Re: new and really need advice

December 4, 2008

You're learning doctors are not trustworthy, nor do they necessarily

actually know what they're talking about.

When peter was 6 months old, the doc told me 'the shots are fine as long as

they don't have a fever " .. I said, no we're not shooting him w/ anything,

he's got a bad cold " . went home and found the package insert online and it

said itself that his symptoms contraindicated that shot for him!!! doctors

don't even know what the contraindications are. They're so brainwashed that

vaccines are safe no matter what?! It's how they act.

I would not even do an alt. schedule. vaccines, even given singly, can harm.

The kid can be 25 and it can harm. They can be 200 pounds and it can harm.

Vaccines harm. The safest course is NONE at all, ever. Period.

I would be livid. It was bad enough when jessica was 2 and getting 'caught

up " and I told them I didn't want her to get the CP shot.. " oh we don't

give that one yet anyway " . BS! And guess what was on the list for me to sign

and I missed b/c I was looking for chicken pox and not varicella?!.. yes..

you guessed it. Varicella. And my initials. If looks could kill!

The shots, even 1 at a time, will not protect your baby but will introduce

plenty of crap into her system and her immature immune system. Health does

not come through a needle. I have 2 unvaxxed kids and they're very healthy,

even with a not wonderful diet.. my 3 y.o. especially. His diet is terrible

but he's still pretty healthy. I breastfed him 2 years and avoided vaccines

and we homeschool. he's in preschool now though so he brings home quite a

many colds. It is driving me nuts! I can't wait for preschool to be done.

I'd definitely tell off the doctors. They did not do what was 1/ agreed and

2/ asked for that day

Don't think the FDA will see your cause for alarm but it's worth a try.

Nita (crew chief) and the crew: 15, Jon 14, 11, 9,

7, Christian (7/16/03 to 8/22/04), 3 and Isaac, 2/3/08

http://momof6.dotphoto.com <http://momof6.dotphoto.com/> for not

necessarily current pictures and http://nitasspot.blogspot.com

Come, PLAY!! http://www.discoverytoyslink.com/nitagarner

Learn from the mistakes of others. Trust me... you can't live long enough

to make them all yourself.

December 4, 2008

I think you are learning you may not be able to dance so close to this

fire.

Liz

>

> You're learning doctors are not trustworthy, nor do they necessarily

> actually know what they're talking about.

>

> When peter was 6 months old, the doc told me 'the shots are fine as

long as

> they don't have a fever " .. I said, no we're not shooting him w/

anything,

> he's got a bad cold " . went home and found the package insert online

and it

> said itself that his symptoms contraindicated that shot for him!!!

doctors

> don't even know what the contraindications are. They're so

brainwashed that

> vaccines are safe no matter what?! It's how they act.

>

> I would not even do an alt. schedule. vaccines, even given singly,

can harm.

> The kid can be 25 and it can harm. They can be 200 pounds and it can

harm.

> Vaccines harm. The safest course is NONE at all, ever. Period.

>

> I would be livid. It was bad enough when jessica was 2 and getting

'caught

> up " and I told them I didn't want her to get the CP shot.. " oh we don't

> give that one yet anyway " . BS! And guess what was on the list for me

to sign

> and I missed b/c I was looking for chicken pox and not varicella?!..

yes..

> you guessed it. Varicella. And my initials. If looks could kill!

>

> The shots, even 1 at a time, will not protect your baby but will

introduce

> plenty of crap into her system and her immature immune system.

Health does

> not come through a needle. I have 2 unvaxxed kids and they're very

healthy,

> even with a not wonderful diet.. my 3 y.o. especially. His diet is

terrible

> but he's still pretty healthy. I breastfed him 2 years and avoided

vaccines

> and we homeschool. he's in preschool now though so he brings home

quite a

> many colds. It is driving me nuts! I can't wait for preschool to be

done.

>

> I'd definitely tell off the doctors. They did not do what was 1/

agreed and

> 2/ asked for that day

>

> Don't think the FDA will see your cause for alarm but it's worth a try.

>

> Nita (crew chief) and the crew: 15, Jon 14, 11, 9,

> 7, Christian (7/16/03 to 8/22/04), 3 and Isaac, 2/3/08

> http://momof6.dotphoto.com <http://momof6.dotphoto.com/> for not

> necessarily current pictures and http://nitasspot.blogspot.com

>

> Come, PLAY!! http://www.discoverytoyslink.com/nitagarner

>

> Learn from the mistakes of others. Trust me... you can't live long

enough

> to make them all yourself.

>

December 4, 2008

You know, it is true that I do have a feeling of being violated, or really my

baby being violated. It is wrong and it can't be undone. However, I am not

sure it was done intentionally and I feel more that we may have been victims of

drive-through, in-and-out quick pediatrics (pretty much what the typical

vaccination schedule is, right?). I think he had drawn the vaccine already and

either didn't feel like dumping it and didn't think it mattered, or didn't read

my schedule closely enough. I tend to think that they are so used to doing it

their way that my schedule really threw a wrench in his plans and he didn't know

what to do or it was a miscommunication of some kind (don't know how exactly

because he seemed to look over the schedule well and even commented on it, but I

couldn't read his mind if he was distracted or something), or at least I guess

I'm hoping so.

I mean, I thought we had a great relationship up until now, although I was quite

miffed about his venting to me because I thought that I deserved a lot more

respect regarding medical decision making and child-rearing philosophies than

that, having worked with all the pediatricians there closely with my son's

issues over many years. I thought their perception of me was quite good up to

now, a strong advocate yet a team player who is extremely involved in her

children's medical issues and educational development. Up to now they seemed to

respect my decisions and be fairly open minded. I have worked in the medical

field in the past and am familiar with medical terminology and do a ton of

research, so am able to communicate to them in their medical-ease and ask

relevant questions. Maybe I had it all wrong though, not sure anymore.

From what little research I've done, I think a lawyer would not be involved

unless she were actually injured from this, which she isn't clinically as of

yet, but who knows? I do feel the need to document this though. I'm going to

give one or several lawyers a call tomorrow just to see, but I think that is the

case. Anyone know for sure?

I talked with DH at length tonight and we haven't decided about

switching practices or just maybe avoiding this one from now on. We're not

sure. Like I said, they may kick us out after Monday anyway, so we'll see. It

is so hard to change because of my son and all his issues and they know him

well, in fact, this doctor seemed to always be the most concerned about him and

know the most about his conditions (we have met many docs over the years who

knew surprisingly little about his condiitons or had very outdated information,

so he had been very refreshing).

Ahhhhh, I don't know. I'm not feeling that great anyway, rainy day cold weather

blues or baby blues or preholiday blues, I don't know, but I did not need this

additional issue heaped on right now.

Consider It Done Transcription Services

http://www.consideritdonetranscription.com

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From: elpiratayelperico@... <elpiratayelperico@...>

Subject: Re: New and really need advice

cabevizzo@...

Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 9:48 PM

OMG, I would that inject that doctor with his own poison!! I usually just lurk

here, but that is just wrong! Call a lawyer and see if you have a case, if you

don't protect your baby, who will? Who will he do it to next, in my opinion

it is the equivalent of medical rape! Please don't go back there with ANY

of your precious babies! This " doctor " has no respect for you, he

thinks you are uneducated and a fool, prove him wrong!

December 4, 2008

,

Let this be a wake-up call to you:

The doctor was not honest with you, not when he gave your child what he knew you

didn't want, not when he represented himself as someone who holds your child's

health as a top priority, and--this is important--when he told you through words

or actions that vaccines will protect your child.

They don't work. All of this grief you went through in an effort to protect your

daughter was based on lies. Vaccines harm. Please realize there is no safe, slow

way to vaccinate your children. Slowly administered poison is still poison.

Now for what to do. Let me be blunt. It is not your job to educate your doctor

and it won't work anyway. I think that's pretty clear from his rant job on you.

This was not a medical error, he won't sign anything and you are directing your

energy to reprimanding this fool when it's better spent on finding a good lawyer

and suing his sorry ass.

I don't know if it will get you anywhere. After all, you did allow him to

vaccinate your daughter, you didn't verify what he gave her (not your

fault--just listing facts), and I really have no idea what laws he could have

broken. BUT with all the papers they are requiring parents to sign, there must

be some basis for a lawsuit. However, suing him won't suck that vaccine back out

of your daughter.

Yes, you should do something more about it. You should run the other way from

this charlatan, and others like him. You should reevaluate your decision to

vaccinate on an alternative schedule. I am furious for you, and so sorry someone

who was being so careful about their child's health was tricked by an arrogant

and disrepectful doctor (no matter how great you think he is).

I don't know anything about mitochondrial disorders other than I suspect they

are from vaccines. It sounds as if you have a lot on your plate with the

upcoming medical procedures. I would get past those first so you don't get

overwhelmed.

On the upside, it's good to hear that the peds are getting questioned about

vaccines to the point of uncontrollable, unprofessional ranting but sorry you

were the target.

Now I'm done with my ranting. Good luck with whatever you decide to do. Please

keep us updated.

Winnie

New and really need advice

Vaccinations

> Hi all,

>

> I'm new here and was wondering if I could get your advice on

> something. I took 6-month-old DD to the pediatrician on 11/17

> for

> her well child and shots. She is on an alternative vaccination

> schedule that I requested because I'm uncomfortable with giving

> her

> so many shots at once at such a young age, and shots like the

> RotaTeq

> and Hep B and flu she is not getting at all. So last time I

> went in

> we got my favorite doc and it's his first time seeing DD, but he

> knows me and my twin boys very well, one of whom has major

> medical

> and developmental issues including Down syndrome, cleft

> lip/palate,

> and autism. The doc had all the vaccinations ready (he was

> going to

> give her the typical four separate shots containing 8

> vaccinations;

> Rotavirus, HIB, Prevnar, and Pedarix (conjugate of DTaP, Hep B,

> IPV

> (IPV is really three separate, so really 10 in all)) and as soon

> as I

> realized he was filling syringes I told him that no we were on

> an alt

> vacc schedule and she was only supposed to get the one single

> DTaP

> today. The schedule is scanned in their electronic records

> laptop,

> but he didn't look or see it so I showed him the copy that I

> bring

> with me every time. He looked it over (quite carefully as he

> commented negatively on several items such as the declined

> vaccinations and the titers prior to boosters) and gave her one

> vaccination.

>

> He then proceeded to get all ticked off and vented his general

> frustrations of parents questioning vaccines to me for about 5-

> 10

> minutes straight. I was quite surprised because I had never

> seen him

> like this, but it was almost to the point that I was about to

> ask my

> typically-developing, all ears 8-year-old to go out in the

> waiting

> room as I didn't want him hearing any more of his rant. I took

> it as

> not toward me directly, but that he was not happy about this alt

> vaccination schedule (it was approved at her first visit by one

> of

> the other docs in the practice, not without lengthy discussion),

> but

> was more frustrated at so many parents questioning the shots all

> the

> time and the internet, and maybe he felt that since he knew me

> so

> well that he could vent a little. It was a little upsetting and

> annoying, but docs are people too so I let it roll and chalked

> it up

> to him having a bad day or something. He's a great guy and we

> have

> never had a problem in 9 years of serious health issues with DS,

> so I

> didn't say much or make waves.

>

> Well, I went to file the paperwork today and looked carefully at

> it

> and it said she got the Pediarix shot that day, the one with

> five

> different vaccinations in one shot...DTaP (3 vaccinations), Hep

> B,

> and IPV (polio, but technically 3 vaccinations also, so really 7

> total). We had not wanted the Hep B (declined from birth and it

> stated on my paper that we were declining that one) and she had

> just

> gotten the IPV and Prevnar at the previous visit 20 days prior

> (less

> than a month because we had to reschedule the appointment). Now

> that

> throws the IPV all off schedule (and the minimum wait time

> between

> IPV shots is supposed to be 4 weeks!) and she has the extra Hep

> B

> that I was avoiding. What the h***?!?

>

> I sort of can't believe it really. I called the office and the

> secretary was totally confused, so she was having the nurse

> practitioner call me back with more info. She never called, so

> I

> called them back and the secretary told me that the NP is giving

> a

> note to the original doc, who will call back next week on

> Wednesday.

> Hello, was anyone going to tell me this? Do I not deserve to be

> called back promptly about this? I told her that I wanted a doc

> to

> call me back today. One did finally after 6 pm and he did

> verify

> that it stated that she got the Pediarix, verified that it does

> contain all the extra shots and that the IPV was given too

> early, and

> that the original doc will call me on Monday.

>

> I am upset. I am going to call the office tomorrow to schedule

> an in-

> person appointment with the doc on Monday to discuss this face

> to

> face. I am going to report it to the FDA and another agency as

> a

> medication error so that I have some " official " record of it,

> and I

> will tell him I am doing this and attempt to get him to sign it

> as

> well. I will write a letter to him and/or the office to be put

> into

> her medical records, for documentation purposes. I will try not

> to

> get mad and see what his explanation is. I will go in prepared

> with

> information on vaccinations and either with my DH to help with

> the

> kids or alone without my children so I can concentrate and

> advocate

> and perhaps educate him a little or open his mind about

> vaccinations. Heck, they may kick me out of the practice after

> Monday so I won't have to make a decision about leaving, I don't

> know. But I am going to try to do it in a professional and calm

> manner.

>

> Should I do anything more about it? I guess options could

> include

> anything from ignoring it (but it is important to us and I went

> to

> great lengths and did a lot of reading to come up with this and

> it

> was approved by the other physician as covering her

> immunizations),

> writing a letter to the office (pretty sure I'm going to do

> this),

> reporting it as a medication error (definitely going to do

> this),

> switching offices (not sure if I want to do this because of the

> long

> and good history we have with the office with my other son), or

> even

> hiring a lawyer or something (yikes, wouldn't really want to

> do).

> What do you think I should do?

>

> I mean, I sit here with a kid who has autism, which he and we

> certainly do not need along with two other major medical issues

> of

> Down syndrome and cleft lip/palate (neither of which OB/GYNs did

> not

> detect in pregnancy (not that we would have done anything and we

> wouldn't trade him for the world, but would have liked to have

> known

> especially since it was a twin birth), but that is another

> story, but

> one which began making me question docs and become a very strong

> advocate). I certainly want to do all I can to protect another

> one

> of my children from getting autism or anything else that might

> result

> from the administration of vaccinations (I had a friend who

> receives

> compensation for vaccine injury of her son who had a devastating

> reaction) if that is possible, while at the same time

> vaccinating on

> a one-or-two-at-a-time delayed alternate schedule and declining

> some

> vaccinations. We homeschool, so I could have just said to hell

> with

> all the vaccinations, but it is our philosophy that we do want

> some

> vaccinations, but separated and when she is not as young. We

> thought

> this would be a happy medium and it gave us some level of

> comfort.

>

> So this vaccination throws the whole thing off and it really

> pisses

> me off now that I sat there listening to him vent while he did

> this

> to my precious infant daughter. I will now check the

> vaccination

> containers they draw from prior to the administration of the

> vaccine.

> It makes me mad that I have to handhold doctors so much and so

> often,

> but apparently I have no choice and must get extremely anally

> explicit in my instructions and oversight.

>

> I am pretty upset over this and am not sure what else to do. I

> was

> wondering what you thought and if you had any additional advice.

>

> Also, I was thinking maybe my story might be of some help to

> anyone

> here who may be choosing an alternative vaccination

> schedule...check

> the containers closely to make sure they are following your

> directions!!

>

> Also, with the new information about the mitochondrial issues

> potentially being a problem, how can you test for mitochondrial

> disorders? What is a mitochondrial disorder and is it

> symptomatic?

> What tests would be necessary? Is it possible to retroactively

> test

> children with autism for mitochondrial disorder to see if the

> vaccination may have combined with that to cause the autism? Is

> any

> of this type of retroactive research being done? Sorry, these

> may be

> dumb or out of date questions, but I have lots of medical

> diagnoses

> to deal with here as well as an upcoming deep sedation CAT scan

> and

> three upcoming surgeries for DS, and it's hard to keep totally

> up to

> date on all the current info and research on all of them.

> Thanks so

> much in advance.

>

December 4, 2008

I am not sure how to say this. If it doesn't come out right, understand there is

no

bad feelings directed toward you. I have faced off with doctors many times over

the past

30 years. I couldn't even finish reading your letter because I was so pissed.

Not at you but the enstein doctor of yours.

I don't think you have a leg to stand on in court, because these bastards

literally have a license to kill.

Having said that I do hope you face off with the S.O.B. and blow his arrogant

ass away. He wasn't having a bad day.

He resented your telling him how to take care of your child. All doctors are

nice.....until you stand up for yourself and challenge them.. Then their bedside

manor takes off its mask. Doctors are actually taught how to control and

intimidate people in all situations. That's why they always have a quick answer

when confronted with questions they don;t feel comfortable with. I feel your

pain, dismay, hurt, feeling of betrayal and anger.

I can't tell you what to do, but I will suggest you do what you feel needs to

be done.

Jim

________________________________

From: " wharrison@... " <wharrison@...>

Vaccinations

Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 11:54:07 PM