Kidney Stones

[Guest guest]

Genetics DEFINITELY contribute, as do diet and where you live in the

country...environment. My husband and his family members have had LOTS of

stones and NO MGB...

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of LHBSW@...

Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 10:25 PM

Subject: Re: Kidney stones

Hi, It me- LeVerne. I had surgery 12-8-03 and I had a kidney stone in

February. Was able to pass it in about 2 weeks. I'm not sure about the

relationship between the surgery and the stones, but it would be interesting

to look

into. My brother had one about a year before me and he has not had MGB.

Makes me

wonder if genetics contribute as well.

[Guest guest]

is the stone oxalate???

ODonnell <jlod2@...> wrote:

Hi All,

I have a pt who has kidney stones, does anyone have any information that I could give to this pt? Low oxalate diet?

Thank you,

O'Donnell RD,LD

Southern Maine Medical Center

Biddeford, Me

04005

207-283-7148

Sell on Auctions - No fees. Bid on great items. __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Yes, low oxalate diet, make sure they are taking calcium citrate, not carbonate, and make sure they are getting enough fluids, that seems to be the main cause.

Walenta

Bariatric Dietitian Regional Hospital Pinehurst, NC (910) 715-7836

-----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of ODonnellSent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 11:09 AM Subject: kidney stones

Hi All,

I have a pt who has kidney stones, does anyone have any information that I could give to this pt? Low oxalate diet?

Thank you,

O'Donnell RD,LD

Southern Maine Medical Center

Biddeford, Me

04005

207-283-7148

Sell on Auctions - No fees. Bid on great items.

[Guest guest]

Does anyone know anything about oyster shell calcium vs citrate for stones?"Walenta, " <jwalenta@...> wrote:

Yes, low oxalate diet, make sure they are taking calcium citrate, not carbonate, and make sure they are getting enough fluids, that seems to be the main cause.

Walenta

Bariatric Dietitian Regional Hospital Pinehurst, NC (910) 715-7836

-----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of ODonnellSent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 11:09 AM Subject: kidney stones

Hi All,

I have a pt who has kidney stones, does anyone have any information that I could give to this pt? Low oxalate diet?

Thank you,

O'Donnell RD,LD

Southern Maine Medical Center

Biddeford, Me

04005

207-283-7148

Sell on Auctions - No fees. Bid on great items.

L. MacKechnie, RD

Bariatric Dietitian

New York, NY

misook_27@...

Sell on Auctions - No fees. Bid on great items.

[Guest guest]

Calcium citrate is more easily absorbed vs

oyster shell or carbonate.  Perhaps some

residual unabsorbed particles contribute to the stones…?

Renée J. Bordeau, RD,

CD-N, CPT

Nutritionist

Community Health

Center

635 Main Street

Middletown, CT 06457

860-347-6971 ext. 3331

Email: bordear@...

Fax:  860-343-7379

If you don't

take care of your body...where are you going to live?

From:

[mailto: ]

On Behalf Of MacKechnie

Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005

11:57 AM

Subject: RE:

kidney stones

Does anyone know anything about oyster shell calcium vs citrate for

stones?

" Walenta,

" <jwalenta@...> wrote:

Yes, low oxalate diet, make sure they are

taking calcium citrate, not carbonate, and make sure they are getting enough

fluids, that seems to be the main cause.

Walenta

Bariatric

Dietitian

Regional

Hospital

Pinehurst, NC

(910)

715-7836

kidney stones

Hi All,

I have a pt who has kidney stones, does anyone have any information

that I could give to this pt? Low oxalate diet?

Thank you,

O'Donnell RD,LD

Southern Maine

Medical Center

Biddeford,

Me

04005

207-283-7148

Sell

on Auctions - No fees. Bid on great items.

L.

MacKechnie, RD

Bariatric

Dietitian

New York, NY

misook_27@...

Sell

on Auctions - No fees. Bid on great items.

[Guest guest]

TMI...........TMI.............INFORMATION OVERLOAD!

LOVE YA DR. R.!

CHERYL

IOWA

[Guest guest]

Hi Marilyn,

So sory to hear about your kidney problems! I will heed your warning and

thanks for the heads up!

in Fla

384/241/160

then/now/goal

[Guest guest]

Debra wrote:

>

> Any one have info on Kidney Stones? My friend is in pain.

==>She should know that soy, pop or soda drinks, and all sugars

contribute to kidney stones, in addition to a lack of calcium

absorption, low levels of magnesium, and low B6 (contained in vitamin B

Complex), poor digestion, low stomach acid levels, etc. But the diet

and supplements all work together to provide all the nutrients required

by the body, so taking some without others is not advisable. Even

though most sites recommend not eating meat as part of the treatment

the nutrients in meat are very important for overall health and meat

only turns acid in a laboratory setting, not in the human body - see

Myths & Truth About Beef in our links or files.

==>There are many good herbs that are known to help break up kidney

stones, but they cannot help on their own without changing her nutrient

status - eating a good balanced diet plus supplements like we recommend

is very important so that imbalances in the body do not occur which

cause kidney stones to form. For a good herbal supplement do a search

on the internet and only buy those that disclose all ingredients, which

should be free-of soy and sugars. It is important that she drink

plenty of water at the same time; the electrolyte drink will help her a

lot, but she could drink more while she is trying to break up and pass

the stones. For pain she should look for white willow bark at the

health store rather than taking any over-the-counter or medical pain

killers.

==>However, to avoid a dangerous situation she should see her physician

to confirm the diagnosis. That doesn't mean she " has to " do medical

treatments but she should understand from the doctor at what point it

can become an emergency.

Bee

[Guest guest]

Thank you Bee, I forwarded your response to her.

Debra

---------------------------------

Stay in the know. Pulse on the new .com. Check it out.

[Guest guest]

Kombucha Tea-

Friday, December 8, 2006, 12:50:30 PM, you wrote:

> does anyone know any natural way to get rid of kidney stones?

[Guest guest]

Kidney stones are caused by an acidic pH -- possibly even both salivary and

urinary. Get some pH paper and test 1st morning urine until the results are

consistently in balance -- 6.4 - 7.0. Digestion is the first order of

business. Enzymes http://tinyurl.com/ey8l , and Acidophilus

http://tinyurl.com/24ajq and Bifidus http://tinyurl.com/26rur are imperative

to use here, as they will aid in alkalizing the body. What is probably

happening is that the acidity is causing the body to leach calcium and other

minerals from the bone and other tissues -- some people get kidney stones,

some become arthritic, some become fibromyalgic, etc. Too much protein or

incomplete digestion of protein can cause high acidity in the body and put

stress on the kidneys. Limit flesh-eating and any other acidfying foods

(sugar, caffeine, refined carbs, fried foods) and utilize high-enzyme foods

for several months, until the digestion gets healed and the mechanism that

causes the leaching of minerals is controlled. Of course, increased intake

of high-enzymes foods is advised -- forever.

Carol

[Guest guest]

I know this is OT, so will try to keep it short - I have a condition known as Medullary Sponge Kidney, which means the tubes inside the kidney, instead of being very tiny with fast flowing liquid, they are quite large, with slower flowing, which encourages crystal growth, which in turn leads to kidney stones. We have found that fresh pineapple juice has enzymes in it which can dissolve the kidney stones; cranberry juice, also freshly juiced (honey added for palatability, lol, otherwise it is just too too too sour) also has those great enzymes in it for dissolving the K.S.'s. We have a Green Star juicer, which is an excellent machine; a real workhorse. I try to also drink LOTS of water and also use Redmond's salt; we no longer use table salt (pure poison, that). We are finding ways of dealing with my K.S.'s - A friend just had a 3 INCH kidney stone! He said that pain was quite horrible. My stone was only a bit over 1/4" and the pain was horrendous! So watch the

acidity/alkalinity, but try to get fresh (not frozen - not as effective) cranberry & pineapple juices if you have trouble with K.S.'s. C.

[Guest guest]

drink plenty water is an understatement, for a person with re-curring kidney stones it is recommended that they drink 3 LITERS of water as a minimum, every day......regardless of what he eats concentrated urine makes unhappy kidneys. I would get him to carry a 1 liter reusable water bottle - Nalgene etc and fill it 3 times every day to make sure he is getting it in!

My 2 cents

-----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of jbach11Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 8:58 AM Subject: Kidney stones

I have a patient who is 3.5 yrs post RNY and has had kidney stone reoccurances 5 times since surgery. He has a 7 cm stone stuck in his ureter and is going to have it blasted today. This has happened once before. He is very upset because he is afraid he is going to go into kidney failure (per his PCP). The doctor gave him a list of foods to avoid, most of which included protein foods that he has been eating since sx. Do any of you have good websites regarding this issue or handouts already made that I could email him? I told him to continue to get a minimum of 60 grams of protein daily, but not much more, limit calcium supplements, drink plenty of water and stay away from high oxalate foods. Any other help? Thanks! Bach, RD, LD

IMPORTANT NOTICE: This communication, including any attachment, contains information that may be confidential or privileged, and is intended solely for the entity or individual to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you should contact the sender and delete the message. Any unauthorized disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message is strictly prohibited. Nothing in this email, including any attachment, is intended to be a legally binding signature.

[Guest guest]

I agree - most patients I see with recurring kidney stones never drink enough water despite being advised to do so.

SR , RD Madison

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Laschkwitsch, :LPH Obes InstSent: Monday, January 22, 2007 11:36 AM Subject: RE: Kidney stones

drink plenty water is an understatement, for a person with re-curring kidney stones it is recommended that they drink 3 LITERS of water as a minimum, every day......regardless of what he eats concentrated urine makes unhappy kidneys. I would get him to carry a 1 liter reusable water bottle - Nalgene etc and fill it 3 times every day to make sure he is getting it in!

My 2 cents

-----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of jbach11Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 8:58 AM Subject: Kidney stones

I have a patient who is 3.5 yrs post RNY and has had kidney stone reoccurances 5 times since surgery. He has a 7 cm stone stuck in his ureter and is going to have it blasted today. This has happened once before. He is very upset because he is afraid he is going to go into kidney failure (per his PCP). The doctor gave him a list of foods to avoid, most of which included protein foods that he has been eating since sx. Do any of you have good websites regarding this issue or handouts already made that I could email him? I told him to continue to get a minimum of 60 grams of protein daily, but not much more, limit calcium supplements, drink plenty of water and stay away from high oxalate foods. Any other help? Thanks! Bach, RD, LD

IMPORTANT NOTICE: This communication, including any attachment, contains information that may be confidential or privileged, and is intended solely for the entity or individual to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you should contact the sender and delete the message. Any unauthorized disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message is strictly prohibited. Nothing in this email, including any attachment, is intended to be a legally binding signature.

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Thank you.

[Guest guest]

In addition to lots of water, I believe that cranberries are supposed to support the health of the entire urinary tract and kidneys, as well. - might be worth a try."Laschkwitsch, :LPH Obes Inst" <KLaschke@...> wrote: drink plenty water is an understatement, for a person with re-curring kidney stones it is recommended that they drink 3 LITERS of water as a minimum, every day......regardless of what he eats concentrated urine makes unhappy

kidneys. I would get him to carry a 1 liter reusable water bottle - Nalgene etc and fill it 3 times every day to make sure he is getting it in! My 2 cents -----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of jbach11Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 8:58 AM Subject:

Kidney stones I have a patient who is 3.5 yrs post RNY and has had kidney stone reoccurances 5 times since surgery. He has a 7 cm stone stuck in his ureter and is going to have it blasted today. This has happened once before. He is very upset because he is afraid he is going to go into kidney failure (per his PCP). The doctor gave him a list of foods to avoid, most of which included protein foods that he has been eating since sx. Do any of you have good websites regarding this issue or handouts already made that I could email him? I told him to continue to get a minimum of 60 grams of protein daily, but not much more, limit calcium supplements, drink plenty of water and stay away from high oxalate foods. Any other help? Thanks! Bach, RD, LD IMPORTANT

NOTICE: This communication, including any attachment, contains information that may be confidential or privileged, and is intended solely for the entity or individual to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you should contact the sender and delete the message. Any unauthorized disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message is strictly prohibited. Nothing in this email, including any attachment, is intended to be a legally binding signature.

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[Guest guest]

Another thing to consider if the type of

kidney stone

Diet recommendations can vary

Make sure patient is not eating too much

fat (malabsorb and bind w/oxalates)

The type of calcium supplement may make a

difference-recom citrate

Also, if the patient is not getting enough

calcium and leaching from bones into urine this is not the best scenario.

From:

[mailto: ]

On Behalf Of jbach11

Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007

11:58 AM

Subject:

Kidney stones

I have a patient who is 3.5 yrs post RNY and has had

kidney stone

reoccurances 5 times since surgery. He has a 7 cm stone stuck in his

ureter and is going to have it blasted today. This has happened once

before. He is very upset because he is afraid he is going to go into

kidney failure (per his PCP). The doctor gave him a list of foods to

avoid, most of which included protein foods that he has been eating

since sx. Do any of you have good websites regarding this issue or

handouts already made that I could email him? I told him to continue

to get a minimum of 60 grams of protein daily, but not much more, limit

calcium supplements, drink plenty of water and stay away from high

oxalate foods. Any other help? Thanks!

Bach, RD, LD

[Guest guest]

>

> I've got a brother who has had many bouts of kidney stones in his

> lifetime.

> Greatly increased water intake makes great sense of course, but

> surely there are other considerations, dietary and such?

> Input would truly be appreciated.

I've been taking vitamin K to avoid calcium deposites in the arteries

leading to stroke.

I think that this is a valuable supplement for those who want to

avoid kidney stones.

Following is a site of interest, please forgive if it's not a

clickable link. Google subject for more info.

http://www.umm.edu/altmed/ConsSupplements/VitaminKcs.html

Jean

[Guest guest]

An increase in potassium intake is helpful in prevention.

Potassum citrate has been used as preventative.

Get Urology book and read the section on stone formation and then

do a Pubmed searches on the related topics.

Of course, it would help to the type of stone he tends to form.

That is the short version.

>

> I've got a brother who has had many bouts of kidney stones in his

> lifetime. Painful as periodic development of stones has been for

him,

> his overall health seemed to be less affected when he was a bit

younger.

> Greatly increased water intake makes great sense of course, but

> surely there are other considerations, dietary and such?

> Input would truly be appreciated.

> -bb

>

[Guest guest]

Alkaline diet should help prevent stones.

A number of abstracts are included below for

your musing.

Dietary calcium may reduce the chances of oxalate stones.

The final abstract in an animal model has a surprising connection

concerning for those who get the oxalate stone type.

And understand citrate is a potent inhibitor of both

calcium phosphate stone formation and calcium oxalate

stone formation. You'll have do your own

PUBMED search on that topic however.

I will state limiting vitamin C to prevent oxalate

formation isn't back by the science according to

Curhan and Willett in article in J Am Soc Nephrol

10: 840-845, 1999.

It also look like poorly controlled hypertension and

diabetes are risk factors for stone formation as albumin

in the urine can seed crystal formation for oxalate stones.

Increase urine acidity helps prevent brushite stones

and struvite stones.

Some prescribe that their patients have an intake

of 2.5 to 3 liters of water.

The CMAJ has a nice rather short article by

Vadim A. Finkielstein and S. Goldfarb on

this topic. Again find it by way of Pubmed and

then linking to the full article.

======================================================================

1: Ann Urol (Paris). 1996;30(3):112-7.

Struvite stones: long term follow up under metaphylaxis.

Jarrar K, Boedeker RH, Weidner W.

Department of Urology, University of Giessen, Germany.

This study presents the results of a 10-year metaphylaxis of 19

former struvite stone formers, each having had 2-3 stone operations.

In these patients, urine was acidified with L-methionine (Acimethin)

using a dose of three to six tablets 500 mg/day. Every three months,

11 laboratory parameters were checked in 24-hour urine. 6 parameters

were determined in serum. In addition, urine samples were

tested for infection. Statistical analysis of analytical data, which

was supported by computer graphs, provided the results for the

urinary parameters. They were described by geometric means and 95%

confidence intervals using ANOVA (analysis of variance). During

therapy, the mean pH values decreased significantly from 7.5 to 5.5.

Significant increases were found in the excretion of citrate,

magnesium, potassium, and uric acid. An increase was also

found for calcium, which, however, could not be confirmed to be

statistically significant (p = 0.08). In serum, changes of parameters

could only be registered for calcium and phosphate. However, at all

times, total serum concentrations stayed within their normal limits.

Three patients suffered occasional infections (16%), only two of them

formed recurrent stones (10%). In assessing the efficacy

of L-methionine therapy, the drop in urinary pH to acidic values was

the most relevant factor for metaphylaxis.

PMID: 8766146 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

===========================================================

Comparison of two diets for the prevention of recurrent stones in

idiopathic hypercalciuria.

Borghi L, Schianchi T, Meschi T, Guerra A, Allegri F, Maggiore U,

Novarini A.

Department of Clinical Sciences, University of Parma, Parma, Italy.

loris.borghi@...

BACKGROUND: A low-calcium diet is recommended to prevent recurrent

stones in patients with idiopathic hypercalciuria, yet long-term data

on the efficacy of a low-calcium diet are lacking. Recently, the

efficacy of a low-calcium diet has been questioned, and greater

emphasis has been placed on reducing the intake of animal protein and

salt, but again, long-term data are unavailable.

METHODS: We conducted a five-year randomized trial comparing the

effect of two diets in 120 men with recurrent calcium oxalate stones

and hypercalciuria. Sixty men were assigned to a diet containing a

normal amount of calcium (30 mmol per day) but reduced amounts of

animal protein (52 g per day) and salt (50 mmol of sodium chloride

per day); the other 60 men were assigned to the traditional low-

calcium diet, which contained 10 mmol of calcium per day.

RESULTS: At five years, 12 of the 60 men on the normal-calcium, low-

animal-protein, low-salt diet and 23 of the 60 men on the low-calcium

diet had had relapses. The unadjusted relative risk of a recurrence

for the group on the first diet, as compared with the group

on the second diet, was 0.49 (95 percent confidence interval, 0.24 to

0.98; P=0.04). During follow-up, urinary calcium levels dropped

significantly in both groups by approximately 170 mg per day (4.2

mmol per day). However, urinary oxalate excretion increased in the

men on the low-calcium diet (by an average of 5.4 mg per day [60

micromol per day]) but decreased in those on the normal-calcium, low-

animal-protein, low-salt diet (by an average of 7.2 mg per

day [80 micromol per day]).

CONCLUSIONS: In men with recurrent calcium oxalate stones and

hypercalciuria, restricted intake of animal protein and salt,

combined with a normal calcium intake, provides greater protection

than the traditional low-calcium diet.

PMID: 11784873 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

==================================================

Comparison of Dietary Calcium with Supplemental Calcium and Other

Nutrients as Factors Affecting the Risk for Kidney Stones in Women

C. Curhan, MD, ScD; Walter C. Willett, MD, DrPH; E.

Speizer, MD; Donna Spiegelman, ScD; and Meir J. Stampfer, MD, DrPH

1 April 1997 | Volume 126 Issue 7 | Pages 497-504

Background: Calcium intake is believed to play an important role in

the formation of kidney stones, but data on the risk factors for

stone formation in women are limited.

Objective: To examine the association between intake of dietary and

supplemental calcium and the risk for kidney stones in women.

Design: Prospective cohort study with 12-year follow-up.

Setting: Several U.S. states.

Participants: 91 731 women participating in the Nurses' Health Study

I who were 34 to 59 years of age in 1980 and had no history of kidney

stones.

Measurements: Self-administered food-frequency questionnaires were

used to assess diet in 1980, 1984, 1986, and 1990. The main outcome

measure was incident symptomatic kidney stones.

Results: During 903 849 person-years of follow-up, 864 cases of

kidney stones were documented. After adjustment for potential risk

factors, intake of dietary calcium was inversely associated with risk

for kidney stones and intake of supplemental calcium was positively

associated with risk. The relative risk for stone formation in women

in the highest quintile of dietary calcium intake compared with women

in the lowest quintile was 0.65 (95% CI, 0.50 to 0.83). The relative

risk in women who took supplemental calcium compared with women who

did not was 1.20 (CI, 1.02 to 1.41). In 67% of women who took

supplemental calcium, the calcium either was not consumed with a meal

or was consumed with meals whose oxalate content was probably low.

Other dietary factors showed the following relative risks among women

in the highest quintile of intake compared with those in the lowest

quintile: sucrose, 1.52 (CI, 1.18 to 1.96); sodium, 1.30 (CI, 1.05 to

1.62); fluid, 0.61 (CI, 0.48 to 0.78); and potassium, 0.65 (CI, 0.51

to 0.84).

Conclusions: High intake of dietary calcium appears to decrease risk

for symptomatic kidney stones, whereas intake of supplemental calcium

may increase risk. Because dietary calcium reduces the absorption of

oxalate, the apparently different effects caused by the type of

calcium may be associated with the timing of calcium ingestion

relative to the amount of oxalate consumed. However, other factors

present in dairy products (the major source of dietary calcium) could

be responsible for the decreased risk seen with dietary calcium.

===============================================================

1: Kidney Int. 2000 Aug;58(2):748-52.

Comparative effects of potassium chloride and bicarbonate on thiazide-

induced reduction in urinary calcium excretion.

Frassetto LA, Nash E, RC Jr, Sebastian A.

Department of Medicine and General Clinical Research Center,

University of California, San Francisco 94143, USA.

BACKGROUND: The chronic low-grade metabolic acidosis that occurs in

various renal disorders and in normal people, and that is related

both to dietary net acid load and age-related renal functional

decline, may contribute to osteoporosis by increasing urine calcium

excretion. Administration of potassium (K) alkali salts neutralizes

acid and lowers urine calcium excretion. Urine calcium excretion also

can be reduced by the administration of thiazide diuretics, which are

often given with supplemental K to avoid hypokalemia. We

determined whether the K alkali salt potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3)

and the thiazide diuretic hydrochlorothiazide (HCTZ) combined is more

effective in reducing urinary calcium than KHCO3 alone or HCTZ

combined with the conventionally coadministered nonalkalinizing K

salt potassium chloride (KCl).

METHODS: Thirty-one healthy men and women aged 50 or greater were

recruited for a four-week, double-blind, randomized study. After a

baseline period of 10 days with three 24-hour urine and arterialized

blood collections, subjects were randomized to receive either HCTZ

(50 mg) plus potassium (60 mmol daily) as either the chloride or

bicarbonate salt. Another 19 women received potassium bicarbonate (60

mmol) alone. After two weeks, triplicate collections of 24-hour

urines and arterialized bloods were repeated.

RESULTS: Urinary calcium excretion decreased significantly in all

groups. KHCO3 alone and HCTZ + KCl induced similar decreases (-0.70

+/- 0.60 vs. -0.80 +/- 1. 0 mmol/day, respectively).

Compared with those treatments, the combination of HCTZ + KHCO3

induced more than a twofold greater decrease in urinary calcium

excretion (-1.8 +/- 1.2 mmol/day, P < 0. 05). Both HCTZ + KHCO3 and

KHCO3 alone reduced net acid excretion significantly (P < 0.05) to

values of less than zero.

CONCLUSIONS:

KHCO3 was superior to KCl as an adjunct to HCTZ, inducing a twofold

greater reduction in urine calcium excretion, and completely

neutralizing endogenous acid production so as to correct the pre-

existing mild metabolic acidosis that an acid-producing diet usually

induces in older people. Accordingly, for reducing urine calcium

excretion in stone disease and osteoporosis, the combination of HCTZ

+ KHCO3 may be preferable to that of HCTZ + KCl.

PMID: 10916098 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE

=================================================

1: BJU Int. 2005 Jul;96(1):117-26.

Vitamin E therapy prevents hyperoxaluria-induced calcium oxalate

crystal deposition in the kidney by improving renal tissue

antioxidant status.

Thamilselvan S, Menon M.

Department of Urology, Ste 2D/34, Henry Ford Health System, One Ford

Place, Detroit, MI-48202, USA. STHAMIL1@...

OBJECTIVE: To determine whether vitamin E prevents hyperoxaluria-

induced stone formation, using a new animal model of calcium oxalate

stone disease, as our previous in- vitro and in-vivo studies showed

that oxalate and hyperoxaluria induce free-radical generation, which

results in peroxidative injury to renal tubular cells.

MATERIALS AND METHODS: Ethylene glycol (EG) was administered at

150 mg/day by gavage for 3 weeks to rats fed on diets with adequate

(group 1), excess (group 2) or deficient (group 3) vitamin E. Several

indicators of peroxidation, free radicals and enzymatic activity were

then assessed.

RESULTS: EG treatment in group 1 lead to increased lipid

peroxidation, protein thiol, excretion of urinary enzymes, oxalate

and decreases in urinary calcium, antioxidant enzymes and altered

glutathione redox balance. Although renal function was not altered,

there was increased water intake, urine volume and

lowered urinary pH in these rats. These changes were more intense,

with extensive calcium-oxalate crystal deposition, in rats in group

3, and prevented in rats in group 2, except for urinary oxalate

levels, which remained high. Histopathological examination showed

that there was no deposition of calcium oxalate crystals in rats in

group 2.

CONCLUSION: This is the first study to demonstrate in-vivo evidence

that hyperoxaluria-induced peroxidative injury

induces individual calcium oxalate crystal attachment in the renal

tubules. In addition, excess vitamin E completely prevented calcium

oxalate deposition, by preventing peroxidative injury and restoring

renal tissue antioxidants and glutathione redox balance. Therefore,

vitamin E therapy might provide protection against the deposition of

calcium oxalate stones in the kidney of humans.

PMID: 15963133 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[Guest guest]

The classic remedy is b-6 and magnesium. 200 mg B-6 and 2000 mg magnesium malate

is a good combination which yields about 400 mg elemental magnesium. Helps with

bowels and muscle pain too.

<fjd2002@...> wrote:

>

> I've got a brother who has had many bouts of kidney stones in his

> lifetime.

> Greatly increased water intake makes great sense of course, but

> surely there are other considerations, dietary and such?

> Input would truly be appreciated.

I've been taking vitamin K to avoid calcium deposites in the arteries

leading to stroke.

I think that this is a valuable supplement for those who want to

avoid kidney stones.

Following is a site of interest, please forgive if it's not a

clickable link. Google subject for more info.

http://www.umm.edu/altmed/ConsSupplements/VitaminKcs.html

Jean

Note: This forum is for discussion of health related subjects but under no

circumstances should any information published here be considered a substitute

for personal medical advice from a qualified physician. -the owner

[Guest guest]

this might help: S.J.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0ISW/is_267/ai_n15677755

Magnesium and vitamin B6 for kidney stone prevention

Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients, Oct, 2005 by Alan R. Gaby

---------------------------------

bbburtnick@... wrote:

I've got a brother who has had many bouts of kidney stones in his

lifetime. Painful as periodic development of stones has been for him,

his overall health seemed to be less affected when he was a bit younger.

Greatly increased water intake makes great sense of course, but

surely there are other considerations, dietary and such?

Input would truly be appreciated.

-bb

[Guest guest]

Very grateful for responses regarding formation of stones.

- A question directed to " Betaine hcl " : I'm curious about your

I.D.ing yourself that way. I've done a rudimentary search on betaine hcl

and I see that it is widely marketed for a variety of digestive

maladies. Perhaps you've had an especially good experience regarding

it's use as a supplement? Just curious.

-bb

[Guest guest]

Yes, the digestive supplement is a great preventative for

dyspepsia. I was bothered for years with acid reflux and

non-acid reflux. I took the prescription meds which helped

the symptoms for awhile until these meds started causing

overt adverse effects. I got better by first adjusting

my sleeping position in manner beyond what is commonly

suggested. What is commonly suggested to reflux sufferers

is that they tilt their beds with concrete blocks under

the legs at the head of the bed to raise it by 6 to 8 inches.

This amount of tilt while helpful is NOT enough for

optimal relief prevention of night time transient reflux.

Anyway by doing more tilt (18 inches), I go better and

my esophagus was no longer painful BUT I still having dyspepsia.

Dyspepsia meant for me, that some meals would just set in stomach

for hours and caused me to burp and belch. I was concerned I'd relapse

into the burning of GERD. So I started the betaine HCL with pepsin

at three capsules at the fattiest meal of the day

and the dyspepsia was gone. It is wonderful. An alternative

Doc suggested this action, it was the first thing out

of his mouth. I was going to try it anyway. He gave me

suggestions on how to start taking it. Working the

dose up and having lots water available if I got burning.

I didn't get burning. He told me take it at the begining

and/or mid meal and NOT after the meal as capsules tend

to stick in the esophagus and one DOES NOT what betaine HCL

capsules breaking down in the esophagus as it would be

just another form of acid exposure. Further taking the

capsules mid meal the betaine HCL gets mixed nicely into

the digesting meal.

And there is more to the story as I decided I wanted

to take a high dose of niacin. Now with three betaine HCL

capsules per meal, I am able to take high dose niacin

WITHOUT the flushing of the skin (a very red prickly feeling

of the skin) and WITHOUT any arrhythmia problems (which I

would have if I didn't do this).

Understand betaine HCL is really trimethylglycine HCL and

as such is a great methyl group contributor. This fact

raises SAMe levels, lowers homocysteine levels, and prevents

methyl group depletion by high dose niacin.

In short, betaine HCL has effect far beyond the

added acid it provides. Indeed I suspect a large

part of the improvement to digestion comes from

the trimethylglycine part of the molecule and not just

the HCL. Understand I haven't proven this to myself

but this is something I suspect.

Also I suspect having ample folic acid, biotin, b-12

and TMG/betaine will improve both genomic stability and

epigenetic stability.

>

> Very grateful for responses regarding formation of stones.

> - A question directed to " Betaine hcl " : I'm curious about your

> I.D.ing yourself that way. I've done a rudimentary search on

betaine hcl

> and I see that it is widely marketed for a variety of digestive

> maladies. Perhaps you've had an especially good experience regarding

> it's use as a supplement? Just curious.

> -bb

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks again, " betaine-hcl " . Your experiences regarding betaine hcl

could possibly prove very useful for my OTHER brother (there are 3 of

us- stones to the left of me, reflux to the right, here I am- stuck in

the middle with..).

Grazi,

-bb

[Guest guest]

I have had problems with kidney stones since my MGB. I had to go to a

urologist. He said absolutely no tums! Since I have stopped taking tums, I

have

not had a problem.

Doing things like snowmobiling and waverunning jarred them loose.

Good luck,

Rich Rosko

255

445/230

May/2003

Dr R

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