Guest guest Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Kerry, You wrote: > We'll just have to agree to disagree ( not about Albert - he was smart > and lucky ). > > I'm just asking for more respect for anecdotal evidence and > practitioners who have many years of clinical experience. I'll try to be more respectful, but most of the guys with the peer reviewed publications also have many years of clinical experience. One thing I have observed with physicians, as I suspect you and Gracia can confirm, is that self delusions can persist for decades, even with years of clinical experience. That is where peer review can be helpful. It can provide a new set of eyes to notice whether the emperor is properly vestured. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 But there is evidence of that my dear. NEJM wrote an editorial about it. Gracia > You would need to present some evidence. If your knowledge of the > extent of the peer reviewed process in science is limited to your line > below that appears unlikely. > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.5/300 - Release Date: 4/3/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Hi , We are on a health board so of course we're not talking about Palaeontologists LOL Although I hear there is plenty of dissention on the peer review process in other scientific fields I don't care as it does not affect me - I am specifically criticizing medical scientific research because it does effect me. Kerry Re: Iodine But there is evidence of that my dear. NEJM wrote an editorial about it. Gracia > > You would need to present some evidence. If your knowledge of the > > extent of the peer reviewed process in science is limited to your line > > below that appears unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 Remember when it was considered very dangerous to take " too much " vitamin D? LOL Check out the history of iodine at http://www.iodine4health.com or http://www.helpmythyroid.com Iodine is indicated for PCOS and diabetes. I have been taking 50mg Iodoral http://www.optimox.com for 9 months now. Shouldn't I be very sick from it? In fact it is a wonderful thing. One improvement I have seen is that my skin tags are disappearing. Skin tags are a symptoms of blood sugar problems. I also take 20mg cortef every day too. Gracia > Dusty, > > You wrote: >> >> I had begun to think I might tgry the iodine, but certainly not if it can >> contribute to diabetes. > > I would suggest you check the literature on this first. Remember the FAQ > said it was controversial. If you compare the RDA of iodine (as > potassium iodide, 0.15 mg) with the amount in a levothyroxine supplement > (four atoms of iodine per molecule), you can see that full replacement > thyroid meds plus your daily intake will more than meet the RDA. > > Here is what the National Research Council has to say about iodine > supplements in _Recommended Dietary Allowances_, 10th ed. Washington, > D.C.: National Academy Press. > > [begin quote] > > Too much or too little iodine intake results in a wide spectrum of > disorders that are addressed by adjusting iodine intake. Too much iodine > can result in toxicity. > > Excess iodine is typically excreted, and output can be measured in the > urine. Regular excessive iodine intake is needed for toxicity. Excess > iodine, when used as a supplement or in drug therapy, may reduce thyroid > function. Although more commonly associated with iodine deficiency, > goiter can also result from too much iodine due to thyroid > hyperactivity. Additionally, high amounts of iodine from sources such as > overuse of iodized salt, vitamins, cough medications, kelp tablets, or > from medical testing can cause effects including rapid pulse, > nervousness, headaches, fatigue, a brassy taste in the mouth, excessive > salivation, gastric irritation, and hypothyroidism. Acne can appear or > become worse. Some iodine-sensitive individuals may have an allergic > reaction to iodine, often a skin rash. A physician may recommend that > high iodine foods be removed from the diet of those who are > iodine-sensitive. Similar side effects have also been observed in some > women participating in studies on iodine and diagnosed FBD. Radioactive > iodine has been implicated in producing thyroid dysfunction and thyroid > cancer. > > Other Resources: > > The Merck Manual of Diagnosis and Therapy. 17th ed. Edited by Mark H. > Beers and Berkow. Whitehouse Station, N.J.: Merck Research > Laboratories, 1999. > > ORGANIZATIONS > > U.S. Fund for UNICEF. 333 East 38th Street NY, NY 10016. > http://www.unicefusa.org/issues99/sep99/learn.html.web > master@.... > > World Health Organization (WHO). Avenue Appia 20 1211 Geneva 27, > Switzerland. (+00–41–22)791–21–11. Fax: (+00–41–22)791–311. > http://www.who.int/inf-fs/en/fact 121.html. info@.... > > International Council for Control of Iodine deficiency Disorders > (ICCIDD). Prof. Jack Ling. Director, ICEC. 1501 Canal Street, Suite > 1304, New Orleans, LA 70112. (504)584–3542 Fax: (504)585–4090. > ICEC@.... > > http://www.people.virginia.edu/~jtd/iccidd/. > > [end quote] > > Here is another abstract from PubMed: J Am Diet Assoc. 1990 > Nov;90(11):1571-81. " A review of iodine toxicity reports. " Pennington > JA, Division of Nutrition, Food and Drug Administration, Washington, DC > 20204. > > This article summarizes case reports, population studies, and > experimental studies from the literature concerning adverse effects of > exposure to iodine from the mid-1880s to 1988. Exposure to excessive > iodine through foods, dietary supplements, topical medications, and/or > iodinated contrast media has resulted in thyroiditis, goiter, > hypothyroidism, hyperthyroidism, sensitivity reactions, or acute > responses for some individuals. Reports of maternal iodine exposure > during pregnancy or lactation affecting newborn or nursing infants are > cited. Susceptibility to excess iodine is discussed as well as the > relationship between dose and response. It is concluded that some > individuals can tolerate very high levels of iodine with no apparent > side effects and that iodine intakes less than or equal to 1.000 mg/day > are probably safe for the majority of the population, but may cause > adverse effects in some individuals. Determination of maximum tolerable > levels of iodine intake will require human experimental studies at > levels between 0.150 and 1.000 mg/day for normal subjects, subjects with > autonomous thyroid tissue, and iodine-sensitive subjects. > > Here is another from Exp Mol Pathol. 1986 Jun;44(3):259-71. > " Direct toxic effect of iodide in excess on iodine-deficient thyroid > glands: epithelial necrosis and inflammation associated with lipofuscin > accumulation. " Mahmoud I, Colin I, Many MC, Denef JF. > > Involution of thyroid hyperplasia (induced by a low iodine diet and > a goitrogen, propylthiouracil, PTU) was obtained in mice by > administering a high or a moderate dose of iodide (HID or MID, > respectively). In HID involuting glands, vasoconstriction was observed > after 12 hr whereas necrosis and inflammation were very abundant as > early as after 6 hr and maximal after 48 hr. They were not prevented by > papaverine by which vasoconstriction was inhibited, but were inhibited > by the continuation of PTU by which iodide oxidation and organification > were inhibited. Lipofuscin inclusions in thyroid and inflammatory cells > were always associated with necrosis. On the contrary, when involution > was induced by MID or by HID + triiodothyronine (T3), or by T3 alone, > neither necrosis nor inflammation occurred and apoptosis was the only > mode of cell deletion. No lipofuscin inclusion occurred. Our results > demonstrate that iodide in excess, after being oxidized or organified, > is directly toxic for iodine-deficient thyroid cells. The presence of > lipofuscin suggests that its toxicity is mediated by lipid peroxidation, > a consequence of production of free radicals in excess. > > More sources at: > http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/evm_iodine.pdf > > In summary, if you don't have a real deficiency, you might be playing > with fire by taking large supplements. > > Chuck > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2006 Report Share Posted October 14, 2006 One of the things in Chuck's post was a reference that noted that individual responses to high doses of iodine may vary: Quote: [ " It is concluded that some individuals can tolerate very high levels of iodine with no apparent side effects and that iodine intakes less than or equal to 1.000 mg/day are probably safe for the majority of the population, but may cause adverse effects in some individuals. " ] End of quote. So you may well be one of the people who can tolerate high doses of iodine. FAIK I might be too. But if I knew that I happened to be one such I would be very careful about recommending something to someone else that, although it caused me no problem, might well injure or kill them. .. Re: Iodine <hypothyroidism/message/25961;_ylc=X3oDMTJxaDhvdG5\ 0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMjU5NjEEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE2MDc1MTY4OQ--> Posted by: " Gracia " circe@... <mailto:circe@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Iodine> graciabee <graciabee> Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:08 am (PST) Remember when it was considered very dangerous to take " too much " vitamin D? LOL Check out the history of iodine at http://www.iodine4health.com <http://www.iodine4health.com> or http://www.helpmythyroid.com <http://www.helpmythyroid.com> Iodine is indicated for PCOS and diabetes. I have been taking 50mg Iodoral http://www.optimox.com <http://www.optimox.com> for 9 months now. Shouldn't I be very sick from it? In fact it is a wonderful thing. One improvement I have seen is that my skin tags are disappearing. Skin tags are a symptoms of blood sugar problems. I also take 20mg cortef every day too. Gracia > Dusty, > > You wrote: >> >> I had begun to think I might tgry the iodine, but certainly not if it can >> contribute to diabetes. > > I would suggest you check the literature on this first. Remember the FAQ > said it was controversial. If you compare the RDA of iodine (as > potassium iodide, 0.15 mg) with the amount in a levothyroxine supplement > (four atoms of iodine per molecule), you can see that full replacement > thyroid meds plus your daily intake will more than meet the RDA. > > Here is what the National Research Council has to say about iodine > supplements in _Recommended Dietary Allowances_, 10th ed. Washington, > D.C.: National Academy Press. > > [begin quote] > > Too much or too little iodine intake results in a wide spectrum of > disorders that are addressed by adjusting iodine intake. Too much iodine > can result in toxicity. > > Excess iodine is typically excreted, and output can be measured in the > urine. Regular excessive iodine intake is needed for toxicity. Excess > iodine, when used as a supplement or in drug therapy, may reduce thyroid > function. Although more commonly associated with iodine deficiency, > goiter can also result from too much iodine due to thyroid > hyperactivity. Additionally, high amounts of iodine from sources such as > overuse of iodized salt, vitamins, cough medications, kelp tablets, or > from medical testing can cause effects including rapid pulse, > nervousness, headaches, fatigue, a brassy taste in the mouth, excessive > salivation, gastric irritation, and hypothyroidism. Acne can appear or > become worse. Some iodine-sensitive individuals may have an allergic > reaction to iodine, often a skin rash. A physician may recommend that > high iodine foods be removed from the diet of those who are > iodine-sensitive. Similar side effects have also been observed in some > women participating in studies on iodine and diagnosed FBD. Radioactive > iodine has been implicated in producing thyroid dysfunction and thyroid > cancer. > > Other Resources: > > The Merck Manual of Diagnosis and Therapy. 17th ed. Edited by Mark H. > Beers and Berkow. Whitehouse Station, N.J.: Merck Research > Laboratories, 1999. > > ORGANIZATIONS > > U.S. Fund for UNICEF. 333 East 38th Street NY, NY 10016. > http://www.unicefusa.org/issues99/sep99/learn.html.web <http://www.unicefusa.org/issues99/sep99/learn.html.web> > master@... <mailto:master%40unicefusa.org>. > > World Health Organization (WHO). Avenue Appia 20 1211 Geneva 27, > Switzerland. (+00-41-22)791- 21-11. Fax: (+00-41-22)791-311. > http://www.who.int/inf-fs/en/fact <http://www.who.int/inf-fs/en/fact> 121.html. info@... <mailto:info%40who.int>. > > International Council for Control of Iodine deficiency Disorders > (ICCIDD). Prof. Jack Ling. Director, ICEC. 1501 Canal Street, Suite > 1304, New Orleans, LA 70112. (504)584-3542 Fax: (504)585-4090. > ICEC@... <mailto:ICEC%40mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu>. > > http://www.people.virginia.edu/~jtd/iccidd/. <http://www.people.virginia.edu/%7Ejtd/iccidd/.> > > [end quote] > > Here is another abstract from PubMed: J Am Diet Assoc. 1990 > Nov;90(11):1571-81. " A review of iodine toxicity reports. " Pennington > JA, Division of Nutrition, Food and Drug Administration, Washington, DC > 20204. > > This article summarizes case reports, population studies, and > experimental studies from the literature concerning adverse effects of > exposure to iodine from the mid-1880s to 1988. Exposure to excessive > iodine through foods, dietary supplements, topical medications, and/or > iodinated contrast media has resulted in thyroiditis, goiter, > hypothyroidism, hyperthyroidism, sensitivity reactions, or acute > responses for some individuals. Reports of maternal iodine exposure > during pregnancy or lactation affecting newborn or nursing infants are > cited. Susceptibility to excess iodine is discussed as well as the > relationship between dose and response. It is concluded that some > individuals can tolerate very high levels of iodine with no apparent > side effects and that iodine intakes less than or equal to 1.000 mg/day > are probably safe for the majority of the population, but may cause > adverse effects in some individuals. Determination of maximum tolerable > levels of iodine intake will require human experimental studies at > levels between 0.150 and 1.000 mg/day for normal subjects, subjects with > autonomous thyroid tissue, and iodine-sensitive subjects. > > Here is another from Exp Mol Pathol. 1986 Jun;44(3):259-71. > " Direct toxic effect of iodide in excess on iodine-deficient thyroid > glands: epithelial necrosis and inflammation associated with lipofuscin > accumulation. " Mahmoud I, Colin I, Many MC, Denef JF. > > Involution of thyroid hyperplasia (induced by a low iodine diet and > a goitrogen, propylthiouracil, PTU) was obtained in mice by > administering a high or a moderate dose of iodide (HID or MID, > respectively). In HID involuting glands, vasoconstriction was observed > after 12 hr whereas necrosis and inflammation were very abundant as > early as after 6 hr and maximal after 48 hr. They were not prevented by > papaverine by which vasoconstriction was inhibited, but were inhibited > by the continuation of PTU by which iodide oxidation and organification > were inhibited. Lipofuscin inclusions in thyroid and inflammatory cells > were always associated with necrosis. On the contrary, when involution > was induced by MID or by HID + triiodothyronine (T3), or by T3 alone, > neither necrosis nor inflammation occurred and apoptosis was the only > mode of cell deletion. No lipofuscin inclusion occurred. Our results > demonstrate that iodide in excess, after being oxidized or organified, > is directly toxic for iodine-deficient thyroid cells. The presence of > lipofuscin suggests that its toxicity is mediated by lipid peroxidation, > a consequence of production of free radicals in excess. > > More sources at: > http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/evm_iodine.pdf <http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/evm_iodine.pdf> > > In summary, if you don't have a real deficiency, you might be playing > with fire by taking large supplements. > > Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2006 Report Share Posted October 14, 2006 actually the iodine research/iodine group are pretty much proving the opposite. Low dose iodine causes lots of probs. That's why I say look at the history of iodine use. Using iodine properly would have a huge negative impact on the drug industry. no I am not the rare case at all. my experience just reaffirms my belief that this current system is not based on science, but rather on greed. gracia One of the things in Chuck's post was a reference that noted that individual responses to high doses of iodine may vary: Quote: [ " It is concluded that some individuals can tolerate very high levels of iodine with no apparent side effects and that iodine intakes less than or equal to 1.000 mg/day are probably safe for the majority of the population, but may cause adverse effects in some individuals. " ] End of quote. So you may well be one of the people who can tolerate high doses of iodine. FAIK I might be too. But if I knew that I happened to be one such I would be very careful about recommending something to someone else that, although it caused me no problem, might well injure or kill them. . Recent Activity a.. 9New Members Visit Your Group Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2006 Report Share Posted October 14, 2006 Gracia, You wrote: > > actually the iodine research/iodine group are pretty much proving the > opposite. ... Again, unless you have found some new citations to share with us, the only output of the " iodine research group " seems to be unreviewed articles in a chiropractic magazine. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2006 Report Share Posted October 15, 2006 There's a lot of great iodine research and I have posted sites to access them like http://www.iodine4health.com Obviously a problem with this research is who is going to fund it. Not big pharma. Well I guess someone is developing a patentable iodine for breast cancer patients. Why do docs Rx fosomax for osteoporosis or synthetic hormones for menopause? Research? Great leaps forward (or backward in this case, b/c high dose iodine has been used successfully in the past) have often been made by one tireless person who persevered in spite of lack of support. Why discount the experiences of people who have taken high dose iodine, or Dr. Brownstein's book on iodine? To what do you attribute the increase in thyroid cancer, or higher rate of breast cancer in thyroid patients? If we have known for a long time that goiter=iodine deficiency why don't we treat it with iodine? Gracia Gracia, You wrote: > > actually the iodine research/iodine group are pretty much proving the > opposite. ... Again, unless you have found some new citations to share with us, the only output of the " iodine research group " seems to be unreviewed articles in a chiropractic magazine. Chuck ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.4/475 - Release Date: 10/13/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2006 Report Share Posted October 15, 2006 Gracia, You wrote: > > There's a lot of great iodine research and I have posted sites to access > them like http://www.iodine4health.com <http://www.iodine4health.com> > Obviously a problem with this research is who is going to fund it. ... Again, that is because all of the " published " papers and book cited are in non-reviewed venues. In fact, they are all in the _Original Internist_, except for the book, which was published by Medical Alternatives Press. They did send in a rebuttal to an editorial (posted here before) in the Townsend Letters, but that is not refereed either. If the authors have such confidence in their results and methods, why don't they submit to a journal with some sort of scientific review? I find it curious that you would so readily question the motives of the pharmaceutical industry and doctors, but not this group. >... If we have known for a long time that goiter=iodine deficiency > why don't we treat it with iodine? Actually, they do treat for goiter by giving the RDA in low iodine regions. That is why it is added to our salt, as a preventative. Goiter is triggered by lack of iodine, but once it gets going, the damage is done. It does not respond much to an overdose, once the horse is out of the barn. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2006 Report Share Posted October 15, 2006 Chuck no peeps are having enormous success getting rid of goiter on overdoses of iodine. Also incredible results with thyroid/breast cancer. Gracia Gracia, You wrote: > > There's a lot of great iodine research and I have posted sites to access > them like http://www.iodine4health.com <http://www.iodine4health.com> > Obviously a problem with this research is who is going to fund it. ... Again, that is because all of the " published " papers and book cited are in non-reviewed venues. In fact, they are all in the _Original Internist_, except for the book, which was published by Medical Alternatives Press. They did send in a rebuttal to an editorial (posted here before) in the Townsend Letters, but that is not refereed either. If the authors have such confidence in their results and methods, why don't they submit to a journal with some sort of scientific review? I find it curious that you would so readily question the motives of the pharmaceutical industry and doctors, but not this group. >... If we have known for a long time that goiter=iodine deficiency > why don't we treat it with iodine? Actually, they do treat for goiter by giving the RDA in low iodine regions. That is why it is added to our salt, as a preventative. Goiter is triggered by lack of iodine, but once it gets going, the damage is done. It does not respond much to an overdose, once the horse is out of the barn. Chuck ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.4/475 - Release Date: 10/13/2006 ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.4/475 - Release Date: 10/13/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2006 Report Share Posted October 15, 2006 Are you saying that using the iodine prevented people from getting breast cancer? Re: Re: Iodine Chuck no peeps are having enormous success getting rid of goiter on overdoses of iodine. Also incredible results with thyroid/breast cancer. Gracia Gracia, You wrote: > > There's a lot of great iodine research and I have posted sites to access > them like http://www.iodine4h <http://www.iodine4health.com> ealth.com <http://www.iodine4h <http://www.iodine4health.com> ealth.com> > Obviously a problem with this research is who is going to fund it. ... Again, that is because all of the " published " papers and book cited are in non-reviewed venues. In fact, they are all in the _Original Internist_, except for the book, which was published by Medical Alternatives Press. They did send in a rebuttal to an editorial (posted here before) in the Townsend Letters, but that is not refereed either. If the authors have such confidence in their results and methods, why don't they submit to a journal with some sort of scientific review? I find it curious that you would so readily question the motives of the pharmaceutical industry and doctors, but not this group. >... If we have known for a long time that goiter=iodine deficiency > why don't we treat it with iodine? Actually, they do treat for goiter by giving the RDA in low iodine regions. That is why it is added to our salt, as a preventative. Goiter is triggered by lack of iodine, but once it gets going, the damage is done. It does not respond much to an overdose, once the horse is out of the barn. Chuck ---------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.4/475 - Release Date: 10/13/2006 ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.4/475 - Release Date: 10/13/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2006 Report Share Posted October 15, 2006 yes iodine is seen as preventative for all sex organ cancers (breast, ovary, testes, prostate), and also thyroid cancer. Sex organs absorb and store lots of iodine. Dr. Derry from Canada wrote a book on breast cancer and iodine. That is why it is interesting that peeps on thyroid hormone have a higher rate of breast cancer than general population. They are iodine deficient. On the iodine list iodine@... there is one woman who is treating active breast cancer with Iodoral which is high dose iodine. The lumps in her breasts are disappearing. gracia Are you saying that using the iodine prevented people from getting breast cancer? Recent Activity a.. 9New Members Visit Your Group Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2007 Report Share Posted January 24, 2007 I am new to hypothyroidism. I was diagnosed with autoimmune hypothyroidism a couple of months ago. I don't quite understand the whole kelp, iodine thing but I do know that I eat kelp every couple of days. Is that bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 Chuck, I was hoping you would get in on this discussion....I like to hear all sides. Thank you. I will look into the archives for more info. So even though my thyroid is non-functioning, it could still cause me a problem because I would not be able to benefit from the hormones I am taking because the iodine would be telling my body I don't need the hormones? Am I understanding this right? I'm sorry, I am not at all medically knowledgable. Thanks again to all who have responded to my post. Venizia > > Venizia, > > The main danger with iodine (and kelp) is that it can aggravate an > autoimmune reaction to thyroid hormones. The antibodies trigger on the > iodine. Whether this is entirely bad is debatable. It accelerates the > destruction of the thyroid, so you stabilize more quickly at a full > replacement dose. Some might see that as a benefit. > > Gracia is advocating iodine at doses many times what the published > literature calls toxic. Our archives are full of posts and citations pro > and con on this, so I won't repeat it. You pay yer dues, and you take > yer chances. > > Chuck > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 Venizia, You wrote: > ... So even though my thyroid is non-functioning, it > could still cause me a problem because I would not be able to benefit > from the hormones I am taking because the iodine would be telling my body I don't need the > hormones? ... No. With _Hashimoto's_, the immune system periodically mounts an attack against thyroid hormones and the thyroid gland. Eventually, this destroys the gland. However, in between immune attacks, you may have partial remissions, with a small dose of medication sufficing to make you well. Or, some even go into full remission and recover their natural thyroid function ... until the immune system goes haywire again. The issue with iodine and Hashimoto's, is that the iodine can _start_ an attack (as an antigen or perhaps as a hapten) or aggravate a mild attack in progress. Again, this really only is a problem for early stage Hashimoto's, when you may be trying to avoid having to take thyroid meds. Once the thyroid is gone, there is nothing for the antibodies to attack, even with the extra iodine as a trigger, so it calms down. Then you can just replace the missing hormone and return to normalcy. Your body does not confuse elemental iodine (or iodide ions) with thyroid hormones. So there is no deception. My issue with high doses of iodine, stems from the accepted medical literature, which says our main use of iodine is by the thyroid gland. Gracia's literature says that other parts of the body need huge amounts of iodine, not just T3, but lots of extra elemental iodine. In contrast, modern medicine says that just about all the iodine we need goes into thyroid hormones. If you take levothyroxine, for example, you get four atoms of iodine in EVERY molecule. That is quite a bit of iodine. In case your body still needs more, there is still quite a bit in food or in table salt, which has iodide added. So, there is no evidence we need to be flooded with tons of additional iodine to feel well, and there is ample evidence that there is a significant segment of the population for whom these doses cause serious problems. OTOH, there does seem to be enough preliminary data to suggest that, for the people that do not have toxic reactions, that extra iodine might help or prevent breast cancer. That should be investigated. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 iodine is indicated for fibromyalgia, fibrocystic breast disease, mental retardation, birth defects, sex organ cancers (like prostate), thyroid cancer, ADD/ADHD, completely cures hyperthyroidism and also linked to autoimmune illness (hashis, diabetes). Iodine docs like Flechas say they have never seen a case of Wollf-Chertoff (sp?) effect. read read read. http://www.drbrownstein.com get the new video! Gracia Venizia, You wrote: > ... So even though my thyroid is non-functioning, it > could still cause me a problem because I would not be able to benefit > from the hormones I am taking because the iodine would be telling my body I don't need the > hormones? ... No. With _Hashimoto's_, the immune system periodically mounts an attack against thyroid hormones and the thyroid gland. Eventually, this destroys the gland. However, in between immune attacks, you may have partial remissions, with a small dose of medication sufficing to make you well. Or, some even go into full remission and recover their natural thyroid function ... until the immune system goes haywire again. The issue with iodine and Hashimoto's, is that the iodine can _start_ an attack (as an antigen or perhaps as a hapten) or aggravate a mild attack in progress. Again, this really only is a problem for early stage Hashimoto's, when you may be trying to avoid having to take thyroid meds. Once the thyroid is gone, there is nothing for the antibodies to attack, even with the extra iodine as a trigger, so it calms down. Then you can just replace the missing hormone and return to normalcy. Your body does not confuse elemental iodine (or iodide ions) with thyroid hormones. So there is no deception. My issue with high doses of iodine, stems from the accepted medical literature, which says our main use of iodine is by the thyroid gland. Gracia's literature says that other parts of the body need huge amounts of iodine, not just T3, but lots of extra elemental iodine. In contrast, modern medicine says that just about all the iodine we need goes into thyroid hormones. If you take levothyroxine, for example, you get four atoms of iodine in EVERY molecule. That is quite a bit of iodine. In case your body still needs more, there is still quite a bit in food or in table salt, which has iodide added. So, there is no evidence we need to be flooded with tons of additional iodine to feel well, and there is ample evidence that there is a significant segment of the population for whom these doses cause serious problems. OTOH, there does seem to be enough preliminary data to suggest that, for the people that do not have toxic reactions, that extra iodine might help or prevent breast cancer. That should be investigated. Chuck ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.8/649 - Release Date: 1/23/2007 ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.8/649 - Release Date: 1/23/2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 I am feeling very depressed about my autoimmune hypothyroidism. I know I don't have cancer or some terrible illness and I am grateful for that but I am just feeling really down right now. My doctor has told me that my TSH levels are normal and that I am all set now, but I don't feel that way at all. I still gain weight SO easily, still feel significantly slower in the head than I used to, and I feel like I am getting support and understanding from nowhere except for the occassional e-mails in this group who are experiencing the same thing. I don't understand where the day-to-day strength comes from to deal with this. Re: Re: Iodine iodine is indicated for fibromyalgia, fibrocystic breast disease, mental retardation, birth defects, sex organ cancers (like prostate), thyroid cancer, ADD/ADHD, completely cures hyperthyroidism and also linked to autoimmune illness (hashis, diabetes). Iodine docs like Flechas say they have never seen a case of Wollf-Chertoff (sp?) effect. read read read. http://www.drbrownstein.com get the new video! Gracia Venizia, You wrote: > ... So even though my thyroid is non-functioning, it > could still cause me a problem because I would not be able to benefit > from the hormones I am taking because the iodine would be telling my body I don't need the > hormones? ... No. With _Hashimoto's_, the immune system periodically mounts an attack against thyroid hormones and the thyroid gland. Eventually, this destroys the gland. However, in between immune attacks, you may have partial remissions, with a small dose of medication sufficing to make you well. Or, some even go into full remission and recover their natural thyroid function ... until the immune system goes haywire again. The issue with iodine and Hashimoto's, is that the iodine can _start_ an attack (as an antigen or perhaps as a hapten) or aggravate a mild attack in progress. Again, this really only is a problem for early stage Hashimoto's, when you may be trying to avoid having to take thyroid meds. Once the thyroid is gone, there is nothing for the antibodies to attack, even with the extra iodine as a trigger, so it calms down. Then you can just replace the missing hormone and return to normalcy. Your body does not confuse elemental iodine (or iodide ions) with thyroid hormones. So there is no deception. My issue with high doses of iodine, stems from the accepted medical literature, which says our main use of iodine is by the thyroid gland. Gracia's literature says that other parts of the body need huge amounts of iodine, not just T3, but lots of extra elemental iodine. In contrast, modern medicine says that just about all the iodine we need goes into thyroid hormones. If you take levothyroxine, for example, you get four atoms of iodine in EVERY molecule. That is quite a bit of iodine. In case your body still needs more, there is still quite a bit in food or in table salt, which has iodide added. So, there is no evidence we need to be flooded with tons of additional iodine to feel well, and there is ample evidence that there is a significant segment of the population for whom these doses cause serious problems. OTOH, there does seem to be enough preliminary data to suggest that, for the people that do not have toxic reactions, that extra iodine might help or prevent breast cancer. That should be investigated. Chuck ---------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.8/649 - Release Date: 1/23/2007 ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.8/649 - Release Date: 1/23/2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 Hi! Depression is a symptom of hypothyroidism. It all comes with the disease. Just fight that feeling and come out of it. D999 bear339@... wrote: I am feeling very depressed about my autoimmune hypothyroidism. I know I don't have cancer or some terrible illness and I am grateful for that but I am just feeling really down right now. My doctor has told me that my TSH levels are normal and that I am all set now, but I don't feel that way at all. I still gain weight SO easily, still feel significantly slower in the head than I used to, and I feel like I am getting support and understanding from nowhere except for the occassional e-mails in this group who are experiencing the same thing. I don't understand where the day-to-day strength comes from to deal with this. Re: Re: Iodine iodine is indicated for fibromyalgia, fibrocystic breast disease, mental retardation, birth defects, sex organ cancers (like prostate), thyroid cancer, ADD/ADHD, completely cures hyperthyroidism and also linked to autoimmune illness (hashis, diabetes). Iodine docs like Flechas say they have never seen a case of Wollf-Chertoff (sp?) effect. read read read. http://www.drbrownstein.com get the new video! Gracia Venizia, You wrote: > ... So even though my thyroid is non-functioning, it > could still cause me a problem because I would not be able to benefit > from the hormones I am taking because the iodine would be telling my body I don't need the > hormones? ... No. With _Hashimoto's_, the immune system periodically mounts an attack against thyroid hormones and the thyroid gland. Eventually, this destroys the gland. However, in between immune attacks, you may have partial remissions, with a small dose of medication sufficing to make you well. Or, some even go into full remission and recover their natural thyroid function ... until the immune system goes haywire again. The issue with iodine and Hashimoto's, is that the iodine can _start_ an attack (as an antigen or perhaps as a hapten) or aggravate a mild attack in progress. Again, this really only is a problem for early stage Hashimoto's, when you may be trying to avoid having to take thyroid meds. Once the thyroid is gone, there is nothing for the antibodies to attack, even with the extra iodine as a trigger, so it calms down. Then you can just replace the missing hormone and return to normalcy. Your body does not confuse elemental iodine (or iodide ions) with thyroid hormones. So there is no deception. My issue with high doses of iodine, stems from the accepted medical literature, which says our main use of iodine is by the thyroid gland. Gracia's literature says that other parts of the body need huge amounts of iodine, not just T3, but lots of extra elemental iodine. In contrast, modern medicine says that just about all the iodine we need goes into thyroid hormones. If you take levothyroxine, for example, you get four atoms of iodine in EVERY molecule. That is quite a bit of iodine. In case your body still needs more, there is still quite a bit in food or in table salt, which has iodide added. So, there is no evidence we need to be flooded with tons of additional iodine to feel well, and there is ample evidence that there is a significant segment of the population for whom these doses cause serious problems. OTOH, there does seem to be enough preliminary data to suggest that, for the people that do not have toxic reactions, that extra iodine might help or prevent breast cancer. That should be investigated. Chuck ---------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.8/649 - Release Date: 1/23/2007 ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.8/649 - Release Date: 1/23/2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 Hi, . Quite a few people here have reported that they do not feel well even though the TSH level is within the recommended range. Some do not feel well until TSH is suppressed to the very bottom of the range; or even below it. Still others have difficulty because their bodies cannot properly process the hormones. I believe the T3 and T4 [or free T3 and free T4?] levels are a good indicator of this. If you are in the middle or upper part of the TSH range you might ask you doctor to increase your medication to suppress TSH to a lower level. If you do that be sure you are familiar with the symptoms of hyperthyroidism, as too much medication can push you in that direction. Good Luck, Re: Iodine <hypothyroidism/message/26746;_ylc=X3oDMTJxcGRuNTl\ oBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMjY3NDYEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE2OTcyMzQxOQ--> Posted by: " bear339@... " bear339@... <mailto:bear339@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Iodine> ebradi3951 <ebradi3951> Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:23 pm (PST) I am feeling very depressed about my autoimmune hypothyroidism. I know I don't have cancer or some terrible illness and I am grateful for that but I am just feeling really down right now. My doctor has told me that my TSH levels are normal and that I am all set now, but I don't feel that way at all. I still gain weight SO easily, still feel significantly slower in the head than I used to, and I feel like I am getting support and understanding from nowhere except for the occassional e-mails in this group who are experiencing the same thing. I don't understand where the day-to-day strength comes from to deal with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 The wikipedia article is pretty good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iodine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 , You wrote: > > > I am new to hypothyroidism. I was diagnosed with autoimmune > hypothyroidism a > couple of months ago. I don't quite understand the whole kelp, iodine thing > but I do know that I eat kelp every couple of days. Is that bad? For you, potentially bad. The thyroid takes in iodine (iodide) from food you eat and turns it into thyroid hormones, which you need to be healthy. So, one theory (#1) is that a little extra iodine (from kelp) will help a weak thyroid do its job. This logic clearly works if your diet is deficient in iodine. The leading cause of mental retardation worldwide is lack of iodine, marked by a high incidence of goiter in people living in areas with iodine depleted soils. However, the amount of iodide needed to correct this problem is tiny. It's the amount they put in table salt in developed countries. So, the U.N. is busy raising money to put iodide in table salt around the world. I wish all problems were that easy to solve. The logic of Theory #1 is not so compelling if you are not iodine deficient. If you live in a developed country with iodized table salt at the grocery store, odds are very good that you have enough in your diet to prevent goiter and that particular cause of mental retardation in your children. The question is whether you need more iodine than that. Theory #2 (Gracia's) says that we need gobs more, many times more than diets in developed countries can provide, more than the thyroid is interested in processing, more than kelp gives you. Experimenting with Theory #2 can have two bad consequences. First, some people find iodine at even just double the normal recommended level to be toxic. This might be comparable to sulfite sensitivity, an iodine sensitivity. The professional consensus, though, is that this sensitivity is common enough to warrant telling everyone to back off, as if iodine were universally toxic. Obviously, Gracia is doing well taking plenty of iodine, so the commonly recognized problem cannot be universal. The second bad consequence is for your type of thyroiditis, caused by an autoimmune condition, commonly called Hashimoto's Thyroiditis. Again, the problems are not guaranteed to happen, but often, the extra iodine triggers or accelerates the autoimmune attack. Thus, if you have Hashimoto's and eat kelp, you are playing with fire. If your thyroid is already completely dead and gone, the kelp probably won't make much difference, none certainly according to Theory #1. It is insufficient, according to Theory #2. FWIW, I don't spend money on kelp or other sources of iodine. Selenium would be a better investment and lower risk. First and foremost, get your thyroid meds properly titrated. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 , You wrote: > > I am feeling very depressed about my autoimmune hypothyroidism. ... The feelings you are describing are symptoms. What are your actual TSH numbers and reference range? Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 I don't have my actual results yet, I will be asking for them from my doctor today, though. I know that ones TSH is supposed to be 0 or very close to it, but what are the ranges for the T3 and T4, I tried looking it up online with no success. Re: Re: Iodine , You wrote: > > I am feeling very depressed about my autoimmune hypothyroidism. ... The feelings you are describing are symptoms. What are your actual TSH numbers and reference range? Chuck ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 Chuck, what you are saying in this post makes a lot of sense. However, I would argue that there are a lot of personal factors a person must take into consideration when examining their own personal health issues. First, a lot of iodine in the average persons diet comes from drinking water. When someone drinks only bottled water that has been filtered and no longer has iodine, their iodine intake is decreased. Also, some people, such as myself may never use table salt with their food. I also don't use very many dressings, ketchup, syrup, etc. For someone like myself, Kelp is very beneficial. My argument is I believe everyone needs to take into consideration their own personal habits and make their own educated decisions. I have been doing a lot of reading online and at bookstores and kelp is highly debated. I really enjoy reading your posts Chuck, you are obviously very educated in the matter. Thanks, Re: Iodine , You wrote: > > > I am new to hypothyroidism. I was diagnosed with autoimmune > hypothyroidism a > couple of months ago. I don't quite understand the whole kelp, iodine thing > but I do know that I eat kelp every couple of days. Is that bad? For you, potentially bad. The thyroid takes in iodine (iodide) from food you eat and turns it into thyroid hormones, which you need to be healthy. So, one theory (#1) is that a little extra iodine (from kelp) will help a weak thyroid do its job. This logic clearly works if your diet is deficient in iodine. The leading cause of mental retardation worldwide is lack of iodine, marked by a high incidence of goiter in people living in areas with iodine depleted soils. However, the amount of iodide needed to correct this problem is tiny. It's the amount they put in table salt in developed countries. So, the U.N. is busy raising money to put iodide in table salt around the world. I wish all problems were that easy to solve. The logic of Theory #1 is not so compelling if you are not iodine deficient. If you live in a developed country with iodized table salt at the grocery store, odds are very good that you have enough in your diet to prevent goiter and that particular cause of mental retardation in your children. The question is whether you need more iodine than that. Theory #2 (Gracia's) says that we need gobs more, many times more than diets in developed countries can provide, more than the thyroid is interested in processing, more than kelp gives you. Experimenting with Theory #2 can have two bad consequences. First, some people find iodine at even just double the normal recommended level to be toxic. This might be comparable to sulfite sensitivity, an iodine sensitivity. The professional consensus, though, is that this sensitivity is common enough to warrant telling everyone to back off, as if iodine were universally toxic. Obviously, Gracia is doing well taking plenty of iodine, so the commonly recognized problem cannot be universal. The second bad consequence is for your type of thyroiditis, caused by an autoimmune condition, commonly called Hashimoto's Thyroiditis. Again, the problems are not guaranteed to happen, but often, the extra iodine triggers or accelerates the autoimmune attack. Thus, if you have Hashimoto's and eat kelp, you are playing with fire. If your thyroid is already completely dead and gone, the kelp probably won't make much difference, none certainly according to Theory #1. It is insufficient, according to Theory #2. FWIW, I don't spend money on kelp or other sources of iodine. Selenium would be a better investment and lower risk. First and foremost, get your thyroid meds properly titrated. Chuck ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 Chuck, I was considering selenium before you mentioned it. I am glad to see you did. How much is the right amount to take. I was considering 200mcg. Venizia- -- In hypothyroidism , Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote: > > , > > You wrote: > > > > > > I am new to hypothyroidism. I was diagnosed with autoimmune > > hypothyroidism a > > couple of months ago. I don't quite understand the whole kelp, iodine thing > > but I do know that I eat kelp every couple of days. Is that bad? > > For you, potentially bad. > > The thyroid takes in iodine (iodide) from food you eat and turns it into > thyroid hormones, which you need to be healthy. So, one theory (#1) is > that a little extra iodine (from kelp) will help a weak thyroid do its > job. This logic clearly works if your diet is deficient in iodine. The > leading cause of mental retardation worldwide is lack of iodine, marked > by a high incidence of goiter in people living in areas with iodine > depleted soils. However, the amount of iodide needed to correct this > problem is tiny. It's the amount they put in table salt in developed > countries. So, the U.N. is busy raising money to put iodide in table > salt around the world. I wish all problems were that easy to solve. > > The logic of Theory #1 is not so compelling if you are not iodine > deficient. If you live in a developed country with iodized table salt at > the grocery store, odds are very good that you have enough in your diet > to prevent goiter and that particular cause of mental retardation in > your children. The question is whether you need more iodine than that. > Theory #2 (Gracia's) says that we need gobs more, many times more than > diets in developed countries can provide, more than the thyroid is > interested in processing, more than kelp gives you. > > Experimenting with Theory #2 can have two bad consequences. First, some > people find iodine at even just double the normal recommended level to > be toxic. This might be comparable to sulfite sensitivity, an iodine > sensitivity. The professional consensus, though, is that this > sensitivity is common enough to warrant telling everyone to back off, as > if iodine were universally toxic. Obviously, Gracia is doing well taking > plenty of iodine, so the commonly recognized problem cannot be universal. > > The second bad consequence is for your type of thyroiditis, caused by an > autoimmune condition, commonly called Hashimoto's Thyroiditis. Again, > the problems are not guaranteed to happen, but often, the extra iodine > triggers or accelerates the autoimmune attack. Thus, if you have > Hashimoto's and eat kelp, you are playing with fire. If your thyroid is > already completely dead and gone, the kelp probably won't make much > difference, none certainly according to Theory #1. It is insufficient, > according to Theory #2. > > FWIW, I don't spend money on kelp or other sources of iodine. Selenium > would be a better investment and lower risk. First and foremost, get > your thyroid meds properly titrated. > > Chuck > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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