Guest guest Posted November 6, 2001 Report Share Posted November 6, 2001 the only thing we can really do is refer them to her book and tape, Ann is so busy, this is life and death stuff and I personally would not be alive today if i did not find someone brave enough to speak out and tell me not to take anymore drugs if charly would have heald out on me i would be dead, I agree that we must be careful and maybe add at the bottom of our emails that we are not doctors we only lived it!!!! i think i even put that somewhere on the PA home page,(i better check) I have no fear of being sued and the fact that we dont claim to be Dr's I dont think its a problem, but sandi i had the same fear as you when i started my group. the smart thing is to say we are not dr's and dont claim to be. we lived it! hugs cynthia --- Sandi Payne <bluzylou@...> wrote: > Hi everyone, > I hope this is not takin the wrong way but I don't > think it's up to > us to give medical advise to people pleading for > help!I think when we > get a person asking us to help them we should find a > Dr. such as Dr. > to refer them to.Not take it upon or selfs to > tell them how to > and win to get off the drugs.This is life and death > stuff and I > personally don't want to be responcable for telling > someone to do the > wrong thing.I know we are more educated about these > drugs then most > Drs. but there are real Drs. that know all about > this and I suggest > we look into finding one that won't mind us sending > them people who > are pleading for help.I know everyone is trying to > be of help but > lets do this right ok.We need to save lives not > endanger them. > I wrote to Dr. this morning asking her if we > get someone > posting to us that is in need of help with there > meds if we could > give her e-mail out,I'll let you know her responce. > Sandi > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2001 Report Share Posted November 6, 2001 the only thing we can really do is refer them to her book and tape, Ann is so busy, this is life and death stuff and I personally would not be alive today if i did not find someone brave enough to speak out and tell me not to take anymore drugs if charly would have heald out on me i would be dead, I agree that we must be careful and maybe add at the bottom of our emails that we are not doctors we only lived it!!!! i think i even put that somewhere on the PA home page,(i better check) I have no fear of being sued and the fact that we dont claim to be Dr's I dont think its a problem, but sandi i had the same fear as you when i started my group. the smart thing is to say we are not dr's and dont claim to be. we lived it! hugs cynthia --- Sandi Payne <bluzylou@...> wrote: > Hi everyone, > I hope this is not takin the wrong way but I don't > think it's up to > us to give medical advise to people pleading for > help!I think when we > get a person asking us to help them we should find a > Dr. such as Dr. > to refer them to.Not take it upon or selfs to > tell them how to > and win to get off the drugs.This is life and death > stuff and I > personally don't want to be responcable for telling > someone to do the > wrong thing.I know we are more educated about these > drugs then most > Drs. but there are real Drs. that know all about > this and I suggest > we look into finding one that won't mind us sending > them people who > are pleading for help.I know everyone is trying to > be of help but > lets do this right ok.We need to save lives not > endanger them. > I wrote to Dr. this morning asking her if we > get someone > posting to us that is in need of help with there > meds if we could > give her e-mail out,I'll let you know her responce. > Sandi > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2001 Report Share Posted November 6, 2001 Dear Sandi, You are right. Sharing experiences is good moral support, but medical advice is serious and should be given with caution. Suzy medical advice Hi everyone,I hope this is not takin the wrong way but I don't think it's up to us to give medical advise to people pleading for help!I think when we get a person asking us to help them we should find a Dr. such as Dr. to refer them to.Not take it upon or selfs to tell them how to and win to get off the drugs.This is life and death stuff and I personally don't want to be responcable for telling someone to do the wrong thing.I know we are more educated about these drugs then most Drs. but there are real Drs. that know all about this and I suggest we look into finding one that won't mind us sending them people who are pleading for help.I know everyone is trying to be of help but lets do this right ok.We need to save lives not endanger them.I wrote to Dr. this morning asking her if we get someone posting to us that is in need of help with there meds if we could give her e-mail out,I'll let you know her responce. Sandi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2001 Report Share Posted November 6, 2001 Dear Sandi, You are right. Sharing experiences is good moral support, but medical advice is serious and should be given with caution. Suzy medical advice Hi everyone,I hope this is not takin the wrong way but I don't think it's up to us to give medical advise to people pleading for help!I think when we get a person asking us to help them we should find a Dr. such as Dr. to refer them to.Not take it upon or selfs to tell them how to and win to get off the drugs.This is life and death stuff and I personally don't want to be responcable for telling someone to do the wrong thing.I know we are more educated about these drugs then most Drs. but there are real Drs. that know all about this and I suggest we look into finding one that won't mind us sending them people who are pleading for help.I know everyone is trying to be of help but lets do this right ok.We need to save lives not endanger them.I wrote to Dr. this morning asking her if we get someone posting to us that is in need of help with there meds if we could give her e-mail out,I'll let you know her responce. Sandi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2001 Report Share Posted November 6, 2001 Dear Sandi, You are right. Sharing experiences is good moral support, but medical advice is serious and should be given with caution. Suzy medical advice Hi everyone,I hope this is not takin the wrong way but I don't think it's up to us to give medical advise to people pleading for help!I think when we get a person asking us to help them we should find a Dr. such as Dr. to refer them to.Not take it upon or selfs to tell them how to and win to get off the drugs.This is life and death stuff and I personally don't want to be responcable for telling someone to do the wrong thing.I know we are more educated about these drugs then most Drs. but there are real Drs. that know all about this and I suggest we look into finding one that won't mind us sending them people who are pleading for help.I know everyone is trying to be of help but lets do this right ok.We need to save lives not endanger them.I wrote to Dr. this morning asking her if we get someone posting to us that is in need of help with there meds if we could give her e-mail out,I'll let you know her responce. Sandi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2001 Report Share Posted November 6, 2001 Dear Sandi, You are right. Sharing experiences is good moral support, but medical advice is serious and should be given with caution. Suzy medical advice Hi everyone,I hope this is not takin the wrong way but I don't think it's up to us to give medical advise to people pleading for help!I think when we get a person asking us to help them we should find a Dr. such as Dr. to refer them to.Not take it upon or selfs to tell them how to and win to get off the drugs.This is life and death stuff and I personally don't want to be responcable for telling someone to do the wrong thing.I know we are more educated about these drugs then most Drs. but there are real Drs. that know all about this and I suggest we look into finding one that won't mind us sending them people who are pleading for help.I know everyone is trying to be of help but lets do this right ok.We need to save lives not endanger them.I wrote to Dr. this morning asking her if we get someone posting to us that is in need of help with there meds if we could give her e-mail out,I'll let you know her responce. Sandi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2001 Report Share Posted November 7, 2001 Suzy, Sandi & all others - Point well taken. Jim has created a 'medical advice disclaimer' to caution members of the fact that none of the advice given or shared constitutes a valid medical directive. Caution should always be used in either offering or accepting advice. This disclaimer will also be posted to the SSRI medications group site. The Avenging Angel Suzy Nakauchi wrote: Dear Sandi, You are right. Sharing experiences is good moral support, but medical advice is serious and should be given with caution. Suzy medical advice Hi everyone, I hope this is not takin the wrong way but I don't think it's up to us to give medical advise to people pleading for help!I think when we get a person asking us to help them we should find a Dr. such as Dr. to refer them to.Not take it upon or selfs to tell them how to and win to get off the drugs.This is life and death stuff and I personally don't want to be responcable for telling someone to do the wrong thing.I know we are more educated about these drugs then most Drs. but there are real Drs. that know all about this and I suggest we look into finding one that won't mind us sending them people who are pleading for help.I know everyone is trying to be of help but lets do this right ok.We need to save lives not endanger them. I wrote to Dr. this morning asking her if we get someone posting to us that is in need of help with there meds if we could give her e-mail out,I'll let you know her responce. Sandi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 Those are very good questions, and I agree- we should not take our doctor's advice for granted. My wife is an RN too and she says if it doesn't sound quite right, ask for a second opinion. I just changed doctors (regular, not hep specialist) because I felt my old doctor didn't really listen to me. Yes, I was fortunate. In my professional position, I was invited to a statewide Hep C conference right after I tested positive. I agree with you that many of us know more about HCV than many doctors- the head of Hepatitis Foundation International made a point that even 25 years ago, very little was being taught in medical school about the liver! It is amazing how much this organ does, and many doctors no very little except that if you turn yellow there's something wrong with the liver! Turns out the doctor I had already made an appointment with (on the advice of a Hep C advocate) was one of the key speakers. I'm glad my post was not seen as a flame- it wasn't intended to be. But I have seen many people hurt by listening to bad advice. I'm a chemical dependency counselor, and it drives me crazy when a client listens to some stranger at a meeting who tells them they should stop taking anti-depressants.... or insulin! I've been doing much research, and one thing is clear; nothing is clear. People react in many various ways to the virus (some even develop natural immunity) and in many different ways to the treatments. One size does NOT fit all! Thanks for letting me vent. Medical advice ....I am a Rn and yes there is medical advice that is not quite up to par from the list. You must admit...there is much support here and we are all looking for answers that sometimes the doctors are not familiar with. I think the best any of us can do is not go on blind faith but do our own research and ask questions of our doctors until we have the answers. I've not had good luck with finding a doctor that even knows as much as I do about the hep c. I'm not saying that in a bragging way. It's very sad but true. My previous gastroenterologist has referred me to the research hospital in St Louis. My appt is in April. He believes I had an allergic reaction to treatment. I can find very little information on the internet regarding allergic reactions to the medications. I hope your doctor is very well informed about hep c and the treatment. One of the best questions to ask of him would be....How many other hep c patients have you cared for in the past? My gastro doctor wasn't even aware of any treatment beyond the old 3 shots a week method and when I told him about the newer medication, he couldn't believe there was such a waiting list. This was last spring. When I ended up in the hospital after 3 weeks of treatment, he called in a whole group of doctors to confer with. I can give him credit for that. So lighten up and do like all the rest of us, do your own research.....and share what you find....judy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 ....sounds like you pretty much have it all together.....I hope the very best for you....and if you ever run across any info regarding allergic reactions to the treatment, remember me......judy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 I sure will! What sort of symptoms did you have, may I ask? Do you have access to a gastro-enterologist or Hepatitis specialist? RE: Medical advice ....sounds like you pretty much have it all together.....I hope the very best for you....and if you ever run across any info regarding allergic reactions to the treatment, remember me......judy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 Another question... do they know if it was the interferon (which one was it) or the ribavirin that you reacted to? (My wife, the nurse was looking over my shoulder) RE: Medical advice ....sounds like you pretty much have it all together.....I hope the very best for you....and if you ever run across any info regarding allergic reactions to the treatment, remember me......judy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2003 Report Share Posted January 31, 2003 No...they don't know and never did any sort of tests.....just referred me to the research hospital. When I asked about reducing the dose of medication, he said absolutely not. He said I had a life threatening episode and could never take those medications again. I am supposed to be going to the research center for a transplant work up. I questioned the doctor if I need a transplant and he said, not now, but you will have all the baseline tests done if an emergency arises. The gastro doctor acts like he doesn't believe in the patient knowing very much. Looking back, I think it's because he doesn't know very much himself! I'm wondering if there are allergy tests that can be done. There are allergy tests for other things. To begin with, my platelet count was 140,000. Between week 2 and 3, platelets dropped to 18,000 and I went into acute renal failure and questionable bone marrow problems. This was the last of Sept and I've not completely recovered from that experience. I don't remember all that did happen. I remember the doctor calling me and saying to go to the hospital immediately for admission. My first reaction was, what for? I was having side effects but none worse than others have talked about. This decision was based on the lab work that was done the day before. I was also running a temp of 103. I can't remember all that happened. I was hurting all over. Symptoms progressed so fast. By the time I arrived at the hospital, I was a nut case and they had to take me out of the car. I couldn't stand on my own feet. My brain was messed up and I was having what I think were hallucinations. I felt like I had walked into a horror movie and everyone around me was so ugly...plain scary. No one else seemed to be aware of my mental situation and I was too scared to say anything about it. All this came on so fast. I remember I couldn't lay down, I was in such pain, all I could do was sit on the gurney, lean against the wall and cry like a baby. I don't want to go through that again but I don't want to give up either. I will study any advice you or your wife might have and appreciate any info....thanks....judy RE: Medical advice ....sounds like you pretty much have it all together.....I hope the very best for you....and if you ever run across any info regarding allergic reactions to the treatment, remember me......judy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2003 Report Share Posted January 31, 2003 I had a gastroenterologist and he is the one that acted so stupid and referred me to the research hospital in St Louis. He said there was nothing more he could do for me and sent my file up there....so now I'm actually without a gastro doctor until I see them in April. My PCP is aware of this but she doesn't know anything about hepatitis. She asked me if I wanted to do something different and at the time, brain-wise, I couldn't deal with it and doing more research on my own. I'm trying to come to some sort of decision as what to do now, other than wait till April.... I went through months of searching for another gastro doctor and visiting other doctors to only be told they are not experienced with chronic hep c......judy RE: Medical advice ....sounds like you pretty much have it all together.....I hope the very best for you....and if you ever run across any info regarding allergic reactions to the treatment, remember me......judy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2003 Report Share Posted January 31, 2003 I don't like to give advice, but I'll do some reearch and point you towards what I find. Don't give up. St. Louis isn't that far from Des Moines IA.... Perhaps it would be worth a road to trip talk to a doctor who is an expert on Hep c... > I don't > want to go through that again but I don't want to give up either. & nbsp; > I will study any advice you or your wife might have and appreciate any > info....thanks....judy & nbsp; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2003 Report Share Posted January 31, 2003 Sometimes I forget how lucky I am. Hang in there. > I had a gastroenterologist and he is the one that acted so stupid and > referred me to the research hospital in St Louis. He said there was > nothing more he could do for me and sent my file up there....so now I'm > actually without a gastro doctor until I see them in April. My PCP is > aware of this but she doesn't know anything about hepatitis. She asked > me if I wanted to do something different and at the time, brain-wise, I > couldn't deal with it and doing more research on my own. I'm trying to > come to some sort of decision as what to do now, other than wait till > April.... > I went through months of searching for another gastro doctor and > visiting other doctors to only be told they are not experienced with > chronic hep c......judy > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2003 Report Share Posted January 31, 2003 I am in Missouri, about 250 miles from St Louis....and will keep the appt....judy RE: Medical advice I don't like to give advice, but I'll do some reearch and point you towards what I find. Don't give up. St. Louis isn't that far from Des Moines IA.... Perhaps it would be worth a road to trip talk to a doctor who is an expert on Hep c... > I don't > want to go through that again but I don't want to give up either. & nbsp; > I will study any advice you or your wife might have and appreciate any > info....thanks....judy & nbsp; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2004 Report Share Posted March 17, 2004 ....in this litigacious world, private people can sue anyone for damages.. > I notice the warning about `medical advice' and I question whether > there is such a law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 The FTC is trying to close down Dr 's web site. This is the notice that is showing on her site right now. Dear Customer, The Federal Trade Commission is trying to shut down our web site. Until the next hearing on October 30 we have reached a temporary agreement with the Commission to remove all information from this web site. We cannot display any product related information here. Thank you for understanding. I really hope that Dr wins her court case for the sake of all alternative treatments like hers that actually work. Miles. medical advice I notice the warning about `medical advice' and I question whether there is such a law. The only such federal laws that I know of are concerned with the inter-state shipment of medical devices, and medical materials like prescription drugs. These laws are administered by the FDA and one has to commit some physical act to violate them. What federal agency enforces laws about `medical advice'? Can anyone on this list cite the law in words or by its number? People have been giving and receiving medical advice from their friends, relatives and neighbors for thousands of years and surely it would be a violation of the U.S. Constitution to prohibit this free speech. Medical practice, which is much more than advice, is primarily controlled by state governments who define `medical practice' in various ways. Last year California followed the example of Minnesota and narrowed the m.d.s' monopoly considerably by restricting it to those areas in which m.d.s' have training such as prescription drugs, surgery and x-ray. Currently in California, as long as you don't misrepresent your qualifications you are not prohibited from giving or charging a fee for advice on nutrition, vitamins, herbs, nor selling such products, nor administering Acupressure, aroma therapy, bioenergetics, Bowen therapy, massage, psychic healing, Zoroastrian Aura Cleansing, (I just invented that one) or most any other procedure that doesn't penetrate the skin nor violate other laws on assault, mayhem, drugs, vice and so on. California licenses other healing professions such as chiropractic, acupuncture, psychology, each with its own qualifications, definitions, and rules. Where medical advice becomes subject to federal prosecution is where it names an unlicensed medical device that is shipped across state lines. The law says any such written material can be considered `labeling' for the device. A lawyer I consulted many years ago warned me that the FDA has very broad powers to define `medical device' and does not need a complaint to initiate prosecution. The courts don't care if the device works or doesn't work, is helpful or harmful. The FDA need only establish a. that it is a medical device b. that it is unlicensed c. has been sold interstate. He told me that like any prosecutors the FDA would put the worst possible construction on my activities and motives, could seize devices and records and would certainly ignore any mitigating circumstances. Only in court, with attorney fees of a thousand dollars a day (this was some years ago) would my defenses be heard. He said that defenses such as " donations " and " research partnerships " and " religious practices " seldom work and will likely lose even if you can afford to go on to the appellate court. The only person he knew of who won a medical device case against the FDA was L Ron Hubbard. who re-organized Dianetics as a religion- Scientology-and established that the e-meter was used as an aid to religious counseling. Anyone with $100,000 who wants to try that with a magpulser, godzilla, etc? After paying for an hour of the lawyer's time, money well spent, I decided not to pursue the mfr'g of electro-sleep machines. Dr Bare who originated the Rife-Bare device has wisely stayed away from manufacture. He supplies a comprehensive manual with which you can build your own. He has elected to sell the manual for what is probably less than the printing cost and this has resulted in a world-wide interest in Rife devices. Because he doesn't sell the device the manual is not `labeling' it's just information – free speech. It is not the threat of some unspecified law that keeps me from giving medical, legal or financial advice but a sense of responsibility and a knowledge of my own limitations. I am not qualified by education, licensing or experience to advise anyone on these consequential matters. I will happily share what limited experiences I have had as honestly as I can and try not to imply what others should do or expect. None of the above is up-to-date legal knowledge. Perhaps there is a federal law proscribing medical advice. Does anyone know? Cheers, JonB The information on this group is not intended as medical advice. Most group members are NOT doctors or health authorities. Please do not request medical advice, lest anyone get into trouble out of human compassion. There are huge fines and issues currently involved with unlicensed medical advice. The group is only here to share experiences according to the theme of the group, namely testing if electrical stimulus might inactivate microbes, as it seems to have done in the Einstein Medical College labs. We are interested in your results, but cannot say anything about repeatability, or whether this might have medical benefits. Thanks, for your understanding, good luck researching. --bG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 Practicing medicine without a license is a state offense only. Medical things are regulated by state law, not federal law. The only time the feds get involved in medical things involves drugs, e.g., when doctors prescribe marijuana, or as stated, when item cross state lines. The FDA has very broad powers, and there was a time somewhat recently where health stores, etc., were very concerned that vitamins may become regulated by the FDA to protect "public safety" (e.g., the recent prohibition of ephedra by the FDA). And the FDA does regulate vitamins to a certain degree, including labeling, which cannot contain claims of healing, etc. Here's Michigan's statute about practicing medicine without a license: MCL 333.16294 Crimes - Unauthorized Practice of Medicine - Practice of Medicine - Definition For the purpose of the offense of practicing medicine without a license, the "practice of medicine" means the diagnosis, treatment, prevention, cure, or relieving of a human disease, ailment, defect, complaint, or other physical or mental condition, by attendance, advice, device, diagnostictest, or other means, or offering, undertaking, attempting to do, or holding oneself out as able to do, any of these acts. As you can see, "advice" is prohibited. California does have a more open system (here's the cite to a page that explains it, for those who are interested: http://www.californiahealthfreedom.org/californiah/htdocs/documents/providers.asp). It's probably one of the only states (if not the only) that has such an open system, though. Kris -----Original Message-----From: Beggs [mailto:JonBeggs@...]Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 5:36 PM Subject: medical adviceI notice the warning about `medical advice' and I question whether there is such a law. The only such federal laws that I know of are concerned with the inter-state shipment of medical devices, and medical materials like prescription drugs. These laws are administered by the FDA and one has to commit some physical act to violate them. What federal agency enforces laws about `medical advice'? Can anyone on this list cite the law in words or by its number? People have been giving and receiving medical advice from their friends, relatives and neighbors for thousands of years and surely it would be a violation of the U.S. Constitution to prohibit this free speech.Medical practice, which is much more than advice, is primarily controlled by state governments who define `medical practice' in various ways. Last year California followed the example of Minnesota and narrowed the m.d.s' monopoly considerably by restricting it to those areas in which m.d.s' have training such as prescription drugs, surgery and x-ray. Currently in California, as long as you don't misrepresent your qualifications you are not prohibited from giving or charging a fee for advice on nutrition, vitamins, herbs, nor selling such products, nor administering Acupressure, aroma therapy, bioenergetics, Bowen therapy, massage, psychic healing, Zoroastrian Aura Cleansing, (I just invented that one) or most any other procedure that doesn't penetrate the skin nor violate other laws on assault, mayhem, drugs, vice and so on. California licenses other healing professions such as chiropractic, acupuncture, psychology, each with its own qualifications, definitions, and rules.Where medical advice becomes subject to federal prosecution is where it names an unlicensed medical device that is shipped across state lines. The law says any such written material can be considered `labeling' for the device. A lawyer I consulted many years ago warned me that the FDA has very broad powers to define `medical device' and does not need a complaint to initiate prosecution. The courts don't care if the device works or doesn't work, is helpful or harmful. The FDA need only establish a. that it is a medical device b. that it is unlicensed c. has been sold interstate. He told me that like any prosecutors the FDA would put the worst possible construction on my activities and motives, could seize devices and records and would certainly ignore any mitigating circumstances. Only in court, with attorney fees of a thousand dollars a day (this was some years ago) would my defenses be heard. He said that defenses such as "donations" and "research partnerships" and "religious practices" seldom work and will likely lose even if you can afford to go on to the appellate court. The only person he knew of who won a medical device case against the FDA was L Ron Hubbard. who re-organized Dianetics as a religion-Scientology-and established that the e-meter was used as an aid to religious counseling. Anyone with $100,000 who wants to try that with a magpulser, godzilla, etc? After paying for an hour of the lawyer's time, money well spent, I decided not to pursue the mfr'gof electro-sleep machines. Dr Bare who originated the Rife-Bare device has wisely stayed away from manufacture. He supplies a comprehensive manual with which you can build your own. He has elected to sell the manual for what is probably less than the printing cost and this has resulted in a world-wide interest in Rife devices. Because he doesn't sell the device the manual is not `labeling' it's just information – free speech. It is not the threat of some unspecified law that keeps me from giving medical, legal or financial advice but a sense of responsibility and a knowledge of my own limitations. I am not qualified by education, licensing or experience to advise anyone on these consequential matters. I will happily share what limited experiences I have had as honestly as I can and try not to imply what others should do or expect.None of the above is up-to-date legal knowledge. Perhaps there is a federal law proscribing medical advice. Does anyone know?Cheers,JonBThe information on this group is not intended as medical advice. Most group members are NOT doctors or health authorities. Please do not request medical advice, lest anyone get into trouble out of human compassion. There are huge fines and issues currently involved with unlicensed medical advice. The group is only here to share experiences according to the theme of the group, namely testing if electrical stimulus might inactivate microbes, as it seems to have done in the Einstein Medical College labs. We are interested in your results, but cannot say anything about repeatability, or whether this might have medical benefits. Thanks, for your understanding, good luck researching. --bG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 It appears if you are prosecuted and convicted of this, it will mean a felony on your record...no employment for about 10 years? That's true in WA state. All you sufferers seeking advice, and those seeking to help, it's wise to publish your results and let others read it if they want, rather than saying anything in response to specific questions. Just post your own results, they speak for themselves. If people want more than that, they aren't legally entitled to it. bG > Practicing medicine without a license is a state offense only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 It basically says its against the law for anybody to heal anybody else unless they have a license. Guess the drug cartel does not want anybody cuttnig into their business of disease the Irony is that the ones tah are licensed to do the curing and healing dont do it either, they just drug , slash and Burn and any doctor that starts curing people of cancer or any other "uncureables" in unacceptable ways is immediately forced to stop or leave the country. So the laws are setup so that the big drug campanies incresase their bottom line and the stock holders profit from the misery of disease while they keep everybody in the dark about the whole farce of medical care in this country In my mind the law is wrong and created by a good ol boy nework to fleece the people of their money through disease Wrong laws are made to be broken because they only profit those special interests tha lobbied for the laws in the first place. then of course come the argument that the law is designed to protect the people from snake oil salesmen and fraud. Yet the law prodects the biggest fraud that exists on this planet in this age. It dose not protect the people. whith the billions they have thrown at the various diseases they should have all been eradicated by now, but instead are on a rapid incresease, which mweans somebody is not doing their job, and also means that those licenced to do that job are part of the problem not the solution. And knowing all that we know what to do. V RE: medical advice Practicing medicine without a license is a state offense only. Medical things are regulated by state law, not federal law. The only time the feds get involved in medical things involves drugs, e.g., when doctors prescribe marijuana, or as stated, when item cross state lines. The FDA has very broad powers, and there was a time somewhat recently where health stores, etc., were very concerned that vitamins may become regulated by the FDA to protect "public safety" (e.g., the recent prohibition of ephedra by the FDA). And the FDA does regulate vitamins to a certain degree, including labeling, which cannot contain claims of healing, etc. Here's Michigan's statute about practicing medicine without a license: MCL 333.16294 Crimes - Unauthorized Practice of Medicine - Practice of Medicine - Definition For the purpose of the offense of practicing medicine without a license, the "practice of medicine" means the diagnosis, treatment, prevention, cure, or relieving of a human disease, ailment, defect, complaint, or other physical or mental condition, by attendance, advice, device, diagnostictest, or other means, or offering, undertaking, attempting to do, or holding oneself out as able to do, any of these acts. As you can see, "advice" is prohibited. California does have a more open system (here's the cite to a page that explains it, for those who are interested: http://www.californiahealthfreedom.org/californiah/htdocs/documents/providers.asp). It's probably one of the only states (if not the only) that has such an open system, though. Kris -----Original Message-----From: Beggs [mailto:JonBeggs@...]Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 5:36 PM Subject: medical adviceI notice the warning about `medical advice' and I question whether there is such a law. The only such federal laws that I know of are concerned with the inter-state shipment of medical devices, and medical materials like prescription drugs. These laws are administered by the FDA and one has to commit some physical act to violate them. What federal agency enforces laws about `medical advice'? Can anyone on this list cite the law in words or by its number? People have been giving and receiving medical advice from their friends, relatives and neighbors for thousands of years and surely it would be a violation of the U.S. Constitution to prohibit this free speech.Medical practice, which is much more than advice, is primarily controlled by state governments who define `medical practice' in various ways. Last year California followed the example of Minnesota and narrowed the m.d.s' monopoly considerably by restricting it to those areas in which m.d.s' have training such as prescription drugs, surgery and x-ray. Currently in California, as long as you don't misrepresent your qualifications you are not prohibited from giving or charging a fee for advice on nutrition, vitamins, herbs, nor selling such products, nor administering Acupressure, aroma therapy, bioenergetics, Bowen therapy, massage, psychic healing, Zoroastrian Aura Cleansing, (I just invented that one) or most any other procedure that doesn't penetrate the skin nor violate other laws on assault, mayhem, drugs, vice and so on. California licenses other healing professions such as chiropractic, acupuncture, psychology, each with its own qualifications, definitions, and rules.Where medical advice becomes subject to federal prosecution is where it names an unlicensed medical device that is shipped across state lines. The law says any such written material can be considered `labeling' for the device. A lawyer I consulted many years ago warned me that the FDA has very broad powers to define `medical device' and does not need a complaint to initiate prosecution. The courts don't care if the device works or doesn't work, is helpful or harmful. The FDA need only establish a. that it is a medical device b. that it is unlicensed c. has been sold interstate. He told me that like any prosecutors the FDA would put the worst possible construction on my activities and motives, could seize devices and records and would certainly ignore any mitigating circumstances. Only in court, with attorney fees of a thousand dollars a day (this was some years ago) would my defenses be heard. He said that defenses such as "donations" and "research partnerships" and "religious practices" seldom work and will likely lose even if you can afford to go on to the appellate court. The only person he knew of who won a medical device case against the FDA was L Ron Hubbard. who re-organized Dianetics as a religion-Scientology-and established that the e-meter was used as an aid to religious counseling. Anyone with $100,000 who wants to try that with a magpulser, godzilla, etc? After paying for an hour of the lawyer's time, money well spent, I decided not to pursue the mfr'gof electro-sleep machines. Dr Bare who originated the Rife-Bare device has wisely stayed away from manufacture. He supplies a comprehensive manual with which you can build your own. He has elected to sell the manual for what is probably less than the printing cost and this has resulted in a world-wide interest in Rife devices. Because he doesn't sell the device the manual is not `labeling' it's just information – free speech. It is not the threat of some unspecified law that keeps me from giving medical, legal or financial advice but a sense of responsibility and a knowledge of my own limitations. I am not qualified by education, licensing or experience to advise anyone on these consequential matters. I will happily share what limited experiences I have had as honestly as I can and try not to imply what others should do or expect.None of the above is up-to-date legal knowledge. Perhaps there is a federal law proscribing medical advice. Does anyone know?Cheers,JonBThe information on this group is not intended as medical advice. Most group members are NOT doctors or health authorities. Please do not request medical advice, lest anyone get into trouble out of human compassion. There are huge fines and issues currently involved with unlicensed medical advice. The group is only here to share experiences according to the theme of the group, namely testing if electrical stimulus might inactivate microbes, as it seems to have done in the Einstein Medical College labs. We are interested in your results, but cannot say anything about repeatability, or whether this might have medical benefits. Thanks, for your understanding, good luck researching. --bG The information on this group is not intended as medical advice. Most group members are NOT doctors or health authorities. Please do not request medical advice, lest anyone get into trouble out of human compassion. There are huge fines and issues currently involved with unlicensed medical advice. The group is only here to share experiences according to the theme of the group, namely testing if electrical stimulus might inactivate microbes, as it seems to have done in the Einstein Medical College labs. We are interested in your results, but cannot say anything about repeatability, or whether this might have medical benefits. Thanks, for your understanding, good luck researching. --bG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 Kind of lays waste to the Declaration of Independence's declaration of our 'unalienable right to life.' Re: medical advice It basically says its against the law for anybody to heal anybody else unless they have a license. Guess the drug cartel does not want anybody cuttnig into their business of disease Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 Yupp so if they lay waste to that they are guilty of treason and must be put in jail It time to lay waste to them. V Re: medical advice It basically says its against the law for anybody to heal anybody else unless they have a license. Guess the drug cartel does not want anybody cuttnig into their business of diseaseThe information on this group is not intended as medical advice. Most group members are NOT doctors or health authorities. Please do not request medical advice, lest anyone get into trouble out of human compassion. There are huge fines and issues currently involved with unlicensed medical advice. The group is only here to share experiences according to the theme of the group, namely testing if electrical stimulus might inactivate microbes, as it seems to have done in the Einstein Medical College labs. We are interested in your results, but cannot say anything about repeatability, or whether this might have medical benefits. Thanks, for your understanding, good luck researching. --bG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2004 Report Share Posted March 19, 2004 Similar to Canada - a lot of the advice and supplements we support are non-medical; if they were medical, wouldn't the medics be using them? Conversely, if the medics used some of these methods/substances, we wouldn't need the drugs. Anyway -- There are many specific practices/consultations we CAN do that are well-protected throughout the civilized world. They involve 'letting the body heal itself by the grace of God', and they DO include consulting on nutrition, herbs, as well as delivering several services. Get legal protection from your governent at http://crch.rbsocc.org. The college has credit courses leading to degrees that are I think, accepted practically worldwide, certainly in Canada and the US, Europe and the Middle East. You can also involve the client in his own application of any therapy for a measure of safety. Duncan Crow > Crimes - Unauthorized Practice of Medicine - Practice of Medicine - > Definition > > For the purpose of the offense of practicing medicine without a > license, the " practice of medicine " means the diagnosis, treatment, > prevention, cure, or relieving of a human disease, ailment, defect, > complaint, or other physical or mental condition, by attendance, > advice, device, diagnostic test, or other means, or offering, > undertaking, attempting to do, or holding oneself out as able to do, > any of these acts. > > As you can see, " advice " is prohibited. California does have a more > open system (here's the cite to a page that explains it, for those who > are interested: > http://www.californiahealthfreedom.org/californiah/htdocs/documents/pr > ov iders.asp). It's probably one of the only states (if not the only) > that has such an open system, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2008 Report Share Posted September 21, 2008 I'm not a doctor, and neither are you. That's why neither of us are supposed to give medical advice. I'm happy to give suggestions to people who buy portable chambers, however, I don't sell chambers to people who are not under a doctor's care. I realize that as an operator of a hard chamber clinic, you lose tens of thousands of dollars in income each time someone buys a portable chamber for home use. Sadly, instead of thinking of what's best for your patients, you seem more concerned with your bottom line. Both hard chambers and soft chambers have a place in hyperbaric medicine. Some of the people I work with do an initial round 40 hard chamber dives and buy a portable chamber for long term follow up. I'm all for combining hard and soft HBOT if that is what a patient feels is best. It would be great if we could all work together for the benefit of the patients. Diane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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