Guest guest Posted September 5, 2010 Report Share Posted September 5, 2010 You are totally wrong that I don't believe that you are hypoT. As someone who has had it for over 50 years, I am certainly not new and have more knowledge than I'm sure you have in view of the answers you give. People with knowledge are open and welcoming of other peoples help. You are certainly free to do what you want, right or wrong. <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge! Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: Tami <tamijmoore@...> Subject: Re:Newbie hypothyroidism Date: Sunday, September 5, 2010, 12:28 PM I don't need any help interpreting the normalcy of my tests. The labs have rated my tests as normal and my doctor agrees that all my tests are showing as normal. Except of course my temperature readings are low. " It's called knowledge " ...you are learning about something new and I'm not mistaken or misinterpreting my results. Please read more in my blog www.hypothyroidblog.com there are several resources and links that you might be interested in viewing. I'm not surprised that you don't believe me. My own doctors wouldn't diagnose me until I found one who would! Tami > > > > > > All of my thyroid blood tests have come back normal I have taken every > > > type of thyroid blood test trying to get at the bottom of this issue. > > > > > > > That seems unlikely, considering just how many different tests are out > > there. Which specific tests did you get? Please include reference ranges > > with explicit results. Just because a test is within the reference range > > does not mean your level is " normal. " > > > > Chuck > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2010 Report Share Posted September 5, 2010 You assume too much. I am also treating my hypoT by symptoms. What makes you think you know more than people who have knowledge about hypoT for decades and decades? But, if it makes you feel better to think you know more than anyone else, continue in your beliefs. If you are so knowledgeable and don't need anyone's input I'm really curious about why you joined a help/support group. According to you, you know more than anyone else and don't need anyone's input. <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge! Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: Tami <tamijmoore@...> Subject: Re:Newbie hypothyroidism Date: Sunday, September 5, 2010, 1:34 PM I do get copies of all my results and have them in an excel spreadsheet. I've got results for 3 years of normal blood tests. I don't say that I know everything I'm just suggesting that perhaps there is a part of this subject that you aren't familiar with. Perhaps if you did some of the research I've suggested that you might understand this condition better. Believe me I've found out the hard way...harder than the usual hypothyroid sufferer. And, my efforts have paid off and I feel better. Perhaps a more open mind or agenda might help with understanding and learning about this aspect of hypothyroidism. It exists and I am proof and there are thousands of others since the 1800's that have benefited from being treated just based on their symptoms and temperature. I'm not here to say that everything you know is wrong...I'm suggesting that possibly there is more to this than you've researched. Tami http://www.hypothyroidblog.com > > > > > > I've taken the TSH, Free T4, FreeT3, reverse T3, thyro globulin > > > antibody, Cortisol rhythm, TPO I've taken them every 5 weeks for the > > > last 3 months and they are normal and it isn't impossible you just > > > don't know about this type of HypoT.... > > > > > I am familiar with several ways to be hypoT and still have test results > > within the reference range. Again, just because a test result is in the > > reference range, does NOT mean you are normal. Please share specific > > results and reference ranges. > > > > Although your list of tests addresses many of these possibilities, you > > are not even close to your claim of taking " all " thyroid tests, as I > > correctly surmised. A few tests you left out include TT4, FTI, TRH, RAI > > uptake, TBG, FT3I, T3U, TRAb, TMAb, Tg (distinct from TgAB). Then there > > are various scans and peripheral tests involving adrenals or the > > pituitary. That does not include the tests used primarily in research. > > > > OTOH, I would not recommend doing most of these tests every five weeks. > > Once you have eliminated binding or conversion issues as an underlying > > problem, you do not need to keep repeating that process or trying > > alternative tests that give the same information. The frees and RT3 are > > more dynamic and probably should be monitored until you get a handle on > > the cause. > > > > Chuck > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2010 Report Share Posted September 5, 2010 Have you looked at my blog? Have you looked at any of the information that I've suggested? http://www.21centurymed.com http://www.hypothyroidblog.com I'm not saying you don't know what you're talking about I'm saying that I'm better and there is more to know. I'm suggesting that perhaps you don't know all there is to know on this subject. I implore you to please look at these websites. Tami > > > > > > > > All of my thyroid blood tests have come back normal I have taken every > > > > type of thyroid blood test trying to get at the bottom of this issue. > > > > > > > > > > That seems unlikely, considering just how many different tests are out > > > there. Which specific tests did you get? Please include reference ranges > > > with explicit results. Just because a test is within the reference range > > > does not mean your level is " normal. " > > > > > > Chuck > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2010 Report Share Posted September 5, 2010 I'm not assuming anything, I've done a lot of research! And, because of that research have made myself feel better. I'm trying to spread the word and help others with this problem. I AM taking the word of people who have knowledge about this for decades. And, it isn't through here. Please please look at these resources http://www.21centurymed.com and his book or my website http://www.hypothyroidblog.com How can you be so sure that what I'm saying isn't right unless you've researched this area? I DO NOT BELIEVE I KNOW MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE AND HAVE NEVER SAID SO IN ANY OF MY COMMUNICATIONS. I know that people come here for information and want this form of hypothyroidism to be presented here. IT EXISTS! and I know it exists because taking thyroid medicine makes me feel better. Again, isn't that the biggest proof of all? Tami > > > > > > > > I've taken the TSH, Free T4, FreeT3, reverse T3, thyro globulin > > > > antibody, Cortisol rhythm, TPO I've taken them every 5 weeks for the > > > > last 3 months and they are normal and it isn't impossible you just > > > > don't know about this type of HypoT.... > > > > > > > I am familiar with several ways to be hypoT and still have test results > > > within the reference range. Again, just because a test result is in the > > > reference range, does NOT mean you are normal. Please share specific > > > results and reference ranges. > > > > > > Although your list of tests addresses many of these possibilities, you > > > are not even close to your claim of taking " all " thyroid tests, as I > > > correctly surmised. A few tests you left out include TT4, FTI, TRH, RAI > > > uptake, TBG, FT3I, T3U, TRAb, TMAb, Tg (distinct from TgAB). Then there > > > are various scans and peripheral tests involving adrenals or the > > > pituitary. That does not include the tests used primarily in research. > > > > > > OTOH, I would not recommend doing most of these tests every five weeks. > > > Once you have eliminated binding or conversion issues as an underlying > > > problem, you do not need to keep repeating that process or trying > > > alternative tests that give the same information. The frees and RT3 are > > > more dynamic and probably should be monitored until you get a handle on > > > the cause. > > > > > > Chuck > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2010 Report Share Posted September 5, 2010 How much do you get for each click you direct to these sites? <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge! Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: Tami <tamijmoore@...> Subject: Re:Newbie hypothyroidism Date: Sunday, September 5, 2010, 1:54 PM Have you looked at my blog? Have you looked at any of the information that I've suggested? http://www.21centurymed.com http://www.hypothyroidblog.com I'm not saying you don't know what you're talking about I'm saying that I'm better and there is more to know. I'm suggesting that perhaps you don't know all there is to know on this subject. I implore you to please look at these websites. Tami > > > > > > > > All of my thyroid blood tests have come back normal I have taken every > > > > type of thyroid blood test trying to get at the bottom of this issue. > > > > > > > > > > That seems unlikely, considering just how many different tests are out > > > there. Which specific tests did you get? Please include reference ranges > > > with explicit results. Just because a test is within the reference range > > > does not mean your level is " normal. " > > > > > > Chuck > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2010 Report Share Posted September 5, 2010 Have you looked at the sites? Have you googled Hypothyroidism type 2? I am helping others...that is all I'm doing. I don't understand why you two are so resistant to additional information and are being so abusive to me? I suppose if you block me from this group it will be the truth of your resistance to new information. Tami > > > > > > > > > > All of my thyroid blood tests have come back normal I have taken every > > > > > type of thyroid blood test trying to get at the bottom of this issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > That seems unlikely, considering just how many different tests are out > > > > there. Which specific tests did you get? Please include reference ranges > > > > with explicit results. Just because a test is within the reference range > > > > does not mean your level is " normal. " > > > > > > > > Chuck > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2010 Report Share Posted September 5, 2010 You have got to be kidding or deluded. Do you think the other people on this group come here for kicks or to collect recipes? .. We ALL have hypoT. A goodly number of us have had it for decades, and have done all the research. Your statements are silly. Of course, if you have hypoT and are either untreated or undertreated and then take thyroid hormone you will feel better. It is so obvious from your writing that you truly are a newbie. There's nothing wrong with being a newbie, but you embarras yourself and insult all the rest of us that have struggled, suffered, researched and learned and finally are taking the correct treatment, when you state that you know more than the others on here. If you're so knowledgeable, how come you don't know why the pills don't break easily and cleanly? There is a reason. <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge! Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: Tami <tamijmoore@...> Subject: Re:Newbie hypothyroidism Date: Sunday, September 5, 2010, 1:59 PM I'm not assuming anything, I've done a lot of research! And, because of that research have made myself feel better. I'm trying to spread the word and help others with this problem. I AM taking the word of people who have knowledge about this for decades. And, it isn't through here. Please please look at these resources http://www.21centurymed.com and his book or my website http://www.hypothyroidblog.com How can you be so sure that what I'm saying isn't right unless you've researched this area? I DO NOT BELIEVE I KNOW MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE AND HAVE NEVER SAID SO IN ANY OF MY COMMUNICATIONS. I know that people come here for information and want this form of hypothyroidism to be presented here. IT EXISTS! and I know it exists because taking thyroid medicine makes me feel better. Again, isn't that the biggest proof of all? Tami > > > > > > > > I've taken the TSH, Free T4, FreeT3, reverse T3, thyro globulin > > > > antibody, Cortisol rhythm, TPO I've taken them every 5 weeks for the > > > > last 3 months and they are normal and it isn't impossible you just > > > > don't know about this type of HypoT.... > > > > > > > I am familiar with several ways to be hypoT and still have test results > > > within the reference range. Again, just because a test result is in the > > > reference range, does NOT mean you are normal. Please share specific > > > results and reference ranges. > > > > > > Although your list of tests addresses many of these possibilities, you > > > are not even close to your claim of taking " all " thyroid tests, as I > > > correctly surmised. A few tests you left out include TT4, FTI, TRH, RAI > > > uptake, TBG, FT3I, T3U, TRAb, TMAb, Tg (distinct from TgAB). Then there > > > are various scans and peripheral tests involving adrenals or the > > > pituitary. That does not include the tests used primarily in research. > > > > > > OTOH, I would not recommend doing most of these tests every five weeks. > > > Once you have eliminated binding or conversion issues as an underlying > > > problem, you do not need to keep repeating that process or trying > > > alternative tests that give the same information. The frees and RT3 are > > > more dynamic and probably should be monitored until you get a handle on > > > the cause. > > > > > > Chuck > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2010 Report Share Posted September 5, 2010 Have you googled Hypothyroidism Type 2? ....I could really do without the name calling... Tami > > > > > > > > > > I've taken the TSH, Free T4, FreeT3, reverse T3, thyro globulin > > > > > antibody, Cortisol rhythm, TPO I've taken them every 5 weeks for the > > > > > last 3 months and they are normal and it isn't impossible you just > > > > > don't know about this type of HypoT.... > > > > > > > > > I am familiar with several ways to be hypoT and still have test results > > > > within the reference range. Again, just because a test result is in the > > > > reference range, does NOT mean you are normal. Please share specific > > > > results and reference ranges. > > > > > > > > Although your list of tests addresses many of these possibilities, you > > > > are not even close to your claim of taking " all " thyroid tests, as I > > > > correctly surmised. A few tests you left out include TT4, FTI, TRH, RAI > > > > uptake, TBG, FT3I, T3U, TRAb, TMAb, Tg (distinct from TgAB). Then there > > > > are various scans and peripheral tests involving adrenals or the > > > > pituitary. That does not include the tests used primarily in research. > > > > > > > > OTOH, I would not recommend doing most of these tests every five weeks. > > > > Once you have eliminated binding or conversion issues as an underlying > > > > problem, you do not need to keep repeating that process or trying > > > > alternative tests that give the same information. The frees and RT3 are > > > > more dynamic and probably should be monitored until you get a handle on > > > > the cause. > > > > > > > > Chuck > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2010 Report Share Posted September 5, 2010 Your information is NOT new. Of course I have seen this before, of course I have researched and so have many, many others. All I see is that you are trying to get people to click onto the sites you list and this is a form of spam. How many groups have you been banned from in the past? You seem to know a lot about that. Now I'm bored with this useless back and forth and totally finished with this conversation. I will not respond to you any more. <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge! Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: Tami <tamijmoore@...> Subject: Re:Newbie hypothyroidism Date: Sunday, September 5, 2010, 2:02 PM Have you looked at the sites? Have you googled Hypothyroidism type 2? I am helping others...that is all I'm doing. I don't understand why you two are so resistant to additional information and are being so abusive to me? I suppose if you block me from this group it will be the truth of your resistance to new information. Tami > > > > > > > > > > All of my thyroid blood tests have come back normal I have taken every > > > > > type of thyroid blood test trying to get at the bottom of this issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > That seems unlikely, considering just how many different tests are out > > > > there. Which specific tests did you get? Please include reference ranges > > > > with explicit results. Just because a test is within the reference range > > > > does not mean your level is " normal. " > > > > > > > > Chuck > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2010 Report Share Posted September 5, 2010 You are amazing... If you know about this information and know it isn't new why don't you believe that I suffer from HypoT-type 2? That it is a condition that exists and is under-treated? I make no money off of those sites...none. I'm not spamming I'm trying to educate and share my experiences with others. I'm not here to argue or make you wrong. I'm trying to help others who are feeling Hypo symptoms and being told that they aren't sick from it because their blood work is fine. What is so hard to believe about this if you are so familiar with the research and people who need thyroid treatment and aren't getting it? Would you mis-direct people who come here for information because you refuse to update your...knowledge? Tami > > > > > > > > > > > > All of my thyroid blood tests have come back normal I have taken every > > > > > > type of thyroid blood test trying to get at the bottom of this issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That seems unlikely, considering just how many different tests are out > > > > > there. Which specific tests did you get? Please include reference ranges > > > > > with explicit results. Just because a test is within the reference range > > > > > does not mean your level is " normal. " > > > > > > > > > > Chuck > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2010 Report Share Posted September 5, 2010 I haven't seen activity on this list in awhile and just now read this thread. It sounds to me like Chuck and Roni are saying 'let's see your results, we believe you can be hypoT even if it reads 'normal but we know what to look for even within 'normal' ranges... " At least that's how I read it, Tami. You're assuming they don't believe you could be hypoT and have " normal " results. That's not what they are saying from what I can see. Cathryn. > > > > > > > > I've taken the TSH, Free T4, FreeT3, reverse T3, thyro globulin > > > > antibody, Cortisol rhythm, TPO I've taken them every 5 weeks for the > > > > last 3 months and they are normal and it isn't impossible you just > > > > don't know about this type of HypoT.... > > > > > > > I am familiar with several ways to be hypoT and still have test results > > > within the reference range. Again, just because a test result is in the > > > reference range, does NOT mean you are normal. Please share specific > > > results and reference ranges. > > > > > > Although your list of tests addresses many of these possibilities, you > > > are not even close to your claim of taking " all " thyroid tests, as I > > > correctly surmised. A few tests you left out include TT4, FTI, TRH, RAI > > > uptake, TBG, FT3I, T3U, TRAb, TMAb, Tg (distinct from TgAB). Then there > > > are various scans and peripheral tests involving adrenals or the > > > pituitary. That does not include the tests used primarily in research. > > > > > > OTOH, I would not recommend doing most of these tests every five weeks. > > > Once you have eliminated binding or conversion issues as an underlying > > > problem, you do not need to keep repeating that process or trying > > > alternative tests that give the same information. The frees and RT3 are > > > more dynamic and probably should be monitored until you get a handle on > > > the cause. > > > > > > Chuck > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2010 Report Share Posted September 5, 2010 rn, Thanks for writing. My point is that my blood results don't matter for diagnosing HypoT-Type 2 that below normal basal temperature tells if you have it. And, I would guess...that people have HypoT-Type 1 also have reduced basal temperatures. " Laboratory tests showing inadequate bloodstream levels of thyroid hormone make it easy to diagnose Type 1 hypothyroidism. However, lab tests fail to detect Type 2 hypothyroidism, because despite adequate bloodstream hormone levels, the cells are unable to accept and utilize that hormone (for a variety of reasons, which I'll address in a moment). Since the main problem lies with the cells that are actually utilizing the hormone, a different approach needs to be taken when testing for – and to a certain extent, when treating – Type 2 hypothyroidism. " http://www.21centurymed.com/?page_id=12 from Dr. Mark Starr's website. I haven't been diagnosed with HypoT-type 1 it's type 2. :-) Tami > > > > > > > > > > I've taken the TSH, Free T4, FreeT3, reverse T3, thyro globulin > > > > > antibody, Cortisol rhythm, TPO I've taken them every 5 weeks for the > > > > > last 3 months and they are normal and it isn't impossible you just > > > > > don't know about this type of HypoT.... > > > > > > > > > I am familiar with several ways to be hypoT and still have test results > > > > within the reference range. Again, just because a test result is in the > > > > reference range, does NOT mean you are normal. Please share specific > > > > results and reference ranges. > > > > > > > > Although your list of tests addresses many of these possibilities, you > > > > are not even close to your claim of taking " all " thyroid tests, as I > > > > correctly surmised. A few tests you left out include TT4, FTI, TRH, RAI > > > > uptake, TBG, FT3I, T3U, TRAb, TMAb, Tg (distinct from TgAB). Then there > > > > are various scans and peripheral tests involving adrenals or the > > > > pituitary. That does not include the tests used primarily in research. > > > > > > > > OTOH, I would not recommend doing most of these tests every five weeks. > > > > Once you have eliminated binding or conversion issues as an underlying > > > > problem, you do not need to keep repeating that process or trying > > > > alternative tests that give the same information. The frees and RT3 are > > > > more dynamic and probably should be monitored until you get a handle on > > > > the cause. > > > > > > > > Chuck > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2010 Report Share Posted September 6, 2010 Still it might be helpful to us in our quest for knowledge to know what your test results were as well as the ranges. Sometimes you can be within range but your position within the range when compared to another result position in the range can be enlightening. Luck, .. .. > > Posted by: " Tami " tamijmoore@... > <mailto:tamijmoore@...?Subject=%20Re%3ANewbie> tamijmoore > <tamijmoore> > > > Sun Sep 5, 2010 12:28 pm (PDT) > > > > I don't need any help interpreting the normalcy of my tests. The labs > have rated my tests as normal and my doctor agrees that all my tests > are showing as normal. Except of course my temperature readings are low. > > " It's called knowledge " .. > .you are learning about something new and I'm not mistaken or > misinterpreting my results. > > Please read more in my blog www.hypothyroidblog.com there are several > resources and links that you might be interested in viewing. I'm not > surprised that you don't believe me. My own doctors wouldn't diagnose > me until I found one who would! > > Tami > > > > > > If you could post your own results for these tests, and the ranges > from the lab for each one someone could help you to interpret the > " normalcy " of them. > > > > > > <>Roni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2010 Report Share Posted September 6, 2010 Well, T3 and/or T4 break down at least partially into T1 and T2, so if you're processing these properly you can't fail to have T1 and T2. I think. They're generally considered to be MOL waste products IIRC; with little or no benefits beyond speculation. As you've mentioned, it seems your case is strange. One of the strange things to me is that you seem to do so well on such a small dose. The usual complaint that we receive from those who don't get proper relief from symptoms is that they cannot get enough medication prescribed; or they get T4 alone when they think they would do better with Armour or similar. Is the 45 mcg you mention taking Armour or T4? .. .. > > Posted by: " Tami " tamijmoore@... > <mailto:tamijmoore@...?Subject=%20Re%3ANewbie> tamijmoore > <tamijmoore> > > > Sun Sep 5, 2010 12:35 pm (PDT) > > > > Desiccated thyroid has T2 and T1 in addition to T3 and T4. The > molecules may be the same in synthetic as desiccated but it doesn't > provide the additional T2 & T1 that the desiccated does. > > " T4, the most well known of all the thyroid hormones, heats the body > and speeds metabolism (of fats, proteins, and carbohydrates) and heart > rate. T3, the most active form of thyroid hormone, also heats the body > and speeds metabolism and heart rate. At best, T4 is only about > one-quarter as potent as T3, and in any case, most is converted into > the more active T3 by the liver, kidneys, and other body cells. T2 > stimulates metabolism, while one animal study showed that T1 cools the > body and slows the heart. Together, all four of these related hormones > probably act synergistically in ways that are not yet fully > understood. " http://www.21centurymed.com/?page_id=12 > <http://www.21centurymed.com/?page_id=12> > > I'm not saying that Armour will work for everyone but I believe with > my type of HypoT-type 2 where the thyroid is producing enough T3 & T4 > but my body doesn't process it properly that the additional T2 & T1 it > makes a difference. At least it has for me. :-) > > Tami > > > > > > I'm glad you're doing well with Armour. Quite a few people have > > reported doing better with it, especially when compared to T4 alone. > > > > HOWEVER: AFAIK none of the controlled tests have been able to show > > improved results from taking Armour as opposed to taking T4 alone. That > > to me seems a little strange given that there are sometimes [i think] > > T4/T3 conversion problems or binding problems that could cause T4 alone > > to not work so well. > > > > As for Armour being " ...a more full spectrum medication... " as > oppose to > > the same quantity of synthetic T4 and T3 I don't see how you arrive at > > that. T4 and T3 are the active ingredients in Armour and you can get > > synthetic medications with T4 and T3 in them. And all of the T4/T3 > > components of medications are bioidentical regardless of the source. > > The " natural " and " synthetic " molecules are exactly the same. > > > > Regards, > > > > . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2010 Report Share Posted September 6, 2010 Most of us would like to learn more. Looking at your " normal " test results [with ranges] might be informative us. And you might actually learn something too; although possibly not. What your doctor is calling " normal " may well indicate what is actually NOT normal. We do have some people on this list with the expertise to look at the results and tell you whether they are all actually " normal " or whether they indicate something else. Unfortunately I'm not one of them; but I would be very surprised if ALL of the possible tests were run without showing something that someone here could identify as suspect. BTW, Chuck is a scientist as well as one who [along with several family members IIRC] suffer from hypothyroidism. His depth of knowledge of this subject, as well as on many others is vast [sorry to embarrass you, Chuck]. This is a very complex subject. No one here IMHO understands all there is to know about it. Doctors specifically too often seem to be in over their heads when the typical response is not achieved; but that can be extended to all of us MOL. Luck, .. .. > Posted by: " Tami " tamijmoore@... > <mailto:tamijmoore@...?Subject=%20Re%3ANewbie> tamijmoore > <tamijmoore> > > > Sun Sep 5, 2010 1:34 pm (PDT) > > > > I do get copies of all my results and have them in an excel > spreadsheet. I've got results for 3 years of normal blood tests. > > I don't say that I know everything I'm just suggesting that perhaps > there is a part of this subject that you aren't familiar with. Perhaps > if you did some of the research I've suggested that you might > understand this condition better. > > Believe me I've found out the hard way...harder than the usual > hypothyroid sufferer. And, my efforts have paid off and I feel better. > > Perhaps a more open mind or agenda might help with understanding and > learning about this aspect of hypothyroidism. It exists and I am proof > and there are thousands of others since the 1800's that have benefited > from being treated just based on their symptoms and temperature. > > I'm not here to say that everything you know is wrong...I'm suggesting > that possibly there is more to this than you've researched. > > Tami > http://www.hypothyroidblog.com <http://www.hypothyroidblog.com> > > > > > > I take it from your multiple responses without actually giving your > results and the lab ranges that you have only been told by your doctor > that they're normal and don't actually get copies of your labs. Many > doctors tell patients that they are normal when in fact that they are > not. Chuck is probably one of the most knowledgeable people you could > come across, and I would venture > > to say it sounds like you are the one who doesn't know everything > about this subject. > > > > I and thousands of other hypo patients have had to learn the hard > way, and I hope you won't be one of them. Good luck to you. > > > > > > <>Roni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2010 Report Share Posted September 6, 2010 As assistant moderator I think I can assure you that you're not on any kind of a " ban " list. I do find it somewhat strange that you seem resistant to the one thing that might actually help us learn something new: Post your lab results along with the ranges. " Normal " readings, as interpreted by a doctor unfamiliar with dealing with the small percentage of patients who do not fall into the typical pattern often are not actual " normal " . As I've said: I personally cannot evaluate them, but there are others here who probably would find them quite informative. I would be very surprised if no one sees anything abnormal from a full test series from anyone who actually has hypothyroidism. No one here has all the answers. IMHO neither do you. So we all need to be open to learning. Regards, .. .. > > Posted by: " Tami " tamijmoore@... > <mailto:tamijmoore@...?Subject=%20Re%3ANewbie> tamijmoore > <tamijmoore> > > > Sun Sep 5, 2010 2:03 pm (PDT) > > > > Have you looked at the sites? Have you googled Hypothyroidism type 2? > > I am helping others...that is all I'm doing. > > I don't understand why you two are so resistant to additional > information and are being so abusive to me? > > I suppose if you block me from this group it will be the truth of your > resistance to new information. > > Tami Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2010 Report Share Posted September 6, 2010 You're IMHO going to need a LOT of help if your idea of a credible source is Dr. Mark Starr. .. .. > > Posted by: " Tami " tamijmoore@... > <mailto:tamijmoore@...?Subject=%20Re%3ANewbie> tamijmoore > <tamijmoore> > > > Sun Sep 5, 2010 2:03 pm (PDT) > > > > Have you looked at the sites? Have you googled Hypothyroidism type 2? > > I am helping others...that is all I'm doing. > > I don't understand why you two are so resistant to additional > information and are being so abusive to me? > > I suppose if you block me from this group it will be the truth of your > resistance to new information. > > Tami Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2010 Report Share Posted September 6, 2010 Tami, You wrote: > > ... I'm not surprised that you don't believe me. My own doctors > wouldn't diagnose me until I found one who would! > I don't believe you for the simple reason that what you stated was patently and demonstrably false. You said you had taken " all " the thyroid tests over and over. However, you only listed a handful out of many tests that you did not take. If you want to believe that your tests were normal without letting anyone else know what they are, that is your business. However, contrary to what you claim, labs do NOT rate blood tests as " normal. " Rather they give you a number with units and a reference range. Labs will typically indicate if you are outside a range, but even that may be " normal, " depending on the circumstances. If anyone is interpreting a position for results within that reference range as normal, it might be your doctor or you, not the lab. However, lab reference ranges are determined experimentally from an a-symptomatic population and the labs reagents. They rarely have the same meaning for someone taking medication, which is how we might be able to help you. You seem to be unwilling to give us those results and ranges. Given your several misstatements and exaggerations, I am inclined to wonder whether you actually did take all those tests every five weeks. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2010 Report Share Posted September 6, 2010 Tami, You wrote: > > Desiccated thyroid has T2 and T1 in addition to T3 and T4. The > molecules may be the same in synthetic as desiccated but it doesn't > provide the additional T2 & T1 that the desiccated does. > The concentrations of T2 in dessicated thyroids has been measured, and it is a tiny fraction of a percent of that of the T3. Since the activity of T2 is also a tiny fraction of a percent of T3 (even less than T4), there is no possibility that T2 in Armour contributes significantly to any pharmacological effect. Since T2 and T1 are metabolic by products of T3, with a one-to-one conversion of the originating T4 into T2, we get all the T2 we could possibly need by a supply of T4, thousands of times more T2 and T1 than Armour supplies directly. Further, if there were a physiological need for either T2 or T1, our body could simply stop recycling or eliminating them as waste. If there is an advantage in Armour over synthetic forms, it must be from the ready availability of T3. The ratio of T3/T4 is higher in Armour than in human thyroid glands. When you add the fact that at best we only absorb about 80% of the T4, Armour is really a T3 heavy medication. That is great for people that need it, but the benefit does not come from the tiny amounts of T2 or T1 that are also there. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2010 Report Share Posted September 6, 2010 you've got it! That's the problem the T3/T4 coming and going from the thyroid which is where the blood is tested I test just fine because the process is just fine. Its when it gets into cells and organs and skin, etc. that my body can't " deal " with it. So, I THINK that my T1 and T2 might be affected since it seems that they are lower on the process chain and at glandular level or something. ...speculation is right ! I know! I'm only on a bit more than .5 grain...that's nothing! I have a friend that takes 125 and he still has his thyroid! I was on synthetic T4 and T3 and was responding just fine to it but was really interested in trying the desiccated since I'd read so much about it as really helping with this particular type 2. Thanks for getting what I've been talking about . :-) Tami ________________________________ From: <res075oh@...> hypothyroidism Sent: Sun, September 5, 2010 5:43:37 PM Subject: Re:Newbie Well, T3 and/or T4 break down at least partially into T1 and T2, so if you're processing these properly you can't fail to have T1 and T2. I think. They're generally considered to be MOL waste products IIRC; with little or no benefits beyond speculation. As you've mentioned, it seems your case is strange. One of the strange things to me is that you seem to do so well on such a small dose. The usual complaint that we receive from those who don't get proper relief from symptoms is that they cannot get enough medication prescribed; or they get T4 alone when they think they would do better with Armour or similar. Is the 45 mcg you mention taking Armour or T4? .. .. > > Posted by: " Tami " tamijmoore@... > <mailto:tamijmoore@...?Subject=%20Re%3ANewbie> tamijmoore > <tamijmoore> > > > Sun Sep 5, 2010 12:35 pm (PDT) > > > > Desiccated thyroid has T2 and T1 in addition to T3 and T4. The > molecules may be the same in synthetic as desiccated but it doesn't > provide the additional T2 & T1 that the desiccated does. > > " T4, the most well known of all the thyroid hormones, heats the body > and speeds metabolism (of fats, proteins, and carbohydrates) and heart > rate. T3, the most active form of thyroid hormone, also heats the body > and speeds metabolism and heart rate. At best, T4 is only about > one-quarter as potent as T3, and in any case, most is converted into > the more active T3 by the liver, kidneys, and other body cells. T2 > stimulates metabolism, while one animal study showed that T1 cools the > body and slows the heart. Together, all four of these related hormones > probably act synergistically in ways that are not yet fully > understood. " http://www.21centurymed.com/?page_id=12 > <http://www.21centurymed.com/?page_id=12> > > I'm not saying that Armour will work for everyone but I believe with > my type of HypoT-type 2 where the thyroid is producing enough T3 & T4 > but my body doesn't process it properly that the additional T2 & T1 it > makes a difference. At least it has for me. :-) > > Tami > > > > > > I'm glad you're doing well with Armour. Quite a few people have > > reported doing better with it, especially when compared to T4 alone. > > > > HOWEVER: AFAIK none of the controlled tests have been able to show > > improved results from taking Armour as opposed to taking T4 alone. That > > to me seems a little strange given that there are sometimes [i think] > > T4/T3 conversion problems or binding problems that could cause T4 alone > > to not work so well. > > > > As for Armour being " ...a more full spectrum medication... " as > oppose to > > the same quantity of synthetic T4 and T3 I don't see how you arrive at > > that. T4 and T3 are the active ingredients in Armour and you can get > > synthetic medications with T4 and T3 in them. And all of the T4/T3 > > components of medications are bioidentical regardless of the source. > > The " natural " and " synthetic " molecules are exactly the same. > > > > Regards, > > > > . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2010 Report Share Posted September 6, 2010 I have. It appears very similar to other things I've read; not something new. Does any of the below sound familiar? .. .. > For about ten years, " functional *hypothyroidism* " has been promoted > as " 's Syndrome, " a term concocted by E. Denis , M.D., who > practiced in Florida in the early 1990s. The syndrome's supposed > manifestations include fatigue, headaches, PMS, hair loss, > irritability, fluid retention, depression, decreased memory, low sex > drive, unhealthy nails, easy weight gain, and about 60 other symptoms. > claims to have discovered a type of abnormally low thyroid > function in which routine blood tests of thyroid are often normal. He > states that the main diagnostic sign is a body temperature that > averages below 98.6� F (oral), and that the diagnosis is confirmed if > the patient responds to treatment with a " special thyroid hormone > treatment. " .. .. And how about this: .. .. > " Low thyroid " (*hypothyroidism*) was likewise unjustifiably diagnosed > in many cases of fatigue and/or obesity. Today's " fad " diagnoses used > to explain various common symptoms are chronic fatigue syndrome, > hypoglycemia, food allergies, parasites, " environmental illness, " > " candidiasis hypersensitivity, " " 's Syndrome, " " leaky gut > syndrome, " and " mercury amalgam toxicity. " Some products are or have > been sold with claims based on cockeyed theories about " oxygen > deficiency " and " magnetic deficiency. " The first four on this list are > legitimate conditions that unscientific practitioners overdiagnose. > The rest are figments of pseudoscientific imagination. > > Doctors who overdiagnose *hypothyroidism* often base their diagnosis > on " low " temperature readings determined by placing the thermometer > under the armpit. This is not a valid test of thyroid function. Proper > diagnosis requires blood tests that measure thyroid hormone levels. > .. .. You might be aware of how Dr. Peatfield diagnosed and treated hypothyroidism [before he lost his license to practice medicine]: .. .. > *Consumer Health Digest, May 21, 2001 > <http://www.ncahf.org/digest/01-21.html>*, 7/12/2004British " thyroid > doctor " suspended. The license of Barry Durrant Peatfield, of Purley, > Surrey, has been suspended from practice for 18 months while the > General Medical Council investigates whether improperly diagnosed and > treated patients that he claimed were suffering from *hypothyroidism* > Although this may or may not lead to disciplinary action, the doctor > states that he cannot afford to fight to clear his name and will > therefore retire. According to a press report, he has relied on a body > temperature test for diagnosis and used a desiccated thyroid product > for treatment. .. .. If you have fallen for the homeopathy scam you aren't going to believe what is written here; no matter how valid it is. It would probably be a good idea to read it anyway, because if you're reasonably intelligent and you keep researching the subject you will find most of the postulates indisputable: .. .. > http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/homeo.html Luck, .. .. > Posted by: " Tami " tamijmoore@... > <mailto:tamijmoore@...?Subject=%20Re%3ANewbie> tamijmoore > <tamijmoore> > > > Sun Sep 5, 2010 2:10 pm (PDT) > > > > Have you googled Hypothyroidism Type 2? > > ...I could really do without the name calling... > > Tami Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2010 Report Share Posted September 6, 2010 Tami, You wrote: > > Chuck, I don't know what to tell you...I feel better and my symptoms > are dissipating on thyroid medication. > > My doctor is satisfied with the tests and she is repeating them to > make sure that they thyroid medication doesn't make me HyperT. The > tests continue to be normal. > > Could it be that what I'm experiencing isn't what you've experienced > or have knowledge about? I'm just asking... > I'm glad you feel better with the Armour, but the list has no way to judge whether what you are doing is truly optimal without the specific test results. Again, there are inconsistencies we cannot address without more information. If your doctor judges your tests to be normal, then why keep repeating the tests that measure binding potential and antibodies. Do you have Hashimoto's? Do you have a familial or idiopathic form? The tests could tell us, but those tests don't need to be repeated, once we know the cause. Just trying to help. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2010 Report Share Posted September 6, 2010 Tami, we don't need to " ...update our knowledge... " with something that is so blatantly " been there, done that " . What is so " new, wonderful and miraculous " to you is old, stale and extremely tiring/boring to those of us who have been through it so many times before. You can believe whatever you want. As you continue your research I would suggest you try to develop some method to differentiate scams, con artists and quacks from credible information. You owe it to yourself, even if you didn't care a whit about those you might mislead with false information. Luck, .. .. > > > Posted by: " Tami " tamijmoore@... > <mailto:tamijmoore@...?Subject=%20Re%3ANewbie> tamijmoore > <tamijmoore> > > > Sun Sep 5, 2010 2:19 pm (PDT) > > > > You are amazing... > > If you know about this information and know it isn't new why don't you > believe that I suffer from HypoT-type 2? That it is a condition that > exists and is under-treated? > > I make no money off of those sites...none. I'm not spamming I'm trying > to educate and share my experiences with others. I'm not here to argue > or make you wrong. I'm trying to help others who are feeling Hypo > symptoms and being told that they aren't sick from it because their > blood work is fine. > > What is so hard to believe about this if you are so familiar with the > research and people who need thyroid treatment and aren't getting it? > > Would you mis-direct people who come here for information because you > refuse to update your...knowledge? > > Tami Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2010 Report Share Posted September 6, 2010 You crack me up! I'm not lying, I'm not manipulating...I'm sharing my experience. And, I'm not the only one who's experiencing this and that is why I'm doing this. Tami ________________________________ From: Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> hypothyroidism Sent: Sun, September 5, 2010 7:32:25 PM Subject: Re: Re:Newbie Tami, You wrote: > > ... I'm not surprised that you don't believe me. My own doctors > wouldn't diagnose me until I found one who would! > I don't believe you for the simple reason that what you stated was patently and demonstrably false. You said you had taken " all " the thyroid tests over and over. However, you only listed a handful out of many tests that you did not take. If you want to believe that your tests were normal without letting anyone else know what they are, that is your business. However, contrary to what you claim, labs do NOT rate blood tests as " normal. " Rather they give you a number with units and a reference range. Labs will typically indicate if you are outside a range, but even that may be " normal, " depending on the circumstances. If anyone is interpreting a position for results within that reference range as normal, it might be your doctor or you, not the lab. However, lab reference ranges are determined experimentally from an a-symptomatic population and the labs reagents. They rarely have the same meaning for someone taking medication, which is how we might be able to help you. You seem to be unwilling to give us those results and ranges. Given your several misstatements and exaggerations, I am inclined to wonder whether you actually did take all those tests every five weeks. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2010 Report Share Posted September 6, 2010 My T3 and T4 are fine coming and going out of my thyroid. I believe that T2 and T1 are still unknown how they're used or where they are created and frankly you don't know what my body is doing with or without T2 and T1. And, blood tests aren't going to tell you my T2/T1 levels. I'm just taking a chance on it, testing it on my own body, to see if I respond to it any better than the synthetic that i tried first. From what I've read about Armour or desiccated meds is that they come under so much scrutiny (as they should!) they test 2-3 times before creating the pill. So it would seem strange that it would be created for the level of a pig instead of a human since that is who their customers are. I have an odd type of HypoT so I have to keep an open mind about therapies. But, am willing to research my self silly, test on myself in the quest for a cure...and just talk about this HypoT-Type 2. I'd like to hear more from people who are experiencing my issues and are frustrated. Those of you who can just take a few or more tests with a doctor and get meds...I'm jealous of...this has been a royal pain! But I'm getting results and oh it makes it all worth it. Just want to help others... Tami ________________________________ From: Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> hypothyroidism Sent: Sun, September 5, 2010 7:50:10 PM Subject: Re: Re:Newbie Tami, You wrote: > > Desiccated thyroid has T2 and T1 in addition to T3 and T4. The > molecules may be the same in synthetic as desiccated but it doesn't > provide the additional T2 & T1 that the desiccated does. > The concentrations of T2 in dessicated thyroids has been measured, and it is a tiny fraction of a percent of that of the T3. Since the activity of T2 is also a tiny fraction of a percent of T3 (even less than T4), there is no possibility that T2 in Armour contributes significantly to any pharmacological effect. Since T2 and T1 are metabolic by products of T3, with a one-to-one conversion of the originating T4 into T2, we get all the T2 we could possibly need by a supply of T4, thousands of times more T2 and T1 than Armour supplies directly. Further, if there were a physiological need for either T2 or T1, our body could simply stop recycling or eliminating them as waste. If there is an advantage in Armour over synthetic forms, it must be from the ready availability of T3. The ratio of T3/T4 is higher in Armour than in human thyroid glands. When you add the fact that at best we only absorb about 80% of the T4, Armour is really a T3 heavy medication. That is great for people that need it, but the benefit does not come from the tiny amounts of T2 or T1 that are also there. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.