Guest guest Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 I have a slightly different view. I took my own temps and showed them to my internist, who seemed alarmed at the numbers. When I just told him about being cold, he acted unimpressed. It wasn't till I showed him the actual temps that he did an about face. I think more patients need to show their doctors proof of the things they are saying so that the doctors can feel they have " evidence " . Of course this means that most of them don't believe their patients, and that is the truth. There are thousands of us who have felt many times like slapping a doctor with a totally closed mind. It was such a revelation joining this and then other groups, posting my labs and finding out just how bad my condition was and what to do about it. It also gave me information and ammunition to discuss with the doctor. Most of them think patients don't know anything, but when one can have an adult informed discussion with them it makes a difference. <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge! Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: <res075oh@...> Subject: Re:Newbie hypothyroidism Date: Tuesday, September 7, 2010, 7:09 AM The owner of the list has abandoned it with only one moderator, Ira Fine. Said owner totally ignores this list or any efforts to contact him. Ira has asked me to serve as his assistant, there being too much for one person to handle; especially since Ira has many other groups [iIRC] as well as health problems. So the list is what we make it. We discuss and cuss both allopathic and alternative methods of treating hypothyroidism. My world view, as I have stated many times, is from the allopathic/scientific viewpoint, although I have no credentials whatsoever. Others have taken alternative positions; each comes under attack or is provided support according to the view of the poster. Alternative practices that have any validity often over time may become more accepted into allopathic medicine. I'm pretty sure that now many doctors accept the possibility of things like sub-clinical hypothyroidism, although many may not. IMHO the changing of the TSH " normal " range may well be at least partially due to the influence of alternative viewpoints. Best, .. .. > > Posted by: " cathrynbe2002 " cathryn.be@... > <mailto:cathryn.be@...?Subject=%20Re%3ANewbie> > cathrynbe2002 <cathrynbe2002> > > > Mon Sep 6, 2010 7:24 am (PDT) > > > > Tami, > > I've read in several places that body temperature can indicate low > thyroid - there are people who believe that and people who don't. I'm > certainly not an expert with in depth knowledge like others here and > I'm open to all alternative viewpoints. I actually signed on to this > list because I thought it *was* looking at alternatives - that's what > the list description states - however it seems that's not the > orientation of the list anymore. Fine. ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 I don't know whether you have hypothyroidism or not and I couldn't prove it personally if you did provide your complete thyroid panel results. I've told you before I'm ignorant on that subject. I have no interest in proving that you do or don't have a disease that is not established as a disease by some credible source. Looking at Google I don't see any credible support specifically for hypo type two, which at first glance seems to be just a rehashed version of the discredited 's Syndrome [but maybe not]. People who come here typically either want help in getting proper treatment for hypothyroidism, or they want help in understanding the disease and its treatment options [often both]. Some are more interested in alternative methods while others may prefer allopathic. In either case we very frequently ask for blood test results and we typically specify that ranges need to be included. Those well versed in blood test results [not me] can often make suggestions both about possible treatment [including that not suggested by an allopathic doctor] as well as providing information to help the patient to understand the ailment and to know how to approach it personally. You seem to not want any help; sorry I was slow to pick that up. You also seem to not be interested in what any of us know about the subject from our experience, research and what we've read here and elsewhere. You don't want to hear anything that might conflict with your limited knowledge on the subject. You present ideas that are new and wonderful to you but are old hat [and totally discredited] to many here. For crying out loud, you're using a doctor who uses an iodine skin absorption test! I'm not really surprised that you don't know how ridiculous that is, but it does somewhat surprise me if your doctor does not. Even the " iodine docs " [brownstein, Abraham and Flechas] who so vigourously promoted that for so long [and are associated with Optimox, a company that sells iodine products] finally abandoned it after it came under attack even from far-out alternative practitioners who almost would not rule out any alternative process, no matter how foolish. You're welcome to present your results here. When/if you start to " preach " and include facts we know to be unfounded or false don't be surprised if someone presents a rebuttal. You really shouldn't consider that " mean " . I have never attacked you or called you " ...bald, old or fat... " or any other pejoritive. Luck, .. .. > Posted by: " Tami " tamijmoore@... > <mailto:tamijmoore@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Newbie> > tamijmoore <tamijmoore> > > > Tue Sep 7, 2010 9:31 am (PDT) > > > > , I find having a conversation with you is like talking to two > people one minute you want to engage in a conversation and the next > you are accusatory and plain mean... > > >From what I've read about HyperT vs. HypoT that a lot of people go > back and forth between the two. I think that I might have been HyperT > in my youth and as I matured and had some events pass that I've gone > into HypoT. > > There is a lot of research I believe, however, it is more historical. > People don't die in droves anymore from thyroid issues. We just suffer > now. > > I realize you are trying to prove once and for all that I don't have > HypoT through my blood work but it's simply not true...believe it or > not . > > Tami > > > > > > The swinging from hypEr to hypO typically happens mostly [or maybe > > exclusively?] with those who have Hashimoto's. Do you have/have you > > been tested for that? > > > > It's my understanding that you can at times have some of the same > > symptoms for hypEr as from hypO. How often this occurs I don't know. > > In my case I very frequently had a racing heart although I was hypO > > rather than hypEr. There are multiple possible causes for many symptoms. > > > > I think there are probably hypo conditions where T3 can be very > > beneficial [binding or conversion problems], although I don't know if > > there is a great deal of credible research to support that notion. One > > of my reasons for requesting your lab results was that if you have a > > complete thyroid panel sometimes those more educated on the subject > than > > I can pick out whether you probably have such a condition [even when > all > > readings are within " normal " range]. > > > > Luck, > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 My information certainly contains old data; but also from pretty much present day cutting-edge updates. While iodine deficiency in increasing in the US [probably more from the unsubstantiated notion that sea salt without iodine is better than salt with iodine than anything else] I don't see how all of your " T " numbers could be normal if you don't get sufficient iodine. At least not to the extent that it would cause or contribute to hypothyroidism. All of your thyroxine derivatives depend upon a supply of iodine. I believe Chuck has addressed the bogus iodine skin absorption test upon which you and your doctor are depending, which was shown to be a hoax 70 or 80 years ago. I guess the fact that the " iodine docs " kept promoting it to sell iodine products until fairly recently has conned a lot of people. You might consider whether its possible that your doctor has put you down as a self-deluded hypochondriac and decided to simply give you what you want. If you're as hard-headed as I am and as you sound then she might well determine that to be by far the easiest procedure. Luck, .. .. > > Posted by: " Tami " tamijmoore@... > <mailto:tamijmoore@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Newbie> > tamijmoore <tamijmoore> > > > Tue Sep 7, 2010 9:36 am (PDT) > > > > , my doctor uses a liquid on my arm and I believe that is the > same solution > that is used for first aid. She places a large circle on my arm and > can tell > from that, if it dissipates quickly I'm fine if it fades slowly I'm > low on > Iodine. I believe there are blood tests too. If you would rather have > something more clinical. > > Your information is old , there is a serious rise in Iodine > deficiency from > what I've read in many places here are a few reasons. People are using > less > salt in their diets, aren't buying iodized salt and using sea salt, > like me. > > Tami > > ____________ > ____________________ > From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>> > hypothyroidism > <mailto:hypothyroidism%40> > Sent: Mon, September 6, 2010 11:16:58 AM > Subject: Re: Newbie > > What I'm trying to find out is what specific test did your doctor do > that indicates low iodine? What test, what result, what ranges? > > I'm no expert but if you make plenty of T4, T3 [all ranges " normal " ] > then I'm wondering how you could be low in iodine. In the US most of us > typically get about 200% of the RDA in our diets. > > Thanks, > > . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 What Roni knows is so new that a lot of it is not known by the average doctor; probably very few if any. She's earned it the hard way, with a lot of pain and suffering along the way while doing her research. Her condition and treatment certainly would not apply to you; but IMHO you'd do well to listen to her experiences when she writes if you really want to learn something new; maybe something that you can't find anywhere else. That being said IIRC she has no professional credentials; for that you'd do well to listen to Chuck. You probably will never find anyone else whose historical and current knowledge about hypothyroidism is at his level. Luck, .. .. > Posted by: " Tami " tamijmoore@... > <mailto:tamijmoore@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Newbie> > tamijmoore <tamijmoore> > > > Tue Sep 7, 2010 9:40 am (PDT) > > > > Roni, that is not it and I've suggested several times that you google > Hypothyroidism Type 2 or read some of the books on the subject or the > history. > > And, no you are not open to discussing anything new. > > Tami Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 , she's so ignorant and arrogant that she thinks no one else in the world can google or read books and articles. In my opinion with that kind of " thinking " it is useless to try and impart any real information at all. That's why I have stopped participating with her inane posts. <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge! Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: <res075oh@...> Subject: Re: Newbie hypothyroidism Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 12:16 PM What Roni knows is so new that a lot of it is not known by the average doctor; probably very few if any. She's earned it the hard way, with a lot of pain and suffering along the way while doing her research. Her condition and treatment certainly would not apply to you; but IMHO you'd do well to listen to her experiences when she writes if you really want to learn something new; maybe something that you can't find anywhere else. That being said IIRC she has no professional credentials; for that you'd do well to listen to Chuck. You probably will never find anyone else whose historical and current knowledge about hypothyroidism is at his level. Luck, .. .. > Posted by: " Tami " tamijmoore@... > <mailto:tamijmoore@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Newbie> > tamijmoore <tamijmoore> > > > Tue Sep 7, 2010 9:40 am (PDT) > > > > Roni, that is not it and I've suggested several times that you google > Hypothyroidism Type 2 or read some of the books on the subject or the > history. > > And, no you are not open to discussing anything new. > > Tami ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2010 Report Share Posted September 9, 2010 Well, we're all no doubt afflicted with different levels of ignorance on many different subjects; so I guess she's not really alone in that. As for " arrogant " , well, lets just agree that she's convinced she has the " one true path " in one particular area and that we are all " ignorant, dirty heathen bullies with closed minds... " because we reject her insight. It does seem passingly strange that given her admitted newness to the subject it does not occur to her that those of us who have been there and done that for years would not have also stumbled upon the same " new " ideas she presents and have evaluated them; sometimes repeatedly. Luck, .. .. > Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@... > <mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Newbie> > matchermaam <matchermaam> > > > Wed Sep 8, 2010 2:01 pm (PDT) > > > > , she's so ignorant and arrogant that she thinks no one else in > the world can google or read books and articles. In my opinion > with that kind of " thinking " it is useless to try and impart any real > information at all. That's why I have stopped participating > with her inane posts. > > <>Roni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2010 Report Share Posted September 10, 2010 Dear Group Eventhough i'm not quite well at the moment and would normally avoid doing anything as daring as this...I feel compelled to bring this up and add my penny's worth, no1 because i think it is personally important for me to be able to voice " my truth " no2 to help clear things up and no3 in an effort to restore some balance to this group because I am a member and it is affecting me, however, i will not quit my membership because of it and will communicate on a private level if I have to because this topic is of utmost relevance in my life. Firstly, i've spoken with Tammy, hi tammy, and you are a beatiful intelligent and dynamic woman infact YOU ALL ARE beautiful, intelligent and dynamic. Everybody's experiences and contributions are valuable here eventhough those experiences and the knowledge gained from such may differ it does not mean that something read will not benefit somebody on some level. I wanted to trace the messages back to the beginning to see what all the fuss was about, it looks like this is the first message tammy wrote and to be honest I don't see the point in reading through all the threads because it is futile, it just looks like you are all arguing about type 2 hypo or subclinical hypo. I know the answer cos i've lived it but there'e no point in arguing about it, is there? Would anyone like to argue with me about it? Do you trust the word of a fellow human sister or brother? I wander if the peoples of this world will ever learn to have unconditional love for one another, and to actually be able to see the beauty that is there in each and every individual because when we do we will realise that actually we are all ONE and the beauty i see in me is the beauty that is in YOU. None of us are perfect, we all make mistakes, sometimes we even call eachother names...I personally think you should all apologise to one the other : ) but that is just my humble opinion. , i believe in holistic healing and quackery as i've heard you call it, does that mean we can't communicate? of course not that is just my opinion, do I think any less of you because you call it quackery or dismiss the things that I personally stand for like Green energy? No because that is your opinion and you are entitled to it and I respect it and keep an open mind when I do decide to start work on my solar powered generator or try to run my motor on water, i'd use apples actually : ), and when i research alternatives your words may remind me to be careful of cons...it's not easy sifting through the lies to find truth, the important thing is i need to find out for myself. Live & let Live, you are a wonderful group and it wouldn't matter to me how much abuse you all wanted to hurl this way...I would still love you all, because in each of you I see an aspect of my own self & I love myself, if i didn't I would never have come to this group in my darkness seeking a light i would've let myself go as originally intended...However, the light and love i found here brought me back to a state of healing, for which i'm truly thankful. We don't have to be right all the time. When we make mistakes we learn from them. People can figure things out for themselves, it's usually the most effective way. For years I was abused, i thought the reason i was abused was because the person was evil...i discovered they weren't evil at all they were just very ill with undiagnosed thyroid inbalance. I forgive you mum x Well I will leave it on that note..it would be nice to see harmony in the group, people discussing their differences in a creative, loving way...and even if that doesn't happen that's ok too, I accept you as you all are warts and all as i do my own self. Thank you for reading and for this opportunity to share my thoughts, which in the grand scheme of things is all in the name of love, peace & awakening on this earth. Wishing you all vibrant health & well being Sophie x > > > > Most people [probably way over 90%] take one simple pill per day and > > live perfectly normal lives. TSH is the allopathic standard for testing > > for hypothyroidism. > > > > Some small percentage of hypo patients do not do will with standard > > treatment. As a matter of fact some of them go through a living h*ll > > trying to get effective treatment. A larger percentage of members of > > groups like this are from the latter group, as those who do well often > > do not follow up in researching sites such as this. So we hear a lot of > > heart-rending stories and try to suggest whatever help we can. The > > tribulations of some will flat make a grown man cry... > > > > Your treatment so far sounds normal. After a month or so on the 50 mcg > > of T4 you will have further blood work and probably will have your > > dosage raised, as 50 mcg is typically not enough if your thyroid has > > completely shut down. This may happen a few times before you get to > > your final dose. > > > > OTOH if you have an autoimmune condition called Hashimoto's it can be > > more complex. Your doctor can check your antibodies to see if you have > > that. In Hashimoto's your body attacks your thyroid gland and almost > > certainly will eventually fully destroy it. There is no cure, no way to > > really even slow it down. In addition it may wax and wan from time to > > time which can cause your thyroxine output to vary. That in turn can > > cause your need for T4 to vary all over the place, and keeping your dose > > in the proper range can be very difficult. > > > > We have/had one member [] who is a doctor or nurse practitioner > > IIRC but she hasn't posted in a while. AFAIK there are no other doctors > > here. Chuck is a scientist and he as well as other members of his > > family have hypothyroidism. He is the " go to " person for accurate > > information WRT science and the chemistry of hypo treatment. > > > > Roni has a wealth of experience in the difficult treatment scenario, > > unfortunately most of it personal. She knows a lot more about test > > results and RT3 than probably anyone except Chuck, at least among the > > regular posters. > > > > I have no credentials whatsoever, although I have a decent background > > knowledge in science; at least on the lay level. I'm also fairly > > experienced in evaluating quack claims and other bs. My approach is > > mostly allopathic rather than alternative; and my " world view " will be > > presented from that viewpoint in my posts. > > > > Best, > > > > . > > . > > > > > > > Posted by: " Becky " becky6327@ > > > <mailto:becky6327@?Subject=%20Re%3ANewbie> becky6327 > > > <becky6327> > > > > > > > > > Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:29 am (PDT) > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I was just recently (this week) diagnosed with hypothyroidism. My TSH > > > level was 5.25. My Internist put me on Levothyroxine 50 mcg. She wants > > > me to come back in 2 months for another TSH test; I'm thinking I > > > should probably ask her to test my T3/T4? I am also a vegetarian (for > > > the last 7 mths and most of my protein comes from soy products--oh > > > no!). I am hoping to gain a lot of information from this > > > group--already it seems quite a few people are very knowledgeable- > > > -doctors? There are a few acronyms I am unfamiliar with... > > > > > > Becky > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2010 Report Share Posted September 10, 2010 Sophie, as far as I'm concerned there was never any issue with me about type 2 hypo. Rather it was the attitude that I am stupid and uninformed and had never read anything and didn't know anything. She doesn't know me, she doesn't know how long I've been dealing with this, doesn't know what I've read, what I've learned and just simply makes the assumption that she is the first person to have read what she has read. Her response that when we asked her to post her labs and ranges was that we're just trying to prove that she doesn't have what she has. That's totally untrue. Given the fact that is pretty much totally of the allopathic mindset, which he has honestly stated many times, he does understand that not everyone is the same and stated to her several times that he wasn't trying to discredit her, as did I and Chuck. All of that was to no avail. She also stated that she doesn't want any help from us. So fine, if she doesn't want any help, considers us all stupid and not knowledgeable, as well as closed minded, then the only thing I can conclude from this is that she is here for some other agenda. To me it looks like she is trying to get clicks for the websites she posts. That is my take on this as far as she is concerned. I appreciate you trying tio straighten this out, but unfortuately it can't be done without her participation, which she has refused several times. Any time you want to ask a question, answer one or make a comment, please feel free to do so. Thank you for your interest and I hope this forum can help you in some way. <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge! Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: Sophie <sophielobel@...> Subject: Re:Newbie hypothyroidism Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 6:12 AM Dear Group Eventhough i'm not quite well at the moment and would normally avoid doing anything as daring as this...I feel compelled to bring this up and add my penny's worth, no1 because i think it is personally important for me to be able to voice " my truth " no2 to help clear things up and no3 in an effort to restore some balance to this group because I am a member and it is affecting me, however, i will not quit my membership because of it and will communicate on a private level if I have to because this topic is of utmost relevance in my life. Firstly, i've spoken with Tammy, hi tammy, and you are a beatiful intelligent and dynamic woman infact YOU ALL ARE beautiful, intelligent and dynamic. Everybody's experiences and contributions are valuable here eventhough those experiences and the knowledge gained from such may differ it does not mean that something read will not benefit somebody on some level. I wanted to trace the messages back to the beginning to see what all the fuss was about, it looks like this is the first message tammy wrote and to be honest I don't see the point in reading through all the threads because it is futile, it just looks like you are all arguing about type 2 hypo or subclinical hypo. I know the answer cos i've lived it but there'e no point in arguing about it, is there? Would anyone like to argue with me about it? Do you trust the word of a fellow human sister or brother? I wander if the peoples of this world will ever learn to have unconditional love for one another, and to actually be able to see the beauty that is there in each and every individual because when we do we will realise that actually we are all ONE and the beauty i see in me is the beauty that is in YOU. None of us are perfect, we all make mistakes, sometimes we even call eachother names...I personally think you should all apologise to one the other : ) but that is just my humble opinion. , i believe in holistic healing and quackery as i've heard you call it, does that mean we can't communicate? of course not that is just my opinion, do I think any less of you because you call it quackery or dismiss the things that I personally stand for like Green energy? No because that is your opinion and you are entitled to it and I respect it and keep an open mind when I do decide to start work on my solar powered generator or try to run my motor on water, i'd use apples actually : ), and when i research alternatives your words may remind me to be careful of cons...it's not easy sifting through the lies to find truth, the important thing is i need to find out for myself. Live & let Live, you are a wonderful group and it wouldn't matter to me how much abuse you all wanted to hurl this way...I would still love you all, because in each of you I see an aspect of my own self & I love myself, if i didn't I would never have come to this group in my darkness seeking a light i would've let myself go as originally intended...However, the light and love i found here brought me back to a state of healing, for which i'm truly thankful. We don't have to be right all the time. When we make mistakes we learn from them. People can figure things out for themselves, it's usually the most effective way. For years I was abused, i thought the reason i was abused was because the person was evil...i discovered they weren't evil at all they were just very ill with undiagnosed thyroid inbalance. I forgive you mum x Well I will leave it on that note..it would be nice to see harmony in the group, people discussing their differences in a creative, loving way...and even if that doesn't happen that's ok too, I accept you as you all are warts and all as i do my own self. Thank you for reading and for this opportunity to share my thoughts, which in the grand scheme of things is all in the name of love, peace & awakening on this earth. Wishing you all vibrant health & well being Sophie x > > > > Most people [probably way over 90%] take one simple pill per day and > > live perfectly normal lives. TSH is the allopathic standard for testing > > for hypothyroidism. > > > > Some small percentage of hypo patients do not do will with standard > > treatment. As a matter of fact some of them go through a living h*ll > > trying to get effective treatment. A larger percentage of members of > > groups like this are from the latter group, as those who do well often > > do not follow up in researching sites such as this. So we hear a lot of > > heart-rending stories and try to suggest whatever help we can. The > > tribulations of some will flat make a grown man cry... > > > > Your treatment so far sounds normal. After a month or so on the 50 mcg > > of T4 you will have further blood work and probably will have your > > dosage raised, as 50 mcg is typically not enough if your thyroid has > > completely shut down. This may happen a few times before you get to > > your final dose. > > > > OTOH if you have an autoimmune condition called Hashimoto's it can be > > more complex. Your doctor can check your antibodies to see if you have > > that. In Hashimoto's your body attacks your thyroid gland and almost > > certainly will eventually fully destroy it. There is no cure, no way to > > really even slow it down. In addition it may wax and wan from time to > > time which can cause your thyroxine output to vary. That in turn can > > cause your need for T4 to vary all over the place, and keeping your dose > > in the proper range can be very difficult. > > > > We have/had one member [] who is a doctor or nurse practitioner > > IIRC but she hasn't posted in a while. AFAIK there are no other doctors > > here. Chuck is a scientist and he as well as other members of his > > family have hypothyroidism. He is the " go to " person for accurate > > information WRT science and the chemistry of hypo treatment. > > > > Roni has a wealth of experience in the difficult treatment scenario, > > unfortunately most of it personal. She knows a lot more about test > > results and RT3 than probably anyone except Chuck, at least among the > > regular posters. > > > > I have no credentials whatsoever, although I have a decent background > > knowledge in science; at least on the lay level. I'm also fairly > > experienced in evaluating quack claims and other bs. My approach is > > mostly allopathic rather than alternative; and my " world view " will be > > presented from that viewpoint in my posts. > > > > Best, > > > > . > > . > > > > > > > Posted by: " Becky " becky6327@ > > > <mailto:becky6327@?Subject=%20Re%3ANewbie> becky6327 > > > <becky6327> > > > > > > > > > Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:29 am (PDT) > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I was just recently (this week) diagnosed with hypothyroidism. My TSH > > > level was 5.25. My Internist put me on Levothyroxine 50 mcg. She wants > > > me to come back in 2 months for another TSH test; I'm thinking I > > > should probably ask her to test my T3/T4? I am also a vegetarian (for > > > the last 7 mths and most of my protein comes from soy products--oh > > > no!). I am hoping to gain a lot of information from this > > > group--already it seems quite a few people are very knowledgeable- > > > -doctors? There are a few acronyms I am unfamiliar with... > > > > > > Becky > > > ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2010 Report Share Posted September 10, 2010 Sophie, Thank you for the recap. Please don't be shy about posting here. We are all interested in helping when we can. You quoted Tami's original post: > > > I would like to add that some people like myself have HypoT but my > blood tests have never reflected that I suffer from HypoT. The only > way to diagnose my type is through basal temperature and symptoms. It > is very difficult to find someone that will diagnose much less treat > me with thyroid medicine. I wanted to bring this up to hear what was > thought and to add this to ' summary. > Again, labs do not interpret whether readings are " normal " or not. That could bring them legal consequences. Instead, they flag readings that are outside the reference range (high or low), but normalcy, when in or out of the reference range, is a matter of interpretation. For example, the " normalcy " of ferritin levels, another thyroid test she didn't mention, depend on iron levels. If both ferritin and iron are low, it suggests hypoT. Ferritin is a protein with a similar storage role to thyroglobulin, but it is stimulated by the presence of iron, which can become toxic if not held in storage by the ferritin. Our repeated requests for Tami to just post just her latest thyroid readings were to enable the group to evaluate that _interpretation_, whether it was a doctor's or Tami's own. Had she done this, we very likely would have concluded the readings did appear very normal, thus supporting her claims. Or, we might have seen something subtle that her doctors ignored that would have justified the medication she claims to enjoy. For example, above average TSH combined with a lower than average T3 would signal the beginning of Hashimoto's. Low FT3 with relatively high TT3 would indicate a binding (globulin or albumin) excess. These might have suggested other things to investigate. Either way, NO ONE on this list suggested IN ANY WAY that she was not hypoT. We just asked for reasonable details. Instead of responding to our requests, she stonewalled and argued against any possible validity of the tests. She falsely accused other posters of attacking her thermal based diagnosis. But, we really had no way to evaluate that, except for the fact that many of her claims were patently contradictory, such as the claim that she took all the thyroid tests every five weeks. At the very least, this claim suggested that she had no idea just how many thyroid related tests are commonly used or the recommended intervals for using them. It was her defensiveness and later inconsistent assertions that were far from the medical mainstream that made me have doubts about her initial claims. So, I would again respectfully request that Tami simply post her last set of tests with reference ranges, as these vary with labs. If they indeed seem to rule out hypoT, then we will join in sympathizing with her persistent hypoT symptoms. No need for further polemic. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2010 Report Share Posted September 10, 2010 Sophie thank you for your email response. I am new to this group and for the past 2 weeks have been monitoring the discussions and must say I am considering to discontinuing. Unlike my Diabetes group, there is respect, synergy and most of all, support. I hope this group finds its unity and support, because I find these groups can be so powerful and supportive. Bev From: Sophie <sophielobel@...> Subject: Re:Newbie hypothyroidism Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 3:12 AM  Dear Group Eventhough i'm not quite well at the moment and would normally avoid doing anything as daring as this...I feel compelled to bring this up and add my penny's worth, no1 because i think it is personally important for me to be able to voice " my truth " no2 to help clear things up and no3 in an effort to restore some balance to this group because I am a member and it is affecting me, however, i will not quit my membership because of it and will communicate on a private level if I have to because this topic is of utmost relevance in my life. Firstly, i've spoken with Tammy, hi tammy, and you are a beatiful intelligent and dynamic woman infact YOU ALL ARE beautiful, intelligent and dynamic. Everybody's experiences and contributions are valuable here eventhough those experiences and the knowledge gained from such may differ it does not mean that something read will not benefit somebody on some level. I wanted to trace the messages back to the beginning to see what all the fuss was about, it looks like this is the first message tammy wrote and to be honest I don't see the point in reading through all the threads because it is futile, it just looks like you are all arguing about type 2 hypo or subclinical hypo. I know the answer cos i've lived it but there'e no point in arguing about it, is there? Would anyone like to argue with me about it? Do you trust the word of a fellow human sister or brother? I wander if the peoples of this world will ever learn to have unconditional love for one another, and to actually be able to see the beauty that is there in each and every individual because when we do we will realise that actually we are all ONE and the beauty i see in me is the beauty that is in YOU. None of us are perfect, we all make mistakes, sometimes we even call eachother names...I personally think you should all apologise to one the other : ) but that is just my humble opinion. , i believe in holistic healing and quackery as i've heard you call it, does that mean we can't communicate? of course not that is just my opinion, do I think any less of you because you call it quackery or dismiss the things that I personally stand for like Green energy? No because that is your opinion and you are entitled to it and I respect it and keep an open mind when I do decide to start work on my solar powered generator or try to run my motor on water, i'd use apples actually : ), and when i research alternatives your words may remind me to be careful of cons...it's not easy sifting through the lies to find truth, the important thing is i need to find out for myself. Live & let Live, you are a wonderful group and it wouldn't matter to me how much abuse you all wanted to hurl this way...I would still love you all, because in each of you I see an aspect of my own self & I love myself, if i didn't I would never have come to this group in my darkness seeking a light i would've let myself go as originally intended...However, the light and love i found here brought me back to a state of healing, for which i'm truly thankful. We don't have to be right all the time. When we make mistakes we learn from them. People can figure things out for themselves, it's usually the most effective way. For years I was abused, i thought the reason i was abused was because the person was evil...i discovered they weren't evil at all they were just very ill with undiagnosed thyroid inbalance. I forgive you mum x Well I will leave it on that note..it would be nice to see harmony in the group, people discussing their differences in a creative, loving way...and even if that doesn't happen that's ok too, I accept you as you all are warts and all as i do my own self. Thank you for reading and for this opportunity to share my thoughts, which in the grand scheme of things is all in the name of love, peace & awakening on this earth. Wishing you all vibrant health & well being Sophie x > > > > Most people [probably way over 90%] take one simple pill per day and > > live perfectly normal lives. TSH is the allopathic standard for testing > > for hypothyroidism. > > > > Some small percentage of hypo patients do not do will with standard > > treatment. As a matter of fact some of them go through a living h*ll > > trying to get effective treatment. A larger percentage of members of > > groups like this are from the latter group, as those who do well often > > do not follow up in researching sites such as this. So we hear a lot of > > heart-rending stories and try to suggest whatever help we can. The > > tribulations of some will flat make a grown man cry... > > > > Your treatment so far sounds normal. After a month or so on the 50 mcg > > of T4 you will have further blood work and probably will have your > > dosage raised, as 50 mcg is typically not enough if your thyroid has > > completely shut down. This may happen a few times before you get to > > your final dose. > > > > OTOH if you have an autoimmune condition called Hashimoto's it can be > > more complex. Your doctor can check your antibodies to see if you have > > that. In Hashimoto's your body attacks your thyroid gland and almost > > certainly will eventually fully destroy it. There is no cure, no way to > > really even slow it down. In addition it may wax and wan from time to > > time which can cause your thyroxine output to vary. That in turn can > > cause your need for T4 to vary all over the place, and keeping your dose > > in the proper range can be very difficult. > > > > We have/had one member [] who is a doctor or nurse practitioner > > IIRC but she hasn't posted in a while. AFAIK there are no other doctors > > here. Chuck is a scientist and he as well as other members of his > > family have hypothyroidism. He is the " go to " person for accurate > > information WRT science and the chemistry of hypo treatment. > > > > Roni has a wealth of experience in the difficult treatment scenario, > > unfortunately most of it personal. She knows a lot more about test > > results and RT3 than probably anyone except Chuck, at least among the > > regular posters. > > > > I have no credentials whatsoever, although I have a decent background > > knowledge in science; at least on the lay level. I'm also fairly > > experienced in evaluating quack claims and other bs. My approach is > > mostly allopathic rather than alternative; and my " world view " will be > > presented from that viewpoint in my posts. > > > > Best, > > > > . > > . > > > > > > > Posted by: " Becky " becky6327@ > > > <mailto:becky6327@?Subject=%20Re%3ANewbie> becky6327 > > > <becky6327> > > > > > > > > > Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:29 am (PDT) > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I was just recently (this week) diagnosed with hypothyroidism. My TSH > > > level was 5.25. My Internist put me on Levothyroxine 50 mcg. She wants > > > me to come back in 2 months for another TSH test; I'm thinking I > > > should probably ask her to test my T3/T4? I am also a vegetarian (for > > > the last 7 mths and most of my protein comes from soy products--oh > > > no!). I am hoping to gain a lot of information from this > > > group--already it seems quite a few people are very knowledgeable- > > > -doctors? There are a few acronyms I am unfamiliar with... > > > > > > Becky > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2010 Report Share Posted September 11, 2010 Bev and Sophie, Thank you for writing; your sentiments echo my own. My wish was for this forum to be one of positive open discussion for everyone. Tami > > > > > > > > Most people [probably way over 90%] take one simple pill per day and > > > > live perfectly normal lives. TSH is the allopathic standard for testing > > > > for hypothyroidism. > > > > > > > > Some small percentage of hypo patients do not do will with standard > > > > treatment. As a matter of fact some of them go through a living h*ll > > > > trying to get effective treatment. A larger percentage of members of > > > > groups like this are from the latter group, as those who do well often > > > > do not follow up in researching sites such as this. So we hear a lot of > > > > heart-rending stories and try to suggest whatever help we can. The > > > > tribulations of some will flat make a grown man cry... > > > > > > > > Your treatment so far sounds normal. After a month or so on the 50 mcg > > > > of T4 you will have further blood work and probably will have your > > > > dosage raised, as 50 mcg is typically not enough if your thyroid has > > > > completely shut down. This may happen a few times before you get to > > > > your final dose. > > > > > > > > OTOH if you have an autoimmune condition called Hashimoto's it can be > > > > more complex. Your doctor can check your antibodies to see if you have > > > > that. In Hashimoto's your body attacks your thyroid gland and almost > > > > certainly will eventually fully destroy it. There is no cure, no way to > > > > really even slow it down. In addition it may wax and wan from time to > > > > time which can cause your thyroxine output to vary. That in turn can > > > > cause your need for T4 to vary all over the place, and keeping your dose > > > > in the proper range can be very difficult. > > > > > > > > We have/had one member [] who is a doctor or nurse practitioner > > > > IIRC but she hasn't posted in a while. AFAIK there are no other doctors > > > > here. Chuck is a scientist and he as well as other members of his > > > > family have hypothyroidism. He is the " go to " person for accurate > > > > information WRT science and the chemistry of hypo treatment. > > > > > > > > Roni has a wealth of experience in the difficult treatment scenario, > > > > unfortunately most of it personal. She knows a lot more about test > > > > results and RT3 than probably anyone except Chuck, at least among the > > > > regular posters. > > > > > > > > I have no credentials whatsoever, although I have a decent background > > > > knowledge in science; at least on the lay level. I'm also fairly > > > > experienced in evaluating quack claims and other bs. My approach is > > > > mostly allopathic rather than alternative; and my " world view " will be > > > > presented from that viewpoint in my posts. > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > . > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > Posted by: " Becky " becky6327@ > > > > > <mailto:becky6327@?Subject=%20Re%3ANewbie> becky6327 > > > > > <becky6327> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:29 am (PDT) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > I was just recently (this week) diagnosed with hypothyroidism. My TSH > > > > > level was 5.25. My Internist put me on Levothyroxine 50 mcg. She wants > > > > > me to come back in 2 months for another TSH test; I'm thinking I > > > > > should probably ask her to test my T3/T4? I am also a vegetarian (for > > > > > the last 7 mths and most of my protein comes from soy products--oh > > > > > no!). I am hoping to gain a lot of information from this > > > > > group--already it seems quite a few people are very knowledgeable- > > > > > -doctors? There are a few acronyms I am unfamiliar with... > > > > > > > > > > Becky > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2010 Report Share Posted September 11, 2010 Hi, Sophie. I'm glad you feel " daring " enough to do this; I think it's important. I do seem to have given you some impressions about my opinions that are inaccurate so I hope you will allow me to correct that. .. .. 1] > , i believe in holistic healing and quackery as i've heard you > call it, does that mean we can't communicate? of course not that is > just my opinion, .. .. I have never expressed any opinion against holistic healing and I do not hold any opinion against it. Holistic healing to me means healing the whole person and I don't see how anyone could find it objectionable. I do see that in many cases it is very difficult. Whether allopathic or alternative methods are used as long as they are effective I would not condemn their use. OTOH I do object to quackery, and by that I mean things that cannot be shown to be effective, and which in many cases the method by which they are supposed to work contradict well established physical principles. My goal is to provide accurate information that will allow patients to make informed decisions and avoid wasted effort and the harm that often comes from quack practices. .. .. 2] > dismiss the things that I personally stand for like Green energy .. .. I'm 100% in favor of green energy. I think we should be producing more plant base fuels than Brazil is to run our cars and other machines. .. .. 3] > keep an open mind when I do decide to start work on my solar powered > generator or try to run my motor on water, i'd use apples actually : ) .. .. Apples will work because they have energy that you can extract and use. Water won't work because the energy needed to break the hydrogen-oxygen bond is the same as the energy released when you burn it in your car. When you add in the inevitable losses you will always get less energy out than you put in when trying to run your car on water. Solar power will work but it's horribly expensive and inconvenient. If you add in the environmental costs of producing the cells it doesn't look nearly as green to me; YMMV. .. .. 4] > and when i research alternatives your words may remind me to be > careful of cons...it's not easy sifting through the lies to find > truth, the important thing is i need to find out for myself. .. .. If you cannot automatically eliminate every claim that promises to give you something for nothing [energy wise] then it will be a very inefficient process. We don't live long enough to personally investigate every quack claim out there if we have to consider those that violate the second law of thermodynamics. Thanks for your contribution and best wishes for continued health. Regards, .. .. > Posted by: " Sophie " sophielobel@... > <mailto:sophielobel@...?Subject=%20Re%3ANewbie> > sophielobel <sophielobel> > > > Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:12 am (PDT) > > > > Dear Group > > Eventhough i'm not quite well at the moment and would normally avoid > doing anything as daring as this...I feel compelled to bring this up > and add my penny's worth, no1 because i think it is personally > important for me to be able to voice " my truth " no2 to help clear > things up and no3 in an effort to restore some balance to this group > because I am a member and it is affecting me, however, i will not quit > my membership because of it and will communicate on a private level if > I have to because this topic is of utmost relevance in my life. > > Firstly, i've spoken with Tammy, hi tammy, and you are a beatiful > intelligent and dynamic woman infact YOU ALL ARE beautiful, > intelligent and dynamic. Everybody's experiences and contributions are > valuable here eventhough those experiences and the knowledge gained > from such may differ it does not mean that something read will not > benefit somebody on some level. > > I wanted to trace the messages back to the beginning to see what all > the fuss was about, it looks like this is the first message tammy > wrote and to be honest I don't see the point in reading through all > the threads because it is futile, it just looks like you are all > arguing about type 2 hypo or subclinical hypo. I know the answer cos > i've lived it but there'e no point in arguing about it, is there? > Would anyone like to argue with me about it? Do you trust the word of > a fellow human sister or brother? > > I wander if the peoples of this world will ever learn to have > unconditional love for one another, and to actually be able to see the > beauty that is there in each and every individual because when we do > we will realise that actually we are all ONE and the beauty i see in > me is the beauty that is in YOU. > > None of us are perfect, we all make mistakes, sometimes we even call > eachother names...I personally think you should all apologise to one > the other : ) but that is just my humble opinion. > > , i believe in holistic healing and quackery as i've heard you > call it, does that mean we can't communicate? of course not that is > just my opinion, do I think any less of you because you call it > quackery or dismiss the things that I personally stand for like Green > energy? No because that is your opinion and you are entitled to it and > I respect it and keep an open mind when I do decide to start work on > my solar powered generator or try to run my motor on water, i'd use > apples actually : ), and when i research alternatives your words may > remind me to be careful of cons...it's not easy sifting through the > lies to find truth, the important thing is i need to find out for myself. > > Live & let Live, you are a wonderful group and it wouldn't matter to > me how much abuse you all wanted to hurl this way...I would still love > you all, because in each of you I see an aspect of my own self & I > love myself, if i didn't I would never have come to this group in my > darkness seeking a light i would've let myself go as originally > intended...However, the light and love i found here brought me back to > a state of healing, for which i'm truly thankful. > > We don't have to be right all the time. When we make mistakes we learn > from them. People can figure things out for themselves, it's usually > the most effective way. For years I was abused, i thought the reason i > was abused was because the person was evil...i discovered they weren't > evil at all they were just very ill with undiagnosed thyroid > inbalance. I forgive you mum x > > Well I will leave it on that note..it would be nice to see harmony in > the group, people discussing their differences in a creative, loving > way...and even if that doesn't happen that's ok too, I accept you as > you all are warts and all as i do my own self. Thank you for reading > and for this opportunity to share my thoughts, which in the grand > scheme of things is all in the name of love, peace & awakening on this > earth. > > Wishing you all vibrant health & well being > > Sophie x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2010 Report Share Posted September 12, 2010 Hi Thank you for your response and reassurance and clearing that up and I do apologise for mis-understanding you : ) so apples will work eh...just have to make sure i don't eat them all : ) Warm Love & best wishes sophie x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2010 Report Share Posted September 12, 2010 Dear Roni Thank you for your response. In spite of it all you have been a great lady to me and i wish you all the very best and hold you in my heart when i pray to the silences of my soul. I have kept everybody's responses to my initial plea and when i feel like i'm sliping again i read them all. Thank you for this great group. Warm Love & respect to you Roni sophie x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2010 Report Share Posted September 12, 2010 Thank you for your kind words and my very best to you. <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge! Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: Sophie Lobel <sophielobel@...> Subject: Re: newbie hypothyroidism Date: Sunday, September 12, 2010, 8:02 AM Dear Roni Thank you for your response. In spite of it all you have been a great lady to me and i wish you all the very best and hold you in my heart when i pray to the silences of my soul. I have kept everybody's responses to my initial plea and when i feel like i'm sliping again i read them all. Thank you for this great group. Warm Love & respect to you Roni sophie x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 Hi all, I'm blessed with HIV and HCV, and have been reading about and just introduced to LDN. I'm 66, was just diagnosed in December, started ARV's a month ago. And I live in the Philippines. I would like to hear from others who have experienced positive results who are also co-infected, and any suggestions for ordering on this side of the world. Shipping from USA is expensive! Thanks, Rod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 Rod, I would think that Naltrexone is available locally for you there in the philipines. Go to your local pharmacy. david in lubbock tx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 Treating HIV/AIDS With Low Dose Naltrexone http://www.webspawner.com/users/ldnforhiv/index.html Group for those with HIV/AIDS using LDN LDN_HIVAIDS/ > > Hi all, > I'm blessed with HIV and HCV, and have been reading about and just introduced to LDN. I'm 66, was just diagnosed in December, started ARV's a month ago. And I live in the Philippines. > > I would like to hear from others who have experienced positive results who are also co-infected, and any suggestions for ordering on this side of the world. Shipping from USA is expensive! > > Thanks, > Rod > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 Hi, I also have hep c (but not hiv) and I have been using ldn for two years now - it helped return my liver function tests to normal and reduced my viral load from over a million to around 15,000. Aside from the ldn/hiv group that was already mentioned, there is also a Hepatitis group where many members are also using ldn: Hepatitis_Children_and_CAM_Alternatives/ Good luck to you1 Nola http://nolahepper.blogspot.com/ [low dose naltrexone] Newbie Hi all, I'm blessed with HIV and HCV, and have been reading about and just introduced to LDN. I'm 66, was just diagnosed in December, started ARV's a month ago. And I live in the Philippines. I would like to hear from others who have experienced positive results who are also co-infected, and any suggestions for ordering on this side of the world. Shipping from USA is expensive! Thanks, Rod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 sticking to HSV2 topic, see our menu/photos, and take your next 10 minutes and build that. It will cost you about 6-12 bucks. Then, read our menu/files section for inspiration. I bet you win. bG > > So this is my day off. I have a bit of time to research this. > I originally heard about bone stimulating devices and went to ebay, bid on a mini version and unfortunately won. Its a Biotech BHS Mini Bone Growth Stimulator. > > Can I use this for Beck-like health promotion? Or should I put it back on ebay to sell? > > I HSV2 and would love to stop it. > > Thanks, > > Amber > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 sticking to HSV2 topic, see our menu/photos, and take your next 10 minutes and build that. It will cost you about 6-12 bucks. Then, read our menu/files section for inspiration. I bet you win. bG > > So this is my day off. I have a bit of time to research this. > I originally heard about bone stimulating devices and went to ebay, bid on a mini version and unfortunately won. Its a Biotech BHS Mini Bone Growth Stimulator. > > Can I use this for Beck-like health promotion? Or should I put it back on ebay to sell? > > I HSV2 and would love to stop it. > > Thanks, > > Amber > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 Ok. I'll find it. Can it/should it only be used during outbreaks? I don't get them very often. Can the electricity kill the virus even when no outbreak is present?Amber :)Sent from my iPhoneOn May 3, 2011, at 2:40 PM, baby_grand <no_reply > wrote: ...the one to build says "herpes and blood..." use the tip of electrode on small outbreaks if skin is intact, if skin broken, the use one on each side, and use the second electrode on spine where nerve from that area inserts (look that up) > > > > So this is my day off. I have a bit of time to research this. > > I originally heard about bone stimulating devices and went to ebay, bid on a mini version and unfortunately won. Its a Biotech BHS Mini Bone Growth Stimulator. > > > > Can I use this for Beck-like health promotion? Or should I put it back on ebay to sell? > > > > I HSV2 and would love to stop it. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Amber > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 Ok. I'll find it. Can it/should it only be used during outbreaks? I don't get them very often. Can the electricity kill the virus even when no outbreak is present?Amber :)Sent from my iPhoneOn May 3, 2011, at 2:40 PM, baby_grand <no_reply > wrote: ...the one to build says "herpes and blood..." use the tip of electrode on small outbreaks if skin is intact, if skin broken, the use one on each side, and use the second electrode on spine where nerve from that area inserts (look that up) > > > > So this is my day off. I have a bit of time to research this. > > I originally heard about bone stimulating devices and went to ebay, bid on a mini version and unfortunately won. Its a Biotech BHS Mini Bone Growth Stimulator. > > > > Can I use this for Beck-like health promotion? Or should I put it back on ebay to sell? > > > > I HSV2 and would love to stop it. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Amber > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Thank you both!!Amber :)MadeByAmber.comSent from my iPhoneOn May 4, 2011, at 1:39 PM, baby_grand <no_reply > wrote: take a look at anatomy map of nervous system so you are sure where they go. you don't want to dilute the charge over too wide an area. bG > > > > > > > > > > > > So this is my day off. I have a bit of time to research this. > > > > > > I originally heard about bone stimulating devices and went to ebay, bid on a mini version and unfortunately won. Its a Biotech BHS Mini Bone Growth Stimulator. > > > > > > > > > > > > Can I use this for Beck-like health promotion? Or should I put it back on ebay to sell? > > > > > > > > > > > > I HSV2 and would love to stop it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Thank you both!!Amber :)MadeByAmber.comSent from my iPhoneOn May 4, 2011, at 1:39 PM, baby_grand <no_reply > wrote: take a look at anatomy map of nervous system so you are sure where they go. you don't want to dilute the charge over too wide an area. bG > > > > > > > > > > > > So this is my day off. I have a bit of time to research this. > > > > > > I originally heard about bone stimulating devices and went to ebay, bid on a mini version and unfortunately won. Its a Biotech BHS Mini Bone Growth Stimulator. > > > > > > > > > > > > Can I use this for Beck-like health promotion? Or should I put it back on ebay to sell? > > > > > > > > > > > > I HSV2 and would love to stop it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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