Re: LDN with opiates

[Guest guest]

If you are dependent on Oxycontin and have been on it daily longterm then LDN

will block the effects of the med causing you to go into withdrawal. If you are

not dependent on the med then you need to space some hours your LDN time from

your pain med time. Check with Skip at Skip's Pharmacy www.skipspharmacy.com on

how many hours to space the two meds.

, LDN user over 7yrs

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> I have just started LDN and when I asked the pharmacist about taking oxycontin

with LDN he said it is fine..I have seen other posts where LDN is not advised

with opiates..He said that the LDN since it is so low actually helps along with

the oxy. If the LDN starts working my hope is to get off the opiates

completely...Any thoughts...

>

[Guest guest]

"I have just started LDN and when I asked the pharmacist about taking oxycontin with LDN he said it is fine..I have seen other posts where LDN is not advised with opiates..He said that the LDN since it is so low actually helps along with the oxy. If the LDN starts working my hope is to get off the opiates completely...Any thoughts."..LOW DOSE NALTREXONE SHOULD NEVER BE TAKEN WITH ANY OPIATE!!!!!!!! This is one of the cases where some pharmacists should keep their mouths shut because they could potentially kill some one. What this pharmacist should have said that ULTRA LOW DOSE NALTREXONE is being studied. This is 10 micrograms per dose, and even at that I question the wisdom. .4.5mg of naltrexone would put you in narcotic withdrawal, a potential life threatening situation.

Dr.Skip

[Guest guest]

One week after starting LDN, 2.5 mg, he was mistakenly taken off Clonazepam over 3 weeks instead of 1 year. He suffered a grand mal seizure and 6 small seizures within the hour of the grand mal. The ER doctor said that the 'withdrawal' from Clonazepam caused the seizure. I am wondering if having just introducing the LDN also played a part in the seizures? It has been 4 months post seizures and he is only getting his short term memory back, very slowly. This could have killed him, apparently. He is up to 4.5 mg of LDN and seems ok. He is not able to explain if he is noticing improvements from the LDN. He never went back on Clonazepam or any other anti-seizure drug. He was on Clonazepam for anxiety, not for seizure activity, which he dose not have.

[Guest guest]

I have 2 doctors, both who say LDN and opiates are fine, they say to take the opiates during the day and then the LDN at night. They have lots of paitents on combinations like LDN and tramadol or LDN and codeine. It seems to be a very devided issue. The main pharmacy that supplies the uk with LDN also say its fine to be on opiates too (but not to take within the same 4 hour window as it blocks the opiates)

[Guest guest]

"One week after starting LDN, 2.5 mg, he was mistakenly taken off Clonazepam over 3 weeks instead of 1 year. He suffered a grand mal seizure and 6 small seizures within the hour of the grand mal. The ER doctor said that the 'withdrawal' from Clonazepam caused the seizure. I am wondering if having just introducing the LDN also played a part in the seizures? It has been 4 months post seizures and he is only getting his short term memory back, very slowly. This could have killed him, apparently. He is up to 4.5 mg of LDN and seems ok. He is not able to explain if he is noticing improvements from the LDN. He never went back on Clonazepam or any other anti-seizure drug. He was on Clonazepam for anxiety, not for seizure activity, which he dose not have. "

This was a problem with the abrupt withdrawal of the clonazepam, not the introduction of the LDN! benzodiazepines can be really nasty withdrawals, as evidenced by this case.

Dr.Skip

[Guest guest]

You’re right, there is an undivided opinions. I would think these Drs are working on the basis of LDN clearing your system within a 4-6 hour period which is what you want to happen. However, there’s no proof this is happening (everyone metabolizes LDN differently). I was in a position earlier where it became a necessity for me to take painkillers and my partner was almost insisting I continue to take LDN where I was refusing. After much debate of this, he posted this to Dr Zagon and below was Dr Zagon’s response:- On 12/8/2010 5:07 PM, bwmbagus wrote: Hi, I am trying to resolve an issue concerning the use of opiate painkillers while using LDN. Is it ok to use opiates in the period when the LDN metabolisation is complete. Jayne has terrible hip pain and is unable to get a new hip due to her spina bifida causing spasms. Some doctors say we can use opiates in between LDN doses as long as we wait for the LDN to metabolise out, do you support this when the need for painkillers has become so high? Sent: 09 December 2010 01:11bwmbagusSubject: Re: LDN and opiates The bottom line: LDN is naltrexone. They block opiate (exogenous opioids) action - and can cause withdrawal if one uses opiates chronically. This is dangerous. And, the opiates may not work if naltrexone remains in some cells/plasma as the naltrexone will interfere with opiate interactions with opiate receptors. Yes, one might think that afte 4-6 hours all of the naltrexone leaves the system - but we really do not know if it leaves all of the cells. Especially those responsible for diminishing pain. A very " iffy " proposition to say the least if one wishes to use the opiates in this time interval. I might add that some folks " adapt " to LDN and their pharmacokinetics (metabolism of LDN) slows down, thereby extending the life of LDN - that is why I have recommended to many patients that if LDN is not working as well that they should take it every 2nd or 3rd - and they respond back shortly that all is fine again. But if LDN hangs around in some people, or that the metabolic features change, then one can't predict when opiates are blocked and when they might not be. Now the answer is to use opioid growth factor - methionine enkephalin. This is how LDN works, and it is far more powerful. Best of all, it not only diminishes pain, but one does not have to worry about a withdrawal reaction so opiates can be taken in conjunction with the opioid growth factor. Enkephalins by the way will react with pain receptors as well. I trust this helps. I emailed Dr Zagon afterwards as the painkillers in question were specifically co-codomol and tramadol. Jayne Crocker www.LDNNow.comImportant! Please sign our LDN petition to the European Parliament by clicking heretel: +44 (0) 7877 492 669Dr Steele MBE, talking about LDNLDNNow are a political/pressure group of individuals dedicated to getting Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN) accepted into modern medicine and trialled for the myriad of uses it shows benefit for. . From: low dose naltrexone [mailto:low dose naltrexone ] On Behalf Of viks@...Sent: 07 January 2011 15:07low dose naltrexone Subject: [low dose naltrexone] Re: LDN with opiates I have 2 doctors, both who say LDN and opiates are fine, they say to take the opiates during the day and then the LDN at night. They have lots of paitents on combinations like LDN and tramadol or LDN and codeine. It seems to be a very devided issue. The main pharmacy that supplies the uk with LDN also say its fine to be on opiates too (but not to take within the same 4 hour window as it blocks the opiates)

[Guest guest]

I meant to add, this does appear on the LDNScience.org site:-The strictly accurate definition of chemotherapy is the use of a chemical for treating a disease. However, the term " chemotherapy " is generally used only for cytotoxic drugs being used during cancer therapy. LDN is not a cytotoxic drug. Therefore using the accepted terminology, it would be wrong to call it chemotherapy. Can LDN be taken with tramadol? Tramadol is an opiate and therefore LDN will interfere with its action. It should only be combined with LDN under your doctor's supervision. LDN is likely to neutralize tramadol's pain relieving effect for several hoursAt this time there is no known contraindication concerning LDN and melatonin. LDN can be taken at any time of the day, so if it disturbs sleep it would be wise to take in the morning. Based on its mechanism of action, LDN could in theory work for any autoimmune disorder. There have been favorable reports of its usage in lupus, although no formal studies have been conducted. I have heard that LDN is used to enhance the effect of opioids and yet you warn not to take it with opioids. Please explain.There have been studies showing that ULDN - Ultra Low Dose Naltrexone enhances the effect of opioids. It does this by sensitizing the receptors, much in the way that LDN works. However the dose used is typically less than 10% of an LDN dose. Naltrexone at a dose of around 1 -2 mg will block the effect of opioids in most people, for a short time. If you want to avoid the loss of effect of the opioids drugs, even for a short time, you should avoid combining LDN with opioids. Jayne Crocker www.LDNNow.comImportant! Please sign our LDN petition to the European Parliament by clicking heretel: +44 (0) 7877 492 669Dr Steele MBE, talking about LDNLDNNow are a political/pressure group of individuals dedicated to getting Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN) accepted into modern medicine and trialled for the myriad of uses it shows benefit for. . From: jaynelcrocker [mailto:jaynelcrocker@...] Sent: 07 January 2011 17:18'low dose naltrexone 'Subject: RE: [low dose naltrexone] Re: LDN with opiates You’re right, there is an undivided opinions. I would think these Drs are working on the basis of LDN clearing your system within a 4-6 hour period which is what you want to happen. However, there’s no proof this is happening (everyone metabolizes LDN differently). I was in a position earlier where it became a necessity for me to take painkillers and my partner was almost insisting I continue to take LDN where I was refusing. After much debate of this, he posted this to Dr Zagon and below was Dr Zagon’s response:- On 12/8/2010 5:07 PM, bwmbagus wrote: Hi, I am trying to resolve an issue concerning the use of opiate painkillers while using LDN. Is it ok to use opiates in the period when the LDN metabolisation is complete. Jayne has terrible hip pain and is unable to get a new hip due to her spina bifida causing spasms. Some doctors say we can use opiates in between LDN doses as long as we wait for the LDN to metabolise out, do you support this when the need for painkillers has become so high? Sent: 09 December 2010 01:11bwmbagusSubject: Re: LDN and opiates The bottom line: LDN is naltrexone. They block opiate (exogenous opioids) action - and can cause withdrawal if one uses opiates chronically. This is dangerous. And, the opiates may not work if naltrexone remains in some cells/plasma as the naltrexone will interfere with opiate interactions with opiate receptors. Yes, one might think that afte 4-6 hours all of the naltrexone leaves the system - but we really do not know if it leaves all of the cells. Especially those responsible for diminishing pain. A very " iffy " proposition to say the least if one wishes to use the opiates in this time interval. I might add that some folks " adapt " to LDN and their pharmacokinetics (metabolism of LDN) slows down, thereby extending the life of LDN - that is why I have recommended to many patients that if LDN is not working as well that they should take it every 2nd or 3rd - and they respond back shortly that all is fine again. But if LDN hangs around in some people, or that the metabolic features change, then one can't predict when opiates are blocked and when they might not be. Now the answer is to use opioid growth factor - methionine enkephalin. This is how LDN works, and it is far more powerful. Best of all, it not only diminishes pain, but one does not have to worry about a withdrawal reaction so opiates can be taken in conjunction with the opioid growth factor. Enkephalins by the way will react with pain receptors as well. I trust this helps. I emailed Dr Zagon afterwards as the painkillers in question were specifically co-codomol and tramadol. Jayne Crocker www.LDNNow.comImportant! Please sign our LDN petition to the European Parliament by clicking heretel: +44 (0) 7877 492 669Dr Steele MBE, talking about LDNLDNNow are a political/pressure group of individuals dedicated to getting Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN) accepted into modern medicine and trialled for the myriad of uses it shows benefit for. . From: low dose naltrexone [mailto:low dose naltrexone ] On Behalf Of viks@...Sent: 07 January 2011 15:07low dose naltrexone Subject: [low dose naltrexone] Re: LDN with opiates I have 2 doctors, both who say LDN and opiates are fine, they say to take the opiates during the day and then the LDN at night. They have lots of paitents on combinations like LDN and tramadol or LDN and codeine. It seems to be a very devided issue. The main pharmacy that supplies the uk with LDN also say its fine to be on opiates too (but not to take within the same 4 hour window as it blocks the opiates)