2008, you wrote:

> " All doctors are nice.....until you stand up for yourself and

>challenge them.. Then their bedside manor takes off its mask. "

>

>Oh my God, Jim, that is SO true! That quote should be sent to every

>new parent!

>

>Sylvia

Exactly

My father had a scope of his esophagus October 29

I flew from UK to US and we had Drs visit on November 3 with the

doctor who did the scope

He seemed very nice - my parents introduced me as their RN daughter

and advocate.

He basically just judged my father by his 85 years of age and his

debilitated state from no food for a month due to tumor in his esophagus.

I asked a lot of questions to try to determine extent. Brought

photos of my dad that showed how he was a few months before

-nourished and active.

He wouldn't even look at them.

I asked for a feeding tube - he said 'it won't change the

outcome'. Duh???? Food doesn't change outcome? Anyway, got it

ordered and scheduled.

Then dr. wanted a CAT scan abdomen. I asked if that was for me

because of my questions about metastasis. Or was it important? Also

didn't want the dye that could cause an allergic reaction. The

doctor who seemed so nice, pushed back his chair, threw up his hands,

sighed loudly and said " what gives you the right to make decisions

for these people " ?

Huh? Daughter, RN, Advocate - and I wasn't making decisions, I was

asking questions.

I told him his behavior was not appropriate and that I had every

right to ask questions.

My parents didn't understand what was happening - my dad said 'doctor

we want to follow what you say " . My mom chimed in (she can't hear

and didn't hear what he was saying to me or how he was treating

me. I just sat back, knowing that but knowing I didn't want this to

be bad for them. Dr. was frustrated trying to order CAT scan on the

computer (heard him mutter that he would order it without the dye).

When we got out, I told my parents what had happened and they were

distressed they didn't realize and didn't stick up for me.

It was a bad day.

So even as a nurse, they treat you that way. Don't get in their way.

Sheri

>

> >

> > I am not sure how to say this. If it doesn't come out right,

>understand there is no

> > bad feelings directed toward you. I have faced off with doctors

>many times over the past

> > 30 years. I couldn't even finish reading your letter because I was

>so pissed. Not at you but the enstein doctor of yours.

> > I don't think you have a leg to stand on in court, because these

>bastards literally have a license to kill.

> > Having said that I do hope you face off with the S.O.B. and blow

>his arrogant ass away. He wasn't having a bad day.

> > He resented your telling him how to take care of your child. All

>doctors are nice.....until you stand up for yourself and challenge

>them.. Then their bedside manor takes off its mask. Doctors are

>actually taught how to control and intimidate people in all

>situations. That's why they always have a quick answer when

>confronted with questions they don;t feel comfortable with.. I feel

>your pain, dismay, hurt, feeling of betrayal and anger.

> > I can't tell you what to do, but I will suggest you do what you

>feel needs to be done.

> >

> > Jim

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>----------- --------- --------- -------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Oh, boy, Sheri. I know how tough that is dealing with deaf parents who don't

want to make waves. Good for you to make that doc listen. My husband's

grandfather died from an allergic reaction to the dye.

Hope the scan shows good news.

Winnie

Re: Re: New and really need advice

Vaccinations

> At 08:38 AM 12/5/2008, you wrote:

> > " All doctors are nice.....until you stand up for yourself and

> >challenge them.. Then their bedside manor takes off its mask. "

> >

> >Oh my God, Jim, that is SO true! That quote should be sent to every

> >new parent!

> >

> >Sylvia

>

>

> Exactly

> My father had a scope of his esophagus October 29

> I flew from UK to US and we had Drs visit on November 3 with the

> doctor who did the scope

> He seemed very nice - my parents introduced me as their RN

> daughter

> and advocate.

>

> He basically just judged my father by his 85 years of age and

> his

> debilitated state from no food for a month due to tumor in his

> esophagus.I asked a lot of questions to try to determine extent.

> Brought

> photos of my dad that showed how he was a few months before

> -nourished and active.

> He wouldn't even look at them.

> I asked for a feeding tube - he said 'it won't change the

> outcome'. Duh???? Food doesn't change outcome? Anyway, got it

> ordered and scheduled.

> Then dr. wanted a CAT scan abdomen. I asked if that was for me

> because of my questions about metastasis. Or was it important?

> Also

> didn't want the dye that could cause an allergic reaction. The

> doctor who seemed so nice, pushed back his chair, threw up his

> hands,

> sighed loudly and said " what gives you the right to make

> decisions

> for these people " ?

>

> Huh? Daughter, RN, Advocate - and I wasn't making decisions, I

> was

> asking questions.

>

> I told him his behavior was not appropriate and that I had every

> right to ask questions.

>

> My parents didn't understand what was happening - my dad said

> 'doctor

> we want to follow what you say " . My mom chimed in (she can't

> hear

> and didn't hear what he was saying to me or how he was treating

> me. I just sat back, knowing that but knowing I didn't want

> this to

> be bad for them. Dr. was frustrated trying to order CAT scan on

> the

> computer (heard him mutter that he would order it without the dye).

>

> When we got out, I told my parents what had happened and they

> were

> distressed they didn't realize and didn't stick up for me.

>

> It was a bad day.

>

> So even as a nurse, they treat you that way. Don't get in their way.

>

> Sheri

>

>

> >> >

> > > I am not sure how to say this. If it doesn't come out right,

> >understand there is no

> > > bad feelings directed toward you. I have faced off with doctors

> >many times over the past

> > > 30 years. I couldn't even finish reading your letter because

> I was

> >so pissed. Not at you but the enstein doctor of yours.

> > > I don't think you have a leg to stand on in court, because these

> >bastards literally have a license to kill.

> > > Having said that I do hope you face off with the S.O.B. and blow

> >his arrogant ass away. He wasn't having a bad day.

> > > He resented your telling him how to take care of your child. All

> >doctors are nice.....until you stand up for yourself and challenge

> >them.. Then their bedside manor takes off its mask. Doctors are

> >actually taught how to control and intimidate people in all

> >situations. That's why they always have a quick answer when

> >confronted with questions they don;t feel comfortable with. I feel

> >your pain, dismay, hurt, feeling of betrayal and anger.

> > > I can't tell you what to do, but I will suggest you do what you

> >feel needs to be done.

> > >

> > > Jim

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

That's awful. I'm surprised you haven't been arrested (or have you??).

Winnie

Re: Re: New and really need advice

>

>

> At 08:38 AM 12/5/2008, you wrote:

> > " All doctors are nice.....until you stand up for yourself and

> >challenge them.. Then their bedside manor takes off its mask. "

> >

> >Oh my God, Jim, that is SO true! That quote should be sent to every

> >new parent!

> >

> >Sylvia

>

> Exactly

> My father had a scope of his esophagus October 29

> I flew from UK to US and we had Drs visit on November 3 with the

> doctor who did the scope

> He seemed very nice - my parents introduced me as their RN

> daughter

> and advocate.

>

> He basically just judged my father by his 85 years of age and

> his

> debilitated state from no food for a month due to tumor in his

> esophagus.I asked a lot of questions to try to determine extent.

> Brought

> photos of my dad that showed how he was a few months before

> -nourished and active.

> He wouldn't even look at them.

> I asked for a feeding tube - he said 'it won't change the

> outcome'. Duh???? Food doesn't change outcome? Anyway, got it

> ordered and scheduled.

> Then dr. wanted a CAT scan abdomen. I asked if that was for me

> because of my questions about metastasis. Or was it important?

> Also

> didn't want the dye that could cause an allergic reaction. The

> doctor who seemed so nice, pushed back his chair, threw up his

> hands,

> sighed loudly and said " what gives you the right to make

> decisions

> for these people " ?

>

> Huh? Daughter, RN, Advocate - and I wasn't making decisions, I

> was

> asking questions.

>

> I told him his behavior was not appropriate and that I had every

> right to ask questions.

>

> My parents didn't understand what was happening - my dad said

> 'doctor

> we want to follow what you say " . My mom chimed in (she can't

> hear

> and didn't hear what he was saying to me or how he was treating

> me. I just sat back, knowing that but knowing I didn't want this

> to

> be bad for them. Dr. was frustrated trying to order CAT scan on

> the

> computer (heard him mutter that he would order it without the dye).

>

> When we got out, I told my parents what had happened and they

> were

> distressed they didn't realize and didn't stick up for me.

>

> It was a bad day.

>

> So even as a nurse, they treat you that way. Don't get in their way.

>

> Sheri

>

> >

> > >

> > > I am not sure how to say this. If it doesn't come out right,

> >understand there is no

> > > bad feelings directed toward you. I have faced off with doctors

> >many times over the past

> > > 30 years. I couldn't even finish reading your letter because

> I was

> >so pissed. Not at you but the enstein doctor of yours.

> > > I don't think you have a leg to stand on in court, because these

> >bastards literally have a license to kill.

> > > Having said that I do hope you face off with the S.O.B. and blow

> >his arrogant ass away. He wasn't having a bad day.

> > > He resented your telling him how to take care of your child. All

> >doctors are nice.....until you stand up for yourself and challenge

> >them.. Then their bedside manor takes off its mask. Doctors are

> >actually taught how to control and intimidate people in all

> >situations. That's why they always have a quick answer when

> >confronted with questions they don;t feel comfortable with.. I feel

> >your pain, dismay, hurt, feeling of betrayal and anger.

> > > I can't tell you what to do, but I will suggest you do what you

> >feel needs to be done.

> > >

> > > Jim

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >----------- --------- --------- -------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Not yet, but in the hospital, one of the head administrators threatened to

have me charged with practicing medicine without a license. I have spent some

time at the law library, so I encouraged her to charge me. The average person

has no idea how these people lie and scheme. They refer it it as the plan.

Until they did their dirty work they did nothing without talking to me first.

The head administrator at one time told me they didn't like coming to me to make

their decisions

concerning the treatment and said it was going to stop. I thought she meant they

would stop battling with me over the drugs. I didn't realize they were so

arrogant and would just ignore my daughters decision that  they would do it

behind her  back without  her permission . I didn't put it all together until I

finally got the records minus the incident reports, and it showed where she had

three times the normal level of the drug in her system  four days before and

five times the day before she died.

I actually had a member of the enstein group tell me that if she was in the

hospital she would want someone like me to be her advocate. I don't know if it

was a coincidence or not but they changed some of the content in their patients

rights brochure a short time later.   I will anticipate your question. I had

both the state and the local police department investigate. The police did

nothing but wait on the states decision and the state almost two years later

wrote and said, neither the hospital or doctors have violated any licensing

laws. I talked with lawyers, they said because I was not the husband I would

receive no money in case of a settlement. I said I wasn't interested in money, I

was interested in justice. I foolishly thought someone in the establishment

cared about right and wrong in that profession. I even at one time talked to a

enstein Dr. who was a friend of a friend of mine who was a nurse.

I showed him the papers. I could tell he was having trouble figuring out what to

tell me by his attitude. I spent 30 years in direct selling. I am good at

reading in between the lines sometimes. He told me that they way they handled

the case and the way they treated us was  wrong, but he saw nothing out of the

ordinary as far as their treatment goes. At the same time gulping down a

hand-full of pills. The husband who was legally blind and had some health

problems and as far as I am concerned some mental problem's was unmotivated and

useless. He is now in a nursing home himself. To paraphrase M.L.King I have been

to the Allopathic Medical mountain top and the view is not pretty. There is of

course a lot more to this story, but this will give you a window view of why I

have no faith in Allopaths, with the exception of trauma and crises, which in my

opinion would represent about 10% of the profession.

Jim

________________________________

From: " wharrison@... " <wharrison@...>

Vaccinations

Sent: Friday, December 5, 2008 12:31:53 PM

Subject: Re: Re: New and really need advice

That's awful. I'm surprised you haven't been arrested (or have you??).

Winnie

Re: Re: New and really need advice

>

>

> At 08:38 AM 12/5/2008, you wrote:

> > " All doctors are nice.....until you stand up for yourself and

> >challenge them.. Then their bedside manor takes off its mask. "

> >

> >Oh my God, Jim, that is SO true! That quote should be sent to every

> >new parent!

> >

> >Sylvia

>

> Exactly

> My father had a scope of his esophagus October 29

> I flew from UK to US and we had Drs visit on November 3 with the

> doctor who did the scope

> He seemed very nice - my parents introduced me as their RN

> daughter

> and advocate.

>

> He basically just judged my father by his 85 years of age and

> his

> debilitated state from no food for a month due to tumor in his

> esophagus.I asked a lot of questions to try to determine extent.

> Brought

> photos of my dad that showed how he was a few months before

> -nourished and active.

> He wouldn't even look at them.

> I asked for a feeding tube - he said 'it won't change the

> outcome'. Duh???? Food doesn't change outcome? Anyway, got it

> ordered and scheduled.

> Then dr. wanted a CAT scan abdomen. I asked if that was for me

> because of my questions about metastasis. Or was it important?

> Also

> didn't want the dye that could cause an allergic reaction. The

> doctor who seemed so nice, pushed back his chair, threw up his

> hands,

> sighed loudly and said " what gives you the right to make

> decisions

> for these people " ?

>

> Huh? Daughter, RN, Advocate - and I wasn't making decisions, I

> was

> asking questions.

>

> I told him his behavior was not appropriate and that I had every

> right to ask questions.

>

> My parents didn't understand what was happening - my dad said

> 'doctor

> we want to follow what you say " . My mom chimed in (she can't

> hear

> and didn't hear what he was saying to me or how he was treating

> me. I just sat back, knowing that but knowing I didn't want this

> to

> be bad for them. Dr. was frustrated trying to order CAT scan on

> the

> computer (heard him mutter that he would order it without the dye).

>

> When we got out, I told my parents what had happened and they

> were

> distressed they didn't realize and didn't stick up for me.

>

> It was a bad day.

>

> So even as a nurse, they treat you that way. Don't get in their way.

>

> Sheri

>

> >

> > >

> > > I am not sure how to say this. If it doesn't come out right,

> >understand there is no

> > > bad feelings directed toward you. I have faced off with doctors

> >many times over the past

> > > 30 years. I couldn't even finish reading your letter because

> I was

> >so pissed. Not at you but the enstein doctor of yours..

> > > I don't think you have a leg to stand on in court, because these

> >bastards literally have a license to kill.

> > > Having said that I do hope you face off with the S.O.B. and blow

> >his arrogant ass away. He wasn't having a bad day.

> > > He resented your telling him how to take care of your child. All

> >doctors are nice.....until you stand up for yourself and challenge

> >them.. Then their bedside manor takes off its mask. Doctors are

> >actually taught how to control and intimidate people in all

> >situations. That's why they always have a quick answer when

> >confronted with questions they don;t feel comfortable with.. I feel

> >your pain, dismay, hurt, feeling of betrayal and anger.

> > > I can't tell you what to do, but I will suggest you do what you

> >feel needs to be done.

> > >

> > > Jim

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >----------- --------- --------- -------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

read this http://whale.to/v/horwin1.html

" What you are about to read will shock you. It is a story of oncologists lying

to parents about the efficacy of their therapy and using coercive tactics such

as threats of court orders to take children and submit them to treatments that

they know are torturous and ineffective.......We were told, not asked, but told

that we had 30 days from 's surgeries to start chemo. We were told that

chemo would offer a good chance of survival. We were told that he

would be getting a new chemo protocol with " state-of-the-art " drugs. And we were

warned that if we did not bring in for chemotherapy a court order

would be forthcoming so that the oncologists could take him from us and

administer these poisons without our approval. We were lied to and threatened so

that oncologists could fill our son with deadly ineffective poisons that simply

shortened his life and made his last days on earth a living hell.

The oncologists did what they were trained to without challenging the death

that surrounds their treatments. The FDA took away 's freedom to use a

non-toxic and potentially life-saving therapy. The drug companies received their

chemotherapy profits. lost his life. And we have to live with the

knowledge that we never gave our son a fighting chance to survive his disease.

Re: Re: New and really need advice

At 08:38 AM 12/5/2008, you wrote:

> " All doctors are nice.....until you stand up for yourself and

>challenge them.. Then their bedside manor takes off its mask. "

>

>Oh my God, Jim, that is SO true! That quote should be sent to every

>new parent!

>

>Sylvia

Exactly

My father had a scope of his esophagus October 29

I flew from UK to US and we had Drs visit on November 3 with the

doctor who did the scope

He seemed very nice - my parents introduced me as their RN daughter

and advocate.

He basically just judged my father by his 85 years of age and his

debilitated state from no food for a month due to tumor in his esophagus.

I asked a lot of questions to try to determine extent. Brought

photos of my dad that showed how he was a few months before

-nourished and active.

He wouldn't even look at them.

I asked for a feeding tube - he said 'it won't change the

outcome'. Duh???? Food doesn't change outcome? Anyway, got it

ordered and scheduled.

Then dr. wanted a CAT scan abdomen. I asked if that was for me

because of my questions about metastasis. Or was it important? Also

didn't want the dye that could cause an allergic reaction. The

doctor who seemed so nice, pushed back his chair, threw up his hands,

sighed loudly and said " what gives you the right to make decisions

for these people " ?

Huh? Daughter, RN, Advocate - and I wasn't making decisions, I was

asking questions.

I told him his behavior was not appropriate and that I had every

right to ask questions.

My parents didn't understand what was happening - my dad said 'doctor

we want to follow what you say " . My mom chimed in (she can't hear

and didn't hear what he was saying to me or how he was treating

me. I just sat back, knowing that but knowing I didn't want this to

be bad for them. Dr. was frustrated trying to order CAT scan on the

computer (heard him mutter that he would order it without the dye).

When we got out, I told my parents what had happened and they were

distressed they didn't realize and didn't stick up for me.

It was a bad day.

So even as a nurse, they treat you that way. Don't get in their way.

Sheri

>

> >

> > I am not sure how to say this. If it doesn't come out right,

>understand there is no

> > bad feelings directed toward you. I have faced off with doctors

>many times over the past

> > 30 years. I couldn't even finish reading your letter because I was

>so pissed. Not at you but the enstein doctor of yours.

> > I don't think you have a leg to stand on in court, because these

>bastards literally have a license to kill.

> > Having said that I do hope you face off with the S.O.B. and blow

>his arrogant ass away. He wasn't having a bad day.

> > He resented your telling him how to take care of your child. All

>doctors are nice.....until you stand up for yourself and challenge

>them.. Then their bedside manor takes off its mask. Doctors are

>actually taught how to control and intimidate people in all

>situations. That's why they always have a quick answer when

>confronted with questions they don;t feel comfortable with.. I feel

>your pain, dismay, hurt, feeling of betrayal and anger.

> > I can't tell you what to do, but I will suggest you do what you

>feel needs to be done.

> >

> > Jim

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>----------- --------- --------- -------

>

>

[Guest guest]

exactly

These are people and I know personally.

Sheri

At 02:07 PM 12/5/2008, you wrote:

>read this http://whale.to/v/horwin1.html

>

> " What you are about to read will shock you. It is a story of

>oncologists lying to parents about the efficacy of their therapy and

>using coercive tactics such as threats of court orders to take

>children and submit them to treatments that they know are torturous

>and ineffective.......We were told, not asked, but told that we had

>30 days from 's surgeries to start chemo. We were told that

>chemo would offer a good chance of survival. We were told

>that he would be getting a new chemo protocol with

> " state-of-the-art " drugs. And we were warned that if we did not

>bring in for chemotherapy a court order would be

>forthcoming so that the oncologists could take him from us and

>administer these poisons without our approval. We were lied to and

>threatened so that oncologists could fill our son with deadly

>ineffective poisons that simply shortened his life and made his last

>days on earth a living hell.

> The oncologists did what they were trained to without

> challenging the death that surrounds their treatments. The FDA took

> away 's freedom to use a non-toxic and potentially

> life-saving therapy. The drug companies received their chemotherapy

> profits. lost his life. And we have to live with the

> knowledge that we never gave our son a fighting chance to survive his disease.

>

>

>

>

> Re: Re: New and really need advice

>

> At 08:38 AM 12/5/2008, you wrote:

> > " All doctors are nice.....until you stand up for yourself and

> >challenge them.. Then their bedside manor takes off its mask. "

> >

> >Oh my God, Jim, that is SO true! That quote should be sent to every

> >new parent!

> >

> >Sylvia

>

> Exactly

> My father had a scope of his esophagus October 29

> I flew from UK to US and we had Drs visit on November 3 with the

> doctor who did the scope

> He seemed very nice - my parents introduced me as their RN daughter

> and advocate.

>

> He basically just judged my father by his 85 years of age and his

> debilitated state from no food for a month due to tumor in his esophagus.

> I asked a lot of questions to try to determine extent. Brought

> photos of my dad that showed how he was a few months before

> -nourished and active.

> He wouldn't even look at them.

> I asked for a feeding tube - he said 'it won't change the

> outcome'. Duh???? Food doesn't change outcome? Anyway, got it

> ordered and scheduled.

> Then dr. wanted a CAT scan abdomen. I asked if that was for me

> because of my questions about metastasis. Or was it important? Also

> didn't want the dye that could cause an allergic reaction. The

> doctor who seemed so nice, pushed back his chair, threw up his hands,

> sighed loudly and said " what gives you the right to make decisions

> for these people " ?

>

> Huh? Daughter, RN, Advocate - and I wasn't making decisions, I was

> asking questions.

>

> I told him his behavior was not appropriate and that I had every

> right to ask questions.

>

> My parents didn't understand what was happening - my dad said 'doctor

> we want to follow what you say " . My mom chimed in (she can't hear

> and didn't hear what he was saying to me or how he was treating

> me. I just sat back, knowing that but knowing I didn't want this to

> be bad for them. Dr. was frustrated trying to order CAT scan on the

> computer (heard him mutter that he would order it without the dye).

>

> When we got out, I told my parents what had happened and they were

> distressed they didn't realize and didn't stick up for me.

>

> It was a bad day.

>

> So even as a nurse, they treat you that way. Don't get in their way.

>

> Sheri

>

> >

> > >

> > > I am not sure how to say this. If it doesn't come out right,

> >understand there is no

> > > bad feelings directed toward you. I have faced off with doctors

> >many times over the past

> > > 30 years. I couldn't even finish reading your letter because I was

> >so pissed. Not at you but the enstein doctor of yours.

> > > I don't think you have a leg to stand on in court, because these

> >bastards literally have a license to kill.

> > > Having said that I do hope you face off with the S.O.B. and blow

> >his arrogant ass away. He wasn't having a bad day.

> > > He resented your telling him how to take care of your child. All

> >doctors are nice.....until you stand up for yourself and challenge

> >them.. Then their bedside manor takes off its mask. Doctors are

> >actually taught how to control and intimidate people in all

> >situations. That's why they always have a quick answer when

> >confronted with questions they don;t feel comfortable with.. I feel

> >your pain, dismay, hurt, feeling of betrayal and anger.

> > > I can't tell you what to do, but I will suggest you do what you

> >feel needs to be done.

> > >

> > > Jim

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >----------- --------- --------- -------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I'd want you as my advocate, too! What a nightmare...

Winnie

Re: Re: New and really need advice

> >

> >

> > At 08:38 AM 12/5/2008, you wrote:

> > > " All doctors are nice.....until you stand up for yourself and

> > >challenge them.. Then their bedside manor takes off its mask. "

> > >

> > >Oh my God, Jim, that is SO true! That quote should be sent to every

> > >new parent!

> > >

> > >Sylvia

> >

> > Exactly

> > My father had a scope of his esophagus October 29

> > I flew from UK to US and we had Drs visit on November 3 with

> the

> > doctor who did the scope

> > He seemed very nice - my parents introduced me as their RN

> > daughter

> > and advocate.

> >

> > He basically just judged my father by his 85 years of age and

> > his

> > debilitated state from no food for a month due to tumor in his

> > esophagus.I asked a lot of questions to try to determine

> extent.

> > Brought

> > photos of my dad that showed how he was a few months before

> > -nourished and active.

> > He wouldn't even look at them.

> > I asked for a feeding tube - he said 'it won't change the

> > outcome'. Duh???? Food doesn't change outcome? Anyway, got it

> > ordered and scheduled.

> > Then dr. wanted a CAT scan abdomen. I asked if that was for me

> > because of my questions about metastasis. Or was it important?

> > Also

> > didn't want the dye that could cause an allergic reaction. The

> > doctor who seemed so nice, pushed back his chair, threw up his

> > hands,

> > sighed loudly and said " what gives you the right to make

> > decisions

> > for these people " ?

> >

> > Huh? Daughter, RN, Advocate - and I wasn't making decisions, I

> > was

> > asking questions.

> >

> > I told him his behavior was not appropriate and that I had

> every

> > right to ask questions.

> >

> > My parents didn't understand what was happening - my dad said

> > 'doctor

> > we want to follow what you say " . My mom chimed in (she can't

> > hear

> > and didn't hear what he was saying to me or how he was

> treating

> > me. I just sat back, knowing that but knowing I didn't want

> this

> > to

> > be bad for them. Dr. was frustrated trying to order CAT scan

> on

> > the

> > computer (heard him mutter that he would order it without the dye).

> >

> > When we got out, I told my parents what had happened and they

> > were

> > distressed they didn't realize and didn't stick up for me.

> >

> > It was a bad day.

> >

> > So even as a nurse, they treat you that way. Don't get in

> their way.

> >

> > Sheri

> >

> > >

> > > >

> > > > I am not sure how to say this. If it doesn't come out right,

> > >understand there is no

> > > > bad feelings directed toward you. I have faced off with doctors

> > >many times over the past

> > > > 30 years. I couldn't even finish reading your letter

> because

> > I was

> > >so pissed. Not at you but the enstein doctor of yours..

> > > > I don't think you have a leg to stand on in court, because these

> > >bastards literally have a license to kill.

> > > > Having said that I do hope you face off with the S.O.B.

> and blow

> > >his arrogant ass away. He wasn't having a bad day.

> > > > He resented your telling him how to take care of your

> child. All

> > >doctors are nice.....until you stand up for yourself and challenge

> > >them.. Then their bedside manor takes off its mask. Doctors are

> > >actually taught how to control and intimidate people in all

> > >situations. That's why they always have a quick answer when

> > >confronted with questions they don;t feel comfortable with..

> I feel

> > >your pain, dismay, hurt, feeling of betrayal and anger.

> > > > I can't tell you what to do, but I will suggest you do

> what you

> > >feel needs to be done.

> > > >

> > > > Jim

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >----------- --------- --------- -------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

I have had four of my friends die from not the cancer but the treatment(drugs).

When I sold insurance, I heard hundreds of horror stories from senior citizens.

Along with my 30 year " s  experience with the Allopaths, and  now understanding,

it

doesn't matter if a doctor is nice or not. It doesn't matter whether there good

or not. Its not the doctor,

its the treatment.Its the system that is screwed up.  Its the cut, burn, drug

treatment that is contrary to common sense. I used to

think that they didn't really know what damage they were doing . Now I am

convinced any doctor

who has been in business for a number of years knows exactly what he is  doing.

We are the ones who don't know whats going on. We are the ones who build most

diseases

with our disease building habits. And then like all my friends (seniors) they go

to an Allopath to

take some pills to undo the damage they have caused themselves over a lifetime.

This is why I keep pounding

away for people to learn the laws of health and healthful living. Use your

common sense to build health.

How many side effects will you get from the right food, exercise, sunshine,

fresh air, rest, and developing a positive attitude?  On the other hand, how

much vitamin A is their in coal-tar product (drugs)? How much of the B-complex

is there in aluminum? How much vitamin C is there in anti-freeze? How much

vitamin D is there in radiation?

I have stated a number of times that the number one cause of deaths in America

is them. The Allopaths. Its called iatrogenics, that means diseases and deaths

caused by doctors and hospitals.   But the number one cause of disease is  us.

We our are own worst enemy. We have been brainwashed from every source, and then

refuse to listen when an opposite idea is presented to us. Why don't people

learn from our mistakes? We started out believing the medical propaganda, at

first from are family who learned it from their parents and on down the line.

Then the lies were and are now being taught  in school to our children and

grandchildren. Then the media reinforces all the lies.

What are the lies? Let me give you the most common. Lie number one. We are

living longer because of the Allopaths. Lie number two. Small-pox and polio were

wiped out by vaccines. Lie number three. Drugs assist the human body to get

well. And the same people who lied about the above three, give you lie number

four. Viruses and germs cause your disease. Let me give you a real life example.

My 15 year old unvaccinated, healthy as a horse, unvaccinated horse that is, is

now taking Biology. We read the first chapter. Point number one. Scientist are

open

minded. I showed her that the book wasn't written by scientist. Than the book

said germs cause disease, and went on to say these disease causing germs were

spread by insects, animals and humans. I than asked her what is the number one

disease that is supposed to be caught by germs. Without hesitation , she said

colds. I asked how many of your friends have caught colds. She said all of them

including herself. I then said how many of you are dead.

She had a puzzled look, laughed and said none.  I than said Ok lets take on the

most common diseases. What kind of germ causes arthritis. She said germs don't

cause arthritis. I than said separately what germs cause diabetes, cancer and

heart problems?  She said none. I then said why are they in the first chapter

planting a seed in your mind that germs are the cause of disease? She of course

had no answer. Let me ask you a question. How many 15 year old " s will question

their teacher. How many will even have a doubt about what  is being taught them.

Where is the proof for those statements. Did you ask the tough questions when

you were 15. I know I didn't.

I and many others had to learn the hard way. I hope you don't.

I'll tell you what I think. I think some of these people should go to jail from

five to life. How can a profession cause so much human misery and death and not

be a crime aginst humanity?

jim

________________________________

From: <scu23@...>

Vaccinations

Sent: Friday, December 5, 2008 3:07:17 PM

Subject: Re: Re: New and really need advice

read this http://whale. to/v/horwin1. html

" What you are about to read will shock you. It is a story of oncologists lying

to parents about the efficacy of their therapy and using coercive tactics such

as threats of court orders to take children and submit them to treatments that

they know are torturous and ineffective. ......We were told, not asked, but told

that we had 30 days from 's surgeries to start chemo. We were told that

chemo would offer a good chance of survival. We were told that he

would be getting a new chemo protocol with " state-of-the- art " drugs. And we

were warned that if we did not bring in for chemotherapy a court order

would be forthcoming so that the oncologists could take him from us and

administer these poisons without our approval. We were lied to and threatened so

that oncologists could fill our son with deadly ineffective poisons that simply

shortened his life and made his last days on earth a living hell.

The oncologists did what they were trained to without challenging the death that

surrounds their treatments. The FDA took away 's freedom to use a

non-toxic and potentially life-saving therapy. The drug companies received their

chemotherapy profits. lost his life. And we have to live with the

knowledge that we never gave our son a fighting chance to survive his disease.

Re: Re: New and really need advice

At 08:38 AM 12/5/2008, you wrote:

> " All doctors are nice.....until you stand up for yourself and

>challenge them.. Then their bedside manor takes off its mask. "

>

>Oh my God, Jim, that is SO true! That quote should be sent to every

>new parent!

>

>Sylvia

Exactly

My father had a scope of his esophagus October 29

I flew from UK to US and we had Drs visit on November 3 with the

doctor who did the scope

He seemed very nice - my parents introduced me as their RN daughter

and advocate.

He basically just judged my father by his 85 years of age and his

debilitated state from no food for a month due to tumor in his esophagus.

I asked a lot of questions to try to determine extent. Brought

photos of my dad that showed how he was a few months before

-nourished and active.

He wouldn't even look at them.

I asked for a feeding tube - he said 'it won't change the

outcome'. Duh???? Food doesn't change outcome? Anyway, got it

ordered and scheduled.

Then dr. wanted a CAT scan abdomen. I asked if that was for me

because of my questions about metastasis. Or was it important? Also

didn't want the dye that could cause an allergic reaction. The

doctor who seemed so nice, pushed back his chair, threw up his hands,

sighed loudly and said " what gives you the right to make decisions

for these people " ?

Huh? Daughter, RN, Advocate - and I wasn't making decisions, I was

asking questions.

I told him his behavior was not appropriate and that I had every

right to ask questions.

My parents didn't understand what was happening - my dad said 'doctor

we want to follow what you say " . My mom chimed in (she can't hear

and didn't hear what he was saying to me or how he was treating

me. I just sat back, knowing that but knowing I didn't want this to

be bad for them. Dr. was frustrated trying to order CAT scan on the

computer (heard him mutter that he would order it without the dye).

When we got out, I told my parents what had happened and they were

distressed they didn't realize and didn't stick up for me.

It was a bad day.

So even as a nurse, they treat you that way. Don't get in their way.

Sheri

>

> >

> > I am not sure how to say this. If it doesn't come out right,

>understand there is no

> > bad feelings directed toward you. I have faced off with doctors

>many times over the past

> > 30 years. I couldn't even finish reading your letter because I was

>so pissed. Not at you but the enstein doctor of yours.

> > I don't think you have a leg to stand on in court, because these

>bastards literally have a license to kill.

> > Having said that I do hope you face off with the S.O..B. and blow

>his arrogant ass away. He wasn't having a bad day.

> > He resented your telling him how to take care of your child. All

>doctors are nice.....until you stand up for yourself and challenge

>them.. Then their bedside manor takes off its mask. Doctors are

>actually taught how to control and intimidate people in all

>situations. That's why they always have a quick answer when

>confronted with questions they don;t feel comfortable with.. I feel

>your pain, dismay, hurt, feeling of betrayal and anger.

> > I can't tell you what to do, but I will suggest you do what you

>feel needs to be done.

> >

> > Jim

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>----------- --------- --------- -------

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with Ellen. I was diagnosed with late stage neuro Lyme and went on

various combos of ABXs including 4 months IV. I had some improvement but never

even got a remission. I wanted to do Buhner's protocol but my LLMD (member of

ILADS) asked me to wait until I was finished with ABXs as he wouldn't know which

agents were working or causing side effects. He took me off all ABXs after 12

months because I was losing weight, very drowsy every day and not getting

better. He told me not to take anymore ABXs for Lyme. This coming from an LLMD

who was a founding member of ILADS who has spent 20+ years treating tick-borne

illnesses and doing research.

I put myself on Buhner's core protocol a month ago. Glad to hear of someone's

success on this protocol. So far I feel a lot like I did on IV ABXs except I've

been able to gain a couple of pounds (which is good, I only weigh 108 lbs).

Hoping the symptoms flare-up is being caused by die-off.

Antibiotics have significant risks and don't always work. I'm glad I tried them

as I was about to become bedridden. I did improve about 50%. My LLMD told me

when he took me off ABXs that my immune system needed to rebuild itself.

Kim

[ ] new and really need advice

>

> Date: Saturday, March 5, 2011, 1:58 PM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> hello all,

>

>

>

> I need some help. Hopefully someone will know.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Remember to detox. Lymeover

Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

[ ] new and really need advice

> >

> > Date: Saturday, March 5, 2011, 1:58 PM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > hello all,

> >

> >

> >

> > I need some help. Hopefully someone will know.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >