Re: BVT .... live bees vs injections

[Guest guest]

Byron,

No studies done to my knowledge. Some in the apitherapy world would

tell you that injection is like a dead leaf vs. the actual sting

being like a live leaf. There may be something lost in the

transition, however, I have seen anidoctal evidence of injection

being very effective. A pain specialist in the next state over uses

injection with great success. How do you have access to injecion? I

think it would be much easier, and would love to actually go that

route myself, but no docs in this area are familiar with or will

prescribe.

Chris

> Hello Group...

>

> I have been following the discussions of BVT with great interest.

I

> was wondering if anybody has personal experience or info on success

> of using live bees vs injectable bee venom. I have access to

> injectable and wanted to see if its capable of having the same

> results as the live bees. What do the experts in BVT say about

this.

> What would be a good book or source to gain information on this

> therapy.

>

> Thanks,

> Byron

[Guest guest]

Amber Rose is the expert int he field and sent me her CD which makes

her book readable on MS Word. Here's what she says about injectable

vs: real:

IS ALL INJECTABLE BEE VENOM THE SAME?

No, not all bee venom is created equal. Simic's venom is now

considered to be the standard for venom in the US, according to the

FDA. Everything else is measured against his venom. The venom from

Europe and Asia is often polluted with feces, pollen and honey.

Simic's whole dried venom and solution are available from

Apitronics Services: msimics@...

HOW MANY BEES DOES IT TAKE TO MAKE ONE GRAM OF PURE BEE VENOM?

Charlie Mraz stated that one gram of his dry venom is the product of

approximately 10,000 bees. His " normal " bee venom solution is mixed

in a ratio of 1 milligram of dry venom to 1 cc of isotonic solution.

In this case, one tenth of a milliliter is equal to one bee sting.

Obviously, all injectable bee venom will vary in strength based on

the proportions of ingredients used.

Bee venom prepared for injection is approximately 1/20th the strength

of one live bee sting. These injections can be useful for local

ailments such as scars and relief of some chronic pain conditions

such as phantom limb syndrome, low back pain, whiplash, sciatica. The

live bees are much more effective, however, for treating systemic

conditions, whether chronic or acute.

[Guest guest]

Opinions seem to vary quite a bit on which is better or basically if

injectible is as effective as the fresh product. Professional health

care providers use injectible because of convenience,

standardization, and probably liability issues. Lay apitherapists

basically always use live bees. To play it safe, I would go with the

live bees which obviously have the whole and pure aspect. Injectible

is also more expensive and many people can't afford to go to a

proffesional 3x a week for injections. And really why bother? If

you were able to get it and do the injections yourself, it might be a

good option in winter when bees are harder to get, and the venom is

weaker because the bees don't get pollen in the diet.

My thoughts on the two

Pros of injectible:

*less painful if mixed with procaine

*standardized (so what)

*convenient?

*some authors in the past reported less likelihood of negative

reaction, but the products ore not the same now and the likelihood of

really negative reaction is already quite low.

*more acceptable to some patients with fear of being stung with live

bees. (of course some people are afraid of needles too)

*More acceptible to medical establishment?

Pros of live bees:

*Convenient?

*sustainable (no throwaway plastic stuff)

*neato factor

*unchanged fresh whole venom (of debatable worth but why not err on

the safe side.

* " Free " if you get your own hive, or can get them from a local bee keeper.

A good source of information is the apitherapy-L list which you can

join from http://www.apitherapy.com Also consider joining the

American Apitherapy Socienty (AAS) who put out a journal and give you

access to contacts and publish a cd rom database.

Here also is bibliography and weblinks that I have posted

before, but when there was less interest in BVT.

BIBLIOGRAPHY

Bees Don't Get Arthritis: Fred Malone

Easy to read intro to concepts of BVT (bee venom therapy). Not a how too.

How Well Are You Willing to Bee: Pat Wagner

More of a how too book, geared toward MS

http://www.olg.com/beelady/

Health and the Honeybee: Mraz

Simple and short by one of BVT's biggest promoters

Bee in Balance: Amber Rose

1994 ASIN #: 0964181002

Emphasis on treating MS and stinging on Acupuncture points.

http://www.amberrose.com/

Bee Venom Therapy: Bodog F Beck

Supposed to be the definitive work on the subject. Includes much

information on the work of other practicioners. Geared toward

" arthritis and rheumatism " Available through AAS.

D. Appleton Century Co. NY 1935

Bee Venom, the Natural curative For Arthritis and Rheumatism

ph Broadman

G.P. Putnams Sons NY 1962

Bee Venom: Exploring the Healing Power

Simics

Apitronics Publishing

Richmond BC 1994

ISBN: 0969765401

http://www.direct.ca/beevenom/

WEBLINKS

Amber rose: Bee in Balance

http://www.amberrose.com/

Apitronics

http://www.direct.ca/beevenom/

Useful site

http://www.apitherapy.com/

Pat Wagner: How well are you willing to Bee

http://www.olg.com/beelady/

American Apitherapy Society

http://apitherapy.org/

GLORYBEE: SOURCE OF PROPOLIS, POLLEN, ETC...

http://www.glorybee.com/mail.html

>Hello Group...

>

>I have been following the discussions of BVT with great interest. I

>was wondering if anybody has personal experience or info on success

>of using live bees vs injectable bee venom. I have access to

>injectable and wanted to see if its capable of having the same

>results as the live bees. What do the experts in BVT say about this.

>What would be a good book or source to gain information on this

>therapy.

>

>Thanks,

>Byron

[Guest guest]

---

Hi

Thankyou for the information...I have access to bv injections through

a doctor I know...I am going to discuss it with him shortly and what

I find out I will post...

Byron

In @y..., " noodlydoo " <noo.dle@v...> wrote:

> Byron,

>

> No studies done to my knowledge. Some in the apitherapy world

would

> tell you that injection is like a dead leaf vs. the actual sting

> being like a live leaf. There may be something lost in the

> transition, however, I have seen anidoctal evidence of injection

> being very effective. A pain specialist in the next state over

uses

> injection with great success. How do you have access to injecion?

I

> think it would be much easier, and would love to actually go that

> route myself, but no docs in this area are familiar with or will

> prescribe.

>

> Chris

>

>

> > Hello Group...

> >

> > I have been following the discussions of BVT with great interest.

> I

> > was wondering if anybody has personal experience or info on

success

> > of using live bees vs injectable bee venom. I have access to

> > injectable and wanted to see if its capable of having the same

> > results as the live bees. What do the experts in BVT say about

> this.

> > What would be a good book or source to gain information on this

> > therapy.

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Byron