Guest guest Posted April 5, 2008 Report Share Posted April 5, 2008 Regarding copper: i thought cowden mentioned zeolite as chelating copper but not sure. all i found was this: Vegans and vegetarians often eat soy products to boost their protein intake. Yet Reist, who treats Lyme patients in her Pennsylvania clinic, worries that the patients who eat soy may risk getting too much copper in their diets. Soy is high in copper, and evidence suggests that patients trying to heal from Lyme must also get rid of an overload of metals, including copper, mercury, lead and aluminum. She asks her patients to consider eating animal protein such as eggs, fish or whey while fighting Lyme. http://www.lyme-disease-research-database.com/lyme_disease_blog_files/ category-lyme-disease-treatment.html Steve On Apr 5, 2008, at 6:25 AM, carolyntriance wrote: > I have just had some intricate blood test results that show some > copper toxicity: copper has replaced manganese on several of the > receptors at cell level and there is consequent subnormal zinc. > > Lipoic acid seems to have mixed results with copper and may increase > its build-up, since it causes more to be excreted in urine, but less > in the bowel. This may be relevant in my case since I have been using > it for 2 years for neuropathy. > > Does anyone know of an effective chelator for copper, amongst the > other heavy metals ,that does not include A/R Lipoic acid? I am hoping > to have some ideas before the follow-up with the doctor who ordered > the tests, so that I can make efficient use of the time allocated! > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Buy Healing Lyme: Natural Healing And Prevention of Lyme > Borreliosis And Its Coinfections by Buhner at one of these > locations: > http://tinyurl.com/3bgm5d > > Lyme Disease News continually updated from thousands of sources > around the net. http://www.topix.net/health/lyme-disease > > MedWorm > The latest items on: Lyme Disease > http://tinyurl.com/23dgy8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2008 Report Share Posted April 5, 2008 > > > I have just had some intricate blood test results that show some > > copper toxicity: copper has replaced manganese on several of the > > receptors at cell level and there is consequent subnormal zinc. > > > > Lipoic acid seems to have mixed results with copper and may increase > > its build-up, since it causes more to be excreted in urine, but less > > in the bowel. This may be relevant in my case since I have been using > > it for 2 years for neuropathy. > > > > Does anyone know of an effective chelator for copper, amongst the > > other heavy metals ,that does not include A/R Lipoic acid? I am hoping > > to have some ideas before the follow-up with the doctor who ordered > > the tests, so that I can make efficient use of the time allocated! > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Buy Healing Lyme: Natural Healing And Prevention of Lyme > > Borreliosis And Its Coinfections by Buhner at one of these > > locations: > > http://tinyurl.com/3bgm5d > > > > Lyme Disease News continually updated from thousands of sources > > around the net. http://www.topix.net/health/lyme-disease > > > > MedWorm > > The latest items on: Lyme Disease > > http://tinyurl.com/23dgy8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2008 Report Share Posted April 5, 2008 it does seem endless. i think there's a hierarchy of chelation. the body first discards nickel, lead, and i believe copper, before it gives up mercury, cadmium, arsenic, etc. Steve On Apr 5, 2008, at 1:52 PM, carolyntriance wrote: > >> >>> I have just had some intricate blood test results that show some >>> copper toxicity: copper has replaced manganese on several of the >>> receptors at cell level and there is consequent subnormal zinc. >>> >>> Lipoic acid seems to have mixed results with copper and may increase >>> its build-up, since it causes more to be excreted in urine, but less >>> in the bowel. This may be relevant in my case since I have been >>> using >>> it for 2 years for neuropathy. >>> >>> Does anyone know of an effective chelator for copper, amongst the >>> other heavy metals ,that does not include A/R Lipoic acid? I am >>> hoping >>> to have some ideas before the follow-up with the doctor who ordered >>> the tests, so that I can make efficient use of the time allocated! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> Buy Healing Lyme: Natural Healing And Prevention of Lyme >>> Borreliosis And Its Coinfections by Buhner at one of these >>> locations: >>> http://tinyurl.com/3bgm5d >>> >>> Lyme Disease News continually updated from thousands of sources >>> around the net. http://www.topix.net/health/lyme-disease >>> >>> MedWorm >>> The latest items on: Lyme Disease >>> http://tinyurl.com/23dgy8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2008 Report Share Posted April 5, 2008 NutraMedix Zeolite chelates Lead and Nickel. The new product Zeolite HP is said to chelate Aluminum, Arsenic, Barium, Cadmium, Lead, Mercury, Nickel, Radium, Silver, Tin, and Titanium. I do not know how effective it is yet. Anyway, neither of them chelate . When I first used it on my 5 years old, he developed diarrhea, so I stopped. I do plan to try it again, when my son's gut gets better. Limin [ ] Re: copper chelator > --- In , > Thanks, Steve for your info. Yes, soy seems to be a no-no, so no more > soya yogurt! > > I haven't yet checked the new Nutramedix zeolite product Dr K uses, > but I read somewhere else that zeolite is not a good copper chelator. > I'm still waiting for the other heavy metal results and I may well > have to go back on more aggressive stuff for lead and mercury as well > as the copper. Sometime it all seems endless! > > regards > > Carolyn > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2008 Report Share Posted April 6, 2008 > > NutraMedix Zeolite chelates Lead and Nickel. The new product Zeolite HP is > said to chelate Aluminum, Arsenic, Barium, Cadmium, Lead, Mercury, Nickel, > Radium, Silver, Tin, and Titanium. I do not know how effective it is yet. > Anyway, neither of them chelate . > > When I first used it on my 5 years old, he developed diarrhea, so I stopped. > I do plan to try it again, when my son's gut gets better. > > Limin > > [ ] Re: copper chelator > > > > --- In , > > Thanks, Steve for your info. Yes, soy seems to be a no-no, so no more > > soya yogurt! > > > > I haven't yet checked the new Nutramedix zeolite product Dr K uses, > > but I read somewhere else that zeolite is not a good copper chelator. > > I'm still waiting for the other heavy metal results and I may well > > have to go back on more aggressive stuff for lead and mercury as well > > as the copper. Sometime it all seems endless! > > > > regards > > > > Carolyn > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2008 Report Share Posted April 6, 2008 When used in cancer patients ( copper is believed to enhance angiogenesis in tumors), they use TM- (TTM)tetrathiomolybdate and monitor the ceruloplasmin levels.(ceruloplasmin carries 90% of the Copper in the blood)?Also used is NAC-N acetyl Cysteine- Id get advice about how LOW youd want to go once you start to lessen Cu levels some copper is needed for immune system!! TTM also used after stents/cardiac surgery to quell inflammation and new growth of tissue into blood vessels/stents as well as in arthritis research as anti=inflammatory EXCELLENT info from?an article from Cancerfoundation.com: The serum copper levels in the body will lower with the ceruloplasmin levels, although in the first few weeks of TM therapy they may appear higher because TM chelates copper and then is bound to blood proteins and circulates before being eliminated from the body. Serum copper levels are useful to measure prior to starting chelation with TM and after at least a month on TM, after which point they will usually correlate with the ceruloplasmin level. When ceruloplasmin has been reduced to 20% of its baseline, serum copper will usually be below the lower limit of the range of normal. In contrast, zinc levels ideally should be at the high range of normal or even slightly above (though they are usually low when first measured in most cancer patients). ? A ratio of serum zinc levels approximately three times higher than copper levels appears to be optimal for immune function and angiogenesis blockade. The dose of TM used in the first phase of the University of Michigan study was one capsule (20mg of TM each) with meals and three capsules (60 mg) on an empty stomach. Taking the three " empty stomach " capsules in the middle of the night if one awakens to go to the bathroom seems to be the most effective in lowering ceruloplasmin levels. In a second phase of the U of M study the dose was increased to two capsules (40 mg TM) with meals and 3 capsules (60 mg) on an empty stomach. The higher dose was associated with more rapid drop in the ceruloplasmin level and showed no greater side effects (generally limited to sulfur smelling burps and occasional stomach upset, usually associated with taking the capsules on an empty stomach, and generally offset by eating a small amount of low copper food, such as rice crackers. The capsules taken with meals block the copper from absorbing into the body from food or drink intake. The capsules taken on an empty stomach bind and excrete residual copper from the body. This is important to remember when titrating (adjusting) the dose of the TM as ceruloplasmin levels near the desired target. Ceruloplasmin levels should be tested monthly to begin, then every two weeks as the target nears. Once the target is close, it should be tested weekly, continually, until the ceruloplasmin is successfully stabilized at the target level. Some patients experience increased fatigue for a time after reaching target ceruloplasmin levels, but this generally resolves over a few weeks to months as the body adjusts. No other consistent side effects have been associated with lowering ceruloplasmin levels to this range, though some patients have reported nocturnal leg cramps and constipation, both of which appear to respond to increased magnesium supplementation. If surgery is required it may be prudent to allow ceruloplasmin levels to elevate to the low range of normal for 6 weeks to ensure adequate angiogenesis for wound healing, and then lower them again to the target range. Another copper chelating compound, widely available in health food stores, and less expensive than TM is N-acetyl cysteine (NAC). Taken in amounts of 2-4 grams (2,000-4,000 mg), starting with 500 mg. daily and gradually increasing to 4 divided doses of 500-1000 mg. each, it can significantly lower copper levels in the body, though more slowly than TM. It too is quite non-toxic, and also can help to raise levels of glutathione in cells, one of the body's major anti-oxidant systems. It can be useful, along with zinc supplements in maintaining target ceruloplasmin levels after lowering them with TM, and may be used in place of TM in cases where developing angiogenesis blockade is not an urgent issue. Also available through health food stores and compounding pharmacies is the anti-oxidant alpha-lipoic acid (ALA-- also known as thioctic acid). This is another non-toxic sulfhydryl containing compound that will chelate copper, as well as some other heavy metals, in doses of 100-400 mg./day; it is best absorbed on an empty stomach. Larger doses are difficult to find as individual supplements, but can be compounded on prescription by a compounding pharmacy. In some cases ceruloplasmin comes down very slowly or not at all, despite doses of TM up to 200 mg. per day. This is possibly related to increased hepatic need for sulfur compounds which results in use of TM as a sulfur source, not allowing it to circulate and chelate copper. In such cases it is often useful to add other nutritional sources of sulfur, such as N-acetyl cysteine (NAC) and alpha-lipoic acid (ALA) as well as others, such as the amino acid l-taurine (500-1000 mg. per day) or MSM (methyl sulfonyl methane), 500 mg-2000mg daily in divided doses. Serum copper and serum zinc levels should be tested monthly, until the zinc to copper ratio has been near 3 for several months. It is important to have blood drawn prior to taking any zinc supplements for the day, as oral intake of zinc prior to blood draw may falsely elevate the serum zinc level. The copper chelating strategy is a long-term strategy. An example of titration of one patient's ceruloplasmin levels with TM is as follows: (although Cp levels were monitored weekly in this example, intervals as noted above are generally adequate) baseline Cp 42.-target 8. Began TM 40 mg three times daily with meals, 60 mg. empty stomach. END QUOTE as always have a knowledgeable professional advise you--we are not medical professionals and can only rpovide information, not medical advice!! be well Finette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2008 Report Share Posted April 7, 2008 > > When used in cancer patients ( copper is believed to enhance angiogenesis in tumors), they use TM- (TTM)tetrathiomolybdate and monitor the ceruloplasmin levels.(ceruloplasmin carries 90% of the Copper in the blood)?Also used is NAC-N acetyl Cysteine- Id get advice about how LOW youd want to go once you start to lessen Cu levels > some copper is needed for immune system!! > > TTM also used after stents/cardiac surgery to quell inflammation and new growth of tissue into blood vessels/stents > as well as in arthritis research as anti=inflammatory > > EXCELLENT info from?an article from Cancerfoundation.com: > > > The serum copper levels in the body will lower with the ceruloplasmin levels, although in the first few weeks of TM therapy they may appear higher because TM chelates copper and then is bound to blood proteins and circulates before being eliminated from the body. Serum copper levels are useful to measure prior to starting chelation with TM and after at least a month on TM, after which point they will usually correlate with the ceruloplasmin level. When ceruloplasmin has been reduced to 20% of its baseline, serum copper will usually be below the lower limit of the range of normal. In contrast, zinc levels ideally should be at the high range of normal or even slightly above (though they are usually low when first measured in most cancer patients). > ? > A ratio of serum zinc levels approximately three times higher than copper levels appears to be optimal for immune function and angiogenesis blockade. The dose of TM used in the first phase of the University of Michigan study was one capsule (20mg of TM each) with meals and three capsules (60 mg) on an empty stomach. Taking the three " empty stomach " capsules in the middle of the night if one awakens to go to the bathroom seems to be the most effective in lowering ceruloplasmin levels. In a second phase of the U of M study the dose was increased to two capsules (40 mg TM) with meals and 3 capsules (60 mg) on an empty stomach. The higher dose was associated with more rapid drop in the ceruloplasmin level and showed no greater side effects (generally limited to sulfur smelling burps and occasional stomach upset, usually associated with taking the capsules on an empty stomach, and generally offset by eating a small amount of low copper food, such as rice crackers. > > > > > The capsules taken with meals block the copper from absorbing into the body from food or drink intake. The capsules taken on an empty stomach bind and excrete residual copper from the body. This is important to remember when titrating (adjusting) the dose of the TM as ceruloplasmin levels near the desired target. > > Ceruloplasmin levels should be tested monthly to begin, then every two weeks as the target nears. Once the target is close, it should be tested weekly, continually, until the ceruloplasmin is successfully stabilized at the target level. > > Some patients experience increased fatigue for a time after reaching target ceruloplasmin levels, but this generally resolves over a few weeks to months as the body adjusts. No other consistent side effects have been associated with lowering ceruloplasmin levels to this range, though some patients have reported nocturnal leg cramps and constipation, both of which appear to respond to increased magnesium supplementation. If surgery is required it may be prudent to allow ceruloplasmin levels to elevate to the low range of normal for 6 weeks to ensure adequate angiogenesis for wound healing, and then lower them again to the target range. > > > > Another copper chelating compound, widely available in health food stores, and less expensive than TM is N-acetyl cysteine (NAC). Taken in amounts of 2-4 grams (2,000-4,000 mg), starting with 500 mg. daily and gradually increasing to 4 divided doses of 500-1000 mg. each, it can significantly lower copper levels in the body, though more slowly than TM. It too is quite non-toxic, and also can help to raise levels of glutathione in cells, one of the body's major anti-oxidant systems. It can be useful, along with zinc supplements in maintaining target ceruloplasmin levels after lowering them with TM, and may be used in place of TM in cases where developing angiogenesis blockade is not an urgent issue. > > Also available through health food stores and compounding pharmacies is the anti-oxidant alpha-lipoic acid (ALA-- also known as thioctic acid). This is another non-toxic sulfhydryl containing compound that will chelate copper, as well as some other heavy metals, in doses of 100-400 mg./day; it is best absorbed on an empty stomach. Larger doses are difficult to find as individual supplements, but can be compounded on prescription by a compounding pharmacy. In some cases ceruloplasmin comes down very slowly or not at all, despite doses of TM up to 200 mg. per day. This is possibly related to increased hepatic need for sulfur compounds which results in use of TM as a sulfur source, not allowing it to circulate and chelate copper. In such cases it is often useful to add other nutritional sources of sulfur, such as N-acetyl cysteine (NAC) and alpha-lipoic acid (ALA) as well as others, such as the amino acid l-taurine (500-1000 mg. per day) or MSM (methyl sulfonyl methane), 500 mg-2000mg daily in divided doses. > > > > Serum copper and serum zinc levels should be tested monthly, until the zinc to copper ratio has been near 3 for several months. It is important to have blood drawn prior to taking any zinc supplements for the day, as oral intake of zinc prior to blood draw may falsely elevate the serum zinc level. The copper chelating strategy is a long-term strategy. An example of titration of one patient's ceruloplasmin levels with TM is as follows: (although Cp levels were monitored weekly in this example, intervals as noted above are generally adequate) baseline Cp 42.-target 8. Began TM 40 mg three times daily with meals, 60 mg. empty stomach. > > END QUOTE > > > > as always have a knowledgeable professional advise you--we are not medical professionals and can only rpovide information, not medical advice!! > > be well > Finette > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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